Cofnod y Trafodion
The Record of Proceedings

Y Llywydd: Galwaf y Cynulliad i drefn.

The Presiding Officer: I call the Assembly to order.

The Counsel General and Leader of the House (Carwyn Jones): I propose that

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn unol â Rheolau Sefydlog Rhifau 35.6 a 35.8:

the National Assembly for Wales in accordance with Standing Orders Nos. 35.6 and 35.8:

yn atal Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 7.18 (i) a’r rhan honno o Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.10 sy’n ei gwneud yn ofynnol bod y cyhoeddiad wythnosol o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.3 yn darparu’r amserlen ar gyfer busnes yn y cyfarfod llawn yr wythnos ganlynol, er mwyn caniatáu i’r cynnig o dan eitem 1 gael ei ystyried yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ddydd Mawrth 11 Tachwedd 2008. (NDM4054)

suspends Standing Order No. 7.18 (i) and that part of Standing Order No. 6.10 that requires the weekly announcement under Standing Order No. 6.3 to constitute the timetable for business in Plenary for the following week, to allow the motion under item 1 to be considered in Plenary on Tuesday 11 November 2008. (NDM4054)

Y Llywydd: Gan nad oes gwrthwynebiad, datganaf fod y cynnig wedi’i dderbyn yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 7.35.

The Presiding Officer: As there are no objections, I declare the motion carried in accordance with Standing Order No. 7.35.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.

The Counsel General and Leader of the House (Carwyn Jones): I propose that

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 10.3 yn ethol Nick Ramsay (Ceidwadwyr) yn aelod o’r Pwyllgor Cyllid yn lle Nick Bourne (Ceidwadwyr). (NDM4055)

the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order No. 10.3 elects Nick Ramsay (Conservative) as a member of the Finance Committee in place of Nick Bourne (Conservative). (NDM4055)

Y Llywydd: Gan nad oes gwrthwynebiad, datganaf fod y cynnig wedi’i dderbyn yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 7.35.

The Presiding Officer: As there are no objections, I declare the motion carried in accordance with Standing Order No. 7.35.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Welsh Language LCO

LCO y Gymraeg

Q1 Eleanor Burnham: Will the First Minister make a statement on the proposed Welsh language LCO? OAQ(3)1437(FM)

C1 Eleanor Burnham: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol arfaethedig ynghylch y Gymraeg? OAQ(3)1437(FM)

The First Minister (Rhodri Morgan): Before I start to answer questions, I would like to mention how much we admire the incredible achievement of Joe Calzaghe this weekend. He set the seal on a fantastic boxing career with his forty-sixth straight win.

Y Prif Weinidog (Rhodri Morgan): Cyn imi ddechrau ateb cwestiynau, hoffwn ddweud cymaint yr ydym yn edmygu llwyddiant anhygoel Joe Calzaghe y penwythnos hwn. Coronodd ei yrfa focsio wych drwy ennill ei chweched ornest a deugain yn olynol.   

To turn to the question, the LCO on the Welsh language will enable us to put Welsh and English on an equal footing, create the post of a language commissioner, and establish linguistic rights in the provision of services. Public services, such as the Wales Millennium Centre, will be covered, but local services, such as the local chip shop, will not.

A throi at y cwestiwn, bydd y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol ynghylch y Gymraeg yn ein galluogi i wneud y Gymraeg a’r Saesneg yn gyfartal, i greu swydd comisiynydd iaith, ac i sefydlu hawliau ieithyddol yng nghyswllt darparu gwasanaethau. Bydd gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, megis Canolfan Mileniwm Cymru, yn cael eu cynnwys, ond ni fydd gwasanaethau lleol, megis y siop sglodion leol, yn cael eu cynnwys.

Eleanor Burnham: When you set out the legislative programme last year, you said of this LCO, that:

Eleanor Burnham: Pan amlinellwyd y rhaglen ddeddfwriaethol gennych y llynedd, dyma a ddywedasoch yng nghyswllt y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol hwn:

'we will place that legislative competence Order in the autumn part of our programme to allow a minimum of three months for the discussions to hopefully come to fruition. Once that has happened, the relevant legislative competence Order will be laid before you.’

Eighteen months have passed, so what are the specific issues that are preventing the progress of this LCO?

Ddeunaw mis yn ddiweddarach, beth yw’r materion penodol sy’n rhwystro’r Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol hwn rhag mynd rhagddo?

The First Minister: It is very simple for us as politicians to understand the principle that the Wales Millennium Centre should be covered, and the local chip shop should be kept out. However, getting that simple principle drafted by parliamentary draftsmen and draftswomen and lawyers into an LCO, so that the WMC is included and the chip shop is not, is not very simple. It has taken us until very recently to get a suitable draft that makes the distinction clear.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae’n syml iawn i ni wleidyddion ddeall yr egwyddor y dylid cynnwys Canolfan Mileniwm Cymru, ac y dylid cadw’r siop sglodion leol allan. Fodd bynnag, nid yw sicrhau bod y drafftsmyn, y drafftsmonesau a’r cyfreithwyr seneddol yn drafftio’r egwyddor syml honno a’i throi’n Orchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol, er mwyn cynnwys y ganolfan a pheidio â chynnwys y siop sglodion, yn syml iawn. Mae wedi cymryd tan yn ddiweddar iawn inni gael drafft addas sy’n dangos y gwahaniaeth yn glir.

Alun Davies: Credaf y bydd pawb yn falch o allu symud y drafodaeth ymlaen ac i ffwrdd o drafod siop tsips Cas-gwent. Diben y ddeddfwriaeth yw cynyddu’r defnydd o’r Gymraeg yn ein cymunedau. A oes modd i chi roi sicrwydd i mi a’r Siambr, sut bynnag y bydd y Gorchymyn yn ymddangos ar bapur, mai ei brif bwrpas yw sicrhau cynnydd yn y defnydd o’r iaith Gymraeg?

Y Prif Weinidog: Gobeithiwn mai dyna fydd yr effaith. Gan y bydd gan bobl fwy o hawliau, gobeithiwn y byddant yn gwneud defnydd gweddus o’r hawliau ychwanegol hynny. Nid ydych yn gallu gorfodi pobl i ddefnyddio’r iaith Gymraeg, ond bydd hyn yn sefydlu’r egwyddor bod y ddwy iaith yn gyfartal o ran statws, ac felly, yn seicolegol, mae’n golygu y bydd pobl yn disgwyl gallu defnyddio’r Gymraeg, yn hytrach na meddwl mai’r Gymraeg yw iaith y cartref ac mai Saesneg yw iaith gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.

Paul Davies: Fel y dywedodd Eleanor Burnham, gwnaeth eich Llywodraeth addewid y byddai manylion y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol hwn yn cael eu cyflwyno yn ystod blwyddyn gyntaf Llywodraeth Cymru’n Un. Mae’n debyg bod y Gorchymyn wedi’i ohirio am resymau cyfreithiol. A all y Prif Weinidog ddweud wrthym pryd y bydd y Llywodraeth yn cyflwyno’r Gorchymyn, a sut y bydd y Llywodraeth yn defnyddio’r pwerau? Pa Fesurau mae’r Llywodraeth am eu cyflwyno wedyn er mwyn sicrhau bod y Gymraeg yn iaith fyw yn ein cymunedau?

Y Prif Weinidog: Dyna’r peth pwysig yn y pen draw, bod yr iaith yn iaith fyw, ond mae cysylltiad rhwng statws swyddogol yr iaith a’r ffaith ei bod yn iaith fyw. Nid ydynt yr un peth, ond mae rhywun yn cysylltu’r ddau beth yn seicolegol. Yn yr hen ddyddiau, cymerodd pobl yn ganiataol mai iaith y cartref oedd y Gymraeg, ac nad oedd yn weddus ei defnyddio y tu allan i’r cartref, y fferm neu’r siop. Mae gwneud y newid hwnnw yn hollbwysig i ddyfodol yr iaith.

The First Minister: That is the important thing at the end of the day—that the language is a living language—but there is a link between a living language and its statutory status. They are not one and the same, but one connects them psychologically. In the old days, people took it for granted that the Welsh language was the language of the home, and that it was not appropriate to use it outside the home, the farm or the shop. Making that switch is vital to the future of the Welsh language.

Yr ydym wedi gohirio’r broses er mwyn cael geiriad y Gorchymyn yn hollol glir ac yn hollol gywir er mwyn iddo lifo drwy’r broses graffu yma ac yn San Steffan. Yr ydym yn gobeithio y bydd Mesurau yn gallu dod ohono. Yr ydych yn gofyn pa fath o Fesurau a geir. Un Mesur fydd hwnnw i sefydlu comisiynydd dros yr iaith; byddai’r comisiynydd hefyd yn delio â chwestiynau o hawliau ieithyddol a’r egwyddor sylfaenol o gadw siop tsips y tu allan i faes y ddeddfwriaeth a sefydliadau cenedlaethol, fel Gardd Fotaneg Genedlaethol Cymru yn sir Gâr neu Ganolfan y Mileniwm, sydd drws nesaf i ni yma, y tu mewn i’r rhwyd.

We have delayed this to ensure that the wording of the Order is completely clear and correct, so that it can proceed smoothly through the scrutiny process here and in Westminster. We hope that Measures will flow from that. You ask what those Measures will be. One will be the establishment of a language commissioner, who would deal with the question of linguistic rights and the fundamental principle of keeping the chip shop outside the remit of the legislation and bringing national institutions, such as the National Botanic Garden of Wales in Carmarthenshire or the Millennium Centre, which is next door to us here, within its scope.

The Leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrat Group (Michael German): I note that many of the things that you were talking about related to Measures rather than LCOs. It has been 18 months since you announced the first six LCOs. Three of those are on the way to being passed, but three of them have been lost without trace—we have just been talking about the LCO on the Welsh language, we know about the affordable housing LCO, on which we are wrangling with Members of Parliament, and the LCO on environmental protection and waste management also seems to have been lost without trace. The problem seems to be at the other end of the M4. What is the problem?

Arweinydd Grŵp Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru (Michael German): Sylwaf fod llawer o’r pethau yr oeddech yn siarad amdanynt yn ymwneud â Mesurau yn hytrach na Gorchmynion cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol. Mae 18 mis wedi mynd heibio ers ichi gyhoeddi’r chwe Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol cyntaf. Mae tri o’r rheini yn y broses o gael eu pasio, ond mae tri ohonynt wedi diflannu’n llwyr—yr ydym newydd fod yn siarad am y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol ynghylch y Gymraeg, gwyddom am y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol ynghylch tai fforddiadwy yr ydym wrthi’n dadlau ag Aelodau Seneddol yn ei gylch, ac ymddengys fod y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol ynghylch amddiffyn yr amgylchedd a rheoli gwastraff wedi diflannu’n llwyr hefyd. Mae’r broblem, yn ôl pob golwg, yn y pen arall i’r M4. Beth yw’r broblem?

The First Minister: The problem is that you are using the expression 'lost without trace’ without having a foundation for using it. To say that an LCO has been delayed is to make a factual statement. Eleanor Burnham asked me about that, and I have explained why we wanted to get it absolutely correct: so that the right organisations and public services would come within the legislation and those that are not of a public service character would be outside the purview of the LCO.

Y Prif Weinidog: Y broblem yw eich bod yn defnyddio’r ymadrodd 'diflannu’n llwyr’ heb fod gennych sail dros ei ddefnyddio. Mae dweud bod oedi ynghylch Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol yn ddatganiad ffeithiol. Gofynnodd Eleanor Burnham imi am hynny, ac yr wyf wedi esbonio pam yr oeddem yn awyddus i sicrhau ei fod yn hollol gywir: er mwyn i’r sefydliadau a’r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus cywir gael eu cynnwys yn y ddeddfwriaeth ac er mwyn i’r rhai nad ydynt yn wasanaethau cyhoeddus fod y tu allan i gymalau’r Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol.

We must ensure that we have clarity on the other LCOs. We have to accept that there will be a bedding-down period with something that is new and innovative in our relationship with the Westminster Parliament. You will get the odd hiccup. We have always expected that; it is part of the bedding down of a new system. However, you are devaluing the English language by using the expression 'lost without trace’ about matters that are proceeding.  

Rhaid inni sicrhau bod eglurder ynghylch y Gorchmynion cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol eraill. Rhaid inni dderbyn y bydd cyfnod o ymsefydlu gyda rhywbeth sy’n newydd ac yn arloesol yn ein perthynas â Llywodraeth San Steffan. Cewch ambell broblem. Yr ydym wedi disgwyl hynny o’r cychwyn; mae’n rhan o’r hyn sy’n digwydd i system newydd wrth iddi ymsefydlu. Fodd bynnag, yr ydych yn dibrisio’r iaith pan ddefnyddiwch yr ymadrodd 'diflannu’n llwyr’ yng nghyswllt materion sydd yn mynd rhagddynt.

Michael German: We are talking about three out of six. To lose one LCO might be a problem but to lose three is careless. You have lost half of your programme in 18 months. A gestation period of 18 months is the same as that of an elephant—elephants and LCOs; they seem to go together.

Michael German: Yr ydym yn sôn am dri allan o chwech. Gallai colli un Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol fod yn broblem ond mae colli tri yn esgeulus. Yr ydych wedi colli hanner eich rhaglen mewn 18 mis. Mae 18 mis yr un hyd â chyfnod beichiogi eliffant—eliffantod a Gorchmynion cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol; mae’n ymddangos eu bod yn mynd law yn llaw.

The Minister at the Wales Office has signalled that the Welsh Affairs Committee wants to narrow the terms of your affordable housing LCO, and the Secretary of State appears to want to go along with that. With regard to that LCO, will the views of the Welsh Assembly Government or the views of Westminster MPs prevail?

Mae’r Gweinidog yn Swyddfa Cymru wedi dangos bod y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig yn awyddus i gyfyngu telerau eich Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol ynghylch tai fforddiadwy, ac ymddengys fod yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol am gyd-fynd â hynny. Yng nghyswllt y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol hwnnw, ai barn Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ynteu barn ASau San Steffan a fydd drechaf?

The First Minister: I now understand what you mean by 'lost without trace’; you are talking about anything that is the subject of negotiation between us and the Secretary of State. I cannot give a running commentary on those ongoing negotiations. What I can say is that we believe that the affordable housing LCO has reached a certain stage in the scrutiny process. It now sits with the Secretary of State so that he can make his views known, and there will be continued negotiation with us. That is not the same as its being 'lost without trace’; it is the subject of negotiation. You need to look at your use of language as well as your knowledge of Oscar Wilde.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr wyf yn deall yn awr yr hyn a olygwch pan ddywedwch 'diflannu’n llwyr’; yr ydych yn sôn am unrhyw beth sy’n destun trafodaethau rhyngom a’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol. Ni allaf roi sylwebaeth ar y pryd ar y trafodaethau hynny, sydd wrthi’n mynd rhagddynt. Yr hyn y gallaf ei ddweud yw ein bod yn credu bod y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol ynghylch tai fforddiadwy wedi cyrraedd cam penodol yn y broses graffu. Ar hyn o bryd, mae’r mater gerbron yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol er mwyn iddo fynegi ei farn, a bydd rhagor o drafod gyda ni. Nid yw hynny’n gyfystyr â 'diflannu’n llwyr’; testun trafodaethau ydyw. Mae angen ichi ystyried y ffordd yr ydych yn defnyddio iaith yn ogystal â’ch gwybodaeth am Oscar Wilde.

Michael German: I was talking about the pace at which these LCOs that you announced 18 months ago are proceeding. We have only had half a hit so far. We do not know about the other three, because they have not been introduced into the House of Commons yet. We are hearing reports that concerns are being expressed by your partners in Government about the slowness of these LCOs. Can you reassure us and tell us that everything between the Government partners is hunky-dory with regard to the pace of the LCOs being introduced? While you are there, perhaps you could tell us whether the referendum is going to happen before 2011.

Michael German: Sôn yr oeddwn am gyflymder datblygiad y Gorchmynion cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol hyn, a gyhoeddwyd gennych 18 mis yn ôl. Dim ond hanner llwyddiant yr ydym wedi’i gael hyd yn hyn. Ni wyddom am y tri arall, oherwydd nid ydynt wedi cael eu cyflwyno i Dŷ’r Cyffredin eto. Clywn adroddiadau bod eich partneriaid yn y Llywodraeth yn mynegi pryderon ynghylch arafwch y Gorchmynion cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol hyn. A allwch roi tawelwch meddwl inni a dweud wrthym fod popeth yn gampus yng nghyswllt cyflymder cyflwyno’r Gorchmynion cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol? Tra byddwch yn gwneud hynny, efallai y gallech ddweud wrthym a yw’r refferendwm yn mynd i ddigwydd cyn 2011 ai peidio.

The First Minister: I have already described what has happened with the LCO on the Welsh language. It has been unexpectedly complicated. It has been very complicated for the lawyers to make it simple for the public. We tell them that we want the chip shop out and the Wales Millennium Centre and the National Botanic Garden of Wales in, and we ask them to draft us something along those lines.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr wyf eisoes wedi disgrifio’r hyn sydd wedi digwydd yng nghyswllt y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol ynghylch y Gymraeg. Mae’r broses wedi bod yn annisgwyl o gymhleth. Mae gwaith y cyfreithwyr o’i wneud yn syml i’r cyhoedd wedi bod yn gymhleth iawn. Dywedwn wrthynt nad ydym am gynnwys y siop sglodion a’n bod am gynnwys Canolfan Mileniwm Cymru a Gardd Fotaneg Genedlaethol Cymru, a gofynnwn iddynt ddrafftio rhywbeth i’r perwyl hwnnw.

1.40 p.m.

It has taken a very long time to get the drafting right, but I still think it right to spend that extra year on the drafting, so that the public does not worry, wondering whether X, Y or Z will come under the Welsh language LCO. It is worth spending that extra time, and I believe that it will be money well spent. It is inevitable in this novel new system of having two legislatures work together that, from time to time, there will be the odd disagreement. Those hiccups are part of normal democratic discussion.

Mae sicrhau bod y drafftio’n gywir wedi cymryd amser maith, ond credaf o hyd ei bod yn iawn inni dreulio’r flwyddyn ychwanegol honno ar y drafftio, er mwyn sicrhau nad yw’r cyhoedd yn pryderu, ac yn pendroni a fydd A, B neu C yn cael eu cynnwys yn y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol ynghylch y Gymraeg. Mae’n werth treulio’r amser ychwanegol hwnnw, a chredaf y gwelir bod yr arian wedi’i wario’n ddoeth. Mae’n anochel, yn y system newydd hon lle y mae dwy ddeddfwrfa’n cydweithio, y bydd ambell anghytundeb o bryd i’w gilydd. Mae’r problemau bach hynny’n rhan o drafodaeth ddemocrataidd arferol.

Improving Lives

Gwella Bywydau

Q2 Andrew R.T. Davies: Will the First Minister make a statement on the Welsh Assembly Government’s plans to improve the lives of residents in South Wales Central over the next 12 months? OAQ(3)1425(FM)

C2 Andrew R.T. Davies: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am gynlluniau Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i wella bywydau trigolion Canol De Cymru dros y 12 mis nesaf? OAQ(3)1425(FM)

The First Minister: I commend to the Assembly, and to those outside, the ReACT programme, which takes redundant employees who have lost, or are in danger of losing, their jobs, assists them with re-training, and then pays an employer subsidy of £2,000 to make sure that they get back into work as quickly as possible. A total of 12,000 people throughout Wales will benefit from the scheme, and a fair proportion of those will be living in South Wales Central.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr wyf yn cymeradwyo i’r Cynulliad, ac i’r rhai sydd y tu allan, y rhaglen ReACT, sy’n cymryd gweithwyr sydd wedi colli eu swyddi, neu y mae perygl iddynt golli eu swyddi, yn eu cynorthwyo i ailhyfforddi, ac yna’n talu cymhorthdal gwerth £2,000 i gyflogwyr i wneud yn siŵr eu bod yn mynd yn ôl i fyd gwaith mor gyflym ag sy’n bosibl. Bydd cyfanswm o 12,000 o bobl ledled Cymru yn elwa o’r cynllun, a bydd cyfran helaeth o’r rheini yn byw yng Nghanol De Cymru.

Andrew R.T. Davies: One sector that has been hit hard in South Wales Central is the construction industry, and we need walk only a small distance from this building to see the evidence of that. Starting on the construction of the Government’s many infrastructure projects could radically improve the lives of many residents of South Wales Central, and the Deputy First Minister has referred to the stimulus that the Government is looking at for the local economy, as well as Wales’s economy. Having had two economic summits and, no doubt, an inordinate amount of meetings with colleagues in Government, are you now in a position to introduce that stimulus package, so that residents in South Wales Central might benefit from it, particularly those working in the construction industry?

Andrew R.T. Davies: Un sector yr effeithiwyd arno’n fawr yng Nghanol De Cymru yw’r diwydiant adeiladu, ac nid oes angen inni gerdded yn bell o’r adeilad hwn i weld tystiolaeth sy’n dangos hynny. Gallai dechrau adeiladu prosiectau seilwaith niferus y Llywodraeth wella bywydau llawer o drigolion Canol De Cymru yn syfrdanol, ac mae’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog wedi cyfeirio at yr ysgogiad y mae’r Llywodraeth yn ei ystyried ar gyfer yr economi leol, yn ogystal ag economi Cymru. Ar ôl cael dwy uwchgynhadledd economaidd ac, yn ddiamau, gormod o gyfarfodydd gyda chyd-Weinidogion yn y Llywodraeth, a ydych erbyn hyn yn gallu cyflwyno’r pecyn ysgogi hwnnw, fel y gallai trigolion Canol De Cymru elwa ohono, yn enwedig y rhai sy’n gweithio yn y diwydiant adeiladu?

The First Minister: We do not want to stop large infrastructure schemes, such as the Church Village bypass, which is right in the middle of the South Wales Central region, and on which £18 million is to be spent this financial year. Likewise, about £5.9 million will be spent before 1 April 2009 on doubling the frequency of rail services on the line between Pontypridd and Merthyr Tydfil. Additional jobs will emerge from transport infrastructure projects of that size. However, in 2009-10, the question is the extent to which we can bring forward bottom-drawer, small works schemes, given that probably the biggest amount of additional employment comes from re-profiling expenditure for such small works schemes as school refurbishments, council house or other registered social landlord-owned property refurbishments, and hospital refurbishments. Small schemes probably employ more people per £1 spent than larger schemes, so we will be looking to bring such schemes forward.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid ydym am atal cynlluniau seilwaith mawr, megis ffordd osgoi Pentre’r Eglwys, sydd yng nghanol rhanbarth Canol De Cymru, ac yn gynllun y caiff £18 miliwn ei wario arno yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon. Yn yr un modd, caiff tua £5.9 miliwn ei wario cyn 1 Ebrill 2009 ar ddyblu amlder gwasanaethau rheilffordd ar y rheilffordd rhwng Pontypridd a Merthyr Tudful. Crëir swyddi ychwanegol yn sgîl prosiectau seilwaith trafnidiaeth o’r maint hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, yn 2009-10, y cwestiwn yw i ba raddau y gallwn gyflwyno cynlluniau gwaith bach sydd ar raddfa lai, o ystyried bod y nifer fwyaf o swyddi ychwanegol, mae’n debyg, yn dod yn sgîl ailbroffilio gwariant ar gynlluniau gwaith bach megis adnewyddu ysgolion, tai cyngor neu adeiladau eraill sy’n eiddo i landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig, ac ysbytai. Mae’n debyg bod cynlluniau bach yn cyflogi mwy o bobl fesul pob £1 a werir na chynlluniau mawr, felly byddwn yn ceisio cyflwyno cynlluniau o’r fath.

Leanne Wood: One way to improve lives is by investing heavily in public transport, so that people have easier access to job opportunities and affordable travel. The Government in London has underfunded rail infrastructure, and the two-track and signalling upgrade projects on the Valley Lines have recently been cancelled. While I welcome the One Wales Government’s record on delivering investment in the railways, do you share my view that the rail regulator is a toothless watchdog when it comes to preventing rail cuts in Wales?

Leanne Wood: Un ffordd o wella bywydau yw drwy fuddsoddi llawer mewn trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, er mwyn i bobl gael mynediad mwy hwylus at gyfleoedd cyflogaeth a theithio fforddiadwy. Mae’r Llywodraeth yn Llundain wedi tangyllido seilwaith y rheilffyrdd, ac mae’r prosiectau dau drac ac uwchraddio signalau ar Reilffyrdd y Cymoedd wedi cael eu canslo’n ddiweddar. Er fy mod yn croesawu record Llywodraeth Cymru’n Un o ran buddsoddi yn y rheilffyrdd, a ydych yn cyd-fynd â mi fod y rheolydd rheilffyrdd yn gorff gwarchod gwan yng nghyswllt atal toriadau ar y rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru?

The First Minister: I am not sure whether that is a timely criticism, given that there is probably more investment in the rail infrastructure in Wales now than there has been in a century. About £400 million is being spent on the line between Port Talbot and Newport, with £200 million of that going on the Cardiff area resignalling project. We are working with Network Rail on that, while trying to ensure that the vast bulk of that money is spent by Network Rail, although sometimes we will put some of our own money in instead. The Cardiff Valleys Lines is, I think, the seventh largest commuter rail infrastructure network in the United Kingdom, and we want to ensure that it is viable and is modernised for the future, so that it remains one of the best in the United Kingdom.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid wyf yn siŵr a yw hynny’n feirniadaeth amserol, o ystyried bod mwy o fuddsoddi yn seilwaith y rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru yn awr nag a gafwyd ers canrif, mae’n debyg. Mae tua £400 miliwn yn cael ei wario ar y rheilffordd rhwng Port Talbot a Chasnewydd, ac mae £200 miliwn o hynny’n mynd at y prosiect ailosod signalau yn ardal Caerdydd. Yr ydym yn gweithio gyda Network Rail ynghylch hynny, ac yn ceisio sicrhau ar yr un pryd fod y rhan helaethaf o’r arian hwnnw’n cael ei wario gan Network Rail, er y byddwn yn rhoi rhywfaint o’n harian ein hunain yn ei le weithiau. Credaf mai Rheilffyrdd Cymoedd Caerdydd yw’r mwyaf ond chwech o’r rhwydweithiau seilwaith rheilffyrdd i gymudwyr yn y Deyrnas Unedig, ac mae arnom eisiau sicrhau ei fod yn hyfyw ac yn cael ei foderneiddio at y dyfodol, er mwyn iddo barhau’n un o’r rhai gorau yn y Deyrnas Unedig.

Jenny Randerson: First Minister, one way to improve the lives of residents in South Wales Central, certainly in my Cardiff Central constituency, would be to improve health services. For the past 10 years, the site of the Cardiff Royal Infirmary has been lying largely dormant and is in great need of redevelopment and repair. There are exciting plans to build an integrated health centre on the site, although we have probably reached the third version of those plans. We expected the Minister for Health and Social Services to sign them off in the very near future; in fact, we hoped that she would sign them off last September. However, there is still no news, and, in the meantime, people are extremely concerned to see this valuable health asset lying fallow when it should be integrated with the lives of people in the city centre and the south of the city, namely those in greatest need of good health and improved health.

Jenny Randerson: Brif Weinidog, un ffordd o wella bywydau trigolion Canol De Cymru, yn sicr yn fy etholaeth, sef Canol Caerdydd, fyddai gwella gwasanaethau iechyd. Yn ystod y 10 mlynedd diwethaf, mae safle Ysbyty Brenhinol Caerdydd wedi bod yn segur gan mwyaf, ac mae taer angen ailddatblygu ac atgyweirio arno. Ceir cynlluniau cyffrous i adeiladu canolfan iechyd integredig ar y safle, er ein bod wedi cyrraedd trydedd fersiwn y cynlluniau hynny mae’n debyg. Yr oeddem yn disgwyl y byddai’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn eu cymeradwyo yn y dyfodol agos iawn; mewn gwirionedd, yr oeddem yn gobeithio y byddai’n eu cymeradwyo fis Medi diwethaf. Fodd bynnag, nid oes dim newyddion o hyd, ac yn y cyfamser, mae pobl yn bryderus iawn o weld nad yw’r ased iechyd gwerthfawr hwn yn cael ei ddatblygu pan ddylid ei integreiddio gyda bywydau pobl yng nghanol y ddinas ac yn ne’r ddinas, sef y rhai sydd â’r angen mwyaf am iechyd da ac iechyd gwell.

The First Minister: That was another example of the Liberal Democrats devaluing the English language. Your party leader talked of LCOs being 'lost without trace’, and his absence from the Chamber means that he himself is now lost without a trace. You say that the hospital is lying dormant, but it is among the 20 busiest hospitals in Wales, with about 100,000 out-patient attendances every year. I know of the scheme to which you refer, but, when a hospital has 100,000 out-patient attendances every year, I do not think that you can describe it as being 'dormant’. To build on the already very busy Cardiff Royal Infirmary complex, given the range of important facilities that it provides, and ensuring that further complementary services are provided there will be difficult. Simply because it is no longer a major accident-and-emergency or in-patient hospital does not mean that it is not an exceedingly busy hospital.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr oedd hynny’n enghraifft arall o’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn dibrisio’r iaith Saesneg. Soniodd arweinydd eich plaid am Orchmynion cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol 'yn diflannu’n llwyr’ ac mae ei absenoldeb ef o’r Siambr yn golygu ei fod yntau bellach wedi diflannu’n llwyr. Dywedwch fod yr ysbyty’n segur, ond mae ymysg 20 ysbyty prysuraf Cymru, gyda thua 100,000 o gleifion allanol yn ei ddefnyddio bob blwyddyn. Gwn am y cynllun y cyfeiriwch ato, ond pan fydd 100,000 o gleifion allanol yn defnyddio ysbyty bob blwyddyn, ni chredaf y gallwch ddweud ei fod yn 'segur’. Bydd adeiladu ar safle Ysbyty Brenhinol Caerdydd, sydd eisoes yn brysur iawn, o ystyried yr amrywiaeth o gyfleusterau pwysig a ddarperir yno, a sicrhau y darperir mwy o wasanaethau ategol yno, yn anodd. Am nad yw bellach yn un o’r prif ysbytai damweiniau ac achosion brys, nac yn ysbyty cleifion mewnol, nid yw hynny’n golygu nad yw’n ysbyty prysur dros ben.

The Leader of the Opposition (Nick Bourne): People throughout Wales will be concerned about the fact that we are in a serious recession, which I know the First Minister now accepts. In light of that and the Assembly’s draft budget, I wonder what the Assembly Government will do about two specific issues. The first of those is house repossessions, which have been running at a record high for the past 15 years. In the first six months of this year, 8,800 homes in Wales were repossessed, and it is clear that that figure will rise in the second six months. What will the Assembly Government do to provide financial assistance to people in that situation and, importantly, to provide advice and access to help, particularly in view of the recommendations made by the Westminster Government on restructuring Citizens Advice’s services? I have serious concerns about those recommendations, which are being looked at askance in some parts of Wales.

Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid (Nick Bourne): Bydd pobl ledled Cymru’n pryderu am y ffaith ein bod mewn dirwasgiad difrifol, a gwn fod y Prif Weinidog bellach yn derbyn y ffaith honno. O ystyried hynny a chyllideb ddrafft y Cynulliad, tybed beth a wnaiff Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ynghylch dau fater penodol. Y cyntaf o’r rheini yw adfeddiannu tai, ac mae mwy nag erioed o hynny wedi bod yn digwydd yn ystod y 15 mlynedd diwethaf. Yn y chwe mis cyntaf eleni, adfeddiannwyd 8,800 o dai yng Nghymru, ac mae’n amlwg y bydd y ffigur hwnnw’n codi yn yr ail chwe mis. Beth a wnaiff Llywodraeth y Cynulliad i ddarparu cymorth ariannol i bobl yn y sefyllfa honno ac, yn bwysig iawn, i ddarparu cyngor a mynediad at gymorth, yn enwedig yng ngoleuni’r argymhellion a wnaethpwyd gan Lywodraeth San Steffan ynghylch ailstrwythuro gwasanaethau Cyngor ar Bopeth? Yr wyf yn pryderu’n ddifrifol am yr argymhellion hynny, sy’n cael eu drwgdybio mewn rhai rhannau o Gymru.

The second issue is that of fuel poverty, the figures for which doubled in Wales between 2004 and 2007. Current figures show that 270,000 households in Wales—or 22 per cent—are in fuel poverty. Given the dire position that those households face this winter, which the First Minister has, I think, previously recognised, what is the Government doing to ensure that they get help? I also note that there are severe regional disparities, and that the position appears to be far worse in north Wales.

Yr ail fater yw tlodi tanwydd, ac mae ffigurau tlodi tanwydd wedi dyblu yng Nghymru rhwng 2004 a 2007. Mae’r ffigurau cyfredol yn dangos bod 270,000 o gartrefi Cymru—neu 22 y cant—mewn tlodi tanwydd. O ystyried y sefyllfa arswydus y mae’r cartrefi hyn yn ei hwynebu y gaeaf hwn, a chredaf fod y Prif Weinidog wedi cydnabod y sefyllfa honno, beth y mae’r Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i sicrhau eu bod yn cael cymorth? Yr wyf yn sylwi hefyd fod gwahaniaethau rhanbarthol difrifol, a’i bod yn ymddangos bod y sefyllfa’n waeth o lawer yn y gogledd.

The First Minister: Clearly, it will be a very tough winter and spring. We do not have the data yet, but it would be a miracle if the United Kingdom or Wales were to escape a recession. As regards the consequences for what we can do by way of addressing particular vulnerabilities, whether they be fuel poverty or people losing their houses through repossessions, it is important that people take note of the prompt actions taken by this administration in providing additional sums of money to help to avert repossessions—and you will have the details to hand. As for changing court procedures to try to get courts to abide by a different code on court orders, I know that some legal verdicts recently have caused upset, but I do not feel able to comment on those, although they may make the situation more problematic. We must digest that situation, as it arose only on the weekend.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yn amlwg, bydd y gaeaf a’r gwanwyn yn galed iawn. Nid yw’r data gennym eto, ond byddai’n wyrth petai’r Deyrnas Unedig neu Gymru’n osgoi dirwasgiad. O ran y canlyniadau ar gyfer yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud i fynd i’r afael â gwendidau penodol, boed hynny’n dlodi tanwydd neu bobl yn colli eu tai drwy adfeddiannu, mae’n bwysig i bobl sylwi ar y camau a gymerwyd yn ddiymdroi gan y weinyddiaeth hon i ddarparu arian ychwanegol i helpu i osgoi adfeddiannu—a bydd y manylion wrth law gennych. O ran newid gweithdrefnau’r llys i geisio newid y cod a ddilynir gan y llysoedd ynghylch gorchmynion llys, gwn fod rhai dyfarniadau cyfreithiol wedi peri gofid yn ddiweddar, ond ni theimlaf y gallaf roi sylwadau am y rheini, er y gallant wneud y sefyllfa’n fwy dyrys. Rhaid inni ystyried y sefyllfa honno, gan ei bod newydd ddigwydd dros y penwythnos.

Finally, on fuel poverty, prospects for the price of fuel over the next six or nine months look better, although that will not help this winter. People use phrases such as, 'You cannot buck the market’, and it is difficult to avoid the fact that oil and gas prices are extremely high at the moment because of the price of crude oil three months ago. Even though crude oil prices have dived to half the previous peak level, that will not bring the price of fuel down now. What it does, however, is enable people who are in fuel poverty and who may have a psychological fear of turning on the heating, thereby possibly imperilling their health, to know that at least there is a good prospect of fuel prices coming down. Therefore, they can be a bit more confident about using fuel without building up problems for themselves next year, because, by then, it is likely that the price of gas and electricity will have come down.

Yn olaf, o ran tlodi tanwydd, mae’r rhagolygon o ran pris tanwydd dros y chwech neu naw mis nesaf yn edrych yn well, er na fydd hynny’n ein helpu y gaeaf hwn. Bydd pobl yn defnyddio brawddegau megis, 'Ni allwch wrthsefyll y farchnad’, ac mae’n anodd osgoi’r ffaith bod prisiau olew a nwy’n uchel dros ben ar hyn o bryd oherwydd pris olew crai dri mis yn ôl. Er bod prisiau olew crai wedi syrthio i hanner y lefel uchaf flaenorol, ni fydd hynny’n lleihau pris tanwydd yn awr. Fodd bynnag, bydd yn galluogi pobl sydd mewn tlodi tanwydd ac y mae arnynt ofn seicolegol efallai ynghylch cynnau’r gwres, gan beryglu eu hiechyd o bosibl, i wybod ei bod yn eithaf tebygol o leiaf y bydd prisiau tanwydd yn gostwng. Felly, gallant fod ychydig yn fwy hyderus ynghylch defnyddio tanwydd heb gronni problemau iddynt eu hunain y flwyddyn nesaf, oherwydd y mae’n debygol, erbyn hynny, y bydd pris nwy a thrydan wedi gostwng.

1.50 p.m.

Nick Bourne: I have deliberately concentrated on areas in which we have competence: housing and fuel poverty. On housing issues, it is not only a problem with the courts, because, by the time the problem gets there, it is often too late; it is a problem with the banks. Presumably, the Government at Westminster now has some say in how the banks behave, which, often, use repossession as a weapon of first resort rather than of last resort. However, the question that I put to you, First Minister, was about the advice provided by citizens’ advice bureaux, given that, as you will know, there is now a proposal that that service go out to tender. The experience in England is not good, whether you look at city centres such as those in Hull and Leicester or rural areas such as Cornwall. What representations are we making on the provision of advice? These proposals would weaken the current system of giving advice but we need to bolster it.

Nick Bourne: Yr wyf wedi canolbwyntio’n fwriadol ar feysydd lle y mae gennym gymhwysedd: tai a thlodi tanwydd. O ran materion tai, nid problem gyda’r llysoedd yn unig ydyw, oherwydd erbyn i’r broblem gyrraedd y llysoedd, mae’n aml yn rhy hwyr; problem gyda’r banciau ydyw. Cymeraf fod Llywodraeth San Steffan bellach yn cael rhywfaint o ddylanwad dros ymddygiad y banciau, sy’n aml yn defnyddio adfeddiannu fel y dewis cyntaf yn hytrach na’r dewis olaf. Fodd bynnag, yr oedd y cwestiwn a ofynnais ichi, Brif Weinidog, yn ymwneud â’r cyngor a ddarperir gan ganolfannau cyngor ar bopeth, o gofio, fel y gwyddoch, fod cynnig erbyn hyn y dylid tendro am y gwasanaeth hwnnw. Nid yw’r profiad yn Lloegr yn dda, ni waeth a ydych yn edrych ar ganol dinasoedd megis Hull a Chaerlŷr neu ar ardaloedd gwledig megis Cernyw. Pa sylwadau yr ydym yn eu cyflwyno ynghylch darparu cyngor? Byddai’r cynigion hyn yn gwanhau’r system bresennol o roi cyngor, ond mae angen inni ei chryfhau.

On fuel poverty, you did not do much other than re-state the problem. I know what the problem is. To tell people, 'Hang on, there will be calmer weather next year’, will not particularly help this winter. We need something a bit more constructive to help this winter. The Sustainability Committee recommended smart meters for all homes. What are you doing on that? What are you doing at the regional level? As I said, it looks worse in north Wales than it does in south Wales. What are you doing about seeing that we get financial help to hard-pressed households this winter? They face problems this winter, and telling them to wait until next year is not terribly helpful.

O ran tlodi tanwydd, ni wnaethoch lawer mwy nag ailddatgan y broblem. Gwn beth yw’r broblem. Ni fydd dweud wrth bobl, 'Daliwch ati, bydd pethau’n well y flwyddyn nesaf’, o gymorth mawr y gaeaf hwn. Mae arnom angen rhywbeth mwy adeiladol i helpu y gaeaf hwn. Argymhellodd y Pwyllgor Cynaliadwyedd fesuryddion deallus i bob cartref. Beth yr ydych yn ei wneud o ran hynny? Beth yr ydych yn ei wneud ar y lefel ranbarthol? Fel y dywedais, mae’n edrych yn waeth yn y gogledd nac yn y de. Beth yr ydych yn ei wneud o ran sicrhau ein bod yn cael cymorth ariannol i gartrefi y mae’n ddyrys arnynt y gaeaf hwn? Maent yn wynebu problemau y gaeaf hwn, ac nid yw dweud wrthynt am aros tan y flwyddyn nesaf yn fawr o gymorth.

The First Minister: I am not absolutely clear what you mean by pointing to devolved functions but then issuing a list of non-devolved functions immediately afterwards. You did not refer to much in the way of devolved functions. In the pre-budget report, there is a great deal of speculation about winter fuel payments, and so on, but that is clearly a non-devolved function. I was not re-stating the problem with fuel poverty, merely saying that neither you nor I—and neither Gordon Brown nor David Cameron—can wish away the spike in oil prices that dragged up gas and electricity prices three or four months ago, and which has set the level of gas and electricity prices that people are paying currently. People with disabilities, for example, may not put the heating on because they have a tremendous fear that the high heating bills will mean that they fall into debt that they can never get out of. That fear is related to the thought that fuel prices will remain at the level that they reached this autumn and winter. The bills have been set this autumn and winter on the basis of very high raw fuel prices in the late summer and early autumn. Those prices have now plunged, but that will not be reflected until next year. However, at least it means that people have the prospect of lower electricity and gas prices by the time the next bills come in. Therefore, they need have less fear of turning the electricity on.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid wyf yn gwbl siŵr pam yr ydych yn cyfeirio at swyddogaethau datganoledig, ond yna’n rhoi rhestr o swyddogaethau nad ydynt wedi’u datganoli’n syth ar ôl hynny. Ni wnaethoch gyfeirio at lawer o ran swyddogaethau datganoledig. Yn yr adroddiad rhag-gyllidebol, ceir llawer o ddyfalu ynghylch taliadau tanwydd gaeaf, ac yn y blaen, ond mae hynny’n amlwg yn swyddogaeth nad yw wedi’i datganoli. Nid ailddatgan y broblem gyda thlodi tanwydd yr oeddwn, ond dweud na allwch chi na mi—na Gordon Brown na David Cameron ychwaith—gael gwared â’r cynnydd sydyn ym mhrisiau olew a barodd i brisiau nwy a thrydan godi dri neu bedwar mis yn ôl, ac sydd wedi pennu lefel prisiau nwy a thrydan y mae pobl yn eu talu ar hyn o bryd. Er enghraifft, efallai na fydd pobl sydd ag anableddau’n cynnau’r gwres am fod arnynt ofn mawr y bydd y biliau gwres uchel yn golygu eu bod yn mynd i ddyled ac na allant byth gael ymadael â’r ddyled honno. Mae’r ofn hwnnw’n gysylltiedig â’r syniad y bydd prisiau tanwydd yn aros ar y lefel y maent wedi’i chyrraedd yr hydref a’r gaeaf hwn. Mae’r biliau wedi’u pennu yr hydref a’r gaeaf hwn ar sail prisiau tanwydd crai uchel iawn ddiwedd yr haf a dechrau’r hydref. Mae’r prisiau hynny bellach wedi gostwng, ond ni chaiff hynny ei adlewyrchu tan y flwyddyn nesaf. Fodd bynnag, o leiaf mae’n golygu y gall pobl ddisgwyl cael prisiau trydan a nwy is erbyn i’r biliau nesaf gyrraedd. Felly, nid oes angen iddynt fod â chymaint o ofn cynnau’r trydan.

Nick Bourne: It sounds like jam tomorrow to me, as I have just pointed out. There is a way of dealing with this in a devolved fashion: the home energy efficiency scheme could be better targeted at those who really need help; there is the possibility of issuing smart meters, as I have pointed out; and there is the provision of advice. Therefore, I come back to the questions, which you have the power to answer. What are you doing about improving the provision of advice on debt and on heating? What are you doing about smart meters? What are you doing about the home energy efficiency scheme, which can be used to target help?

Nick Bourne: Mae’n swnio fel jam yfory i mi, fel yr wyf newydd ddweud. Mae modd delio â hyn mewn modd datganoledig: gellid targedu’r cynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref yn well at y rhai y mae gwir angen cymorth arnynt; gellid cyflwyno mesuryddion deallus, fel y dywedais; ac mae cyngor yn cael ei ddarparu. Felly, dychwelaf at y cwestiynau, y mae’r grym gennych i’w hateb. Beth yr ydych yn ei wneud ynghylch gwella darparu cyngor ynglŷn â dyled ac ynglŷn â gwresogi? Beth yr ydych yn ei wneud ynghylch mesuryddion deallus? Beth yr ydych yn ei wneud ynghylch y cynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref, y gellir ei ddefnyddio i dargedu cymorth?

The First Minister: You are quite right to say that the home energy efficiency scheme could be better targeted. However, it is not specifically a fuel poverty related scheme. Many people think that it is, but, sadly, one way or another, mission drift has led it to an area where its prime objective is energy efficiency rather than dealing with fuel poverty. Therefore, it is not targeted and means-tested in quite the way that it should be. That is why we are currently reviewing it. We will come back to you with more information about that when the review is completed, over the next month or so.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydych yn hollol gywir pan ddywedwch y gellid targedu’r cynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref yn well. Fodd bynnag, nid cynllun sy’n ymwneud yn benodol â thlodi tanwydd ydyw. Mae llawer o bobl yn credu mai dyna ydyw, ond yn anffodus, rywsut neu’i gilydd, drwy symud oddi wrth ei wir ddiben mae wedi mynd i faes lle y mae defnyddio ynni’n effeithlon yn brif amcan iddo yn hytrach na delio â thlodi tanwydd. Felly, nid yw wedi’i dargedu nac ar sail prawf modd fel y dylai fod. Dyna pam yr ydym yn ei adolygu ar hyn o bryd. Deuwn yn ôl atoch gyda mwy o wybodaeth am hynny pan fydd yr adolygiad wedi’i gwblhau, yn ystod y mis nesaf.

On the question of advice, a huge amount of change is under way, but, again, it is not a devolved matter. Citizens’ advice bureaux and legal advice, which are the services going out to tender, are not devolved, and the work of Citizens Advice, in the main, is related to non-devolved functions. There is the issue of community legal advice networks and the different forms of tendering. That is an ongoing process and it imperils a great deal of the community advice that people would use if they were threatened with the repossession of their homes. It is a sad fact of life that the Ministry of Justice has decided to go down that route, and it is a major threat to the network of local advice centres, including citizens’ advice bureaux, which can be extremely useful to families when they get into difficulties.

O ran cyngor, mae llawer o newid yn digwydd, ond eto, nid yw’n fater datganoledig. Nid yw canolfannau cyngor ar bopeth a chyngor cyfreithiol, sef y gwasanaethau y mae tendro ar eu cyfer, wedi’u datganoli, ac mae gwaith Cyngor ar Bopeth, gan mwyaf, yn ymwneud â swyddogaethau nad ydynt wedi’u datganoli. Ceir rhwydweithiau cyngor cyfreithiol cymunedol a’r gwahanol fathau o dendro. Mae honno’n broses sydd ar y gweill ac mae’n peryglu llawer o’r cyngor cymunedol y byddai pobl yn ei ddefnyddio petaent yn wynebu’r bygythiad bod eu cartrefi am gael eu hadfeddiannu. Gwaetha’r modd, mae’r Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder wedi penderfynu dilyn y trywydd hwnnw, ac mae’n fygythiad mawr i’r rhwydwaith o ganolfannau cyngor lleol, gan gynnwys canolfannau cyngor ar bopeth, a all fod yn ddefnyddiol dros ben i deuluoedd pan fyddant yn wynebu anawsterau.

Domestic Violence

Q3 Nerys Evans: Will the First Minister make a statement regarding the Welsh Assembly Government’s strategy to tackle the issue of domestic violence in Wales? OAQ(3)1427(FM)

The First Minister: We continue to address domestic abuse and its dreadful twin, sexual violence, through a variety of services and initiatives. I commend to the Assembly the setting up of the new sexual assault referral centres, including the one in the Cardiff Royal Infirmary, referred to earlier, which has quartered the amount of time that it takes to deal with an allegation, from 12 hours to three hours, thereby greatly improving the chances of making an arrest.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydym yn parhau i fynd i’r afael â thrais domestig a’i efell ofnadwy, trais rhywiol, drwy amrywiaeth o wasanaethau a mentrau. Yr wyf yn cymeradwyo i’r Cynulliad sefydlu’r canolfannau atgyfeirio ymosodiadau rhywiol newydd, gan gynnwys yr un yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Caerdydd, y cyfeiriwyd ato eisoes, sydd wedi chwarteru’r amser y mae’n ei gymryd i ddelio â honiad, o 12 awr i dair awr, gan wella’r siawns o arestio’n fawr.

Nerys Evans: I draw to your attention the confidential survey conducted of all 60 Assembly Members a few months ago, which discovered that three Assembly Members had been raped and one had suffered from domestic violence. All respondents knew of people who had suffered domestic or sexual assault. We know that these statistics follow national trends, and I suspect that there are more personal experiences of that kind within the Assembly than the questionnaire discovered.

Nerys Evans: Tynnaf eich sylw at yr arolwg cyfrinachol a gynhaliwyd o bob un o 60 Aelod y Cynulliad rai misoedd yn ôl, a ganfu fod tri o Aelodau’r Cynulliad wedi’u treisio’n rhywiol ac un wedi dioddef trais domestig. Yr oedd yr atebwyr i gyd yn gwybod am bobl a oedd wedi dioddef ymosodiad domestig neu ymosodiad rhywiol. Gwyddom fod yr ystadegau hyn yn dilyn tueddiadau cenedlaethol, ac yr wyf yn tybio bod mwy o brofiadau personol o’r math hwnnw o fewn y Cynulliad nag a ganfuwyd gan yr holiadur.

We know that incidents of domestic abuse increase during the Christmas period and I have been calling on the Assembly Government to fund an awareness-raising campaign to challenge attitudes during the coming Christmas period. In answer to questions during the Communities and Culture Committee last week, the Minister said that the Government will be funding such a campaign. Are you in a position today to give us more information about this, and would you be able to launch such a campaign on 25 November, the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women? We await the details of the campaign, but it is significant and, hopefully, something that we could all be proud of in Wales.

Gwyddom fod digwyddiadau cam-drin domestig yn cynyddu yn ystod cyfnod y Nadolig ac yr wyf wedi bod yn galw ar Lywodraeth y Cynulliad i ariannu ymgyrch codi ymwybyddiaeth i herio agweddau y Nadolig hwn. Wrth ateb cwestiynau yn ystod y Pwyllgor Cymunedau a Diwylliant yr wythnos diwethaf, dywedodd y Gweinidog y bydd y Llywodraeth yn ariannu ymgyrch o’r fath. A ydych heddiw’n gallu rhoi mwy o wybodaeth inni am hyn, ac a allech lansio ymgyrch o’r fath ar 25 Tachwedd, sef Diwrnod Rhyngwladol Dileu Trais yn erbyn Menywod? Yr ydym yn aros am fanylion yr ymgyrch, ond mae’n arwyddocaol a, gobeithio, yn rhywbeth y gallem oll fod yn falch ohono yng Nghymru.

The First Minister: I welcome the agreement between you, one of those most heavily involved in this campaign, and Dr Brian Gibbons, Minister for Social Justice and Local Government. I understand that the publicity campaign will be launched on that day, in a fortnight’s time, which will centre on a series of visits by Brian Gibbons to the Cardiff women’s safety unit on 9 September and to the north Wales women’s centre in Rhyl on 17 December.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr wyf yn croesawu’r cytundeb rhyngoch chi, sy’n ymwneud llawer â’r ymgyrch hon, a Dr Brian Gibbons, y Gweinidog dros Gyfiawnder Cymdeithasol a Llywodraeth Leol. Yr wyf yn cael ar ddeall y caiff yr ymgyrch gyhoeddusrwydd ei lansio y diwrnod hwnnw, ymhen pythefnos, a bydd yn canolbwyntio ar gyfres o ymweliadau gan Brian Gibbons ag uned diogelwch menywod Caerdydd ar 9 Medi ac â chanolfan menywod y gogledd yn y Rhyl ar 17 Rhagfyr.

Mark Isherwood: In evidence to the domestic abuse inquiry currently being undertaken by the Communities and Culture Committee, Flintshire County Council’s domestic abuse panel told us of the shortage of sustainable funding for staff posts, saying that intermittent grants are not enough for the specialist roles involved. The same county’s domestic abuse safety unit stated that there is no core funding and that funding applications are designed to fail, the result being that they cannot plan or develop and cannot fill identified gaps in the service. When I visited Aberconwy Women’s Aid, I was told that the refuge has had to lose 50 staff hours and the information centre in the town hall because of no increase in funding, while costs such as rent increased. During a visit to the north Wales rape and sexual abuse support centre, I was told that there is a large gap in the funds required to continue its services, and, while it welcomes any funding, those streams that last a year keep 'an organisation in crisis’. Further, the north Wales sexual abuse referral centre is due to open later this month, and the north Wales rape and sexual abuse support centre is a lead partner in the development of that. However, without funding, it will not be able to provide the support for the SARC that it had hoped to. First Minister, how do you intend to respond to the immediate problem with the funding for the sexual abuse referral centre and the longer-term sustainability of funding for these vital groups?

Mark Isherwood: Mewn tystiolaeth i’r ymchwiliad cam-drin domestig sy’n cael ei gynnal ar hyn o bryd gan y Pwyllgor Cymunedau a Diwylliant, dywedodd panel cam-drin domestig Cyngor Sir y Fflint wrthym am y prinder cyllid cynaliadwy ar gyfer swyddi’r staff, gan ddweud nad yw grantiau ysbeidiol yn ddigon ar gyfer y rolau arbenigol dan sylw. Dywedodd uned diogelwch cam-drin domestig yr un sir nad oes dim cyllid craidd a bod ceisiadau am gyllid yn sicr o fethu, ac o ganlyniad na allant gynllunio na datblygu, ac na allant lenwi bylchau a ganfyddir yn y gwasanaeth. Pan ymwelais â Chymorth i Fenywod Aberconwy, dywedwyd wrthyf fod y lloches wedi gorfod colli 50 o oriau staff a’r ganolfan wybodaeth yn neuadd y dref oherwydd nad oes cynnydd yn y cyllid, er bod costau megis rhent wedi cynyddu. Yn ystod ymweliad â chanolfan gymorth trais rhywiol a cham-drin rhywiol y gogledd, dywedwyd wrthyf fod bwlch mawr yn bodoli yn y cyllid y mae ei angen i barhau â’i wasanaethau, ac er y bydd yn croesawu unrhyw gyllid, fod y ffrydiau hynny sy’n para blwyddyn yn cadw 'sefydliad sydd mewn argyfwng’. Hefyd, bydd canolfan atgyfeirio cam-drin rhywiol y gogledd yn agor yn ddiweddarach y mis hwn, ac mae canolfan gymorth trais rhywiol a cham-drin rhywiol y gogledd yn bartner allweddol o ran ei datblygu. Fodd bynnag, heb gyllid, ni fydd yn gallu darparu’r gefnogaeth yr oedd wedi gobeithio’i darparu i’r ganolfan atgyfeirio cam-drin rhywiol. Brif Weinidog, sut yr ydych yn bwriadu ymateb i’r broblem bresennol gyda’r cyllid i’r ganolfan atgyfeirio cam-drin rhywiol a chynaliadwyedd cyllid i’r grwpiau hanfodol hyn yn y tymor hwy?

The First Minister: Many projects in this area are being funded, but that does not mean that every single project is, and some may not be funded in quite the same way as the non-governmental or voluntary sector organisations want them to be. That is inevitable. The sexual abuse referral centre project is co-funded by the Home Office plus the Assembly. The SARC in the Cardiff Royal Infirmary has already demonstrated its model way of getting all services—doctors, nurses, therapists, voluntary sector advisers, psychologists and the police—together on one site, so that matters of this nature, which are of the most incredible sensitivity, can be dealt with quickly to maximise the chances of arrest as well as of the recovery of the victim. That is important.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae llawer o brosiectau yn y maes hwn yn cael eu hariannu, ond nid yw hynny’n golygu bod pob un prosiect yn cael ei ariannu, ac efallai na fydd rhai ohonynt yn cael eu hariannu yn yr un modd ag y byddai’r cyrff anllywodraethol neu’r mudiadau sector gwirfoddol yn dymuno. Mae hynny’n anochel. Mae prosiect y ganolfan atgyfeirio cam-drin rhywiol yn cael ei ariannu ar y cyd gan y Swyddfa Gartref a’r Cynulliad. Mae’r ganolfan atgyfeirio cam-drin rhywiol yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Caerdydd eisoes wedi dangos sut i gael pob gwasanaeth—meddygon, nyrsys, therapyddion, ymgynghorwyr y sector gwirfoddol, seicolegwyr a’r heddlu—gyda’i gilydd ar un safle, er mwyn gallu delio â’r materion o’r fath, sy’n eithriadol o sensitif, yn gyflym i gael y cyfle gorau posibl o arestio yn ogystal â’r cyfle gorau posibl i’r dioddefwr wella, ac mae dull y ganolfan honno’n batrwm i eraill. Mae hynny’n bwysig.

Therefore, now that we have a clear vision, the money that has been put into that centre can act as a pathfinder. The centre has been working extremely well since I co-launched it a few months ago with Vernon Coaker, the relevant Home Office Minister. Therefore, that model of best practice can be transferred quickly elsewhere, and Colwyn Bay is due to get its sexual assault referral centre opened during this financial year. However, you cannot have everything funded in the way that everyone wants straight away. What we are doing is funding a large amount of new activity in this area.

Felly, gan fod gennym bellach weledigaeth glir, gall yr arian a roddwyd i’r ganolfan honno weithredu fel cynllun braenaru. Mae’r ganolfan wedi bod yn gweithio’n dda iawn ers imi ei lansio rai misoedd yn ôl ar y cyd â Vernon Coaker, y Gweinidog perthnasol o’r Swyddfa Gartref. Felly, gellir trosglwyddo’r model hwnnw o arferion gorau yn gyflym i rywle arall, a bydd canolfan atgyfeirio ymosodiadau rhywiol Bae Colwyn yn agor yn ystod y flwyddyn ariannol hon. Fodd bynnag, ni allwch ariannu pob dim ar unwaith a chadw pawb yn hapus. Yr hyn yr ydym yn ei wneud yw ariannu llawer o weithgarwch newydd yn y maes hwn.

2.00 p.m.

Joyce Watson: One way of keeping women and their children safe is for all people to recognise that domestic abuse is a public problem and not one that can be hidden in the home any longer. Therefore, do you agree that, to this end, the fifth multi-faith, ecumenical Light a Candle service, to be held on 26 November at Llandaff cathedral, is an excellent way of getting cross-community support to end violence against women in the home?

The First Minister: There has been a huge change already, but that does not mean that the job is done. There is a huge change now in the willingness of women—and this usually affects women, although, now and again, it affects men; on probably one in 20 occasions it will be a man who is affected, and on 19 in 20 occasions it will be a woman—to emerge from the syndrome of believing that they should be ashamed of being the victims, as distinct from being complainants against the perpetrators to the police, via their GP, and so on. The same applies to any battering or sexual assault of children—those cases need to be taken up. We know that it is important to make the relevant authority aware of it, via whoever spots it, whether it is a teacher, a social worker or the complainant—who is usually a woman—at an early stage, and for that person to be moved into a refuge if that is the right answer for them. The cross-community awareness-raising campaign later this month, which you mentioned—as well as the campaign over the Christmas period—is of huge importance.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae newid enfawr wedi bod eisoes, ond nid yw hynny’n golygu bod y gwaith ar ben. Mae newid enfawr yn awr o ran parodrwydd menywod—ac effeithio ar fenywod y bydd hyn fel rheol, er y bydd o bryd i’w gilydd yn effeithio ar ddynion; mae’n debyg mai dyn sy’n dioddef mewn un achos o bob 20 ac mai menyw sy’n dioddef mewn 19 achos o bob 20—i godi o’r syndrom o gredu y dylai fod cywilydd arnynt mai hwy yw’r dioddefwyr, yn hytrach nag achwyn wrth yr heddlu, drwy eu meddyg teulu ac yn y blaen, ynglŷn â’r rhai sy’n gyfrifol. Mae’r un peth yn wir am unrhyw guro neu ymosodiadau rhywiol ar blant—mae angen mynd i’r afael â’r achosion hynny. Gwyddom oll ei bod yn bwysig sicrhau bod yr awdurdod perthnasol yn ymwybodol ohono, drwy gyfrwng pwy bynnag sy’n sylwi arno, boed hynny’n athro, yn weithiwr cymdeithasol neu’r achwynydd—menyw fel rheol—a hynny’n fuan er mwyn ei symud i loches os mai hynny yw’r ateb iawn iddynt. Mae’r ymgyrch ar draws y gymuned i godi ymwybyddiaeth yn ddiweddarach y mis hwn, a grybwyllwyd gennych—yn ogystal â’r ymgyrch dros gyfnod y Nadolig—yn eithriadol o bwysig.

Kirsty Williams: Do you accept that, in tackling violence against women, we need a co-ordinated approach, and that, at present, many of the services are fractured, and that we need a clear vision to end violence against women in Wales? If you agree with that premise, when will your Government establish a national strategy to deal with violence against women?

Kirsty Williams: A ydych yn derbyn, wrth fynd i’r afael â thrais yn erbyn menywod, fod angen dull cydgysylltiedig o weithredu, a bod llawer o’r gwasanaethau, ar hyn o bryd, yn dameidiog, a bod angen gweledigaeth glir arnom er mwyn rhoi terfyn ar drais yn erbyn menywod yng Nghymru? Os cytunwch â’r gosodiad hwnnw, pryd y gwnaiff eich Llywodraeth sefydlu strategaeth genedlaethol i ddelio â thrais yn erbyn menywod?

The First Minister: I believe that we have established a strategy. I agree with you about co-ordination—that is the point that I am making. Although SARCs only deal with sexual assault, sexual assault is the twin sister or brother of domestic violence; all too frequently, the two things are combined. The all-Wales national strategy is available to everyone, but it is a question of working it through so that there is an adequate spread of specialist centres. It is key that, as is the case at the SARC in Cardiff Royal Infirmary, all the agencies work together, preferably in the same place, and that includes the police, doctors, therapists, psychologists and voluntary sector advisers—they need to be co-located. As I mentioned in an earlier answer to Nerys, under that model, instead of there being 12 hours of chasing around—and all the unbearable uncertainty that that means for the victim—everything is done in three hours, which doubles at least the chance of making an appropriate arrest.

Y Prif Weinidog: Credaf ein bod wedi sefydlu strategaeth. Cytunaf â chi ynglŷn â chydgysylltu—dyna’r pwynt yr wyf yn ei wneud. Er mai ymwneud ag ymosodiadau rhywiol yn unig y bydd canolfannau atgyfeirio ymosodiadau rhywiol, ymosodiadau rhywiol yw gefell trais domestig; yn rhy aml o lawer, bydd y ddau beth law yn llaw. Mae strategaeth genedlaethol Cymru gyfan ar gael i bawb, ond mae angen ei datblygu er mwyn sicrhau bod digon o ganolfannau arbenigol ar gael yn y mannau iawn. Mae’n allweddol, fel sy’n wir am y ganolfan atgyfeirio ymosodiadau rhywiol yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Caerdydd, i bob asiantaeth gydweithio, yn yr un lle os oes modd, ac mae hynny’n cynnwys yr heddlu, meddygon, therapyddion, seicolegwyr a chynghorwyr y sector gwirfoddol—mae angen iddynt fod yn yr un lle. Fel y soniais mewn ateb cynharach i Nerys, dan y model hwnnw, yn hytrach na bod 12 awr o ruthro o un lle i’r llall—a’r holl ansicrwydd annioddefol y mae hynny’n ei olygu i’r dioddefwr—bydd popeth yn cael ei wneud o fewn teirawr, sydd o leiaf yn dyblu’r cyfle o wneud arestiad priodol.

Digital TV Services

Gwasanaethau Teledu Digidol

Q5 Janet Ryder: What discussions has the First Minister had regarding digital television services in Wales? OAQ(3)1433(FM)

C5 Janet Ryder: Pa drafodaethau y mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi’u cael ynghylch gwasanaethau teledu digidol yng Nghymru? OAQ(3)1433(FM)

The First Minister: We are in regular discussions with Digital UK, the UK Department for Culture, Media and Sport, and Ofcom, the regulator, about digital switchover, which will take place in 2009 in Wales.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydym yn cynnal trafodaethau cyson gyda Digital UK, yr Adran dros Ddiwylliant, y Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon y DU, ac Ofcom, y rheolydd, am y newid i ddigidol, a fydd yn digwydd yn 2009 yng Nghymru.

Janet Ryder: I am sure that you are aware that, under the old analogue system, areas in the north-east have not been able to get any coverage from Welsh stations, either through the medium of Welsh or through the medium of English. People in those areas were given to understand that, once the digital switchover happened, that would be rectified, and they would be able to receive the Welsh stations. It now appears that there will still be pockets that will not be able to receive Welsh or English-medium coverage from Wales. Those people are missing out on a lot of coverage of news and sport and events that happen in Wales. What discussions have your officers had with the digital companies to ensure that, with the use of booster stations, and perhaps the use of alternative masts, those pockets will be eradicated, and that everyone in north-east Wales will be able to receive coverage from Wales?

Janet Ryder: Yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod yn gwybod, dan yr hen drefn analog, nad yw ardaloedd yn y gogledd-ddwyrain wedi gallu cael darpariaeth o gwbl gan orsafoedd Cymru, na thrwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg na thrwy gyfrwng y Saesneg. Rhoddwyd ar ddeall i bobl yr ardaloedd hynny, pan ddigwyddai’r newid i ddigidol, y byddai popeth yn iawn, ac y byddent yn gallu cael gorsafoedd Cymru. Ymddengys yn awr y bydd pocedi o hyd na fyddant yn gallu cael na darpariaeth Gymraeg na darpariaeth Saesneg o Gymru. Mae’r bobl hynny’n cael eu hamddifadu o lawer o arlwy newyddion a chwaraeon a digwyddiadau yng Nghymru. Pa drafodaethau y mae’ch swyddogion wedi’u cael gyda’r cwmnïau digidol i sicrhau y caiff y pocedi hynny eu dileu, drwy ddefnyddio gorsafoedd cyfnerthu, ac efallai drwy ddefnyddio mastiau amgen, ac y bydd pawb yn y gogledd-ddwyrain yn gallu cael rhaglenni o Gymru?

The First Minister: The mountains in north-east Wales slope to the north-east. It is difficult to have a mast to beam into, by direct line of sight, mountains that are facing the wrong way, if I can put it like that. We are told that switching off the analogue signal will mean that the digital signal can be strengthened. When that happens, Freesat will be available to 98.7 per cent of households in Wales, which is the same as now. However, areas such as Bagillt, Flint and parts of Wrexham that face north-eastwards will be presented with an acute difficulty, but I need to know in exactly what way. Nobody is going to be worse off once the strengthening of the digital signal takes place, and it can only take place after the analogue switch-off. I do not know whether people in Bagillt are going to be better off; we need to look at that.

Darren Millar: A number of communities in Wales, predominantly in rural areas, receive their terrestrial television signals via relay transmitters that will not be able to relay digital television signals after the switchover. Households in these areas, such as those in Gwyddelwern in my constituency, will not be able to enjoy the choice of being able to buy inexpensive set-top boxes to receive digital television. Instead, they will have to pay a significant cost in terms of the upgrading of the relay transmitters, or rely on satellite television. With switchover on the horizon, do you think that it is fair that these communities will have to face a significant extra cost? People in Gwyddelwern are not the only ones affected; other communities in Wales are also affected. If you do not think that it is fair, what discussions are you having with the UK Government to make sure that these particularly rural parts of Wales are not significantly disadvantaged compared with some of the urban areas that will receive these signals?    

Darren Millar: Mae nifer o gymunedau yng Nghymru, mewn ardaloedd gwledig yn bennaf, yn cael eu signalau teledu daearol drwy drosglwyddyddion relái ac ni fydd y rheini’n gallu anfon signalau teledu digidol ar ôl y newid. Ni fydd aelwydydd yn yr ardaloedd hyn, megis y rheini yng Ngwyddelwern, yn fy etholaeth i, yn gallu mwynhau’r dewis o allu prynu blychau rhad i’w rhoi ar ben eu set er mwyn cael eu teledu digidol. Yn hytrach, bydd rhaid iddynt dalu’ gost sylweddol sy’n codi yn sgil uwchraddio’r trosglwyddyddion relái, neu ddibynnu ar deledu lloeren. A’r newid ar y gorwel, a gredwch ei bod yn deg i’r cymunedau hyn orfod wynebu cost ychwanegol sylweddol? Nid pobl Gwyddelwern yw’r unig rai yr effeithir arnynt; effeithir ar gymunedau eraill yng Nghymru hefyd. Oni chredwch fod hyn yn deg, pa drafodaethau yr ydych yn eu cael gyda Llywodraeth y DU er mwyn sicrhau nad yw’r ardaloedd arbennig o wledig hyn yng Nghymru dan anfantais sylweddol o’u cymharu â rhai o’r ardaloedd trefol a fydd yn cael y signalau hyn?

The First Minister: I am sure that you are right to point to the figure of 1.3 per cent, although it can be a lot more in certain areas. You will also find areas of the geographical kind that I referred to in my answer to Janet Ryder in rural parts of northward-facing valleys. In those areas, you cannot correct the problem by satellite, because all the satellites fly over the equator and their signals will only reach southward-facing mountain slopes and not northward-facing ones. All I am doing today is telling you that the mountains are in the wrong place and that the equator is in the wrong place, and that, therefore, we have a problem. I was not there at the end of the sixth day of the creation of this universe to point out that there would be problems when it came to the digital switchover. That is where we are.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod yn iawn yn tynnu sylw at y ffigur 1.3 y cant, er y gall fod yn fwy o lawer mewn rhai ardaloedd. Gwelwch hefyd ardaloedd o’r math daearyddol y cyfeiriais atynt yn fy ateb i Janet Ryder yn ardaloedd gwledig y cymoedd sy’n wynebu’r gogledd. Yn yr ardaloedd hynny, ni allwch gywiro’r broblem drwy ddefnyddio lloeren, oherwydd bod y lloerenni i gyd yn hedfan dros y cyhydedd, a dim ond llethrau mynyddoedd sy’n wynebu’r de y bydd eu signalau’n eu cyrraedd, ac nid y rhai sy’n wynebu’r gogledd. Y cyfan yr wyf yn ei wneud heddiw yw dweud wrthych fod y mynyddoedd yn y lle anghywir, ac felly, bod gennym broblem. Nid oeddwn yno ar ddiwedd chweched dydd creu’r bydysawd hwn i dynnu sylw at y ffaith y byddai problemau pan ddeuai’r newid i ddigidol. Yn y fan honno yr ydym.

We have to look at the extent to which the digital switchover and the strengthening of the signal will solve some of the problems. However, we know that, geographically, we are going to be left with some areas that you cannot reach with satellite signals or with an even stronger digital signal. We need to continue to try to get from 98.7 per cent to 99.7 per cent, but there will always be places in a mountainous area like Wales that will face real difficulties.

Eleanor Burnham: Forgive me, but that is a load of tosh. We should not be lying down and doing nothing about this. We have had enough time to think about it, for God’s sake. There must be somebody with a brain around to sort out mountains and to get beyond them. This is absolutely ridiculous. We are not only taking about dear old Gwyddelwern, which I know well; we are talking about Wrexham too. Ever since I have been at the Assembly, I have been talking to people about this, and I cannot ever get to the bottom of it. Somebody is passing the buck to somebody else, and it is absolutely disgraceful. On behalf of my constituents across north Wales, where there are obviously mountains, I would like to say that it is about time that you got your act together: sort it out and bang some heads together, instead of telling us about the topography and that you are not God.

Eleanor Burnham: Maddeuwch imi, ond lol hollol yw hynny. Ni ddylem fod yn eistedd yn ôl a gwneud dim am hyn. Yr ydym wedi cael digon o amser i feddwl amdano, er mwyn Duw. Rhaid bod rhywun â digon o grebwyll yn y byd i ddatrys problem mynyddoedd a sut mae mynd y tu hwnt iddynt. Mae hyn yn hollol hurt. Nid dim ond sôn am yr hen Wyddelwern annwyl yr ydym, pentref yr wyf yn ei adnabod yn dda; yr ydym yn sôn am Wrecsam hefyd. Ers imi fod yn y Cynulliad, yr wyf wedi bod yn siarad â phobl am hyn, ac ni allaf byth fynd at wraidd y peth. Mae rhywun yn bwrw’r baich ar rywun arall, ac mae’n gwbl gywilyddus. Ar ran fy etholwyr ledled y gogledd, ardal sy’n amlwg yn ardal fynyddig, hoffwn ddweud ei bod yn hen bryd ichi gael trefn ar bethau; datrys y broblem a tharo ambell ben yn erbyn ei gilydd, yn hytrach na dweud wrthym am y nodweddion daearyddol a dweud nad Duw mohonoch.

The First Minister: I see that you have taken my words about the Liberal Democrats devaluing the English language to heart, Eleanor, and you have given us a good lesson in it. I am glad that you followed my lead five minutes ago in referring to Wrexham as having a problem. It does have a problem. I have seen television sets in Wrexham that simply get frazzled lines when people are trying to receive Welsh television. That is especially true on the north-eastward facing slopes of Wrexham, in areas such as Coed-poeth and Minera. We have to work out what strategy will be followed. Will these areas still be as badly affected after the digital signal has been upgraded, following the switch-off of analogue? If it is going to be as bad as it has been in recent years in Bagillt, Wrexham and other rural areas, what will the authorities do about it? Will they expect the solution to be met by private expense or by public expense?

Y Prif Weinidog: Gwelaf eich bod wedi gwrando’n astud ar fy ngeiriau ynglŷn â’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn dibrisio’r Saesneg, Eleanor, a’ch bod wedi rhoi gwers dda inni yn hynny o beth. Yr wyf yn falch ichi ddilyn fy arweiniad bum munud yn ôl drwy gyfeirio at y ffaith bod gan Wrecsam broblem. Mae ganddi broblem. Yr wyf wedi gweld setiau teledu yn Wrecsam na chânt fawr gwell na llinellau blêr pan fydd pobl yn ceisio cael teledu o Gymru. Mae hynny’n arbennig o wir ar y llethrau hynny yn Wrecsam sy’n wynebu’r gogledd-ddwyrain, mewn ardaloedd megis Coed-poeth a Minera. Rhaid inni weld pa strategaeth a ddilynir. A effeithir ar yr ardaloedd hyn cyn waethed ar ôl uwchraddio’r signal digidol, ar ôl diffodd yr analog? Os bydd pethau cynddrwg ag y maent wedi bod yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf ym Magillt, yn Wrecsam ac mewn ardaloedd gwledig eraill, beth fydd yr awdurdodau’n ei wneud yn ei gylch? A fyddant yn disgwyl i’r pwrs preifat, ynteu i’r pwrs cyhoeddus dalu am yr ateb?

The Blue Badge Scheme

Q6 Chris Franks: What discussions has the First Minister had regarding the abuse of the blue badge scheme for disabled drivers? OAQ(3)1428(FM)

C6 Chris Franks: Pa drafodaethau y mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi’u cael ynghylch camddefnyddio’r cynllun bathodynnau glas ar gyfer gyrwyr anabl? OAQ(3)1428(FM)

The First Minister: This is a huge issue. Our blue badge reform strategy will set out stronger proposals on how to deter fraud and to assist with the enforcement of the scheme. We have an independent adviser helping us to finalise and concrete proposals for the blue badge reform strategy.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae hyn yn broblem enfawr. Bydd ein strategaeth ar gyfer diwygio’r bathodyn glas yn cynnwys cynigion cryfach ynglŷn â sut y mae atal twyll a sut y gellir cynorthwyo i orfodi’r cynllun. Mae gennym gynghorydd annibynnol yn ein cynorthwyo i lunio’r cynigion terfynol cadarn ar gyfer strategaeth diwygio’r bathodyn glas.

2.10 p.m.

Chris Franks: First Minister, in the interests of fairness, do you think that local authorities should be stepping up enforcement to tackle abuse of the blue-badge system? I raised this issue in the summer, and some interesting facts have come to light. I am pleased to say that Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council, for instance, is tightening its procedure for reclaiming the badges of deceased badge holders. I have also found evidence of counterfeit badges being used in Wales, including to cross the Severn bridge. Do you agree that we need to tackle this issue on a Wales-wide basis?

Chris Franks: Brif Weinidog, er mwyn tegwch, a gredwch y dylai awdurdodau lleol fod yn cryfhau eu camau gorfodi er mwyn mynd i’r afael â chamddefnyddio’r drefn bathodynnau glas? Codais hyn yn yr haf, ac mae ambell ffaith ddiddorol wedi dod i’r golwg. Yr wyf yn falch o ddweud bod Cyngor Bwrdeistref Rhondda Cynon Taf, er enghraifft, yn cryfhau ei weithdrefn ar gyfer adhawlio bathodynnau ar ôl i bobl farw. Yr wyf hefyd wedi gweld tystiolaeth bod bathodynnau ffug yn cael eu defnyddio yng Nghymru, ac mae hynny’n cynnwys er mwyn croesi pont Hafren. A gytunwch fod angen inni fynd i’r afael â’r broblem hon ledled Cymru?

The First Minister: There will be new guidance to local authorities, once the independent panel has reported on how to finalise the scheme. There will be new regulations, and enforcement is certainly one of the four top topics. Eligibility, concessions, administration and enforcement, and alternatives and choices are the four subjects. We expect to issue new guidance to local authorities fairly soon.

Y Prif Weinidog: Rhoddir canllawiau newydd i awdurdodau lleol, pan fydd y panel annibynnol wedi cyflwyno’i adroddiad ynglŷn â llunio’r cynllun terfynol. Bydd rheoliadau newydd, ac mae gorfodi yn sicr yn un o’r pedwar prif bwnc. Cymhwysedd, consesiynau, gweinyddu a gorfodi, a chynlluniau amgen a dewisiadau yw’r pedwar pwnc. Disgwyliwn gyhoeddi canllawiau newydd ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol yn weddol fuan.

William Graham: First Minister, will you join me in praising the Newport Access Group, which has similarly highlighted the continuing misuse of disabled parking spaces, particularly in the city’s supermarkets? Asda took the lead this year, announcing that shoppers caught wrongly parking in bays for disabled people in Asda store car parks throughout Gwent will face a £60 on-the-spot fine. However, I also ask you to bear in mind that the people who are filling in these forms are often our most vulnerable citizens who do need the blue badge.

William Graham: Brif Weinidog, a wnewch ymuno â mi i ganmol Grŵp Mynediad Casnewydd, sydd, yn yr un modd, wedi tynnu sylw at gamddefnyddio’n barhaus lecynnau parcio i bobl anabl, yn enwedig yn archfarchnadoedd y ddinas? Rhoddodd Asda arweiniad eleni, drwy gyhoeddi y byddai siopwyr a gâi eu dal yn parcio heb hawl mewn mannau parcio sydd wedi’u neilltuo ar gyfer pobl anabl ym meysydd parcio siopau Asda drwy Went yn wynebu dirwy o £60 yn y fan a’r lle. Fodd bynnag, gofynnaf ichi gofio hefyd mai’r bobl sy’n llenwi’r ffurflenni hyn yn aml yw’n dinasyddion mwyaf agored i niwed—dinasyddion y mae angen y bathodyn glas arnynt.

The First Minister: We should try to instil a degree of respect for the blue badge and reserved parking bays for disabled people, whether they are on the public highway, in public parking areas or a part of private arrangements made by supermarkets to permit people with walking difficulties to get really close to the shop. That respect is not there at the moment, and I commend any council or supermarket, with regard to its own private parking arrangements, that tries to ensure that the blue badge is reserved for the purpose for which it was intended. It is an abuse if you have parked in such a space when you are perfectly able. Until somebody has pushed another person around in a wheelchair, they do not realise the difference that it makes if you have to walk 100 yards from the far end of the car park in the pouring rain or 10 yards from the reserved bays for disabled people. It makes an enormous difference to your ability to go out to shop with a disabled member of the family. If people had had the experience themselves, they would not do it, but, unfortunately, people do abuse the system.

Y Prif Weinidog: Dylem geisio ennyn rhywfaint o barch at y bathodyn glas ac at lecynnau parcio sydd wedi’u neilltuo ar gyfer pobl anabl, boed y rheini ar ffyrdd cyhoeddus, mewn meysydd parcio cyhoeddus, neu’n rhan o drefniadau preifat  archfarchnadoedd er mwyn i bobl sy’n cael anhawster cerdded barcio’n agos iawn at y siop. Nid yw’r parch hwnnw’n bod ar hyn o bryd, a chymeradwyaf unrhyw gyngor neu archfarchnad, gyda golwg ar eu trefniadau parcio preifat eu hunain, sy’n ceisio sicrhau bod y bathodyn glas yn cael ei ddefnyddio at y diben y’i bwriadwyd. Os ydych wedi parcio mewn llecyn o’r fath a chithau’n gwbl abl, yr ydych yn camddefnyddio’r drefn. Nes bod rhywun wedi gwthio rhywun arall o gwmpas mewn cadair olwynion, ni fyddant yn sylweddoli’r gwahaniaeth y mae’n ei wneud os bydd rhaid ichi gerdded 100 llath o ben draw’r maes parcio a hithau’n pistyllio bwrw yn hytrach na 10 llath o’r llecynnau sydd wedi’u neilltuo ar gyfer pobl anabl. Mae’n gwneud gwahaniaeth anferth i’ch gallu i fynd allan i siopa gydag aelod anabl o’r teulu. Petai pobl wedi cael y profiad hwn eu hunain, ni fyddent yn ei wneud, ond, yn anffodus, bydd pobl yn camddefnyddio’r drefn.

Public Sewerage Network

C7 Paul Davies: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am lywodraethu’r rhwydwaith carthffosiaeth cyhoeddus yng Nghymru? OAQ(3)1431(FM)

Q7 Paul Davies: Will the First Minister make a statement on the governance of the public sewerage network in Wales? OAQ(3)1431(FM)

Y Prif Weinidog: Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru sy’n pennu’r fframwaith polisi ar gyfer y diwydiant dŵr a’r sawl sy’n rheoleiddio’r diwydiant, gan gynnwys Ofwat, Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd ac ar gyfer cyrff eraill, gan gynnwys yr Arolygiaeth Dŵr Yfed a’r Cyngor Defnyddwyr Dŵr, a hynny mewn cylch cynllunio busnes a phennu prisiau er mwyn sicrhau gwasanaeth fforddiadwy sydd o safon uchel.

The First Minister: The Welsh Assembly Government sets the policy framework for the water industry and its regulators, including Ofwat and the Environment Agency and for others, including the Drinking Water Inspectorate and the Consumer Council for Water, in a business planning and price-setting round to ensure a high-quality and affordable service.

Paul Davies: Gofynnais i’r Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd, Cynaliadwyedd a Thai rai wythnosau yn ôl ynglŷn â’r broses fuddsoddi yn ein system garthffosiaeth a dŵr. Mae’n debyg na fydd penderfyniadau ynglŷn â buddsoddi i wella’r system ddŵr a charthffosiaeth yn rhai o’r pentrefi yn fy etholaeth yn cael eu gwneud gan Dŵr Cymru nes hydref 2009, er bod y cynlluniau wedi’u cyflwyno i Ofwat ym mis Medi eleni. Ar ben hynny, os caiff y cynlluniau eu cytuno, gellir disgwyl efallai hyd at y flwyddyn 2015 cyn bydd y gwaith yn cael ei wneud. Mae’r Gweinidog, wrth gwrs, yn archwilio i’r mater, ond a ydych yn cytuno, Brif Weinidog, fod yr amserlen hon yn annerbyniol ac, os felly, a ydych chi a’r Llywodraeth yn fodlon ystyried trafod y mater hwn gydag Ofwat er mwyn cyflymu’r broses?

Y Prif Weinidog: Byddai cyflymu’r broses ar draws Cymru yn golygu ailddrafftio’r cynllun busnes drafft sydd gerbron Ofwat yn awr ar gyfer y pum mlynedd yn dechrau yn y flwyddyn 2010. Yr ydym am sicrhau na fydd yn golygu gormod o gynnydd yn y gost o ddarparu cyflenwad dŵr ac o ddelio gyda’r garthffosiaeth. Mae Dŵr Cymru yn dweud ei fod am fuddsoddi £800 miliwn yn y gwelliannau y mae am eu gwneud yn ystod y pum mlynedd nesaf, ond nid yw hynny’n golygu y bydd pob peth o ran y cynllun pum mlynedd yn cael ei wneud yn ystod y flwyddyn gyntaf. Dyna beth sy’n bwysig: yr hyn sy’n rhesymol i Ddŵr Cymru ei wneud a’r ffordd y mae’n penderfynu ar y blaenoriaethau—hynny yw, beth fydd yn ei wneud ym mlwyddyn 1, blwyddyn 2 ac yn y blaen, hyd at 2015.

Janice Gregory: First Minister, problems with unadopted sewers are a major issue for many people in my constituency, particularly those on estates built from the 1970s onward. When these sewers fail, no-one takes responsibility, and the only remedy is council action to force a group of residents to pay for repairs. Inadequate and ill-maintained sewers are a nuisance and a health hazard, and the problem is growing as more new estates are built. Would you look at ways for the Welsh Assembly Government to work with local councils and Welsh Water to develop a proactive strategy for dealing with these problems?

Janice Gregory: Brif Weinidog, mae problemau gyda charthffosydd sydd heb eu mabwysiadu yn fater o bwys i lawer o bobl yn fy etholaeth, yn enwedig y rhai sydd mewn ystadau a godwyd o’r 1970au ymlaen. Pan fydd y carthffosydd hyn yn methu, ni fydd neb yn cymryd cyfrifoldeb, a’r unig ateb yw cymryd camau gan y cyngor i orfodi grŵp o breswylwyr i dalu am waith atgyweirio. Mae carthffosydd sy’n annigonol a heb eu cynnal yn dda’n niwsans ac yn berygl i iechyd, ac mae’r broblem yn cynyddu wrth godi rhagor o ystadau. A wnewch ystyried ffyrdd i Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru gydweithio â chynghorau lleol a Dŵr Cymru i ddatblygu strategaeth ragweithiol i ddelio â’r problemau hyn?

The First Minister: You will probably be aware that an in-principle decision was taken in 2007 to transfer private sewers and lateral drains to the ownership of sewerage undertakers whose area of supply is mainly in Wales. We produced a strategic policy position statement on that, and a working party is currently looking at how to transfer private sewers and drains, and who would pay for it, on an England-and-Wales basis. My understanding is that £32 million has been put into Welsh Water/Dŵr Cymru’s budget to help to cover some of those costs, but I do not know the detail of how that will break down at the moment. I will therefore write to you with that information, including details of how decisions will be made on which areas are a priority.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae’n debyg y byddwch yn ymwybodol bod penderfyniad wedi’i wneud mewn egwyddor yn 2007 i drosglwyddo carthffosydd preifat a draeniau ochrol i berchenogaeth ymgymerwyr carthffosiaeth y mae eu hardal gyflenwi yng Nghymru’n bennaf. Lluniasom ddatganiad safbwynt polisi strategol ar hynny, ac mae gweithgor yn ystyried ar hyn o bryd sut i drosglwyddo carthffosydd a draeniau preifat, a phwy a fyddai’n talu am hynny, yng nghyd-destun Cymru a Lloegr. Yr wyf yn deall bod £32 miliwn wedi’i roi yng nghyllideb Welsh Water/Dŵr Cymru i helpu i dalu am rai o’r costau hynny, ond ni wn sut yn union y caiff hynny ei rannu ar hyn o bryd. Ysgrifennaf atoch felly i roi’r wybodaeth honno, gan gynnwys manylion ynghylch sut y penderfynir ar yr ardaloedd a gaiff flaenoriaeth.

Mohammad Asghar: There can be problems where sewers are private and have not been adopted. How many houses in South Wales East are subject to adoption agreements? What protection is available to householders served by unadopted private sewers in the event of blockages and problems with pipelines and pumping stations? In certain areas around Corporation Road in Newport the drains fill with water during light rain, let alone heavy rain.

Mohammad Asghar: Gellir cael problemau mewn cysylltiad â charthffosydd preifat sydd heb eu mabwysiadu. Faint o dai yn Nwyrain De Cymru sy’n dod dan gytundebau mabwysiadu? Pa amddiffyniad sydd ar gael i ddeiliaid tai a wasanaethir gan garthffosydd preifat sydd heb eu mabwysiadu os digwydd iddynt flocio ac os ceir problemau gyda phiblinellau a gorsafoedd pwmpio? Mewn rhai ardaloedd yng nghyffiniau Corporation Road yng Nghasnewydd bydd y draeniau’n llenwi â dŵr yn ystod glaw ysgafn, heb sôn am law trwm.

The First Minister: Several issues are combined in that question. If you are a householder in a fairly old cottage from an era when planning, water supply and public health regulations were not as tight as they are now, then you are likely to inherit a private sewer. Janice Gregory was referring to housing estates built in the 1970s and later, in relation to which, by and large, a solicitor should warn the purchaser that the developer was responsible for the sewer, or that all of the homeowners are jointly responsible through some sort of arrangement. If that arrangement were to break down, there would usually be some sort of recourse to the solicitor, if the solicitor is still around, or to the developer of the estate, if it had not gone bust in the meantime.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae amryw o faterion wedi’u cyfuno yn y cwestiwn hwnnw. Os ydych yn ddeiliad tŷ mewn bwthyn eithaf hen a godwyd mewn oes pan nad oedd rheoliadau ynghylch cynllunio, cyflenwadau dŵr ac iechyd cyhoeddus mor dynn ag y maent yn awr, yna yr ydych yn debygol o fod wedi etifeddu carthffos breifat. Yr oedd Janice Gregory yn cyfeirio at ystadau tai a godwyd yn yr 1970au ac ar ôl hynny, y dylai cyfreithiwr rybuddio’r prynwr, yn achos y rhan fwyaf ohonynt, fod y datblygwr yn gyfrifol am y garthffos, neu fod yr holl berchenogion tai’n gydgyfrifol drwy ryw fath o drefniant. Petai’r trefniant hwnnw’n methu, byddai modd troi at y cyfreithiwr fel arfer, os yw’r cyfreithiwr yn dal ar gael, neu at ddatblygwr yr ystâd, pe na bai’r hwch wedi mynd drwy’r siop yn y cyfamser.

Inadequacies in the sewerage network leading to overflow and flooding of the road is a different issue, and the local authorities should be able to take the case to the sewerage authority and say that it must do something about the overload on the water or foul drains part of the development.

Mae diffygion yn y rhwydwaith carthffosydd sy’n arwain at orlifo a llifogydd ar y ffordd yn fater gwahanol, a dylai’r awdurdodau lleol allu mynd â’r achos at yr awdurdod carthffosiaeth a dweud bod yn rhaid iddo wneud rhywbeth ynghylch y gorlwyth yn y draeniau dŵr neu’r draeniau dŵr budr yn y datblygiad.

Welsh Agriculture

Amaethyddiaeth yng Nghymru

Q8 Brynle Williams: Will the First Minister make a statement on Welsh Assembly Government plans for the long-term future of Welsh agriculture? OAQ(3)1423(FM)

C8 Brynle Williams: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am gynlluniau Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ar gyfer dyfodol amaethyddiaeth yng Nghymru yn yr hirdymor? OAQ(3)1423(FM)

The First Minister: I have said before, but it bears repetition, that the long-term future of Welsh agriculture is in high-value-added produce. It is not easy for us to compete on tonnage of commodities, but if we can change our orientation and get premium products to market, securing premium prices for them, then that is the real future. Then there are specific actions that we must take, such as integrating the strategies for farming, food, and the countryside, and a scheme to support young entrants into farming.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr wyf wedi dweud o’r blaen, ond mae’n werth dweud eto, fod dyfodol hirdymor amaethyddiaeth yng Nghymru ym maes cynnyrch â gwerth ychwanegol uchel. Nid yw’n hawdd inni gystadlu o ran gwerthu nwyddau wrth y dunnell, ond os gallwn newid cyfeiriad a rhoi cynhyrchion o’r radd flaenaf ar y farchnad, gan sicrhau’r prisiau gorau posibl amdanynt, yn hynny y mae’r dyfodol mewn gwirionedd. Wedyn mae camau penodol y mae’n rhaid inni eu cymryd, megis integreiddio’r strategaethau ar gyfer ffermio, bwyd, a chefn gwlad, a chynllun i helpu newydd-ddyfodiaid ifanc i ddechrau ffermio.

Brynle Williams: On several occasions in the Chamber I have raised the need of the agricultural industry for stability in Government policy. Farmers have to plan their operations years ahead, as we are working with a living industry. Do you not agree that the Government’s policies seem incoherent to many in the industry? The flagship Tir Gofal scheme has been a great success, but it has just had its budget slashed to encourage a move into organic farming at a time when demand for organic produce is likely to shrink because of the economic downturn. How can you expect the industry to produce more food to meet global demand when it is being strangled with red tape and the duplication of unnecessary cross-compliance checks, the electronic identification that is coming in and the expanded nitrate vulnerable zones? I could go on. I would like your comments on that.

Brynle Williams: Yr wyf wedi cyfeirio droeon yn y Siambr at yr angen yn y diwydiant amaethyddol am sefydlogrwydd ym mholisi’r Llywodraeth. Rhaid i ffermwyr gynllunio eu gweithrediadau flynyddoedd ymlaen llaw, gan ein bod yn gweithio gyda diwydiant byw. Onid ydych yn derbyn bod polisïau’r Llywodraeth yn ymddangos yn ddigyswllt i lawer yn y diwydiant? Mae cynllun pwysig Tir Gofal wedi bod yn llwyddiant mawr, ond mae ei gyllideb newydd gael ei thorri i hyrwyddo symudiad tuag at ffermio organig ar adeg pan yw’r galw am gynnyrch organig yn debygol o grebachu oherwydd y dirywiad economaidd. Sut y gallwch ddisgwyl i’r diwydiant gynhyrchu mwy o fwyd i ateb y galw rhyngwladol pan yw’n cael ei dagu gan fiwrocratiaeth a’r dyblygu ar wiriadau trawsgydymffurfio diangen, y dull adnabod electronig sy’n cael ei gyflwyno a’r ehangu ar y parthau perygl nitradau? Gallwn fynd ymlaen. Hoffwn gael sylwadau gennych ynghylch hynny.

2.20 p.m.

The First Minister: I understand entirely the point that farmers do not want to be overburdened with unnecessary red tape. However, there is another side to that in the sense that a premium product for which you can safely charge and get a premium price involves higher welfare standards or being organic or using land-extensive traditional methods. That is how you get the premium. In order to get the premium, you must be able to prove that the product, for example, meat, has been produced to high welfare standards and subjected to few pesticides or extensive farming methods and so on. You will not get the premium from saying, 'No red tape was used in the production of this product’, because people will be worried about what that means. However, there are issues about unnecessary red tape.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr wyf yn llwyr ddeall y pwynt nad yw ffermwyr am gael eu llethu gan fiwrocratiaeth ddiangen. Fodd bynnag, mae ochr arall i hynny o ran bod cynnyrch o’r radd flaenaf y gallwch fod yn sicr o gael y pris gorau amdano’n galw am safonau lles uwch neu ffermio organig neu ddefnyddio dulliau traddodiadol llai dwys. Felly y cewch y pris gorau. Er mwyn cael y pris gorau, rhaid ichi allu profi bod y cynnyrch, er enghraifft, cig, wedi’i gynhyrchu’n unol â safonau lles uchel neu drwy ddulliau ffermio llai dwys ac nad oes llawer o blaladdwyr wedi’u defnyddio ac yn y blaen. Ni chewch y pris gorau drwy ddweud, 'Ni ddefnyddiwyd biwrocratiaeth wrth gynhyrchu’r cynnyrch hwn’, gan y bydd pobl yn poeni am ystyr hynny. Er hynny, mae problemau o ran biwrocratiaeth ddiangen.  

On stability, it is a great idea, but I could not go to the farming industry and suggest that in the interests of stability they would not want the 10 per cent increase that they will get in their single farm payment in a few weeks’ time because the exchange rate has moved against sterling and in favour of the euro. Farmers would say that that is not the kind of stability that we are talking about. They are glad to have the 10.6 per cent increase, net of modulation, that is due this year because of the sterling to euro exchange rate movement.

Ynghylch sefydlogrwydd, mae’n syniad gwych, ond ni allwn fynd at y rhai sydd yn y diwydiant ffermio ac awgrymu, er mwyn sefydlogrwydd, na fyddent am gael y cynnydd o 10 y cant y byddant yn ei gael yn eu taliad sengl ymhen ychydig wythnosau am fod y gyfradd gyfnewid wedi troi yn erbyn sterling ac o blaid yr ewro. Dywedai ffermwyr nad hwnnw yw’r math o sefydlogrwydd yr ydym yn sôn amdano. Maent yn falch o gael y cynnydd o 10.6 y cant, heb gynnwys modiwleiddio, sy’n ddyledus eleni oherwydd y newid yn y gyfradd gyfnewid rhwng sterling a’r ewro.

David Lloyd: Pa asesiad a wnaed o fuddiannau marchnata cynnyrch o Gymru fel cig oen a chig eidion drwy hysbysebu yn y cyfryngau yn nhermau cynyddu gwerthiant?

David Lloyd: What assessment has been made of the benefits of marketing produce from Wales such as lamb and beef by advertising in the media in terms of increased sales?

Y Prif Weinidog: Gobeithio eich bod yn gwylio teledu o bryd i’w gilydd, Dai. Os felly, byddwch wedi gweld yr hysbysebion dros fwyta mwy o gig oen o Gymru. Credaf eu bod yn llwyddiannus iawn. Nid wyf wedi eu gweld y tu allan i Gymru, ond cymeraf yn ganiataol eu bod ar gael ar rwydwaith y tu allan i Gymru, ond, wrth gwrs, nid wyf wedi eu gweld gan fy mod yn byw yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn bwrw ymlaen gyda rhaglen lwyddiannus i farchnata mwy o’n cyfoeth o ran bwyd Cymru er mwyn inni sicrhau ein bod yn cael premiwm i’n ffermwyr am eu cig oen o safon uchel, fel mae ffermwyr gogledd-ddwyrain yr Alban wedi’i gael ers oesoedd am eu cig eidion Aberdeen Angus.

Mick Bates: Gordon Brown recently announced that Government payments to small businesses would be made within 10 days specifically to help them through this economic downturn and yet, in Wales, the agricultural industry, which is made up of small businesses, has horrendously late payments. According to the latest figures that I have, 435 applicants are waiting for Tir Gofal payments, 297 are waiting for organic payments and a further 22 are waiting for Tir Cynnal payments. Often, late payments are due to minor discrepancies between maps for which the Government is responsible. These late payments affect farmers’ cash flow and decrease the viability of our Welsh agricultural industry. What action will you take urgently to ensure that these overdue payments from your Government get to farmers to limit the financial strain on them during this economic downturn?

Mick Bates: Cyhoeddodd Gordon Brown yn ddiweddar y byddai taliadau gan y Llywodraeth i fusnesau bach yn cael eu gwneud o fewn 10 niwrnod yn unswydd er mwyn eu helpu yn ystod y dirywiad economaidd hwn ac eto, yng Nghymru, mae’r diwydiant amaethyddol, diwydiant o fusnesau bach, yn cael taliadau’n ofnadwy o hwyr. Yn ôl y ffigurau diweddaraf sydd gennyf, mae 435 o ymgeiswyr yn aros am daliadau Tir Gofal, mae 297 yn aros am daliadau ffermio organig ac mae 22 arall yn aros am daliadau Tir Cynnal. Yn aml, mae taliadau hwyr yn ganlyniad i fân anghysonderau rhwng mapiau y mae’r Llywodraeth yn gyfrifol amdanynt. Mae’r taliadau hwyr hyn yn effeithio ar lif arian ffermwyr ac yn gwneud ein diwydiant amaethyddol yng Nghymru’n llai hyfyw. Pa gamau a gymerwch ar frys i sicrhau y bydd y taliadau hwyr hyn gan eich Llywodraeth yn cyrraedd ffermwyr i gyfyngu’r straen ariannol sydd arnynt yn ystod y dirywiad economaidd hwn?

The First Minister: I am not sure what the relevance of the Prime Minister’s promise of 10-day payments is, because when you compare the performance of England and Wales on single farm payments over the past three years, Wales has been way ahead of England in terms of our promptness in issuing the single farm payment.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid wyf yn sicr i ba raddau y mae’r addewid gan y Prif Weinidog o daliadau o fewn 10 niwrnod yn berthnasol oherwydd, os cymharwch berfformiad Lloegr a Chymru o ran taliadau sengl dros y tair blynedd diwethaf, mae Cymru wedi bod ymhell ar y blaen i Loegr o ran rhoi’r taliad sengl yn brydlon.

You are talking about Tir Gofal and Tir Cynnal, but the answer was in your question. If there are minor discrepancies, then inevitably in the stewardship of public money, we have to be a bit careful. However, being careful and being a bit of a fuss pot are two different things. If you have evidence that people are looking at quite absurd minor discrepancies and that official maps are at fault, then obviously we have to take the blame for the maps being at fault because we produced the maps, but if it is down to more than that, then it is not our fault if people do not fill in the forms correctly.

Yr ydych yn sôn am Tir Gofal a Tir Cynnal, ond yr oedd yr ateb yn eich cwestiwn. Os oes mân anghysonderau, mae’n anorfod bod yn  rhaid inni fod yn eithaf gofalus wrth warchod arian cyhoeddus. Er hynny, mae bod yn ofalus a bod ychydig yn ffwdanllyd yn ddau beth gwahanol. Os oes gennych dystiolaeth sy’n dangos bod pobl yn ystyried mân anghysonderau eithaf hurt a bod mapiau swyddogol ar fai, yna mae’n amlwg bod yn  rhaid inni gymryd y bai am y diffyg yn y mapiau am mai ni a gynhyrchodd y mapiau, ond os yw’n ganlyniad i fwy na hynny, yna nid ni sydd ar fai os nad yw pobl yn llenwi’r ffurflenni’n gywir.

Joyce Watson: The axis 2 consultation document sets out the change in approach embodied in the review that subsidy payments under axis 2 should deliver wider public and environmental goods that are not delivered by the market. The document also notes that getting the message across that grant schemes under axis 2 are not income support schemes will require a cultural shift in the agricultural industry. How do you see such a cultural shift being achieved?

Joyce Watson: Mae’r ddogfen ymgynghori ar echel 2 yn egluro’r newid yn y dull o weithredu sydd wedi’i ymgorffori yn yr adolygiad, sef y dylai cymorthdaliadau dan echel 2 sicrhau buddion cyhoeddus ac amgylcheddol ehangach nad yw’r farchnad yn eu cyflawni. Mae’r ddogfen yn nodi hefyd y bydd angen newid diwylliannol yn y diwydiant amaethyddol er mwyn cyfleu’r neges nad yw cynlluniau grant dan echel 2 yn gynlluniau cymhorthdal incwm. Sut yr ydych yn rhagweld y sicrheir newid diwylliannol o’r fath?

The First Minister: We are right in the middle of the consultation period. I believe that the 12 weeks for consultation ends on 19 December 2008. You are right to point to the fact that it should not be envisaged as a production support scheme. It is intended to be part of the CAP health check, which is taking place in 27 countries right across Europe.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydym yn union ar ganol y cyfnod ymgynghori. Yr wyf yn credu bod y 12 wythnos ar gyfer ymgynghori’n dod i ben ar 19 Rhagfyr 2008. Yr ydych yn iawn wrth gyfeirio at y ffaith na ddylid ei ystyried yn gynllun i hybu cynhyrchu. Bwriedir iddo fod yn rhan o archwiliad iechyd y PAC, sy’n digwydd mewn 27 o wledydd ledled Ewrop.

Four examples of the issues that are intended to form part of this are improving water management, taking action against the worst effects of climate change, which is a related issue, enhancing biodiversity, which is another related issue, and addressing the need of bioenergy without affecting the supply of food crops. These are huge issues, and I hope that farmers will participate fully in the consultation, which is in its middle period.

Pedair enghraifft o’r materion y bwriedir iddynt fod yn rhan o hyn yw rheoli dŵr yn well, cymryd camau yn erbyn effeithiau gwaethaf y newid yn yr hinsawdd, sy’n fater cysylltiedig, gwella bioamrywiaeth, sy’n fater arall sy’n gysylltiedig, a rhoi sylw i’r angen am fioynni heb effeithio ar y cyflenwad o gnydau bwyd. Mae’r rhain yn faterion pwysig iawn, ac yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd ffermwyr yn cyfranogi’n llawn yn yr ymgynghoriad, sy’n digwydd ar hyn o bryd.

Tourism

Twristiaeth

Q9 Nick Bourne: Will the First Minister make a statement on tourism in Wales? OAQ(3)1424(FM)

C9 Nick Bourne: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am dwristiaeth yng Nghymru? OAQ(3)1424(FM)

The First Minister: The latest figures, which are still provisional at this stage, show that between January and July—do not ask me about August, because we do not have figures yet, but they will not be pretty—visitors to Wales from our key UK market are up almost 4.5 per cent on the same period last year. Visitor spend is up by 8.6 per cent over the same period.

Y Prif Weinidog: Dengys y ffigurau diweddaraf, sydd dros dro ar hyn o bryd, fod nifer yr ymwelwyr â Chymru o’n marchnad allweddol yn y DU rhwng mis Ionawr a mis Gorffennaf wedi cynyddu tua 4.5 y cant o’i gymharu â’r un cyfnod y llynedd—peidiwch â gofyn imi ynghylch mis Awst, oherwydd nid yw’r ffigurau gennym eto, ond ni fyddant yn rhai gwych. Cynyddodd y gwariant gan ymwelwyr tua 8.6 y cant yn ystod yr un cyfnod.

Nick Bourne: I certainly do not blame the First Minister for August, as neither he nor I could have done anything about that.

Nick Bourne: Yn sicr, nid wyf yn rhoi’r bai ar y Prif Weinidog am fis Awst, gan na allasai ef na minnau wneud dim ynghylch hynny.

He will have seen the Wales Tourism Alliance report about the disconnection between the tourism industry and Visit Wales. From speaking to people in the industry, which I do regularly, given the area that I represent, there is a concern about the top-down approach of Visit Wales and a feeling that it is not as accessible as the old service. What is the Government doing to address that to make it more relevant to tourism operators and therefore more relevant to people outside the industry? We need these people to spend their money in Wales, and we have a historic opportunity now with the fall in the value of our currency.

Bydd wedi gweld yr adroddiad gan Gynghrair Twristiaeth Cymru ynghylch y diffyg cysylltiad rhwng y diwydiant ymwelwyr a Croeso Cymru. O siarad â phobl sydd yn y diwydiant, fel y byddaf yn gwneud yn rheolaidd, o gofio’r ardal yr wyf yn ei chynrychioli, mae pryder ynghylch y dull o weithredu o’r brig i lawr yn Croeso Cymru a theimlad nad yw mor hygyrch â’r hen wasanaeth. Beth y mae’r Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i roi sylw i hynny er mwyn ei wneud yn fwy perthnasol i weithredwyr twristiaeth ac felly’n fwy perthnasol i bobl y tu allan i’r diwydiant? Mae angen i’r bobl hyn wario’u harian yng Nghymru, ac mae gennym gyfle hanesyddol yn awr wrth i werth ein harian ostwng.

The First Minister: I did not see the programme, but I have discussed it with representatives of the Tourism Alliance, who told me that I should ignore the way in which the media presented the issue as a criticism of the merger of the WTB into the Assembly Government, because they were well aware that the vast majority of the staff who were engaged in the Wales Tourist Board are now working in Visit Wales, and provide the same excellent level of support services to the tourist industry as they did when they were in the quango. They are now merged into the relevant Assembly departments, and part of the administration, where they have much better access to a wider range of economic advice.

Y Prif Weinidog: Ni welais y rhaglen, ond yr wyf wedi’i thrafod gyda chynrychiolwyr y Gynghrair Twristiaeth, a ddywedodd wrthyf y dylwn anwybyddu’r modd y cyflwynodd y cyfryngau’r mater fel beirniadaeth ar uno Bwrdd Croeso Cymru â Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, gan eu bod yn gwybod yn iawn fod y mwyafrif helaeth o’r staff a oedd yn rhan o Fwrdd Croeso Cymru bellach yn gweithio yn Croeso Cymru, ac yn darparu’r un lefel ragorol o wasanaethau cymorth i’r diwydiant ymwelwyr ag a wnaent pan oeddent yn y cwango. Maent bellach yn rhan o’r adrannau perthnasol yn y Cynulliad, ac yn rhan o’r weinyddiaeth, lle y mae ganddynt fynediad gwell o lawer at ystod ehangach o gyngor economaidd.

Peter Black: Irrespective of whether the criticism is of the merger or not, many tourist operators have concerns about the remoteness of Visit Wales and the fact that they do not feel as involved in the promotion of Wales as a tourist destination as they did under the Wales Tourist Board. I understand that your Minister is meeting a number of people about this issue in due course, but what are you doing to address these concerns, and how do you envisage restructuring Visit Wales to make it more accessible and more responsive to the concerns of the tourism industry?

Peter Black: Pa un a ydyw’n feirniadaeth ar yr uno ai peidio, mae llawer o weithredwyr twristiaeth yn pryderu am bellter Croeso Cymru a’r ffaith nad ydynt yn teimlo bod ganddynt gymaint o ran wrth hyrwyddo Cymru fel cyrchfan i ymwelwyr ag a oedd ganddynt dan Fwrdd Croeso Cymru. Yr wyf yn deall y bydd eich Gweinidog yn cwrdd â nifer o bobl ynghylch y mater hwn maes o law, ond beth yr ydych yn ei wneud i ymateb i’r pryderon hyn, a sut yr ydych yn rhagweld y bydd Croeso Cymru yn cael ei ailstrwythuro i’w wneud yn fwy hygyrch ac yn fwy ymatebol i bryderon y diwydiant ymwelwyr?

The First Minister: That assumes that this 'criticism’, as it was packaged by the media, is true in the first place. That is not the impression that I had from my discussion with representatives of the Tourism Alliance. As I said to Nick, the same senior WTB management team, largely, is leading the Visit Wales team, and the vast majority of the Wales Tourist Board marketing staff is now engaged in commissioning marketing activities on behalf of Visit Wales as an in-house agency that is fully part of the Government. We have not lost the experience and expertise of the people and, similarly, apart from the usual changes that you get when you re-tender a service in PR or IT, we still commission the same level of PR and IT activities from the same firms as previously, or from firms of equal expertise.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae hynny’n cymryd bod y 'feirniadaeth’ hon, fel y’i disgrifiwyd gan y cyfryngau, yn wir yn y lle cyntaf. Nid hynny yw’r argraff a gefais yn sgîl fy nhrafodaeth â chynrychiolwyr y Gynghrair Twristiaeth. Fel y dywedais wrth Nick, yr un uwch dîm rheoli ag a oedd ym Mwrdd Croeso Cymru, ar y cyfan, sy’n arwain tîm Croeso Cymru, ac mae’r mwyafrif helaeth o’r staff marchnata ym Mwrdd Croeso Cymru’n ymwneud yn awr â chomisiynu gweithgareddau marchnata ar ran Croeso Cymru fel asiantaeth fewnol sy’n rhan lawn o’r Llywodraeth. Nid ydym wedi colli profiad ac arbenigedd y bobl ac, yn yr un modd, heblaw’r newidiadau a geir fel arfer wrth aildendro gwasanaeth ym maes cysylltiadau cyhoeddus neu TG, yr ydym yn dal i gomisiynu’r un lefel o weithgareddau cysylltiadau cyhoeddus a TG gan yr un cwmnïau ag o’r blaen, neu gan gwmnïau sydd â’r un arbenigedd.

The advantage of the merger is that it simply brought the tourism staff into much closer contact with the full resource available in economic development and so on within the whole of the Assembly Government.

Mantais yr uno yw iddo ddod â’r staff twristiaeth i gysylltiad agosach o lawer â’r adnoddau llawn sydd ar gael o ran datblygu economaidd ac yn y blaen yn Llywodraeth y Cynulliad drwyddi draw.

Gareth Jones: Ynghylch trethi busnes, dylem i gyd gydnabod y gwaith a wnaed a’r cymorth a roddwyd i fusnesau bach hyd yn hyn. Ond wrth i’r dirwasgiad economaidd ddwysáu, a fydd Llywodraeth Cymru’n Un yn ystyried ymestyn ymhellach faint y rhyddhad neu’r gostyngiadau i drethi busnes yng Nghymru, yn enwedig i’r rhai yn Aberconwy, sydd mor ddibynnol ar dwristiaeth am eu bodolaeth, sef y caffis, y tai bwyta, y gwestai a’r siopau bach hynny sy’n gwerthu nwyddau i ymwelwyr?

Y Prif Weinidog: Pan fo dirywiad economaidd fel yr un yr ydym yn ei wynebu yn awr, ambell waith mae’n rhaid derbyn y gnoc gan nad oes unrhyw beth y gallwch ei wneud, ac ambell waith, gallwch weld bod cyfleoedd y tu ôl i’r cwmwl du sydd uwchben yr economi. Mewn twristiaeth, mae cyfle i ddwyn perswâd ar bobl a fyddai, efallai, ym mis Ionawr wedi trefnu gwyliau a gwario £1,000 neu £2,000 ar wyliau gyda’u teulu mewn gwlad estron yn rhywle gyda llawer o haul ym mis Gorffennaf. Efallai na fyddant yn gallu fforddio gwneud hynny, ond y byddant yn fodlon cymryd wythnos o wyliau yng Nghymru yn nes ymlaen a’i fwcio ar y funud olaf. Felly, mae hynny yn gyfle yr ydym yn gorfod ei ystyried er mwyn manteisio ar y cyfleoedd sydd ar gael, hyd yn oed pan fo’r economi ar droad i lawr, neu o achos hynny.

The First Minister: When there is an economic downturn such as the one that we currently face, you sometimes have to accept that there is nothing that you can do, and sometimes you can see that there are opportunities behind the clouds hanging over the economy. In tourism, there is an opportunity to persuade people who would, perhaps, have booked a holiday in January and spent £1,000 or £2,000 on a family holiday abroad, somewhere with a lot of sun, in July. They might not be able to afford to do that, but they could be willing to spend a week in Wales later on in the year, booking it at the last minute. We must give consideration to that opportunity in order to take advantage of the opportunities that present themselves, even when the economy is on a downturn, or even because of that.

2.30 p.m.

Y Llywydd: Trosglwyddwyd cwestiwn 10, OAQ(3)1432(FM), i’w ateb yn ysgrifenedig.

The Presiding Officer: Question 10, OAQ(3)1432(FM), has been transferred for written answer.

Small Businesses

Q11 David Melding: Will the First Minister make a statement on how the Welsh Assembly Government is supporting small businesses in South Wales Central? OAQ(3)1434(FM)

C11 David Melding: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am sut mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn cefnogi busnesau bach yng Nghanol De Cymru? OAQ(3)1434(FM)

The First Minister: Among the measures to which I have already referred—I will refer to it again, as it is such an excellent measure—is the £25 million ReACT programme, which addresses the needs of people who have been made redundant, or are under notice of redundancy. It can provide a £2,000 wage subsidy to encourage employers to recruit those redundant workers, and it can also provide grant support to the upgrading of redundant employees’ skills.  

Y Prif Weinidog: Ymysg y mesurau yr wyf wedi cyfeirio atynt eisoes—cyfeiriaf ato eto, gan ei fod yn fesur mor rhagorol—y mae’r rhaglen ReACT, sy’n werth £25 miliwn, sy’n ymateb i anghenion pobl sydd wedi colli eu swyddi, neu sydd wedi cael rhybudd y bydd eu swyddi’n diflannu. Gall ddarparu cymhorthdal cyflog o £2,000 i annog cyflogwyr i recriwtio’r gweithwyr di-waith hynny, a gall hefyd ddarparu cymorth grant i uwchraddio sgiliau gweithwyr di-waith.

David Melding: First Minister, you will also know that access to finance is crucial for many SMEs, particularly in light of current difficulties. Can you assure us that your Government will ensure that we get a fair share, over the next four years, of the £4 billion that the UK Government has negotiated from Europe? Will you also ensure that banks work hard to lend money at reasonable rates to those businesses that require this type of credit, which businesses have been able to rely on, year in year out, to be productive, efficient and effective?

David Melding: Brif Weinidog, mae’n siŵr eich bod yn gwybod hefyd fod y gallu i gael cyllid yn hollbwysig i lawer o fusnesau bach a chanolig, yn enwedig yn wyneb y trafferthion cyfredol. A allwch roi sicrwydd inni y gwnaiff eich Llywodraeth sicrhau ein bod yn cael cyfran deg, dros y pedair blynedd nesaf, o’r £4 biliwn y mae Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig wedi’i negodi gan Ewrop? A wnewch sicrhau hefyd y bydd banciau’n gweithio’n galed i roi benthyg arian ar gyfraddau rhesymol i’r busnesau y mae arnynt angen y math hwn o gredyd, y mae busnesau wedi gallu dibynnu arno flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn, er mwyn bod yn gynhyrchiol, yn effeithlon ac yn effeithiol?

The First Minister: Yes. There are three things in that regard. The first is that we need to help the UK Government, as the part-owner of most of the big high street banks, to put the maximum pressure on the banks to do what they promised, mainly to restore lending to 2007 levels. If you have any evidence that they will not lend, not to insolvent businesses but to illiquid businesses, we need to see it, so that we can pass it on to the relevant Westminster department.

Y Prif Weinidog: Gwnaf. Mae tri pheth ynglŷn â hynny. Yn gyntaf, mae angen inni helpu Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig, fel rhan-berchennog y rhan fwyaf o fanciau mawr y stryd fawr, i roi’r pwysau mwyaf ar y banciau i wneud yr hyn a addawsant, yn bennaf adfer benthyca i lefelau 2007. Os oes gennych unrhyw dystiolaeth na wnânt roi benthyg, nid i fusnesau ansolfent ond i fusnesau anhylif, mae angen inni ei gweld, er mwyn gallu ei rhoi i’r adran berthnasol yn San Steffan.

Secondly, on the European Investment Bank proposal to lend £1 billion a year for four years to the British high street banks to lend on to small and medium-sized enterprises, we fully expect to get our £50 million a year due share. On top of that, we also have the European Investment Bank JEREMIE scheme, of which we are finalising the details. On top of the £200 million, it would give us another £150 million for slightly different purposes, which would be fed out via Finance Wales, our in-house merchant bank.

The Legislative Programme

Q12 Jenny Randerson: Will the First Minister make a statement on the Welsh Assembly Government’s legislative programme for the next year? OAQ(3)1418(FM)

C12 Jenny Randerson: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am raglen ddeddfwriaethol Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf? OAQ(3)1418(FM)

The First Minister: As you will probably know, the programme was set out in my statement on 15 July and more recently on 21 October, when we debated legislation in the context of delivering the One Wales Government programme. We remain committed to the delivery of that legislative programme.

Y Prif Weinidog: Fel y gwyddoch, mae’n debyg, amlinellwyd y rhaglen yn fy natganiad ar 15 Gorffennaf ac yn fwy diweddar ar 21 Hydref, pryd y buom yn trafod deddfwriaeth yng nghyd-destun cyflawni rhaglen Llywodraeth Cymru’n Un. Yr ydym wedi ymrwymo o hyd i gyflawni’r rhaglen ddeddfwriaethol honno.

Jenny Randerson: First Minister, for the record, you might answer a simple question: which of your planned LCOs for the next year will you be able to deliver?

Jenny Randerson: Brif Weinidog, er mwyn i hynny gael ei gofnodi, efallai yr atebech gwestiwn syml: pa rai o blith eich Gorchmynion cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol arfaethedig ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf y byddwch yn gallu eu cyflawni?

The First Minister: The LCO on the Welsh red meat industry and the Proposed Local Government (Wales) Measure are already undergoing scrutiny. The legislative competence Order on vulnerable children is shortly to be debated in Parliament, which will provide a legal basis for the Measure on child poverty and vulnerable children, which forms part of the programme. The LCOs on additional learning needs and domiciliary care, which were made earlier this year, have given the Assembly the powers to consider two Measures that the Assembly Government will bring forward as part of the 2008-09 programme. The LCO on carers will be the next item in the 2008-09 programme to come forward.

The First Minister: Mae’r Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol ynghylch diwydiant cig coch Cymru a’r Mesur Arfaethedig ynghylch Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru) eisoes yn destun craffu. Bydd dadl Seneddol cyn hir ar y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol ynghylch plant agored i niwed, a fydd yn darparu sail gyfreithiol i’r Mesur ar dlodi plant a phlant agored i niwed, sy’n rhan o’r rhaglen. Mae’r Gorchmynion ar anghenion dysgu ychwanegol a gofal cartref, a wnaethpwyd yn gynharach eleni, wedi rhoi grym i’r Cynulliad ystyried dau Fesur y bydd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn eu cyflwyno fel rhan o raglen 2008-09. Y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol ynghylch gofalwyr fydd yr eitem nesaf yn rhaglen 2008-09 i gael ei chyflwyno.

Jonathan Morgan: First Minister, in about 20 or 30 years’ time, we will have much higher rates of liver cirrhosis and obesity, unless radical action is taken by not only the Assembly Government but also by Governments across the United Kingdom and western Europe. In light of this and in light of a variety of areas within public health with which we should be dealing, will the Government consider bringing forward a public health Measure?

Jonathan Morgan: Brif Weinidog, ymhen rhyw 20 neu 30 o flynyddoedd, bydd gennym gyfraddau llawer uwch o galedwch yr afu a gordewdra, os na wneir rhywbeth radical nid yn unig gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad ond hefyd gan Lywodraethau ledled y Deyrnas Unedig a gorllewin Ewrop. Yn wyneb hyn ac yn wyneb nifer o feysydd o fewn iechyd cyhoeddus y dylem fod yn delio â hwy, a wnaiff y Llywodraeth ystyried cyflwyno Mesur iechyd cyhoeddus?

The First Minister: Public health is an incredibly important aspect of health as a whole, but it spreads across the whole of Government to the schools system, playing fields, the culture that we have all seen in which the biggest threat to the actuarial longevity of the rising generation of children, paediatricians tell us, may result in this generation of children being the first for centuries to live shorter lives than their parents and grandparents. We must try to ward that off, if we can, by trying to change the culture from overuse of the remote control, the personal computer and the PlayStation, back to some of the activities that most of us enjoyed in childhood, when we rode around on bikes, climbed trees or played football and so on all day long, and when a hamburger was a treat for Christmas rather than something that you had twice a week. It is important that people make this connection, which is why the foundation phase and free school breakfasts are of huge importance.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae iechyd cyhoeddus yn agwedd anhygoel o bwysig ar iechyd yn gyffredinol, ond mae’n ymledu ar draws y cyfan o’r Llywodraeth i’r system ysgolion, caeau chwarae, y diwylliant yr ydym i gyd wedi’i weld lle gall y bygythiad mwyaf i hirhoedledd y to o blant sy’n codi, yn ôl y paediatregwyr, olygu mai’r genhedlaeth hon o blant fydd y gyntaf ers canrifoedd i fyw bywydau byrrach na’u rhieni a’u neiniau a’u teidiau. Rhaid inni geisio atal hynny, os gallwn, drwy geisio troi’r diwylliant oddi wrth orddefnyddio’r teclyn newid sianel, y cyfrifiadur personol a’r PlayStation, yn ôl at rai o’r gweithgareddau a fwynhaodd y rhan fwyaf ohonom ni yn ein plentyndod, pryd yr arferem fynd o gwmpas ar gefn beic, dringo coed neu chwarae pêl-droed ac ati drwy’r dydd, a phan oedd hambyrgyr yn rhywbeth amheuthun ar gyfer y Nadolig yn hytrach na rhywbeth y byddech yn ei fwyta ddwywaith yr wythnos. Mae’n bwysig i bobl ddeall y cysylltiad hwn, a dyna pam y mae’r cyfnod sylfaen a brecwast am ddim mewn ysgolion yn aruthrol o bwysig.

Y Llywydd: Trosglwyddwyd cwestiwn 13, OAQ(3)1436(FM), i’w ateb yn ysgrifenedig.

The Presiding Officer: Question 13, OAQ(3)1436(FM), has been tansferred for written answer.

Activities for Pensioners

Q14 Val Lloyd: Will the First Minister make a statement on the provision of activities for pensioners? OAQ(3)1426(FM)

C14 Val Lloyd: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am ddarparu gweithgareddau ar gyfer pensiynwyr? OAQ(3)1426(FM)

The First Minister: It is not just about young people. I entirely agree that obesity and lack of opportunities for activities are a problem for many generations. It is more acute for children, because they still need to develop their heart and lung functions, but for pensioners, it is a huge assistance to maintaining their independence and their ability to live outside of hospital or of having to receive nursing care in old people’s homes.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid pobl ifanc yw’r unig rai dan sylw. Cytunaf yn llwyr fod gordewdra a diffyg cyfleon ar gyfer gweithgareddau yn broblem i fwy nag un genhedlaeth. Mae’n waeth i blant, oherwydd y mae angen o hyd iddynt hwy ddatblygu gweithrediad eu calon a’u hysgyfaint, ond i bensiynwyr, mae’n gymorth enfawr i gynnal eu hannibyniaeth a’u gallu i fyw y tu allan i’r ysbyty neu heb orfod cael gofal nyrsio mewn cartrefi henoed.

Jeff Cuthbert: In terms of activities for older people, First Minister, do you support, as I do, the initiative of Age Concern Cymru together with the Countryside Council for Wales, with sponsorship from Lidl, which is encouraging older people to take part in Nordic walking by providing cut-price Nordic walking poles in order to encourage them to take part in basic exercise activity?

Jeff Cuthbert: O ran gweithgareddau i bobl hŷn, Brif Weinidog, a gefnogwch, fel y gwnaf fi, fenter Age Concern Cymru ynghyd â’r Cyngor Cefn Gwlad, gyda nawdd gan Lidl, sy’n annog pobl hŷn i gymryd rhan mewn cerdded Llychlynnaidd drwy ddarparu polion cerdded Llychlynnaidd am bris rhad er mwyn eu hannog i gymryd rhan mewn gweithgaredd ymarfer corff sylfaenol?

The First Minister: I have never used the poles personally, but I am told that they give all four quadrants of the body a massive exercise. I know that the Finns swear by them as a way of improving their public health, in which they have seen massive improvements. They say that Nordic walking is the thing, but it also goes back to culture change. I would feel self-conscious about doing it, but I have been with people who have overcome their self-consciousness to use them, and they swear by them and think that they are wonderful. They develop your upper body as well as your legs.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid wyf erioed wedi defnyddio’r polion fy hun, ond dywedir wrthyf eu bod yn rhoi ymarfer aruthrol i bedwar pedrant y corff. Gwn fod y Ffiniaid yn credu’n gryf ynddynt fel ffordd i wella’u hiechyd cyhoeddus, lle y maent wedi gweld gwelliannau aruthrol. Maent yn canmol cerdded Llychlynnaidd, ond mae a wnelo â newid diwylliant hefyd. Byddwn i’n teimlo’n hunanymwybodol yn ei wneud, ond yr wyf wedi bod gyda phobl sydd wedi goresgyn eu swildod i’w defnyddio, ac maent yn credu’n gryf ynddynt ac yn meddwl eu bod yn rhyfeddol. Maent yn datblygu rhan uchaf eich corff yn ogystal â’ch coesau.

The Presiding Officer: Val Lloyd, you are due a supplementary question. I have not forgotten you.

Y Llywydd: Val Lloyd, yr ydych i fod i gael cwestiwn atodol. Nid wyf wedi anghofio amdanoch.

Val Lloyd: Thank you, Presiding Officer. First Minister, to take you back to my original question, which was on the provision of activities for pensioners, I have been approached by a number of retired constituents who feel that they are not only disadvantaged financially at that time of life, but that they have a reduced quality of life. You talked about the young; advertising, in general, is aimed at the young, and pensioners largely feel isolated from indulging in recreational activities, because of their age. What is the Welsh Assembly Government doing to promote recreational activities for older people and what initiatives are proposed to raise the status of older people in the community?

Val Lloyd: Diolch, Lywydd. Brif Weinidog, a mynd â chi’n ôl at fy nghwestiwn gwreiddiol, sef ynglŷn â darparu gweithgareddau i bensiynwyr, mae nifer o etholwyr wedi ymddeol wedi dod ataf i ddweud eu bod yn teimlo eu bod nid yn unig dan anfantais ariannol ar yr adeg hon yn eu bywyd, ond bod ansawdd eu bywyd wedi gwaethygu hefyd. Soniasoch am yr ifanc; mae hysbysebu, yn gyffredinol, wedi’i anelu at yr ifanc, a bydd pensiynwyr i raddau helaeth yn teimlo eu bod wedi’u hynysu oddi wrth weithgareddau hamdden, oherwydd eu hoed. Beth y mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn ei wneud i hybu gweithgareddau hamdden i bobl hŷn a pha fentrau a gynigir i godi statws pobl hŷn yn y gymuned?

The First Minister: GPs can now refer you to a leisure centre, if they believe that you are at threat of diabetes from being overweight and so on. I have also been to see the demonstration of schemes through which, if you are in an at-risk group—in other words, if you have had a little problem with your heart, lungs or incipient diabetes or whatever—you are referred to a walking group or a cooking and grocery group to ensure that you buy the right food and that you grill it instead of frying it and so on. That is all part of the package of trying to get people to realise what they can do, as I have done over the last 15 months—I have lived through this process, and I would recommend it to anyone. If you are in an at-risk group, you need to take sensible care of yourself; I know that Jeff would say the same thing in terms of his diabetes. How you look after yourself can make an enormous difference in extending your life and extending your enjoyment of it.

Y Prif Weinidog: Gall meddygon teulu bellach eich cyfeirio at ganolfan hamdden, os credant fod perygl ichi gael diabetes am eich bod yn rhy drwm, ac yn y blaen. Yr wyf hefyd wedi bod yn gweld cyflwyno cynlluniau sydd yn eich cyfeirio at grŵp cerdded neu grŵp coginio a bwyd i sicrhau eich bod yn prynu’r bwyd iawn a’i roi dan y gril yn lle ei ffrio, ac yn y blaen, os ydych mewn grŵp risg—hynny yw, os ydych wedi cael problem fach gyda’ch calon, eich ysgyfaint neu ddiabetes neu beth bynnag y bo. Mae hynny i gyd yn rhan o’r pecyn i geisio cael pobl i sylweddoli beth y gallant ei wneud, fel yr wyf finnau wedi gwneud yn y 15 mis diwethaf—yr wyf wedi byw drwy’r broses hon, ac fe’i hargymhellwn i unrhyw un. Os ydych mewn grŵp risg, mae angen ichi ofalu’n gall amdanoch eich hun; gwn y byddai Jeff yn dweud yr un peth yng nghyd-destun ei ddiabetes. Gall y modd y gofalwch amdanoch eich hun wneud gwahaniaeth enfawr o ran ymestyn eich oes ac ymestyn eich mwynhad o fywyd.

The Payment of Invoices

Talu Anfonebau

Q15 Darren Millar: Will the First Minister make a statement on what proportion of invoices for goods and services procured by the Welsh Assembly Government from small and medium-sized businesses were paid within 30 days of receipt? OAQ(3)1429(FM)

C15 Darren Millar: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ynghylch pa gyfran o anfonebau am nwyddau a gwasanaethau a brynodd Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru oddi wrth fusnesau bach a chanolig eu maint a gafodd eu talu cyn pen 30 diwrnod o’u derbyn? OAQ(3)1429(FM)

The First Minister: Our policy is to pay all valid invoices upon receipt, and we will move progressively, step by step, to monitor our performance against a 10-day target. Initially, we want to ensure that no-one is outside the 30-day target, then it will be 20 days and then 10 days—as quickly as is practicably possible.

Y Prif Weinidog: Ein polisi yw talu pob anfoneb ddilys yn syth pan ddaw i law, a symudwn yn raddol, fesul cam, i fonitro ein perfformiad yn erbyn targed o 10 diwrnod. I ddechrau, mae arnom eisiau sicrhau nad oes neb y tu allan i’r targed o 30 diwrnod, wedyn bydd yn 20 diwrnod ac wedyn 10 diwrnod—cyn gynted ag sy’n ymarferol bosibl.

2.40 p.m.

Darren Millar: Like many Assembly Members, I welcomed the announcement, following the economic summit a few weeks ago, to reduce the timescale within which small and medium-sized businesses in particular are paid by the Assembly Government. However, what are you doing, as the Assembly Government, to ensure that Assembly Government sponsored bodies are also on a clear drive to turn around their invoice payments more quickly? How do you envisage being able to support them in that process?

Darren Millar: Fel llawer o Aelodau’r Cynulliad, croesewais y cyhoeddiad, yn dilyn yr uwchgynhadledd economaidd ychydig wythnosau’n ôl, i leihau’r amser a gymer Llywodraeth y Cynulliad i dalu i fusnesau bach a chanolig yn enwedig. Fodd bynnag, beth yr ydych yn ei wneud, fel Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, i sicrhau bod cyrff a noddir gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad hwythau’n mynd ati i dalu eu hanfonebau yn gyflymach? Sut y rhagwelwch y byddwch yn gallu eu cefnogi hwythau yn y broses honno?

Y Prif Weinidog: Er gwaethaf yr hyn y mae eich plaid wedi ymdrechu i’w wneud, nid oes fawr o gwangos ar ôl inni roi gorchmynion iddynt. Fodd bynnag, mae’r cyfarwyddwr cyllid ac Ann Lloyd, swyddog cyfrifyddu’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, wedi ysgrifennu at bob un o gyrff y Llywodraeth, gan gynnwys ymddiriedolaethau’r GIG a byrddau iechyd lleol, i’w cael i dalu’n gyflymach pryd bynnag y mae hynny’n bosibl. Os oes problemau ynghylch anfoneb arbennig—hen broblem manylyn nad yw’n hollol iawn—rhaid iddynt sicrhau eu bod yn cysylltu’n fuan â’r sawl sy’n disgwyl tâl i esbonio eu bod wedi anghofio llenwi rhan o’r ffurflen, llofnodi’r ddogfen neu beth bynnag y bo, a gofyn iddynt ei hanfon yn ôl yn gyflym fel y gellir talu iddynt cyn gynted ag y mae popeth wedi’i gwblhau’n iawn.

The Presiding Officer: I have accepted two urgent questions to the Deputy First Minister and Minister for the Economy and Transport, which I have grouped.

Brynle Williams: Will the Minister make a statement on the recently announced Corus job losses at Shotton? EAQ(3)0776(ECT)

Brynle Williams: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar y cyhoeddiad diweddar ynghylch colli swyddi yng nghwmni Corus yn Shotton? EAQ(3)0776(ECT)

The Deputy First Minister and Minister for the Economy and Transport (Ieuan Wyn Jones): On 7 November, as a result of difficult market conditions, Corus Living Solutions, a business that designs, manufactures and constructs modular building systems at Shotton, announced that, from February 2009, it would revert from a two-shift to a single shift operation, with the resulting loss of 95 full-time employees.

Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth (Ieuan Wyn Jones): Ar 7 Tachwedd, o ganlyniad i amodau anodd y farchnad, cyhoeddodd Corus Living Solutions, busnes sy’n dylunio, cynhyrchu ac adeiladu systemau adeiladu modwlar yn Shotton, y byddai, o fis Chwefror 2009, yn newid yn ôl o weithio dwy sifft i weithio un sifft, gan golli 95 o weithwyr llawnamser yn sgîl hynny.

Brynle Williams: I am sure that everyone here will join me in expressing concern about the job losses in north Wales and Wales in general. What assurances can you give the workers recently made redundant from the Corus site about resources for retraining? In light of the contraction of the steel industry, will you assure me that you will have discussions with Corus about the utilisation of surplus space for new businesses at the Shotton site? As I said, the steel industry is contracting; we have an ideal site with many large redundant buildings that I understand could be utilised.

Brynle Williams: Yr wyf yn siŵr y gwnaiff pawb yma ymuno â mi i fynegi pryder ynghylch y colli swyddi yn y gogledd ac yng Nghymru’n gyffredinol. Pa sicrwydd y gallwch ei roi i’r gweithwyr a gollodd eu swyddi’n ddiweddar yng ngwaith Corus ynglŷn ag adnoddau ar gyfer ailhyfforddi? Yn wyneb y crebachu yn y diwydiant dur, a wnewch fy sicrhau y byddwch yn trafod gyda Corus ynghylch defnyddio lle sydd dros ben ar gyfer busnesau newydd ar safle Shotton? Fel y dywedais, mae’r diwydiant dur yn crebachu; mae gennym safle delfrydol gyda llawer o adeiladau mawr segur y gellid eu defnyddio, yn ôl a ddeallaf.

On the wider situation in north-east Wales, hundreds of jobs have been lost in recent weeks, as you yourself said last week, Minister—this has affected David McLean Contractors Ltd and Ifor Williams Trailers Ltd, and, yesterday, First Milk announced that 93 jobs will be lost. There are talks of this affecting Kingspan and several other companies too. What progress are you making in encouraging the banks to once again start lending at a more attractive rate? I raised last week the issue of rates being between 4 and 6 per cent. Businesses cannot survive on those sorts of interest rates.

O ran y sefyllfa ehangach yn y gogledd-ddwyrain, mae cannoedd o swyddi wedi’u colli yn yr wythnosau diwethaf, fel y dywedasoch eich hun yr wythnos diwethaf, Weinidog—mae hyn wedi effeithio ar David McLean Contractors Cyf ac Ifor Williams Trailers Cyf, a, ddoe, cyhoeddodd First Milk y collir 93 o swyddi. Mae sôn y gall hyn effeithio ar Kingspan ac amryw o gwmnïau erailll hefyd. Sut hwyl yr ydych yn ei gael o ran annog y banciau i ddechrau rhoi benthyg ar gyfradd fwy deniadol unwaith eto? Codais yr wythnos diwethaf y broblem bod cyfraddau rhwng 4 a 6 y cant. Ni all busnesau oroesi pan fydd cyfraddau llog o’r fath.

The Deputy First Minister: On the issue of Corus, my officials are in touch with the company on a fairly regular basis, seeing what we can do to help the company to overcome its current difficulties as a result of the economic downturn as well as doing what they can to assist the workers who are unfortunately affected in relation to their jobs. We were obviously disappointed to hear the Corus Living Solutions announcement, and I can say that a full consultation is now under way. During this very difficult period, our thoughts are with those affected, and we will do what we can to minimise the impact. This should not take away from the fact that Corus has told us that it has a strong commitment to the Shotton site. The First Minister was recently at the site to make significant investment announcements, which augur well for the future, once we have come through these economic difficulties.

Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog: O ran Corus, mae fy swyddogion mewn cysylltiad â’r cwmni yn weddol reolaidd, i weld beth y gallwn ei wneud i helpu’r cwmni i oresgyn ei drafferthion presennol yn sgîl y dirywiad economaidd yn ogystal â gwneud yr hyn a allant i helpu’r gweithwyr yr effeithir arnynt yn anffodus o ran eu swyddi. Yn amlwg yr oeddem yn siomedig o glywed cyhoeddiad Corus Living Solutions, a gallaf ddweud bod ymgynghoriad llawn ar droed yn awr. Yn ystod y cyfnod dyrys iawn hwn, mae ein meddyliau gyda’r rhai yr effeithir arnynt, a gwnawn hynny a allwn i leihau’r effaith. Ni ddylai hyn amharu dim ar y ffaith bod Corus wedi dweud wrthym fod ganddo ymrwymiad cryf i safle Shotton. Bu’r Prif Weinidog ar y safle’n ddiweddar i wneud cyhoeddiadau o bwys ynglŷn â buddsoddiad, sydd yn argoeli’n dda ar gyfer y dyfodol, wedi inni oroesi’r anawsterau economaidd hyn.

On the wider issue that you mentioned, I and/or my officials have been in touch with the affected companies or the workforce, and we are doing what we can to minimise the impact on them. You rightly point out that the issue of the banks and the financing of businesses is key, particularly for small and medium-sized enterprises. I heard the exchange earlier between David Melding and the First Minister. We are doing what we can in conjunction with the UK Government to press banks to ensure that they provide adequate credit facilities to all our small and medium-sized enterprises.

Ynglŷn â’r mater ehangach a grybwyllwyd gennych, yr wyf fi a/neu fy swyddogion wedi bod mewn cysylltiad â’r cwmnïau yr effeithir arnynt neu â’r gweithlu, ac yr ydym yn gwneud yr hyn a allwn i leihau’r effaith arnynt. Yr ydych yn tanlinellu yn gwbl briodol fod mater y banciau a chyllido busnesau yn allweddol, yn enwedig i fusnesau bach a chanolig. Clywais y trafod yn gynharach rhwng David Melding a’r Prif Weinidog. Yr ydym yn gwneud yr hyn a allwn ar y cyd â Llywodraeth y DU i bwyso ar y banciau i sicrhau eu bod yn darparu cyfleusterau credyd digonol i’n holl fusnesau bach a chanolig.

William Graham: Will the Minister make a statement concerning the impact upon the economy of South Wales East arising from over 200 job losses in Tredegar, Gilwern near Abergavenny and Cross Keys near Newport, announced in the week ending 8 November 2008? EAQ(3)0777(ECT)

William Graham: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am sut y bydd colli mwy na 200 o swyddi yn Nhredegar, Gilwern ger y Fenni, a Crosskeys ger Casnewydd, a gyhoeddwyd yn ystod yr wythnos a ddaeth i ben ar 8 Tachwedd 2008, yn effeithio ar economi Dwyrain De Cymru? EAQ(3)0777(ECT)

The Deputy First Minister: It is not yet clear how many jobs may be lost within these companies. My officials are in discussions to ascertain the exact position and to identify what help we can offer.

Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog: Nid yw’n glir eto faint o swyddi a gaiff eu colli efallai yn y cwmnïau hyn. Mae fy swyddogion mewn trafodaethau i ganfod yr union sefyllfa ac i ganfod pa gymorth y gallwn ei gynnig.

William Graham: Thank you for your answer, Deputy First Minister. I understand from the press that Northern Automotive Systems Ltd in Gilwern has announced 99 redundancies, 97 jobs will be lost at Wacker Construction Equipment AG in Tredegar, and 35 jobs will be lost at Corus Colorsteels in Cross Keys. Deputy First Minister, you will know that not only are these specialist manufacturing jobs, they are also well paid and are a great loss to the community. You will also know that economic commentators make the point that, for each job of this kind lost, four consequential jobs will be lost to the local economy. The result, therefore, is the loss of nearly 1,000 jobs in one week. Hopefully, this is not the beginning of mass unemployment in south-east Wales. Can you confirm that you have engaged with companies and will take every opportunity to sustain our current level of employment? In particular, will you consider the impact of business rates on competitor companies in Wales?

William Graham: Diolch am eich ateb, Ddirprwy Brif Weinidog. Deallaf gan y wasg fod Northern Automotive Systems Cyf yng Ngilwern wedi cyhoeddi 99 o ddiswyddiadau, y bydd 97 o swyddi’n cael eu colli yn Wacker Construction Equipment AG yn Nhredegar, ac y collir 35 o swyddi yn Corus Colorsteels yn Cross Keys. Ddirprwy Brif Weinidog, byddwch yn gwybod bod y rhain nid yn unig yn swyddi gweithgynhyrchu arbenigol, ond eu bod hefyd yn talu’n dda ac maent yn golled fawr i’r gymuned. Byddwch yn gwybod hefyd fod sylwebyddion economaidd yn gwneud y pwynt, am bob swydd o’r math hwn a gollir, y collir pedair swydd i’r economi leol yn sgîl hynny. Y canlyniad, felly, yw colli bron 1,000 o swyddi mewn wythnos. Gobeithio nad yw hyn yn ddechrau ar ddiweithdra torfol yn y de-ddwyrain. A allwch gadarnhau eich bod wedi cysylltu â’r cwmnïau ac y byddwch yn achub pob cyfle i gynnal ein lefel bresennol o gyflogaeth? Yn benodol, a wnewch ystyried effaith ardrethi busnes ar fusnesau sy’n cystadlu yng Nghymru?

The Deputy First Minister: I have also read the press reports, and, as you would expect, we have been in direct contact with the companies. In certain cases, those companies have announced only the commencement of the consultation period and have not confirmed the number of job losses, although it is in the range that you mentioned. That will form part of the discussion during the consultation. You mentioned three companies. We have made contact with two of them, and are working with them, but, in the case of Wacker Neuson in Tredegar, there has been some difficulty with contacting the company. However, I can assure you that my officials are working hard to try to contact the company to see what help we can offer.

Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog: Yr wyf finnau wedi darllen yr adroddiadau yn y wasg, ac, fel y byddech yn disgwyl, yr ydym wedi bod mewn cysylltiad uniongyrchol â’r cwmnïau. Mewn rhai achosion, nid yw’r cwmnïau hynny ond wedi cyhoeddi dechrau’r cyfnod ymgynghori ac nid ydynt wedi cadarnhau  nifer y swyddi a gollir, er bod y ffigurau a grybwyllasoch yn eithaf agos ati. Bydd hynny’n rhan o’r drafodaeth yn ystod yr ymgynghori. Soniasoch am dri chwmni. Yr ydym wedi cysylltu â dau ohonynt, ac yr ydym yn gweithio gyda hwy, ond, yn achos Wacker Neuson yn Nhredegar, cafwyd rhywfaint o anhawster wrth gysylltu â’r cwmni. Fodd bynnag, gallaf eich sicrhau bod fy swyddogion yn gweithio’n galed i geisio cysylltu â’r cwmni i weld pa help y gallwn ei gynnig.

Using the phrase 'mass unemployment’ may be overstating the case significantly. We are going through quite a difficult period, but the number of people joining the unemployment register is not in any way comparable with that seen during previous recessions. That is not to say that this is not a serious situation, but we ought to be careful about the phrases that we use.

Efallai fod defnyddio’r ymadrodd 'diweithdra torfol’ yn gorliwio’r sefyllfa’n sylweddol. Yr ydym yn mynd drwy gyfnod digon anodd, ond nid yw nifer y bobl sy’n ymuno â’r gofrestr diweithdra i’w gymharu o gwbl â’r hyn a welwyd yn ystod dirwasgiadau blaenorol. Nid yw hynny’n golygu nad yw hon yn sefyllfa ddifrifol, ond dylem fod yn ofalus ynglŷn â’r ymadroddion a ddefnyddiwn.

You will know that the issue of business rates was raised at the first and second economic summits. We are in discussions with the UK Government on this, particularly with regard to empty property rates. We have promised to look at what help we can give with the business rates.

Byddwch yn gwybod bod mater ardrethi busnes wedi cael ei godi yn yr uwchgynhadledd economaidd gyntaf a’r ail. Yr ydym yn cynnal trafodaethau gyda Llywodraeth y DU ynglŷn â hyn, yn enwedig o ran yr ardrethi ar eiddo gwag. Yr ydym wedi addo ystyried pa help y gallwn ei roi gyda’r ardrethi busnes.

Carl Sargeant: Deputy First Minister, I am sure that you share my disappointment regarding the job losses at the Shotton Corus plant. I had a meeting with the management at Shotton last week and another this week regarding those job losses. I am a member of both the Unite and Community unions, and many of their members will be affected by this announcement. I ask you to do two things. First, will you and your officials seek to support any members of the workforce affected by these job cuts? I also ask you to consider the possibility of working with local authorities and the Assembly to maximise your land use, with the possible option of using Corus’s Living Solutions package to help with the current difficulties in the housing market. The workforce at Corus faces troubling times and, even though the company has recently made a major commitment to, and investment in, the Shotton plant, I am sure that we are all concerned about the future, particularly those working on Living Solutions.

Carl Sargeant: Ddirprwy Brif Weinidog, yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod chi, fel yr wyf finnau, yn siomedig ynglŷn â’r colli swyddi yn ffatri Corus yn Shotton. Cefais gyfarfod â’r rheolwyr yn Shotton yr wythnos diwethaf ac un arall yr wythnos hon ynglŷn â cholli’r swyddi hynny. Yr wyf yn aelod o undebau Unite a Community, a bydd y cyhoeddiad hwn yn effeithio ar lawer o’u haelodau. Gofynnaf ichi wneud dau beth. Yn gyntaf, a wnewch chi a’ch swyddogion geisio cefnogi unrhyw aelodau o’r gweithlu yr effeithir arnynt yn sgîl colli’r swyddi hyn? Gofynnaf hefyd ichi ystyried y posibilrwydd y gellir gweithio gydag awdurdodau lleol a’r Cynulliad i gynyddu eich defnydd tir i’r eithaf, gyda’r opsiwn posibl o ddefnyddio pecyn Corus Living Solutions i helpu gyda’r anawsterau presennol yn y farchnad dai. Mae gweithlu Corus yn wynebu cyfnod anodd ac, er bod y cwmni wedi gwneud ymrwymiad mawr yn ddiweddar i ffatri Shotton, a buddsoddiad ynddi, yr wyf yn siŵr ein bod i gyd yn bryderus ynglŷn â’r dyfodol, yn enwedig y rhai sy’n gweithio ar Living Solutions.

2.50 p.m.

The Deputy First Minister: I can confirm that my officials are working with the company and with the workforce to see what support we can give. We always try to do that under such circumstances as these. Although I understand that it is difficult for those who are likely to be affected by the decision, we must accept that this situation, in a company such as Corus, has nothing to do with the workforce in Shotton, rather with world trading conditions. It is important to stress that on the record.

Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog: Gallaf gadarnhau bod fy swyddogion yn gweithio gyda’r cwmni a’r gweithlu i weld pa gymorth y gallwn ei roi. Yr ydym wastad yn ceisio gwneud hynny o dan amgylchiadau fel y rhain. Er fy mod yn deall ei bod yn anodd i’r rhai y mae’r penderfyniad hwn yn debygol o effeithio arnynt, rhaid inni dderbyn nad oes a wnelo’r sefyllfa hon, mewn cwmni fel Corus, ddim â’r gweithlu yn Shotton, mae a wnelo yn hytrach ag amodau masnachu ar draws y byd. Mae’n bwysig pwysleisio hynny ar goedd.

On the use of land and discussions with local authorities, I will take that point away and consider it with my officials, and then write to you to explain what we can do in those circumstances. I will place a copy of that letter in the Library, given the considerable interest in the matter from Members across the Chamber.

O ran defnyddio tir a thrafodaethau ag awdurdodau lleol, af ati i ystyried y pwynt hwnnw gyda’m swyddogion, ac ysgrifennaf atoch wedyn i esbonio beth y gallwn ei wneud o dan yr amgylchiadau hynny. Rhoddaf gopi o’r llythyr hwnnw yn y Llyfrgell, oherwydd y diddordeb sylweddol yn y mater o du Aelodau ar draws y Siambr.

Kirsty Williams: Thank you, Deputy First Minister, for answering those questions and for the meeting that we had this morning.

Kirsty Williams: Diolch ichi, Ddirprwy Brif Weinidog, am ateb y cwestiynau hynny ac am y cyfarfod a gawsom y bore yma.

At this time, every single job lost is to be regretted. In similar situations previously, the Assembly has stepped in to assist local authorities and individual businesses with cross-agency working. However, with the number of redundancies coming through thick and fast and given the number of companies that you have to deal with across Wales, the ability of your department, and other agencies, to cope will be put under some strain. How do you intend to tackle these situations in your department so that companies and individuals get the support that they deserve and desperately need, and which they would have had were it an isolated incident?

Ar hyn o bryd, mae pob swydd a gollir yn destun gofid. Mewn sefyllfaoedd cyffelyb o’r blaen, mae’r Cynulliad wedi camu i mewn i helpu awdurdodau lleol a busnesau unigol gydag ymdrechion rhyngasiantaethol. Fodd bynnag, oherwydd nifer y diswyddiadau sy’n dod ar ein gwarthaf mor gyflym ac o  ystyried nifer y cwmnïau y mae’n rhaid ichi ddelio â hwy ledled Cymru, bydd peth straen ar allu eich adran chi, ac asiantaethau eraill, i ymdopi. Sut yr ydych yn bwriadu mynd i’r afael â’r sefyllfaoedd hyn yn eich adran fel bod cwmnïau ac unigolion yn cael y cymorth y maent yn ei haeddu ac y mae dirfawr angen iddynt ei gael, ac y byddent wedi’i gael petai’n ddigwyddiad ar ei ben ei hun?

Secondly, I raised with you last week the possibility of assisting companies to keep staff on, rather than laying them off, by moving them away from production roles into a period of training. In that way, their skills would not be lost to the company, the company would be supported through this hopefully brief difficult time, and those individuals could upgrade their skills. Can you give us an update on whether any of the companies in the North Wales or the South Wales East regions could be assisted in that way, and on whether you can take that idea forward? I understand that it is also an idea being put forward by manufacturing companies in Wales.

Yn ail, codais gyda chi yr wythnos diwethaf y posibilrwydd y gellir helpu cwmnïau i gadw’u staff, yn hytrach na’u diswyddo dros dro, drwy eu symud o rolau cynhyrchu i gyfnod o hyfforddiant. Drwy wneud hynny, ni fyddai’r cwmni’n colli eu sgiliau, byddai’r cwmni’n cael cymorth yn ystod y cyfnod anodd hwn a fydd, gobeithio, yn fyr, a gallai’r unigolion hynny uwchraddio’u sgiliau. A allwch roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf ynghylch a fyddai modd i unrhyw rai o’r cwmnïau yn rhanbarthau Gogledd Cymru neu Ddwyrain De Cymru gael eu cynorthwyo felly, ac a allwch roi’r syniad hwnnw ar waith? Deallaf ei fod hefyd yn syniad sy’n cael ei gyflwyno gan gwmnïau gweithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru.

It is obvious to me that the period that we are entering into will not be over quickly. What is your department’s forecast of job losses in Wales over the next 12 months? How is that being reflected in any changes that you are making to the longer-term policies that you are looking at—that is, for the next 12 months, and not just this week?

Mae’n amlwg i mi na fydd y cyfnod yr ydym yn dechrau arno’n dod i ben yn gyflym. Beth yw rhagolygon eich adran o ran y swyddi a gollir yn ystod y 12 mis nesaf yng Nghymru? Sut y mae hynny’n cael ei adlewyrchu mewn unrhyw newidiadau yr ydych yn eu gwneud yn y polisïau tymor hwy yr ydych yn edrych arnynt—hynny yw, ar gyfer y 12 mis nesaf, nid dim ond yr wythnos hon?

I know that the wheels of government move slowly. However, in your statement last week, you said that we would have to wait for the second economic summit to get an update from you. However, this morning, it became clear that some of your aspirations will not be achieved this side of Christmas, and that you intend to hold further summits. Can you give us some indication of when your aspirations will be realised for companies? I know that the Government has ideas and a plan, but it would be reassuring for us all to know when that plan might come to fruition, for the benefit of many of these areas.

Gwn fod olwynion llywodraeth yn symud yn araf. Fodd bynnag, yn eich datganiad yr wythnos diwethaf, dywedasoch y byddai’n  rhaid inni aros tan yr ail uwchgynhadledd economaidd i gael diweddariad gennych. Fodd bynnag, y bore yma, daeth yn amlwg na chaiff rhai o’ch dyheadau eu gwireddu cyn y Nadolig, a’ch bod yn bwriadu cynnal uwchgynadleddau eraill. A allwch roi rhyw syniad inni pryd y caiff eich dyheadau eu gwireddu ar gyfer cwmnïau? Gwn fod gan y Llywodraeth syniadau a chynllun, ond byddai’n tawelu meddyliau pawb ohonom petaem yn gwybod pryd y gallai’r cynllun hwnnw’n gael ei weithredu, er lles llawer o’r ardaloedd hyn.

The Deputy First Minister: I will deal with those points in order. First, you asked about the pressures on my staff in dealing with the number of redundancies that are now occurring. Our programme is that, normally, each company, if it is of a significant size, has a relationship manager and/or account manager, and so we can respond quite quickly to events through them. If there is any need for us to supplement that response with additional resources, we will consider doing so, but I am currently satisfied that we have sufficient resources.

Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog: Deliaf â’r pwyntiau hyn yn eu trefn. Yn gyntaf, gofynasoch am y pwysau ar fy staff wrth ddelio â nifer y diswyddiadau sy’n digwydd erbyn hyn. Ein rhaglen, fel arfer, yw bod gan bob cwmni, os yw’n gwmni mawr, reolwr cysylltiadau a/neu reolwr cyfrif, ac felly gallwn ymateb yn eithaf cyflym i ddigwyddiadau drwyddynt. Os oes angen inni ddarparu adnoddau ychwanegol heblaw’r ymateb hwnnw, byddwn yn ystyried gwneud hynny, ond yr wyf yn argyhoeddedig ar hyn o bryd fod gennym adnoddau digonol.

Secondly, you made the important point that a number of companies are waiting to see how deep the recession is before shedding its workforce, because it wants to retain those skills when the upturn comes, whenever that may be. We have been in discussions with the Wales manufacturing health and safety forum, which, as you indicated, represents the manufacturing sector, and it has asked us to look at what we can do to assist it. We have promised to give serious consideration to that, and we repeated that promise at the second economic summit held in St Asaph last week.

Yn ail, gwnaethoch y pwynt pwysig bod nifer o gwmnïau’n disgwyl i weld pa mor ddwfn yw’r dirwasgiad cyn cael gwared â’u gweithlu, oherwydd y maent am gadw’r sgiliau hynny pan fydd yr economi’n cryfhau, pryd bynnag y bydd hynny. Yr ydym wedi cynnal trafodaethau gyda fforwm iechyd a diogelwch gweithgynhyrchu Cymru, sydd, fel y dywedasoch, yn cynrychioli’r sector gweithgynhyrchu, ac mae wedi gofyn inni ystyried beth y gallwn ei wneud i’w helpu. Yr ydym wedi addo ystyried hynny o ddifrif, ac ailadroddwyd yr addewid hwnnw gennym yn yr ail uwchgynhadledd economaidd a gynhaliwyd yn Llanelwy yr wythnos diwethaf.

On forecasting the number of jobs to be lost, it is difficult to be precise on that, because the advice that we have been given is that this recession has been caused by different reasons from those that caused the recessions of the 1970s, the 1980s, and the 1990s. Therefore, it is difficult to predict how many job losses there will be. The critical period will be between the turn of the year and the spring, when the companies that have held back from making redundancies so far will be looking to see how far they think the recession will go. Hopefully, they will decide not to shed their workforce, but it is too early to say.

O ran darogan nifer y swyddi a gollir, mae’n anodd bod yn fanwl ynglŷn â hynny, oherwydd y cyngor a roddwyd inni yw bod y dirwasgiad hwn wedi cael ei achosi gan resymau gwahanol i’r rhai a achosodd ddirwasgiadau’r 1970au, yr 1980au a’r 1990au. Felly, mae’n anodd rhagweld faint o swyddi a gollir. Bydd y cyfnod tyngedfennol rhwng troad y flwyddyn a’r gwanwyn, pan fydd y cwmnïau sydd wedi ymatal rhag diswyddo gweithwyr hyd yma yn edrych i weld pa mor bell yr aiff y dirwasgiad yn eu tyb hwy. Gobeithio y byddant yn penderfynu peidio â chael gwared â’u gweithlu, ond mae’n rhy gynnar i ddweud.

Part of the problem is that the figures that we receive relate to previous quarters and not to the existing quarter. Therefore, we have to rely on intelligence from our relationship and account managers, who can give us a better indication of what is happening on the ground in the short term. However, I can assure Members that we are keeping the forecasts in mind as we respond as best we can with the Assembly’s powers.

Rhan o’r broblem yw bod y ffigurau a gawn yn cyfeirio at chwarteri blaenorol ac nid at y chwarter cyfredol. Felly, rhaid inni ddibynnu ar wybodaeth a gawn gan ein rheolwyr cysylltiadau a chyfrifon, sy’n gallu rhoi gwell syniad inni o’r hyn sy’n digwydd ar lawr gwlad yn y tymor byr. Fodd bynnag, gallaf sicrhau’r Aelodau ein bod yn cadw’r rhagolygon mewn cof wrth inni ymateb cystal ag y gallwn gyda phwerau’r Cynulliad.

As we told the summit at St Asaph, we have plans to release Assembly land for affordable and social housing purposes, and we have also agreed to try to bring forward several capital projects. However, there are two issues that we need to bear in mind. First, we need to understand what the UK Government will be doing through its pre-budget report. It will be helpful to have some information on what might be contained in that report before we finally bring our plans forward. As I understand it, the pre-budget report is now likely to be published earlier this month, rather than later, which means that we may well have more concrete information to put before the next summit, which we expect to be held at the beginning of December.

Fel y dywedasom wrth yr uwchgynhadledd yn Llanelwy, mae gennym gynlluniau i ryddhau tir y Cynulliad at ddibenion tai fforddiadwy a chymdeithasol, ac yr ydym hefyd wedi cytuno i geisio cyflwyno amryw o brosiectau cyfalaf. Fodd bynnag, mae dau fater y mae angen inni eu cadw mewn cof. Yn gyntaf, mae angen inni ddeall beth y bydd Llywodraeth y DU yn ei wneud drwy ei hadroddiad rhag-gyllidebol. Bydd yn fuddiol cael rhywfaint o wybodaeth am yr hyn a allai fod yn yr adroddiad hwnnw cyn inni gyflwyno’n cynlluniau yn y diwedd. Yn ôl a ddeallaf, mae’r adroddiad rhag-gyllidebol  erbyn hyn yn debygol o gael ei gyhoeddi’n gynharach y mis hwn, yn hytrach nag yn hwyrach, sy’n golygu y bydd gennym efallai wybodaeth fwy pendant i’w rhoi gerbron yr uwchgynhadledd nesaf, y disgwyliwn iddi gael ei chynnal ddechrau mis Rhagfyr.

Janet Ryder: The release of Assembly land is certainly to be welcomed in this situation, given the diversification of Corus into the housing solutions market. However, that is a long-term solution, and it may not have an immediate impact on current jobs. What might have an immediate impact, however, is the availability of training. I have asked you before, but can you tell me now what assessment has been made of the capacity of work-based trainers and colleges in the area to respond to the increasing demand for new courses? What can the Government do, if anything, to assist those colleges should they find that they need extra funding to offer new courses?

Janet Ryder: Mae rhyddhau tir y Cynulliad yn sicr i’w groesawu yn y sefyllfa hon, o ystyried bod Corus yn arallgyfeirio i’r farchnad atebion tai. Fodd bynnag, ateb hirdymor yw hwnnw, ac efallai na chaiff effaith ar unwaith ar swyddi sy’n bod ar hyn o bryd. Yr hyn a allai gael effaith ar unwaith, fodd bynnag, yw’r hyfforddiant sydd ar gael. Yr wyf wedi gofyn ichi o’r blaen, ond a allwch ddweud wrthyf yn awr pa asesiad sydd wedi’i wneud o allu hyfforddwyr seiliedig ar waith a cholegau yn yr ardal i ymateb i’r galw cynyddol am gyrsiau newydd? Beth y gall y Llywodraeth ei wneud, os oes unrhyw beth, i helpu’r colegau hynny petaent yn canfod bod angen cyllid ychwanegol arnynt i gynnig cyrsiau newydd?

The Deputy First Minister: That is an important issue, because two things are happening at once. First, people are being made redundant, so they need extra training to seek a new job. In certain circumstances, the ReACT programme can help with that, and we can also help new employers in the short term. However, secondly, more and more young people are now looking at full-time training after leaving school at the age of 16, when they may previously have gone into a job. Therefore, we are beginning to see this greater demand for places at further education colleges.

Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog: Mae hwnnw’n fater pwysig, oherwydd y mae dau beth yn digwydd ar yr un pryd. Yn gyntaf, mae pobl yn cael eu diswyddo, felly mae angen hyfforddiant ychwanegol arnynt i chwilio am swyddi newydd. O dan rai amgylchiadau, gall y rhaglen ReACT helpu gyda hynny, a gallwn helpu cyflogwyr newydd yn y tymor byr hefyd. Fodd bynnag, yn ail, mae mwy a mwy o bobl ifanc bellach yn ystyried hyfforddiant llawnamser ar ôl gadael yr ysgol yn 16 oed, pryd y byddent o’r blaen wedi mynd i swyddi efallai. Felly, yr ydym yn dechrau gweld mwy o alw am leoedd mewn colegau addysg bellach.

At the summit, we agreed to assess what that demand is likely to be and, if we find that there is significant pressure that we need to respond to, we agreed to hold discussions with the Deputy Minister for Skills and the Minister for Finance and Public Service Delivery. It is rather early at this stage to know precisely what that demand will be. Therefore, we want to make the assessment first, and then consider how best to respond to it. However, we are conscious of the fact that the demand for training—from those who are newly unemployed and young people—will grow, and we need to address that.

Yn yr uwchgynhadledd, cytunasom i asesu faint fydd y galw hwnnw yn ôl pob tebyg ac, os canfyddwn fod pwysau sylweddol y mae angen inni ymateb iddo, cytunasom i gynnal trafodaethau gyda’r Dirprwy Weinidog dros Sgiliau a’r Gweinidog dros Gyllid a Chyflenwi Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus. Mae’n rhy gynnar braidd ar hyn o bryd i wybod beth yn union fydd y galw hwnnw. Felly, yr ydym am wneud yr asesiad hwnnw’n gyntaf, ac yna ystyried y ffordd orau o ymateb iddo. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn ymwybodol o’r ffaith y bydd y galw am hyfforddiant—o du’r rhai sydd newydd gael eu gwneud yn ddi-waith a phobl ifanc—yn cynyddu, ac mae angen inni roi sylw i hynny.

Mark Isherwood: I want to expand on Carl Sargeant’s helpful contribution on Corus Living Solutions. When I have visited the Corus Living Solutions site—first on my own, and subsequently as a member of the former Social Justice and Regeneration Committee—I was told that its business plan is focused on developing units for the Ministry of Defence and for motel chains, and that the development of residential units may be 10 years down the road.

Mark Isherwood: Yr wyf am ymhelaethu ar gyfraniad buddiol Carl Sargeant ynglŷn â Corus Living Solutions. Pan wyf wedi ymweld â safle Corus Living Solutions—ar fy mhen fy hun yn gyntaf, ac yna fel aelod o’r cyn Bwyllgor Cyfiawnder Cymdeithasol ac Adfywio—dywedwyd wrthyf fod ei gynllun busnes yn canolbwyntio ar ddatblygu unedau ar gyfer y Weinyddiaeth Amddiffyn a chadwyni motel, ac na fydd yn datblygu unedau preswyl am ryw 10 mlynedd efallai.

3.00 p.m.

Given the level of housing need, with Shelter forecasting that there will be between 88,000 and 120,000 households on waiting lists, and given the need for economic stimulus, which you identified at the north Wales summit last week, in addition to looking at land release, what work could you do to help Corus Living Solutions to diversify its business plan to help deliver social and affordable housing units at an economic cost? That would be good for the people who need the houses, good for the businesses that produce the goods, and good for housing developers, housing associations and local authorities that would be engaged as partners in the process.

O ystyried lefel yr angen am dai, a Shelter yn rhagweld y bydd rhwng 88,000 a 120,000 o aelwydydd ar restrau aros, ac o ystyried yr angen am ysgogiad economaidd, y tynasoch sylw ato yn yr uwchgynhadledd yng ngogledd Cymru yr wythnos diwethaf, yn ogystal ag edrych ar ryddhau tir, pa waith y gallwch ei wneud i helpu Corus Living Solutions i arallgyfeirio ei gynllun busnes i helpu i ddarparu tai cymdeithasol a fforddiadwy am gost economaidd? Byddai hynny’n beth da i’r bobl y mae angen y tai arnynt, yn beth da i’r busnesau sy’n cynhyrchu’r nwyddau, ac yn beth da i ddatblygwyr tai, cymdeithasau tai ac awdurdodau lleol a fyddai’n cyfrannu at y broses fel partneriaid.

The Deputy First Minister: I will take the idea away, and I should also have said that in response to Carl. We have to be sure that the land is available for housing and is in the right areas, and that the right plan exists to meet local housing needs. That is crucial. Subject to that, we would want to look at any proposal.

On the issue of Corus coming forward with ideas to diversify, obviously we would be happy to talk to the company. If it feels that there is a market that it is currently not serving and which could be served, of course we would be ready to discuss that with it.

Ynghylch bod Corus yn cyflwyno syniadau i arallgyfeirio, mae’n amlwg y byddem yn fodlon siarad â’r cwmni. Os yw’n teimlo bod marchnad nad yw’n ei diwallu ar hyn o bryd ac y gellid ei diwallu, wrth gwrs byddem yn barod i drafod hynny gydg ef.

Trish Law: I am grateful to William Graham for raising this important issue today. The job losses in south Wales and in the south Wales Valleys in particular are again grabbing the headlines. As we have heard, Tredegar in my constituency has suffered a double blow in the last few days, with almost 100 jobs going at Wacker Neuson, which manufactures wheel dumpers for the construction industry, and almost 50 job losses at Geith International, which makes shovels and buckets for excavation machinery. Other employers tell me that the big problem that they are encountering is one of cash flow. It is hopefully a temporary problem, but there appears to be no financial help available to them from the Welsh Assembly Government. What assurances can you offer to such companies that are experiencing cash flow problems?

The Deputy First Minister: Cash flow is part of a wider problem, which is that many companies are finding it difficult to get finance from their current bankers, despite a massive injection from the UK Government into a number of banks. There was a promise that lending would be restored to 2007 levels, and that is not happening currently as it should.

We asked our relationship and account managers what the biggest single problem facing businesses is, and this is clearly it: the lack of finance and the lack of availability of credit from the banks. One of the things that came out of that summit was that we made it clear that we wanted the Secretary of State for Wales to inform the economic forum in London that this issue has to be addressed.

Gofynasom i’n rheolwyr cysylltiadau a chyfrifon beth oedd y broblem fwyaf sy’n wynebu busnesau, ac mae’n amlwg mai’r broblem honno yw diffyg cyllid a diffyg credyd gan y banciau. Un o’r pethau a ddeilliodd o’r uwchgynhadledd honno oedd bod arnom eisiau i Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru roi gwybod i’r fforwm economaidd yn Llundain fod angen rhoi sylw i’r mater hwn.

Unfortunately, there is not a lot that the Welsh Assembly Government can do to assist companies with cash flow, because of operational aid issues. This is essentially a matter for the banks. However, if there is a particular problem with cash flow that Finance Wales can help with, provided that it is a qualifying company, I suggest that any company that needs help contacts Finance Wales.

On the particular problem at Wacker Neuson, I admit that my officials have had difficulty in contacting the company. However, we will redouble our efforts to see what we can do to help.

O ran y broblem arbennig yn Wacker Neuson, yr wyf yn cyfaddef bod fy swyddogion wedi cael trafferth cysylltu â’r cwmni. Fodd bynnag, ymdrechwn fwy byth i weld beth y gallwn ei wneud i helpu.

Mohammad Asghar: When Northern Rock was in trouble, the central Government stepped in to rescue the bank. It is time that banks helped the communities and businesses in our areas that are suffering through no fault of their own—this is somebody else’s fault. Communities in Gilwern, Cross Keys and elsewhere in Wales are suffering. We should give them a cash incentive, whether it is through tax, the banks, or local councils through rate credit, so that people are not laid off this side of the festive season. Perhaps jobs should be shared—which is an option that Kirsty mentioned—and maintained for technical reasons. Welsh people make up the best workforce in the country, and they do not deserve this. As Minister with responsibility for the economy, it is your duty to support them as much as possible through the banks, the Government and local authorities to keep them in business, and to keep families in prosperity.

The Deputy First Minister: You raised a range of issues there, including the question of how to relieve the tax burden. That is a matter for the UK Government and Treasury, but I understand that there is cross-party consensus at Westminster that something should be done to help companies. We are working hard with local government, and there was a positive consensus at the economic summit, where the WLGA is represented. We are working hard together to do what we can to minimise the impact of the economic downturn on our businesses.

Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog: Yr ydych wedi codi amryw o faterion, gan gynnwys y cwestiwn sut y mae ysgafnu baich y dreth. Mater i Lywodraeth y DU a’r Trysorlys yw hynny, ond deallaf fod consensws trawsbleidiol yn San Steffan y dylid gwneud rhywbeth i helpu cwmnïau. Yr ydym yn gweithio’n galed gyda llywodraeth leol, a chafwyd consensws cadarnhaol yn yr uwchgynhadledd economaidd, lle’r oedd Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru wedi’i chynrychioli. Yr ydym yn gweithio’n galed gyda’n gilydd i wneud ein gorau i leihau effaith y dirywiad economaidd ar ein busnesau.

Coming back to the issue of the banks, you are right—if they have received a substantial amount of help from the UK Treasury, they should understand that that must translate into help for small businesses. Although the JEREMIE programme, when it comes on-stream, will be an enormous help, it must be seen in the context of the demand from small businesses. The banks have a crucial role in seeing some of those companies through this downturn.

Eleanor Burnham: I will not go over the old ground of which companies most need support. Following your visit to Japan, Deputy First Minister, how much money are you hoping for? I understand that Gordon Brown went to the middle east, and there is much sovereign wealth globally. Given those other two pots of money, how much do you envisage squeezing out for Wales—particularly for my region of north Wales?

Eleanor Burnham: Nid wyf am aildrafod pwnc sydd wedi’i hen drafod, sef pa gwmnïau y mae mwyaf o angen cymorth arnynt. Yn sgîl eich ymweliad â Japan, Ddirprwy Brif Weinidog, faint o arian yr ydych yn gobeithio’i gael? Caf ar ddeall i Gordon Brown fynd i’r dwyrain canol, ac mae llawer o gyfoeth sofran yn fyd-eang. O ystyried y ddau botyn arall hynny o arian, faint a ddaw i Gymru yn ôl yr hyn a ragwelwch—yn enwedig ar gyfer fy rhanbarth, sef gogledd Cymru?

The Deputy First Minister: In relation to the pre-budget report, we do not know how much money will be forthcoming, but the expectation is that there will be some, because it has been well trailed. Therefore, a proportion will come to Wales. Whether, in addition to the tax cuts, there will be a revenue implication, we will have to wait and see. However, it was clear to me from my visit to Japan that, although there are considerable economic challenges facing a number of important companies that have invested in Wales, their long-term decision to invest in Wales will be maintained. We must help these companies as much as we can to overcome the current difficulties, because I am confident that future investment will come to Wales provided that we can give those companies the right support. Provided they make the appropriate business cases, they will get that support, and there will be significant investment in the future.

The Counsel General and Leader of the House (Carwyn Jones): I have no changes to report to this week’s planned Government business, and business for the next three weeks is as set out in the business statement and announcement, which can be found among the agenda papers that are available to Members electronically.

Y Cwnsler Cyffredinol ac Arweinydd y Tŷ (Carwyn Jones): Nid oes gennyf ddim newidiadau i’w cyhoeddi ym musnes arfaethedig y Llywodraeth yr wythnos hon, ac mae’r busnes ar gyfer y tair wythnos nesaf fel y mae wedi’i nodi yn y datganiad a chyhoeddiad busnes, y gellir ei weld ymhlith papurau’r agenda sydd ar gael i’r Aelodau’n electronig.

Mark Isherwood: I call on the Assembly Government to make a statement on the proposed new prison for Wales. As you may be aware, Denbighshire County Council has formally submitted a response to the Ministry of Justice supporting the argument for a prison in north Wales and noting the support of Brian Gibbons as Minister for Social Justice and Local Government. The council highlights two proposed sites in Denbighshire.

Mark Isherwood: Galwaf ar Lywodraeth y Cynulliad i wneud datganiad am y carchar newydd arfaethedig i Gymru. Fel y gwyddoch efallai, mae Cyngor Sir Ddinbych wedi ymateb yn ffurfiol i’r Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder i gefnogi’r ddadl dros gael carchar yng ngogledd Cymru a chan nodi cefnogaeth Brian Gibbons fel Gweinidog dros Gyfiawnder Cymdeithasol a Llywodraeth Leol. Mae’r cyngor yn tynnu sylw at ddau safle arfaethedig yn sir Ddinbych.

The north Wales economic forum has also issued a document strongly supporting the establishment of a prison in north Wales, commensurate with the numbers of prisoners from the region. It noted that north Wales needs its first prison more than south Wales needs its fifth, and it made that statement in the context of proposed sites at Wrexham and Caernarfon. It concludes by stating that, in the interests of transparency and accountability, the Assembly Government’s response to the consultation should be published, so that the people of north Wales can see that the Assembly Government is addressing the needs of the whole of Wales.

Your initial submission to the Ministry for Justice proposed two sites in south Wales, and when I questioned you on this last year, you said that they were the only suitable sites owned by the Assembly Government of which you were aware. However, it subsequently transpired that the Wrexham site was Assembly Government owned. Will you therefore make a statement to clarify this, to address the concerns raised by the north Wales economic forum, and to address the input from councils such as Denbighshire council?

Yr oedd eich cyflwyniad cychwynnol i’r Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder yn cynnig dau safle yn ne Cymru, a phan holais chi ynghylch hyn y llynedd, dywedasoch mai y rhain oedd yr unig safleoedd addas o eiddo Llywodraeth y Cynulliad y gwyddech amdanynt. Fodd bynnag, daeth yn hysbys wedyn mai Llywodraeth y Cynulliad oedd yn berchen ar y safle yn Wrecsam. Felly, a wnewch ddatganiad i fod yn glir ynghylch hyn, i roi sylw i’r pryderon a godwyd gan fforwm economaidd gogledd Cymru, ac i roi sylw i gyfraniad cynghorau fel cyngor Sir Ddinbych?

3.10 p.m.

Carwyn Jones: I am not sure what you are asking me to do, but I can tell you that the Government wants to see prison accommodation in north Wales along with provision in Wales for female prisoners. At the moment, there is no such provision, and it is important that prisoners are able to serve their time as close to home as possible.

Carwyn Jones: Nid wyf yn siŵr beth yr ydych yn gofyn imi ei wneud, ond gallaf ddweud wrthych fod ar y Llywodraeth eisiau gweld carchar yng ngogledd Cymru ynghyd â darpariaeth yng Nghymru i fenywod sy’n cael eu carcharu. Ar hyn o bryd, nid oes darpariaeth o’r fath, ac mae’n bwysig i garcharorion allu treulio’u cyfnod yn y carchar mor agos i’w cartrefi ag sy’n bosibl.

Nerys Evans: Hoffwn gyfeirio at sylwadau a wnaethpwyd gan Gyngor Tref Aberdaugleddau dros y penwythnos ynglŷn â’i benderfyniad i beidio â chydymffurfio â Deddf yr Iaith Gymraeg 1993 a darparu dogfennau yn yr iaith Gymraeg. Yr wyf yn gwybod bod rhaid i gynghorau tref a chymuned gydymffurfio â’r Ddeddf erbyn dechrau’r mis nesaf. Credaf fod sylwadau Cyngor Tref Aberdaugleddau’n beryglus iawn, ac mae sylwadau Aelodau Seneddol Ceidwadol lleol yn peri pryder o ran torri Deddf gwlad a pheidio â darparu gwasanaethau Cymraeg sy’n hawl sylfaenol i ni, siaradwyr Cymraeg. A yw hwn yn agor y drws i gynghorau tref a chymuned i beidio â chydymffurfio â Deddfau eraill sy’n ceisio sicrhau cydraddoldeb a hawliau i bobl Cymru, megis Deddf Gwahaniaethu ar sail Anabledd 1995 a Deddf Gwahaniaethu ar sail Rhyw 1975? A oes modd i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad ddod â datganiad i’r Cynulliad unwaith y bydd cynghorau tref a chymuned Cymru wedi cyflwyno eu cynlluniau iaith ddechrau’r mis nesaf, i sicrhau cydraddoldeb o ran hawliau pobl Cymru?

Carwyn Jones: Nid yw’r sefyllfa gyfreithiol wedi newid. Yr ydym yn gobeithio y bydd y cynghorau a Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg yn gallu gweithio gyda’i gilydd er mwyn dod o hyd i ffordd ymlaen. Mae’n bwysig bod pob cyngor, fel pob awdurdod cyhoeddus arall yng Nghymru, yn ystyried yr angen i ddarparu gwasanaethau yn y Gymraeg o dan Ddeddf yr Iaith Gymraeg 1993. Cymru yw Cymru, ac mae dyletswyddau ar awdurdodau lleol o dan y Ddeddf honno.

Kirsty Williams: Minister, I wonder whether you could make time available for your colleague, the Minister for Environment, Sustainability and Housing, to give an update to the Chamber on the governance issues of national parks in Wales. I raised concerns over six months ago about the ability of the Brecon Beacons National Park Authority to deal appropriately and in a timely fashion with planning applications, following the publication of the Gilestone review. There is still widespread concern among my constituents about the capacity of the Brecon Beacons National Park Authority to cope with planning applications of that nature and, indeed, any planning application. Given the fact that such a long period has elapsed and that the Minister has undertaken work in this area, do you not now believe that it would be appropriate for her to come to the Chamber to give an update on those findings and the actions that she intends to take to address the democratic deficit in the Brecon Beacons National Park Authority and, indeed, any other issues surrounding that organisation?

Kirsty Williams: Weinidog, tybed a allech neilltuo amser ar gyfer eich cyd-Weinidog, y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd, Cynaliadwyedd a Thai, i roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i’r Siambr ynghylch materion llywodraethu’r parciau cenedlaethol yng Nghymru? Lleisiais bryderon dros chwe mis yn ôl ynghylch gallu Awdurdod Parc Cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog i ddelio’n briodol ac yn brydlon â cheisiadau cynllunio, yn sgîl cyhoeddi adolygiad Gilestone. Mae cryn bryder o hyd ymhlith fy etholwyr ynghylch gallu Awdurdod Parc Cenedlaethol y Bannau i ymdopi â cheisiadau cynllunio o’r fath, ac, yn wir, unrhyw gais cynllunio. O ystyried y ffaith bod cyfnod mor hir wedi mynd heibio a bod y Gweinidog wedi gwneud gwaith yn y maes hwn, onid ydych bellach yn credu y byddai’n briodol iddi ddod i’r Siambr i roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y canfyddiadau hynny a’r hyn y mae’n bwriadu ei wneud i roi sylw i’r diffyg democrataidd yn Awdurdod Parc Cenedlaethol y Bannau ac, yn wir, unrhyw broblemau eraill sydd gan y sefydliad hwnnw?

Carwyn Jones: You will know that the national park authority accepted all of the Gilestone report’s recommendations and that it has drawn up an improvement plan to remedy the deficiencies identified in the report. The Minister meets the chair of the authority and its chief executive, and did so most recently on 8 October. She also met members of the park authority on 26 March, 27 June and following the May local government elections. Officials also meet the park authority’s acting chief executive and senior planning officers regularly to review progress against the actions identified in the park’s agreed improvement plan—the most recent review meetings were on 12 September and 24 October. You will also be aware that an independent planning advisor has been appointed to advise the national park authority and that officials from the national parks sponsor team have also arranged for the Wales Audit Office to review, this autumn, the impact of the improvements that the national park authority is making in its development control service. Therefore, several matters are being taken forward, following the difficulties that were identified in the report and which were raised by you in the Chamber.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Cyn y toriad hanner tymor, codais gyda chi fater chwilio am gyfle i’r Gweinidog dros Blant, Addysg, Dysgu Gydol Oes a Sgiliau, sy’n gyfrifol am addysg uwch, leisio’i barn am y corff a oedd yn ymchwilio i gyllid ar gyfer addysg uwch yng Nghymru. Yn y cyswllt hwnnw, dywedasoch y byddai’r Gweinidog yn gwneud datganiad mewn Cyfarfod Llawn ym mis Tachwedd, ac mae’r Gweinidog wedi cadarnhau hynny mewn amrywiol eitemau o ohebiaeth. Sylwaf yn ôl y rhagolwg, sy’n mynd â ni hyd at yr wythnos gyntaf ym mis Rhagfyr, nad oes dim slot ar gael ar gyfer datganiad am ymateb y Llywodraeth i’r corff adolygu ar gyllid addysg uwch yng Nghymru. A allaf bwyso arnoch, fel mater o frys, ddod o hyd i slot oherwydd, fel y gwyddoch, y mae sibrydion wedi bod ynghylch yr adolygiad, ac nid wyf yn credu y dylai’r corff addysg uwch fod yn gweithredu mewn gwagle o sibrydion? Dylai fod eglurder ganddo ynghylch penderfyniadau’r corff cyllido hwn. Yr wyf yn gofyn ichi sicrhau bod datganiad yn cael ei wneud mewn Cyfarfod Llawn cyn diwedd y tymor neu, os nad datganiad, yna esboniad ynghylch pam na all y Llywodraeth neilltuo amser ar gyfer y datganiad hwnnw.

Carwyn Jones: I will pursue the matter and give you a full answer next week.

Jenny Randerson: The Minister for Health and Social Services published a consultation document today entitled, 'Paying for Care in Wales’. I welcome that publication. It is on a major and fundamental issue that we have to grasp in our society. I dare say that we will not all agree on the solutions to the problem, but we all recognise that this is an important and complex issue.

Jenny Randerson: Cyhoeddodd y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ddogfen ymgynghorol heddiw sydd â’r teitl, 'Talu am Ofal yng Nghymru’. Yr wyf yn croesawu’r cyhoeddiad hwnnw. Mae’n ymwneud â mater pwysig a sylfaenol y mae’n rhaid inni fynd i’r afael ag ef yn ein cymdeithas. Mae’n siŵr gennyf na fydd pawb ohonom yn cytuno ar yr atebion i’r broblem, ond yr ydym oll yn cydnabod bod hyn yn fater pwysig a chymhleth.

I am aware that it is a consultation paper, but as it is on a topic of such fundamental importance to our society, we should, at the very least, have an oral statement on this, if not a full debate. Could you ask the Minister for Health and Social Services, who is sat beside you, whether it will be possible for that to be arranged?

Carwyn Jones: You are right to say that the matter is currently at the consultation stage; it is now important that consultees have the opportunity to respond to what is being proposed. At an appropriate time, the Government will then look to provide a response to the results that of the consultation exercise.

Peter Black: Could we have a written statement on the progress of the dot.cym project, which is a One Wales Government commitment? What is the Assembly Government currently doing about that? That is important in promoting Wales and Welsh civic society. If we could get that in place as soon as possible with Welsh Assembly Government support, it would be much appreciated by a great many people in this country.

Peter Black: A allem gael datganiad ysgrifenedig ar gynnydd y prosiect dot.cym, sy’n un o ymrwymiadau Llywodraeth Cymru’n Un? Beth y mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn ei wneud ynghylch hynny ar hyn o bryd? Mae hynny’n bwysig o ran hyrwyddo Cymru a chymdeithas ddinesig Cymru. Pe gallem roi hynny ar waith cyn gynted ag sy’n bosibl gyda chymorth Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, byddai llawer iawn o bobl yn y wlad hon yn gwerthfawrogi hynny’n fawr.

Secondly, could the First Minister or Deputy First Minister make a statement on progress in relation to the affordable housing LCO? As you know, there is a great deal of concern about this following the utterances of the Wales Office Minister, Wayne David, last week, on the current status of that LCO and about whether or not the UK Government will support the views of the Welsh Affairs Select Committee. Could we have some clarity on the current state of negotiations between the Welsh Assembly Government and the UK Government on that LCO?

Yn ail, a allai’r Prif Weinidog neu’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog wneud datganiad ar y cynnydd yng nghyswllt y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol ynghylch tai fforddiadwy? Fel y gwyddoch, mae llawer iawn o bryder ynghylch hyn yn sgîl geiriau Gweinidog Swyddfa Cymru, Wayne David, yr wythnos diwethaf, ynghylch statws presennol y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol hwnnw ac a fydd Llywodraeth y DU yn cefnogi barn y Pwyllgor Dethol ar Faterion Cymreig. A allem gael eglurder ynghylch y sefyllfa bresennol o ran y trafodaethau rhwng Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru a Llywodraeth y DU ynghylch y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol hwnnw?

Carwyn Jones: On the dot.cym issue, it is open to you to ask questions of the appropriate Minister on that.

On the affordable housing LCO, it is important that we examine exactly what was said last week. I listened to the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales and he has made strong assurances that he did not say what he was reported to have said. He has not given any indication of what the position of the UK Government will be on the affordable housing LCO.

O ran y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol ynghylch tai fforddiadwy, mae’n bwysig inni edrych ar beth yn union a ddywedwyd yr wythnos diwethaf. Gwrandewais ar Is-ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ac mae wedi rhoi sicrwydd pendant na ddywedodd yr hyn yr honnwyd iddo ei ddweud. Nid yw wedi rhoi dim syniad ynghylch beth fydd safbwynt Llywodraeth y DU ynghylch y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol ynghylch tai fforddiadwy.

It is also important to state that under the Government of Wales Act 2006 MPs, as elected members, have a role in scrutinising LCOs and in suggesting amendments to them. Their role is of examining whether it is appropriate for a power to be devolved to the Assembly, not how that power is used. However, it is important to emphasise that they have a role under the Government of Wales Act 2006 in scrutinising LCOs. That is sometimes missed. The LCO is now a matter for the two Governments. An LCO committee in the Assembly will make its report and an LCO committee in Westminster will make its report. However, ultimately, it is a matter for the administrations in Cardiff and in London to move forward. We have a good record of working together to deliver appropriate LCOs for the people of Wales.

Mae’n bwysig nodi hefyd, dan Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 2006, fod gan ASau, fel aelodau etholedig, rôl o ran craffu ar Orchmynion cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol ac awgrymu gwelliannau iddynt. Eu rôl yw edrych a yw’n briodol i bŵer gael ei ddatganoli i’r Cynulliad, nid sut y defnyddir y pŵer hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig pwysleisio bod ganddynt rôl dan Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 2006 i graffu ar Orchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol. Anwybyddir hynny weithiau. Mae’r Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol bellach yn fater i’r ddwy Lywodraeth. Bydd pwyllgor Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol yn y Cynulliad yn llunio’i adroddiad ef a bydd pwyllgor Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol yn San Steffan yn llunio’i adroddiad yntau. Fodd bynnag, yn y pen draw, mater i weinyddiaethau Caerdydd a Llundain yw symud ymlaen. Mae gennym record dda o gydweithio i gyflwyno Gorchmynion cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol priodol i bobl Cymru.

Eleanor Burnham: The Deputy First Minister made great play of ensuring prompt payments by the Welsh Assembly Government, which we welcome. Could we have an update on that? Furthermore, on the ancillary matter of large companies, which are important to the Welsh economy, Tesco has now decreed that it will pay non-food producers on a 60-day rather than a 30-day limit, which is scandalous, particularly in view of the First Minister’s laudable attempts to ensure that the Welsh Assembly Government pays in good time. Therefore, could we have an update on prompt payments by the Assembly and perhaps a small debate or statement? I think that it is a crucial matter and it follows on from previous discussions about helping businesses throughout Wales.

Eleanor Burnham: Rhoddodd y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog bwys mawr ar sicrhau bod Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru’n talu’n brydlon, a chroesawn hynny. A allem gael y wybodaeth ddiweddaraf ynghylch hynny? Yn ogystal, o ran y mater ategol, sef cwmnïau mawr, sy’n bwysig i economi Cymru, mae Tesco bellach wedi datgan y bydd yn talu i gynhyrchwyr nad ydynt yn gynhyrchwyr bwyd ar sail terfyn amser o 60 diwrnod yn hytrach na 30 diwrnod, sy’n warthus, yn arbennig o ystyried ymdrechion canmoladwy’r Prif Weinidog i sicrhau bod Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru’n talu mewn da bryd. Felly, a allem gael y wybodaeth ddiweddaraf ynghylch taliadau prydlon gan y Cynulliad a dadl fach neu ddatganiad efallai? Credaf ei fod yn fater hollbwysig ac mae’n dilyn trafodaethau blaenorol ynghylch helpu busnesau ledled Cymru.

3.20 p.m.

Carwyn Jones: It is a matter for Tesco what it does; we do not have any control over it. However, if it is extending the time limit in which it pays its suppliers then I regret that. Small businesses rely on being paid promptly. It is also important to understand that when the Government pays promptly, that can have a beneficial effect on the entire economy. As someone who has a background in small business, I know full well how important it is to be paid promptly—I am still owed for work that I did in 1991. I will not name the firm of solicitors that still owes me money, but that is common in the profession that I came from.

Carwyn Jones: Mater i Tesco yw penderfynu beth y mae’n ei wneud; nid oes gennym reolaeth o gwbl drosto. Fodd bynnag, os yw’n ymestyn y terfyn amser ar gyfer talu ei gyflenwyr yna gresynaf at hynny. Mae busnesau bach yn dibynnu ar gael eu talu’n brydlon. Mae’n bwysig deall hefyd pan fydd y Llywodraeth yn talu’n brydlon, y gall hynny fod o fudd i’r economi gyfan. Fel rhywun sydd â chefndir mewn busnes bach, gwn yn iawn mor bwysig yw cael eich talu’n brydlon—mae arian yn dal yn ddyledus imi am waith a wneuthum yn 1991. Nid enwaf y cwmni o gyfreithwyr y mae arno bres imi o hyd, ond mae hynny’n gyffredin yn y proffesiwn yr arferwn weithio ynddo.

In all seriousness, I think that we sometimes underestimate the importance of ensuring that businesses are paid as promptly as possible. I know of many businesses—the building trade is one example of where this happens—that are good, reputable and financially sound, and yet which collapse because they have not been paid promptly by their creditors. At a time when banks are reluctant to lend money, it is even more important to ensure that people are paid on time, and we as a Government intend to do that.

O ddifrif, credaf nad ydym weithiau’n rhoi digon o bwys ar sicrhau bod busnesau’n cael eu talu mor brydlon ag sy’n bosibl. Gwn am lawer o fusnesau—mae adeiladu’n un enghraifft o ble y mae hyn yn digwydd—sy’n dda, a chanddynt enw da ac sy’n gadarn yn ariannol, ond sydd eto’n mynd i’r wal am nad ydynt wedi cael eu talu’n brydlon gan eu credydwyr. Ar adeg pan fydd banciau’n gyndyn o roi benthyg arian, mae’n bwysicach byth sicrhau bod pobl yn cael eu talu’n brydlon, ac yr ydym ni fel Llywodraeth yn bwriadu gwneud hynny.

Mick Bates: A combination of factors has led recently to quite a loss of confidence in our agri-environment schemes. The statement made by the Minister for Rural Affairs on 22 October regarding the increase in funding for the organic scheme and the bringing to a halt of any new entrants to Tir Cynnal and to parts of Tir Gofal has caused great consternation in the agricultural industry. That is combined with the fact that, as I stated in a question to the First Minister, many hundreds of farmers who take part in agri-environment schemes—I must clarify that I am not referring to single farm payments, as the First Minister misinterpreted me earlier—are waiting for payments for many months, and, in some cases, for over a year. Given the economic climate, that is unacceptable. There are, undoubtedly, mistakes on Government maps, as the First Minister well understands, and I am certain that some of those mistakes could be ironed out speedily. It seems to me that we need a statement from the Minister for Rural Affairs to ensure that confidence in agri-environment schemes is restored and, in particular, that the outstanding payments are made urgently, given the cash-flow situation for all small businesses. From your own experience, you know how crucial it is to ensure that money that is owed to you, whether by a small or large business or by the Government, is paid on time.

Mick Bates: Mae cyfuniad o ffactorau wedi arwain at golli cryn dipyn o hyder yn ein cynlluniau amaeth-amgylcheddol yn ddiweddar. Mae datganiad y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig ar 22 Hydref ynghylch y cynnydd mewn arian ar gyfer y cynllun organig ac atal derbyn newydd-ddyfodiaid i Tir Cynnal a rhannau o Tir Gofal wedi achosi cryn syfrdandod yn y diwydiant amaeth. Mae hynny ynghyd â’r ffaith, fel y dywedais mewn cwestiwn i’r Prif Weinidog, fod cannoedd o ffermwyr sy’n cymryd rhan mewn cynlluniau amaeth-amgylcheddol—rhaid imi bwysleisio nad wyf yn cyfeirio at daliadau sengl, fel y cefais fy nghamddehongli gan y Prif Weinidog yn gynharach—yn aros am daliadau ers misoedd lawer, ac mewn rhai achosion, ers dros flwyddyn. O gofio’r hinsawdd economaidd, mae hynny’n annerbyniol. Yn ddi-os, mae camgymeriadau ar fapiau’r Llywodraeth, fel y dealla’r Prif Weinidog yn iawn, ac yr wyf yn sicr y gellid unioni’r camgymeriadau hynny’n gyflym. Ymddengys i mi fod angen datganiad arnom gan y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig er mwyn adfer hyder yn y cynlluniau amaeth-amgylcheddol ac, yn arbennig, i sicrhau bod y taliadau dyledus yn cael eu talu’n ddiymdroi, o gofio’r sefyllfa o ran llif arian i bob busnes bach. Yn sgîl eich profiad chi eich hun, gwyddoch mor bwysig yw sicrhau bod yr arian sy’n ddyledus ichi, boed hynny gan fusnesau bach neu fawr neu gan y Llywodraeth, yn cael ei dalu’n brydlon.

Carwyn Jones: Having spent some years as the Minister with responsibility for farming, I am aware of the issue. Our payments were made promptly—I would say that, but it is true. The figures bear that out. It is difficult to give an opinion as to why an individual or individuals have not been paid. With the single farm payment, for example—and I am aware of the difference between the single farm payment and Tir Gofal payments—at one time there were issues with regard to cross-border payments that were caused elsewhere, if I can put it that way. I do not believe that there is a systemic problem that means that some farmers are not being paid as they should. There may be individual reasons why some farmers have not been paid, and it is open to those farmers, via their Assembly Members, to take the matter up with the Minister.

Carwyn Jones: Ar ôl treulio rhai blynyddoedd fel Gweinidog â chyfrifoldeb dros ffermio, yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r mater. Gwnaethpwyd ein taliadau’n brydlon—byddwn i’n dweud hynny, ond mae’n wir. Mae’r ffigurau’n ategu hynny. Mae’n anodd rhoi barn ynghylch pam nad yw unigolyn neu unigolion wedi cael eu talu. Gyda’r taliad sengl, er enghraifft—ac yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r gwahaniaeth rhwng y taliad sengl a thaliadau Tir Gofal—ar un adeg yr oedd problemau o ran taliadau trawsffiniol a achoswyd mewn man arall, os gallaf ei fynegi felly. Ni chredaf fod problem systemig sy’n golygu nad yw rhai ffermwyr yn cael eu talu fel y dylent. Efallai fod rhesymau unigol pam nad yw rhai ffermwyr wedi cael eu talu, ac mae croeso i’r ffermwyr hynny, drwy eu Haelodau o’r Cynulliad, godi’r mater gyda’r Gweinidog.

The Minister for Health and Social Services (Edwina Hart): At the end of last year I announced a review of the dental contract and the establishment of a task and finish group to look at a range of issues to improve the way in which the contract works. The review group completed its work in July and submitted its report. It concluded that the dental contract is broadly a workable system, and one that, with amendment, can be further improved. It was useful for me to see precisely where dentists, local health boards and patients consider improvements can be made to the contract. On the basis of its analysis, the group made 23 recommendations designed to increase the effectiveness of the contract and deliver improvements in oral health. I made a statement at the time in which I said that the group’s recommendations deserved the widest possible consideration. As indicated at that time, the report has been distributed to every dental practitioner in Wales providing a NHS service, inviting comments on its proposals. Copies of the review group’s report were also made available to Assembly Members.

Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Edwina Hart): Ddiwedd y llynedd cyhoeddais adolygiad o’r contract deintyddol a sefydlu grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen i edrych ar ystod o faterion i wella’r ffordd y mae’r contract yn gweithio. Cwblhaodd y grŵp adolygu ei waith yn ystod mis Gorffennaf a chyflwynodd ei adroddiad. Daeth i’r casgliad bod y contract deintyddol yn system ymarferol yn gyffredinol ac, o’i diwygio, yn un y gellir ei gwella ymhellach. Yr oedd yn ddefnyddiol imi weld lle yn union yr oedd deintyddion, byrddau iechyd lleol a chleifion yn credu y gellir gwneud gwelliannau i’r contract. Ar sail ei ddadansoddiad, gwnaeth y grŵp 23 o argymhellion sydd â’r nod o wella effeithiolrwydd y contract a sicrhau gwelliannau i iechyd y geg. Gwneuthum ddatganiad ar y pryd gan ddweud bod argymhellion y grŵp yn haeddu ystyriaeth mor eang ag sy’n bosibl. Fel y dywedais ar y pryd, mae’r adroddiad wedi cael ei ddosbarthu i bob ymarferydd deintyddol yng Nghymru sy’n darparu gwasanaeth dan y GIG, a gwahoddir sylwadau ar ei gynigion. Rhoddwyd copïau o adroddiad y grŵp adolygu i Aelodau’r Cynulliad hefyd.

Consultation on the report’s recommendations went on over the summer and closed at the end of September. I am pleased with the level of response. In total, there were 162 replies to the consultation questionnaire from right across Wales, with dental practitioners in every local health board area responding. Copies of the summary of the consultation responses will be made available to Assembly Members and placed on the Welsh Assembly Government website for more general consideration.

There was clear overall agreement with the general findings of the group’s report, and well over 60 per cent of those who responded agreed or strongly agreed with its conclusion that the current contract was workable, subject to the recommended changes. Some of the group’s specific recommendations met with universal support. In particular, there was universal support for the wish to allow dental practitioners to introduce a discretionary charge for patients who fail to attend appointments, and ensuring annual growth of LHB primary dental care funding allocations. There was also strong support for national guidance on the termination and transfer of dental contracts, and the need for help in the upgrade of dental surgery equipment to meet new statutory requirements.

The current review of units of dental activity as the sole contract currency was also seen as a key area. There is a sub-group of the main review that continues to work on these complex issues, and I look forward to seeing its final report and implementation proposals.

Teimlid hefyd fod yr adolygiad presennol o unedau gweithgaredd deintyddol fel unig sail y contract yn faes allweddol. Mae is-grŵp o’r prif adolygiad sy’n parhau i weithio ar y materion cymhleth hyn, ac edrychaf ymlaen at weld ei adroddiad terfynol a’i gynigion ar gyfer gweithredu.

I asked Professor Wayne Richards, as chairman, to reconvene the task and finish group to review the consultation responses and produce a further report for my consideration. The review group met on 4 November and it will shortly provide additional advice to me on its findings. Taking into account the views of those responding to the consultation, I have asked the group to consider the need to prioritise the recommendations, and to also identify any areas that responders felt were not adequately addressed in the initial review. Once I have received the review group’s report from Professor Richards, I will be in a position to consider an official response and to indicate how I wish to take forward the proposed changes.

Linked to the work of the dental contract review group is a need to lay the ground for consolidating and strengthening the community dental service as part of our 'One Wales’ commitment to refocus provision of dental services to provide a new emphasis on public health. Through the review process, I received a report during the summer on the future role and structure of the CDS that made several recommendations about the operation of the service. Some of these will need to be looked at in the context of the wider restructuring of the NHS in Wales. However, the report also recommended revised guidance on the role of the CDS and for the care of the vulnerable in society, including children from deprived areas and people with special needs. This guidance was published at the end of October and it will strengthen provision of dental services for those most in need and support the development of the CDS.

Yn gysylltiedig â gwaith grŵp adolygu’r contract deintyddol mae angen braenaru’r tir ar gyfer cyfnerthu a chryfhau’r gwasanaeth deintyddol cymunedol fel rhan o’n hymrwymiad yn 'Cymru’n Un’ i roi ffocws o’r newydd ar y ffordd y darperir gwasanaethau deintyddol er mwyn rhoi pwyslais newydd ar iechyd y cyhoedd. Drwy’r broses adolygu, cefais adroddiad yn ystod yr haf ar rôl a strwythur y gwasanaeth deintyddol cymunedol ar gyfer y dyfodol a wnaeth amryw o argymhellion ynghylch gweithrediad y gwasanaeth. Bydd angen edrych ar rai o’r rhain yng nghyd-destun ailstrwythuro ehangach yn GIG Cymru. Fodd bynnag, argymhellodd yr adroddiad hefyd ganllawiau diwygiedig ar rôl y gwasanaeth deintyddol cymunedol ac ar gyfer gofalu am y rhai sydd fwyaf agored i niwed mewn cymdeithas, gan gynnwys plant o ardaloedd difreintiedig a phobl a chanddynt anghenion arbennig. Cyhoeddwyd y canllawiau hyn ddiwedd mis Hydref a bydd yn cryfhau’r ddarpariaeth o wasanaethau deintyddol ar gyfer y rhai sydd â’r angen mwyaf ac yn cefnogi datblygu’r gwasanaeth deintyddol cymunedol.

The CDS is also delivering the national child oral health improvement programme, Designed to Smile, which is at the centre of the national oral health action plan for Wales. I am pleased to announce that the first phase of the Designed to Smile programme commenced last month, and it is already providing tooth-brushing programmes in well over 100 schools. This programme will be rolled out steadily across the two superpilot areas covering north Wales, Bridgend, Rhondda Cynon Taf, Merthyr Tydfil, Cardiff and the Vale of Glamorgan areas. A number of schools in Swansea are also participating in the programme.

Mae’r gwasanaeth deintyddol cymunedol hefyd yn darparu’r rhaglen wella genedlaethol ar iechyd y geg i blant, sef Cynllun Gwên, sydd wrth wraidd y cynllun gweithredu cenedlaethol i Gymru ar iechyd y geg. Mae’n bleser gennyf gyhoeddi i gam cyntaf y rhaglen Cynllun Gwên ddechrau fis diwethaf, ac mae eisoes yn darparu rhaglenni brwsio dannedd mewn ymhell dros 100 o ysgolion. Caiff y rhaglen hon ei chyflwyno’n raddol ar draws y ddwy ardal beilot fawr sy’n cwmpasu’r gogledd, Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr, Rhondda Cynon Taf, Merthyr Tudful, Caerdydd ac ardaloedd Bro Morgannwg. Mae nifer o ysgolion yn Abertawe hefyd yn cymryd rhan yn y rhaglen.

While the review of the dental contract and the subsequent consultation on its findings clearly shows that the dental profession wants to work with the current system, there is still much to do. While we have stabilised NHS dentistry in Wales and built foundations for the future, we now need to ensure that the dental contract is working as well as it possibly can and is delivering benefits to the public and those working in the dental profession.

Er bod yr adolygiad o gontractau deintyddol a’r ymgynghoriad dilynol ar ei ganfyddiadau yn dangos yn glir fod y proffesiwn deintyddol am weithio â’r system bresennol, mae llawer i’w wneud o hyd. Er ein bod wedi sefydlogi deintyddiaeth y GIG yng Nghymru ac adeiladu sylfeini ar gyfer y dyfodol, bellach mae angen inni sicrhau bod y contract deintyddol yn gweithio cystal ag y mae’n bosibl iddo wneud a’i fod yn sicrhau manteision i’r cyhoedd a’r rhai sy’n gweithio yn y proffesiwn deintyddol.

Jonathan Morgan: I thank the Minister for the statement, which we welcome. We also welcome the review that has taken place, because we were concerned that when the dental contract was designed it was not universally welcomed by the profession; it was the only reform to the professional contracts that was not universally welcomed and there was significant doubt as to whether the contract would deliver the outcomes that we all want to see.

Jonathon  Morgan: Diolch i’r Gweinidog am y datganiad, a groesewir gennym. Yr ydym hefyd yn croesawu’r ffaith i’r adolygiad gael ei gynnal, oherwydd yr oeddem yn pryderu pan luniwyd y contract deintyddol na chafodd ei groesawu’n unfrydol gan y proffesiwn; hwn oedd yr unig ddiwygiad i’r contractau proffesiynol na chafodd groeso unfrydol ac yr oedd amheuaeth fawr ynghylch a fyddai’r contract yn cyflawni’r canlyniadau y mae pawb ohonom am eu gweld.

I will deal briefly with two issues that were not mentioned in the statement, and then go on to issues to which you have referred. We know that in the first year of the contract there was a £22 million underspend by local health boards on the provision of dental services, which continued into the second year. What confidence can patients have that money allocated for dental services will be spent on dental services? What levels of expertise will there be in the new system to ensure that dental services are provided in a professional way?

Bydd y cyrff iechyd newydd y byddwn yn sôn amdanynt yn ddiweddarach y prynhawn yma yn gyfrifol am ofal sylfaenol ac am y contract deintyddol, ac er eich bod yn cael gwared ar y system prynwr/darparwr, deallaf y bydd contract yn parhau’n weithredol ar gyfer gwasanaethau deintyddol. Pa sicrwydd y gallwch ei roi y gwelwn wasanaethau lleol arloesol yn cael eu darparu ac nid eu llesteirio gan broses gwneud penderfyniadau sy’n feichus yn y saith sefydliad hyn, sy’n llawer mwy, gan y bydd hynny’n peri pryder? Mae’n sicr yn peri pryder i lawer o ddeintyddion yng Nghymru.

3.30 p.m.

You said in your statement that many of the group’s recommendations met with universal support, and you referred to the wish for dental practitioners to introduce a discretionary charge for patients who fail to attend appointments. During the summer, I visited an orthodontic practice in Cardiff, where the orthodontist told me that, under the old contract, an average of one week in 52 weeks was lost because people did not turn up, but that, under the new contract, they are losing eight weeks in 52 weeks, because people do not act in a responsible way. When there was a threat of a charge, people would at least ring up to say, 'I can’t make the appointment tomorrow and these are the reasons’. Often, dentists did not charge them, but there was a threat that persuaded people to act in a more responsible way. We need to return to that, because dentists and orthodontists are losing so much time. I would appreciate any further thoughts on that.

Dywedasoch yn eich datganiad fod cefnogaeth gyffredinol i lawer o argymhellion y grŵp, a chyfeiriasoch at yr awydd i weld ymarferwyr deintyddol yn codi tâl, os dymunant, ar gleifion nad ydynt yn mynychu apwyntiadau. Yn ystod yr haf, ymwelais â phractis orthodontig yng Nghaerdydd. Dywedodd yr orthodontydd yno wrthyf fod y practis, ar gyfartaledd, yn colli un wythnos o bob 52 wythnos, dan yr hen gontract, am nad oedd pobl yn mynychu eu hapwyntiadau, ond ei fod, dan y contract newydd, yn colli wyth wythnos o bob 52 wythnos, oherwydd ymddygiad anghyfrifol pobl. Pan oedd bygythiad y byddai tâl, byddai pobl o leiaf yn ffonio i ddweud, 'Ni allaf ddod i’r apwyntiad yfory a dyma’r rhesymau’. Yn aml iawn, nid oedd deintyddion yn codi tâl arnynt, ond yr oedd y bygythiad yn perswadio pobl i ymddwyn yn fwy cyfrifol. Mae angen inni ddychwelyd at hynny, oherwydd y mae deintyddion ac orthodontyddion yn colli cymaint o amser. Os oes gennych ryw farn bellach ynglŷn â hynny, hoffwn glywed.

You also talked about the unanimous support for growing primary care allocations for dental services. This is absolutely vital, and I ask you to consider how to secure growth in the budget in the future to ensure that vocational trainees are kept on and that there is a degree of innovation in the contract. We accept that there must be a core contract, but prevention needs to be built in, so that there are local solutions to preventative projects, and that there can be—I hate to use the word 'commissioning’, but I must do so, unless we come up with a different term—commissioning of added extras, which could be interesting in terms of finding local preventative solutions, where preventative work needs to be done. That is absolutely crucial.

Siaradasoch hefyd am y gefnogaeth unfrydol i gynyddu dyraniadau gofal sylfaenol ar gyfer gwasanaethau deintyddol. Mae hyn yn gwbl hanfodol, a gofynnaf ichi ystyried sut y gellir cynyddu’r gyllideb yn y dyfodol er mwyn sicrhau bod hyfforddeion galwedigaethol yn cael eu cadw a bod rhywfaint o dorri tir newydd yn y contract. Yr ydym yn cydnabod bod yn rhaid cael contract craidd, ond mae angen cynnwys camau ataliol, er mwyn cael atebion lleol i brosiectau ataliol, ac er mwyn gallu—nid wyf yn hoffi defnyddio’r gair 'comisiynu’, ond mae’n rhaid imi wneud, oni bai ein bod yn gallu cael term gwahanol—comisiynu elfennau ychwanegol, a allai fod yn ddiddorol o ran dod o hyd i atebion ataliol lleol, lle y mae angen gwneud gwaith ataliol. Mae hynny’n hollbwysig.

I have a few questions, Minister, with regard to those areas of dental services where we need to do more work. You said that you have asked the group to identify the areas that have not been adequately addressed. I ask you to consider the issue of data collection. There is no definitive number available of whole-time equivalent dentists in Wales. If someone were to ask us how many whole-time equivalent dentists we have in Wales today, we could not tell them. Dentistry is one of the few parts, if not the only part, of the NHS where this data is not collected. We will not know how many dentists to train and recruit if we do not know how many dentists we have. It is clear, Minister, that if we had the data and if we knew where the gaps were, we would understand how many people need to be trained and how many need to be recruited, particularly in deprived areas and in rural areas, where they have struggled to recruit dentists. I would appreciate your thoughts as to how we tackle that.

Mae gennyf ychydig o gwestiynau, Weinidog, ynglŷn â’r agweddau hynny ar wasanaethau deintyddol lle y mae angen inni wneud mwy o waith. Dywedasoch eich bod wedi gofyn i’r grŵp nodi’r meysydd nad ydynt wedi cael sylw digonol. Gofynnaf ichi ystyried mater casglu data. Nid oes ffigurau pendant sy’n dangos faint o ddeintyddion cyfwerth ag amser llawn sydd gennym yng Nghymru. Petai rhywun yn gofyn inni faint o ddeintyddion cyfwerth ag amser llawn sydd gennym yng Nghymru heddiw, ni allem ddweud wrtho. Mae deintyddiaeth yn un o’r ychydig rannau, os nad yr unig ran, o’r GIG lle na chesglir y data hyn. Ni fyddwn yn gwybod faint o ddeintyddion i’w hyfforddi a’u recriwtio os nad ydym yn gwybod faint o ddeintyddion sydd gennym. Mae’n amlwg, Weinidog, petai’r data gennym, a phe gwyddem ym mhle y mae’r bylchau, y byddem yn deall faint o bobl y mae angen eu hyfforddi a faint y mae angen eu recriwtio, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig ac ardaloedd gwledig, sydd wedi bod yn cael trafferth recriwtio deintyddion. Byddwn yn hoffi gwybod beth yw eich barn ynglŷn â sut y dylem fynd i’r afael â hynny.

My final point is on the rolling out of the work that has been done with schools. I am delighted that work is being done with schools. What consideration has been given to the projects that are taking place in mainland Europe? I am aware, for example, of projects in Scandinavian countries where schools have a programme of fluoride mouth washing. That is an interesting way of ensuring that children have access to a variety of dental hygiene options, and of improving the oral hygiene of school pupils in Scandinavian countries. Have you considered that? Can you outline what other measures the Government might be considering?

Mae fy mhwynt olaf yn ymwneud â datblygu’r gwaith sydd wedi cael ei wneud gydag ysgolion. Yr wyf yn falch iawn bod gwaith yn cael ei wneud gydag ysgolion. Pa ystyriaeth sydd wedi cael ei rhoi i’r prosiectau sy’n cael eu cynnal ar dir mawr Ewrop? Gwn, er enghraifft, am brosiectau yng ngwledydd Llychlyn lle y mae gan ysgolion raglen golchi cegau â fflworid. Mae hynny’n ffordd ddiddorol o sicrhau bod gwahanol ddewisiadau yn ymwneud â hylendid deintyddol ar gael i blant, ac o wella hylendid cegau plant ysgol yng ngwledydd Llychlyn. A ydych wedi ystyried hynny? A allwch amlinellu pa gamau eraill y gallai’r Llywodraeth fod yn eu hystyried?

On that issue, and the preventative agenda, if the Government was able to invest in dental nurses with the right level of training, and if resources were made available to register those dental nurses, they could be part of a workforce that ensured that the preventative agenda was expanded. We know that there is only one way of ensuring that the oral health of the nation is improved, by tackling some of the huge problems that are faced by large numbers of toddlers and young children in primary school. That is a preventative agenda. It is also an information agenda for parents and families who do not seem to be particularly good at ensuring that their children’s teeth are looked after. I would be interested to hear what particular plans you have for the dental nursing profession, because it has a key role to play.

O ran y mater hwnnw, a’r agenda ataliol, petai’r Llywodraeth yn gallu buddsoddi mewn nyrsys deintyddol gyda’r hyfforddiant priodol, a phetai adnoddau ar gael er mwyn cofrestru’r nyrsys deintyddol hynny, gallent fod yn rhan o weithlu a fyddai’n sicrhau bod yr agenda ataliol yn cael ei hehangu. Gwyddom nad oes ond un ffordd o sicrhau bod iechyd geneuol y genedl yn cael ei wella, sef drwy fynd i’r afael â rhai o’r problemau aruthrol a wynebir gan nifer fawr o fabanod a phlant ifanc yn yr ysgol gynradd. Agenda ataliol yw hynny. Mae hefyd yn agenda wybodaeth ar gyfer rhieni a theuluoedd nad ydynt fel petaent yn dda iawn am sicrhau bod dannedd eu plant yn cael gofal. Hoffwn glywed pa gynlluniau penodol sydd gennych ar gyfer y proffesiwn nyrsio deintyddol, gan fod ganddo ran allweddol i’w chwarae.

Edwina Hart: Thank you for your contribution. I will start with some of your last points, because the key is what we do with our children and how we give our children good habits. Some good habits come from the home, but some do not. When I was out and about, visiting the Community Dental Service and seeing what it was doing, I met children who did not know what a toothbrush was until they came to school and who did not know how to clean their teeth. That is why the Designed to Smile initiative is important, but it is just the start of the work that is needed in this area.

Edwina Hart: Diolch ichi am eich cyfraniad. Yr wyf am ddechrau gyda rhai o’r pwyntiau olaf a godwyd gennych, oherwydd y peth pwysig yw beth yr ydym yn ei wneud gyda’n plant a sut yr ydym yn rhoi arferion da i’n plant. Mae rhai arferion da’n dod o’r cartref, ond nid pob un. Pan oeddwn yn mynd o gwmpas, yn ymweld â’r Gwasanaeth Deintyddol Cymunedol ac yn gweld beth yr oedd yn ei wneud, cyfarfûm â phlant nad oeddent yn gwybod beth oedd brws dannedd nes iddynt ddod i’r ysgol ac nad oeddent yn gwybod sut i lanhau eu dannedd. Dyna pam y mae’r fenter Cynllun Gwên yn bwysig, ond dim ond man cychwyn ydyw o ran y gwaith y mae angen ei wneud yn y maes hwn.

Jonathan is right that we must look at examples and initiatives from further afield in Europe. I have asked the Community Dental Service and my officials to look at what more work we can do to build on excellent initiatives from abroad—whether we can import them to improve the nation’s oral health.

Mae Jonathan yn llygad ei le fod yn rhaid inni edrych ar enghreifftiau a mentrau yng ngwledydd eraill Ewrop. Yr wyf wedi gofyn i’r Gwasanaeth Deintyddol Cymunedol a’m swyddogion edrych ar beth arall y gallwn ei wneud i ddatblygu mentrau rhagorol o wledydd tramor—a allwn eu mewnforio er mwyn gwella iechyd geneuol y genedl.

The other points that you made about the workforce in particular are very important, including the fact that there is a need for accurate data collection so that we can do more planning in this area as our resources allow, and so that we can make further investment. I am happy to take that back to the group so that it can take a detailed look at some of these issues and make further suggestions.

Mae’r pwyntiau eraill a wnaethpwyd gennych, yn enwedig ynglŷn â’r gweithlu, yn bwysig iawn, gan gynnwys y ffaith bod angen casglu data cywir er mwyn inni allu gwneud mwy o waith cynllunio yn y maes hwn, pan fydd ein hadnoddau’n caniatáu, ac er mwyn inni allu buddsoddi rhagor. Yr wyf yn fodlon mynd â’r neges honno yn ôl i’r grŵp er mwyn iddo allu edrych yn fanwl ar rai o’r materion hyn a gwneud rhagor o awgrymiadau.

You made valid points about the fact that we could use dental nurses more imaginatively, what more work we could do with them and what we will require in future from the profession as it develops. I have been particularly concerned about some of the letters that I have received from Assembly Members since I have been Minister for Health and Social Services about what is happening with expenditure on dental services. I have been looking at the allocations that have been made to local health boards and at where their spending is to date within this financial year. I am ensuring that this money is being spent on the appropriate purposes, and we will continue to monitor that on a quarterly basis to ensure that the allocations that we have made for dentistry are spent properly, which should be possible. You have my assurance on that.

Gwnaethoch bwyntiau dilys ynglŷn â’r ffaith y gallem ddefnyddio nyrsys deintyddol mewn ffyrdd mwy creadigol, pa waith arall y gallem ei wneud gyda hwy a beth y byddwn yn ei ddisgwyl gan y proffesiwn yn y dyfodol wrth iddo ddatblygu. Yr wyf wedi bod yn pryderu cryn dipyn ynglŷn â rhai o’r llythyrau a anfonwyd ataf gan Aelodau o’r Cynulliad ers imi ddod yn Weinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ynghylch yr hyn sy’n digwydd gyda gwariant ar wasanaethau deintyddol. Yr wyf wedi bod yn edrych ar y dyraniadau sydd wedi cael eu gwneud i fyrddau iechyd lleol ac ar eu gwariant hyd yn hyn yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon. Yr wyf yn sicrhau bod yr arian hwn yn cael ei wario ar yr amcanion priodol, a byddwn yn dal i fonitro hynny’n chwarterol er mwyn sicrhau bod y dyraniadau yr ydym wedi’u gwneud ar gyfer deintyddiaeth yn cael eu gwario’n briodol. Dylai hynny fod yn bosibl. Gallaf eich sicrhau ynglŷn â hynny.

With regard to the new bodies, it is an issue for us how to ensure that we keep the innovation that exists with regard to things that are done in dentistry in certain areas and how we get the balance in the large organisations. It is something that we will have to discuss further with regard to the role of dentistry, because how dentistry services are dealt with will remain integral to these organisations.

O ran y cyrff newydd, mater i ni yw sut yr ydym yn sicrhau ein bod yn cadw’r arloesedd sy’n bodoli o ran pethau sy’n cael eu gwneud ym maes deintyddiaeth mewn rhai ardaloedd a sut yr ydym yn sicrhau cydbwysedd yn y sefydliadau mawr. Mae rôl deintyddiaeth yn fater y bydd yn rhaid inni ei drafod yn fanylach, oherwydd bydd sut yr ymdrinnir â gwasanaethau deintyddiaeth yn hanfodol o hyd i’r sefydliadau hyn.

On missed appointments, I agree with you, Jonathan, that the number of appointments that people break without advising the surgery is an absolute scandal. We have all been in that position, perhaps if we have a cold, but we can all ring up to cancel an appointment. There is nothing in this day and age stopping anyone from picking up the phone, or in some cases e-mailing, the dental surgery to say that they cannot come. There is always a waiting list of people that the surgery can call to come for an appointment at short notice. That message has been welcomed, and one of the most positive responses that we had related to the ability to charge. I am taking these matters forward.

O ran apwyntiadau nad ydynt yn cael eu cadw, yr wyf yn cytuno â chi, Jonathan, fod nifer yr apwyntiadau y mae pobl yn eu colli heb hysbysu’r ddeintyddfa’n gywilyddus. Mae pob un ohonom wedi bod yn y sefyllfa honno, gan fod gennym annwyd o bosibl, ond gallwn i gyd ffonio i ganslo apwyntiad. Yn yr oes sydd ohoni nid oes dim i’n rhwystro rhag codi’r ffôn, neu anfon e-bost mewn rhai achosion, a rhoi gwybod i’r ddeintyddfa na allwn ddod. Mae gan y ddeintyddfa bob amser restr aros o bobl y gall gysylltu â hwy i fynychu apwyntiad ar fyr rybudd. Mae’r neges honno wedi cael ei chroesawu, ac yr oedd un o’r ymatebion mwyaf cadarnhaol a gawsom yn ymwneud â’r gallu i godi tâl. Yr wyf yn bwrw ymlaen â’r materion hyn.

There are many issues about vocational trainees; there has been a great deal of discussion about this, the numbers of vocational trainees that we will require and how we need to get proper coverage as part of how we deal with dentistry in Wales. However, it is very difficult, because they are contractors to the NHS. If we consider the dental service for which the state is responsible, it would require enormous investment to allow everyone access to it. In the main, what comes through is that they are relatively happy with the way in which things are going, although there is a great deal more work to do. Therefore, I have decided to go back to the experts who advise me to ask them to look into the detail of this. I will then come back to report to the Assembly on how we take matters forward with regard to dentistry.

Mae llawer o bwyntiau sy’n ymwneud â hyfforddeion galwedigaethol; bu llawer o drafod ynglŷn â hyn, faint o hyfforddeion galwedigaethol y bydd arnom eu hangen a sut y mae angen inni gael nifer priodol fel rhan o’r ffordd yr ydym yn ymdrin â deintyddiaeth yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, mae’n anodd iawn, oherwydd y maent yn gontractwyr i’r GIG. Os ystyriwn y gwasanaeth deintyddol y mae’r wladwriaeth yn gyfrifol amdano, byddai angen buddsoddiad aruthrol i ganiatáu i bawb ei ddefnyddio. Yn bennaf, yr hyn sy’n dod yn amlwg yw eu bod yn gymharol fodlon ar y ffordd y mae pethau’n mynd, er bod llawer iawn mwy o waith i’w wneud. Felly, yr wyf wedi penderfynu mynd yn ôl at yr arbenigwyr sy’n fy nghynghori i ofyn iddynt edrych ar fanylion hyn. Deuaf yn ôl wedyn i adrodd i’r Cynulliad ynglŷn â sut yr ydym yn datblygu’r materion yng nghyd-destun deintyddiaeth.

David Lloyd: I also welcome the statement and commend the way forward adopted by the Minister. I commend the hard work undertaken by the review group, which completed its work in July and has made a number of recommendations.

David Lloyd: Yr wyf finnau’n croesawu’r datganiad ac yn cymeradwyo’r camau a fabwysiadwyd gan y Gweinidog er mwyn symud ymlaen. Yr wyf yn cymeradwyo’r gwaith caled sydd wedi cael ei wneud gan y grŵp adolygu, a gwblhaodd ei waith ym mis Gorffennaf ac sydd wedi gwneud nifer o argymhellion.

Like many people here, I come from a standpoint of regarding dentistry as a core pursuit of the NHS. I am glad that the Minister said at the end of her statement that she is confident that we have stabilised NHS dentistry in Wales, because it is one of the top issues that concerns our constituents as well as NHS patients in general.  

Fel llawer o bobl yma, yr wyf yn ystyried deintyddiaeth yn un o weithgareddau craidd y GIG. Yr wyf yn falch bod y Gweinidog wedi dweud ar ddiwedd ei datganiad ei bod yn ffyddiog ein bod wedi sefydlogi deintyddiaeth y GIG yng Nghymru, oherwydd y mae’n un o’r prif faterion sy’n peri pryder i’n hetholwyr yn ogystal â chleifion y GIG yn gyffredinol.  

Building on Jonathan Morgan’s point that we do not know exactly how many whole-time equivalent dentists there are in Wales, we do not appear to be collecting figures of how many patients are registered with an NHS dentist in Wales either. There is probably a variety of reasons for that, one of which may be that, with the new contract, we are concentrating on counting the number of treatments rather than recording who the individual patient is registered with. My initial thought is that we cannot get a handle on the number of adults or children in Wales who are registered with an NHS dentist. I would like to make a plea that we have that information readily available, because it is an indicator of how successful NHS dentistry is at reaching patients.

Gan adeiladu ar bwynt Jonathan Morgan na wyddom faint yn union o ddeintyddion cyfwerth ag amser llawn sydd yng Nghymru, nid yw’n ymddangos ein bod yn casglu ffigurau ynglŷn â faint o gleifion sydd wedi’u cofrestru gyda deintyddion y GIG yng Nghymru ychwaith. Mae’n debyg bod rhesymau amrywiol dros hynny, ac un o’r rheini, mae’n bosibl, yw ein bod yn canolbwyntio, gyda’r contract newydd, ar gyfrif nifer y triniaethau yn hytrach na chofnodi gyda phwy y mae’r claf unigol wedi’i gofrestru. Fy marn gychwynnol yw na allwn gael gwybodaeth ynghylch nifer yr oedolion neu’r plant sydd wedi’u cofrestru gyda deintyddion y GIG yng Nghymru. Hoffwn wneud apêl er mwyn sicrhau bod y wybodaeth honno ar gael yn rhwydd, oherwydd y mae’n dangos i ba raddau y mae deintyddiaeth y GIG yn llwyddo i gyrraedd cleifion.

3.40 p.m.

Moving on to the preventative oral health agenda and health promotion in general, one of the main reasons that I feel so strongly about dentistry being a part of the NHS is that one of its core raisons d’être is to detect oral cancer in patients when it is at the very early stage. There are 2,000 deaths in the United Kingdom every year from the various cancers that can be found inside the mouth. They are difficult to detect, other than by experts. Those experts are the dentists. We need to ensure that we have ready access to NHS dentists so that we can pick up those cancers at an early stage. By the time people have turned up at their GP’s surgery with a lump that is obvious, usually the cancer is at an advanced stage and there is not much that the medical profession can do about it. We are totally dependent, as a nation, on the contribution of dentists in detecting early oral cancers. That is why we must have ease of access to NHS dentists. There is no bigger topic in terms of the preventative health idea. Everyone equates dentistry with teeth, which is fine, but, more importantly, it needs to be equated with cancer detection. Sometimes, we lose sight of that.

Gan symud ymlaen at yr agenda’n ymwneud ag iechyd geneuol ataliol a hybu iechyd yn gyffredinol, un o’r prif resymau pam yr wyf yn teimlo mor gryf y dylai deintyddiaeth fod yn rhan o’r GIG yw mai un o’i dibenion craidd yw canfod canser y geg mewn cleifion yn gynnar iawn. Mae 2,000 o farwolaethau yn y Deyrnas Unedig bob blwyddyn oherwydd y canserau amrywiol sydd i’w canfod yn y geg. Maent yn anodd eu canfod, ac eithrio gan arbenigwyr. Yr arbenigwyr hynny yw’r deintyddion. Mae angen inni sicrhau bod deintyddion ar gael yn rhwydd dan y GIG er mwyn inni allu canfod y canserau hynny’n gynnar. Erbyn i bobl gyrraedd meddygfa’r meddyg teulu gyda lwmp amlwg, mae’r canser fel rheol wedi datblygu ac nid oes llawer y gall y proffesiwn meddygol ei wneud. Yr ydym yn gwbl ddibynnol, fel cenedl, ar gyfraniad deintyddion er mwyn canfod canser y geg yn gynnar. Dyna pam y mae’n rhaid i ddeintyddion y GIG fod ar gael yn rhwydd i ni. Nid oes pwnc pwysicach yng nghyd-destun iechyd ataliol. Mae pawb yn cysylltu deintyddiaeth â dannedd, sy’n iawn, ond, yn bwysicach na hynny, mae angen cysylltu deintyddiaeth â chanfod canser. Yr ydym yn colli golwg ar hynny ambell waith.

I will not rehearse all of the arguments about the complications regarding the banding payments that we have already heard, which I am sure the Minister will be glad to hear, but, within this revised contract, another issue that concerns patients is that, when they have a complex dental need, with many dental issues, they can be accommodated within this revised dental contract. People out there want reassurance on that point as well as reassurance that NHS dentistry will not only be stabilised, but strengthened and will be a far stronger force than it has been hitherto, as it has always appeared to be destabilised and fragmented. Patients want to see a strong, revitalised and improved NHS dentistry service.

Nid wyf am ailadrodd yr holl ddadleuon ynglŷn â’r cymhlethdodau sy’n gysylltiedig â’r taliadau bandiau y clywsom amdanynt yn barod, ac mae’n siŵr y bydd y Gweinidog yn falch o glywed hynny, ond mater arall sy’n peri pryder i gleifion yw na all y contract deintyddol diwygiedig hwn ddarparu ar eu cyfer pan fydd ganddynt angen deintyddol cymhleth a phroblemau deintyddol niferus. Mae ar bobl gyffredin eisiau sicrwydd ynglŷn â’r pwynt hwnnw yn ogystal â sicrwydd y bydd deintyddiaeth y GIG yn cael ei sefydlogi a’i chryfhau, ac y bydd yn rym llawer cryfach nag y mae wedi bod hyd yn hyn, gan ei bod bob amser wedi ymddangos yn ansefydlog ac yn dameidiog. Mae cleifion yn dymuno gweld gwasanaeth deintyddol cryf, wedi’i adfywio a’i wella dan y GIG.

Edwina Hart: Thank you, Dr Lloyd. The issue that you raised regarding banded charges is key in this. The consultation highlighted concerns that they are too broad, because band 2 covers one or 20 fillings. There is also the lack of an incentive for preventative work, which is at the centre of the points that you made with regard to dentistry, or to take on patients with a high degree of dental needs; that is also an issue. In some areas, you need to take on patients with a high degree of dental needs—they could be homeless, or from socially deprived areas. We have to look at the way in which we deal with that system. This is a complex area and is the subject of ongoing work by the sub-group. That is one area that it will have to take forward. That is a challenging agenda to reform, and there will also be financial implications for the Government, which we will have to look at if we are to take some of those issues forward. That is one of the areas that I will return to once the sub-group has finished its discussion on it.

Edwina Hart: Diolch, Dr Lloyd. Mae’r pwynt a godwyd gennych ynglŷn â thaliadau bandiau yn allweddol yn y cyswllt hwn. Mynegwyd pryder yn ystod yr ymgynghoriad fod y bandiau’n rhy eang, oherwydd y mae band 2 yn cynnwys un neu 20 o lenwadau. Nid oes digon o gymhelliant i wneud gwaith ataliol ychwaith, sy’n ganolog o ran y pwyntiau a godwyd gennych ynglŷn â deintyddiaeth, nac i dderbyn cleifion sydd â llawer o anghenion deintyddol; mae hynny hefyd yn broblem. Mewn rhai ardaloedd, mae angen ichi dderbyn cleifion sydd â llawer o anghenion deintyddol—gallent fod yn bobl ddigartref, neu’n bobl o ardaloedd lle y mae amddifadedd cymdeithasol. Rhaid inni edrych ar y ffordd yr ydym yn ymdrin â’r system honno. Mae hwn yn faes cymhleth, ac mae’r is-grŵp yn edrych arno ar hyn o bryd. Mae hynny’n un maes y bydd yn rhaid iddo’i ystyried. Mae honno’n agenda anodd iawn ei diwygio, a bydd goblygiadau ariannol hefyd i’r Llywodraeth, y bydd yn rhaid inni edrych arnynt os ydym am weithredu ynghylch rhai o’r materion hynny. Mae hynny’n un o’r meysydd y byddaf yn dychwelyd ato pan fydd yr is-grŵp wedi gorffen ei drafodaeth arno.

You alluded to some of the statistics issues. We can say how many people have been treated by the NHS—we know that 1.6 million patients are recorded as having been treated in the 24 months to 31 December 2007. However, that does not tell you how many people are on anyone’s books in a real sense. It amounts to around 54 per cent of the population. We know the number of people because we have the online payment system. The number of dentists recorded as being on the system in March 2007 was 1,186. Therefore, we have some statistical information, but I sense that both you and Jonathan Morgan would like more detailed statistics in the hope that it would help us to make better decisions in terms of what we require.

Cyfeiriasoch at rai o’r pwyntiau sy’n ymwneud ag ystadegau. Gallwn ddweud faint o bobl sydd wedi cael triniaeth gan y GIG—gwyddom fod 1.6 miliwn o gleifion wedi cael eu cofnodi fel rhai a gafodd driniaeth yn ystod y 24 mis hyd at 31 Rhagfyr 2007. Fodd bynnag, nid yw hynny’n dweud wrthych faint o bobl sydd ar lyfrau neb mewn gwirionedd. Mae’n cyfateb i tua 54 y cant o’r boblogaeth. Gwyddom nifer y bobl gan fod y system taliadau ar-lein gennym. Yr oedd nifer y deintyddion a oedd wedi cael eu cofnodi’n rhai ar y system ym Mawrth 2007 yn 1,186. Felly, mae gennym wybodaeth ystadegol, ond yr wyf yn synhwyro y byddech chi a Jonathan Morgan yn hoffi cael ystadegau manylach gan obeithio y byddent yn ein helpu i wneud gwell penderfyniadau ynglŷn â’r hyn y mae arnom ei angen.

You are right to say that dentists deal with more than teeth; the mouth is sensitive and dentists can pick up other illnesses and other health issues. Therefore, it is important that people regularly visit their dentist, not only to worry about their teeth, but to look after their long-term health. I take that preventative work quite seriously and hope that we can move the dentistry agenda in that direction over the next few years.

Yr ydych yn llygad eich lle wrth ddweud bod deintyddion yn ymdrin â mwy na dannedd yn unig; mae’r geg yn sensitif a gall deintyddion ddarganfod anhwylderau a phroblemau iechyd eraill. Felly, mae’n bwysig i bobl ymweld â’u deintydd yn rheolaidd, nid yn unig er mwyn gofalu am eu dannedd, ond hefyd er mwyn gofalu am eu hiechyd hirdymor. Yr wyf yn cymryd y gwaith ataliol hwnnw o ddifrif a gobeithiaf y gallwn symud agenda deintyddiaeth i’r cyfeiriad hwnnw yn ystod y blynyddoedd nesaf.

Jenny Randerson: Diolch, Weinidog, am y datganiad hwn. Mae’n braf gweld y bydd rhywfaint o gynnydd yn cael ei wneud o’r diwedd. Mae hon wedi bod yn stori drychinebus; yr oedd yr arwyddion rhybuddiol i gyd yno ar y dechrau un. Po fwyaf yr edrychaf ar y cymariaethau rhwng Cymru a’r Alban, a ddewisodd beidio â derbyn y contract newydd, po fwyaf y gallaf weld y gellid bod wedi osgoi’r holl broblemau drwy gadw at yr hen gontract a’i ddiweddaru.

First, I want to ask about the work being done on units of dental activity, which I welcome. It is clear that the UDAs—which, quite extraordinarily, were never piloted—are wrongly structured and have produced some perverse results. The big gap is in rewarding dentists for doing work on prevention. Does that work being done include the issue of preventative treatment?

Yn gyntaf, hoffwn holi ynghylch y gwaith a wneir ar unedau gweithgaredd deintyddol, a groesawaf. Mae’n amlwg bod strwythur yr unedau gweithgaredd deintyddol—na chawsant eu treialu erioed, sy’n anghredadwy—yn anghywir ac maent wedi cynhyrchu rhai canlyniadau gwrthnysig. Mae bwlch mawr o ran gwobrwyo deintyddion am wneud gwaith ataliol. A yw’r gwaith hwnnw sy’n cael ei wneud yn cynnwys triniaeth ataliol?

Minister, you mentioned the care of the vulnerable in society, including children and people with special needs, but you did not mention the elderly. In a report that came out yesterday, based on research done at Cardiff University, it was clear that the community dental service is failing that particular group. That research found that the community dental service is the routine port of call for more than 40 per cent of that group of elderly people in nursing and care homes, but that 40 per cent of care homes stated that they had difficulty getting routine care and 30 per cent even had difficulty getting emergency care. I am concerned that particular attention be paid to the care of elderly people, because we are all living longer, and older people retain more of their natural teeth than previous generations and so need ongoing care that has not been required to the same level in the past.

Weinidog, soniasoch am ofal i’r rhai mwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas, gan gynnwys plant a phobl a chanddynt anghenion arbennig, ond ni soniasoch am yr henoed. Mewn adroddiad a gyhoeddwyd ddoe, yn seiliedig ar waith ymchwil a wnaethpwyd ym Mhrifysgol Caerdydd, yr oedd yn amlwg bod y gwasanaeth deintyddol cymunedol yn siomi’r grŵp arbennig hwnnw. Canfu’r ymchwil honno mai’r gwasanaeth deintyddol cymunedol yw’r pwynt cyswllt arferol i fwy na 40 y cant o’r grŵp hwnnw o henoed mewn cartrefi nyrsio a chartrefi gofal, ond bod 40 y cant o gartrefi gofal wedi dweud eu bod wedi cael anhawster cael gofal rheolaidd a 30 y cant wedi cael anhawster cael gofal brys hyd yn oed. Yr wyf yn pryderu y dylid rhoi sylw penodol i ofal am yr henoed, oherwydd yr ydym oll yn byw’n hwy, ac mae pobl hŷn yn cadw mwy o’u dannedd naturiol na chenedlaethau’r gorffennol ac felly mae angen gofal parhaus arnynt nad oedd ei angen i’r un graddau yn y gorffennol.

I am delighted with the Designed to Smile initiative, but please allow me a small smile of my own given that it was included in the Welsh Liberal Democrat manifesto for the most recent Assembly elections, and I distinctly remember a number of your Labour colleagues totally rubbishing it. However, the sinner repenteth, and I am pleased that you have seen the value of the initiative, Minister. I am delighted to see the superpilot areas and the sorts of areas that they cover, but how long do you envisage it taking to be rolled out across Wales?

The big gap in what you have said, Minister, is orthodontics. There is a general problem with orthodontics across Wales, but a particular problem in west Wales, especially in Carmarthenshire. Across Wales, funding for orthodontics has tended to be cut, but, in Carmarthenshire, it is funded at about half the rate of the demand. In other words, it could do with twice the money if it is to treat all the patients that need to be seen. The waiting lists are so long that there is genuine concern that many of the people on it will reach their eighteenth birthday and will no longer be eligible for NHS treatment. I am told that 850 people are waiting on one list alone. Alongside that, hospital orthodontic treatment in that area has collapsed, because the primary care is no longer there to complement it, as would normally be expected. Minister, you have acknowledged problems with orthodontics previously, but I am sorry to see that absolutely no reference is made to it in your statement. I would welcome clarification on what you see as the solution to that problem.

Y bwlch mawr yn yr hyn yr ydych wedi’i ddweud, Weinidog, yw orthodonteg. Mae problem gyffredinol gydag orthodonteg ledled Cymru, ond mae problem benodol yn y gorllewin, yn arbennig yn sir Gaerfyrddin. Ledled Cymru, mae cyllid ar gyfer orthodonteg wedi tueddu i gael ei gwtogi, ond, yn sir Gaerfyrddin, caiff ei ariannu ar tua hanner lefel y galw. Mewn geiriau eraill, mae angen cymaint ddwywaith o arian os yw i drin yr holl gleifion y mae angen iddynt gael eu gweld. Mae’r rhestrau aros mor faith fel bod pryder gwirioneddol y bydd llawer o’r bobl sydd arnynt yn cyrraedd eu pen-blwydd yn ddeunaw oed ac na fyddant yn gymwys i gael triniaeth gan y GIG mwyach. Dywedir wrthyf fod 850 o bobl yn aros ar un rhestr yn unig. Ochr yn ochr â hynny, mae triniaeth orthodonteg mewn ysbytai yn yr ardal honno wedi mynd ar chwâl, oherwydd nid yw’r gofal sylfaenol yno mwyach i’w ategu, fel y disgwylid yn arferol. Weinidog, yr ydych wedi cydnabod problemau gydag orthodonteg o’r blaen, ond mae’n ddrwg gennyf weld nad oes dim cyfeiriad o gwbl ato yn eich datganiad. Byddwn yn croesawu eglurhad ynghylch yr ateb i’r broblem honno yn eich barn chi.

Edwina Hart: I will deal with the orthodontics issue first. I think it fair to say that orthodontics have not received sufficient coverage in the report that I have had, but there will be scope for further work in that area, and I give my commitment that that will be taken forward. It is important that we look at the issue holistically.

3.50 p.m.

I have looked at the funding figures and found no cuts in the national funding for orthodontic treatment since the introduction of the new contract. Under the new dental contract, like other contracts, it is historical activity that is looked at, so perhaps we need to look at what we want from orthodontic services now. I am happy to take your comments on board. I will refer them to Professor Richards who can undertake further work in that area and report to me on how to deal with it.

Yr wyf wedi edrych ar y ffigurau o ran cyllid ac nid wyf wedi gweld dim toriadau yn y cyllid cenedlaethol ar gyfer triniaeth orthodonteg ers cyflwyno’r contract newydd. Dan y contract deintyddol newydd, yr un fath â chontractau eraill, edrychir ar weithgaredd hanesyddol, felly efallai fod angen inni edrych ar yr hyn yr ydym yn dymuno’i gael gan wasanaethau orthodonteg yn awr. Yr wyf yn fodlon ystyried eich sylwadau. Fe’u cyfeiriaf at yr Athro Richards a all wneud rhagor o waith yn y maes hwnnw a chyflwyno adroddiad imi ynghylch sut i ymdrin ag ef.

I was also taken with your point on what happens in the hospital environment. I am aware that local health boards in west Wales are undertaking work on the current waiting lists, on how they should refer patients, and on what they should do, so we will have to see where that takes us. In addition, the work that I have done at the centre might help to complement that work. Thank you for raising those points with me.

Yr oeddwn hefyd yn cytuno â’ch pwynt ynghylch beth sy’n digwydd mewn ysbytai. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol bod byrddau iechyd lleol yn y gorllewin yn gwneud gwaith ar y rhestrau aros presennol, ynghylch sut y dylent atgyfeirio cleifion, a beth y dylent ei wneud, felly bydd yn rhaid inni weld i ble y bydd hynny’n ein harwain. Yn ogystal, gallai’r gwaith yr wyf wedi ei wneud yn y canol helpu i ategu’r gwaith hwnnw. Diolch ichi am godi’r pwyntiau hynny gyda mi.

Like you, I love Designed to Smile, because it works. The good habits that that age group will learn at school will continue throughout their life, which is really positive, and might also be passed on to other siblings at home. Therefore, there is a lot of merit in that initiative. I believe that it is a success, but we will look at its roll-out in the context of the budget, which I am discussing with my officials.

Yr wyf fi, fel chithau, wrth fy modd gyda Cynllun Gwên, oherwydd y mae’n gweithio. Bydd yr arferion da y bydd y grŵp oedran hwnnw’n eu dysgu yn yr ysgol yn parhau drwy gydol eu bywydau, sy’n gadarnhaol iawn, ac efallai y caiff hynny ei drosglwyddo i frodyr neu chwiorydd eraill gartref. Felly, mae llawer o werth i’r fenter honno. Credaf ei bod yn llwyddiant, ond edrychwn ar ei chyflwyno yng nghyd-destun y gyllideb, yr wyf yn ei thrafod gyda’m swyddogion.

I am aware of the difficulty that people in care homes can have in accessing dental services. If someone from the outside—the dentist—is going into a care home, I think that that provides another check and balance on the care home sector, as it means that another person is checking on people’s health. I will be asking my officials to look carefully at that research by Cardiff University. Perhaps we can set up links between a dental practice and a certain care home, to provide regular treatment.

Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r anhawster y gall pobl mewn cartrefi gofal ei wynebu o ran cael mynediad at wasanaethau deintyddol. Os oes rhywun o’r tu allan—y deintydd—yn mynd i gartref gofal, yna credaf fod hynny’n rhoi rhwystr a gwrthbwysau arall ar y sector cartrefi gofal, gan ei fod yn golygu bod rhywun arall yn edrych sut y mae iechyd pobl. Byddaf yn gofyn i’m swyddogion edrych yn ofalus ar yr ymchwil honno gan Brifysgol Caerdydd. Efallai y gallwn greu cysylltiadau rhwng practis deintyddol a chartref gofal penodol, er mwyn darparu triniaeth reolaidd.

You are right that people are keeping their teeth for much longer these days. Many of the post-war generation have false teeth, but, because of better oral health care nowadays, as people get older, many are keeping their own teeth, so we need to consider provision for them.

Yr ydych yn iawn wrth ddweud bod pobl yn cadw eu dannedd yn llawer hwy y dyddiau hyn. Mae gan lawer o’r genhedlaeth wedi’r rhyfel ddannedd gosod, ond, oherwydd gwell gofal am iechyd y geg y dyddiau hyn, wrth i bobl fynd yn hŷn, mae llawer yn cadw eu dannedd eu hunain, felly mae angen inni ystyried y ddarpariaeth ar eu cyfer.

The issues around the units of dental activity are extremely difficult, and even my expert group is finding it difficult to wade through the many issues raised by dentists. People in the profession raise various points about how they operate.

Mae’r materion yn ymwneud ag unedau gweithgaredd deintyddol yn anodd iawn, ac mae hyd yn oed fy ngrŵp arbenigol yn ei chael yn anodd dod i ben â’r llu o faterion a godir gan ddeintyddion. Mae pobl yn y proffesiwn yn codi amrywiol bwyntiau ynghylch sut y maent yn gweithredu.

I am not certain that the old dentistry contract was that wonderful. However, we are where we are on this contract, and we have to try to improve it. Therefore, I shall return to the Chamber with an update on all these issues. If Members want to write to me, please feel free to do so and I can pass any issues on to the expert group.

Nid wyf yn siŵr a oedd yr hen gontract deintyddol mor wych â hynny. Fodd bynnag, mae’r sefyllfa gyda’r contract hwn fel y mae, a rhaid inni geisio ei gwella. Felly, dychwelaf i’r Siambr gyda’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf ynghylch yr holl faterion hyn. Os bydd yr Aelodau am ysgrifennu ataf, mae croeso ichi wneud hynny a gallaf drosglwyddo unrhyw faterion i’r grŵp arbenigol.

Joyce Watson: Thank you for your report, Minister. I wish to raise the same point that Jenny Randerson raised, namely the difficulties experienced by patients seeking NHS orthodontic advice and treatment in west Wales. Serious concerns have been raised in recent months about orthodontic services in Carmarthenshire. According to orthodontic consultant, Dr David Howells, who has a practice in Llanelli and in Carmarthen, there is no more NHS funding to see new patients until April 2009, and those joining the waiting list for treatment and advice will not be seen for at least two years. I am sure that you are aware that that would mean that people who are eligible for treatment under the NHS now, 16-year-olds, could be ineligible in two years’ time, when they will be 18 years old.

Joyce Watson: Diolch ichi am eich adroddiad, Weinidog. Hoffwn godi’r un pwynt ag a gododd Jenny Randerson, sef yr anawsterau a gaiff cleifion sydd am gael cyngor a thriniaeth orthodonteg gan y GIG yn y gorllewin. Codwyd pryderon dybryd yn ystod y misoedd diwethaf am wasanaethau orthodonteg yn sir Gaerfyrddin. Yn ôl yr ymgynghorydd orthodonteg, Dr David Howells, y mae ganddo bractis yn Llanelli ac yng Nghaerfyrddin, nid oes rhagor o arian gan y GIG i weld cleifion newydd tan fis Ebrill 2009, ac ni chaiff y rhai sy’n ymuno â rhestr aros i gael triniaeth a chyngor eu gweld am o leiaf ddwy flynedd. Yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod yn ymwybodol y byddai hynny’n golygu na fyddai pobl sy’n gymwys i gael triniaeth o dan y GIG yn awr, pobl ifanc 16 oed, yn gymwys ymhen dwy flynedd, pan fyddant yn 18 oed.

You have partly answered my question on this serious issue, but will you take it back to your expert group so that we can get some answers? The claim made by Carmarthenshire Local Health Board is that it has no money to commission orthodontic services, and I would be grateful if you could answer that claim.

Edwina Hart: You have raised this issue with me before, Joyce; indeed, you have been raising it since you were elected to the Assembly.

Around £8.8 million is allocated to Carmarthenshire Local Health Board for dentistry, and I understand that at the half-year stage it had not spent all of its money, although I will have to check that. I think that it allocates around a fifth of its budget allocation to orthodontic services. Therefore, there is an issue there.

Dyrennir tua £8.8 miliwn i Fwrdd Iechyd Lleol Sir Gaerfyrddin ar gyfer deintyddiaeth, a deallaf mai’r sefyllfa wedi i hanner y flwyddyn fynd heibio oedd nad oedd wedi gwario’r holl arian, ond bydd yn rhaid imi gadarnhau hynny. Credaf ei fod yn dyrannu tuag un rhan o bump o’i gyllideb i wasanaethau orthodonteg. Felly, mae problem yno.

Thank you for drawing attention to the comments of Dr David Howells. I noticed that I had a letter from him today, in which he raises some of these issues. I will reply to him on his concerns about his requirements for his patients.

We spend quite a lot of money on orthodontic treatment in the UK relative to our European partners. There are more referrals in the UK, and people are interested in orthodontic services. We do not support purely cosmetic orthodontic treatment in the NHS, only treatment that is required to improve the state of your oral health.

Gwariwn gryn dipyn o arian ar driniaeth orthodonteg yn y DU o’n cymharu â’n partneriaid Ewropeaidd. Mae mwy o atgyfeiriadau yn y DU, ac mae gan bobl ddiddordeb mewn gwasanaethau orthodonteg. Nid ydym yn cefnogi triniaeth orthodonteg gwbl gosmetig yn y GIG, dim ond triniaeth y mae ei hangen i wella iechyd y geg.

Your contribution raises many issues, Joyce, and, as a result of our discussions and your comments today, I am happy to confirm that I will formally refer the expert group to look at how orthodontic services should be dealt with across Wales.

Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig (Elin Jones): Diben fy natganiad heddiw yw rhoi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i’r Aelodau am hynt y gwaith a wneir mewn perthynas â’r ymrwymiad a geir yn 'Cymru’n Un’ i gydweithio ag awdurdodau lleol er mwyn nodi a mynd i’r afael ag anghenion ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell.

The Minister for Rural Affairs (Elin Jones): The purpose of my statement today is to update Members on progress in the delivery of the 'One Wales’ commitment to work with local authorities to identify and to address the particular needs of deep rural areas.

Yn fy marn i, mae gweithredu ar yr ymrwymiad hwn yn gyfle i fynd i’r afael â’r pryderon bod cymunedau gwledig diarffordd o dan anfantais am eu bod yn bellach o lawer oddi wrth wasanaethau allweddol na mannau eraill yng Nghymru. O’r herwydd, yr wyf wedi comisiynu ymchwil er mwyn rhoi prawf ar ragdybiaethau cyffredin ac fel bod modd ystyried yr amryfal faterion sy’n gysylltiedig â mynediad at wasanaethau ac â darparu gwasanaethau mewn cymunedau gwledig anghysbell. Yr wyf am i ganlyniadau’r ymchwil hwn fod ar gael cyn toriad yr haf yn 2009.

I view action on this commitment as an opportunity to address concerns that isolated rural communities are disadvantaged by their distance from the services that are taken for granted elsewhere in Wales. As a result, I have commissioned research to test commonly held assumptions and explore the range of issues surrounding access to services and the provision of services to deep rural communities. I want the results of this research to be available before the summer 2009 recess.

Yr oedd yn glir o’r cychwyn cyntaf nad oedd diffiniad safonol ar gael o 'ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell’, felly, er mwyn inni bennu mewn modd clir a chyson yr hyn a olygir wrth ardaloedd o’r fath, rhoddais gyfarwyddyd i fy swyddogion ddatblygu set syml o feini prawf a fyddai’n seiliedig ar y gwasanaethau a ddarperir ac ar fynediad at y gwasanaethau hynny.

From the outset, it was clear that there was no standard definition of 'deep rural areas’ so I instructed my officials to develop a simple set of criteria based on service provision and access, to identify such areas in a clear and consistent way.

Nid oedd y dasg hon mor hawdd ag yr ymddangosai ar yr olwg gyntaf, gan fod yn rhaid edrych yn fanwl ar nodweddion penodol ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell, a’u cymharu â’r hyn a ddeellir wrth ardaloedd gwledig yn fwy cyffredinol.

This task was not as easy as it seemed at first, as it involved unpicking the particular characteristics of deep rural and contrasting them against our understanding of more general rural areas.

Daethpwyd i’r casgliad mai’r diffiniad o ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell yw mannau y mae’n cymryd mwy na hanner awr ar gyfartaledd i yrru yno o dref ac ynddi 10,000 o bobl. Fel arfer, mewn trefi sydd â thua 10,000 o bobl, mae darpariaeth dda o ran gwasanaethau iechyd, gwasanaethau ariannol, gwasanaethau hamdden a gwasanaethau eraill, ond nid oes gan gymunedau llai, mwy anghysbell, amrediad mor gynhwysfawr o wasanaethau, neu mae angen i bobl deithio er mwyn manteisio ar y gwasanaethau hynny.

At ddibenion yr astudiaeth hon, mae diffinio ardal wledig anghysbell yn ardal y mae’n cymryd hanner awr i yrru iddi o dref sydd â 10,000 o bobl yn crisialu’r ymdeimlad ymhlith trigolion yr ardaloedd hynny eu bod ar yr ymylon ac wedi’u hynysu o’r prif ganolfannau lle darperir gwasanaethau. Yr wyf wedi ymgynghori â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, sy’n cytuno â’r diffiniad hwn ac sy’n cefnogi fy mwriad i gynnal ymchwil i anghenion ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell o’r fath.

For the purposes of this study, defining a deep rural area as an area that is a thirty-minute drive time from a settlement of 10,000 captures the sense of peripherality and isolation from main service centres that is experienced by residents of deep rural areas. I have consulted the Welsh Local Government Association. It agrees with this definition and supports my proposals to undertake research on the needs of deep rural areas.

Yn ôl y diffiniad hwn, mae ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell yn rhannau gwledig gogledd-ddwyrain Ynys Môn, yng Ngwynedd, yng Nghonwy, yn sir Ddinbych, ym Mhowys, yng ngorllewin bro Gŵyr yn Abertawe, yng Ngheredigion, yn sir Gaerfyrddin ac yng ngogledd sir Benfro. Er mwyn llywio’r gwaith, mae fy swyddogion wedi gweithio mewn partneriaeth â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru i bennu cymunedau gwledig mwy anghysbell lle gellid mynd ati i wneud gwaith ymchwil manwl.

Using this definition, deep rural areas are evident in the rural parts of north east Anglesey, Gwynedd, Conwy, Denbighshire, Powys, west Gower in Swansea, Ceredigion, Carmarthenshire and north Pembrokeshire. In order to inform the work, my officials have worked in partnership with the WLGA to identify remoter rural communities where detailed research work could be undertaken.

Arsyllfa Wledig Cymru, sy’n cael ei rhedeg ar y cyd gan Brifysgol Caerdydd a Phrifysgol Aberystwyth, fydd yn cynnal yr ymchwil yn yr ardaloedd a fydd yn cael eu hastudio. Mae’r arsyllfa wedi ennill ei phlwyf ym maes darparu tystiolaeth am faterion gwledig, a hynny er mwyn helpu i lywio gwaith datblygu polisi.

The Wales Rural Observatory, which is a collaboration between Cardiff University and Aberystwyth University, will undertake the research in the study areas. It is has a long track record of providing evidence on rural issues, which help inform policy development.

Yr ydym wedi nodi pedair cymuned addas ar gyfer yr astudiaeth, sef un yng ngogledd Powys yn ardal Llanfihangel-yng-Ngwynfa ger Llanfyllin, a’r llall yn ne Powys yn ardal Llangamarch. Y ddwy gymuned arall a fydd yn cael eu hastudio fydd ardal Tegryn yng ngogledd sir Benfro ac Aberdaron ym mhenrhyn Llŷn.

We have identified four suitable communities where studies will be conducted. One is in north Powys around Llanfihangel-yng Ngwynfa near Llanfyllin and one in south Powys in the Llangammarch Wells area. The other two study communities are around Tegryn in north Pembrokeshire and Aberdaron on the Lleyn peninsula.

4.00 p.m.

Dewiswyd yr ardaloedd hyn ar gyfer yr astudiaeth am eu bod yn cydymffurfio â’r diffiniad, sef ei bod yn cymryd tua hanner awr i yrru yno o dref ac ynddi 10,000 o bobl. Rheswm arall dros eu dewis oedd am fod ynddynt rhwng 180 a 500 o aelwydydd, sef y niferoedd sydd eu hangen er mwyn cynnal arolygon llwyddiannus. Ystyriaeth arall wrth ddewis yr ardaloedd hyn oedd y ffaith nad oedd y cymunedau hynny yn gallu manteisio ar ystod o wasanaethau pwysig, a gafodd eu nodi drwy waith dadansoddi cyfrifiadurol gan ddefnyddio system wybodaeth ddaearyddol.

These study areas were picked because they comply with the definition of being around 30 minutes’ drive from a town of 10,000 people. Another reason for choosing them was that they have between 180 and 500 households, which is the necessary number of households for successful survey work. A further consideration in the selection of the areas was their lack of access to a range of important services, which was identified by computer analysis using a geographical information system.

Mae Arsyllfa Wledig Cymru wrthi’n penderfynu ar ffurf derfynol yr astudiaeth gan ymgynghori â’r awdurdodau lleol dan sylw. Bydd gofyn i drigolion ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell a darparwyr gwasanaethau yn y sector cyhoeddus, y sector preifat a’r trydydd sector ymateb i holiadur ar nifer o themâu sy’n ymwneud â gwasanaethau. Bwriedir gofyn hefyd i gyfran o’r rheini a fydd yn ymateb i’r holiadur gymryd rhan mewn cyfweliadau ategol.

The Wales Rural Observatory is finalising the design of the study in consultation with the local authorities involved. The work will involve deep rural residents and service providers in the public, private and third sectors responding to a questionnaire on a number of service-related themes. A proportion of the respondents will also be asked to participate in follow-up interviews.

Byddaf hefyd, o fewn y portffolio sydd gennyf fel Gweinidog, yn chwilio am gyfleoedd i ddefnyddio’r wybodaeth a ddaw i law drwy’r gwaith hwn i gefnogi cymunedau gwledig cynaliadwy ac i ategu mesurau sy’n bodoli eisoes dan echelau 3 a 4 y cynllun datblygu gwledig.   

Within my ministerial portfolio, I will also seek opportunities to apply the knowledge gained from this work to support sustainable rural communities and to complement existing measures under axes 3 and 4 of the rural development plan.  

Caiff canlyniadau’r ymchwil eu rhannu â holl awdurdodau lleol Cymru. Yr wyf yn argyhoeddedig y bydd ein hymrwymiad i’r prosiect hwn yn annog pob sector i ystyried a datblygu modelau arloesol ar gyfer darparu gwasanaethau, ac y bydd y prosiect yn darparu tystiolaeth a fydd yn dylanwadu ar y gwaith o ddatblygu polisïau a fydd yn anelu at sicrhau bod ein holl gymunedau gwledig yn gynaliadwy yn y tymor hir.

The results of the research will be shared with all local authorities in Wales. I am convinced that our commitment to this project will encourage every sector to consider and develop innovative service delivery models, and that the project will provide evidence that will influence policy development aiming to ensure long-term sustainability in all of our rural communities.

Yr wyf wedi cyfeirio at yr heriau, a chredaf ei bod hefyd yn briodol i mi atgoffa Aelodau ein bod eisoes wedi rhoi bron £50 miliwn i helpu cymunedau gwledig dan echelau 3 a 4 y cynllun datblygu gwledig. Yr ydym yn cydweithio’n agos â phartneriaid er mwyn symleiddio pethau ar gyfer y cylch nesaf o lunio cynlluniau busnes. Y pwynt pwysig yw y bydd y gwaith hwn ar ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell yn gyfle i ni roi ffocws mwy penodol i echelau 3 a 4 y tro nesaf a sicrhau manteision gwirioneddol i’r ardaloedd lle mae’r anghenion mwyaf.

I have referred to the challenges, and I think that it is also appropriate to remind Members that we have already awarded nearly £50 million under axes 3 and 4 of the rural development plan.  We are working closely with partners to simplify things for the next business plan round.  The important point is that this deep rural work will give us the opportunity to better focus axes 3 and 4 next time and ensure tangible benefits to the areas in most need.

Brynle Williams: Thank you very much, Minister, for giving us this statement and update; it is warmly welcomed on this side of the Chamber. Among quite a few things in here, I especially welcome the work of the rural observatory and the universities. As a committee, we identified the need to define exactly the additional costs incurred for deep rural communities as opposed to urban communities. I believe that your instructions here will answer these questions.

Brynle Williams: Diolch yn fawr, Weinidog, am roi inni’r datganiad hwn a’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf; mae croeso gwresog iddo ar yr ochr hon i’r Siambr. Ymhlith amryw byd o bethau yma, yr wyf yn croesawu’n arbennig waith yr arsyllfa wledig a’r prifysgolion. Fel pwyllgor, gwelsom fod angen diffinio’n union y costau ychwanegol sy’n dod i ran cymunedau gwledig anghysbell o’u gwrthgyferbynnu â chymunedau trefol. Credaf y bydd eich cyfarwyddiadau yma’n ateb y cwestiynau hyn.

I look forward to seeing a very speedy conclusion to this, as we have discussed many times. The serious problems in deep rural communities have to be addressed even more now, in the present credit situation.

Edrychaf ymlaen at weld hyn yn cael ei gwblhau’n fuan iawn, fel y trafodwyd gennym lawer gwaith. Mae mynd i’r afael â’r problemau difrifol yn ein cymunedau gwledig anghysbell yn fwy fyth o reidrwydd yn awr, yn y sefyllfa gredyd bresennol.

William Graham: I call Alun Davies.

William Graham: Galwaf ar Alun Davies.

Elin Jones and Alun Davies rose—

Elin Jones ac Alun Davies a gododd—

William Graham: Sorry, Minister, I see that you wanted to reply. I apologise. I call the Minister to reply.

William Graham: Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, Weinidog, gwelaf fod arnoch eisiau ateb. Ymddiheuraf. Galwaf ar y Gweinidog i ateb.

Elin Jones: That is okay; thank you. There were not many specific questions in the contribution, but I will reiterate a few things.

Elin Jones: Popeth yn iawn; diolch. Nid oedd llawer o gwestiynau penodol yn y cyfraniad, ond ailadroddaf ychydig o bethau.

Thank you for your support, Brynle, and for your interest in this piece of innovative work for the Assembly Government and, ultimately, the Assembly. As you indicated, the rural observatory is the appropriate body to undertake this research in the deep rural areas. It will do that under the auspices of the rural development plan and the technical assistance funding provided as part of that.

Diolch am eich cefnogaeth, Brynle, ac am eich diddordeb yn y gwaith arloesol hwn ar ran Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ac, yn y pen draw, y Cynulliad. Fel y dywedasoch, yr arsyllfa wledig yw’r corff priodol i wneud yr ymchwil hon yn yr ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell. Gwna hynny dan nawdd y cynllun datblygu gwledig a’r arian ar gyfer cymorth technegol a ddarperir fel rhan o hynny.

William Graham: I now call Alun Davies.

William Graham: Galwaf yn awr ar Alun Davies.

Alun Davies: Thank you very much; I think that my hearing is somewhat amiss today.

Alun Davies: Diolch yn fawr; credaf fod mymryn o nam ar fy nghlyw heddiw.

I very much welcome the statement that you have made this afternoon, Minister. I also welcome the actions that you are proposing to take. I think that the whole Chamber will be united in supporting what you are proposing to do and your selection of the rural observatory to complete this work. I do not think that it will come as a surprise to anybody that I seem to represent all four of the areas that you have selected as deep rural areas. They are good examples of places where people find access to services difficult. In looking at this work—and, as I say, I welcome it—I hope that you will take a holistic view of life in these deep rural areas, including access to services, housing and transport. The Rural Development Sub-committee, in its investigation of rural poverty and deprivation, found that access to public transport was a key determinant of people’s ability to access public services, jobs and other facilities as part of their daily lives. Access to services such as broadband is also important. The areas that you have identified will almost entirely correspond to the not-spots in Wales.

Yr wyf yn croesawu’n fawr y datganiad a wnaethoch y prynhawn yma, Weinidog. Yr wyf yn croesawu hefyd y camau y bwriadwch eu cymryd. Credaf y bydd y Siambr gyfan yn unedig wrth gefnogi’r hyn yr ydych yn bwriadu ei wneud a’ch bod wedi dewis yr arsyllfa wledig i gyflawni’r gwaith hwn. Ni chredaf y bydd yn syndod i neb fy mod, mae’n debyg, yn cynrychioli pob un o’r pedair ardal a ddewiswyd gennych yn ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell. Maent yn enghreifftiau da o leoedd lle y mae pobl yn ei chael yn anodd cael gwasanaethau. Wrth edrych ar y gwaith hwn—ac, fel y dywedais, yr wyf yn ei groesawu—gobeithio y cymerwch olwg gyfannol ar fywyd yn yr ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell hyn, gan gynnwys mynediad at wasanaethau, tai a thrafnidiaeth. Canfu’r Is-bwyllgor Datblygu Gwledig, yn ei ymchwiliad i dlodi ac amddifadedd gwledig, fod mynediad at drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn ffactor allweddol yng ngallu pobl i gael mynediad at wasanaethau cyhoeddus, swyddi a chyfleusterau eraill fel rhan o’u bywydau beunyddiol. Mae mynediad at wasanaethau fel band eang yn bwysig hefyd. Bydd yr ardaloedd a enwyd gennych yn cyfateb bron yn gyfan gwbl i’r mannau digyswllt yng Nghymru.

I hope that you will look at the challenges facing these communities in a positive way. There are examples of communities up and down Wales that have identified these difficulties, not in a negative way but in a positive way, finding innovative ways of overcoming these difficulties and creating vibrant communities, albeit in places that are generally defined as deep rural areas. Sometimes, we discuss these issues in far too negative a way. I hope that you will look at different ways in which life in these communities can be enhanced and look at ways to ensure that the Government and local authorities work together to underpin and deliver the best quality of services to these communities across Wales.

Gobeithio yr edrychwch ar yr heriau sy’n wynebu’r cymunedau hyn mewn ffordd gadarnhaol. Ceir enghreifftiau o gymunedau ar hyd a lled Cymru sydd wedi gweld yr  anawsterau hyn, nid mewn ffordd negyddol ond mewn ffordd gadarnhaol, gan ganfod ffyrdd arloesol o oresgyn yr anawsterau hyn a chreu cymunedau llawn bywyd, er mai mewn mannau a ddiffinnir yn gyffredinol fel ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell y gwnânt hynny. Weithiau, trafodwn y materion hyn mewn modd sy’n rhy negyddol o lawer. Gobeithio yr edrychwch ar wahanol ffyrdd y gellir cyfoethogi bywyd yn y cymunedau hyn ac edrych ar ffyrdd o sicrhau bod y Llywodraeth ac awdurdodau lleol yn cydweithio i gefnogi a darparu gwasanaethau o’r ansawdd gorau i’r cymunedau hyn ledled Cymru.

Elin Jones: Thank you for those comments. I should explain at the start that the four areas that I have noted this afternoon are research areas—just in case anyone is under the misapprehension that large amounts of public funding are going to be directed to these four areas. They are research areas for the purposes of defining the needs of deep rural areas, and the rural observatory will undertake that work on behalf of the Government. The work will be about accessing the particular challenges faced by the more remote rural areas in accessing public services and other services primarily funded from the public sector. Those services are wide-ranging. The approach will be holistic and will look at some of the issues that you have raised, Alun. That will include public transport, for example, because distance and remoteness from services can be a key isolating factor for many of the people living in these areas. More recently, an inability to access services via the internet has become an issue that can lead to isolation.

Elin Jones: Diolch am y sylwadau hynny. Dylwn esbonio ar y dechrau mai ardaloedd ymchwil yw’r pedair ardal a enwais y prynhawn yma—rhag ofn i neb gael y camargraff fod symiau mawr o arian cyhoeddus yn mynd i gael eu cyfeirio i’r pedair ardal hyn. Ardaloedd ymchwil ydynt er mwyn diffinio anghenion ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell, a bydd yr arsyllfa wledig yn ymgymryd â’r gwaith hwnnw ar ran y Llywodraeth. Pwrpas y gwaith fydd canfod yr heriau arbennig a wynebir gan yr ardaloedd gwledig mwy diarffordd wrth geisio cael gwasanaethau cyhoeddus a gwasanaethau eraill a ariennir yn bennaf gan y sector cyhoeddus. Mae’r gwasanaethau hynny’n eang. Eir ati mewn modd cyfannol gan edrych ar rai o’r materion a godwyd gennych, Alun. Bydd hynny’n cynnwys trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, er enghraifft, oherwydd gall pellter oddi wrth wasanaethau fod yn ffactor allweddol sy’n ynysu llawer o drigolion yr ardaloedd hyn. Yn fwy diweddar, daeth anallu i gael gwasanaethau drwy’r rhyngrwyd yn fater a all arwain at ynysu.

I am confident that this exercise will not end up as a means of simply listing the problems of deep rural areas and that it will identify more positive means of delivering services to meet the particular needs of people in our more remote rural areas.

Yr wyf yn hyderus nad unig ganlyniad yr ymarferiad hwn fydd rhestru problemau ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell, ac y canfyddir dulliau mwy cadarnhaol o ddarparu gwasanaethau i ateb anghenion penodol pobl yn ein hardaloedd gwledig mwy diarffordd.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Thank you for your statement. Although I have lived in a rural area all my life, in the Vale of Glamorgan, I would not begin to suggest that that is a deep rural area.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Diolch am eich datganiad. Er fy mod wedi byw mewn ardal wledig drwy gydol fy oes, ym Mro Morgannwg, ni fynnwn awgrymu ei bod yn ardal wledig anghysbell.

One of the steps that your Government has taken is to conduct a consultation exercise on technical advice note 6 regarding the planning dispensation that rural areas benefit from. I suggest that deep rural areas would benefit greatly from a relaxation of the planning guidelines that emerge from this institution, or a better understanding of them by local authorities.

Un o’r camau y mae eich Llywodraeth wedi’i gymryd yw cynnal ymgynghoriad ynghylch nodyn cyngor technegol 6 ynglŷn â’r oddefeb gynllunio a ganiateir i ardaloedd gwledig. Awgrymaf y byddai ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell yn elwa’n fawr o gael llacio’r canllawiau cynllunio sy’n deillio o’r sefydliad hwn, neu well dealltwriaeth ohonynt gan awdurdodau lleol.

Could you update us on the next move for the Government, now that the consultation process on TAN 6 has finished? When might you, or your colleague Jane Davidson, be able to bring those revised proposals forward to help rural construction, as well as those people who desire to have houses in the countryside and whose place of residence is ultimately determined by their place of employment?

A allech ddweud wrthym beth fydd symudiad nesaf y Llywodraeth, a’r broses ymgynghori ar nodyn cyngor technegol 6 bellach wedi dod i ben? Pryd y gallech chi, neu eich cyd-Weinidog Jane Davidson, gyflwyno’r cynigion diwygiedig hynny i helpu adeiladu yng nghefn gwlad, yn ogystal â’r bobl sy’n dymuno cael tai yng nghefn gwlad ac y mae’r fan lle y maent yn gweithio yn pennu lle y maent yn byw yn y pen draw?

4.10 p.m.

Elin Jones: I do not have to hand any information on the current thinking of the Minister with responsibility for planning with regard to providing information following the consultation on TAN 6, but I share your view that the particular requirements of deep rural areas can differ from the requirements of more general rural areas, and that the general way in which policy is interpreted across all rural areas can be detrimental to some areas in particular. For too long, we have put all rural areas into the same box, and it is now appropriate to consider whether we need to look at differentiating between the challenges, problems and solutions that face the different rural areas in Wales.

Elin Jones: Nid oes gennyf wybodaeth wrth law ynghylch barn y Gweinidog â chyfrifoldeb dros gynllunio ar hyn o bryd yng nghyswllt darparu gwybodaeth yn sgîl yr ymgynghori ar nodyn cyngor technegol 6, ond yr wyf yn cyd-fynd â chi y gall gofynion arbennig ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell fod yn wahanol i ofynion ardaloedd gwledig yn fwy cyffredinol, ac y gall y ffordd gyffredinol y dehonglir polisi ar draws pob ardal wledig fod yn niweidiol i rai ardaloedd yn arbennig. Ers gormod o amser, yr ydym wedi rhoi pob ardal wledig yn yr un blwch, a bellach mae’n briodol ystyried a oes angen inni ystyried gwahaniaethu rhwng yr heriau, y problemau a’r atebion sy’n wynebu’r gwahanol ardaloedd gwledig yng Nghymru.

Joyce Watson: I very much welcome your statement and the new studies that you have announced. As someone who has lived, worked and run businesses in rural areas and who now represents most of the areas that you mention, I welcome these studies.

Joyce Watson: Yr wyf yn croesawu’n fawr eich datganiad a’r astudiaethau newydd yr ydych wedi’u cyhoeddi. Fel un sydd wedi byw, gweithio a rhedeg busnesau mewn ardaloedd gwledig ac sydd yn awr yn cynrychioli’r rhan fwyaf o’r ardaloedd yr  ydych yn sôn amdanynt, yr wyf yn croesawu’r astudiaethau hyn.

By definition, the biggest challenge facing communities in deep rural areas of Wales are issues of access, for example, access to services or goods or to employment opportunities. I know that people sometimes characterise rural and urban communities as being engaged in a protracted battle for resources—and I am thinking of certain Members sitting on the opposition benches—but access is not about competing for zero-sum services; it is a question of equity, and I welcome your study on the equity of services. I also welcome the fact that it is a study that will be based on evidence and a commitment by the Assembly Government to show how serious it is about tackling rural poverty.

Drwy ddiffiniad, yr her fwyaf sy’n wynebu cymunedau yn ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell Cymru yw problemau’n ymwneud â mynediad, er enghraifft, mynediad at wasanaethau neu nwyddau neu gyfleoedd cyflogaeth. Gwn y bydd pobl weithiau’n darlunio cymunedau gwledig a threfol fel rhai sydd byth a hefyd yn cystadlu am adnoddau—ac yr wyf yn meddwl am rai Aelodau sy’n eistedd ar feinciau’r gwrthbleidiau—ond nid rhywbeth sy’n ymwneud â chystadlu am wasanaethau ar draul rhywun arall yw mynediad; mae a wnelo â thegwch, ac yr wyf yn croesawu eich astudiaeth ar degwch gwasanaethau. Yr wyf yn croesawu hefyd y ffaith mai astudiaeth ydyw a gaiff ei seilio ar dystiolaeth ac ymrwymiad gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad i ddangos i ba raddau y mae o ddifrif ynglŷn â mynd i’r afael â thlodi gwledig.

Elin Jones: I agree that dividing communities, whether they are urban or rural, or pitching urban communities against rural, is not of benefit to either urban or rural communities or to any politician in the Chamber. That issue was highlighted in a recent short debate by your colleague, Alun Davies, to which I listened with interest. I hope that, in commencing this work, I do not create another division between general rural areas and deep rural areas. That is certainly not my intention. I only wish to look at what the appropriate means of service delivery is in different circumstances in rural areas. I have just noticed that the four Mid and West Wales Assembly regional Members represent all four areas that I have announced this afternoon.

Elin Jones: Cytunaf nad yw rhannu cymunedau, boent drefol neu wledig, neu osod cymunedau trefol yn erbyn rhai gwledig, o fudd i gymunedau trefol na gwledig nac i ddim un gwleidydd yn y Siambr. Amlygwyd hynny mewn dadl fer yn ddiweddar gan eich cyd-Aelod, Alun Davies, dadl y gwrandewais arni gyda diddordeb. Gobeithio, wrth ddechrau’r gwaith hwn, nad wyf yn creu rhaniad arall rhwng ardaloedd gwledig yn gyffredinol ac ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell. Nid hynny yw fy mwriad, yn sicr. Y cwbl yr wyf am ei wneud yw edrych ar beth yw’r ffordd briodol o ddarparu gwasanaethau mewn gwahanol amgylchiadau mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Yr wyf newydd sylwi bod y pedwar Aelod Cynulliad rhanbarthol dros Ganolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru yn cynrychioli pob un o’r pedair ardal a enwais y prynhawn yma.

Nerys Evans: Croesawaf y datganiad,  ac yr wyf yn falch o weld Gweinidog Plaid Cymru yn gweithredu ar addewid 'Cymru’n Un’ ac yn ymgymryd â phroblemau cefn gwlad. Yn anffodus, mae’r pwnc hwn o ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell wedi’i anwybyddu ers blynyddoedd oherwydd, mae’n siŵr, nad yw poblogaeth yr ardaloedd hyn yn fawr ac, felly, mae llai o gwyno ganddynt. Efallai, o ganlyniad, y bu’r pwnc yn llai o flaenoriaeth i ddwy Lywodraeth flaenorol y Cynulliad. Mae’n cymryd Gweinidog o gymuned cefn gwlad i ymgymryd â’r materion pwysig hyn.

Croesawaf yn fawr ymrwymiad y Gweinidog i gomisiynu gwaith ymchwil i’r problemau sy’n wynebu ein hardaloedd gwledig anghysbell a pha wasanaethau sydd ar gael iddynt. Yr ydym, yn anffodus, yn gweithio o fewn cyfyngiadau’r setliad datganoledig hwn. A fydd y gwaith ymchwil yn edrych ar ystod eang o wasanaethau? Yn ogystal â’r gwasanaethau sydd o dan rym y Cynulliad ar hyn o bryd, megis y gwasanaeth iechyd, a fydd yn edrych ar wasanaethau nad ydynt yn dod o dan rym y Cynulliad ar hyn o bryd, fel gwasanaethau’r heddlu a’r gwasanaeth post?

Bydd cael cylch gorchwyl eang i’r gwaith hwn yn estyn effeithiolrwydd y gwaith ymchwil. Nid yw pobl yn gyffredinol, gan gynnwys pobl cefn gwlad, yn byw o fewn cyfyngiadau pwerau’r Cynulliad; maent ond yn gweld y gwasanaethau sydd eu hangen arnynt. Felly, fe’ch anogaf i sicrhau bod cylch gorchwyl y gwaith ymchwil mor eang â phosibl.

Rheswm arall dros gael cylch gorchwyl eang yw’r ffaith ein bod yn gwybod bod ardaloedd gwledig ac ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell yn llai o flaenoriaeth i Lywodraeth Lundain, fel y buont i ddwy Lywodraeth flaenorol y Cynulliad. Gwelsom hynny drwy barodrwydd Llywodraeth flaenorol y Cynulliad i roi cyfarwyddyd i gau swyddfeydd post ein cymunedau gwledig a hefyd drwy wrthwynebu’n llwyr reoleiddio tanwydd ac, yn fwy sylfaenol, yr holl egwyddor o gyllido gwasanaethau yng Nghymru drwy’r Cynulliad drwy gyllido popeth yn ôl y pen yn hytrach nag yn ôl yr angen a chost darparu gwasanaethau sydd, wrth gwrs, yn fwy yn ein cymunedau cefn gwlad. Felly, anogaf sefydlu cylch gwaith eang iawn i’r gwaith ymchwil.

Another reason for having a broad remit is that we know that rural areas and deep rural areas are less of a priority for the London Government, as they have been for the two previous Assembly Governments. We saw that through the previous Assembly Government’s willingness to give a directive to close our rural post offices and also through complete opposition to fuel regulation, and, more fundamentally, to the whole principle of funding services in Wales through the Assembly by funding everything per head rather than according to need and the cost of providing services, which, of course, is higher in our rural communities. Therefore, we should set a very broad remit to the research work.

Bu ichi sôn y bydd y gwaith hefyd yn edrych ar wasanaethau fydd yn cael eu darparu gan sefydliadau cyhoeddus, preifat a thrydydd sector yn yr ardaloedd hyn. A oes modd sicrhau na fydd y gwaith hwn ond yn edrych ar y gwasanaethau sydd ar gael yn awr a’u cymharu â’r hyn a oedd ar gael mewn blynyddoedd blaenorol? Yn hytrach, dylid cymharu’r gwasanaethau yn y lleoedd hyn â’r rhai sydd ar gael mewn ardaloedd trefol a mwy poblog Cymru, fel y ceir darlun mwy cyflawn o anghenion yr ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell hyn er mwyn sicrhau cydraddoldeb mewn gwasanaethau i holl drigolion Cymru, ble bynnag y maent yn byw.

Yn olaf, yr wyf yn falch o glywed y bydd gennym ganlyniadau’r gwaith cyn yr haf nesaf. A allwch gadarnhau a fydd y gwaith hwn yn arwain at bolisïau penodol, nid yn eich portffolio chi yn unig, ond ar draws portffolios y Cynulliad? Ategaf fy nghefnogaeth i’r datblygiad a fydd yn edrych ar anghenion ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell, ac edrychaf ymlaen at weld canlyniadau’r gwaith ymchwil.

Elin Jones: Gallaf gadarnhau y bydd y gwaith ymchwil yn edrych ar ystod eang o wasanaethau yng nghefn gwlad anghysbell. Bydd hynny’n cynnwys nid yn unig y gwasanaethau y mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn gyfrifol amdanynt, ond rhai y mae llywodraeth leol a San Steffan yn gyfrifol amdanynt hefyd, er mwyn rhoi darlun llawn inni o’r hyn sy’n her o ran darparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn yr ardaloedd hyn.

Wrth edrych ar sut y mae ymateb i ganlyniadau’r gwaith ymchwil ac ar sut y dylid darparu gwasanaethau yn y dyfodol, materion polisi inni eu trafod â llywodraeth leol byddant, oherwydd mae hwn yn gynllun ar y cyd â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, ac, os oes angen, fe’u trafodir a’u codi gyda Llywodraeth San Steffan.

In looking at how we should respond to the findings of the research work and how we should deliver services in the future, we will need to discuss policy issues with local government, because this is a joint scheme with the Welsh Local Government Association. If it is necessary, we will also discuss and raise these issues with the Westminster Government.

Wrth inni weld canlyniadau cyntaf yr ymchwil, byddwn eisiau ystyried sut mae eu defnyddio i edrych yn gyntaf ar sut y gellid cyflwyno’r rhan nesaf o echelau 3 a 4 o dan y cynllun datblygu gwledig i fod, o bosibl, yn fwy priodol ar gyfer yr ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell hyn, ond hefyd i edrych ar draws portffolios Gweinidogion ac ar draws cyrff cyhoeddus yn gyffredinol i weld sut y gallwn edrych yn fwy creadigol ar weithio gyda chymunedau gwledig o’r math hwn fel y gallant gyflawni cymaint â phosibl a byw bywyd llawn, heb fod o dan anfantais o ran mynediad i wasanaethau cyhoeddus.

As we see the first outcomes of the research, we will need to consider how to make use of those outcomes in order to look initially at how to introduce the next stage of axes 3 and 4 of the rural development plan in a way that is perhaps more appropriate for these deep rural areas. We also need to look across the ministerial portfolios and across public bodies in general to see how we can look more creatively at working with rural communities of this kind so that they can achieve as much as possible and where people can live full lives, without any disadvantages in terms of access to public services.

Mick Bates: I offer a cautious welcome to this statement, Minister, because it is obviously driven by a commitment in 'One Wales’. Any focus on rurality and ways of improving the quality of life in rural areas is to be welcomed. It is in line with recommendation 19 of the Rural Development Sub-committee’s report on rural poverty, which calls for urgent work to be done on this, particularly with the Welsh Local Government Association. Although you addressed the matter to some extent, I am concerned because, although it sounds feasible that you will report back by summer 2009, there is little likelihood of action within the following 24 months, given your financial constraints. You refer to the axes in the rural development plan, but those will already have been signed and sealed. A midterm review will allow some flexibility, but I would like you to explain how you think the link between this research and the axes in the RDP will release investment to meet any policy outcomes from the research.

Mick Bates: Yr wyf yn rhoi croeso gofalus i’r datganiad hwn, Weinidog, oherwydd y mae’n amlwg yn cael ei ysgogi gan ymrwymiad yn 'Cymru’n Un’. Mae canolbwyntio ar natur wledig a dulliau o wella ansawdd bywyd mewn ardaloedd gwledig yn rhywbeth i’w groesawu. Mae’n unol ag argymhelliad 19 adroddiad yr Is-bwyllgor Datblygu Gwledig ar dlodi gwledig, sy’n galw am wneud gwaith ar hyn ar frys, yn arbennig gyda Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru. Er eich bod wedi ymdrin â’r mater i ryw raddau, yr wyf yn bryderus oherwydd, er ei bod yn swnio’n ddichonadwy y byddwch yn adrodd yn ôl erbyn haf 2009, nid oes fawr o debygolrwydd y gweithredir o fewn y 24 mis dilynol, o ystyried y cyfyngiadau ariannol arnoch. Cyfeiriwch at yr echelau yn y cynllun datblygu gwledig, ond bydd y rheini eisoes wedi cael eu llofnodi a’u cwblhau. Bydd adolygiad canol tymor yn caniatáu rhywfaint o hyblygrwydd, ond hoffwn ichi esbonio sut yr ydych yn credu y bydd y cyswllt rhwng yr ymchwil hon a’r echelau yn y cynllun datblygu gwledig yn rhyddhau buddsoddiad i wireddu unrhyw ganlyniadau polisi o’r ymchwil.

4.20 p.m.

With regard to the definition, I noted your response to Mike German on 2 October, in which you put forward this definition of a 30-minute drive from a centre of population of 10,000 or more. I wondered about the practicalities of that, and who determined that it was a 30-minute drive and under what conditions. If you started to drive from Aberystwyth in snowy conditions, you might not get very far. How have you arrived at this definition? As you will be aware, the UK Commission for Integrated Transport in England considers communities of 3,000 to be deeply rural, in America, it is communities of 2,500, and, in Cumbria, these areas are called 'super-sparse areas’. So, there is a great deal of information about what constitutes deep rural or super-sparse areas. Your definition of a 30-minute drive from a centre of 10,000 of population is of interest, but how on earth does someone scope that to determine whether an area falls within the definition? Did you drive the distance yourself?

O ran y diffiniad, sylwais ar eich ymateb i Mike German ar 2 Hydref, pryd y cyflwynasoch y diffiniad hwn o daith 30 mewn cerbyd o ganolfan boblogaeth o 10,000 neu fwy. Bûm yn pwyso a mesur agweddau ymarferol hynny, a phwy sy’n penderfynu ei bod yn daith o 30 munud mewn cerbyd ac o dan ba amodau. Pe baech yn dechrau gyrru o Aberystwyth a hithau’n eira, efallai na fyddech yn cyrraedd yn bell iawn. Sut yr ydych wedi penderfynu mai hyn yw’r diffiniad? Fel y byddwch yn gwybod, mae Comisiwn Trafnidiaeth Integredig y DU yn Lloegr yn ystyried mai cymunedau o 3,000 sy’n rhai gwledig anghysbell, yn America, cymunedau o 2,500, ac, yn Cumbria, caiff yr ardaloedd hyn eu galw’n 'ardaloedd tra phrin eu poblogaeth’. Felly, mae llawer iawn o wybodaeth am yr hyn sy’n gyfystyr ag ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell neu dra phrin eu poblogaeth. Mae eich diffiniad chi o daith 30 munud mewn cerbyd o ganolfan boblogaeth o 10,000 yn ddiddorol, ond sut yn y byd y mae rhywun yn cwmpasu hynny i benderfynu a yw ardal yn dod o fewn y diffiniad? A yrasoch y pellter eich hun?

On the choice of communities, I welcome the choice of Llanfihangel-yng-Ngwynfa, the home of the great Welsh hymn writer Ann Griffiths, and I look forward to seeing the impact of that study and how it relates to the other smaller settlements around there—Dolanog, Abertridwr, Llanwddyn and Pont Llogel. That will be of sociological interest, because it will back up other studies that have been done on Llanfihangel. However, I am concerned that the outcome will not be an improvement in services, and as part of this I suggest that there should be rural proofing of other portfolios in relation to the delivery of health services—we have just heard about dentistry—and education services or social care services. Rural proofing those particular policy areas would be a much more cost-effective way of identifying the needs of rural areas, particularly deep rural areas. So, I look forward to your response to those particular points.

O ran y dewis o gymunedau, yr wyf yn croesawu’r ffaith bod Llanfihangel-yng-Ngwynfa, cartref yr emynydd Cymraeg enwog Ann Griffiths, wedi cael ei ddewis ac edrychaf ymlaen at weld effaith yr astudiaeth honno a pherthynas hynny ag aneddiadau eraill llai yn yr ardal honno—Dolanog, Abertridwr, Llanwddyn a Phontllogail. Bydd hynny o ddiddordeb cymdeithasegol, oherwydd bydd yn ategu astudiaethau eraill sydd wedi cael eu cynnal ar Lanfihangel. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn pryderu nad gwelliant mewn gwasanaethau fydd y canlyniad, ac fel rhan o hyn awgrymaf y dylai fod prawfesur portffolios eraill o safbwynt anghenion cefn gwlad yng nghyswllt darparu gwasanaethau iechyd—yr ydym newydd glywed am ddeintyddiaeth—a gwasanaethau addysg neu wasanaethau gofal cymdeithasol. Byddai prawfesur y meysydd polisi penodol hynny o safbwynt anghenion cefn gwlad yn ffordd lawer mwy costeffeithiol o ganfod anghenion ardaloedd gwledig, yn enwedig ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell. Felly, edrychaf ymlaen at eich ymateb i’r pwyntiau penodol hynny.

I note that in the final paragraph of your statement you mentioned the £50 million in funding available under the axes. In preparation for bringing forward investment—I do not deny your good intentions on this issue, Minister—will you make a bid to the strategic capital investment fund, or can you point us to a convergence fund application that is in line with the 'One Wales’ commitment, which states that you will investigate deep rural areas with the Welsh Local Government Association, so that you can say, 'I have applied to the strategic capital investment and also for convergence funding for money to back up what I think would be useful research’?

Sylwaf ichi, ym mharagraff olaf eich datganiad, grybwyll y £50 miliwn o gyllid sydd ar gael o dan yr echelau. Wrth baratoi i gyflwyno buddsoddiad—nid wyf yn gwadu eich bwriadau da ar y mater hwn, Weinidog—a wnewch gais i’r gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol, neu a allwch ein cyfeirio at gais o dan y gronfa gydgyfeirio sy’n unol â’r ymrwymiad yn 'Cymru’n Un’, sy’n dweud y byddwch yn ymchwilio ynghyd â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru i ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell, fel y gallwch ddweud, 'Yr wyf wedi gwneud cais i’r gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol a chais hefyd am gyllid cydgyfeirio i gael arian i gefnogi’r hyn a fyddai yn fy marn i yn ymchwil fuddiol’?

Elin Jones: You will be glad to know that it does not snow very often in Aberystwyth, so that has not skewed the allocation of the areas. We have agreed the definition of a 30-minute drive from a settlement of 10,000 of population with the WLGA. It is not set in stone; as I indicated earlier, this is not currently a means of delivering vast amounts of public funding to these areas. It is an attempt to begin to identify the greater challenges that face those living in deeper rural areas, who are remote from central areas of service provision, and to begin to identify their needs. It is clear from your response that you have already decided that the outcome of this work will not bring many clear improvements. You then called for the Government to introduce rural proofing of all of its policies, but we have done that since April of this year and several Government policies have already been through the rural proofing gateway, which I have mentioned previously in the Chamber.

Elin Jones: Byddwch yn falch o wybod nad yw’n bwrw eira yn aml iawn yn Aberystwyth, felly nid yw hynny wedi ystumio dyraniad yr ardaloedd. Yr ydym wedi cytuno â CLlLC ar y diffiniad o daith 30 munud mewn cerbyd o anheddiad sydd â phoblogaeth o 10,000. Nid yw’n golygu na fydd modd ei newid byth; fel y nodais yn gynharach, ar hyn o bryd nid yw hyn yn gyfrwng i ddarparu symiau enfawr o arian cyhoeddus i’r ardaloedd hyn. Ymgais ydyw i ddechrau canfod yr heriau mwy sy’n wynebu’r rhai sy’n byw mewn ardaloedd gwledig mwy anghysbell, sy’n bell o’r ardaloedd canolog lle y darperir gwasanaethau, a dechrau gweld beth yw eu hanghenion. Mae’n glir yn ôl eich ymateb eich bod eisoes wedi penderfynu na fydd ffrwyth y gwaith hwn yn dod â llawer o welliannau amlwg. Yna galwasoch ar y Llywodraeth i gyflwyno trefn i brawfesur ei holl bolisïau o safbwynt anghenion ardaloedd gwledig, ond yr ydym wedi gwneud hynny ers mis Ebrill eleni ac mae amryw o bolisïau’r Llywodraeth eisoes wedi bod drwy’r porth prawfesur gwledig, yr wyf wedi’i grybwyll cyn hyn yn y Siambr.

I specifically mentioned axes 3 and 4 of the rural development plan because they are a means of funding rural development projects available under the rural development plan and in my portfolio. The allocation of £50 million has been made, and it is the allocation for the next two years, but in the future consideration of the next round of funding allocation, I want to challenge my officials to see whether and how the fruits of this particular piece of research can be taken into account in axes 3 and 4. That might require an amendment to the rural development plan, or it might not. It is too early to say at this stage whether that level of amendment will be required, but I am bearing that in mind in relation to the potentially greater need for support in deeper rural areas than in more established, large settlement areas, such as those in your constituency and mine.

Cyfeiriais yn benodol at echelau 3 a 4 yn y cynllun datblygu gwledig gan eu bod yn gyfrwng i gyllido prosiectau datblygu gwledig sydd ar gael o dan y cynllun datblygu gwledig ac yn fy mhortffolio i. Mae’r dyraniad o £50 miliwn wedi cael ei wneud, a dyna’r dyraniad am y ddwy flynedd nesaf, ond wrth ystyried cylch nesaf y dyraniad cyllido yn y dyfodol, yr wyf am herio fy swyddogion i weld a oes modd i ffrwyth y darn arbennig hwn o ymchwil gael ei ystyried yn echelau 3 a 4, a sut y gellir gwneud hynny. Gallai fod gofyn diwygio’r cynllun datblygu gwledig i’r perwyl hwnnw, neu efallai na fydd gofyn gwneud hynny. Mae’n rhy gynnar i ddweud ar hyn o bryd a fydd angen y lefel honno o ddiwygio, ond yr wyf yn cadw hynny mewn cof mewn perthynas â’r angen mwy am gymorth, o bosibl, mewn ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell nag mewn ardaloedd mwy sefydledig, sydd ag aneddiadau mwy, fel y rhai yn eich etholaeth chi a’m hun innau.

The Minister for Health and Social Services (Edwina Hart): I have made two recent statements to the Chamber on the future of the NHS in Wales, the first in July, at the end of the consultation period, and the second at the beginning of this term. My aim throughout has been to ensure that Members are kept fully informed of developing decision making, and to answer any questions that may arise. Today, I want to update Members on several issues that I agreed to consider further.

Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Edwina Hart): Yr wyf wedi gwneud dau ddatganiad i’r Siambr yn ddiweddar ar ddyfodol y GIG yng Nghymru, y cyntaf ym mis Gorffennaf, ar ddiwedd y cyfnod ymgynghori, a’r ail ar ddechrau’r tymor hwn. Fy nod ar hyd yr adeg fu sicrhau bod yr Aelodau’n cael gwybodaeth lawn am y penderfyniadau sy’n datblygu, ac ateb unrhyw gwestiynau sy’n codi. Heddiw, yr wyf am roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i’r Aelodau ar nifer o faterion y cytunais i’w hystyried ymhellach.

First, I have been giving considerable thought to the legal format or personality best suited to the new NHS bodies that we are creating in Wales. After careful consideration, the legal model that I intend to adopt is that of a local health board. The local health board model is one made in Wales. It emphasises co-operation and engagement. In comparison with the 1990s trust model, it offers a much better 'fit’ with the key Assembly Government policy objective of abolishing the internal market in the health service. All Members have agreed in the Chamber that we must have a system that encourages and promotes partnership working, whereby the NHS is able and committed to working with local government and the third sector. The local health board model will allow for that to continue and ensure that we can build further on the partnership working that we see, for example, in the production of the health, social care and wellbeing strategies.

Yn gyntaf, yr wyf wedi rhoi cryn ystyriaeth i’r fformat cyfreithiol neu’r bersonoliaeth sy’n gweddu orau i’r cyrff GIG newydd yr ydym yn eu creu yng Nghymru. Ar ôl ystyriaeth ofalus, y model cyfreithiol y bwriadaf ei fabwysiadu yw model bwrdd iechyd lleol. Mae model y bwrdd iechyd lleol yn un a grëwyd yng Nghymru. Mae’n pwysleisio cydweithredu ac ymgysylltu. O’i gymharu â model ymddiriedolaeth yr 1990au, mae’n cyd-fynd yn llawer gwell ag amcan polisi allweddol Llywodraeth y Cynulliad o ddileu’r farchnad fewnol yn y gwasanaeth iechyd. Mae pob Aelod yn y Siambr wedi cytuno bod yn rhaid inni gael system sy’n annog a hyrwyddo gweithio drwy bartneriaeth, fel bod y GIG yn gallu gweithio gyda llywodraeth leol a’r trydydd sector ac yn ymrwymo i wneud hynny. Bydd model y bwrdd iechyd lleol yn caniatáu i hynny barhau ac yn sicrhau y gallwn adeiladu ymhellach ar y gwaith drwy bartneriaeth a welwn, er enghraifft, wrth i’r strategaethau iechyd, gofal cymdeithasol a lles gael eu cynhyrchu.

I am also grateful for the chance to discuss the issue of timing. I have been reflecting on the views expressed by several Members in the Chamber that it is better to get this right, even if that means taking a little longer over the implementation. That argument was made, for example, by Jonathan Morgan in September, when he also urged me to consider establishing arrangements for shadow boards, which was a suggestion originally made by Helen Mary Jones. I am grateful for this advice, and I have decided, subject to consultation, which will take place between December 2008 and February 2009, and to the making of the necessary legal Orders and regulations, to establish the new NHS local bodies in shadow form from June 2009, with a view to them becoming fully operational from October 2009.

Yr wyf hefyd yn ddiolchgar am y cyfle i drafod mater amseru. Yr wyf wedi bod yn pwyso a mesur y farn a fynegwyd gan amryw o Aelodau yn y Siambr ei bod yn well gwneud hyn yn iawn, hyd yn oed os yw hynny’n golygu cymryd ychydig mwy o amser ynglŷn â’r gweithredu. Cafodd y ddadl honno ei chyflwyno, er enghraifft, gan Jonathan Morgan ym mis Medi, pan anogodd fi hefyd i ystyried sefydlu trefniadau ar gyfer byrddau cysgodol, a oedd yn awgrym a wnaethpwyd yn wreiddiol gan Helen Mary Jones. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y cyngor hwn, ac yr wyf wedi penderfynu, yn amodol ar ymgynghori, a gynhelir rhwng mis Rhagfyr 2008 a mis Chwefror 2009, ac ar wneud y Gorchmynion a’r rheoliadau cyfreithiol angenrheidiol, sefydlu’r cyrff GIG lleol newydd ar ffurf gysgodol o fis Mehefin 2009, gyda’r bwriad y byddant yn hollol weithredol o fis Hydref 2009.

The national advisory board will be in place by April 2009, before the establishment of the new NHS local bodies later in the year. This will ensure the minimum of disruption to NHS services and NHS staff. Members on all sides of the Chamber have emphasised the importance of maintaining stability in the NHS. I will achieve that by establishing the national advisory board at this stage to oversee the implementation of the reforms.

Bydd y bwrdd cynghori cenedlaethol wedi’i sefydlu erbyn mis Ebrill 2009, cyn sefydlu’r cyrff GIG lleol newydd yn ddiweddarach yn y flwyddyn. Bydd hyn yn sicrhau y bydd cyn lleied ag sy’n bosibl o darfu ar wasanaethau’r GIG a staff y GIG. Mae Aelodau ar bob ochr i’r Siambr wedi pwysleisio pwysigrwydd cynnal sefydlogrwydd yn y GIG. Byddaf yn cyflawni hynny drwy sefydlu’r bwrdd cynghori cenedlaethol ar yr adeg hon i oruchwylio gweithredu’r diwygiadau.

There are a number of remaining issues of detail on which I will now, as I indicated earlier, consult further, issuing a further consultation paper in December 2008. I look forward to as much positive engagement in this part of the process as was apparent in the first stage of consultation in the spring. While this consultation paper is being considered, I am minded to start the public appointments process for the chairs and vice-chairs of these seven new NHS local bodies at perhaps the end of this year or the beginning of next year to ensure that we have people in position to lead these new bodies as soon as possible.

Mae nifer o faterion manwl ar ôl y byddaf yn awr, fel y nodais yn gynharach, yn ymgynghori ymhellach yn eu cylch, gan gyhoeddi papur ymgynghori pellach ym mis Rhagfyr 2008. Edrychaf ymlaen at gymaint o ymgysylltu cadarnhaol yn y rhan hon o’r broses ag a oedd yn amlwg yng ngham cyntaf yr ymgynghori yn y gwanwyn. Tra bydd y papur ymgynghori hwn yn cael ei ystyried, yr wyf o blaid dechrau’r broses penodiadau cyhoeddus i gael cadeiryddion ac is-gadeiryddion i’r saith corff GIG lleol newydd hyn, ddiwedd y flwyddyn hon efallai neu ddechrau’r flwyddyn nesaf, i sicrhau bod gennym bobl yn eu swyddi i arwain y cyrff newydd hyn cyn gynted ag sy’n bosibl.

As to the boards of the new organisations, I will consult on a model that combines the best of both local health board and trust experiences. I want boards that represent key interests and are capable of taking decisions. I also propose the establishment of a larger non-statutory stakeholder group alongside the board that provides advice to it. In addition, I am giving active consideration to the creation of professional fora at each new organisation. I want to ensure that the voice of practitioners is heard as fully as possible in the new system, and that advice of this sort is readily available to the new boards. I will want to discuss this proposition further with the relevant staff organisations and others. In doing so, I am also determined that we open up membership of the boards to a wider range of individuals than has been the case hitherto. There is a pool of talent in Wales that we need to foster, and then to deploy. There are a number of different ways in which we can reach out to make these important jobs more widely accessible, such as taster sessions for potential board members and training sessions in which interested individuals can prepare themselves better to take on new responsibilities, which is a point that David Melding made to me during an earlier discussion. I intend for this approach to become embedded in how we do business in the new NHS in Wales.

O ran byrddau’r cyrff newydd hyn, ymgynghoraf ynghylch model sy’n cyfuno’r profiadau gorau’r byrddau iechyd lleol a’r ymddiriedolaethau. Yr wyf am gael byrddau sy’n cynrychioli buddiannau allweddol ac a all wneud penderfyniadau. Yr wyf hefyd yn bwriadu sefydlu grŵp rhanddeiliaid anstatudol mwy ochr yn ochr â’r bwrdd, i ddarparu cyngor iddo. Hefyd, yr wyf wrthi’n ystyried creu fforymau proffesiynol ar gyfer pob un o’r cyrff newydd. Yr wyf am sicrhau bod llais ymarferwyr yn cael ei glywed mor llawn ag sy’n bosibl yn y system newydd, a bod cyngor o’r math hwn ar gael yn hwylus i’r byrddau newydd. Yr wyf am drafod y cynnig hwn ymhellach gyda’r mudiadau staff perthnasol ac eraill. Wrth wneud hynny, yr wyf hefyd yn benderfynol ein bod yn agor aelodaeth y byrddau i ystod ehangach o unigolion nag a wnaethpwyd hyd yma. Mae cronfa o ddoniau yng Nghymru y mae angen inni eu meithrin, ac yna eu defnyddio. Gallwn ymestyn allan mewn nifer o ffyrdd gwahanol i wneud y swyddi pwysig hyn yn hygyrch yn fwy eang, megis sesiynau blasu i aelodau posibl o’r byrddau a sesiynau hyfforddi lle y gall unigolion sydd â diddordeb baratoi eu hunain yn well i ymgymryd â chyfrifoldebau newydd, sef pwynt a wnaeth David Melding wrthyf yn ystod trafodaeth gynharach. Bwriadaf i’r dull hwn o weithredu gael ei wreiddio yn y ffordd yr ydym yn gweithredu yn y GIG newydd yng Nghymru.

Wrth sefydlu’r cyrff lleol hyn, mae’n sylfaenol bwysig i mi eu bod yn gallu gwella’r gofal i gleifion drwy leihau biwrocratiaeth a chael gwared ar derfynau artiffisial yn y GIG. Byddai hyn yn caniatáu i ragor o arian gael ei sianelu i wasanaethau rheng flaen, ac i gynllunio a datblygu gwasanaethau fel eu bod wedi’u cydgysylltu’n fwy effeithiol yng nghyd-destun cynlluniau cymunedol a chyfeiriad strategol y Llywodraeth ar gyfer gofal iechyd yng Nghymru.

4.30 p.m.

In September, Jonathan Morgan said that we want to see a national health service that is more streamlined, not as bureaucratic and less costly to administer. I agree. What is also important to me is achieving simple but robust lines of accountability to and from NHS bodies and from them to local communities, together with transparency in the operation of these bodies to the public. The national advisory board and the seven local health boards will allow me to improve patient care by creating a simpler planning system that ensures that stakeholders and partners are part of the planning process and able to exercise an influence on the direction of future policy. I will also be able to ask the stakeholders and partners for advice on any areas about which I have concerns.

Ym mis Medi, dywedodd Jonathan Morgan ein bod am weld gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol sy’n symlach, yn llai biwrocrataidd ac yn llai drud i’w weinyddu. Yr wyf yn cytuno. Yr hyn sy’n bwysig i mi hefyd yw sicrhau llinellau atebolrwydd syml ond cadarn â chyrff GIG a rhyngddynt hwy a chymunedau lleol, ynghyd â dull o weithredu yn y cyrff hyn sy’n dryloyw i’r cyhoedd. Bydd y bwrdd cynghori cenedlaethol a’r saith bwrdd iechyd lleol yn caniatáu imi wella gofal i gleifion drwy greu system gynllunio symlach sy’n sicrhau bod rhanddeiliaid a phartneriaid yn rhan o’r broses gynllunio a’u bod yn gallu dylanwadu ar gyfeiriad polisi yn y dyfodol. Byddaf hefyd yn gallu gofyn am gyngor gan y rhanddeiliaid a’r partneriaid ynghylch unrhyw feysydd yr wyf yn pryderu ynglŷn ä hwy.

I will also ensure greater accountability to Government and the population by creating an open and transparent governance and accountability structure; meetings will be in public, with papers to be in the public domain. In September, William Graham said that public accountability must remain paramount. That is absolutely true. That concludes the update that I wish to provide for Members on the progress in restructuring the NHS in Wales.

Byddaf hefyd yn sicrhau mwy o atebolrwydd i’r Llywodraeth ac i’r cyhoedd drwy greu strwythur llywodraethu ac atebolrwydd sy’n agored ac yn dryloyw; cynhelir cyfarfodydd yn gyhoeddus, a bydd papurau ar gael i’r cyhoedd. Ym mis Medi, dywedodd William Graham fod yn rhaid i atebolrwydd cyhoeddus barhau’n brif ystyriaeth. Mae hynny’n hollol wir. Dyna ddiwedd y diweddariad y dymunaf ei roi i Aelodau am y cynnydd o ran ailstrwythuro’r GIG yng Nghymru.

Jonathan Morgan: I thank the Minister for the statement and the update. We know that this is a huge project, and we appreciate the fact that you are willing to provide regular updates because of the complexity and enormity of the changes that you are trying to bring about. I thank you also for the two mentions in your statement; I do that hesitantly, because I understand that the quickest way to be a casualty in any political party’s reshuffle is to get positive mentions from the opposition. However, as you know, I take this process extremely seriously. We want to contribute to what we hope will be a hugely positive change to the way in which the NHS is designed in Wales and the way in which patient services are delivered.

Jonathan Morgan: Diolch i’r Gweinidog am y datganiad ac am y diweddariad. Gwyddom fod y prosiect hwn yn un anferth, ac yr ydym yn gwerthfawrogi’r ffaith eich bod yn barod i roi diweddariadau rheolaidd oherwydd natur gymhleth y newidiadau yr ydych yn ceisio eu gwneud ac oherwydd eu bod mor fawr. Diolch ichi hefyd am y ddau gyfeiriad ataf yn eich datganiad; gwnaf hynny’n betrus, gan fy mod yn deall mai’r ffordd gyntaf i ddioddef mewn unrhyw ad-drefnu gan blaid wleidyddol yw cael canmoliaeth gan eich gwrthwynebwyr. Fodd bynnag, fel y gwyddoch, mae’r broses hon yn bwysig iawn yn fy ngolwg. Yr ydym am gyfrannu at yr hyn a fydd, yr ydym yn gobeithio, yn newid llesol iawn ym mhatrwm y GIG yng Nghymru ac yn y dull o gyflenwi gwasanaethau i gleifion.

To deal first with the new NHS bodies, I am concerned about the use of the local health board model. I know that there is a considerable degree of pride on that side of the Chamber that the local health board model was designed in Wales, but it has some flaws. I am pleased that you have said that you wish to look at the experiences of the trust model and the LHB model. However, the LHB model can be somewhat cumbersome: it is a stakeholder model that relies on having representatives from all of the various parts of what the local health boards were providing and commissioning in terms of services. If that was to be extended under the new arrangements, bearing in mind the number of acute specialities, community healthcare services, mental health service provision, GP provision, dental provision, the nursing profession and allied health professionals, you could have a variety of people who would need, or feel that they would need, to be represented on these new boards. That could make it really difficult for those boards to take decisions.

Gan ddelio’n gyntaf â’r cyrff GIG newydd, yr wyf yn bryderus ynghylch defnyddio model y bwrdd iechyd lleol. Gwn fod cryn falchder ar yr ochr acw i’r Siambr fod model y bwrdd iechyd lleol wedi’i ddyfeisio yng Nghymru, ond mae rhai diffygion ynddo. Yr wyf yn falch ichi ddweud eich bod yn dymuno ystyried y profiadau gyda model yr ymddiriedolaeth a model y BILl. Er hynny, gall model y BILl fod braidd yn feichus: model i randdeiliaid ydyw sy’n dibynnu ar gael cynrychiolwyr o holl rannau gwahanol yr hyn yr oedd y byrddau iechyd lleol yn ei ddarparu a’i gomisiynu o ran gwasanaethau. Pe câi hynny ei ymestyn dan y trefniadau newydd, a chofio nifer yr arbenigaethau acíwt, gwasanaethau gofal iechyd cymunedol, darpariaethau’r gwasanaeth iechyd meddwl, darpariaethau meddygon teulu, darpariaethau deintyddol, y proffesiwn nyrsio a gweithwyr proffesiynol perthynol i iechyd, gallech gael amrywiaeth o bobl y byddai arnynt angen, neu a deimlai fod arnynt angen, cael eu cynrychioli ar y byrddau newydd hyn. Gallai hynny ei gwneud yn anodd iawn i’r byrddau hynny wneud penderfyniadau.

I hope that, in response to me this afternoon, you can outline how there will be rigour in the system and how you think that that system will allow for leadership and innovation, because, in many areas of Wales, leadership and innovation have been key features of the trust model. For example, there are a number of chief executives in Wales who have demonstrated innovation and leadership in the way in which they have delivered local services. You will be seconding one of those leaders to your department next year for a two-year period. There are people like him who have demonstrated real commitment to the NHS, and I fear that the LHB model could deter some of those chief executives from applying for jobs in future because they feel that the process will be too cumbersome and not worth their while.

Yr wyf yn gobeithio y byddwch, wrth ymateb i mi y prynhawn yma, yn gallu dangos sut y ceir trylwyredd yn y system a sut yr ydych yn credu y bydd y system honno’n caniatáu arweiniad ac arloesedd, oherwydd, mewn llawer o ardaloedd yng Nghymru, mae arweiniad ac arloesedd wedi bod yn nodweddion allweddol ar fodel yr ymddiriedolaeth. Er enghraifft, mae nifer o brif weithredwyr yng Nghymru sydd wedi dangos arweiniad ac arloesedd o ran y modd y maent wedi cyflenwi gwasanaethau lleol. Byddwch yn cael un o’r arweinwyr hynny ar secondiad yn eich adran y flwyddyn nesaf am gyfnod o ddwy flynedd. Mae pobl debyg iddo ef sydd wedi dangos gwir ymrwymiad i’r GIG, ac mae arnaf ofn y gallai model y BILl gadw rhai o’r prif weithredwyr hynny rhag ymgeisio am swyddi am eu bod yn teimlo y bydd y broses yn rhy feichus ac na fydd yn werth chweil iddynt wneud hynny.

With regard to the timescale, I am delighted that you have listened to the views of Assembly Members and that the new NHS bodies will be established in shadow form in June and fully operational from October. I remember that, when we discussed this initially, I said that April 2009 was probably too soon and that April 2010 was too far away. I suspect that you have now struck the right balance, and I am delighted that we will see a phased implementation of this substantial change.

Gyda golwg ar yr amserlen, yr wyf yn falch iawn eich bod wedi gwrando ar farn Aelodau o’r Cynulliad ac y sefydlir y cyrff GIG newydd ar ffurf gysgodol ym mis Mehefin ac y byddant yn hollol weithredol o fis Hydref. Yr wyf yn cofio, pan drafodasom hyn yn gyntaf, imi ddweud bod Ebrill 2009 yn rhy gynnar yn ôl pob tebyg a bod Ebrill 2010 yn rhy bell i ffwrdd. Yr wyf yn amau eich bod bellach wedi sicrhau’r cydbwysedd cywir, ac yr wyf wrth fy modd y byddwn yn gweld y newid sylweddol hwn yn cael ei weithredu’n raddol.

I am also delighted that you will start the public appointment process for the chairs and vice chairs. Should I assume from that that you see a role for chief executive positions within the seven new bodies once they have been set up and that those seven chief executives will be appointed by the new boards once they are up and running? I assume that that is the process that we will go through. I think that they need to show a degree of independence from you in the way in which they appoint people to certain key positions. The chief executives, in having that strong leadership role and an operational role in ensuring that services are delivered, need to be appointed independently of Government. There has to be a role there for the new chairs, vice chairs and their boards in ensuring that they recruit the right talent into running their organisations. I would appreciate an assurance on that.

Yr wyf hefyd yn falch iawn y byddwch yn dechrau’r broses penodiadau cyhoeddus ar gyfer y cadeiryddion a’r is-gadeiryddion. A ddylwn gymryd ar sail hynny eich bod yn rhagweld y bydd rôl i swyddi prif weithredwyr yn y saith corff newydd ar ôl eu sefydlu ac y penodir y saith prif weithredwr hynny gan y byrddau newydd wedi iddynt ddechrau ar eu gwaith? Cymeraf mai honno yw’r broses y byddwn yn ei dilyn. Yr wyf yn credu bod angen iddynt ddangos rhywfaint o annibyniaeth arnoch o ran y modd y maent yn penodi pobl i rai swyddi allweddol. Gan fod y prif weithredwyr yn cyflawni rôl bwysig o’r fath o ran arweinyddiaeth a rôl weithredol o ran sicrhau bod gwasanaethau’n cael eu cyflenwi, mae angen eu penodi’n annibynnol ar y Llywodraeth. Rhaid cael rôl yn hynny o beth i’r cadeiryddion newydd, yr is-gadeiryddion a’u byrddau i sicrhau eu bod yn recriwtio rhai sydd â’r doniau priodol i redeg eu cyrff. Byddwn yn falch o gael sicrwydd ynghylch hynny.

Gyda golwg ar fiwrocratiaeth, yr wyf yn derbyn yr hyn yr ydych wedi’i ddweud, a dyfynasoch yr hyn a ddywedais ym mis Rhagfyr. Fodd bynnag, bydd angen ichi ddangos sut y mesurir gostyngiad mewn biwrocratiaeth. Nid oes diben dweud hynny’n unig; mae angen inni ddangos bod trefniadau biwrocrataidd wedi lleihau yn y GIG. Efallai y bydd hynny yn y dull y mae’r broses o wneud penderfyniadau’n gweithredu, o ran darparu gwasanaethau lleol newydd, neu gall ymwneud â’r modd y telir am gyffuriau a thriniaethau newydd, ond mae angen inni ddangos sut y mae’r broses yn symlach a sut y gwneir penderfyniadau’n gynt nag mewn blynyddoedd diweddar.

Joined-up service planning, particularly with regard to community plans, will have to involve local government. There is no way that the seven boards can efficiently provide effective local services without the involvement of local government. We need to know where local government fits into the new process. You know that I am concerned that we did not involve local government in the original consultation, because any joined-up thinking has to involve it. I would like to know how you will involve local government in the future. Unless you start merging structures and pooling budgets—you and the Minister for Social Justice and Local Government might not be keen on doing that—I struggle to see how local government will be involved in any productive way in delivering these community plans and in securing that joined-up thinking around service provision.

Wrth gynllunio gwasanaethau mewn dull cydgysylltiedig, yn enwedig mewn cysylltiad â chynlluniau cymunedol, bydd yn rhaid cynnwys llywodraeth leol. Nid oes modd i’r saith bwrdd ddarparu gwasanaethau lleol effeithiol mewn modd effeithlon heb gynnwys llywodraeth leol. Mae angen inni gael gwybod am y lle sydd i lywodraeth leol yn y broses newydd. Gwyddoch fy mod yn bryderus am na wnaethom gynnwys llywodraeth leol yn yr ymgynghoriad gwreiddiol, oherwydd rhaid ei chynnwys mewn unrhyw feddwl cydgysylltiedig. Carwn wybod sut y byddwch yn cynnwys llywodraeth leol yn y dyfodol. Os na ddechreuwch uno strwythurau a chyfuno cyllidebau—efallai na fyddwch chi a’r Gweinidog dros Gyfiawnder Cymdeithasol a Llywodraeth Leol yn awyddus i wneud hynny—yr wyf yn ei chael yn anodd gweld sut y bydd llywodraeth leol yn ymwneud mewn modd cynhyrchiol â chyflenwi’r cynlluniau cymunedol hyn a sicrhau meddwl cydgysylltiedig ynghylch darparu gwasanaethau.

I will finish by discussing accountability. I accept that you, as Minister, need to be accountable to us and to the people of Wales with regard to the way in which the £6 billion in your budget is spent. However, I do not think that you need to do that by being the chair of the NHS. You and I have different views on this; I doubt that you will change your mind. There is a huge difference between being a Minister who is accountable to the Chamber and responsible for the delivery of the strategic direction of the NHS, and being responsible for the day-to-day nuts and bolts of what the NHS does. You will be unique on the frontbench as the only Minister in Government doing that, in comparison with the Minister for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills, the Minister for Social Justice and Local Government, the Minister for Heritage, or whomever. I urge you to consider whether it is appropriate for the Minister for Health and Social Services to be the chair of the national health service. It may fit your own personality, as Minister and as an individual politician, but I severely doubt that it will suit your successor in the role of Minister for health. Therefore, I urge you once again to reconsider that part of the restructuring process.

Terfynaf drwy ymdrin ag atebolrwydd. Yr wyf yn derbyn bod angen i chi, fel Gweinidog, fod yn atebol i ni ac i bobl Cymru o ran y modd y bydd y £6 biliwn sydd yn eich cyllideb yn cael ei wario. Er hynny, ni chredaf fod angen ichi wneud hynny drwy fod yn gadeirydd ar y GIG. Mae gwahaniaeth barn rhyngom am hyn; mae’n amheus gennyf a fyddwch yn newid eich meddwl. Mae gwahaniaeth aruthrol rhwng bod yn Weinidog sy’n atebol i’r Siambr ac sy’n gyfrifol am sicrhau cyfeiriad strategol y GIG, a bod yn gyfrifol am fanylion yr hyn y mae’r GIG yn ei wneud o ddydd i ddydd. Byddwch yn unigryw ar y fainc flaen gan mai chi fydd yr unig Weinidog yn y Llywodraeth sy’n gwneud hynny, o’ch cymharu â’r Gweinidog dros Blant, Addysg, Dysgu Gydol Oes a Sgiliau, y Gweinidog dros Gyfiawnder Cymdeithasol a Llywodraeth Leol, y Gweinidog dros Dreftadaeth, neu pwy bynnag y bo. Fe’ch anogaf i ystyried a yw’n briodol i’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol fod yn gadeirydd y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Efallai ei fod yn gweddu i’ch personoliaeth chi, fel Gweinidog ac fel gwleidydd unigol, ond yr wyf yn amheus iawn a fydd yn gweddu i’ch olynydd yn rôl y Gweinidog dros iechyd. Felly, yr wyf yn eich annog unwaith eto i ailystyried y rhan honno o’r broses ailstrwythuro.

Edwina Hart: Thank you for your comments. I will start by discussing the issues around the LHB model. Like you, I thought long and hard before I went for this model, because I was concerned about the stakeholder involvement. Following the consultation, there will be a relatively small board, but there will be a stakeholder group underneath that can deal with some of the issues and advise the board. That will be the direction of travel. I understand what you said about not having a cumbersome board if we are to deliver the strategy that we require.

Edwina Hart: Diolch ichi am eich sylwadau. Dechreuaf drwy drafod y materion sy’n ymwneud â model y BILl. Fel chithau, bûm  yn dwys ystyried am gryn amser cyn dewis y model hwn, gan fy mod yn bryderus ynghylch cynnwys rhanddeiliaid. Wedi’r ymgynghoriad, bydd bwrdd cymharol fach, ond bydd grŵp rhanddeiliaid oddi tano sy’n gallu delio â rhai o’r materion a chynghori’r bwrdd. I’r cyfeiriad hwnnw yr ydym yn mynd. Yr wyf yn deall yr hyn a ddywedasoch ynghylch peidio â chael bwrdd beichus os ydym i gyflawni’r strategaeth y mae arnom ei hangen.

There are some good people within the service and we want them to apply for the jobs that will now be available in the service. There is an issue about the chief executive positions and who should be involved in their appointments. I will have discussions with the new director of the NHS in Wales, Paul Williams, whose background was as the chief executive of the largest trust in Wales, because it is important that chairs are involved in the appointments of chief executives. I would like to make it clear that it is incumbent upon us to ensure that we have the best from everywhere when considering who we want to run these health organisations. Careful consideration will have to be given to that particular area.

Mae rhai pobl dda yn y gwasanaeth ac yr ydym am iddynt ymgeisio am y swyddi a fydd ar gael yn awr yn y gwasanaeth. Mae cwestiwn yn codi ynghylch swyddi’r prif weithredwyr a phwy a ddylai fod yn gysylltiedig â’u penodi. Caf drafodaethau â chyfarwyddwr newydd y GIG yng Nghymru, Paul Williams, a oedd cyn hynny’n brif weithredwr i’r ymddiriedolaeth fwyaf yng Nghymru, gan ei bod yn bwysig i gadeiryddion gymryd rhan wrth benodi prif weithredwyr. Hoffwn egluro ei bod yn ddyletswydd arnom sicrhau ein bod yn cael y rhai gorau o bob man wrth ystyried pwy yr ydym am eu gweld yn rhedeg y cyrff iechyd hyn. Bydd yn rhaid ystyried y maes hwnnw’n ofalus.

With regard to the timescales, I have taken the middle ground with the shadow board. It is difficult, because you do not want to leave reforms too late; you want to get them in the right place so that they can look at the budget requirements that they will have for future years. We have just about struck the right balance there. I very much hope that the timescale for taking this forward will be useful.

Gyda golwg ar yr amserlenni, yr wyf wedi sefyll yn y canol o ran y bwrdd cysgodol. Mae’n anodd, gan nad ydych am aros yn rhy hir cyn gwneud diwygiadau; yr ydych am eu cael yn y lle iawn fel y gallant ystyried yr anghenion a fydd ganddynt o ran y gyllideb ar gyfer y blynyddoedd i ddod. Yr ydym yn wedi sicrhau’r cydbwysedd cywir yn hynny o beth. Yr wyf yn mawr obeithio y bydd yr amserlen ar gyfer rhoi hyn ar waith yn ddefnyddiol.

Thank you for your support on the appointment of chairs and vice chairs; we need to get on with this and we need to get the best people available in position so that they have a role and function immediately, as we carry on with the reforms through the shadow board process.

Diolch ichi am eich cefnogaeth ynghylch penodi cadeiryddion ac is-gadeiryddion; mae angen inni fwrw ymlaen â hyn ac mae angen inni gael y bobl orau sydd ar gael yn y swyddi fel y bydd ganddynt rôl a swyddogaeth ar unwaith, wrth inni fwrw ati â’r diwygiadau drwy broses y bwrdd cysgodol.

4.40 p.m.

Service planning issues and the relationship with local government will be key. It will be interesting to see how relationships with local government develop; for instance, how the three local authorities in the Hywel Dda NHS Trust area engage with that trust. How can we get a greater alignment of budgets in that area? We will not talk about pooled budgets, but about the alignment of budgets around issues such as delayed transfers of care—does that require a change in process within the NHS? My Deputy Minister and I have been discussing this. When an assessment is made of a patient, that assessment should be the end of the matter and, following an alignment of the budgets, appropriate payments should be made. Therefore, there is a challenge in some of the service delivery mechanisms that we are considering. Local government will be integral in terms of its membership of these boards, and it will be important to develop good relationships. It will also be important for local government to consider what structures it requires to develop good relationships with the health service in order to secure delivery for patients.

Bydd materion sy’n ymwneud â chynllunio gwasanaethau a’r berthynas â llywodraeth leol yn allweddol. Bydd yn ddiddorol gweld sut y bydd cysylltiadau â llywodraeth leol yn datblygu; er enghraifft, sut y bydd y tri awdurdod lleol yn ardal Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Hywel Dda yn ymgysylltu â’r ymddiriedolaeth honno. Sut y gallwn gysoni cyllidebau i fwy o raddau yn yr ardal honno? Ni fyddwn yn sôn am gyllidebau cyfun, ond am gysoni cyllidebau ynghylch materion fel oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal—a yw hynny’n galw am newid proses yn y GIG? Mae fy Nirprwy Weinidog a minnau wedi bod yn trafod hyn. Pan asesir claf, dylai’r asesiad hwnnw ddod â’r mater i ben ac, ar ôl cysoni’r cyllidebau, dylid gwneud taliadau priodol. Felly, mae her yn rhai o’r mecanweithiau cyflenwi gwasanaethau yr ydym yn eu hystyried. Bydd llywodraeth leol yn elfen annatod o ran ei haelodaeth o’r byrddau hyn, a bydd yn bwysig meithrin cysylltiadau da. Bydd hefyd yn bwysig i lywodraeth leol ystyried pa strwythurau y mae arni eu hangen i feithrin cysylltiadau da â’r gwasanaeth iechyd er mwyn sicrhau bod anghenion cleifion yn cael eu diwallu.

There is also a big issue on accountability. We will never agree about the national board, as you said. I chair a national board that gives a direction on policy and on money—I am not doing the day to day running of the national health service. I think that that is the best way forward, but history will make its judgment on that.

Mae ystyriaeth bwysig hefyd o ran atebolrwydd. Ni fyddwn byth yn cytuno ar fater y bwrdd cenedlaethol, fel y dywedasoch. Yr wyf yn cadeirio bwrdd cenedlaethol sy’n rhoi cyfarwyddyd ynghylch polisi ac arian—nid wyf yn rhedeg y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol o ddydd i ddydd. Credaf mai hynny yw’r ffordd orau ymlaen, ond amser a ddengys.

David Lloyd: I thank the Minister for her statement. I welcome the general direction of travel and applaud the Assembly Government policy objective of abolishing the internal market in the health service, as you note in your statement. It is pleasing, as Jonathan Morgan mentioned, that matters are evolving as more responses come in, from various professions in the national health service and from Assembly Members.

David Lloyd: Diolch i’r Gweinidog am ei datganiad. Yr wyf yn croesawu’r cyfeiriad cyffredinol yr ydym yn mynd iddo ac yn cymeradwyo amcan polisi Llywodraeth y Cynulliad o ddileu’r farchnad fewnol yn y gwasanaeth iechyd, fel yr ydych yn nodi yn eich datganiad. Mae’n beth braf, fel y dywedodd Jonathan Morgan, fod materion yn datblygu wrth i fwy o ymatebion ddod i law, gan wahanol broffesiynau yn y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol a chan Aelodau o’r Cynulliad.

Given that I still sometimes work in the NHS, I am, naturally, at the coalface of representations as regards restructuring, so I will put some points to you that have been raised with me. First, we currently have three cancer networks in Wales; I have received representations to the effect that those three multidisciplinary cancer networks work extremely well over varied geographical areas. How will they fit in to the seven new local health board areas? What are your plans concerning the three cancer networks and how will they work? I support wholeheartedly the idea that function is all important in this restructuring, and that function will not be hampered by structures getting in the way. We have a potential issue as regards how the three cancer networks will work within the seven new health boards.

Gan fy mod yn dal i weithio o bryd i’w gilydd yn y GIG, mae’n naturiol fy mod yn cael sylwadau ynghylch ailstrwythuro wrth fy ngwaith, felly rhoddaf ichi rai o’r pwyntiau a godwyd gyda mi. Yn gyntaf, mae gennym dri rhwydwaith canser yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd; yr wyf wedi cael sylwadau i’r perwyl bod y tri rhwydwaith canser amlddisgyblaethol hynny’n gweithio’n dda iawn dros ardaloedd amrywiol. Sut y byddant yn cyd-fynd ag ardaloedd y saith bwrdd iechyd lleol newydd? Beth yw eich cynlluniau ar gyfer y tri rhwydwaith canser a sut y byddant yn gweithio? Yr wyf yn llwyr gefnogi’r syniad bod swyddogaethau’n hollbwysig yn yr ailstrwythuro hwn, ac na lesteirir swyddogaethau gan strwythurau. Gallai anhawster godi o ran sut y bydd y tri rhwydwaith canser yn gweithio o fewn y saith bwrdd iechyd newydd.

I have also received representations on the role of hospital consultants in the seven new health boards. I take on board what Jonathan Morgan and others have said regarding the potentially unwieldy nature of the boards if we insist on practically every known profession being represented. I take it from your statement that we are looking to develop professional fora to take these concerns on board. We have some extremely talented hospital consultants in Wales, and we must not allow them to feel sidelined. Therefore, a full role for consultants in the professional fora feeding into the local health boards will be well received.

Yr wyf hefyd wedi cael sylwadau am rôl meddygon ymgynghorol mewn ysbytai yn y saith bwrdd iechyd newydd. Derbyniaf yr hyn y mae Jonathan Morgan ac eraill wedi’i ddweud ynghylch natur feichus bosibl y byrddau os mynnwn gael cynrychiolaeth i bron pob proffesiwn y gwyddys amdano. Cymeraf yn ôl eich datganiad ein bod yn bwriadu datblygu fforymau proffesiynol i ystyried y pryderon hyn. Mae gennym rai meddygon ymgynghorol talentog dros ben mewn ysbytai yng Nghymru, a rhaid inni beidio â gadael iddynt deimlo eu bod wedi’u gwthio i’r cyrion. Felly bydd croeso mawr i rôl lawn i feddygon ymgynghorol yn y fforymau proffesiynol sy’n cyfrannu i’r byrddau iechyd lleol.

In the same vein, my primary care colleagues, of many disciplines—not just medical—also have reservations. Historically, with health service reconfiguration, when big health boards have been created—health authorities were the last ones—primary care appears to get lost and seems to be subservient to secondary care and to hospitals. In developing professional fora involving primary care, the reinforcement of its role should be emphasised. The fact that we are creating seven large bodies does not mean that primary care will be subsumed, as was certainly the case when we had five health authorities—primary care was subsumed and largely forgotten about. Innovation in primary care was stifled then, because secondary care always came first. Bearing in mind that primary care deals with 90 per cent of patients, we need to encourage developments and technologies in primary care as much as we do in secondary care, if not more.

Yn yr un modd, mae amheuon hefyd gan fy nghydweithwyr ym maes gofal sylfaenol, mewn llawer disgyblaeth—nid rhai meddygol yn unig. Yn y gorffennol, wrth ailgyflunio’r gwasanaeth iechyd, a byrddau iechyd mawr yn cael eu creu—awdurdodau iechyd oedd y rhai diwethaf—mae’n ymddangos bod colli golwg ar ofal sylfaenol ac mae’n ymddangos yn israddol i ofal eilaidd ac i ysbytai. Wrth ddatblygu fforymau proffesiynol sy’n cynnwys gofal sylfaenol, dylid pwysleisio bod ei rôl yn cael ei hatgyfnerthu. Nid yw’r ffaith ein bod yn creu saith corff mawr yn golygu y bydd gofal sylfaenol yn cael ei ogynnwys, fel a ddigwyddodd yn sicr pan oedd gennym bum awdurdod iechyd—cafodd gofal sylfaenol ei ogynnwys a’i anghofio i raddau helaeth. Mygwyd arloesi ym maes gofal sylfaenol bryd hynny, oherwydd bod gofal eilaidd bob tro’n dod yn gyntaf. A chofio bod gofal sylfaenol yn delio â 90 y cant o gleifion, mae angen inni annog datblygiadau a thechnolegau ym maes gofal sylfaenol i’r un graddau ag yr ydym yn gwneud ym maes gofal eilaidd, os nad i fwy o raddau.

Finally, on local government and specifically social services, the interface between the health service and social services is difficult, specifically on the issue of delayed transfers of care. We have been talking about that for years. The number of delayed transfers of care in Wales remains stubbornly high. In the Northern Ireland model, which has health and social care authorities, the number of delayed transfers of care is a big fat zero.

Yn olaf, o ran llywodraeth leol ac yn benodol, y gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, mae’r rhyng-gysylltiad rhwng y gwasanaeth iechyd a’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn anodd, yn enwedig o ran mater oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal. Yr ydym wedi bod yn sôn am hynny ers blynyddoedd. Mae nifer yr achosion o oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal yn dal yn uchel ac yn gyndyn o newid. Ym model Gogledd Iwerddon, lle y ceir awdurdodau iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, nid oes yr un achos o gwbl o oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal.

Somehow, we have to get what we are always talking about—joint working, pooled budgets, or whatever—working for the benefit of patients. We cannot continue this legacy of delayed transfers of care just because some professional groupings are too precious to get over their jealousies and boundaries concerning their rival professions. They are undermining patient care by delaying the transfer of care. The numbers remain stubbornly high, and we have to do something about the NHS/social services interface. I would value your comments on that, Minister.

Rywsut, rhaid inni sicrhau bod yr hyn yr ydym yn sôn amdano o hyd—cydweithio, cyfuno cyllidebau, neu beth bynnag y bo—yn gweithio er budd cleifion. Ni allwn barhau â’r drefn hon o oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal dim ond oherwydd bod rhai grwpiau proffesiynol yn rhy hunanbwysig i oresgyn eu cenfigen a’r ymgiprys rhwng ffiniau eu proffesiynau. Maent yn tanseilio’r gofal i gleifion drwy beri oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal. Mae’r niferoedd yn dal yn uchel ac yn gyndyn o newid, ac mae’n rhaid inni wneud rhywbeth ynghylch y rhyng-gysylltiad rhwng y GIG a’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Byddwn yn gwerthfawrogi eich sylwadau ynghylch hynny, Weinidog.

Edwina Hart: Thank you, Dr Lloyd. 'Too precious’ is probably the right phrase to use in the context of some of the discussions held between budget holders, whether in the health service or in local government. My Deputy Minister and I have spent a long time discussing how to overcome some of these difficulties. We have been pleased by some of the improvements in delayed transfers of care processes across Wales, and we are looking at the best practice that exists in some areas. I am currently looking at the future assessment requirements and at how we can have closer working. We will be following this through in discussions with the Welsh Local Government Association before the new boards come into operation. This is an opportunity for change, to recognise that there is a new dimension to health, and for local government to start playing a full role in delivering for patients in Wales.

Edwina Hart: Diolch ichi, Dr Lloyd. Mae’n debyg mai 'rhy hunanbwysig’ yw’r ymadrodd cywir i’w ddefnyddio yng nghyd-destun rhai o’r trafodaethau rhwng deiliaid cyllidebau, boed y rheini yn y gwasanaeth iechyd neu mewn llywodraeth leol. Mae fy Nirprwy Weinidog a minnau wedi treulio cryn amser yn trafod sut y mae goresgyn rhai o’r anawsterau hyn. Mae rhai o’r gwelliannau yn y prosesau o oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal ledled Cymru wedi’n plesio, ac yr ydym yn edrych ar yr arferion gorau sydd ar waith mewn rhai ardaloedd. Yr wyf ar hyn o bryd yn edrych ar y gofynion asesu ar gyfer y dyfodol ac ar sut y gallwn weithio’n fwy clòs. Byddwn yn parhau i drafod hyn mewn trafodaethau â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru cyn i’r byrddau newydd ddechrau ar eu gwaith. Mae hyn yn gyfle i newid, i gydnabod bod dimensiwn newydd i iechyd, ac i lywodraeth leol ddechrau chwarae rhan gyflawn wrth ddarparu ar gyfer cleifion yng Nghymru.

You must not be concerned about primary and community care or its involvement. When I last spoke on this, I mentioned the role of the vice-chairs of the seven new bodies who will have specific responsibilities in that area. A key issue in the consultation document will be the representation of primary and community care on the board. It is important that we strike the right balance for primary and community care. Historically, they have been lost in all the discussions about what new cardiac units are needed, and what is needed on this, that and the other. At the end of the day, if we get primary and community care right, we will get a much healthier and better nation, which will mean less expenditure for the secondary care sector in the long run. Therefore, that balance will be dealt with.

Rhaid ichi beidio â phoeni am ofal sylfaenol a gofal cymunedol neu’r rhan sydd ganddo i’w chwarae. Pan soniais am hyn ddiwethaf, crybwyllais rôl dirprwy gadeiryddion y saith corff newydd a fydd yn ysgwyddo cyfrifoldebau penodol yn y maes hwnnw. Un o’r materion allweddol yn y ddogfen ymgynghori fydd cynrychiolaeth gofal sylfaenol a gofal cymunedol ar y bwrdd. Mae’n bwysig inni sicrhau’r cydbwysedd iawn ar gyfer gofal sylfaenol a gofal cymunedol. Yn y gorffennol, yr ydys wedi colli golwg ar hynny yn yr holl drafodaethau ynglŷn â pha unedau cardiaidd newydd y mae eu hangen a’r hyn y mae ei angen ar hyn, ar y llall ac yn y blaen. Yn y pen draw, os bydd gofal sylfaenol a gofal cymunedol yn iawn gennym, bydd gennym genedl iachach a gwell o lawer, a fydd yn golygu llai o wariant i’r sector gofal eilaidd yn y pen draw. Felly, byddwn yn mynd i’r afael â sicrhau’r cydbwysedd hwnnw.

You make a good point that we do not want professions to feel isolated. As you said, it is not only about consultants represented on the professional fora; we want to enhance the role of nurses and other occupations. Other people have a role in discussing some of these issues, and they need to be able to advise the board. Consultants could mention issues via their medical director, but it is important that we have structures in place that earn the confidence of health professionals.

Yr ydych yn gwneud pwynt da nad ydym am i’r proffesiynau deimlo’n ynysig. Fel y dywedasoch, nid oes a wnelo hyn â’r  ymgynghorwyr a gynrychiolir ar y ffora proffesiynol yn unig; yr ydym am gryfhau rôl nyrsys a galwedigaethau eraill. Mae gan bobl eraill rôl o ran trafod rhai o’r materion hyn, ac mae angen iddynt allu cynghori’r bwrdd. Gallai ymgynghorwyr sôn am faterion drwy gyfrwng eu cyfarwyddwr meddygol, ond mae’n bwysig bod gennym strwythurau ar waith y mae’r gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol yn ymddiried ynddynt.

On the three cancer networks, those are not the only networks; I have renal networks, as well as other networks across the piece. I think that Professor Mike Harmer, the Deputy Chief Medical Officer for Wales, is currently taking discussions forward on how to integrate the networks into this work. We currently have three cancer networks, and I have more than seven health organisations. What do we need to do to enhance the networks? How will they work well with the new structures? That work is ongoing at a professional level, by the people who really understand it, namely the consultants and the specialists.

O ran y tri rhwydwaith canser, nid y rheini yw’r unig rwydweithiau; mae gennyf rwydweithiau ar gyfer yr arennau, yn ogystal â rhwydweithiau eraill drwyddi draw. Credaf fod yr Athro Mike Harmer, Dirprwy Brif Swyddog Meddygol Cymru, wrthi’n bwrw ymlaen â thrafodaethau ynglŷn â sut y mae integreiddio’r rhwydweithiau i’r gwaith hwn. Ar hyn o bryd, mae gennym dri rhwydwaith canser, ac mae gennyf fwy na saith sefydliad iechyd. Beth y mae angen inni ei wneud i gryfhau’r rhwydweithiau hyn? Sut y byddant yn gweithio’n dda gyda’r strwythurau newydd? Mae’r gwaith hwnnw’n mynd rhagddo ar lefel broffesiynol, gan y bobl sydd yn ei ddeall o ddifrif, sef yr ymgynghorwyr a’r arbenigwyr.

Jenny Randerson: I remain concerned about the top of the structure, and about your view that you have to be the chair of the advisory board. It would be helpful if you could reconsider that, although I do not hold out much hope for that. However, I place on record that I believe that that should be reconsidered.

4.50 p.m.

As Jonathan Morgan said earlier, it may fit your style, but I doubt whether it would fit your successor’s style. I fear that the whole structure will become caught up in the inevitable party politics of a hands-on ministerial approach. The health service would benefit greatly from being kept at arm’s length from the political process.

Fel y dywedodd Jonathan Morgan yn gynharach, efallai ei fod yn gweddu i’ch arddull chi, ond yr wyf yn amau a fyddai’n gweddu i arddull eich olynydd. Mae arnaf ofn y bydd yr holl strwythur ynghlwm yng ngwleidyddiaeth y pleidiau, rhywbeth sy’n siŵr o godi pan fydd Gweinidog yn mynnu bod yng nghanol y drin. Byddai’r gwasanaeth iechyd ar ei ennill yn fawr o gael ei gadw hyd braich oddi wrth y broses wleidyddol.

Beyond that, I find a great deal to welcome in your statement. I welcome your decision to take your time over this reorganisation, and to bridge the time gap using a shadow board. That is a good lesson, and one that you have probably learned from the swift reorganisation of the trusts. We are still getting reports of what can at best be described as serious teething problems. I had information at the weekend about issues at the Hywel Dda NHS Trust. They are quite mundane issues, but they have a serious impact on patient care. The new trust is not fully up to speed because of the rapidity with which its reorganisation took place. It means that there are posts unfilled, and those gaps could lead, in the worst circumstances, to a serious deficiency in patient care.

Ar wahân i hynny, mae llawer i’w groesawu yn eich datganiad. Yr wyf yn croesawu eich penderfyniad i gymryd pwyll ynghylch yr ad-drefnu hwn, ac i bontio’r bwlch amser drwy ddefnyddio bwrdd cysgodol. Mae honno’n wers dda, ac yn un yr ydych, mae’n siŵr, wedi’i dysgu yn yr sgîl ad-drefnu brysiog ar yr ymddiriedolaethau. Yr ydym yn dal i gael adroddiadau ynglŷn â’r hyn y gellir ei ddisgrifio, ar y gorau, yn broblemau cychwynnol difrifol. Cefais wybodaeth dros y penwythnos am broblemau yn Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Hywel Dda. Maent yn broblemau eithaf dibwys, ond maent yn cael effaith ddifrifol ar ofalu am gleifion. Nid yw’r ymddiriedolaeth newydd yn gallu gweithredu’n iawn oherwydd bod yr ad-drefnu wedi digwydd mor gyflym. Mae’n golygu bod swyddi heb eu llenwi, a gallai’r bylchau hynny, dan yr amgylchiadau gwaethaf, arwain at ddiffyg difrifol o ran gofalu am gleifion.

May I ask you a basic question, Minister? What will you call these new organisations? I am dying to know. I am sick of referring to 'these new health bodies’, and you have used the same phrase. Although I am convinced that you will not fall into this trap, people are increasingly calling them 'new trusts’, which is a danger. The sooner we have a proper name for them, the better. With a new name, we can give them a personality and an identity. It is important that they be distinguishable from the old trusts and that they are not seen as a bigger and better version. The key weakness of the old trusts was seen to be their lack of investment in primary and community care, but that investment is of vital importance.

A gaf ofyn cwestiwn sylfaenol ichi, Weinidog? Pa enw a rowch ar y sefydliadau newydd hyn? Yr wyf ar dân eisiau gwybod. Yr wyf wedi cael llond bol ar gyfeirio at y 'cyrff iechyd newydd hyn’, ac yr ydych chithau wedi defnyddio’r un ymadrodd. Er fy mod yn argyhoeddedig na ddisgynnwch i’r fagl hon, mae pobl yn eu galw fwyfwy’n 'ymddiriedolaethau newydd’, sy’n beryglus. Gorau po gyntaf y cawn enw iawn ar eu cyfer. Gydag enw newydd, gallwn roi personoliaeth a hunaniaeth iddynt. Mae’n bwysig gallu gwahaniaethu rhyngddynt a’r hen ymddiriedolaethau ac nad ydynt yn cael eu gweld yn fersiwn fwy a gwell. Gwendid allweddol yr hen ymddiriedolaethau oedd eu diffyg buddsoddi mewn gofal sylfaenol a gofal cymunedol, ond mae’r buddsoddiad hwnnw’n hollbwysig.

Two things are missing from your statement, Minister. One is whether there will be a specific role for a body to deal with mental health issues in the new structure. I know that you have rejected the idea of a stand-alone mental health trust or body within the organisation, but how we will monitor and account for the provision of mental health services needs to be defined. How can we make sure that it ceases to be a neglected cinderella service? It needs to have a spotlight on it if we are to improve it. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on where that would fit into the whole thing.

The second thing missing is any reference to progress on community health councils, on their structure and their increased responsibilities, which I hope you acknowledge they will need if they are to stand up to the new, giant health bodies. I know that you are working on that separately, but I would be grateful for the latest information on progress.

Yr ail beth sydd yn eisiau yw unrhyw gyfeiriad at y cynnydd o ran cynghorau iechyd cymuned, ynglŷn â’u strwythur a’r cynnydd yn eu cyfrifoldebau, gan obeithio y cydnabyddwch y bydd angen hynny arnynt er mwyn iddynt sefyll yn gadarn yn wyneb y cyrff iechyd anferth newydd. Gwn eich bod yn gweithio ar hynny ar wahân, ond byddwn yn ddiolchgar am y wybodaeth ddiweddaraf ynglŷn â’r cynnydd.

Edwina Hart: Like you, I am keen to sort out the issues surrounding community health councils, including what they will do in future and what resources they will require. I will be issuing a separate consultation document on that in January 2009, and I am currently working with people in the sector on getting the best consultation document that asks the right questions and states the case on how CHCs will be advocates for people when the new bodies are introduced. Dealing with the structure of community health councils is quite a task, but I think that it is the right way forward. Therefore, there will be a consultation, and, if it is helpful to Members, I would be more than happy to make a statement to the Chamber as the consultation document goes out—provided the Leader of the House allows me time to do so in the Chamber.

Edwina Hart: Fel chithau, yr wyf yn awyddus i ddatrys y problemau sydd ynghlwm wrth y cynghorau iechyd cymuned, gan gynnwys yr hyn y byddant yn ei wneud yn y dyfodol a pha adnoddau y bydd eu hangen arnynt. Byddaf yn cyhoeddi dogfen ymgynghori ar wahân ynglŷn â hynny ym mis Ionawr 2009, ac yr wyf ar hyn o bryd yn gweithio gyda phobl yn y sector er mwyn sicrhau’r ddogfen ymgynghori orau sy’n gofyn y cwestiynau iawn ac yn cyflwyno’r  ddadl ynglŷn â sut y bydd y CICau yn eiriol ar ran pobl pan gyflwynir y cyrff newydd. Mae ymdrin â strwythur cynghorau iechyd cymuned yn dipyn o dasg, ond credaf mai dyna’r ffordd iawn ymlaen. Felly, bydd ymgynghori, ac, os yw’n gymorth i’r Aelodau, byddwn yn fwy na bodlon rhoi datganiad i’r Siambr pan gyhoeddir y ddogfen ymgynghori—ar yr amod bod Arweinydd y Tŷ’n caniatáu amser imi wneud hynny yn y Siambr.

On mental health, I have made it clear that vice-chairs will have responsibility, but you might be right—I might have to look again at issues around the definitions. Although I have the vice-chairs watching this, we could also ring-fence budgets for it. Do I need more of a national focus on what the seven bodies are doing if I am to keep everyone focused on the fact that they have to deliver a mental health service? I will give some further consideration to that, if I may.

O ran iechyd meddwl, yr wyf wedi’i gwneud yn glir y bydd gan y dirprwy gadeiryddion gyfrifoldeb, ond efallai’ch bod yn iawn—efallai y bydd rhaid imi edrych eto ar y diffiniadau ac yn y blaen. Er bod y dirprwy gadeiryddion yn cadw golwg ar hyn imi, gallem hefyd neilltuo cyllidebau ar ei gyfer. A oes angen mwy o ffocws cenedlaethol arnaf o ran yr hyn y mae’r saith corff yn ei wneud er mwyn sicrhau bod pawb yn canolbwyntio ar y ffaith bod yn rhaid iddynt ddarparu gwasanaeth iechyd meddwl? Os caf, ystyriaf hynny eto.

The key issue for me is investment in primary and community care. That must be got right within these new organisations. We can manage it, but if we are to get the health service right in Wales, that is where the investment has to go. Chris Jones’s work on primary care priorities will therefore fit very well with the work of the seven new boards.

Y mater allweddol i mi yw buddsoddi mewn gofal sylfaenol a gofal cymunedol. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod hyn yn iawn yn y sefydliadau newydd. Gallwn wneud hynny, ond er mwyn inni sicrhau bod y gwasanaeth iechyd yn iawn yng Nghymru, yn y fan honno y mae’n rhaid buddsoddi. Felly, bydd gwaith Chris Jones ar flaenoriaethau gofal sylfaenol yn cyd-fynd yn dda iawn â gwaith y saith bwrdd newydd.

As for the name of the new bodies, I might call them LHBs, or something like that—I might tack another word on. However, they will definitely not be called trusts; you can be assured of that.

O ran enw’r cyrff newydd, efallai y galwaf hwy’n BILlau, neu’n rhywbeth tebyg i hynny—efallai yr ychwanegaf air arall ato. Fodd bynnag, gallaf eich sicrhau na chânt eu galw’n ymddiriedolaethau. Mae hynny’n bendant.

On the reorganisation—yes, we have learned some lessons. I cannot say that all of the trust mergers have gone well. I would be a liar if I said that everything is hunky-dory in every area of Wales, and I would not want to be accused of lying. There have been teething problems, and the shadow boards will help me to resolve any such problems with the new organisations.

O ran yr ad-drefnu—ydym, yr ydym wedi dysgu rhai gwersi. Ni allaf ddweud bod yr holl uno rhwng yr ymddiriedolaethau wedi mynd rhagddo’n dda. Byddwn yn dweud celwydd petawn yn dweud bod popeth yn iawn ym mhob ardal yng Nghymru, ac ni fyddwn am gael fy nghyhuddo o ddweud celwydd. Mae problemau cychwynnol wedi bod, a bydd y byrddau cysgodol yn gymorth imi ddatrys unrhyw broblemau o’r fath gyda’r sefydliadau newydd.

You asked me to think again about my position as chair of the board. I am beginning to get a bit worried about all these references to my successor. Jonathan was worried when I said that I wondered where he might be reshuffled, and now I am starting to worry about myself with all this talk about a successor. If the next speaker would refrain from using that word, I would be delighted.

Gofynasoch imi feddwl eto am fy sefyllfa fel cadeirydd y bwrdd. Yr wyf yn dechrau poeni braidd am yr holl gyfeiriadau hyn at fy olynydd. Yr oedd Jonathan yn poeni pan ddywedais fy mod yn meddwl tybed a fyddai’n rhan o ryw ad-drefnu, ac yn awr yr wyf finnau’n dechrau poeni amdanaf fy hun gyda’r holl sôn hwn am olynydd. Byddwn yn falch iawn petai’r siaradwr nesaf yn osgoi defnyddio’r gair hwnnw.

The Presiding Officer: The next speaker is Alun Davies, Minister. I do not know what that means. [Laughter.]

Alun Davies: I welcome the statement by the Minister-for-life, and the moves that she has made to streamline management in the national health service in Wales. Many of us across the Chamber feel that there is a desperate need to focus on the provision of front-line services, to streamline management and to move towards an end to the market system in the health service. I think that we all welcome that process.

Alun Davies: Yr wyf yn croesawu’r datganiad gan y Gweinidog dros fywyd, a’r camau a gymerwyd ganddi i symleiddio rheolaeth y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yng Nghymru. Mae llawer ohonom ar draws y Siambr yn teimlo bod gwir angen inni ganolbwyntio ar ddarparu gwasanaethau’r rheng flaen, symleiddio’r rheolaeth a symud tuag at roi terfyn ar drefn y farchnad yn y gwasanaeth iechyd. Credaf ein bod i gyd yn croesawu’r broses honno.

I welcome the announcement that you will adopt the LHB model, promoting an ethos of partnership. I was particularly pleased to hear from your response to Jonathan that you are looking at the role of local government in delivering services in this field.

You also said that you would reach out and open up the membership of the new bodies. A criticism of many public bodies in the past has been that you see the same people doing similar jobs. It is therefore important to open up these new structures, not only to scrutiny and accountability, but also to new people, to enable them to function in different ways.

Dywedasoch hefyd y byddech yn estyn allan ac yn ehangu aelodaeth y cyrff newydd. Un o’r beirniadaethau ar lawer o gyrff cyhoeddus yn y gorffennol oedd eich bod yn gweld yr un bobl yn gwneud swyddi tebyg. Mae’n bwysig felly agor y strwythurau newydd hyn, nid yn unig er mwyn gallu craffu arnynt a sicrhau atebolrwydd, ond hefyd, agor y drws i bobl newydd, er mwyn eu galluogi i weithredu mewn ffyrdd gwahanol.

I was going to ask about timescales and the role of local government, but, in many ways, your statement has answered those points. There has been concern, particularly in south-west Wales, about the timing of these changes. Your statement will be widely welcomed in that area, and I believe that the timescale that you outlined will not only be achievable, but will cause the least possible disruption to services.

Dof i ben drwy ofyn ynghylch y lle sydd i atebolrwydd yn y strwythurau newydd a’r ymgynghori y byddwch yn ei lansio ddiwedd y flwyddyn. Dywedasoch eich bod am weld llinellau atebolrwydd cadarn, ac yr ydym i gyd yn croesawu hynny. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym hefyd am weld cadw’r craffu a’r drefn o benderfynu’n lleol yn y strwythurau newydd. Mae cymunedau ledled Cymru yn ymddiried mewn gwneud penderfyniadau’n lleol, ac maent am i gyrff newydd y GIG gynrychioli eu dyheadau. Felly, gofynnaf ichi sicrhau bod y llinellau atebolrwydd newydd hynny wrth wraidd yr ymgynghoriad y byddwch yn ei lansio ym mis Rhagfyr a phan fyddwch yn mynd ati i wneud cyhoeddiadau pellach i’r Siambr hon, y bydd atebolrwydd, gwneud penderfyniadau’n lleol a democratiaeth leol yn parhau wrth wraidd y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol newydd.     

5.00 p.m.

Edwina Hart: I think that we all want to see streamlined management, but we also need to recognise that when we streamline a bureaucratic process, it sometimes costs money initially, because technology might help to streamline a process, and we have to get the balance right. I think that there could be a greater use of technology within the health service to improve delivery for patients, in appointments systems for example, and a wide range of other such areas. The important thing is that we are not overburdened by management structures and that the structure does become more streamlined.

Edwina Hart: Credaf fod arnom i gyd eisiau gweld rheoli symlach, ond mae angen inni gydnabod hefyd ei bod weithiau’n costio arian i ddechrau pan fyddwn yn symleiddio proses fiwrocrataidd, oherwydd gallai technoleg helpu i symleiddio proses, ac mae’n rhaid inni gael y cydbwysedd cywir. Yr wyf yn credu y gellid defnyddio mwy o dechnoleg yn y gwasanaeth iechyd i wella’r ddarpariaeth i gleifion, mewn systemau apwyntiadau er enghraifft, ac amrywiaeth eang o feysydd tebyg eraill. Mae’n bwysig sicrhau nad yw strwythurau rheoli’n dod yn ormod o faich arnom a bod y strwythur yn dod yn symlach.

I have decided to use the LHB model. I think that it is a good model, because it is a partnership model. You alluded to my comments about local government. There is a challenge for local government in this, in terms of how it sees its future role and functions and how it feels that it can work with the NHS, and what it can do to help with these new developments. Gwenda Thomas and I are having ongoing discussions with local government on how we can take this agenda forward positively.

Yr wyf wedi penderfynu defnyddio model y byrddau iechyd lleol. Yr wyf yn credu bod hwn yn fodel da, oherwydd model partneriaeth ydyw. Yr ydych wedi tynnu sylw at fy sylwadau am lywodraeth leol. Dyma her i lywodraeth leol, o ran sut y mae’n ystyried ei rôl a’i swyddogaethau yn y dyfodol a sut y teimla y gall weithio gyda’r GIG, a’r hyn y gall ei wneud i helpu gyda’r datblygiadau newydd hyn. Yr wyf fi a Gwenda Thomas yn parhau i drafod â llywodraeth leol sut y gallwn symud yr agenda hon ymlaen yn gadarnhaol.                

On the membership of the new boards, I want to get as many people interested in joining them as possible. During the last lot of appointments to trusts, I put in experts from finance, information technology, estates and legal services. We advertised to those professions through their professional journals, and we certainly got a good crop of new non-executive directors on the board. They are able to challenge executive directors in the very complex areas of finance, procurement and IT. We need individuals like that, as well as individuals who understand the community. It is a question of getting the right balance of members on these boards, because they will be big businesses and there will be a need to understand how the balance sheet works and what things mean. That is why I alluded in my statement to the importance of training and taster sessions to encourage more diverse people to be involved in the management of the NHS.

O ran aelodaeth y byrddau newydd, mae arnaf eisiau ennyn diddordeb cynifer o bobl â phosibl mewn ymuno â hwy. Yn ystod y gyfres ddiwethaf o benodiadau i ymddiriedolaethau, yr wyf wedi rhoi arbenigwyr i mewn o wasanaethau cyllid, technoleg gwybodaeth, ystadau a gwasanaethau cyfreithiol. Buom yn hysbysebu i’r proffesiynau hynny drwy eu cylchgronau proffesiynol, ac yn sicr cawsom garfan dda o gyfarwyddwyr anweithredol newydd ar y bwrdd. Gallant herio cyfarwyddwyr gweithredol ym meysydd tra chymhleth cyllid, caffael a TG. Mae arnom angen unigolion fel hynny, yn ogystal ag unigolion sy’n deall y gymuned. Mae’n rhaid cael y cydbwysedd cywir o aelodau ar y byrddau hyn, oherwydd byddant yn fusnesau mawr a bydd angen deall sut y mae’r fantolen yn gweithio a beth yw ystyr pethau. Dyna pam y crybwyllais yn fy natganiad bwysigrwydd hyfforddiant a sesiynau rhagflas i annog pobl fwy amrywiol i ymwneud â rheoli’r GIG.

We do not want any service disruption. The trouble is that this restructuring obviously engenders interest and chat everywhere, and I do not want that to end up disrupting services. I know that this has been a key concern of Members: how will such a reorganisation have an impact in terms of service disruption? We are trying to minimise that risk.

Nid oes arnom eisiau aflonyddu o gwbl ar wasanaeth. Y drafferth yw bod yr ailstrwythuro hwn yn amlwg yn ennyn diddordeb a sgwrs ym mhob man, ac nid oes eisiau arnaf gweld hynny’n aflonyddu ar wasanaethau yn y pen draw. Gwn mai hynny oedd un o brif bryderon Aelodau: beth fydd effaith ad-drefnu o’r fath o ran aflonyddu ar wasanaeth? Yr ydym yn ceisio cwtogi ar y risg hwnnw.

Accountability was mentioned, but it is also about the transparency of the decision-making process, which has been lacking in certain areas of the NHS. To see that, you only have to look at the decisions around why some people have not got the drugs that they need, at the critical report on Health Commission Wales and the lack of transparency. I intend to make these new structures as transparent as possible so that people understand why decisions are being made and for what purpose.

Soniwyd am atebolrwydd, ond mae hefyd yn ymwneud â thryloywder y broses benderfynu, a fu’n brin mewn rhai meysydd o’r GIG. I weld hynny, y cyfan y mae’n rhaid ichi ei wneud yw edrych ar y penderfyniadau ynghylch pam nad oes gan rai pobl y cyffuriau y mae eu hangen arnynt, ar yr adroddiad allweddol ar Gomisiwn Iechyd Cymru a’r diffyg tryloywder. Bwriadaf wneud y strwythurau newydd hyn mor dryloyw â phosibl fel bod pobl yn deall pam mae penderfyniadau’n cael eu gwneud ac at ba ddiben.           

Linked to that is what I will do in terms of announcing how community health councils will work. There are two sides to this, and we will also have to look forward to that consultation in January taking this issue forward.

Yn gysylltiedig â hynny yw’r hyn a wnaf o ran cyhoeddi sut y bydd cynghorau iechyd cymunedol yn gweithio. Mae dwy ochr i hyn, a bydd yn rhaid hefyd inni edrych ymlaen at yr ymgynghoriad hwnnw ym mis Ionawr gan symud y mater hwn ymlaen.  

David Melding: Minister, in going back to the health authority model as it existed before the trust reforms of 1990, you are taking quite a dramatic decision that I do not think is being emulated anywhere else in the United Kingdom. Do you regard your decision as being based on evidence?

David Melding: Weinidog, drwy ddychwelyd i’r model awdurdod iechyd fel y bodolai cyn diwygio’r ymddiriedolaethau yn  1990, yr ydych yn gwneud penderfyniad eithaf dramatig nad wyf yn credu y caiff ei efelychu unrhyw le arall yn y Deyrnas Unedig. A ydych yn ystyried bod eich penderfyniad yn seiliedig ar dystiolaeth?

Edwina Hart: Yes. When I look at what has happened in terms of structures within the NHS and how they have not worked as they should have worked, I believe that I am making this decision on the basis of good evidence. I will be perfectly honest that I am also making a political decision about what I want as the future direction of the NHS—it would be dishonest of me to say otherwise.

Edwina Hart: Ydw. Pan edrychaf ar yr hyn sydd wedi digwydd o ran strwythurau yn y GIG a sut nad ydynt wedi gweithio fel y dylent fod wedi gweithio, credaf fy mod yn gwneud y penderfyniad hwn ar sail tystiolaeth dda. Byddaf yn berffaith onest gan ddweud fy mod hefyd yn gwneud penderfyniad gwleidyddol am yr hyn mae arnaf ei eisiau o ran cyfeiriad y GIG i’r dyfodol—byddai’n anonest pe twn yn dweud fel arall.