Cofnod y Trafodion
The Record of Proceedings

Law Officers

Q1 Leanne Wood: What recent discussions has the Counsel General had with law officers elsewhere? OAQ(3)0127(CGE)

C1 Leanne Wood: Pa drafodaethau’n ddiweddar y mae’r Cwnsler Cyffredinol wedi’u cael gyda swyddogion y gyfraith mewn lleoedd eraill? OAQ(3)0127(CGE)

Q2 Bethan Jenkins: What recent discussions has the Counsel General had with law officers elsewhere? OAQ(3)0128(CGE)

C2 Bethan Jenkins: Pa drafodaethau’n ddiweddar y mae’r Cwnsler Cyffredinol wedi’u cael gyda swyddogion y gyfraith mewn lleoedd eraill? OAQ(3)0128(CGE)

The Counsel General and Leader of the House (Carwyn Jones): I have discussions and correspond with law officers as the need arises, usually on specific issues rather than on a regular basis.

Y Cwnsler Cyffredinol ac Arweinydd y Tŷ (Carwyn Jones): Byddaf yn cael trafodaethau gyda swyddogion y gyfraith ac yn gohebu â hwy yn ôl yr angen, a gwnaf hynny ar faterion penodol fel arfer yn hytrach nag yn rheolaidd.

Leanne Wood: You will be aware that there is a coalition group that supports the establishment of a post bank. I have received legal advice that indicates that the Assembly has the power to establish such a bank. I would like to know whether you have sought similar advice, and whether you agree that establishing such a bank could provide major benefits to many communities, thereby improving access to financial services and securing the future of post offices, especially in those communities that face losing other services such as banking. In Mountain Ash, for example, HSBC recently announced its intention to close the branch there. Will you agree to discuss the establishment of a Welsh post bank with other law officers and with your Ministerial colleagues?

Leanne Wood: Mae’n siŵr y gwyddoch fod grŵp clymbleidiol sy’n cefnogi sefydlu banc post. Yr wyf wedi cael cyngor cyfreithiol sy’n dweud bod gan y Cynulliad y grym i sefydlu banc o’r fath. Hoffwn wybod a ydych wedi ceisio cyngor tebyg, ac a ydych yn cytuno y gallai sefydlu banc o’r fath ddwyn buddiannau sylweddol i amryw o gymunedau, a thrwy hynny wella mynediad i wasanaethau ariannol a diogelu dyfodol swyddfeydd post, yn enwedig yn y cymunedau hynny sy’n wynebu colli gwasanaethau eraill, megis gwasanaethau bancio. Yn Aberpennar, er enghraifft, cyhoeddodd HSBC yn ddiweddar ei fwriad i gau’r gangen yno. A gytunwch i drafod sefydlu banc post i Gymru gyda swyddogion eraill y gyfraith a chyda’ch cyd-Weinidogion?

Carwyn Jones: I support what you say about the post bank, but the way in which to deal with this issue would be for the relevant Minister to examine it, and for that Minister to then seek my advice on the Assembly’s—and in particular the Assembly Government’s—powers over this issue. There would not necessarily be a need for liaison with other law officers elsewhere in the UK.

Bethan Jenkins: What discussions have you had with law officers elsewhere regarding the recommendations of the Cave review, and the body set up to review the water industry in England and Wales? I am extremely concerned that the recommendation on the introduction of competition into the water industry will have dire consequences for Wales. I would be interested to learn whether Wales could be exempted from such a policy. Will you commit to responding to that review on behalf of the Welsh Assembly Government?

Agri-Environment Schemes

Cynlluniau Amaeth-Amgylchedd

Q1 Mick Bates: Will the Minister make a statement on the development of agri-environment schemes in Wales? OAQ(3)0770(RAF)

C1 Mick Bates: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am ddatblygu cynlluniau amaeth-amgylchedd yng Nghymru? OAQ(3)0770(RAF)

The Minister for Rural Affairs (Elin Jones): Transitional arrangements for Glastir are referred to in the written statement that I issued yesterday. I also intend to give support for further organic conversion in the interim period. I have allocated £2.8 million over 2010-12 to support farmers to convert approximately 9,000 hectares of farm land for organic use.

Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig (Elin Jones): Cyfeirir at y trefniadau pontio ar gyfer cynllun Glastir yn y datganiad ysgrifenedig a gyhoeddais ddoe. Yr wyf hefyd yn bwriadu rhoi cymorth i droi mwy o dir yn organig yn y cyfnod interim. Yr wyf wedi neilltuo £2.8 miliwn yn ystod 2010-12 i gefnogi ffermwyr i droi oddeutu 9,000 hectar o dir fferm at ddefnydd organig.

Mick Bates: I welcome the announcement that you made yesterday on transitional arrangements within axis 2, and in particular the provision to offer farmers who have existing agreements an extension of their annual management payments until 2012. That will ease the transition into Glastir for those farmers, who are at the forefront of wildlife-friendly farming. However, given that 8 per cent of Wales’s land is farm land, responsible farming is crucial to protect our biodiversity. It is a sad fact that, despite this commitment to biodiversity and agri-environment schemes, our biodiversity continues to decline. As part of the transition arrangements that you have announced, would you consider an appraisal of all existing farm agreements, so that any farm in a key area for declining species can receive additional advice and support to help keep these species breeding on farm land and to ensure their survival?

Mick Bates: Croesawaf y cyhoeddiad a wnaethoch ddoe ynghylch y trefniadau pontio yn echel 2, ac yn arbennig y ddarpariaeth i gynnig estyniad tan 2012 ar daliadau rheoli blynyddol i ffermwyr sydd â chytundebau presennol. Bydd hynny’n hwyluso’r broses pontio i gynllun Glastir i’r ffermwyr hynny sydd ar flaen y gad o safbwynt ffermio mewn ffordd sy’n gyfeillgar i fywyd gwyllt. Fodd bynnag, o ystyried bod 8 y cant o dir Cymru yn dir fferm, mae ffermio cyfrifol yn hollbwysig er mwyn gwarchod ein bioamrywiaeth. Mae’n drist meddwl bod ein bioamrywiaeth, er gwaethaf yr ymrwymiad hwn i gynlluniau amaeth-amgylchedd a bioamrywiaeth, yn dal i ddirywio. Fel rhan o’r trefniadau pontio a gyhoeddwyd gennych, a fyddech yn ystyried gwerthuso’r holl gytundebau fferm presennol, fel y gall unrhyw fferm sydd mewn ardal allweddol o safbwynt rhywogaethau sydd ar drai, helpu cadw’r rhywogaethau hyn i fridio ar dir ferm ac i sicrhau eu parhad?

Elin Jones: Thank you for your question and your welcome for my statement yesterday on the transitional arrangements. The desire to protect the public investment that has gone into Tir Gofal and Tir Cynnal for biodiversity enhancement on farms and to protect that to 2014, and beyond that under the Glastir scheme, was key in my decision to make the statement yesterday on transitional arrangements. Additional support for farmers in areas of particular interest with regard to biodiversity decline is an issue that we will consider under the tier 2 arrangements of Glastir. Over the summer and up to the autumn, I will be making further decisions on the allocation of funding and the arrangements and geographic distribution of tier 2 funding.

Elin Jones: Diolch ichi am eich cwestiwn a’ch croeso i’m datganiad ddoe am y trefniadau pontio. Yr oedd y dyhead i ddiogelu’r buddsoddiad cyhoeddus a wnaethpwyd yng nghynlluniau Tir Gofal a Thir Cynnal er mwyn ehangu bioamrywiaeth ar ffermydd ac amddiffyn hynny hyd at 2014, a thu hwnt dan gynllun Glastir, yn rhan allweddol o’m penderfyniad i wneud y datganiad ddoe ar drefniadau pontio. Mae cymorth ychwanegol i ffermwyr mewn meysydd o ddiddordeb penodol o ran dirywiad bioamrywiaeth yn fater y byddwn yn ei ystyried dan drefniadau haen 2 cynllun Glastir. Dros yr haf a hyd at yr hydref, byddaf yn gwneud mwy o benderfyniadau ynghylch dyrannu cyllid yn ogystal â threfniadau a dosbarthiad daearyddol cyllid haen 2.

Mick Bates: Thank you for that response. Of course, the Minister is aware that there is a commitment to halt the decline in biodiversity in Wales by 2010 and, thereafter, to improve the situation. Following on from that, I have recently learnt that, according to the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, there is £42.8 million of underspend in the United Kingdom’s common agricultural policy budget. As I understand the rules, this money can be used by devolved administrations to fund national envelope schemes or a permanent transfer to rural development programmes. Meanwhile, as I mentioned, biodiversity in Wales continues to decline, despite Welsh Assembly Government targets to halt that loss by 2010. Minister, you have already stated that you will not operate a national envelope. So, before the 1 August deadline, will you look at directing the underspend in the CAP budget towards rural development programmes, so that environmental land management and the protection of our biodiversity are not neglected over the next three years before Glastir commences?

Mick Bates: Diolch ichi am yr ateb hwnnw. Wrth gwrs, mae’r Gweinidog yn ymwybodol bod ymrwymiad i atal y dirywiad mewn bioamrywiaeth yng Nghymru erbyn 2010 ac wedi hynny i wella’r sefyllfa. Gan ddilyn trywydd hynny, yr wyf wedi cael gwybod yn ddiweddar, yn ôl yr Adran dros yr Amgylchedd, Bwyd a Materion Gwledig, y ceir tanwariant o £42.8 miliwn yng nghyllideb polisi amaethyddol cyffredin y Deyrnas Unedig. Yn ôl fy nealltwriaeth o’r rheolau, gall gweinyddiaethau datganoledig ddefnyddio’r arian hwn i ariannu cynlluniau amlen cenedlaethol neu ei drosglwyddo’n barhaol i raglenni datblygu gwledig. Yn y cyfamser, fel y soniais, mae bioamrywiaeth yng Nghymru yn parhau i ddirywio, er gwaethaf targedau Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i atal y dirywiad hwnnw erbyn 2010. Weinidog, yr ydych eisoes wedi datgan na fyddwch yn gweithredu cynllun amlen cenedlaethol. Felly, a wnewch ystyried llywio’r tanwariant yng nghyllideb y Polisi Amaethyddol Cyffredin tuag at raglenni datblygu gwledig, a hynny cyn y dyddiad cau, sef 1 Awst, er mwyn sicrhau na chaiff materion yn ymwneud â rheoli tir amgylcheddol a gwarchod ein bioamrywiaeth eu hesgeuluso dros y tair blynedd nesaf cyn cychwyn cynllun Glastir?

Elin Jones: My officials are in discussions with Defra and the UK Treasury on the allocation of any underspend for the purposes of spend under the Wales rural development plan; equally that is being done for England, Scotland and Northern Ireland. As you will probably know, Mick, historically, the underspend has been reallocated to the European Commission. It has therefore not affected the UK rebate. The Treasury is keen to protect its position on the UK rebate and its funding. Therefore, discussions are ongoing between us, Defra, the Scottish Government and the Northern Ireland Government with the UK Treasury on the allocation of this underspend and whether we can access it.

Elin Jones: Mae fy swyddogion yn cael trafodaethau â Defra a Thrysorlys y DU ar ddyrannu unrhyw danwariant er mwyn ei wario dan gynllun datblygu gwledig Cymru; gwneir hynny yn Lloegr, yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon yn yr un modd. Fel y gwyddoch mae’n siŵr, Mick, yn hanesyddol, caiff y tanwariant ei ailddyrannu i’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd. Nid yw felly wedi effeithio ar ad-daliad y DU. Mae’r Trysorlys yn awyddus i warchod ei sefyllfa ar ad-daliad y DU a’i gyllid. Felly, mae trafodaethau gyda Thrysorlys y DU ar y gweill rhyngom ni, Defra, Llywodraeth yr Alban a Llywodraeth Gogledd Iwerddon ynghylch dyrannu’r tanwariant hwn ac i weld a allwn fanteisio arno.

Bethan Jenkins: Hoffwn innau hefyd gymryd y cyfle i groesawu eich datganiad ysgrifenedig ar drefniadau pontio. Mae gennyf ddiddordeb arbennig yn y sylwadau ynghylch ffermwyr organig. Mae manteisio amgylcheddol amlwg i ffermio organig. A allwch roi rhagor o fanylion inni am y gefnogaeth a fodd ar gael o fewn fframwaith Glastir er mwyn i ffermwyr allu trawsnewid eu ffermydd i fod yn organig?

Bethan Jenkins: I also wish to take the opportunity to welcome your written statement on transition arrangements. I have a particular interest in the comments made regarding organic farmers. There are obvious environmental benefits of organic farming. Can you give us further details on the support that will be available within the Glastir framework so that farmers can covert to organic farming?

Elin Jones: Yr wyf yn cydnabod bod manteision o ran cynnyrch ar gyfer cwsmeriaid sydd eisiau prynu cynnyrch bwyd organig, ond hefyd mae manteision i’r amgylchedd ehangach yn sgil ffermio organig. Dyna paham yr wyf wedi cydnabod bod angen inni, dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf, ymestyn y cynllun—mae angen inni barhau â’r cynllun trosi i ffermio organig, a pharhau i ariannu hynny yng Nghymru. Rhaid inni hefyd gydnabod y bydd unrhyw ffermwr sydd wedi trosi i ffermio’n organig yn gymwys i leihau’r pwyntiau ar gyfer ymuno â Glastir, gan gydnabod bod ffermio organig, yn ei hanfod, o fudd i’r amgylchedd naturiol ac ar gyfer diwallu rhai o’n hamcanion o dan Glastir ar gyfer lleihau cyfraniad amaethyddiaeth tuag at newid yn yr hinsawdd.

1.40 p.m.

Local Food

Bwyd Lleol

C2 Helen Mary Jones: Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn eu cymryd i hybu mynediad i fwyd lleol? OAQ(3)0781(RAF)

Q2 Helen Mary Jones: What steps is the Welsh Assembly Government taking to promote the availability of local food? OAQ(3)0781(RAF)

Elin Jones: Yn ddiweddar, cyhoeddais y cynllun gweithredu cyrchu lleol, sy’n amlinellu mesurau i gynyddu faint o fwyd lleol y mae cwsmeriaid a’r sector cyhoeddus yn ei brynu a’i fwyta yng Nghymru.

Elin Jones: I recently announced the publication of the local sourcing action plan, which outlines measures to increase the supply and consumption of local food by both consumers and the public sector in Wales.

Helen Mary Jones: Un ffordd bwysig o sicrhau y gall pobl gael bwyd lleol yw drwy hybu’r cyfleoedd iddynt dyfu eu bwyd eu hunain. Yr wyf wedi cael sawl cais yn ddiweddar gan grwpiau cymunedol yn fy ardal i, sy’n chwilio am dir lle y gallant gydweithredu i dyfu eu bwyd eu hunain. Pa drafodaethau yr ydych wedi’u cael gyda Gweinidogion eraill ynglŷn â’r posibilrwydd o ddefnyddio tir cyhoeddus nas defnyddir ar hyn o bryd i alluogi cymunedau i dyfu eu bwyd eu hunain?

Helen Mary Jones: One important way of ensuring that people can source local food is by promoting opportunities for them to grow their own food. I have received a number of requests recently from community groups in my area that are looking for land where they can collaborate to grow their own food. What discussions are you having with other Ministers regarding the possibility of using public land which is not currently used to enable communities to grow their own food?

Elin Jones: Nid wyf wedi cael unrhyw drafodaethau uniongyrchol gydag unrhyw Weinidog arall ar nodi tir cyhoeddus ar gyfer hyn. Serch hynny, yr wyf wedi gofyn i’m swyddogion ystyried pa gyfleoedd sydd ar gael i’r Llywodraeth ystyried rhoi mwy o gefnogaeth i alluogi cymunedau i dyfu a chynhyrchu eu bwyd eu hunain. Gallaf ymateb i hynny ar ôl yr haf. Yr wyf hefyd yn edrych i weld a yw’n bosibl, o dan y cynllun datblygu gwledig, i roi cefnogaeth ariannol i grwpiau sy’n awyddus i ddatblygu’r gallu i gynhyrchu bwyd yn lleol ar dir cymunedol.

Elin Jones: I have had no direct discussions with other Ministers on identifying public land for this purpose. However, I have asked my officials to consider the opportunities available for the Government to provide more support to enable communities to grow and produce their own food. I will be able to respond to that after the summer. I am also looking at whether it is possible, under the rural development plan, to provide financial support to groups that are keen to develop the ability to produce food locally on community land.

Alun Cairns: The promotion of local food is important. Some large supermarkets, particularly Tesco, claim to be supporting local produce. However, laverbread was taken off the shelves in Tesco in January, and having checked today, it is still not back on the shelves, despite promises by the supermarket. What representation do you make, not only to Tesco, but to supermarkets in general, about the part that they should play in supporting local food? What part are other Assembly agencies and Assembly funded bodies that are aimed at promoting local produce and food playing in lobbying these organisations?

Alun Cairns: Mae hyrwyddo bwyd lleol yn bwysig. Mae rhai archfarchnadoedd mawr, yn enwedig Tesco, yn honni eu bod yn cefnogi cynnyrch lleol. Fodd bynnag, tynnwyd bara lawr oddi ar silffoedd Tesco ym mis Ionawr, ac wedi holi heddiw nid yw wedi ei roi yn ôl ar y silffoedd eto, er gwaethaf addewidion yr archfarchnad. Pa sylwadau a wnewch, nid yn unig wrth Tesco, ond wrth archfarchnadoedd yn gyffredinol, ynghylch y rhan y dylent ei chwarae i gefnogi bwyd lleol? Pa ran y mae asiantaethau eraill y Cynulliad a chyrff a ariennir gan y Cynulliad sy’n ceisio hyrwyddo bwyd a chynnyrch lleol yn ei chwarae wrth lobïo’r sefydliadau hyn?

Elin Jones: Bydd rhaid ichi ysgrifennu ataf ynghylch y mater yn ymwneud â bara lawr a Tesco. Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o’r mater penodol hwnnw. O ran rôl archfarchnadoedd mewn prynu bwyd o Gymru a’i werthu ymlaen i gwsmeriaid, rhaid inni dderbyn mai’r archfarchnadoedd yw’r cyfrwng mwyaf ar gyfer gwerthu bwyd i gwsmeriaid yng Nghymru a thu hwnt. Felly mae’n hollbwysig bod fy adran i a chynhyrchwyr bwyd yng Nghymru yn cydweithio â’r archfarchnadoedd i ddatblygu ac i ehangu faint o fwydydd o Gymru sy’n cael eu gwerthu.

Elin Jones: I will have to write to you on the issue relating to laver bread and Tesco. I am not aware of that specific issue. On the role of supermarkets in buying Welsh produce and selling it on to customers, we have to accept that supermarkets is the largest vehicle for selling food to customers in Wales and beyond. It is therefore vital that my department and food producers in Wales work with the supermarkets to develop and expand the range of Welsh foods sold.

Yn rhinwedd hyn oll, byddaf yn cwrdd â rhai o brif brynwyr yr archfarchnadoedd yn y Sioe Frenhinol yr wythnos nesaf. Os caf gyfle, codaf y mater ynglŷn ag argaeledd bara lawr yn un o’r archfarchnadoedd penodol.

Joyce Watson: When we talk about local food we must consider the whole process, from production to processing, packaging and selling. That way, local food can add real value to the local economy. In the dairy industry, the collapse of Dairy Farmers of Britain has brought into sharp focus the fact that milk production in Wales is mostly transported over the border to be processed in England and returned to Welsh shops and branded as a local product. Do you agree, Minister, that as well as promoting local foods through farmer and producer markets, we should also be looking to boost the ancillary food industries, such as processing and packaging; and instead of seeing jobs exported with the milk, the Assembly Government should be working to restore milk processing in Wales?

Joyce Watson: Pan soniwn am fwyd lleol, rhaid inni ystyried y broses gyfan, o gynhyrchu i brosesu, pecynnu a gwerthu. O wneud hynny, gall bwyd lleol ychwanegu gwerth gwirioneddol at yr economi leol. Yn y diwydiant llaeth, mae cwymp Dairy Farmers of Britain wedi ei gwneud yn amlwg fod llaeth a gynhyrchir yng Nghymru yn cael ei gludo dros y ffin gan amlaf i’w brosesu yn Lloegr ac yn cael ei ddychwelyd i siopau Cymru a’i frandio fel cynnyrch lleol. A gytunwch, Weinidog, yn ogystal â hyrwyddo bwydydd lleol drwy farchnadoedd ffermwyr a chynhyrchwyr, y dylem hefyd fod yn ceisio rhoi hwb i’r diwydiannau bwyd ategol, megis prosesu a phecynnu; ac yn hytrach na gweld swyddi’n cael eu hallforio gyda’r llaeth, y dylai Llywodraeth y Cynulliad fod yn gweithio at adfer prosesu llaeth yng Nghymru?

Elin Jones: I esbonio, er bod llawer o’r llaeth hylif a gynhyrchir yng Nghymru ar gyfer y farchnad laeth yn cael ei brosesu a’i becynnu y tu allan i Gymru yn dilyn cau Hufenfa Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr, parheir i gynhyrchu llawer o gaws yng Nghymru, lle defnyddir llaeth lleol i gynhyrchu caws lleol. Mae Pembrokeshire Cheese Company yn eich ardal chi yn un enghraifft amlwg. Mae’r gallu hwnnw i brosesu yn dal yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, mae’n destun pryder imi fel Gweinidog, yng nghyswllt ein marchnad hylif, fod y gwaith prosesu a phecynnu’n cael ei wneud yn bennaf y tu allan i Gymru. Byddwn yn awyddus i weithio gydag unrhyw fusnes prosesu i weld pa gyfleoedd sydd ar gael i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad gefnogi a datblygu, unwaith eto, y gwaith o brosesu llaeth yng Nghymru, gan nad oes amheuaeth nad ydym wedi cymryd cam mawr yn ôl o ganlyniad i gau hufenfa Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr.

Eleanor Burnham: Beth yn union yr ydych yn ei wneud o ran labeli bwyd Cymreig? Mae pryder nad yw hynny’n ddigwydd yn ddigon aml ac felly nad oes digon o ymwybyddiaeth o darddiad y bwyd, a fyddai’n gwneud y gorau dros Gymru.

Elin Jones: Mae labeli bwyd yn bwysig o ran yr hyn mae’r cwsmeriaid yn ei wybod am y bwyd maent yn ei brynu. Mae gennyf ddiddordeb mawr yn sut y gallwn ni, fel Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, ddatblygu labeli cynnyrch o Gymru ymhellach. Yr ydym eisoes wedi cael cydnabyddiaeth ynglŷn â chig oen a chig eidion o Gymru; yr ydym yn edrych ar y posibilrwydd o ymestyn hynny i gig moch ac i’r sector laeth hefyd. Fodd bynnag, ar hyn o bryd, mae’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd wedi cyhoeddi ei fod yn ystyried edrych unwaith eto ar yr holl fater o labeli ar draws Ewrop. Yr wyf yn awyddus ein bod yn rhan o’r drafodaeth honno, gan fod cefnogaeth drawsbleidiol yma i’r angen i weld labeli cliriach i’r cwsmeriaid o ran tarddiad y bwyd ac union gynnwys unrhyw fwydydd.

Pysgodfeydd

Fisheries

C3 Helen Mary Jones: Pa gamau mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn eu cymryd i hyrwyddo pysgodfeydd yng Nghymru? OAQ(3)0782(RAF)

Q3 Helen Mary Jones: What steps are the Welsh Assembly Government taking to promote Welsh fisheries? OAQ(3)0782(RAF)

Elin Jones: Yr wyf wedi lansio’r daflen 'Bwyd môr ffres Cymreig—beth i’w brynu a ble i’w brynu’, ac es i i ŵyl bwyd môr bae Ceredigion penwythnos diwethaf i lansio llyfryn sy’n hyrwyddo ryseitiau bwyd môr o Gymru. Mae trafodaethau yn cael eu cynnal ar hyn o bryd gyda nifer o archfarchnadoedd i’w cymell i werthu bwyd môr o Gymru.

Elin Jones: I have launched the leaflet 'Fresh Welsh seafood—what to buy and where to buy it’, and attended the Cardigan bay seafood festival last weekend to launch a booklet promoting Welsh seafood recipes. Discussions are now taking place with a number of major retailers to encourage them to sell seafood from Wales.

Helen Mary Jones: Hoffwn ddiolch ichi am gwrdd y bore yma gyda grŵp o bysgotwyr cocos o fy etholaeth i ac o etholaeth Edwina Hart. Yr oeddent yn hynod ddiolchgar eich bod wedi cymryd yr amser i wrando ar eu pryderon, sydd yn deilio’n rhannol o’r sefyllfa ddŵr yng nghilfach Tywyn. Yr oeddent yn croesawu’n fawr y ffaith eich bod yn gallu rhoi sicrwydd iddynt fod y tasglu sy’n gweithio ar y mater hwn yn mynd i fod yn un effeithiol a’ch bod chi a’ch cyd-Weinidog, Jane Davidson, yn disgwyl adroddiad clir. Gofynnaf ichi unwaith eto, yn gyhoeddus, i ddatgan na fyddwch yn fodlon i’r tasglu beidio â gwneud gwaith trylwyr ac eich bod yn disgwyl adroddiad llawn yn sgîl y buddsoddiad a wnaed gan y Llywodraeth yn y gwaith yn barod.

Helen Mary Jones: I wish to thank you for meeting this morning with a group of cockle fishermen from my constituency and from Edwina Hart’s constituency. They were extremely grateful that you had taken the time to listen to their concerns, which partly stem from the water situation in the Burry inlet. They warmly welcomed the fact that you were able to reassure them that the taskforce looking into this matter would be effective and that you and your fellow Minister, Jane Davidson, are expecting a clear report. I ask you again, in public, to declare that you want the taskforce to do a thorough job and that you are expecting a full report, given the amount that the Government has already invested in the work.

Elin Jones: Yr oedd yn bleser cael y cyfle i gwrdd â rhai o bysgotwyr cocos eich ardal chi a phenrhyn Gŵyr. Mae’r hyn sy’n digwydd i’r cyflenwad cocos yn y bae penodol hwnnw yn fater o gonsýrn i bysgotwyr ac i eraill yn yr ardal. Dyna pam y mae’r Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd, Cynaliadwyedd a Thai a minnau wedi nodi cyllid ac wedi cael cytundeb y bydd Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd yn dadansoddi’r problemau yn y bae. Yr ydym yn awyddus i weld Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd yn rhoi adroddiad llawn o’r hyn a ddarganfyddir yn sgîl ei hymchwil yng nghilfach Tywyn. Ysgrifennaf atoch chi ac at Edwina Hart i gadarnhau hynny.

William Graham: Minister, you will know that the mandatory catch and release rules for salmon ended on 16 June. I am sure that you will join me in noting with concern that the very low numbers of sea trout and salmon migrating into Welsh rivers continue to decline, and would agree that a catch and release rule is worth promoting further. We have excellent lakes such as Cefn Mably and Cwm Hedd in south-east Wales, where anglers who wish to keep the fish that they catch may do so. What steps have you taken to communicate the need for fishermen to release their catch this season?

William Graham: Weinidog, byddwch yn gwybod bod y rheolau dal a rhyddhau gorfodol ar gyfer eogiaid wedi dod i ben ar 16 Mehefin. Yr wyf yn siŵr yr ymunwch â mi i nodi gyda phryder fod niferoedd isel iawn y brithyll a’r eog môr sy’n mudo i afonydd Cymru yn parhau i leihau, ac y cytunwch ei bod yn werth hyrwyddo’r rheol dal a rhyddhau ymhellach. Mae gennym lynnoedd ardderchog megis Cefn Mabli a Chwm Hedd yn y de-ddwyrain, lle caiff genweirwyr sy’n dymuno cadw’r pysgod y maent yn eu dal wneud hynny. Pa gamau yr ydych wedi’u cymryd i gyfleu’r angen i bysgotwyr ryddhau’r hyn y maent yn ei ddal y tymor hwn?

1.50 p.m.

Elin Jones: The decline in stocks of salmon, sewin and trout affects all rivers in Wales, and Wales is not alone in facing these issues around dwindling numbers, and the role that anglers have played in catch and release has been important. Some of these are issues for my Welsh fisheries strategy, and the implementation plan on that is due to be published within the next few weeks. Development of that will form part of this.

Elin Jones: Mae’r dirywiad mewn stociau o eog, sewin a brithyll y effeithio ar holl afonydd Cymru, ac nid Cymru yw’r unig wlad sy’n wynebu’r problemau hyn ynghylch gostyngiad mewn niferoedd, ac mae rôl genweirwyr wrth ddal a rhyddhau wedi bod yn bwysig. Mae rhai o’r rhain yn faterion sy’n berthnasol i’m strategaeth ar bysgodfeydd Cymru, a disgwylir cyhoeddi’r cynllun gweithredu ar hynny o fewn yr ychydig wythnosau nesaf. Bydd datblygu hwnnw’n rhan o hyn.

Wales Rural Development Plan

Cynllun Datblygu Gwledig Cymru

Q4 Alun Davies: Will the Minister provide an update on the Wales rural development plan? OAQ(3)0777(RAF)

C4 Alun Davies: A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am gynllun datblygu gwledig Cymru? OAQ(3)0777(RAF)

Elin Jones: Mae cymorth drwy’r cynllun datblygu gwledig yn helpu i gadw amaethyddiaeth a choedwigaeth yn gystadleuol, yn gwella’r amgylchedd a chefn gwlad, ac yn cryfhau economi ein cymunedau gwledig. Mae holl elfennau’r cynllun yn weithredol erbyn hyn.

Alun Davies: You will be aware that it is a year since the Rural Development Sub-committee published its report on poverty and deprivation in rural Wales. The analysis that you laid alongside the rural development plan highlights the poverty, deprivation and low-income and low-activity rates in many parts of rural Wales. You identified and described the pockets of poverty that exist throughout rural Wales. Have you any plans to update that analysis in the light of the recession that we have been through? Have you any plans to revise and review the rural development plan with the objective of attempting to eradicate the poverty and deprivation that we see in pockets and parts of rural Wales, not only as the result of the recession but in the context of the recession?

Alun Davies: Byddwch yn gwybod bod blwyddyn wedi mynd heibio ers i’r Is-bwyllgor Datblygu Gwledig gyhoeddi ei adroddiad ar dlodi ac amddifadedd yng nghefn gwlad Cymru. Mae’r dadansoddiad a osodwyd gennych ochr yn ochr â’r cynllun datblygu gwledig yn tynnu sylw at y tlodi, yr amddifadedd a’r cyfraddau incwm isel a’r gweithgarwch isel mewn llawer ardal yng nghefn gwlad Cymru. Gwelsoch y pocedi o dlodi sy’n bodoli ledled cefn gwlad Cymru, a disgrifwyd hwy gennych. A oes gennych unrhyw gynlluniau ar gyfer diweddaru’r dadansoddiad hwnnw yng ngoleuni’r dirwasgiad yr ydym wedi bod yn mynd drwyddo? A oes gennych unrhyw gynlluniau i ddiwygio ac i adolygu’r cynllun datblygu gwledig gyda’r nod o geisio dileu’r tlodi a’r amddifadedd a welwn mewn pocedi ac mewn rhannau o gefn gwlad Cymru, nid yn unig o ganlyniad i’r dirwasgiad ond yng nghyd-destun y dirwasgiad?

Elin Jones: Mae canllawiau Ewropeaidd yn ein rheoli o ran yr hyn a all fod yn gymwys ar gyfer y cynllun datblygu gwledig a’i arian, felly yr ydym yn gorfod gweithio o fewn y cyd-destun hwnnw. Bydd adolygiad hanner tymor o’r cynllun datblygu gwledig, ac mae’n bosibl inni edrych ar rai o’r materion yr ydych chi a’r pwyllgor wedi’u codi fel rhan o hynny. Bydd yr adolygiad yn gyhoeddus, a byddwn yn ymgynghori arno. Hefyd, gyda’r Gweinidog sydd â chyfrifoldeb dros yr economi, yr wyf wedi comisiynu adolygiad penodol o effaith y dirwasgiad ar fusnesau cefn gwlad, ac, yn Sioe Frenhinol Cymru yr wythnos nesaf, byddwn yn cynnal uwchgynhadledd fach ar effaith y dirwasgiad ar fusnesau cefn gwlad.

Andrew R.T. Davies: I have recently spoken to constituents of mine about the organic conversion scheme. Last year, payments for those who took part in the scheme were staged: they received 70 per cent in September and 30 per cent in December. I am led to believe that the indication from the Rural Payments Agency is that, this year, the payments window has slipped, and payments under contracts may not be made until March 2010. Why is that the case? That is a considerable length of time between the money received in one financial year and the next.

Elin Jones: I cannot explain to you why that is the case here and now, but I will ask my officials about it and I will write to you with a response.

Nerys Evans: Mae sawl amcan y tu ôl i’r cynllun datblygu gwledig, ac un ohonynt yw gofalu am economi cefn gwlad, sydd hyd yn oed yn bwysicach mewn dirwasgiad. Yr oeddwn yn falch o glywed, yn eich ateb i Alun Davies, am eich cynlluniau i gynnal uwchgynhadledd fach yn y sioe frenhinol wythnos nesaf. Beth yw eich prif amcanion ar gyfer y cyfarfod hwnnw?

Elin Jones: Dros y misoedd diwethaf, mae wedi bod yn amlwg i nifer ohonom bod rhai busnesau sydd yn gweithredu yng nghefn gwlad—mae busnesau yn y maes amaethyddiaeth yn esiamplau—wedi gweld cynnydd yn y prisiau sydd ar gael iddynt, yn rhannol oherwydd gwendid y bunt. Felly, mae’n bosibl nad yw busnesau yng nghefn gwlad ar eu colled yn sgîl y dirwasgiad. Wedi dweud hynny, mae busnesau cefn gwlad yn llawer ehangach na dim ond y diwydiant amaeth. Mae’n bwysig ein bod ni, gan ein bod wedi comisiynu rhywfaint o waith ar hyn, yn canfod a oes agweddau gwledig penodol i’r dirwasgiad hwn fel y gallwn ymateb i hynny fel Llywodraeth a rhoi cefnogaeth penodol, os oes ei angen, i fusnesau cefn gwlad.

Kirsty Williams: Minister, in looking specifically at rural issues that might arise out of the recession, you will be aware that there are specific rural issues that local authorities have to tackle when trying to deliver a plethora of services. You will know from your own constituency experience how difficult that can be. In the light of that and the initiatives that you are taking in relation to the private sector, what discussions have you had with your local government colleagues to look at changing the local government funding formula so that it better reflects the cost of delivering public services in rural and sparsely populated areas?

Kirsty Williams: Weinidog, gan edrych yn benodol ar faterion gwledig a allai godi o ganlyniad i’r dirwasgiad, byddwch yn gwybod y ceir materion gwledig penodol y mae’n rhaid i awdurdodau lleol fynd i’r afael â hwy wrth geisio darparu llu o wasanaethau. Byddwch yn gwybod o’ch profiad yn eich etholaeth eich hun pa mor anodd y gall hynny fod. Yng ngoleuni hynny a’r mentrau yr ydych yn eu cynnal yng nghyswllt y sector preifat, pa drafodaethau yr ydych wedi’u cael â’ch cydweithwyr mewn llywodraeth leol er mwyn ystyried newid y fformiwla cyllido llywodraeth leol er mwyn iddo adlewyrchu cost cyflenwi gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn well mewn ardaloedd gwledig a phrin eu poblogaeth?

Elin Jones: I had a discussion with rural local authorities and the Welsh Local Government Association rural forum some three months ago on this issue and others that affect rural local authorities or are priorities for them. You will know that as part of the Government’s response to last year’s Rural Development Sub-committee report, which was referred to by Alun Davies, on changes to the funding formula to meet specific rural needs, the Government has accepted that there is a need to review it. However, that is a matter for my colleague the Minister for Social Justice and Local Government.

Elin Jones: Cefais drafodaeth â’r awdurdodau lleol gwledig ac â fforwm gwledig Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru tua tri mis yn ôl ynghylch y mater hwn a materion eraill sy’n effeithio ar awdurdodau lleol gwledig neu sy’n flaenoriaethau iddynt. Byddwch yn gwybod fel rhan o ymateb y Llywodraeth i adroddiad yr Is-bwyllgor Datblygu Gwledig y llynedd, y cyfeiriwyd ato gan Alun Davies, ar y newidiadau i’r fformiwla cyllido er mwyn diwallu anghenion gwledig penodol, bod y Llywodraeth wedi derbyn bod angen ei hadolygu. Fodd bynnag, mae hynny’n fater i’m cyd-Weinidog, y Gweinidog dros Gyfiawnder Cymdeithasol a Llywodraeth Leol.

Local Produce

Cynnyrch Lleol++

+lero;lr

Q5 Nick Ramsay: What discussions has the Minister had with supermarkets with regard to local produce? OAQ(3)0761(RAF)

C5 Nick Ramsay: Pa drafodaethau yn mae’r Gweinidog wedi’u cael gydag archfarchnadoedd yng nghyswllt cynnyrch lleol? OAQ(3)0761(RAF)

Elin Jones: The local sourcing action plan identifies major retailers as a key area for action. The trade development programme managed by my department has regular contact between producers and supermarket buyers. I will be hosting a meeting with key supermarket buyers at the Royal Welsh Show next week.

Elin Jones: Mae’r cynllun gweithredu prynu’n lleol yn pennu siopau mawr fel maes allweddol ar gyfer gweithredu. Mae’r rhaglen datblygu masnach a reolir gan fy adran mewn cysylltiad rheolaidd â chynhyrchwyr a phrynwyr archfarchnadoedd. Byddaf yn cynnal cyfarfod â phrynwyr archfarchnadoedd allweddol yn Sioe Frenhinol Cymru yr wythnos nesaf.

Nick Ramsay: I am pleased to hear that you will host that meeting. I wish to ask you specifically about food labelling—the issue has been raised earlier today—to enable consumers to know exactly where their food comes from. I think that you would agree that we have many great local products and, indeed, great Welsh products in Wales. There is a need to ensure that consumers know exactly what they are buying so that they are empowered to make the right choices. Will you join me in supporting the Honest Food campaign, which is supported by the National Farmers’ Union? Do you support the objectives of that campaign? In terms of produce such as the Welsh pig, you have supported me in helping my constituents to support that brand. Will you join me in ensuring that local labelling helps people to make choices? I think that Welsh consumers, given the choice, will go for the superior brand, which is that made in Wales.

Nick Ramsay: Yr wyf yn falch o glywed y byddwch yn cynnal y cyfarfod hwnnw. Hoffwn eich holi’n benodol am labelu bwyd—mae’r mater wedi’i godi’n gynharach heddiw—er mwyn galluogi prynwyr i wybod yn union o ble y daw eu bwyd. Credaf y byddech yn cytuno bod gennym lawer o gynhyrchion lleol gwych ac, yn wir, lawer o gynhyrchion Cymreig gwych yng Nghymru. Mae angen sicrhau bod prynwyr yn gwybod yn union beth y maent yn ei brynu fel y cânt eu hysgogi i wneud y dewisiadau cywir. A wnewch ymuno â mi i gefnogi’r ymgyrch Honest Food, a gefnogir gan Undeb Cenedlaethol yr Amaethwyr? A ydych yn cefnogi amcanion yr ymgyrch honno? O ran cynnyrch megis y mochyn Cymreig, yr ydych wedi fy nghefnogi i helpu fy etholwyr i gefnogi’r brand hwnnw. A wnewch ymuno â mi i sicrhau bod labelu lleol yn helpu pobl i wneud dewisiadau? Credaf y gwnaiff prynwyr o Gymru, os cânt y dewis, ddewis y brand gorau, sef yr hwnnw a gaiff ei gynhyrchu yng Nghymru.

Elin Jones: There is no doubt that consumers are interested in purchasing local food. However, all analyses suggest that the consumer makes the final decision based on price. Having said that, there is a great deal more that we can do in Wales, as consumers, food producers and the Government, to improve the way that our food is marketed in supermarkets and the labelling of that food. A lot of these issues are outside the direct control and legislative ability of the Assembly, but I had a discussion with Ministers from England, Scotland and Northern Ireland recently in Edinburgh and food labelling is an issue that concerns all administrations. We are keen to progress this discussion, especially in light of the review that will be done at a European level.

Elin Jones: Nid oes amheuaeth nad oes gan brynwyr ddiddordeb mewn prynu bwydydd lleol. Fodd bynnag, mae pob dadansoddiad yn awgrymu bod prynwyr yn gwneud eu penderfyniad terfynol ar sail pris. Wedi dweud hynny, gallwn wneud llawer mwy yng Nghymru, fel prynwyr, cynhyrchwyr bwydydd ac fel Llywodraeth, i wella’r ffordd y caiff ein bwyd ei farchnata mewn archfarchnadoedd a’r ffordd o labelu’r bwyd hwnnw. Mae llawer o’r materion hyn y tu hwnt i reolaeth uniongyrchol a gallu deddfwriaethol y Cynulliad, ond yr wyf wedi cael trafodaeth â Gweinidogion o Loegr, yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon yng Nghaeredin yn ddiweddar ac mae labelu bwyd yn fater sy’n peri pryder i bob gweinyddiaeth. Yr ydym yn awyddus i ddatblygu’r drafodaeth hon, yn enwedig yng ngoleuni’r adolygiad a gaiff ei wneud ar lefel Ewropeaidd.

Mohammad Asghar: I wish to refer to two Plaid Cymru initiatives that the Minister may know about. A petition has been launched, urging supermarkets to treat dairy farmers fairly and to pay them a fair price for their produce. Also, a Plaid Cymru branch has written to supermarkets with loyalty cards, urging them to give shoppers bonus points for buying local produce. Does the Minister agree that if supermarkets were to pay farmers a fair price for milk that could help dairy farmers to survive? Does the Minister agree that a bonus points system would be an excellent way of bringing local produce to people’s attention and encouraging them to buy it, thereby supporting Welsh producers in general?

Mohammad Asghar: Hoffwn gyfeirio at ddwy fenter gan Blaid Cymru y gŵyr y Gweinidog amdanynt o bosibl. Mae deiseb wedi’i lansio, i annog archfarchnadoedd i drin ffermwyr llaeth yn deg ac i dalu pris teg iddynt am eu cynnyrch. Hefyd, mae cangen o Blaid Cymru wedi ysgrifennu at archfarchnadoedd a chanddynt gardiau teyrngarwch, er mwyn eu hannog i roi pwyntiau bonws i siopwyr am brynu cynnyrch lleol. A yw’r Gweinidog yn cytuno petai archfarchnadoedd yn talu pris teg i ffermwyr am laeth y gallai hynny helpu’r ffermwyr godro i oroesi? A yw’r Gweinidog yn cytuno y byddai system pwyntiau bonws yn ffordd wych o dynnu sylw pobl at gynnyrch lleol a’u hannog i’w brynu, a drwy hynny gefnogi cynhyrchwyr o Gymru yn gyffredinol?

2.00 p.m.

Elin Jones: I certainly think that any purchaser of food, whether that is a supermarket or a smaller retailer, should pay a fair price for that food product from the producer. It is true that there is a specific squeeze on dairy farmers at the moment and that everyone who is interested in the future of the Welsh dairy sector and in milk production in the UK should heed the need for dairy farmers to sustain a living from their industry. If we lost more capacity in the dairy industry, there would be a danger of losing the industry in its entirety. We need to continue to produce milk and dairy produce because consumer demand for those products continues apace.

I have not considered bonus cards in supermarkets. That has not been raised with me and, ultimately, it is a matter for the supermarkets.

'One Wales’

'Cymru’n Un’

Q6 Leanne Wood: What progress has been made on achieving the 'One Wales’ commitments relating to the rural affairs portfolio to date? OAQ(3)0799(RAF)

C6 Leanne Wood: Pa gynnydd sydd wedi’i wneud hyd yn hyn o ran cyflawni ymrwymiadau 'Cymru’n Un’ yng nghyswllt y portffolio materion gwledig? OAQ(3)0799(RAF)

Elin Jones: I remain committed to fulfilling my 'One Wales’ commitments in supporting the farming industry and rural communities. I will shortly announce a scheme to support young entrants to farming, which is another 'One Wales’ commitment.

Elin Jones: Yr wyf yn parhau’n ymroddedig i gyflawni fy ymrwymiadau 'Cymru’n Un’ wrth gefnogi’r diwydiant ffermio a chymunedau gwledig. Cyhoeddaf gynllun yn fuan i gefnogi newydd-ddyfodiaid ifanc i ffermio, sy’n un arall o ymrwymiadau 'Cymru’n Un’.

Leanne Wood: 'One Wales’ commits our Government to increase local food procurement. At the moment, people who run allotments and community gardens face difficulties selling their produce. In Budoia in Italy, schools have been able to source their food from local non-commercial growers. Will you agree to look at the example in Italy, discuss it with your ministerial colleagues, and write to me on any progress on that?

Elin Jones: Yes. I would be interested to consider that example, if you provided me with the references for it. Two major issues relate to the procurement of local food by public authorities: the ability of the local authority and other public authorities to procure in a way that enables local producers to supply that market, and the capacity of local producers, whether community producers or small businesses, to ensure that they can respond to the supply continuity required. There may need to be some flexibility in that system to meet the wider objectives of society and Government. I will be interested to look at the example that you outlined in Italy.

Elin Jones: Cytunaf. Byddai gennyf ddiddordeb mewn ystyried yr enghraifft honno, petaech yn rhoi’r gyfeiriadaeth berthnasol imi. Mae dau fater o bwys yn berthnasol i gaffael bwyd lleol gan awdurdodau lleol: gallu’r awdurdod lleol ac awdurdodau cyhoeddus eraill i gaffael mewn ffordd sy’n galluogi cynhyrchwyr lleol i gyflenwi’r farchnad honno, a gallu cynhyrchwyr lleol, boed hwy’n gynhyrchwyr cymunedol neu’n fusnesau bach, i sicrhau y gallant ymateb i’r cyflenwad parhaus gofynnol. Gellid bod angen rhywfaint o hyblygrwydd yn y system honno i fodloni amcanion ehangach cymdeithas a’r Llywodraeth. Bydd gennyf ddiddordeb mewn edrych ar yr enghraifft a amlinellasoch yn yr Eidal.

Alun Cairns: 'One Wales’ commits the Assembly Government to supporting the rural economy, but, following recent redundancies in the dairy industry, there are potential risks in the sheep sector following the introduction of the electronic identification of sheep. A concession was recently gained on control-point reading, which is to be welcomed and the effort made by the Welsh Assembly Government and the UK Government in that respect should be recognised. However, should not a similar concession also be gained from the European Commission on sheep that go directly to slaughter? What work have you done on that, how successful have you been so far, and when will you make a statement on it?

Alun Cairns: Mae 'Cymru’n Un’ yn ymrwymo Llywodraeth y Cynulliad i gefnogi’r economi wledig, ond, yn dilyn diswyddiadau diweddar yn y diwydiant godro, ceir risgiau posibl yn y sector defaid yn dilyn cyflwyno tagiau electronig ar gyfer defaid. Cafwyd consesiwn yn ddiweddar ynghylch darlleniadau mewn mannau rheoledig, sydd i’w groesawu a dylid cydnabod yr ymdrech a wnaethpwyd gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru a Llywodraeth y DU yng nghyswllt hynny. Fodd bynnag, oni ddylid cael consesiwn cyffelyb gan y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd ynghylch defaid sy’n mynd yn syth i’r lladd-dy? Pa waith yr ydych wedi’i wneud ynghylch hynny, faint o lwyddiant a gawsoch cyn belled, a phryd y gwnewch ddatganiad yn ei gylch?

Elin Jones: The Assembly Government is able to provide the derogation on movement straight to slaughter and I am sure that you are aware that we are currently consulting on that.

The Agriculture Industry

Y Diwydiant Amaeth

Q7 Andrew R.T. Davies: Will the Minister make a statement on the future of the agriculture industry in South Wales Central? OAQ(3)0760(RAF)

C7 Andrew R.T. Davies: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am ddyfodol y diwydiant amaethyddol yng Nghanol De Cymru? OAQ(3)0760(RAF)

Elin Jones: My priority is to achieve a sustainable and profitable future for farming families and businesses throughout Wales. The Assembly Government’s 'Farming, Food and Countryside Strategy: Building a Secure Future’, was launched in May.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Thank you for that answer. Your written statement, issued this morning, on the red-tape review group referred to the level of inspection that many farms have to undertake, and more so in South Wales Central with its industrial conurbation. Your statement also referred to the link between local authorities and the rural inspectorate, namely the link officer. Given that many local authorities have great problems meeting many requirements, can you assure me that you and your staff will monitor this situation to ensure co-operation between the rural inspectorate and local authorities’ link officers, especially in South Wales Central, and to ensure that councils in South Wales Central give a key commitment to work with the rural inspectorate to cut down on the number of inspections, thereby freeing up farmers’ time for them to do the job that they should be doing, which is being guardians of the countryside?

Andrew R.T. Davies: Diolch ichi am yr ateb hwnnw. Yr oedd eich datganiad ysgrifenedig, a gyhoeddwyd y bore yma, ynghylch y grŵp adolygu biwrocratiaeth yn cyfeirio at lefel yr archwilio y mae’n rhaid i nifer o ffermwyr ei hwynebu, ac yn fwy felly yng Nghanol De Cymru â’i gytref ddiwydiannol. Yr oedd eich datganiad hefyd yn cyfeirio at y ddolen rhwng awdurdodau lleol a’r arolygiaeth wledig, sef y swyddog cyswllt. Gan fod nifer o awdurdodau lleol yn cael problemau mawr o ran cwrdd â nifer o ofynion, a allwch fy sicrhau y byddwch chi a’ch staff yn monitro’r sefyllfa hon i sicrhau cydweithrediad rhwng yr arolygiaeth wledig a swyddogion cyswllt awdurdodau lleol, yn enwedig yng Nghanol De Cymru, a sicrhau bod cynghorau yng Nghanol De Cymru yn rhoi ymrwymiad allweddol i weithio gyda’r arolygiaeth wledig i docio nifer yr archwiliadau, a drwy hynny ryddhau amser ffermwyr i wneud y gwaith y dylent fod yn ei wneud, sef bod yn warcheidwaid cefn gwlad?

Elin Jones: Thank you for that question. One issue that we have identified as part of the review of red tape is how significantly work can vary from one local authority to another. Therefore, getting a uniform approach from a local authority and the rural inspectorate has been challenging. That is why we have identified the need for local liaison between us, other agencies and local authorities, to work together on the data that can be shared within the legal framework and to see how we can minimise the impact on the farmer of the various roles that different agencies play in regulating and monitoring on-farm activity.

Elin Jones: Diolch ichi am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Un mater a ddynodwyd gennym fel rhan o’r adolygiad o fiwrocratiaeth yw pa mor sylweddol y gall gwaith amrywio o un awdurdod i’r llall. O’r herwydd, bu cael agwedd unffurf gan awdurdod lleol a’r arolygiaeth wledig yn her. Dyna pam inni ddynodi’r angen am gyswllt lleol rhyngom ni, asiantaethau eraill ac awdurdodau lleol, i weithio gyda’n gilydd ar y data y gellir ei rannu o fewn y fframwaith cyfreithiol a gweld sut y gallwn leihau’r effaith y mae’r amrywiol rolau y mae gwahanol asiantaethau yn eu chwarae o ran rheoli a monitro gweithgarwch ar y fferm yn ei chael ar y ffermwr.

The Rural Development Plan

Y Cynllun Datblygu Gwledig

Q8 Andrew R.T. Davies: Will the Minister make a statement on the rural development plan budget for the forthcoming financial year? OAQ(3)0762(RAF)

C8 Andrew R.T. Davies: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gyllideb y cynllun datblygu gwledig ar gyfer y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf? OAQ(3)0762(RAF)

Elin Jones: I am currently engaged in the process of setting budgets for the rural affairs portfolio. Within the rural affairs budget, appropriate funding is being earmarked to enable the commitments under the rural development plan to be delivered.

Elin Jones: Yr wyf wrthi ar hyn o bryd yn pennu cyllidebau ar gyfer y portffolio materion gwledig. O fewn y gyllideb materion gwledig, mae cyllid priodol yn cael ei neilltuo ar gyfer galluogi cyflawni’r ymrwymiadau dan y cynllun datblygu gwledig.

Andrew R.T. Davies: A key plank of the rural development plan is diversification and adding value to produce via the agri-food initiatives. Sadly, Bridgend Creamery, as we are all aware, has shut, and I understand that invitations to tender for the sale of the plant were closed last Friday. It is my understanding, albeit from third-hand information, that no tenders were forthcoming to purchase the plant.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Astell allweddol o’r cynllun datblygu gwledig yw arallgyfeirio ac ychwanegu gwerth at gynnyrch drwy’r cynlluniau bwyd-amaeth. Yn anffodus, mae Hufenfa Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr, fel y gŵyr pawb ohonom, wedi cau, a chaf ar ddeall y caewyd gwahoddiadau i dendro ar gyfer gwerthu’r safle ddydd Gwener ddiwethaf. Yn ôl a ddeallaf, er mai gwybodaeth drydedd-llaw ydyw, ni chafwyd dim tendrau i brynu’r safle.

The Welsh Assembly Government invested a considerable sum of money in the plant, and you, as Minister, opened it. What action are you taking to ascertain whether there is any possibility of reclaiming that money, or has it been financially written off so that it will cause problems for the budget in future?

Buddsoddodd Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru  arian mawr yn y safle, a chi, fel Gweinidog, a’i hagorodd. Pa gamau yr ydych yn eu cymryd i ganfod a oes unrhyw bosibilrwydd adhawlio’r arian hwnnw, neu a yw wedi’i ddileu’n ariannol gan olygu y bydd yn achosi problemau i’r gyllideb i’r dyfodol?

Elin Jones: I can confirm that it will not cause problems for the future budgeting process. However, the funding that was spent on the Bridgend plant is now under discussion between my officials, lawyers and PricewaterhouseCoopers. I shall be meeting with representatives of PwC in a couple of weeks to discuss outstanding issues to do with the closure of the Dairy Farmers of Britain plant.

David Lloyd: Weinidog, a allwch chi amlinellu sut y mae arian Ewrop yn cael ei ddefnyddio i gefnogi amcanion y cynllun datblygu gwledig ac efallai roi enghreifftiau o’r budd sydd eisoes wedi dod ohono i’n hardaloedd gwledig?

David Lloyd: Minister, can you outline how European funding is being used to support the aims of the rural development plan and perhaps give some examples of the benefits that have already accrued from it for our rural areas?

Elin Jones: O’r £800 miliwn sydd yng nghyllideb y cynllun datblygu gwledig dros saith mlynedd, mae tua £300 miliwn yn arian o Ewrop, gyda’r gweddill, £500 miliwn, yn dod o arian sydd wedi ei fodiwleiddio oddi wrth ffermwyr neu arian domestig gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad. Wrth gwrs, mae’r arian hwnnw o’r tair ffynhonnell yn cael ei wario ar y cyd. Mae’r cynllun wedi’i gymeradwyo ar lefel Ewrop ac mae’n cael ei weithredu gan y Llywodraeth yma. Mae Comisiwn Ewrop yn monitro gwariant yn go dynn.

Cynnyrch Lleol

Local Produce

C9 Rhodri Glyn Thomas: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am hyrwyddo cynnyrch lleol? OAQ(3)0780(RAF)

Q9 Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Will the Minister make a statement on the promotion of local produce? OAQ(3)0780(RAF)

Elin Jones: Mae’r cynlluniau gweithredu ar gyfer bwyd lleol a thwristiaeth fwyd yn cynnwys amcanion i godi proffil bwydydd a diodydd o Gymru yn ogystal â chynyddu maint y cynnyrch lleol y mae cwsmeriaid a’r sector cyhoeddus yn ei brynu.

Elin Jones: The action plans for local food and food tourism include objectives to raise the profile of Wales and its food and drink as well as to increase the level of sourcing by consumers and the public sector in Wales.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw, a hefyd am yr atebion blaenorol ar y pwnc hwn. Mae’n amlwg bod y pwnc yn mynd â bryd llawer o Aelodau’r Cynulliad. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r gwaith yr ydych wedi’i wneud, ac yn falch o’r cyfarfod y byddwch yn ei gynnal yn Sioe Frenhinol Cymru yr wythnos nesaf.

2.10 p.m.

A gaf fynd â chi i gyfeiriad ychydig yn wahanol, gan eich bod chi wedi ymdrin â’r mater hwn yn eithaf llawn y prynhawn yma? Byddwch yn ymwybodol o ymgyrch Age Concern Cymru a Help the Aged yng Nghymru i gael Llywodraeth y Cynulliad i sicrhau bod tlodi bwyd yn cael ei wynebu o fewn ei chynlluniau, a hynny er mwyn codi ymwybyddiaeth awdurdodau lleol o dlodi bwyd a’r angen i sicrhau bod yr henoed yn arbennig, gan fod symud yn anoddach iddynt, yn gallu cael mynediad i gynnyrch lleol yn eu cymunedau. A wnewch chi sicrhau bod meini prawf cynllunio yn helpu i ddiogelu hynny?

May I take you in a slightly different direction, given that you have dealt with this matter rather comprehensively this afternoon? You will be aware of the campaign of Age Concern Cymru and Help the Aged in Wales to get the Assembly Government to ensure that food poverty is addressed within its schemes, to raise the awareness of local authorities of food poverty and of the need to ensure that the elderly in particularly, given that mobility is more of an issue for them, can access local produce in their communities. Will you ensure that the planning criteria help to safeguard that?

Elin Jones: Mae cynllunio yn fater i’r Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd, Cynaliadwyedd a Thai. Hi fydd yn ateb cwestiynau nesaf.

O ran mynediad i wasanaethau lleol, mae fy adran wedi comisiynu gwaith ymchwil mewn pedair ardal wledig anghysbell o Gymru i weld pa faterion sy’n poeni’r bobl sy’n byw yno. Yr ydym yn gyfarwydd â thrafod a yw pobl yn gallu cael mynediad i wasanaethau mewn cymunedau gwledig anghysbell, ond efallai na chawsom lawer o drafodaeth am fynediad i fwyd a siopau lleol. Mae’n bosibl y daw’r mater i’r amlwg yn ystod y gwaith ymchwil ar y bedair cymuned wledig anghysbell, a byddaf yn cyflwyno adroddiad am y gwaith hwnnw i’r Cynulliad yn yr hydref.

David Melding: Minister, are you aware that on the third day of the Ashes test match last Friday at Sophia Gardens, they ran out of Brains beer by lunchtime? I am reliably informed that they underestimated demand, and that many Australians, frustrated by the poor nature of their traditional potations, turned en masse to Brains beer. Does that not underline the point that tourists enjoy visiting places where there is a lot of good fresh local produce, and that this needs to be marketed with even greater vigour in the future?

David Melding: Weinidog, a sylweddolwch, ar drydydd diwrnod prawf cyfres y Lludw ddydd Gwener diwethaf yng Ngerddi Soffia, i gwrw Brains ddod i ben erbyn amser cinio?  Yr wyf yn deall o ffynhonnell ddibynadwy iddynt fwrw amcan rhy isel ynghylch lefel y galw, a bod nifer o Awstraliaid, yn eu rhwystredigaeth ag ansawdd eu diod draddodiadol, wedi troi’n un haid at gwrw Brains. Onid yw hynny’n tanlinellu’r pwynt bod twristiaid yn mwynhau ymweld â lleoedd lle ceir digonedd o gynnyrch lleol ffres o safon, a bod angen marchnata hyn hyd yn oed yn fwy egnïol i’r dyfodol?

Elin Jones: All I can say in response to that is that I am pleased that local food and drink companies were able to benefit from the success of the Ashes test match in Cardiff.

Combined Heat and Power Plants

Q1 David Melding: What measures are in place to examine the potential of combined heat and power plants in South Wales Central? OAQ(3)0948(ESH)

C1 David Melding: Pa fesurau sydd ar waith i archwilio potensial gweithfeydd gwres ac ynni cyfun yng Nghanol De Cymru? OAQ(3)0948(ESH)

The Minister for Environment, Sustainability and Housing (Jane Davidson): The Welsh European Funding Office has approved funding of almost £7.7 million for a new wood energy business scheme, which will consider options for combined heat and power as well as heat-only developments. We will also work with the Carbon Trust and other organisations to identify potential sites for combined heat and power plants in Wales.

Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd, Cynaliadwyedd a Thai (Jane Davidson): Mae Swyddfa Cyllid Ewropeaidd Cymru wedi cymeradwyo cyllid o bron i £7.7 miliwn ar gyfer cynllun busnes ynni pren newydd, a fydd yn ystyried opsiynau ar gyfer gwres ac ynni cyfun yn ogystal â datblygiadau gwres yn unig. Byddwn hefyd yn gweithio gyda’r Ymddiriedolaeth Carbon a sefydliadau eraill i ddynodi safleoedd posibl ar gyfer gweithfeydd gwres ac ynni cyfun yng Nghymru.

David Melding: Thank you for that answer, Minister. In many areas of Europe, this type of technology has been used for many years, and I understand that new processes will mean that it has more potential in urban areas such as Cardiff. However, schemes so far seem to be based on incineration plants for waste, and they have attracted quite a lot of local opposition. There is also a question over the type of infrastructure that you need to make use of these more efficient forms of energy generation. Do you not agree that it is worth investigating these schemes, particularly if local residents can be shown that they could consequently benefit from lower utility bills?

David Melding: Diolch ichi am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Mewn sawl rhan o Ewrop, defnyddiwyd y math hwn o dechnoleg ers sawl blwyddyn, ac yr wyf yn deall y bydd prosesau newydd yn golygu bod ganddi fwy o botensial mewn ardaloedd trefol megis Caerdydd. Fodd bynnag, ymddengys fod cynlluniau cyn belled wedi’u seilio ar weithfeydd llosgi ar gyfer gwastraff, ac maent wedi ennyn cryn dipyn o wrthwynebiad lleol. Ceir cwestiwn hefyd ynghylch y math o seilwaith y mae ei angen arnoch i ddefnyddio’r ffurfiau mwy effeithiol hyn o gynhyrchu ynni. Oni chytunwch ei bod yn werth archwilio’r cynlluniau hyn, yn enwedig os gellir dangos i drigolion lleol y gallent elwa yn y pen draw o filiau cyfleustodau is?

Jane Davidson: It is important to say that the Assembly Government has no proposals to use incineration in the context of all household waste. The only proposal in the context of energy from waste relates to the residual waste that cannot be recycled in any other way. Having just returned from Copenhagen last week, I can tell you that, there, they use incineration as the first port of call for all their energy. They consider waste or anything else as different feed stocks, and have combined heat and power plants close to their local communities as has happened across Europe for years.

Jane Davidson: Mae’n bwysig dweud nad oes gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad ddim cynigion i ddefnyddio llosgi yng nghyd-destun pob gwastraff o gartrefi. Mae’r unig gynnig yng nghyd-destun ynni o wastraff yn ymwneud â’r gwastraff gweddilliol na ellir ei ailgylchu mewn unrhyw ffordd arall. Gan fy mod newydd ddychwelyd o Copenhagen yr wythnos diwethaf, gallaf ddweud wrthych eu bod yno, yn defnyddio llosgi fel y cam cyntaf ar gyfer eu holl ynni. Maent yn ystyried gwastraff neu unrhyw beth arall yn stociau bwydo gwahanol, ac mae ganddynt weithfeydd gwres ac ynni cyfun yn agos at eu cymunedau lleol fel a ddigwyddodd ledled Ewrop ers blynyddoedd.

Mae’r agenda hon o bwys addysgol sylweddol, gan fod angen i bobl gael ffydd yn y safonau a bennir gan yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, sy’n hynod o lym. Felly, mae ynni o weithfeydd gwastraff yn lanach na nifer o brosesau diwydiannol eraill.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Question 2, OAQ(3)0924(ESH), is withdrawn.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Tynnwyd cwestiwn 2, OAQ(3)0924(ESH), yn ôl.

Y Diwydiant Cregyn Gleision

C3 Gareth Jones: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am y camau y gall eu cymryd i helpu’r diwydiant cregyn gleision yn aber Afon Conwy i oresgyn rhai problemau dros dro gydag ansawdd y dŵr? OAQ(3)0918(ESH)

Q3 Gareth Jones: Will the Minister make a statement on actions she is able to take to help the Conwy estuary mussel industry to overcome some temporary problems with water quality? OAQ(3)0918(ESH)

Jane Davidson: Mae cynnal a gwella ansawdd dŵr arfordirol yn bwysig. Mae’r aber yn cyrraedd safonau gorfodol y Gyfarwyddeb Dyfroedd Pysgod Cregyn Ewropeaidd. Mae Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd yn monitro crynodiadau o golifformau carthion yn yr aber, ac mae Dŵr Cymru yn gwneud gwelliannau i’r system trin carthion. Mae cymorth ar gael i’r diwydiant drwy gronfa pysgodfeydd Ewrop.

Jane Davidson:  Maintaining and improving coastal water quality is important. The estuary meets mandatory standards under the European Shellfish Water Directive. The Environment Agency monitors faecal coliform concentrations in the estuary and Dŵr Cymru is making improvements to the sewerage system. Support is available to the industry through the European fisheries fund.

Gareth Jones: Yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod yn gwybod fod diwydiant cregyn gleision Conwy yn brwydro yn erbyn y llygredd hwnnw a bod ffynhonnell y llygredd yn ddirgelwch. Mae’r llygredd wedi arwain at israddio’r gwelyau masnachol o B i C gan yr Asiantaeth Safonau Bwyd, gan fyrhau’r tymor cynaeafu. Fel y dywed un gwyddonydd blaenllaw, mae bygythiad go iawn i fywoliaeth pobl ar foryd Conwy, gan fod dosbarthiad gradd C i’r gwelyau yn golygu nad yw eu cynaeafu yn gwneud synnwyr economaidd. Ymddengys mai’r broblem fwyaf yw’r diffyg gwybodaeth am yr hyn sy’n achosi’r llygredd. Hyd nes y byddwn yn gwybod hynny, ni fydd yn bosibl gwneud dim i ddatrys y broblem. Beth y gallwch ei wneud i gynorthwyo’r ymdrechion i ddod o hyd i ateb i’r broblem hon?

Jane Davidson: This is not the only part of Wales in which we are seeing issues that are difficult to resolve in the context of the relationship between shellfish and water quality. We also have an issue with cockles in the Bury inlet. The Environment Agency began a programme of monitoring at the Conwy estuary last autumn to measure the variation in faecal coliform concentration, and it is working with a range of partners in an attempt to discover the cause of increased bacteria levels in the mussels. Alongside that, Dŵr Cymru is making improvements to the sewerage system in the Conwy and Llandudno catchments. It is due to complete its £1.5 million-worth of work by April next year. That investment is funded on four sites. We have funded a Wales-wide bathing waters and diffuse pollution project that aims to identify and reduce faecal indicator organisms entering water bodies from diffuse sources. The Environment Agency is leading on that. It is also investigating the relationship between the levels of faecal coliforms in the water column and the levels of shellfish flesh throughout Wales. The scientists tell me that the difficulty is that there is not always a direct link between water quality and faecal coliform levels in shellfish flesh.

Jane Davidson: Nid dyma’r unig ran o Gymru lle gwelwn broblemau anodd eu datrys yng nghyd-destun y berthynas rhwng pysgod cregyn ac ansawdd dŵr. Mae gennym hefyd broblem â chocos yng nghilfach Porth Tywyn. Dechreuodd Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd raglen fonitro ym moryd Conwy hydref diwethaf i fesur yr amrywiad mewn crynodiad colifform ymgarthol, ac mae’n gweithio gydag amrywiaeth o bartneriaid i geisio canfod yr hyn sy’n achosi’r lefelau uwch o facteria yn y cregyn gleision. Ochr yn ochr â hynny, mae Dŵr Cymru yn gwella’r system carthffosiaeth yn nalgylchoedd Conwy a Llandudno. Disgwylir iddo gwblhau gwerth £1.5 miliwn o waith erbyn mis Ebrill flwyddyn nesaf. Cyllidir y buddsoddiad hwnnw ar bedwar safle. Yr ydym wedi cyllido prosiect dyfroedd ymdrochi a llygredd gwasgaredig dros Gymru gyfan sy’n ceisio canfod a lleihau nifer yr organebau sy’n dangos bod carthion yn mynd i gyrff dŵr o ffynonellau gwasgaredig. Mae Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd wedi cymryd yr awenau gyda hynny. Mae hefyd yn ymchwilio i’r berthynas rhwng lefelau’r colifform ymgarthol yng ngholofn y dŵr a lefelau cnawd pysgod cregyn ledled Cymru. Dywed y gwyddonwyr wrthyf mai’r anhawster yw nad oes cysylltiad uniongyrchol bob tro rhwng ansawdd dŵr a lefelau colifform ymgarthol mewn cnawd pysgod cregyn.

Fuel Poverty

Q4 Mick Bates: Will the Minister give an update on progress towards reaching Welsh Assembly Government targets on fuel poverty? OAQ(3)0911(ESH)

C4 Mick Bates: A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y cynnydd tuag at gyrraedd targedau Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ar dlodi tanwydd? OAQ(3)0911(ESH)

Jane Davidson: The significant increase in energy prices in recent years has led to an increase in the number of fuel-poor households in Wales. We remain committed to working towards the eradication of fuel poverty and we will publish a revised fuel poverty strategy for consultation later in the autumn. I have just published my statement indicating how the fuel poverty strategy will fit into that.

Jane Davidson: Mae’r cynnydd sylweddol mewn prisiau ynni dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf wedi arwain at gynnydd y nifer yr aelwydydd sy’n dlawd o ran tanwydd yng Nghymru. Yr ydym yn dal yn ymrwymedig i weithio at ddileu tlodi tanwydd a byddwn yn cyhoeddi strategaeth tlodi tanwydd ddiwygiedig ar gyfer ymgynghoriad yn nes ymlaen yn yr hydref. Yr wyf newydd gyhoeddi fy natganiad yn dangos sut y bydd y strategaeth tlodi tanwydd yn plethu â hynny.

Mick Bates: Thank you for that, Minister, and also for your written statement today. We look forward to the publication of the national energy efficiency and savings plan later this year. I hope that it will contain sound proposals to tackle fuel poverty, because National Energy Action Cymru estimates that 320,000 Welsh households are still living in fuel poverty and—I find this staggering—that 50,547 households were in debt to their energy suppliers at the end of 2008. Cross-departmental co-operation is crucial if you are to make progress in reducing the number of people who live in fuel poverty. Can you outline how you are working with suppliers and the Minister for Social Justice and Local Government to help ensure that, as part of the Welsh Assembly Government’s financial inclusion strategy and its national energy efficiency strategy, fuel debt and payment methods are addressed, so that they can help some of those 50,000 people?

Mick Bates: Diolch ichi am hynny, Weinidog, ac am eich datganiad ysgrifenedig heddiw. Yr ydym yn edrych ymlaen at gyhoeddi’r cynllun cenedlaethol ar gyfer effeithlonrwydd ac arbedion ynni yn nes ymlaen eleni. Yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd yn cynnwys cynigion cadarn i fynd i’r afael â thlodi tanwydd, oherwydd bod National Energy Action Cymru yn amcangyfrif bod 320,000 o aelwydydd Cymru yn dal yn byw mewn tlodi tanwydd ac—mae hyn yn fy syfrdanu—bod 50,547 o aelwydydd mewn dyled i’w cyflenwyr ynni ar ddiwedd 2008. Mae cydweithredu ar draws adrannau yn hanfodol os ydych am symud ymlaen o ran lleihau nifer y bobl sy’n byw mewn tlodi tanwydd. A allwch amlinellu sut yr ydych yn gweithio gyda chyflenwyr a’r Gweinidog dros Gyfiawnder Cymdeithasol a Llywodraeth Leol i helpu i sicrhau, fel rhan o strategaeth cynhwysiant ariannol Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru a’i strategaeth effeithlonrwydd ynni genedlaethol, y rhoddir sylw i ddyledion tanwydd a dulliau talu, er mwyn iddynt allu helpu rhai o’r 50,000 o bobl?

2.20 p.m.

Jane Davidson: We indicated that the final national energy efficiency and savings plan will be published later this year. It will sit as a separate document within the energy strategy. However, I am determined to bring the proposals that focus on fuel poverty together in an updated and separate fuel poverty strategy. Our targets and objectives remain as set out in the current strategy, but we will be consulting on the measures to help to achieve them, building on the proposals that were outlined in the national energy efficiency and savings plan consultation. That distinction has been warmly welcomed by people outside the Assembly Government.

Jane Davidson: Yr ydym wedi dweud y bydd y cynllun cenedlaethol terfynol ar gyfer effeithlonrwydd ac arbedion ynni yn cael ei gyhoeddi yn nes ymlaen eleni. Bydd yn ddogfen ar wahân o fewn y strategaeth ynni. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn benderfynol fy mod am ddod â’r cynigion sy’n canolbwyntio ar dlodi tanwydd ynghyd mewn strategaeth ar wahân ac wedi’i diweddaru ar dlodi tanwydd. Mae ein targedau a’n hamcanion yr un fath â’r rheini a osodwyd allan yn y strategaeth bresennol, ond byddwn yn ymgynghori ar y mesurau i helpu i’w cyflawni, gan adeiladu ar y cynigion a amlinellwyd yn ymgynghoriad y cynllun cenedlaethol ar gyfer effeithlonrwydd ac arbedion ynni. Mae pobl y tu allan i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi croesawu’r gwahaniaeth hwnnw’n gynnes.

In the context of other departments, what the Assembly Government is looking for is a clear focus on poverty. As you know, we have done a lot of work in looking at child poverty issues in particular. Therefore, issues around what we still call utility debts, whether they are energy, communications or water, are all crucial in relation to the social inclusion strategy. I am working with the water and energy companies, both individually and collectively, to ensure that those customers who are eligible for a social tariff have access to a social tariff, and that the additional funding through the carbon emissions reduction target for the energy companies can be brought to bear in support of our policy objectives.

Yng nghyd-destun adrannau eraill, mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn chwilio am ffocws clir ar dlodi. Fel y gwyddoch, yr ydym wedi gwneud llawer o waith o ran edrych ar faterion sy’n ymwneud â thlodi plant yn benodol. Felly, mae materion sy’n ymwneud â’r hyn a alwn o hyd yn ddyledion cyfleustodau, boed hwy ar gyfer ynni, cyfathrebu neu ddŵr, i gyd yn hollbwysig o ran y strategaeth cynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Yr wyf yn gweithio gyda’r cwmnïau dŵr ac ynni, yn unigol a gyda’i gilydd, i sicrhau bod y cwsmeriaid hynny sy’n gymwys i gael tariff cymdeithasol yn cael tariff cymdeithasol, a bod modd defnyddio’r cyllid ychwanegol drwy’r targed lleihau allyriadau carbon ar gyfer y cwmnïau ynni i gefnogi ein hamcanion polisi.

Mick Bates: Thank you for that detailed answer, Minister. Helping people out of fuel poverty also means improving home energy efficiency. For £150, you can save about 1 kg of carbon emissions per year, which is pretty good progress. However, in order to make real progress on tackling fuel poverty, we have to build houses to the right standard, so that they do not leak energy, for which people are paying. Crucial to that is getting building regulations under the power of the Assembly. You have told me many times that it is imminent. When is that? When can we see building regulations devolved to the Assembly?

Mick Bates: Diolch ichi am yr ateb manwl hwnnw, Weinidog. Mae helpu pobl allan o dlodi tanwydd hefyd yn golygu gwella effeithlonrwydd ynni cartrefi. Am £150, gallwch arbed oddeutu 1 kg o allyriadau carbon y flwyddyn, sy’n gynnydd gweddol dda. Fodd bynnag, er mwyn symud ymlaen o ddifrif i fynd i’r afael â thlodi tanwydd, rhaid inni adeiladu tai i’r safon iawn, er mwyn sicrhau nad ydynt yn gollwng ynni, y mae pobl yn talu amdano. Wrth galon hyn rhaid sicrhau bod rheoliadau adeiladu yn dod dan bŵer y Cynulliad. Yr ydych wedi dweud wrthyf droeon bod hynny ar fin digwydd. Pryd bydd hynny? Pryd gallwn weld rheoliadau adeiladu’n cael eu datganoli i’r Cynulliad?

Jane Davidson: We hope that they will be laid very shortly, but that, of course, is a matter for another place. They have been imminent, for us and for our fellow Ministers in the UK Government, for many months, while the lawyers have tweaked the end of the process.

Bethan Jenkins: In 2007, you promised to review the fuel poverty strategy as part of the national energy efficiency and savings plan, the draft of which has now been published. At a recent cross-party group meeting on fuel poverty, Consumer Focus Wales, NEA Cymru and other organisations raised concerns about the proposals outlined in the plan and the extent to which this is a review of the Assembly Government’s commitment to fuel poverty. Will you confirm that you will reconsider your approach in this area, and that stakeholders will have a chance to comment on a re-drafted strategy for fuel poverty?

Bethan Jenkins: Yn 2007, yr oeddech wedi addo adolygu’r strategaeth tlodi tanwydd fel rhan o’r cynllun cenedlaethol ar gyfer effeithlonrwydd ac arbedion ynni, y mae drafft ohono bellach wedi cael ei gyhoeddi. Mewn cyfarfod trawsbleidiol diweddar ar dlodi tanwydd, yr oedd Llais Defnyddwyr Cymru, NEA Cymru a sefydliadau eraill wedi codi pryderon ynghylch y cynigion a amlinellwyd yn y cynllun a’r graddau y mae hwn yn adolygiad o ymrwymiad Llywodraeth y Cynulliad i dlodi tanwydd. A wnewch gadarnhau y byddwch yn ailystyried eich dull gweithredu yn y maes hwn, ac y bydd rhanddeiliaid yn cael cyfle i gyflwyno sylwadau ar strategaeth a fydd wedi’i hail ddrafftio ar gyfer tlodi tanwydd?

Jane Davidson: I have already confirmed that in my answer to Mick.

The Leader of the Opposition (Nick Bourne): In 2003, the Government set itself a commitment to eradicate fuel poverty among the most vulnerable households by 2010. As I understand it, the Minister has reconfirmed that target in answer to Mick Bates’s second question today. In 2004, the number of people living in fuel poverty was 134,000 households, but the figure is now 320,000 households. Given that, and accepting what the Minister has said about upward pressure on energy prices—although that has not happened suddenly; it has happened over a period of time—is that target not totally unrealistic, unless masses of resources are pumped in, particularly given that upward pressures, if anything, are accentuating and increasing?

Jane Davidson: To be precise, we said that we would eradicate fuel poverty as far as is reasonably practicable in vulnerable households by 2010. Last year, I think, I said that, in light of increasing energy prices, we would not be able to meet that target. However, what we must do, and what we will continue to do, is to eradicate it as far as possible. Therefore, we will do everything that is reasonably practicable in tackling fuel poverty by 2010, and also in relation to our commitment in social housing by 2012, and in all households by 2018. We are investing a lot of time and effort in addressing this agenda on the national energy efficiency and savings plan, on looking at the fuel poverty strategy and on looking at our energy strategy more widely, as well as on our climate change commitments.

Jane Davidson: I fod yn fanwl gywir, dywedasom y byddem yn dileu tlodi tanwydd i’r graddau sy’n rhesymol ymarferol mewn aelwydydd sy’n d i niwed erbyn 2010. Y llynedd, mi gredaf, dywedais, o ystyried y cynnydd mewn prisiau ynni, na fyddem yn gallu cyrraedd y targed hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, yr hyn y mae’n rhaid inni ei wneud, a’r hyn y byddwn yn parhau i’w wneud, yw ei ddileu cymaint ag y bo modd. Felly, byddwn yn gwneud popeth sy’n rhesymol ymarferol i fynd i’r afael â thlodi tanwydd erbyn 2010, a hefyd yng nghyswllt ein hymrwymiad i dai cymdeithasol erbyn 2012, ac i bob aelwyd erbyn 2018. Yr ydym yn buddsoddi llawer o amser ac ymdrech i roi sylw i’r agenda hon ar y cynllun cenedlaethol ar gyfer effeithlonrwydd ac arbedion ynni, i edrych ar y strategaeth tlodi tanwydd ac i edrych ar ein strategaeth ynni’n ehangach, yn ogystal â’n hymrwymiadau newid yn yr hinsawdd.

Biodiversity Partnership

Partneriaeth Bioamrywiaeth

Q5 Nick Ramsay: What recent discussions has the Minister had with the Monmouthshire biodiversity partnership? OAQ(3)0930(ESH)

C5 Nick Ramsay: Pa drafodaethau’n ddiweddar y mae’r Gweinidog wedi’u cael gyda Phartneriaeth Bioamrywiaeth Sir Fynwy? OAQ(3)0930(ESH)

Jane Davidson: I held three regional biodiversity duty workshops with local authority councillors and senior officials during 2008-09, which included representatives from Monmouthshire biodiversity partnership. The Wales biodiversity partnership and the Countryside Council for Wales also held meetings with all the local authority biodiversity champions during that year on related issues.

Jane Davidson: Cynhaliais dri gweithdy dyletswydd bioamrywiaeth rhanbarthol gyda chynghorwyr ac uwch swyddogion awdurdodau lleol yn ystod 2008-09, a oedd yn cynnwys cynrychiolwyr o bartneriaeth bioamrywiaeth Sir Fynwy. Yr oedd partneriaeth bioamrywiaeth Cymru a Chyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru hefyd wedi cael cyfarfodydd gyda holl hyrwyddwyr bioamrywiaeth awdurdodau lleol yn ystod y flwyddyn honno ynghylch materion cysylltiedig.

Nick Ramsay: Minister, I am sure that you are aware that the partnership was formed in 2005 amid concerns over the construction for the widening of the Heads of the Valleys road, and because of threats to the bat and great crested newt populations. Can you give us an assurance that you will continue to support the partnership’s invaluable work, which is continuing even though the work there has been completed, and that your Government recognises that, while biodiversity is indeed an important issue when roads and transport links are being constructed and augmented, biodiversity issues should be monitored after that initial construction phase?

Jane Davidson: Yes; in fact, section 40 of the Natural Environment and Rural Communities Act 2006 places a duty on all public bodies to have due regard to the purpose of conserving biodiversity. In Wales, we give support to local authorities through the Wales biodiversity partnership. We will continue to take steps to ensure the integration of the legislation into aspects of all public-sector spending, under our sustainability duty.

Jane Davidson: Gallaf; a dweud y gwir, mae adran 40 Deddf yr Amgylchedd Naturiol a Chymunedau Gwledig 2006 yn gosod dyletswydd ar bob corff cyhoeddus i ystyried diben gwarchod bioamrywiaeth. Yng Nghymru, yr ydym yn cefnogi awdurdodau lleol drwy bartneriaeth bioamrywiaeth Cymru. Byddwn yn parhau i gymryd camau i sicrhau bod y ddeddfwriaeth yn cael ei hintegreiddio mewn agweddau ar holl wariant y sector cyhoeddus, dan ein dyletswydd cynaliadwyedd.

Mohammad Asghar: I am pleased to note the broad membership of the Monmouthshire biodiversity partnership, which includes 32 organisations, including the National Assembly. Will the Minister join me in congratulating the partnership, and other such partnerships in Wales, on the work that they are doing? Could she give me an update on progress on setting up local wildlife sites in the county?

Jane Davidson: All local authorities are encouraged, through the local biodiversity action plan process, to establish local wildlife sites. Monmouthshire has designated four river sites as being of importance for nature conservation, and is currently working towards designating areas of ancient semi-natural woodland and plantations on ancient woodland sites as part of the ancient woodland inventory. There are also numerous small blocks of woodland of under 5 ha that do not feature on the inventory, but part of the work is to liaise with landowners to ensure that those sites are well managed. A new habitat action plan for the coastal and flood plain grazing marsh is being put together by the local authorities in Cardiff, Newport and Monmouthshire. The final point on this, at the moment, is that the Gwent Wildlife Trust’s grassland initiative has designated 266 grassland wildlife sites as sites of importance for nature conservation in areas that also include marshland.

Jane Davidson: Drwy broses y cynllun gweithredu bioamrywiaeth lleol, caiff pob awdurdod lleol ei annog i sefydlu safleoedd bywyd gwyllt lleol. Mae Sir Fynwy wedi dynodi bod pedwar safle afon o bwys ar gyfer cadwraeth natur, ac ar hyn o bryd mae’n gweithio at nodi ardaloedd o goetiroedd a phlanhigfeydd lled naturiol ar safleoedd coetir hynafol fel rhan o’r rhestr o goetiroedd hynafol. Mae yna hefyd nifer o flociau bach o goetir llai na 5 hectar na chânt eu cynnwys ar y rhestr, ond cysylltu â thirfeddianwyr yw rhan o’r gwaith er mwyn sicrhau i’r safleoedd hynny’n cael eu rheoli’n dda. Mae awdurdodau lleol yng Nghaerdydd, Casnewydd a Sir Fynwy yn llunio cynllun gweithredu cynefinoedd newydd ar gyfer y gors bori ar y gorlifdir a’r arfordir. Y pwynt olaf ynghylch hyn, ar hyn o bryd, yw bod cynllun glaswelltir Ymddiriedolaeth Bywyd Gwyllt Gwent wedi nodi 266 o safleoedd bywyd gwyllt glaswelltir fel safleoedd o bwys ar gyfer cadwraeth natur mewn ardaloedd sydd hefyd yn cynnwys corstir.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Question 6, OAQ(3)0941(ESH), is withdrawn.

Flood Prevention

Q7 Alun Cairns: Will the Minister provide an update on her policies regarding flood prevention in Wales? OAQ(3)0939(ESH)

C7 Alun Cairns: A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am ei pholisïau ar atal llifogydd yng Nghymru? OAQ(3)0939(ESH)

Jane Davidson: The Welsh Assembly Government is committed to addressing and managing all forms of flood risk across Wales. I recently updated Members on current arrangements in my written statement of 10 July 2009.

Jane Davidson: Mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru wedi ymrwymo i roi sylw i bob math o berygl llifogydd a’u rheoli ledled Cymru. Rhoddais yr wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i Aelodau’n ddiweddar am y trefniadau presennol yn fy natganiad ysgrifenedig ar 10 Gorffennaf  2009.

Alun Cairns: European money has been made available to west Wales and the Valleys, and areas there will benefit from that. What additional money has been made available to those low-lying areas that are not located in west Wales and the Valleys? What criteria will the Minister be using, and what advice will be sought from the Environment Agency, on how those communities should be lobbying? Should they lobby local authorities, or should they go directly to the Minister, to the Environment Agency or to another agency?

Alun Cairns: Mae arian Ewropeaidd wedi ei ddarparu ar gyfer gorllewin Cymru a’r Cymoedd, a bydd ardaloedd yno’n elwa o hynny. Pa arian ychwanegol sydd wedi ei ddarparu ar gyfer yr ardaloedd isel hynny nad ydynt yn y Gorllewin na’r Cymoedd? Pa feini prawf y bydd y Gweinidog yn eu defnyddio, a pha gyngor a geisir gan Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd ar y ffordd y dylai’r cymunedau hynny fod yn lobïo? A ddylent lobïo awdurdodau lleol, ynteu a ddylent fynd yn syth at y Gweinidog, at Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd neu at asiantaeth arall?

Jane Davidson: The Environment Agency is developing a long-term investment strategy for Wales at my request, which will provide greater certainty and visibility in respect of our approach to investment, and which will also help us to plan an effective response to the likely impact of climate change. It is important to say that this is not an issue of political lobbying; this is about where the need is best identified, and I know that you would strongly support that. We are pleased that we have managed to secure the extra £30 million of European convergence funding, which enables us to use our funding more appropriately in other parts of Wales. We have confirmed funding for the first 12 schemes to benefit from the new money, which include some very high risk areas, such as Towyn, Conwy and Borth.

Jane Davidson: Mae Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd yn datblygu strategaeth fuddsoddi tymor hir ar gyfer Cymru ar fy nghais, a fydd yn rhoi mwy o sicrwydd ac amlygrwydd o ran ein dull gweithredu yng nghyswllt buddsoddi, ac a fydd hefyd yn ein helpu i gynllunio ymateb effeithiol i effaith debygol newid yn yr hinsawdd. Mae’n bwysig dweud nad yw hyn yn fater o lobïo gwleidyddol; mae hyn yn ymwneud â lle caiff yr angen ei ganfod orau, a gwn y byddech yn cytuno’n gryf â hynny. Yr ydym yn falch ein bod wedi gallu sicrhau £30 miliwn ychwanegol o gyllid cydgyfeirio Ewropeaidd, sy’n ein galluogi i ddefnyddio ein cyllid yn fwy priodol mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru. Yr ydym wedi cadarnhau’r cyllid ar gyfer y 12 cynllun cyntaf i elwa o’r arian newydd, sy’n cynnwys rhai ardaloedd mewn perygl garw, megis Tywyn, Conwy a Borth.

2.30 p.m.

Joyce Watson: As the Minister will be aware, much of the current planning system relating to the take-up of in the form of guidance and not set in law. I have evidence from the Environment Agency that worryingly shows that a number of councils throughout Wales have ignored its advice and objections, either by doubting it or by not providing reasons for overruling it. What assurances can the Assembly Government give that any amendments to the current system will look at this issue? Does the Minister agree that the current system should be strengthened so that local authorities and developers cannot ignore SUDS issues against the advice of organisations such as the Environment Agency?

Joyce Watson: Fel y gŵyr y Gweinidog, mae llawer o’r system gynllunio bresennol sy’n ymwneud â defnyddio mesurau system traenio cynaliadwy ar ffurf canllawiau a heb eu pennu’n gyfreithiol. Yr wyf wedi cael tystiolaeth sy’n achosi pryder gan Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd sy’n dangos bod nifer o gynghorau ledled Cymru wedi anwybyddu ei chyngor a’i gwrthwynebiadau, un ai drwy ei amau neu drwy beidio â rhoi rhesymau dros ei ddiystyru. Pa sicrwydd y gall Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ei roi y bydd unrhyw newidiadau yn y system bresennol yn ystyriol o’r mater hwn? A yw’r Gweinidog yn derbyn y dylid cryfhau’r system bresennol fel na all awdurdodau lleol a datblygwyr anwybyddu materion sy’n ymwneud ag SDCau yn groes i’r cyngor gan gyrff fel Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd?

Jane Davidson: Thank you, Joyce. You have raised some very important issues in the context of sustainable urban drainage systems over the past few months, and I welcome very much the research that you have done on this. The flood and water management Bill gives us opportunities to tackle the SUDS issues by changing relationships and setting up a new sustainable urban drainage authority. If you have evidence that authorities are currently ignoring Environment Agency advice on these issues, I would be very happy to have a look at that, because the Environment Agency provides us with expert advice on these matters—although the flood and water management Bill sets out an increased role for local authorities in the context of sustainable urban drainage systems.

Jane Davidson: Diolch, Joyce. Yr ydych wedi codi rhai materion pwysig iawn yng nghyd-destun systemau traenio trefol cynaliadwy dros y misoedd diwethaf, ac yr wyf yn croesawu’n fawr yr ymchwil yr ydych wedi’i wneud ar hyn. Mae’r Mesur rheoli llifogydd a dŵr yn rhoi cyfleoedd inni ddelio â’r materion sy’n ymwneud ag SDCau drwy newid cydberthnasoedd a sefydlu awdurdod draenio trefol cynaliadwy newydd. Os oes gennych dystiolaeth bod awdurdodau’n anwybyddu cyngor gan Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd ar y materion hyn ar hyn o bryd, byddwn yn fodlon iawn edrych ar honno, gan fod Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd yn rhoi cyngor arbenigol inni ar y materion hyn—er bod y Mesur rheoli llifogydd a dŵr yn pennu rôl ehangach i awdurdodau lleol yng nghyd-destun systemau draenio trefol cynaliadwy.

Eleanor Burnham: Minister, what are you and your Government doing to improve the co-ordination of responses to residents in my North Wales region, who are still suffering when it comes to flooding? Many people are not quite sure what they should do or to whom they should go for advice. Please can you give us an update?

Eleanor Burnham: Weinidog, beth yr ydych chi a’ch Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i wella cydgysylltu ymatebion i breswylwyr yn fy rhanbarth i, sef Gogledd Cymru, sy’n dal i ddioddef pan geir llifogydd? Mae llawer o bobl nad ydynt yn hollol sicr beth y dylent ei wneud neu at bwy y dylent droi i gael cyngor. A allwch roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni, os gwelwch yn dda?

Jane Davidson: Thank you for that important question. One of the reasons for the flood and water management Bill—and the intention is that it will be introduced in the autumn—is to clarify roles and responsibilities. Sir Michael Pitt, when he undertook his review of the flooding that happened in England in 2007, saw very clearly that roles and responsibilities were confused. We, along with our colleagues in Defra, accepted fully the recommendations about clarification. The flood and water management Bill will provide that clarification. One option at a local level is for local authorities to be responsible for handling all queries on flooding events in their areas and for co-ordinating the response from the relevant authorities so that members of the public need contact only the local authority to get a detailed explanation of the situation. I talk about that in the statement that I released earlier this week. We are consulting on a proposal as part of the draft flood and water management Bill. You may want to give your views on that.

Jane Davidson: Diolch ichi am y cwestiwn pwysig hwnnw. Un o’r rhesymau dros gael y Mesur rheoli llifogydd a dŵr—y bwriedir ei gyflwyno yn yr hydref—yw egluro rolau a chyfrifoldebau. Gwelodd Syr Michael Pitt yn glir iawn, pan ymgymerodd â’i adolygiad o’r llifogydd a ddigwyddodd yn Lloegr yn 2007, fod dryswch ynghylch rolau a chyfrifoldebau. Gwnaethom ni, ynghyd â’n cymheiriaid yn Defra, dderbyn yn llwyr yr argymhellion ynghylch egluro. Bydd y Mesur rheoli llifogydd a dŵr yn rhoi eglurhad o’r fath. Un opsiwn ar lefel leol yw i awdurdodau lleol fod yn gyfrifol am ddelio â’r holl ymholiadau ynghylch llifogydd yn eu hardaloedd ac am gydgysylltu’r ymateb gan yr awdurdodau perthnasol fel na fydd ond angen i aelodau o’r cyhoedd gysylltu â’r awdurdod lleol i gael esboniad manwl o’r sefyllfa. Yr wyf yn sôn am hynny yn y datganiad a gyhoeddais yn gynharach yr wythnos hon. Yr ydym yn ymgynghori ar gynnig fel rhan o’r Mesur rheoli llifogydd a dŵr drafft. Efallai y byddwch am roi eich barn am hynny.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Weinidog, yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Cynaliadwyedd y bore yma, wrth sôn am ddatblygiadau newydd, dywedodd Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd mae ei fwriad oedd sicrhau nad oedd mwy o straen yn cael ei roi ar systemau lleol o ran dŵr ar wyneb y ddaear a charthffosiaeth wedi unrhyw ddatblygiad o’i gymharu â’r sefyllfa pan oedd y tir yn safle gwyrdd. O ystyried yr hyn sy’n digwydd gyda newid yn yr hinsawdd, oni ddylem fod yn edrych ar ddatblygiadau newydd fel cyfle i gryfhau systemau lleol ac i sicrhau bod yr effaith hyd yn oed yn llai nag yn wreiddiol, drwy sicrhau bod datblygwyr yn rhoi systemau ar waith a fydd yn cynorthwyo cymunedau lleol ac yn atal unrhyw berygl llifogydd?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Minister, in this morning’s Sustainability Committee meeting, when talking about new developments, the Environment Agency said that its intention was to ensure that no greater strain would be put on local systems with regard to dealing with surface water and sewage after any development as compared with the position when a site was a green site. Given what is happening with climate change, do you agree that we should look at new developments as opportunities to strengthen local systems and to ensure that the impact is even smaller than it was originally by ensuring that developers put systems in place that will assist local communities and stop any threat of flooding?

Jane Davidson: Yes, I think that we are all making sure that the guidance on flooding, and the evidence on flooding, is fairly rapidly updated. I will shortly be publishing updated development advice maps to replace those that already form part of TAN 15. Those updated maps will ensure that the planning of new development is informed by our latest understanding of the river and coastal flood risks facing our communities. We have an integrated surface water management group, and, as I said in response to Joyce, the new flood and water management Bill will change the arrangements relating to connections through SUDS.

Jane Davidson: Ydwyf, yr wyf yn credu bod pob un ohonom yn sicrhau bod yr arweiniad ar lifogydd, a’r dystiolaeth ar lifogydd, yn cael ei ddiweddaru’n eithaf cyflym. Cyn hir byddaf yn cyhoeddi mapiau cyngor datblygu wedi eu diweddaru i ddisodli’r rheini sydd eisoes yn rhan o TAN 15. Bydd y mapiau hynny wedi eu diweddaru’n sicrhau bod cynllunio ar gyfer datblygu newydd wedi ei seilio ar y ddealltwriaeth ddiweddaraf sydd gennym o’r peryglon i’n cymunedau o lifogydd o afonydd ac ar arfordiroedd. Mae gennym grŵp rheoli dŵr wyneb integredig, ac, fel y dywedais wrth ymateb i Joyce, bydd y Mesur rheoli llifogydd a dŵr newydd yn newid y trefniadau sy’n ymwneud â chysylltiadau drwy SDCau.

Choice-Based Letting Scheme

Q8 Huw Lewis: Will the Minister make a statement on the Welsh Assembly Government choice-based letting scheme? OAQ(3)0932(ESH)

C8 Huw Lewis: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gynllun gosod sy’n seiliedig ar ddewis Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru? OAQ(3)0932(ESH)

The Deputy Minister for Housing (Jocelyn Davies): The Welsh Assembly Government does not require a choice-based lettings scheme. Local authorities and housing associations are responsible for their own allocation schemes. We have issued guidance regarding the need for balancing the needs and the preferences of applicants and we will review this guidance in taking forward our national housing strategy.

Y Dirprwy Weinidog dros Dai (Jocelyn Davies): Nid yw Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn mynnu cael cynllun gosod sy’n seiliedig ar ddewis. Mae awdurdodau lleol a chymdeithasau tai’n gyfrifol am eu cynlluniau dyrannu eu hunain. Yr ydym wedi rhoi canllawiau ynghylch yr angen am gydbwyso anghenion a dewisiadau ymgeiswyr a byddwn yn adolygu’r canllawiau hyn wrth hyrwyddo ein strategaeth dai genedlaethol.

Huw Lewis: As you will be aware, the choice-based letting scheme in Merthyr Tydfil operates by allocating tenants to three main bands—gold, silver and bronze—but a number of cases have been brought to my attention where applicants have, due to personal circumstances, been moved from one band to another. This then results in a change of registration date. Effectively, it moves them to the back of the queue when they bid for properties again. The system seems unfair in this regard as it fails to take account of applicants’ needs and penalises them in the process. What action will the Assembly Government take to redress this imbalance to ensure that such a choice-based letting scheme offers a real choice to all of the applicants on the list?

Huw Lewis: Fel y gwyddoch, mae’r cynllun gosod sy’n seiliedig ar ddewis ym Merthyr Tudful yn gweithio drwy ddyrannu tenantiaid i dri phrif fand—aur, arian ac efydd—ond mae nifer o achosion wedi eu dwyn i’m sylw lle mae ymgeiswyr, oherwydd amgylchiadau personol, wedi eu symud o un band i un arall. Mae hyn yn arwain wedyn at newid y dyddiad cofrestru. I bob pwrpas, mae’n eu symud yn ôl i gefn y ciw pan fyddant ym ymgeisio am dai eto. Mae’n ymddangos bod y system yn annheg yn hyn o beth gan ei bod yn methu ystyried anghenion ymgeiswyr ac yn eu cosbi wrth wneud hynny. Pa gamau y bydd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn eu cymryd i unioni’r anghydbwysedd hwn i sicrhau bod cynllun gosod o’r fath sy’n seiliedig ar ddewis yn cynnig dewis gwirioneddol i’r holl ymgeiswyr ar y rhestr?

Jocelyn Davies: You wrote to me quite recently, Huw, about a specific case in Merthyr Tydfil. Most of these choice-based letting schemes take account of need through the banding system; therefore it is important that applicants get into the right band when they first apply. In this case, because someone has moved a band—although they have gone up a band—the date of the move is considered to be their registration date in that band. I am told that the housing association intends to review this scheme soon, and I am sure that it would be keen to take your views into account. The point of the choice-based letting scheme is to give people more choice and to be transparent.

Jocelyn Davies: Ysgrifenasoch ataf yn eithaf diweddar, Huw, ynghylch achos penodol ym Merthyr Tudful. Mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r cynlluniau gosod hyn sy’n seiliedig ar ddewis yn ystyried angen drwy’r system fandio; felly mae’n bwysig bod ymgeiswyr yn cael lle yn y band cywir pan fyddant yn ymgeisio’n gyntaf. Yn yr achos hwn, gan fod rhywun wedi symud rhwng bandiau—er ei fod wedi mynd i fand uwch—ystyrir mai dyddiad y symud yw dyddiad ei gofrestru yn y band hwnnw. Dywedwyd wrthyf fod y gymdeithas dai’n bwriadu adolygu’r cynllun hwn cyn hir, ac yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai’n awyddus i ystyried eich barn. Diben y cynllun gosod sy’n seiliedig ar ddewis yw rhoi mwy o ddewis i bobl a bod yn dryloyw.

Jonathan Morgan: In the second term of the Assembly the Welsh Assembly Government commissioned a review of the choice-based letting scheme. The review points out that a key feature of the scheme is the improvement of the quality of information given to applicants, thereby increasing their ability to make informed choices. Since you have become Deputy Minister for Housing, have you reviewed the scheme yourself, and if so, what do you think are its main weaknesses and advantages?

Jonathan Morgan: Yn ail dymor y Cynulliad comisiynodd Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru adolygiad o’r cynllun gosod sy’n seiliedig ar ddewis. Mae’r adolygiad yn nodi mai un o nodweddion allweddol y cynllun yw’r gwelliant yn ansawdd yr wybodaeth a roddir i ymgeiswyr, fel eu bod mewn lle gwell i ddewis ar sail gwybodaeth. Ers ichi ddod yn Ddirprwy Weinidog dros Dai, a ydych wedi adolygu’r cynllun eich hun, ac os ydych, beth yw ei brif wendidau a manteision, yn eich barn chi?

Jocelyn Davies: As I have said to Huw, we allow housing associations and local authorities to have a choice-based letting scheme if they so wish. We have issued guidance on that, although it is not detailed guidance because we think that these matters are best decided locally, taking local circumstances into consideration. You are quite right; there was a review which shows that there is a plethora of schemes based on those principles. I have not had many complaints from Assembly Members or anyone else in relation to the scheme, although I understand that it has not worked in all areas. It certainly would be something that I would be happy to look at again if you have evidence that you would like to bring to me.

Jocelyn Davies: Fel yr wyf wedi dweud wrth Huw, yr ydym yn caniatáu i gymdeithasau tai ac awdurdodau lleol fod â chynllun gosod sy’n seiliedig ar ddewis os ydynt yn dymuno hynny. Yr ydym wedi cyhoeddi canllawiau ar hynny, er nad ydynt yn ganllawiau manwl gan ein bod yn credu mai gwell yw penderfynu ar y materion hyn yn lleol, gan ystyried amgylchiadau lleol. Yr ydych yn llygad eich lle; yr oedd adolygiad sy’n dangos bod gormodedd o gynlluniau sy’n seiliedig ar yr egwyddorion hynny. Nid wyf wedi cael llawer o gwynion gan Aelodau’r Cynulliad na neb arall am y cynllun, er fy mod yn deall nad yw wedi gweithio ym mhob ardal. Mae’n sicr yn rhywbeth y byddwn yn fodlon ailedrych arno os oes gennych dystiolaeth yr hoffech ei chyflwyno imi.

David Lloyd: In supporting the choice-based letting principle, could you outline the discussions that you have had, or intend to have, with social housing providers on allocating extra housing points to applicants with a proven local link, which would help to sustain and develop local community cohesion?

David Lloyd: Wrth gefnogi’r egwyddor o osod sy’n seiliedig ar ddewis, a allech ddisgrifio’r trafodaethau yr ydych wedi eu cael, neu yr ydych yn bwriadu eu cael, â darparwyr tai cymdeithasol ynghylch dyrannu pwyntiau tai ychwanegol i ymgeiswyr sydd â chysylltiad lleol wedi ei brofi, a fyddai o gymorth i gynnal a datblygu cydlyniant cymunedau lleol?

Jocelyn Davies: I recently saw a choice-based letting scheme in north Wales that placed people in bands according to housing need, but then ensured that allocations, overall, were made from every banding. Therefore, 50 per cent of the allocations were made to people in band A, that is, people with the highest need. However, allocations were also made to people in very low bands, who did not have particular housing needs. There was a suggestion that that resulted in a more balanced community. Perhaps that is something that could be looked at in greater detail by other associations and social landlords elsewhere.

Jocelyn Davies: Gwelais gynllun gosod sy’n seiliedig ar ddewis yn y gogledd yn ddiweddar a roddai bobl mewn bandiau yn ôl anghenion tai, ond a sicrhâi wedyn fod dyraniadau, yn gyffredinol, yn cael eu rhoi o bob band. Felly, yr oedd 50 y cant o’r dyraniadau i bobl ym mand A, hynny yw, pobl sydd â’r angen mwyaf. Fodd bynnag, yr oedd dyraniadau hefyd i bobl mewn bandiau isel iawn, a oedd heb unrhyw anghenion tai penodol. Yr oedd awgrym bod hynny’n arwain at gymuned fwy cytbwys. Efallai y gallai cymdeithasau eraill a landlordiaid cymdeithasol mewn mannau eraill edrych yn fanylach ar hynny.

Peter Black: Do you accept that choice-based letting schemes can be very crude in the way that they assess need? Could you consider the successful project that is being put in place by Cardiff Council of having a common waiting list for itself and all of the housing associations, and how that can be rolled out through your national housing strategy?

Peter Black: A ydych yn derbyn y gall cynlluniau gosod sy’n seiliedig ar ddewis fod yn gyntefig iawn o ran y modd y maent yn asesu angen? A allech ystyried y prosiect llwyddiannus iawn sy’n cael ei sefydlu gan Gyngor Caerdydd i gael rhestr aros gyffredin iddo’i hun ac i’r holl gymdeithasau tai, a sut y gellir rhoi hwnnw ar waith drwy eich strategaeth dai genedlaethol?

Jocelyn Davies: I will certainly consider that, Peter. Cardiff Council often comes up with novel ways that work really well. I will be happy to visit Cardiff Council to look at that scheme. Common registers seem to make sense because there is less duplication and it is much easier for applicants.

Jocelyn Davies: Byddaf yn sicr yn ystyried hynny, Peter. Mae Cyngor Caerdydd yn aml yn dyfeisio dulliau newydd sy’n gweithio’n dda iawn. Byddaf yn falch o ymweld â Chyngor Caerdydd i edrych ar y cynllun hwnnw. Mae’n ymddangos bod cofrestrau cyffredin yn synhwyrol gan fod llai o ddyblygu ac mae’n llawer haws i ymgeiswyr.

2.40 p.m.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Question 9, OAQ(3)0913(ESH), and question 10, OAQ(3)0940(ESH), are withdrawn, and question 11, OAQ(3)0943(ESH), question 12, OAQ(3)0966(ESH), and question 13, OAQ(3)0967(ESH), have been transferred for written answer.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Tynnwyd cwestiwn 9, OAQ(3)0913(ESH), a chwestiwn 10, OAQ(3)0940(ESH), yn ôl, a throsglwyddwyd cwestiwn 11, OAQ(3)0943(ESH), cwestiwn 12, OAQ(3)0966(ESH), a chwestiwn 13, OAQ(3)0967(ESH), i’w hateb yn ysgrifenedig.

Empty Homes

Q14 Helen Mary Jones: What is the Welsh Assembly Government doing to bring empty homes back into use in Wales? OAQ(3)0958(ESH)

C14  Helen Mary Jones: Beth y mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn ei wneud i ailddechrau defnyddio cartrefi gwag yng Nghymru? OAQ(3)0958(ESH)

Jocelyn Davies: Assembly Government officials are currently working in partnership with Shelter Cymru to publish and to promote best practice guidance on empty homes and to provide support for local authorities to enable them to make more effective use of empty homes to meet housing need.

Jocelyn Davies: Mae swyddogion Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn gweithio mewn partneriaeth â Shelter Cymru ar hyn o bryd i gyhoeddi a hyrwyddo canllawiau ar yr arferion gorau ynghylch cartrefi gwag ac i ddarparu cymorth i awdurdodau lleol i’w galluogi i ddefnyddio cartrefi gwag yn fwy effeithiol i ddiwallu anghenion tai.

Helen Mary Jones: I am pleased to hear you refer to Shelter Cymru. You will be aware, Minister, that Shelter Cymru estimates that there are over 24,000 privately owned empty homes in Wales. What steps can the Government take to ensure that these homes are brought back into use? Will the new housing legislative competence Order that the Government is bringing forward give you sufficient powers to take any measures if necessary?

Helen Mary Jones: Yr wyf yn falch eich clywed yn cyfeirio at Shelter Cymru. Byddwch yn ymwybodol, Weinidog, fod Shelter Cymru yn amcangyfrif bod dros 24,000 o gartrefi gwag mewn perchnogaeth breifat yng Nghymru. Pa gamau y gall y Llywodraeth eu cymryd i sicrhau ailddefnyddio’r cartrefi hyn? A fydd y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol newydd ynghylch tai y mae’r Llywodraeth yn ei gyflwyno yn rhoi pwerau digonol ichi gymryd camau os bydd angen?

Jocelyn Davies: Shelter Cymru says that there could be as many as 25,000 long-term empty properties in private hands. Not all of them would be useful to us, but I am sure that many of them would. We are providing funding for Shelter’s empty homes project, which gives examples of good practice and advice to a number of local authorities. It has also allowed us to establish a national forum on empty homes. I am sure that Members will be interested to learn that there will be a website that will be available through the media of Welsh and English where members of the public can report empty properties to Shelter. We are working with the National Landlords Association because, very often, empty properties in private hands can be let to people and, sometimes, for a small grant, the local authority can have nomination rights. The project also produces a briefing about empty homes for elected members. I hope that that will be available soon, and perhaps we could make it available to all Assembly Members. I will not promise that we will get all of the powers that we would like to have, but we will certainly try our best.

Jocelyn Davies: Dywed Shelter Cymru ei bod yn bosibl fod cynifer â 25,000 o dai a fu’n wag dros dymor hir sydd mewn dwylo preifat. Ni fyddai pob un ohonynt yn ddefnyddiol inni, ond yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai nifer ohonynt. Yr ydym yn darparu cyllid ar gyfer prosiect Shelter ar gyfer cartrefi gwag, sy’n rhoi enghreifftiau o arferion da a chyngor i nifer o awdurdodau lleol. Mae hefyd wedi caniatáu inni sefydlu fforwm cenedlaethol ar gartrefi gwag. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd o ddiddordeb i Aelodau wybod y bydd gwefan ar gael drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg a’r Saesneg lle caiff y cyhoedd roi gwybod i Shelter am dai gwag. Yr ydym yn cydweithio â Chymdeithas Genedlaethol y Landlordiaid oherwydd, yn aml iawn, gellir gosod tai gwag sydd mewn dwylo preifat i bobl, ac weithiau, yn gyfnewid am grant bach, gall yr awdurdod lleol gael hawliau enwebu. Mae’r prosiect hefyd yn cynhyrchu gwybodaeth am gartrefi gwag i aelodau etholedig. Gobeithio y bydd honno ar gael cyn hir, ac efallai y gallem ei darparu i holl Aelodau’r Cynulliad. Ni wyf am addo y cawn yr holl bwerau y carem eu cael, ond byddwn yn sicr o wneud ein gorau.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I have had notice from William Graham that he wishes to raise a point of order.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Yr wyf wedi cael rhybudd gan William Graham ei fod yn dymuno codi pwynt o drefn.

William Graham: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I wish to raise a point of order under the annex of Standing Order No. 1, point 2, which gives:

William Graham: Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Dymunaf godi pwynt o drefn dan yr atodiad i Reol Sefydlog Rhif 1, pwynt 2, sy’n rhoi:

Darpariaeth i’r Aelodau ymgymryd â mater sy’n effeithio ar yr etholaeth neu’r rhanbarth y’u hetholwyd drosti neu drosto gan sicrhau cwrteisi ar yr un pryd ar faterion sy’n effeithio ar fwy nag un etholaeth.

I would be grateful for your ruling, Deputy Presiding Officer, on what seemed to be a convention here over a number of Assemblies, where Minister gave confidential briefings to constituency Members. It was extremely helpful, particularly in cases where Members were spokespeople. I always understood this to include regional Members—so all Members—particularly in cases involving major schemes. I understand that this is not now the case. Therefore, I would be grateful for your ruling.

Byddwn yn ddiolchgar am ddyfarniad gennych, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ar yr hyn a ymddangosai’n gonfensiwn yma dros nifer o Gynulliadau, lle byddai Gweinidog yn briffio Aelodau dros etholaethau yn gyfrinachol. Yr oedd o gymorth mawr, yn enwedig mewn achosion lle’r oedd Aelodau’n llefarwyr. Deallwn bob amser fod hyn yn cynnwys Aelodau rhanbarthol—ac felly’r holl Aelodau—yn enwedig mewn achosion sy’n ymwneud â chynlluniau mawr. Deallaf nad felly y mae’n awr. Felly, byddwn yn ddiolchgar am gael dyfarniad gennych.

Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth (Ieuan Wyn Jones): Bydd Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn cofio imi gyhoeddi strategaeth trafnidiaeth Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru y llynedd o dan y teitl 'Cysylltu’r Genedl’. Mae’r cynllun sy’n cael ei gyflwyno ichi heddiw yn amlinellu manylion yr hyn yr ydym yn bwriadu ei wneud mewn perthynas â’r strategaeth ac mae’n seiliedig ar dair egwyddor allweddol. Yr egwyddor gyntaf yw ateb y galw am symudedd gwell i alluogi twf economaidd ac i wella ansawdd bywyd pobl Cymru. Yr ail yw rhoi trafnidiaeth ar lwybr mwy cynaliadwy a llai carbon-ddwys, a’r drydedd egwyddor yw defnyddio arian trafnidiaeth yn fwy effeithiol o ystyried y pwysau cynyddol sydd ar gyllid cyhoeddus.

The Deputy First Minister and Minister for the Economy and Transport (Ieuan Wyn Jones): Assembly Members will recall that last year I published the Welsh Assembly Government’s transport strategy under the title 'Connecting the Nation’. The plan which is presented to you today details the action we intend to take in line with the strategy, and it is based on three key principles. The first principle is to meet the demand for enhanced mobility to enable economic growth and to improve quality of life for the people of Wales. The second is to put transport onto a more sustainable and less carbon-intensive path, and the third principle is to use transport funding more effectively in light of increasing pressures on public finances.

I am very grateful to the ministerial advisory group, led by Richard Parry-Jones, for their advice on the transport network and I have accepted the vast majority of their recommendations.

Mae trafnidiaeth yn edau cyson sy’n cyfrannu at lwyddiant nifer o strategaethau Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru. Mae pwerau newydd yn rhoi cyfle inni ddefnyddio’r llinyn i wau clytwaith o ddarpariaeth trafnidiaeth ar draws y genedl—o ffyrdd i reilffyrdd, ac o fysiau i feiciau. Fodd bynnag, mae mwy i’w wneud. Rhaid inni weithio tuag at system drafnidiaeth datgarboneiddio, lle mae pobl yn gallu dewis ffyrdd mwy iachus a chynaliadwy o deithio.

Transport is a consistent thread that contributes to the success of many Welsh Assembly Government strategies. Newly acquired powers have given us the opportunity to use that thread to weave together the patchwork of transport provision across the nation—from roads to railways, and buses to bicycles. However, more needs to be done. We must work towards a decarbonised transport system, in which people can choose more healthy and sustainable modes of travel.

That is why we are aiming to increase the number of people walking or cycling. In our programme for Sustainable Travel Towns, we will invest in new walking and cycling routes, and link existing ones. Across the wider network, we have plans to increase the provision of bicycle facilities on trains, at stations and in towns and cities.

Dyna pam yr ydym yn anelu at gynyddu nifer  y bobl sy’n cerdded neu’n beicio. Yn ein rhaglen ar Drefi Teithio Cynaliadwy, byddwn yn buddsoddi mewn llwybrau cerdded a beicio newydd, ac yn cysylltu’r rhai sy’n bodoli’n barod. Ar draws y rhwydwaith ehangach, mae gennym gynlluniau i gynyddu darparu cyfleusterau ar gyfer beiciau ar drenau, mewn gorsafoedd ac mewn trefi a dinasoedd.

We must develop our transport system to ensure that it continues to support economic prosperity, especially when we are faced with the global challenges of an economic downturn, as we are now. That means having a transport system that allows people to access services and which removes barriers for people seeking jobs, particularly in less prosperous areas.  

Rhaid inni ddatblygu ein system drafnidiaeth i sicrhau ei bod yn dal i gynnal ffyniant economaidd, yn enwedig pan fyddwn yn wynebu sialensiau byd-eang dirywiad economaidd, fel yr ydym ar hyn o bryd. Mae hynny’n golygu cael system drafnidiaeth sy’n caniatáu i boblallu cael gwasanaethau ac sy’n dileu’r hyn sy’n rhwystro pobl rhag ceisio am swyddi, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd llai llewyrchus.

The Eddington report stresses the importance of a long-term strategic outlook, which we have in 'Connecting the Nation’. It also points out that investment should be concentrated where economic success has concentrated demand, notably around urban areas, at international gateways and on busy inter-urban corridors, where congestion, delay and reliability are already real issues.  

Mae adroddiad Eddington yn pwysleisio pwysigrwydd rhagolygon strategol tymor hir, rhywbeth sydd gennym yn 'Cysylltu’r Genedl’. Mae hefyd yn tynnu sylw at y ffaith y dylid crynhoi buddsoddi yn y mannau lle mae llwyddiant economaidd wedi crynhoi’r galw, yn arbennig yng nghyffiniau ardaloedd trefol, wrth byrth rhyngwladol ac ar goridorau prysur rhwng trefi, lle mae tagfeydd, oedi a dibynadwyedd eisoes yn broblemau gwirioneddol.

We must add to that our goal of spreading access to economic prosperity across Wales, particularly to the convergence areas from the north-west to the south Wales Valleys. We must ensure that areas and communities that lag behind because they have been hit by the decline of traditional industries can benefit from a resurgent economy.  

Rhaid inni ychwanegu at hynny ein nod o ehangu mynediad at ffyniant economaidd ar draws Cymru, yn enwedig i’r ardaloedd cydgyfeirio o’r gogledd-orllewin hyd at Gymoedd y de. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod ardaloedd a chymunedau sydd ar ei hôl hi am eu bod wedi eu taro gan y dirywiad mewn diwydiannau traddodiadol yn gallu elwa o economi sy’n cryfhau eto.

The national transport plan sets out what we will be doing to put us firmly on the path to delivering the Welsh Assembly Government’s vision over the next five years. It is set out in a way that reflects the four main movement corridors in Wales, that is, the east-west corridor in the north, the mid and south corridors, and the north-south corridors, as well as proposals that are relevant across Wales.

Mae’r cynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol yn nodi’r hyn y byddwn yn ei wneud i’n gosod yn gadarn ar y llwybr tuag at wireddu gweledigaeth Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru dros y pum mlynedd nesaf. Mae wedi’i gyflwyno mewn ffordd sy’n adlewyrchu’r pedwar prif goridor symud yng Nghymru, hynny yw, y coridor rhwng y dwyrain a’r gorllewin yn y gogledd, coridorau’r canolbarth a’r de, a’r coridorau rhwng y gogledd a’r de, yn ogystal â chynigion sy’n berthnasol ar draws Cymru.

The proposals for the main corridors share two aims: to improve the reliability, quality and speed of rail travel and to improve journey times and safety on the main trunk roads. The plan outlines how, in the north-west, we wish to address network and capacity issues on the A55, which will ensure more reliable journey times and will help to support the Môn a Menai regeneration programme. The work will include capacity for walkers and cyclists. In the north-east, we will identify the most appropriate and sustainable transport solutions to deal with pressures in the area between Wrexham, Chester and Deeside.

Mae i’r cynigion o ran y prif goridorau ddau nod: gwella dibynadwyedd, ansawdd a chyflymder teithio ar y rheilffyrdd a gwella amseroedd teithio a diogelwch ar y prif gefnffyrdd. Mae’r cynllun yn amlinellu sut yr ydym, yn y gogledd-orllewin, am ymdrin â’r ystyriaethau rhwydwaith a chapasiti ar yr A55, a fydd yn sicrhau amseroedd teithio mwy dibynadwy ac yn helpu cynnal rhaglen adfywio Môn a Menai. Bydd y gwaith yn cynnwys capasiti i gerddwyr a beicwyr. Yn y gogledd-ddwyrain, byddwn yn nodi atebion trafnidiaeth gynaliadwy i ddelio â phwysau yn yr ardal rhwng Wrecsam, Caer a Glannau Dyfrdwy.

Our programme of continued improvements to north-south rail services will also improve east-west rail journeys in that region. We are committed to developing plans to enhance the capacity of the section of rail between Shrewsbury and Chester via Wrexham, enabling all north-south services to be routed through Wrexham. Our aim in relation to north-south links is to increase dramatically the proportion of journeys that are made by public transport by improving rail travel and the TrawsCambria bus network. Over time, we will see a better service, covering more communities, in greater comfort.

Bydd ein rhaglen o welliannau parhaus yn y gwasanaethau rheilffordd rhwng y gogledd a’r de hefyd yn gwella siwrneiau rheilffordd rhwng y dwyrain a’r gorllewin yn y rhanbarth hwnnw. Yr ydym wedi ymrwymo i ddatblygu cynlluniau i gynyddu capasiti’r darn o reilffordd rhwng Amwythig a Chaer drwy Wrecsam, gan alluogi’r holl wasanaethau rhwng y gogledd a’r de i gael eu cyfeirio drwy Wrecsam. Ein nod mewn perthynas â chysylltiadau gogledd-de yw cynyddu cyfran y siwrneiau a wneir ar gludiant cyhoeddus yn ddramatig drwy wella teithio ar y rheilffyrdd a rhwydwaith bysiau TrawsCambria. Dros gyfnod o amser, byddwn yn gweld gwell gwasanaeth, yn cwmpasu rhagor o gymunedau, mewn modd mwy cysurus.

We have plans that will bring to an end the need for different tickets for different bus and rail journeys in Wales. A Welsh transport entitlement card will offer people the ability to have one ticket for their journey.

Mae gennym gynlluniau a fydd yn rhoi terfyn ar yr angen am wahanol docynnau ar gyfer gwahanol siwrneiau bws a thrên yng Nghymru. Bydd cerdyn hawl trafnidiaeth yn cynnig y gallu i bobl i gael un tocyn ar gyfer eu siwrnai.

On north-south road links, I have outlined my priorities in the trunk road programme, which includes improvements to the A470, the A487 and the A483, and the completion of the Ceredigion link road. We are also examining opportunities for using two-plus-one lanes and passing lanes to improve north-south journey times, reliability and safety for cars, public transport, walkers and cyclists.

O ran y cysylltiadau ffordd rhwng y gogledd a’r de, yr wyf wedi amlinellu fy mlaenoriaethau yn y rhaglen gefnffyrdd, sy’n cynnwys gwelliannau ar yr A470, yr A487 a’r A483, a chwblhau ffordd gyswllt Ceredigion. Yr ydym hefyd yn archwilio cyfleoedd i ddefnyddio ffyrdd ddwy lôn ac un lôn a lonydd goddiweddyd i wella amseroedd teithio rhwng y gogledd a’r de, dibynadwyedd a diogelwch i geir, cludiant cyhoeddus, cerddwyr a beicwyr.

Improving connectivity in mid Wales, including east-west links, is an important factor if we are to enhance the vibrancy of towns and villages in these rural areas.  

Mae gwella cysylltedd yng nghanolbarth Cymru, gan gynnwys cysylltiadau rhwng y dwyrain a’r gorllewin, yn ffactor pwysig os ydym i wneud y trefi a’r pentrefi yn yr ardaloedd gwledig hyn yn fwy bywiog.

Work to enhance the Cambrian line by providing additional passing loops will be completed next year. That will allow us to introduce hourly services between Aberystwyth and Shrewsbury. We will also develop plans to introduce additional services on the Heart of Wales line.

Bydd gwaith i wella’r rheilffordd Cambrian drwy ddarparu dolennau pasio ychwanegol yn cael ei gwblhau flwyddyn nesaf. Bydd hynny’n caniatáu inni gyflwyno gwasanaethau bob awr rhwng Aberystwyth ac Amwythig. Byddwn hefyd yn datblygu cynlluniau i gyflwyno gwasanaethau ychwanegol ar reilffordd Calon Cymru.

Many of the improvements to the main road arteries in mid Wales were outlined in the trunk road programme, but we will also work with the UK Government to deliver the intervention identified for the A458.  

Amlinellwyd nifer o’r gwelliannau ar y prif rydwelïau ffordd yn y canolbarth yn ein rhaglen gefnffyrdd, ond byddwn hefyd yn gweithio gyda Llywodraeth y DU i wireddu’r ymyriad a nodwyd ar gyfer yr A458.

On east-west rail links in south Wales, we are working with the UK Government and the rail industry to improve rail services, particularly on the Great Western main line between Swansea and London, with the ultimate goal of securing the electrification of that line as part of a high-speed rail network. I met Lord Adonis yesterday and had further positive discussions with him regarding the electrification of the Great Western main line as far as Swansea. Lord Adonis has indicated that he expects to be able to make an announcement on this shortly.

O ran cysylltiadau rheilffordd rhwng y dwyrain a’r gorllewin yn ne Cymru, yr ydym yn gweithio gyda Llywodraeth y DU a’r diwydiant rheilffyrdd i wella’r gwasanaethau rheilffyrdd, yn enwedig ar brif reilffordd Great Western rhwng Abertawe a Llundain, gyda’r nod yn y pen draw o sicrhau bod y rheilffordd honno’n cael ei thrydaneiddio fel rhan o rwydwaith rheilffyrdd cyflym iawn. Cyfarfûm â’r Arglwydd Adonis ddoe, a chefais drafodaethau cadarnhaol pellach gydag ef ynglŷn â thrydaneiddio prif reilffordd Great Western cyn belled ag Abertawe. Mae’r Arglwydd Adonis wedi dweud ei fod yn disgwyl gallu gwneud cyhoeddiad ar hyn yn fuan.

2.50 p.m.

The transport plan commits to increasing the capacity of the Valleys lines, with additional platforms, carriages and services. That is in addition to the £3.2 million that we are contributing to new park-and-ride spaces along the south Wales rail routes. We also intend to integrate the development of cycle routes through the south-east Valleys. In Newport, we will complete both the redevelopment of the rail station and the improvements to Gaer junction to enable direct rail services between Ebbw Vale and Newport by 2011. That is a crucial development for the Heads of the Valleys regeneration scheme. Further west, we will redouble the railway line between Gowerton and Loughor. In planning for the longer term, we will look at the feasibility of reopening old railway lines as transport corridors. We should be innovative and not defined by the past: we should look to the potential for light rail and guided buses.

Mae’r cynllun trafnidiaeth yn ymrwymo i gynyddu capasiti rheilffyrdd y Cymoedd, gyda phlatfformau, cerbydau a gwasanaethau ychwanegol. Mae hynny’n ychwanegol at y £3.2 miliwn yr ydym yn ei gyfrannu tuag at fannau parcio a theithio newydd ar hyd llwybrau rheilffordd de Cymru. Yr ydym hefyd yn bwriadu integreiddio’r gwaith o ddatblygu llwybrau beicio drwy Gymoedd y de-ddwyrain. Yng Nghasnewydd, byddwn yn cwblhau’r gwaith o ailddatblygu’r orsaf drenau a hefyd y gwelliannau i gyffordd Gaer fel bod modd cynnal gwasanaethau rheilffordd uniongyrchol rhwng Glynebwy a Chasnewydd erbyn 2011. Mae hwnnw’n ddatblygiad tyngedfennol i gynllun adfywio Blaenau’r Cymoedd. Ymhellach i’r gorllewin, byddwn yn ailsefydlu’r rheilffordd rhwng Tre-gŵyr a Chasllwchwr yn lein ddwbl. Wrth gynllunio ar gyfer y tymor hwy, byddwn yn ystyried dichonoldeb ailagor hen reilffyrdd fel coridorau trafnidiaeth. Dylem fod yn arloesol a pheidio â chael ein diffinio gan y gorffennol: dylem edrych ar y potensial ar gyfer rheilffyrdd ysgafn a bysiau tywys.

On the south Wales road network, we will complete improvements to the A465 Heads of the Valleys road by 2020, adhering to the exact timetable that I inherited. We will also start a programme of works to reduce journey times on the A40 and the A477. We will also fund the completion of the Port Talbot peripheral distributor road to reduce congestion on the M4 and the Church Village bypass.

Ar rwydwaith ffyrdd de Cymru, byddwn yn cwblhau gwelliannau ar ffordd yr A465 Blaenau’r Cymoedd erbyn 2020, gan gadw at yr union amserlen a etifeddais. Byddwn hefyd yn dechrau ar raglen o waith i leihau amseroedd teithio ar yr A40 a’r A477. Byddwn hefyd yn cyllido’r gwaith o gwblhau ffordd ddosbarthu cyrion Port Talbot er mwyn lleihau’r tagfeydd ar yr M4 a ffordd osgoi Gartholwg.

As Members know, the Welsh Assembly Government wants to improve access to Cardiff Airport. We have consulted on a number of potential schemes. Following a study on potential routes to the airport, which highlighted the limited economic benefits to the airport itself when compared to the cost of the scheme and concerns around the environmental impact, I announce that we will not be taking forward these proposals. Instead, we will invest in improvements to the A4226—Five Mile Lane—which will help ease traffic movement at Weycock Cross and improve the safety of the road. I also announce that we will improve public transport access to Cardiff Airport, by creating more frequent bus and train services to connect the airport and Cardiff, as well as providing more convenient and regular trains between Bridgend and Barry.

Fel y gŵyr Aelodau, mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru am wella mynediad i Maes Awyr Caerdydd. Yr ydym wedi ymgynghori ar nifer o gynlluniau posibl. Yn dilyn astudiaeth o lwybrau posibl i’r maes awyr, a oedd yn tynnu sylw at y budd economaidd cyfyngedig i’r maes awyr ei hun o’i gymharu â chost y cynllun a phryderon am yr effaith amgylcheddol, cyhoeddaf na fyddwn yn bwrw ymlaen â’r cynigion hyn. Yn hytrach, byddwn yn buddsoddi i wella’r A4226—Five Mile Lane—a fydd yn helpu hwyluso symudiadau traffig yn Weycock Cross ac yn gwella diogelwch y ffyrdd. Cyhoeddaf hefyd y byddwn yn gwella mynediad i gludiant cyhoeddus i faes awyr Caerdydd, drwy greu gwasanaethau bws a thrên mwy mynych i gysylltu’r maes awyr a Chaerdydd, yn ogystal â darparu trenau mwy hwylus a rheolaidd rhwng Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr a’r Barri.

The national transport plan sets out how we will resolve issues of capacity, safety and resilience along the M4 corridor in south-east Wales. In 2004, the Wales spatial plan identified the need to increase transport capacity along the M4 corridor. Subsequently, the new M4 scheme was included in the trunk road forward programme. The estimated cost of the scheme at that time was £340 million and the intention was that it would be taken forward as a public-private partnership, built with private finance, which would be recovered through tolling. Today, the cost of constructing the new M4 scheme with value added tax and potential inflation is estimated to be in the region of £1 billion, which means that the project has become unaffordable. The business case demonstrates that tolling the new M4, while other routes remain free to use, would significantly reduce the economic, environmental and social benefits of the project. The tolling of the new M4 alone would not raise the funds necessary for the scheme, and tolling both roads, in addition to the toll on the Severn crossings, would damage the attractiveness of south Wales as a location for investment. We have therefore decided that other methods of addressing the safety and capacity issues on the existing route and the other routes that are parallel to it represent better value for money and we will not be implementing the relief road scheme.

Mae’r cynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol yn nodi sut y byddwn yn datrys materion capasiti, diogelwch a chyfnerthu ar hyd coridor yr M4 yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru. Yn 2004, nododd cynllun gofodol Cymru fod angen cynyddu’r capasiti trafnidiaeth ar hyd coridor yr M4. Yn dilyn hynny, cynhwyswyd cynllun yr M4 newydd yn y flaenraglen cefnffyrdd. Yr oedd cost amcangyfrifedig y cynllun bryd hynny yn £340 miliwn a’r bwriad oedd y câi ei symud ymlaen fel partneriaeth gyhoeddus-breifat, wedi’i adeiladu ar gyllid preifat, a gâi ei adennill drwy dollau. Heddiw, amcangyfrifir y byddai’r gost o adeiladu cynllun yr M4 newydd, gan gynnwys treth ar werth a chwyddiant posibl, oddeutu £1 biliwn, sy’n golygu na ellir fforddio’r prosiect mwyach. Mae’r achos busnes yn dangos y byddai codi tollau ar yr M4 newydd, tra byddai llwybrau eraill yn dal yr rhad ac am ddim i’w defnyddio, yn lleihau manteision economaidd, amgylcheddol a chymdeithasol y prosiect yn sylweddol. Ni fyddai codi tollau ar yr M4 newydd ynddo’i hun yn codi’r arian angenrheidiol ar gyfer y cynllun, a byddai codi toll ar y ddwy ffordd, yn ychwanegol at y doll ar groesfannau Hafren, yn gwneud de Cymru yn llai deniadol fel lleoliad ar gyfer buddsoddi. Yr ydym, felly, wedi penderfynu bod dulliau eraill o ymdrin â’r materion diogelwch a chapasiti ar y llwybr presennol a’r llwybrau eraill sy’n gyfochrog ag ef yn rhoi gwell gwerth am yr arian ac ni fyddwn yn rhoi cynllun y ffordd liniaru ar waith.

We do, however, accept the need to urgently address safety and capacity issues on the existing route and I can announce today that that work will be accelerated. Over the next two years, we will seek to introduce a range of measures, which will include new rail facilities and stations within the Newport area and the introduction of park-and-ride sites throughout south-east Wales. Secondly, there will be improvements and modifications to motorway junctions to ease the movement of local traffic while ensuring that long-distance traffic flows freely, and, thirdly, there will be enhancements and improvements to the local road network and a programme of personalised travel planning across south Wales to help achieve sustained behavioural change. Through these measures, we will seek to tackle congestion around the Tredegar Park area and reduce the traffic flows through the Brynglas tunnels. We will also explore making considerable improvements to the steelworks access road and the southern distributor road. To improve safety, we will install concrete central reserve barriers and introduce a controlled motorway infrastructure between junctions 24 and 29.

Yr ydym, fodd bynnag, yn derbyn bod angen rhoi sylw ar unwaith i faterion diogelwch a chapasiti ar y llwybr presennol, a gallaf gyhoeddi heddiw y bydd y gwaith hwnnw’n cael ei gyflymu. Dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf, byddwn yn ceisio cyflwyno ystod o fesurau, a fydd yn cynnwys cyfleusterau a gorsafoedd rheilffordd newydd yn ardal Casnewydd a chyflwyno safleoedd parcio a theithio ledled de-ddwyrain Cymru. Yn ail, bydd gwelliannau a newidiadau ar gyffyrdd traffyrdd i hwyluso symudiadau traffig lleol a sicrhau ar yr un pryd fod traffig pellter hir yn llifo’n ddilyffethair, ac, yn drydydd, bydd ychwanegiadau a gwelliannau yn y rhwydwaith ffyrdd lleol a rhaglen o gynllunio teithio personol ar draws de Cymru i helpu gwireddu newid parhaol mewn ymddygiad. Drwy’r mesurau hyn, byddwn yn ceisio mynd i’r afael â’r tagfeydd o amgylch ardal Parc Tredegar a lleihau llif y traffig drwy dwnelau Bryn-glas. Byddwn hefyd yn ystyried gwneud gwelliannau sylweddol i ffordd fynediad y gwaith dur a’r ffordd ddosbarthu ddeheuol. I wella diogelwch, byddwn yn gosod rhwystrau concrid ar y llain ganol ac yn cyflwyno seilwaith traffordd a reolir rhwng cyffyrdd 24 a 29.

My message to businesses and the wider community is that this Government is committed to reducing congestion and restoring capacity and reliability to this absolutely vital east-west corridor. Today we pledge to do so in a way that is financially and environmentally sustainable and that improves the resilience of the road with urgency.

Fy neges i fusnesau ac i’r gymuned ehangach yw bod y Llywodraeth hon wedi ymrwymo i leihau tagfeydd ac i adfer capasiti a dibynadwyedd ar y coridor cwbl hanfodol hwn rhwng y dwyrain a’r gorllewin. Heddiw, yr ydym yn addunedu i wneud hynny mewn ffordd sy’n gynaliadwy yn ariannol ac yn amgylcheddol ac sy’n cyfnerthu’r ffordd yn ddiymdroi.

Transport plays a crucial role in uniting our country and ensuring economic prosperity, but we must get the balance right. We are no longer just being warned about climate change—we are starting to experience its impact. The period of economic growth that many of us have shared has ended with a jolt that we have all felt.

Mae i drafnidiaeth rôl hanfodol i uno ein gwlad a sicrhau ffyniant economaidd, ond rhaid inni gael y cydbwysedd yn iawn. Nid cael rhybuddion am newid yn yr hinsawdd yn unig yr ydym mwyach—yr ydym yn dechrau gweld ei effaith. Mae’r cyfnod o dwf economaidd y mae llawer ohonom wedi cael profiad ohono wedi gorffen gydag ysgytwad yr ydym i gyd wedi’i theimlo.

It is therefore important to be measured in our response. This sustainable, integrated transport plan will contribute to economic recovery; it will help people to get to jobs and access services and facilities where they might previously have struggled without a car. The plan will also help us to deliver our contribution to the environment, particularly our targets for emissions reductions, and will help us to create a sustainable, integrated transport system fit for twenty-first century Wales.

Mae’n bwysig, felly, inni fod yn bwyllog yn ein hymateb. Bydd y cynllun trafnidiaeth cynaliadwy, integredig hwn yn cyfrannu at adferiad economaidd, a bydd yn helpu pobl i gyrraedd swyddi a chyrchu at wasanaethau a chyfleusterau lle byddent gynt, efallai, wedi ei chael yn anodd heb gar. Bydd y cynllun yn ein helpu hefyd i wireddu ein cyfraniad i’r amgylchedd, yn enwedig ein targedau o ran gostwng allyriadau, a bydd yn help inni greu system gludiant gynaliadwy, integredig sy’n addas i Gymru’r unfed ganrif ar hugain.

David Melding: I thank the Deputy First Minister for his courteousness in giving me an advance copy of the national transport plan and also for giving the opposition spokespeople a briefing on this. I am grateful for that.

David Melding: Diolch i’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog am ei gwrteisi yn rhoi imi gopi ymlaen llaw o’r cynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol, a hefyd am friffio llefarwyr y gwrthbleidiau ar hyn. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am hynny.

We have heard this afternoon that the major area where future capital cuts are likely to fall is transport. That is the first inference that I make from what the Deputy First Minister has said this afternoon. There was nothing in his speech to indicate that he would protect his budget or at least ensure that disproportionate cuts do not fall within it. We all realise that future spending rounds will be difficult, but I question whether the best choice that he can make in investing in the future prosperity of our economy is to cut back on major strategic transport infrastructure schemes.

Yr ydym wedi clywed y prynhawn yma mai trafnidiaeth yw’r prif faes lle mae toriadau cyfalaf yn debygol o ddisgyn yn y dyfodol. Dyna’r casgliad cyntaf a wnaf o’r hyn y mae’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog wedi’i ddweud y prynhawn yma. Nid oedd dim yn ei araith i nodi y byddai’n amddiffyn ei gyllideb, neu o leiaf yn sicrhau na fydd toriadau anghymesur yn disgyn arni. Yr ydym i gyd yn sylweddoli y bydd cylchoedd gwariant y dyfodol yn anodd, ond yr wyf yn amau ai’r dewis gorau y gall ei wneud wrth fuddsoddi yn ffyniant ein heconomi i’r dyfodol yw torri’n ôl ar gynlluniau seilwaith trafnidiaeth strategol mawr.

The two big announcements were almost whispered out during his statement. He said that the M4 relief road, which has long been accepted as a strategic necessity by the business community and, I had thought, by parties of all persuasion in the National Assembly, will now not go ahead—under the pretence that it is all of a sudden unaffordable. So, it has been removed totally from the trunk road programme—not temporarily suspended for further investigation or until an economic recovery takes place, but removed from the programme.

Bu bron iddo â sibrwd y ddau gyhoeddiad mawr yn ystod ei ddatganiad. Dywedodd na fydd ffordd liniaru’r M4, sydd wedi ei derbyn ers tro byd fel anghenraid strategol gan y gymuned fusnes, ac yr oeddwn wedi tybio, gan bleidiau o bob lliw yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, yn mynd rhagddi mwyach—gan esgus nad yw, yn sydyn iawn, yn rhywbeth y gallwn ei fforddio. Felly, mae wedi ei thynnu’n llwyr o’r rhaglen gefnffyrdd—nid ei hatal dros dro nes bydd ymchwiliadau pellach neu nes daw adfywiad economaidd, ond ei thynnu o’r rhaglen.

I would like to know what consultation he has had with the business community on this, because it has told the National Assembly time and again that we must ensure that the M4 is effective and smooth-running along its entire length, but particularly around Newport. That has not changed. We will, of course, support the scheme of ameliorative measures that he has announced. We are all in favour of managing traffic flows more effectively, but that will not deliver—in fairness to him, he did not claim as much—what would be achieved by an M4 relief road. So a strategic objective has been removed on the grounds of a likely lack of future investment in his budget and the lack of a model that he can identify to sustain that strategic requirement.  

Hoffwn wybod pa ymgynghoriadau y mae wedi’u cael gyda’r gymuned fusnes ynglŷn â hyn, oherwydd mae wedi dweud wrth y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol dro ar ôl tro ei bod yn rhaid inni sicrhau bod yr M4 yn effeithiol ac yn rhedeg yn ddilestair ar ei hyd o’r naill ben i’r llall, ond yn arbennig yng nghyffiniau Casnewydd. Nid yw hynny wedi newid. Byddwn, wrth gwrs, yn cefnogi’r cynllun o fesurau gwella y mae wedi’u cyhoeddi. Yr ydym i gyd o blaid rheoli llif traffig yn fwy effeithiol, ond ni fydd hynny—ac i fod yn deg, ni honnodd hynny—yn cyflawni’r hyn a gâi ei gyflawni gan ffordd liniaru’r M4. Felly, mae amcan strategol wedi ei ddileu ar sail diffyg buddsoddiad tebygol yn ei gyllideb yn y dyfodol a diffyg model y gall ei nodi i gynnal y gofyniad strategol hwnnw.

Mae arweinyddiaeth yn golygu cael atebion i broblemau anodd, nid rhoi’r problemau hynny yn y bin pan fyddwch yn wynebu anawsterau. Mae hefyd wedi gweithredu yn yr un modd yng nghyswllt ffordd fynediad i’r maes awyr. Yr oedd honno wedi ei derbyn ers amser maith fel rhywbeth sy’n ofynnol i economi’r de-ddwyrain. Mae’n bwysig dros ben darparu cymorth economaidd i gymuned y Barri yn ei chyfanrwydd. Nid yw’r Barri erioed wedi mwynhau cysylltiadau ffordd arbennig o effeithiol i Gaerdydd ac economi ehangach y de-ddwyrain. Mae hynny’n amcan enfawr. Yn wir, am flynyddoedd lawer, ffordd liniaru’r Barri oedd yr enw ar y ffordd, nid ffordd fynediad i’r maes awyr, er bod y ddau enw, i’m tyb i, yn briodol. Yr ydym newydd weld dileu’r cynllun hwnnw o raglen adeiladu ffyrdd y dyfodol.

3.00 p.m.

The Deputy First Minister has suggested improvements to Five Mile Lane. They have been ongoing and they have been necessary, and we would, of course, welcome greater public transport links to the airport. Again, however, a major strategic objective will not be met, and there is no prospect of its ever coming back, under his leadership of the programme. I must say that we expect more from the Minister for transport than just for him to shy away from the major challenges facing him.

Mae’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog wedi awgrymu gwelliannau yn Five Mile Lane. Maent wedi bod yn digwydd ac wedi bod yn angenrheidiol, ac, wrth gwrs, croesawem fyw o gysylltiadau cludiant cyhoeddus â’r maes awyr. Eto, fodd bynnag, bydd amcan strategol mawr heb ei gyflawni, ac nid oes dim rhagolwg y daw’n ôl byth, dan ei arweiniad ef dros y rhaglen. Rhaid imi ddweud ein bod yn disgwyl mwy gan y Gweinidog dros drafnidiaeth na cilio’n ôl rhag wynebu’r heriau mawr sydd o’i flaen.

Having said that, I accept that the challenge of securing the electrification of the south Wales line as far as Swansea is a major requirement for the future health of the south Wales economy. We will back him and his successors all the way to ensure that the British Government provides some of that investment, so that we do not see the scheme stopping at Bristol. We will do our bit here in the Assembly to encourage and secure the full electrification of that line.

Wedi dweud hynny, derbyniaf fod her sicrhau trydanu rheilffordd y De cyn belled ag Abertawe yn ofyniad hollbwysig i iechyd economi’r De yn y dyfodol. Byddwn yn ei gefnogi ef a’i olynwyr yr holl ffordd i sicrhau y bydd Llywodraeth Prydain yn darparu rhywfaint o’r buddsoddiad hwnnw, fel na welir y cynllun yn dod i ben ym Mryste. Byddwn yn gwneud ein rhan yma yn y Cynulliad i annog a sicrhau trydanu’r lein honno’n llawn.

I agree with the Deputy First Minister that commuter hubs such as Cardiff need to be encouraged and strengthened. The resignalling and the infrastructure work between Cogan and Queen Street station is going ahead, but we need to accelerate it. If he had come forward with a vision to say, 'This is how we will do even more’, to ensure that we draw down a national investment as well to encourage the completion of this scheme, I think that we would have been somewhat more assured by his remarks.

Cytunaf â’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog fod angen annog a chryfhau canolfannau cymudo fel Caerdydd. Mae’r gwaith adnewyddu signalau a’r gwaith ar y seilwaith rhwng Cogan a gorsaf Heol y Frenhines yn mynd yn ei flaen, ond mae angen ei gyflymu. Petai wedi dod ymlaen â gweledigaeth i ddweud, 'Dyma sut y byddwn yn gwneud mwy fyth’, i sicrhau ein bod yn denu buddsoddiad cenedlaethol hefyd i annog cwblhau’r cynllun hwn, credaf y byddai ei sylwadau wedi rhoi rhywfaint mwy o sicrwydd inni.

I agree with him that the better management of road use is important, and we will watch with great interest how car-sharing schemes and other measures progress. They can certainly help, changing behaviour and making people more discriminating in their use of cars, and that is to be welcomed. However, it is a part of a wider package and is certainly not the whole answer.

Cytunaf ag ef ei bod yn bwysig rheoli defnyddio ffyrdd yn well, a byddwn yn gwylio gyda diddordeb mawr sut y daw cynlluniau rhannu ceir a mesurau eraill yn eu blaenau. Yn sicr, gallant helpu, gan newid ymddygiad a gwneud i bobl ddefnyddio’u ceir yn ddoethach, ac mae hynny i’w groesawu. Fodd bynnag, mae’n rhan o becyn ehangach, ac yn sicr nid dyma’r ateb cyfan.

Encouraging people to cycle and to walk more whenever possible is important. Often, it is feasible. If there are effective paths for people to walk to work, they will use them. In fact, I have walked to work about twice a week since the barrage path was opened. I have to say, however, that people will question his commitment given that, in his evidence to the Enterprise and Learning Committee, he would not back the committee proposed LCO that was being developed to secure a strategic network of cycle and pedestrian paths.

Mae’n bwysig annog pobl i fynd ar feic ac i gerdded mwy pryd bynnag y bo modd. Yn aml, mae’n ymarferol. Os oes llwybrau effeithiol i bobl gerdded i’r gwaith, byddant yn eu defnyddio. Yn wir, yr wyf fi wedi cerdded i’r gwaith ryw ddwywaith yr wythnos ers agor llwybr y morglawdd. Rhaid dweud, fodd bynnag, y bydd pobl yn cwestiynu ei ymrwymiad wrth gofio nad oedd yn fodlon, yn ei dystiolaeth i’r Pwyllgor Menter a Dysgu, cefnogi LCO arfaethedig y pwyllgor a oedd yn cael ei ddatblygu i sicrhau rhwydwaith strategol o lwybrau beicio a cherdded.

We have seen some interesting measures this afternoon, which we will want to take forward, including our version of the Oyster card. Perhaps I could call it the laverbread card, but I do not know what the best title would be. Of course we welcome that. I am sure that Assembly Members noted, however, that the target for completion of that scheme was 2014. We would have preferred a more immediate response from the Deputy First Minister in encouraging integrated ticketing. Insofar as we are going down that route, however, we welcome it.

Yr ydym wedi gweld mesurau diddorol y prynhawn yma, y byddwn eisiau bwrw ymlaen â hwy, gan gynnwys ein fersiwn ni o’r cerdyn Oyster. Efallai y gallwn ei alw’n gerdyn bara lawr, ond ni wn beth fyddai’r teitl gorau. Wrth gwrs yr ydym yn croesawu hynny. Yr wyf yn siŵr fod Aelodau’r Cynulliad wedi sylwi, fodd bynnag, mai 2014 oedd y targed ar gyfer cwblhau’r cynllun hwnnw. Byddem wedi hoffi ymateb mwy di-oed gan y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog o ran annog tocynnau integredig. I’r graddau yr ydym yn mynd i lawr y ffordd honno, fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn ei groesawu.

I return to where I started. The message this afternoon is that your budget will be cut substantially and by more than the average for other departments, I infer, and the two biggest strategic requirements, certainly for the south-east Wales economy, have just been ditched.

Dychwelaf at y man lle cychwynnais. Y neges y prynhawn yma yw fod eich cyllideb y gael ei chwtogi’n sylweddol ac o fwy na’r cyfartaledd i adrannau eraill, mi gasglaf, ac mae’r ddau ofyniad strategol mwyaf, yn sicr i economi’r de-ddwyrain, newydd gael eu taflu o’r neilltu.

The Deputy First Minister: I suppose that the time when I would have a real exchange across the Chamber with David has arrived. Normally, his ebullient self would come to the fore with proposals, but today, he has shown the hard-headed, real Conservatives that we have come to expect. The truth is that all this pretence that we have heard from Mr Cameron about how they were going to green the UK by investing in renewables, public transport and walking and cycling, has gone. What we now have are the true Conservatives—[Interruption.]

Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog: Mae’n debyg fod yr amser wedi dod imi gael trafodaeth go iawn ar draws y Siambr gyda David. Fel rheol byddai ei bersonoliaeth afieithus yn dod i’r amlwg gyda chynigion, ond heddiw mae wedi dangos y gwir Geidwadwyr pengaled yr ydym wedi dod i’w disgwyl. Y gwir yw bod yr holl ymhonni yr ydym wedi’i glywed gan Mr Cameron am y modd yr oeddent yn mynd i droi’r Deyrnas Unedig yn wyrdd drwy fuddsoddi mewn ynni adnewyddadwy, cludiant cyhoeddus a cherdded a beicio, wedi mynd. Beth sydd gennym yn awr yw’r gwir Geidwadwyr—[Torri ar draws.]

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. Listen to what the Deputy First Minister is saying.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Gwrandewch ar yr hyn y mae’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog yn ei ddweud.

The Deputy First Minister: I listened to David in silence, and I gave him that courtesy. Apart from a little tinkering at the edges, all we heard from David was that the only solution to the problems of transport infrastructure of Wales is to build new roads. In finding today’s economic, environmental and transport solutions, we must be much more imaginative and intelligent in looking at how our transport network needs to develop.

Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog: Gwrandewais ar David yn dawel, a rhoddais y cwrteisi hwnnw iddo. Ac eithrio ychydig o dincran o gwmpas yr ymylon, y cwbl a glywsom gan David oedd mai’r unig ateb i broblemau seilwaith trafnidiaeth Cymru yw adeiladu ffyrdd newydd. Wrth ddod o hyd i atebion o ran yr economi, yr amgylchedd a trafnidiaeth heddiw rhaid inni fod yn llawer mwy dychmygus a deallus wrth ystyried sut y mae angen i’n rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth ddatblygu.

Allow me to dispel some of the myths and put them to bed once and for all. The first myth was that I have had to act like this because there has been a cut in my transport budget. There has not been a single cut in my transport budget, and I have not made any of the decisions announced today because of any cut. That is the case, and that is what I am telling David and all the Conservatives today.

Caniatewch imi chwalu rhai o’r chwedlau a’u bwrw ar eu pen unwaith ac am byth. Y chwedl gyntaf oedd fy mod wedi gorfod gweithredu fel hyn oherwydd cwtogi fy nghyllideb drafnidiaeth. Ni fu dim cwtogi yn fy nghyllideb drafnidiaeth, ac nid wyf wedi gwneud dim o’r penderfyniadau a gyhoeddwyd heddiw oherwydd unrhyw doriad. Dyna yw’r gwir, a dyna yr wyf yn ei ddweud wrth David a’r Ceidwadwyr i gyd heddiw.

Secondly, on the M4, it was never intended for that to be delivered from the Assembly’s core budget. The capital cost of that can only be delivered through a public-private partnership and only at a cost acceptable to the Assembly Government if the road is tolled. Our experience is that, to recover the revenue cost of that scheme, both sections of the M4—the new relief road and the existing part of it—would have to be tolled. No-one wants that to happen. Therefore, given that those were the circumstances and the reasons, I had to look for a sensible alternative. What I have come up with is an imaginative proposal, looking at how we manage the network between junctions 28 and 24, and how we can use alternative routes through the dual carriageway on the Corus land, which is currently not in use, and the southern distributor route linking back to junction 28. Resilience works will also be undertaken on the M4, including the widening of some of the carriageways. That is a substantial programme of investment.

Yn ail, ynglŷn â’r M4, ni fwriadwyd erioed i hynny gael ei gyflawni o gyllideb graidd y Cynulliad. Dim ond drwy bartneriaeth gyhoeddus-breifat y gellir talu cost gyfalaf hynny, a dim ond os codir toll ar y ffordd y gellir gwneud hynny am gost sy’n dderbyniol gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad. Dywed ein profiad ni, os am adennill cost refeniw’r cynllun, y byddai’n rhaid codi toll ar ddwy ran yr M4—y ffordd liniaru newydd a’r rhan ohoni sy’n bodoli eisoes. Nid oes ar neb eisiau i hynny ddigwydd. Felly, gan mai dyna oedd yr amgylchiadau a’r rhesymau, bu’n rhaid imi edrych am ddewis amgen call. Beth yr wyf wedi’i gyflwyno yw cynnig llawn dychymyg sy’n edrych ar yn ffordd y rheolwn y rhwydwaith rhwng cyffyrdd 28 a 24, a sut y gallwn ddefnyddio ffyrdd amgen drwy’r ffordd ddeuol ar dir Corus, nad yw’n cael ei defnyddio ar hyn o bryd, a’r ffordd ddosbarthu ddeheuol sy’n cysylltu’n ôl â chyffordd 28. Gwneir gwaith atgyfnerthu ar yr M4 hefyd, gan gynnwys lledu rhai o’r lonydd cerbyd. Mae hynny’n rhaglen fuddsoddi sylweddol.

David did not mention at all the enhancements to public transport in that area, which will get people out of their cars and onto public transport. They include a network of park-and-ride schemes and new stations where people can leave their cars. I did not hear David congratulate us on that, although he did mention the electrification of the line, albeit very much in a throwaway fashion.

Ni soniodd David o gwbl am y gwelliannau mewn cludiant cyhoeddus yn yr ardal honno, a fydd yn mynd â phobl allan o’u ceir ac ar gludiant cyhoeddus. Maent yn cynnwys rhwydwaith o gynlluniau parcio a theithio a gorsafoedd newydd lle gall pobl adael eu ceir. Ni chlywais David yn ein llongyfarch am hynny, er iddo grybwyll trydanu’r lein, ond mewn ffordd ddigon ffwrdd-â-hi y gwnaeth hynny.

That was David’s main criticism. His second criticism was on the airport link road. However, I have received representations from all political parties asking me not to build that road, and asking why a new road to the airport is needed. All the communities that would have been affected were up in arms over it. Therefore, I had to look at the economic case for building that road, together with the opportunities that would be captured by the airport. I have done the sensible thing. By improving access to the airport by improving Five Mile Lane, working with the Vale of Glamorgan Council, we will also enhance the safety of one of the most dangerous roads in Wales.

Dyna oedd prif feirniadaeth David. Ffordd gyswllt y maes awyr oedd testun ei ail feirniadaeth. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf wedi cael ceisiadau gan bob plaid wleidyddol yn gofyn imi beidio ag adeiladu’r ffordd honno, ac yn gofyn pam y mae angen ffordd newydd i’r maes awyr. Yr oedd pob cymuned y byddai hyn wedi effeithio arnynt wedi eu cythruddo yn ei gylch. Felly, bu’n rhaid imi edrych ar yr achos economaidd dros adeiladu’r ffordd honno, ynghyd â’r cyfleoedd a ddeuai i ran y maes awyr. Yr wyf wedi gwneud y peth call. Drwy wella mynediad i’r maes awyr drwy wella Five Mile Lane, gan gydweithio â Chyngor Bro Morgannwg, byddwn hefyd yn gwella diogelwch un o’r ffyrdd mwyaf peryglus yng Nghymru.

David also failed to mention that one way of addressing the access problems to Cardiff international airport is by improving public transport. We want to make that happen. There will be enhanced bus connections to the airport and extra services by rail. We are looking for intelligent solutions to new problems, and the Conservatives must accept that, in the future, no Government of whatever political complexion can just build roads as a solution. We are beyond that era, and we have to look at ways of integrating transport.

Ni soniodd David ychwaith mai un ffordd i ateb y problemau mynediad i faes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd yw drwy wella cludiant cyhoeddus. Mae arnom eisiau gwneud i hynny ddigwydd. Bydd gwell cysylltiadau bws â’r maes awyr a mwy o wasanaethau trên. Yr ydym yn edrych am atebion deallus i broblemau newydd, a rhaid i’r Ceidwadwyr dderbyn na all yr un Llywodraeth yn y dyfodol, beth bynnag fo’i lliw gwleidyddol, droi at adeiladu ffyrdd fel ateb syml. Mae’r oes honno wedi mynd, a rhaid inni edrych ar ffyrdd i integreiddio trafnidiaeth.

On David’s point about smartcards, I also wish that we could introduce it earlier. If there are ways in which we can do it, we will.

Ynglŷn â phwynt David am gardiau call, byddai’n dda gennyf fi hefyd pe gallem eu cyflwyno’n gynharach. Os oes ffyrdd inni allu gwneud hynny, fe wnawn.

We have found today that the real divide that exists across the Chamber is between the modernisers and the dinosaurs.

Yr ydym wedi darganfod heddiw mai rhwng y moderneiddwyr a’r deinosoriaid y mae’r gwir raniad sy’n bodoli ar draws y Siambr.

3.10 p.m.

Alun Davies: I am responding to this afternoon’s statement on behalf of Welsh Labour. There are several points to welcome and support in the plan that has been outlined to us this afternoon. I welcome the tone that you adopted in outlining your plans for the future of transport in Wales this afternoon, Deputy First Minister. I particularly welcome what you said in response to David Melding’s rather hysterical first speech on this. These are intelligent solutions to new problems. Finding a real balance of future transport priorities is what the Government was elected to do and I am glad to see that it is doing so this afternoon, as well as at other times. The key principles that you outlined in your statement, Deputy First Minister, will be widely supported in the Chamber and elsewhere. I look forward to reading the documentation that will accompany this report and to the debates that we will, no doubt, have on the plan and how we develop transport systems for the future.

Alun Davies: Yr wyf yn ymateb i ddatganiad y prynhawn yma ar ran Llafur Cymru. Mae nifer o bwyntiau i’w croesawu a’u cefnogi yn y cynllun sydd wedi’i amlinellu inni’r prynhawn yma. Croesawaf eich agwedd wrth amlinellu eich cynlluniau ar gyfer dyfodol trafnidiaeth yng Nghymru’r prynhawn yma, Ddirprwy Brif Weinidog. Croesawaf yn arbennig yr hyn a ddywedasoch mewn ymateb i araith gyntaf hysterig braidd David Melding ar hyn. Atebion deallus i broblemau newydd yw’r rhain. Canfod gwir gydbwysedd mewn blaenoriaethau trafnidiaeth i’r dyfodol yw’r hyn yr etholwyd y Llywodraeth i’w wneud ac yr wyf yn falch o weld ei bod yn gwneud hynny’r prynhawn yma, yn ogystal ag ar adegau eraill. Caiff yr egwyddorion allweddol a amlinellwyd gennych yn eich datganiad, Ddirprwy Brif Weinidog, eu cefnogi’n eang yn y Siambr ac mewn mannau eraill. Edrychaf ymlaen at ddarllen y ddogfennaeth a ddaw gyda’r adroddiad hwn ac at y dadleuon a gawn, bid siŵr, ar y cynllun a’r modd y datblygwn systemau trafnidiaeth i’r dyfodol.

Like others, I welcome the emphasis that you place on public transport and on investment in rail lines. The Valley lines are becoming a genuine commuter railway system, which will transform the economy of south Wales, and that will be welcomed across the Valleys and beyond; we certainly welcome it this afternoon. The investment in rail around Cardiff will make life easier for commuters. Every day, tens of thousands of people will have easier lives as a result of the investment that has been announced this afternoon. Everyone should welcome it. At the same time, I am delighted that you announced the dualling of Gowerton bridge to enable faster and more frequent services to and from west Wales, as well. Investment in Gowerton bridge is absolutely critical to the future of rail in west Wales and we welcome it.

Fel eraill, croesawaf y pwyslais a roddwch ar gludiant cyhoeddus ac ar fuddsoddi mewn rheilffyrdd. Mae rheilffyrdd y Cymoedd yn datblygu’n system reilffyrdd cymudo gwirioneddol, a fydd yn trawsnewid economi’r De, a chroesewir hynny ledled y Cymoedd a thu hwnt; yn sicr yr ydym yn ei groesawu’r prynhawn yma. Bydd y buddsoddiad mewn rheilffyrdd o gwmpas Caerdydd yn gwneud bywyd yn haws i gymudwyr. Bob dydd, caiff degau o filoedd o bobl fywydau haws o ganlyniad i’r buddsoddiad sydd wedi’i gyhoeddi’r prynhawn yma. Dylai pawb ei groesawu. Ar yr un pryd, yr wyf wrth fy modd eich bod wedi cyhoeddi deuoli pont Tre-gŵyr i alluogi gwasanaethau cyflymach ac amlach i’r gorllewin ac oddi yno, hefyd. Mae buddsoddi ym mhont Tre-gŵyr yn gwbl allweddol i ddyfodol y rheilffyrdd yn y gorllewin ac fe’i croesawn.

The emphasis on public transport networks, connectivity and integration was fundamental to your statement, and I hope that it will continue to guide you as you develop our policy on this. The Sustainable Travel Towns initiative, the ticketing arrangements, and your commitment to supporting the electrification of the line into Wales from London are absolutely central to our economic future. I was glad to hear you say that you have already met the UK Minister for transport on that. It is essential that that line be electrified, not simply as far as Bristol or Cardiff, but right through to Swansea. That is a critical point. That rail link is a key artery for the whole of the south Wales economy. If it is not electrified, we will begin to lose out and will continue to do so. I hope that your negotiations on that with the UK Government will be successful.

Yr oedd y pwyslais ar rwydweithiau cludiant cyhoeddus, cysylltedd ac integreiddio yn sylfaenol i’ch datganiad, a gobeithio y bydd yn parhau i’ch tywys wrth ichi ddatblygu eich polisi ar hyn. Mae’r fenter Trefi Teithio Cynaliadwy, y trefniadau tocynnau, a’ch ymrwymiad i gefnogi trydanu’r lein i Gymru o Lundain yn gwbl ganolog i’n dyfodol economaidd. Yr oeddwn yn falch eich clywed yn dweud eich bod eisoes wedi cwrdd â Gweinidog trafnidiaeth y Deyrnas Unedig ynglŷn â hynny. Mae’n hanfodol trydanu’r lein honno, nid dim ond cyn belled â Bryste neu Gaerdydd, ond yr holl ffordd i Abertawe. Mae hynny’n bwynt hollbwysig. Mae’r cysylltiad rheilffordd hwnnw’n brif wythïen allweddol i holl economi’r de. Os na chaiff ei drydanu, byddwn yn dechrau colli tir ac yn parhau i wneud. Gobeithio y bydd eich trafodaethau ar hynny â Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig yn llwyddiannus.

The commitment to improving local bus services and the emphasis on road safety, the importance of sustainability and the emphasis on promoting and enhancing economic growth were all key to your statement this afternoon, and I hope that they will remain the key to transport policy in the future. We all recognise that there is and can be a real tension between the aims of achieving sustainability and economic growth, as we have heard already to some extent this afternoon. I hope that you will continue to negotiate your way through those tensions and continue to ensure investment so that we have a sustainable basis for economic growth in this country in the future.

Yr oedd yr ymrwymiad i wella gwasanaethau bysiau lleol a’r pwyslais ar ddiogelwch ffyrdd, pwysigrwydd cynaliadwyedd a’r pwyslais ar hyrwyddo a chynyddu twf economaidd i gyd yn allweddol i’ch datganiad y prynhawn yma, a gobeithio mai’r rhain fydd yr allwedd i bolisi trafnidiaeth o hyd yn y dyfodol. Sylweddolwn i gyd fod ac y gall fod gwir densiwn rhwng amcanion sicrhau cynaliadwyedd a thwf economaidd, fel y clywsom eisoes i ryw raddau’r prynhawn yma. Gobeithio y parhewch i negodi eich ffordd drwy’r tensiynau hynny a pharhau i sicrhau buddsoddiad fel y bydd gennym sylfaen gynaliadwy i dwf economaidd yn y wlad hon yn y dyfodol.

I will conclude with these remarks. I hope that you can reassure us that impact assessments will be carried out whenever there are road developments in Wales. Of the road developments, the M4 improvement and the Cardiff Airport link road will make the headlines in the morning, but I hope that you will continue to ensure that the commitment to the dualling of the Heads of the Valleys road that you repeated this afternoon is right at the top of your agenda. That road is critical to the regeneration of the Heads of the Valleys region. It cannot happen without it and is dependent on it. I hope and expect that you will attempt to bring forward the timetable of that dualling project to ensure that it is delivered not just by 31 December 2020, but as soon as is practically possible. I hope that we will soon receive start times for the concluding elements of that project.

Gorffennaf gyda’r sylwadau hyn. Gobeithio y gallwch roi sicrwydd inni y gwneir asesiadau effaith pryd bynnag y bydd datblygiadau ffyrdd yng Nghymru. O’r datblygiadau ffyrdd, gwelliant yr M4 a ffordd gyswllt Maes Awyr Caerdydd fydd yn hawlio’r penawdau yn y bore, ond gobeithio y parhewch i sicrhau bod yr ymrwymiad i ddeuoli ffordd Blaenau’r Cymoedd, a ailadroddwyd gennych y prynhawn yma, ar frig eich agenda. Mae’r ffordd honno’n hollbwysig i adfywiad rhanbarth Blaenau’r Cymoedd. Ni all ddigwydd hebddi ac mae’n ddibynnol arni. Yr wyf yn gobeithio ac yn disgwyl y ceisiwch symud amserlen y prosiect deuoli hwnnw ymlaen i sicrhau ei gyflawni nid erbyn 31 Rhagfyr 2020 yn unig, ond cyn gynted ag y bo’n ymarferol bosibl. Gobeithio y byddwn yn cael amseroedd y-cychwyn yn fuan ar gyfer elfennau cloi’r prosiect hwnnw.

You said in your statement that a programme of works will be undertaken on the A40 and A477 in west Wales. I hope that you will be able to expand on that in responding to me and also say whether you have any further plans to improve the A40 and A477 road links in Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire.

Dywedasoch yn eich datganiad y byddai rhaglen o waith ar yr A40 a’r A477 yn y gorllewin. Gobeithio y byddwch yn gallu ymhelaethu ar hynny wrth ymateb imi, a dweud hefyd a oes gennych unrhyw gynlluniau pellach i wella cysylltiadau ffordd yr A40 a’r A477 yn sir Benfro a sir Gaerfyrddin.

In welcoming the statement and the transport plan, I hope that you will continue to balance sustainability with economic growth, to ensure that this is not simply a transport plan but a plan that enables the people of Wales to talk to each other, to commute to work, to continue to grow as a country and to enable us to sustain economic growth and build prosperity for the future.

Wrth groesawu’r datganiad a’r cynllun trafnidiaeth, yr wyf yn gobeithio y byddwch yn parhau i gydbwyso cynaliadwyedd a thwf economaidd, er mwyn sicrhau nad cynllun trafnidiaeth yn unig yw hwn, ond yn hytrach gynllun sy’n galluogi pobl Cymru i siarad â’i gilydd, teithio i’r gwaith, parhau i dyfu fel gwlad a’n galluogi i gynnal twf economaidd a chreu ffyniant ar gyfer y dyfodol.

The Deputy First Minister: Thank you for those comments, Alun. I was particularly pleased with the comments about the rail services. You mentioned the increase in passenger numbers on the Valley lines. We have done, and we will continue to do, a great deal of work to strengthen capacity on those Valley lines so that we can have more services and longer trains, now that the platforms have been lengthened in a number of areas. As a result of the powers given to the Assembly in 2006, we are able to say for the first time that substantial investment is now happening in the rail infrastructure. This will enable even faster, better and more frequent services, not only around Cardiff—important as they are—but also around the Gowerton viaduct, which you mentioned. We are able to dual the track there, as well as the section between Wrexham and Chester, and beyond to Shrewsbury. All that is in hand and investment is secured for it.

Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog: Diolch ichi am y sylwadau hynny, Alun. Yr oeddwn wedi fy mhlesio’n benodol gyda’r sylwadau am y gwasanaethau rheilffyrdd. Soniech am y cynnydd yn nifer y teithwyr ar reilffyrdd y Cymoedd. Yr ydym wedi gwneud llawer iawn o waith i gryfhau capasiti ar y rheilffyrdd hynny yn y Cymoedd, ac yr ydym yn parhau i wneud hynny, fel y gallwn gael rhagor o wasanaethau a threnau hwy, gan fod y platfformau’n awr wedi eu hymestyn mewn llawer ardal. O ganlyniad i’r pwerau a roddwyd i’r Cynulliad yn 2006, gallwn ddweud am y tro cyntaf fod buddsoddi sylweddol yn awr yn y seilwaith rheilffyrdd. Bydd hyn yn galluogi gwasanaethau amlach, gwell a chyflymach fyth, nid yn unig o amgylch Caerdydd—er mor bwysig ydynt—ond hefyd o amgylch traphont Tre-gŵyr, a grybwyllwyd gennych. Gallwn ddeuoli’r cledrau yno, yn ogystal ag yn y rhan rhwng Wrecsam a Chaer, a thu hwnt i Amwythig. Gofalwyd am hynny oll, ac mae buddsoddiad wedi’i sicrhau ar ei gyfer.

It is important to keep up the pressure on electrification. I am pleased to see that there is all-party support for that. The key is to keep up the pressure. However, I do not want to see Wales lose out from the high-speed development network. That is why, at the suggestion of Lord Adonis, I will be meeting the chairman of the new HS2 Ltd, to see whether we can get involved in the discussions to establish that network when it eventually comes to Wales. That is crucial for the future, both in terms of the environmental benefits and the important economic benefits that it will bring. Improving the bus services and local safety are also important.

Mae’n bwysig cadw’r pwysau ar drydaneiddio. Yr wyf yn falch gweld bod yr holl bleidiau’n cefnogi hynny. Yr allwedd yw cadw’r pwysau. Er hynny, nid oes arnaf eisiau gweld Cymru’n cael ei hepgor o’r rhwydwaith datblygu cyflymder uchel. Dyna pam y byddaf, ar awgrym yr Arglwydd Adonis, yn cwrdd â chadeirydd yr HS2 Ltd newydd, i weld a allwn fod yn rhan o’r trafodaethau i sefydlu’r rhwydwaith hwnnw pan ddaw i Gymru yn y pen draw. Mae hynny’n hanfodol ar gyfer y dyfodol, o ran y manteision amgylcheddol a’r manteision economaidd pwysig y bydd yn eu dwyn. Mae gwella’r gwasanaethau bws a diogelwch lleol hefyd yn bwysig.

I can give an assurance about the Heads of the Valleys. I have made it clear that it is a programme where we are persuaded that a new road is the right option. We are not saying that we will not be building new roads; improving the Heads of the Valleys road is important for the regeneration of the area. We are committed to that, which is why I have kept to the programme that I inherited and will keep to the timetable that was set out in the two documents that preceded my appointment as Minister, namely  'Heads We Win’ and 'Turning Heads’, which both indicated that we should aim for completion in 2020. That is what I intend to do.

Gallaf roi sicrwydd am Flaenau’r Cymoedd. Yr wyf wedi dweud yn glir ei bod yn rhaglen lle cawn ein darbwyllo mai ffordd newydd yw’r dewis iawn. Nid ydym yn dweud na fyddwn yn adeiladu ffyrdd newydd; mae gwella ffordd Blaenau’r Cymoedd yn bwysig i adfywio’r ardal. Yr ydym wedi ymrwymo i hynny, a dyna pam yr wyf wedi cadw at y rhaglen a etifeddais, a byddaf yn cadw at yr amserlen a gafodd ei gosod allan yn y ddwy ddogfen a oedd yn rhagflaenu fy mhenodiad yn Weinidog, sef 'Blaenau’r Cymoedd ar y Blaen’ a 'Syniadau Blaengar’. Yr oedd y naill a’r llall yn nodi y dylem anelu at gwblhau yn 2020. Dyna y bwriadaf ei wneud.

The A477 and the A40 are important roads in relation to access to the ports of west Wales, and I am committed to whatever improvements I can bring about. I know that there has been considerable pressure from local Members and others to improve the A40 to dual-carriageway standard. I am not persuaded that the case has been made for dualling at this stage, but I have made it clear with my officials that any improvements that are made to the A40 will allow the dualling option, should a future Minister find that there is a compelling case to do so. All in all, this is a good deal for all parts of Wales.

Mae’r A477 a’r A40 yn ffyrdd pwysig o safbwynt mynediad i borthladdoedd y gorllewin, ac yr wyf wedi ymrwymo i ba bynnag welliannau y gallaf eu sicrhau. Gwn fod cryn bwysau gan Aelodau lleol ac eraill i godi’r A40 i safon ffordd ddeuol. Nid wyf wedi fy narbwyllo bod dadl gref wedi ei chyflwyno dros ddeuoli ar hyn o bryd, ond yr wyf wedi dweud yn glir wrth fy swyddogion y bydd unrhyw welliannau ar yr A40 yn caniatáu’r dewis ddeuoli, petai Gweinidog yn y dyfodol yn gweld bod dadl gref dros wneud hynny. Drwyddi draw, mae hon yn fargen dda i bob rhan o Gymru.

Michael German: I regret that there is one Member is not present today, and that is Andrew Davies. He will be pleased with one of today’s announcements, but not so pleased perhaps with another. The first is that his budget for next year has now been predicted, and the Deputy First Minister’s budget for next year, and beyond, has not been affected. I welcome that comment, and Andrew Davies may, perhaps, welcome it as well.

Michael German: Mae’n resyn gennyf fod un Aelod nad yw’n bresennol heddiw, ac Andrew Davies yw hwnnw. Bydd yn falch o un o’r cyhoeddiadau heddiw, ond nid mor falch o’r llall, hwyrach. Y cyntaf yw bod ei gyllideb ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf yn awr wedi ei rhagfynegi, ac nad effeithiwyd ar gyllideb y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf, a thu hwnt. Croesawaf y sylw hwnnw, a bydd Andrew Davies, efallai, hefyd yn ei groesawu.

3.20 p.m.

The second reason why I think that he ought to have been here is that he was the person who announced to the Chamber that the M4 relief road, in his view and the view of the entire Labour Party at the Assembly, when it had a near majority—it sometimes had a majority—should go ahead. I wonder whether we are seeing the conversion of Labour Members to a new agenda. Ministers may perhaps want to respond to that.

Yr ail reswm pam y credaf y dylai fod wedi bod yma yw mai ef oedd y sawl a gyhoeddodd yn y Siambr y dylai ffordd liniaru’r M4, yn ei farn ef a barn y Blaid Lafur gyfan yn y Cynulliad, pan oedd ganddi fwyafrif bron—yr oedd ganddi weithiau fwyafrif—fynd ei blaen. Tybed a ydym yn gweld yr Aelodau Llafur yn troi at agenda newydd? Efallai y bydd y Gweinidog yn dymuno ymateb i hynny.

The problem that I see with this document as a whole is that it is largely a menu without prices. What we see is ambition that goes beyond 2011, to 2014. That is a period in which there will be an election, in which we know that, unless there are huge tax increases, we will have a massive shrinkage of our budget, and in which we will see the pressures that were announced in Parliament on the UK budget bearing down upon us. While I can believe that things will happen before 2011—or, rather, in the next 12 months or so—you will understand why I have some scepticism about projects that are phased, and particularly those for which it is said that they will start in 2014. I always worry about that phrase, as it is at the end of a five-year period.

Y broblem a welaf gyda’r ddogfen hon yn ei chyfanrwydd yw ei bod i raddau helaeth yn fwydlen heb brisiau. Yr hyn a welwn yw uchelgais sy’n mynd y tu hwnt i 2011, hyd at 2014. Mae hwnnw’n gyfnod pan fydd etholiad, pan wyddom y gwelwn ein cyllideb, oni bai bod cynnydd aruthrol yn y dreth, yn crebachu’n aruthrol ac y gwelwn y pwysau a gyhoeddwyd yn y Senedd ar gyllideb y DU yn gwasgu arnom. Er y gallaf gredu y bydd pethau’n digwydd cyn 2011—neu, yn hytrach, yn y 12 mis nesaf fwy neu lai—byddwch yn deall pam yr wyf braidd yn amheus am brosiectau a gyflwynir fesul cam, ac yn enwedig y rheini y dywedir y byddant yn cychwyn yn 2014. Yr wyf bob amser yn poeni am yr ymadrodd hwnnw, oherwydd ei fod ar ddiwedd cyfnod pum mlynedd.

In that context, I must talk first about the Heads of the Valleys road. There are seven sections the Heads of the Valleys road to be dualled, two of which have been completed. It depends on whether you talk about two sections being together, but according to the Assembly Government’s website, there are now five sections to be dualled. We understand, from this document, that the first section will be dualled before 2014, and that the dualling of the next section will be started by then. The word 'started’ is a nice word to be used in the context of statements; does it mean that the first digger will appear on the site, or does it mean that the drawings and the acquisition of land—the pre-work—will begin at the end of 2014? The question must remain as to whether the target of completing the remaining five sections, when only one is to be completed within the next five years, will be completed within the following six years. One section will be done in five years, and then four sections in six years. Forgive me, but that beggars belief.

Yn y cyd-destun hwnnw, rhaid imi siarad yn gyntaf am ffordd Blaenau’r Cymoedd. Mae saith rhan o ffordd Blaenau’r Cymoedd sydd i’w deuoli, a dwy o’r rheini wedi’u cwblhau. Mae’n dibynnu ar y cwestiwn a ydych yn sôn am ddwy ran sydd gyda’i gilydd, ond yn ôl gwefan Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, mae yna’n bum rhan i’w deuoli. Deallwn, o’r ddogfen hon, y caiff y rhan gyntaf ei deuoli cyn 2014, ac y bydd gwaith deuoli’r rhan nesaf wedi cychwyn erbyn hynny. Mae’r gair 'cychwyn’ yn air braf i’w ddefnyddio yng nghyd-destun datganiadau; a yw’n golygu y bydd y tyrchwr cyntaf yn ymddangos ar y safle, ynteu a yw’n golygu y bydd y dyluniadau a chaffael y tir—y rhag-waith—yn cychwyn ddiwedd 2014? Erys y cwestiwn a gyrhaeddir y targed o gwblhau’r pum rhan sy’n weddill, pan nad oes ond un i gael ei chwblhau yn y pum mlynedd nesaf, cyn pen y chwe blynedd ganlynol. Gwneir un rhan mewn pum mlynedd, ac yna pedair rhan mewn chwe blynedd. Maddewch imi, ond mae hynny’n gwbl anghredadwy.

On the Ebbw Vale railway, I was surprised to see again the economic use of words in relation to there being a service from Ebbw Vale to Newport in 2011. The Deputy First Minister will know from the statements that I have had from the First Minister and others that that means one of two things: either a reduced service, or cancelled services, to Cardiff from Ebbw Vale, or that he will dual the line between Cross Keys and Llanhilleth. That is the only way that the trains can go up the line to pass each other in order to go to two places, namely Newport and Cardiff. That was the advice that you got from Network Rail, and there are no other feasible alternatives. That was the advice that you received. Could you be honest with people, Deputy First Minister, and tell us whether there will be services running to Newport at the expense of services to Cardiff, or will there be services running in both directions, to both Cardiff and Newport, at the same time?

O safbwynt rheilffordd Glynebwy, yr oedd yn syndod imi weld unwaith eto eiriau economaidd yn cael eu defnyddio y bydd gwasanaeth o Lynebwy i Gasnewydd yn 2011. Bydd y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog yn gwybod o’r datganiadau a gefais gan y Prif Weinidog ac eraill fod hynny’n golygu un o ddau beth: naill ai gwasanaeth gostyngol, ynteu wasanaethau wedi’u canslo, i Gaerdydd o Lynebwy, neu y bydd yn deuoli’r llinell rhwng Cross Keys a Llanhiledd. Dyna’r unig ffordd y gall y trenau fynd i fyny’r llinell i fynd heibio’i gilydd er mwyn mynd i ddau le, sef Casnewydd a Chaerdydd. Dyna oedd y cyngor a gawsoch gan Network Rail, ac nid oes dim dewisiadau amgen ymarferol eraill. Dyna oedd y cyngor a gawsoch. A allech fod yn onest gyda phobl, Ddirprwy Brif Weinidog, a dweud wrthym a fydd gwasanaethau’n rhedeg i Gasnewydd ar draul gwasanaethau i Gaerdydd, ynteu a ffydd gwasanaethau’n rhedeg i’r ddau gyfeiriad, i Gaerdydd ac i Gasnewydd, ar yr un pryd?

You say in your statement that you have accepted most of the views of your advisory group. Could you share with us which parts of the advice of your advisory group you did not accept, and those on which you have based your decision? It would be interesting for us to know where and when that decision was taken.

Dywedwch yn eich datganiad eich bod wedi derbyn y rhan fwyaf o safbwyntiau eich grŵp cynghori. A allech ddweud wrthym pa rannau o gyngor eich grŵp cynghori nad oeddech yn eu derbyn, a’r rheini yr ydych wedi seilio’ch penderfyniad arnynt? Byddai’n ddiddorol inni wybod ymhle a pha bryd y gwnaethpwyd y penderfyniad hwnnw.

Insofar as the M4 relief road has been the big loser in your statement, I wonder why it has taken so long, given all the statements that you have made, to make that decision. We were told that funding would not be possible in any current budget, so why is it that we had to wait so long? The alternatives that you have proposed were on the agenda five years ago and were possible five years ago. So, why is it that we do not see concrete proposals in this document? There are proposals for new stations—of course there are—but where is the new station at Ponthir? Where is the new station north of the Gaer? Where is the new station that will be developed in order to create a half hourly service to Abergavenny? Where is the redevelopment of the Severn tunnel junction? Where are all these in this document? We are just told that there will be new stations. In other words, there will be some more planning. Surely, if you have had that intention in your mind, and if you have known that this was going to be the case—that this was going to be too expensive and that we were going to ditch it—the alternatives should have been put in place early enough.

I’r graddau mai ffordd liniaru’r M4 sydd fwyaf ar ei cholled yn eich datganiad, credaf tybed pam y mae wedi cymryd cyhyd, o gofiio’r holl ddatganiadau a wnaethoch, i wneud y penderfyniad hwnnw. Dywedwyd wrthym na fyddai cyllid yn bosibl mewn unrhyw gyllideb bresennol, felly, pam y bu’n rhaid inni aros cyhyd? Yr oedd y dewisiadau amgen yr ydych wedi’u cynnig ar yr agenda bum mlynedd yn ôl. Felly, pam na welwn gynigion cadarn yn y ddogfen hon? Mae yna gynigion ar gyfer gorsafoedd newydd—wrth gwrs bod—ond ble mae’r orsaf newydd ym Mhont-hir? Ble mae’r orsaf newydd i’r gogledd o’r Gaer? Ble mae’r orsaf newydd a gaiff ei datblygu i greu gwasanaeth bob hanner awr i’r Fenni? Ble mae ailddatblygiad gorsaf twnnel afon Hafren? Ble mae’r rhain i gyd yn y ddogfen hon? Dywedir wrthym yn unig y bydd gorsafoedd newydd. Mewn geiriau eraill, bydd rhagor o gynllunio. Siawns, os bu’r bwriad hwnnw yn eich meddwl, ac os gwyddoch mai fel hyn y byddai—fod hyn yn mynd i fod yn rhy ddrud a’n bod yn mynd i’w roi o’r neilltu—y dylai’r dewisiadau amgen fod wedi eu sefydlu’n ddigon cynnar.

What it means is that all that planning and all that work with Network Rail will have to go on, and we will still not have those increased services in the near future. So, when you talk about two years with regard to support around Newport, I wonder whether you really mean two years, or whether you mean that, by that time, some changes will have been made to the traffic signalling on the M4 so that the variation in speed can take place and that that will be about it. So, perhaps you can tell us: by 2011, what definite changes will have happened for the people of south-east Wales in and around Newport? I cannot read that from what you have said.

Yr hyn y mae’n ei olygu yw y bydd yn rhaid i’r holl gynllunio hwnnw a’r holl waith hwnnw gyda Network Rail barhau, ac ni fydd y gwasanaethau cynyddol hynny gennym er hynny yn y dyfodol agos. Felly, pan soniwch am ddwy flynedd o safbwynt cefnogaeth o amgylch Casnewydd, tybed a ydych yn golygu dwy flynedd mewn gwirionedd, ynteu a ydych yn golygu, erbyn yr amser hwnnw, y bydd rhai newidiadau wedi eu gwneud ar y signalau traffig ar yr M4 fel y gall yr amrywiad mewn cyflymder ddigwydd, a dyna’i gyd, yn fras? Felly, efallai y gallwch ddweud wrthym: erbyn 2011, pa newidiadau pendant a fydd wedi digwydd ar gyfer pobl y de ddwyrain yng Nghasnewydd a’r cyffiniau? Ni allaf ddarllen hynny o’r hyn yr ydych wedi’i ddweud.

I welcome your statement on the electrification of the line and the connection to the high-speed network. This has been on the agenda for as long as I have been in politics. An electrified railway was promised by 2001 in fact, and it has been on the agenda for many decades. It is a campaign that is long overdue, and it is something on which the whole Assembly will support you. At the same time, given that you are taking this long-term perspective and taking the argument to the Government in London, I wonder why you have not taken the argument to the Government in London about what we do about the two Severn crossings. It is likely that both will be put back into public ownership within the timescale that we are talking about—by 2020. What is the intention of Government within the timescale? Is it the intention to seek to have them within public ownership without any tolls at all, thereby removing the opportunity for anyone to say that there is a tax on coming in to Wales? I also note that there is no obligation in the document to say that you are going to make life easier for people coming in to Wales by allowing them to pay the toll by credit card or other methods to ensure swift admission. I hope that the Deputy First Minister will not omit to take on board those proposals.

Croesawaf eich datganiad ar drydaneiddio’r llinell a’r cysylltiad â’r rhwydwaith cyflymder uchel. Mae hwn wedi bod ar yr agenda ers i mi fod mewn gwleidyddiaeth. Addawyd rheilffordd wedi’i thrydaneiddio erbyn 2001, mewn gwirionedd, a bu ar yr agenda ers degawdau lawer. Mae’n ymgyrch hir-ddisgwyliedig, ac mae’n rhywbeth y bydd y Cynulliad cyfan yn eich cefnogi yn ei gylch. Ar yr un pryd, o gofio’ch bod yn cymryd y safbwynt hirdymor hwn ac yn mynd â’r ddadl at y Llywodraeth yn Llundain, yr wyf yn meddwl tybed pam nad ydych wedi mynd â’r ddadl at y Llywodraeth yn Llundain ynghylch yr hyn y dylem ei wneud ynglŷn â dwy bont Hafren? Mae’r ddwy’n debygol o fynd yn ôl i berchnogaeth gyhoeddus o fewn yr amserlen yr ydym yn sôn amdani—erbyn 2020. Beth yw bwriad y Llywodraeth yn yr amserlen? Ai’r bwriad yw ceisio’u cael i berchnogaeth gyhoeddus heb ddim tollau o gwbl, gan ddileu’r cyfle yn sgil hynny i unrhyw un ddweud bod treth ar ddod i mewn i Gymru? Sylwaf hefyd nad oes dim rhwymedigaeth yn y ddogfen i ddweud y byddwch yn gwneud bywyd yn haws i bobl sy’n dod i mewn i Gymru drwy ganiatáu iddynt dalu’r doll â cherdyn credyd neu ddulliau eraill i sicrhau eu bod yn dod i mewn yn gyflym. Gobeithio na fydd y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog yn hepgor rhoi ystyriaeth lawn i’r cynigion hynny.

We welcome anything that deals with bus and railway transport, although I wish that we had more concrete plans than are in this document. I look forward to their arrival. The issue that we face is the ability for many people to be able to access a bus service, so I welcome the view that we should improve community transport. Perhaps the Deputy First Minister can assure us that all those entitled to concessionary travel will be able to use the passes on the new community services that he is proposing, because that would make a big difference to parts of rural Wales.

Yr ydym yn croesawu unrhyw beth sy’n delio â thrafnidiaeth bysiau a rheilffyrdd, er ei bod yn resyn gennyf nad oes gennym gynlluniau mwy cadarn nag a geir yn y ddogfen hon. Edrychaf ymlaen i’w gweld yn dod i law. Y mater a wynebwn yw’r gallu i lawer o bobl gael mynediad i wasanaeth bws, felly, croesawaf y farn y dylem wella cludiant cymunedol. Efallai y gallai’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog ein sicrhau y bydd pawb sydd â hawl i deithio am ddim yn gallu defnyddio’r pasys ar y gwasanaethau cymunedol newydd y mae’n eu cynnig, oherwydd byddai hynny’n gwneud gwahaniaeth mawr i rannau o’r Gymru wledig.

In conclusion, I ask you, Deputy First Minister, to advise us on whether your budget is approved and sacrosanct for the coming year, as you announced just now, or for the next two years until 2011. I am sure that we would all be pleased to know.

I gloi, gofynnaf ichi, Ddirprwy Brif Weinidog, ddweud wrthym a yw eich cyllideb wedi’i chymeradwyo ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf ac na chaiff ei newid, fel yr ydych wedi ei ydych wedi’i gyhoeddi’n awr, neu am y ddwy flynedd nesaf tan 2011. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddem i gyd yn falch cael gwybod.

The Deputy First Minister: I will begin at the end of those questions, where he talked about the budget. 'Yes’ and 'yes’ are the answers. We have not actually started the budget negotiations for 2011, as I think you are aware, Mike. Those negotiations will obviously happen next year. We are currently in the process of setting the budget for 2010-11. With regard to 2011-12, there will be a new round of negotiations, but insofar as my transport budget is concerned, I have not had to revise my programme in any way because of any cuts in transport budgets, so I think that I can put that to rest.

Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog: Dechreuaf ar ddiwedd y cwestiynau hynny, pan siaradodd am y gyllideb. 'Ydy’ ac 'ydy’ yw’r atebion. Nid ydym mewn gwirionedd wedi dechrau’r trafodaethau ar y gyllideb ar gyfer 2011, fel y credaf y gwyddoch, Mike. Bydd y trafodaethau hynny, wrth gwrs, yn digwydd flwyddyn nesaf. Ar hyn o bryd, yr ydym wrthi’n pennu’r gyllideb ar gyfer 2010-11. O safbwynt 2011-12, bydd cylch newydd o drafodaethau, ond cyn belled ag mae fy nghyllideb drafnidiaeth i yn y cwestiwn, nid wyf wedi gorfod adolygu fy rhaglen mewn unrhyw fodd oherwydd unrhyw doriadau mewn cyllidebau trafnidiaeth. Felly, credaf y gallaf dawelu’r si honno.

Wrth wrando ar Mike yr oeddwn yn teimlo fel pe na bai erioed wedi bod yn y Llywodraeth. Cofiaf mai yn 2002 y bu’r flaenraglen gefnffyrdd gyntaf, pan oedd ef yn Weinidog, mi gredaf.  Bydd yn gwybod o’i brofiad fel Gweinidog fod y flaenraglen gefnffyrdd mewn tri cham.

3.30 p.m.

The first phase took the programme up to 2005, the second phase was up to 2009, and the third phase was beyond that. Therefore, when he was a member of Government, he took exactly the same decision as I have taken now. It is almost as though he has quite conveniently forgotten that.

In relation to the M4, I think that circumstances since 2004 have changed, Mike, in a number of ways. The first change, of course, is that the current valuation of the road is £1 billion, whereas in 2004 it was estimated to be £340 million, which is a slight increase in a proposal to build a road. Secondly, we now have much more experience of the tolling on the M6. Those circumstances have changed. It is right that every government reflects on a decision that it makes in the light of the information that it has at the time. I think that that is perfectly appropriate. The decision on the M4 reflects the current circumstances.

I have already said that the Ebbw Vale railway system is in the rail forward programme, and I can give the assurance that that is the Government’s firm intention.

In relation to the ministerial advisory group, the document has now been made public. There were three recommendations that I felt I was unable accept. Two of those were in relation to proposals on railways, where I made it clear that I wanted to continue to invest in the existing railway services. The third recommendation—which was an interesting proposal—suggested that I should take over the transport responsibilities of local authorities, which I felt that I did not want to countenance at this stage. I am sure that the Minister for Social Justice and Local Government may well have a view on that. Those were the three recommendations that I was not able to accept.

Mewn cysylltiad â grŵp cynghori’r gweinidog, mae’r ddogfen bellach ar gael i’r cyhoedd. Yr oedd tri argymhelliad y teimlwn na allwn eu derbyn. Yr oedd dau ohonynt mewn cysylltiad â chynigion ynghylch rheilffyrdd, ac eglurais fy mod am barhau i fuddsoddi yn y gwasanaethau rheilffyrdd presennol. Awgrymai’r trydydd argymhelliad—a oedd yn gynnig diddorol— y dylwn gymryd cyfrifoldebau trafnidiaeth awdurdodau lleol, a theimlwn nad oedd arnaf eisiau wynebu hynny ar hyn o bryd. Yr wyf yn sicr y gall fod gan y Gweinidog dros Gyfiawnder Cymdeithasol a Llywodraeth Leol farn ar hynny. Dyna oedd y tri argymhelliad na allwn eu derbyn.

I was able to accept all of the group’s proposals in respect of the roads programme, and I was also able to accept the vast majority of the recommendations in relation to other sections of public transport.

Yr oeddwn yn gallu derbyn holl gynigion y grŵp mewn cysylltiad â’r rhaglen ffyrdd, ac yr oeddwn hefyd yn gallu derbyn y mwyafrif llethol o’r argymhellion mewn perthynas ag adrannau eraill o gludiant cyhoeddus.

I am not quite sure why Mike was castigating me for taking so long to make a decision on the M4. He will know the process in Government. Sets of proposals have to be worked out. Interestingly enough, if we felt that the M4 relief road would not go ahead, we would have to come up with a programme of investment in the road that met the concerns that people in the past had identified. We were working through those programmes, and it was only when we felt able to put that programme together that we were in a position to make the announcement.

Nid wyf yn gwbl sicr pam yr oedd Mike yn fy ngheryddu am gymryd cyhyd i wneud penderfyniad ynghylch yr M4. Bydd yn gyfarwydd â’r broses mewn Llywodraeth. Rhaid trefnu setiau o gynigion. Yn ddiddorol ddigon, petaem yn teimlo na fyddai ffordd liniaru’r M4 yn mynd rhagddi, byddai’n rhaid inni gyflwyno rhaglen o fuddsoddi yn y ffordd a fyddai’n ateb y pryderon yr oedd pobl wedi’u nodi yn y gorffennol. Yr oeddem yn gweithio drwy’r rhaglenni hynny, a phan deimlem y gallem ddwyn y rhaglen honno ynghyd yn unig yr oeddem mewn sefyllfa i wneud y datganiad.     

I was interested in Mike’s comments on electrification and I very much welcome the fact that we now have all-party support for that particular initiative. Although that may have been discussed for many years, I detect that this is the first real opportunity that we have had to do something about it. The Secretary of State for Transport is very committed to investment in railways and I am sure that he will have interesting discussions with the Treasury in order to secure the funding. I know that he wants to see the programme go forward, and we will give him all the support that we can in that respect.

Yr oedd gennyf ddiddordeb yn sylwadau Mike ar drydanu, a chroesawaf yn fawr y ffaith fod gennym bellach gefnogaeth yr holl bleidiau i’r fenter arbennig honno. Er i hynny gael ei drafod, efallai, dros nifer o flynyddoedd, tybiaf mai hwn yw’r cyfle cyntaf go iawn sydd wedi dod i’n rhan i wneud rhywbeth ynglŷn ag ef. Mae’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Drafnidiaeth wedi ymrwymo’n llwyr i fuddsoddi mewn rheilffyrdd, ac yr wyf yn sicr y bydd yn cael trafodaethau diddorol gyda’r Trysorlys i sicrhau’r cyllid. Gwn ei fod am weld y rhaglen yn mynd rhagddi, a byddwn yn rhoi iddo yr holl gefnogaeth sydd o fewn ein gallu yn y cyswllt hwnnw.  

The reason why there is nothing in the transport plan about the Severn crossings is because it is a non-devolved issue. I think that the Department for Transport would have something to say if we included in our transport plan matters that are outwith our competence. Likewise, I would not be particularly pleased if the Department for Transport included matters relating to Wales in its document without consulting us. However, I can assure you that representations have been made to ensure that people can pay by credit card. Discussions are also ongoing about the way in which the tolls on the Severn tunnel will operate once the franchise comes to an end. Those discussions are ongoing, but they are not concluded.

Y rheswm pam nad oes dim yn y cynllun trafnidiaeth am groesfannau Hafren yw ei fod yn fater sydd heb ei ddatganoli. Credaf y byddai gan yr Adran Drafnidiaeth rywbeth i’w ddweud petaem yn cynnwys yn ein cynllun trafnidiaeth faterion sydd y tu allan i’n cymhwysedd. Yn yr un modd, ni fyddwn yn arbennig o fodlon petai’r Adran Drafnidiaeth yn cynnwys materion yn ymwneud â Chymru yn ei dogfen hi heb ymgynghori â ni. Fodd bynnag, gallaf eich sicrhau bod sylwadau wedi’u gwneud i sicrhau y gall pobl dalu drwy gerdyn credyd. Mae trafodaethau ar y gweill hefyd ynghylch y modd y bydd y tollau ar dwnnel Hafren yn gweithredu pan ddaw’r fasnachfraint i ben. Mae’r trafodaethau hynny’n digwydd yn rheolaidd, ond nid ydynt wedi dod i ben.

Gareth Jones: Croesawaf y datganiad hwn a hoffwn longyfarch y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog ar y gwaith paratoi amlwg a wnaed. A wyf wedi darllen yn iawn, Ddirprwy Brif Weinidog, fod hwn yn gynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol? Cymeraf mai cynllun cenedlaethol ydyw, ond, o wrando ar y Ceidwadwyr, sydd i fod yn Geidwadwyr Cymreig, y cyfan yr wyf wedi ei glywed hyd yma yw cyfeiriadau at Gasnewydd, yr M4, a’r ffordd gyswllt i Faes Awyr Caerdydd. Aeth Mike German â ni cyn belled i’r gogledd â Glynebwy, ond yr wyf yn digwydd cynrychioli Aberconwy, sydd rhywle i’r gogledd o Ferthyr Tudful. Yr wyf yn eich llongyfarch ar gynllun sy’n wirioneddol genedlaethol, un yr ydym wedi hir ymaros amdano yng Nghymru, sy’n rhoi sylw i bob cymuned drwy Gymru benbaladr, o Fôn i Fynwy ac o sir Benfro i sir y Fflint. Felly, hoffwn eich llongyfarch chi a Llywodraeth Cymru’n Un am gymryd o ddifrif yr anfanteision a’r problemau dybryd sydd gennym yn ein cymunedau—ac nid dim ond yn ardal Caerdydd a Chasnewydd. Yr ydych wedi bod yn llawer mwy eangfrydig ac wedi cydnabod bod gwaith i’w wneud i integreiddio’r system cludiant a thrafnidiaeth yr ydym yn dyheu amdani yng Nghymru

Gareth Jones: I welcome this statement and I congratulate the Deputy First Minister on the obvious preparation work that has been done. Have I read correctly, Deputy First Minister, that this is a national transport plan? I take it that it is a national plan. However, having listened to the Conservatives, who are meant to be Welsh Conservatives, all I have heard up to now are references to Newport, the M4, and the link road to Cardiff Airport. Mike German took us as far north as Ebbw Vale, but I happen to represent Aberconwy, which is somewhat to the north of Merthyr Tydfil. I congratulate you on a plan which is genuinely national, one that we have long waited for in Wales, and which gives due attention to every community the length and breadth of Wales, from Anglesey to Monmouth, and from Pembrokeshire to Flintshire. Therefore, I congratulate you and the One Wales Government on taking seriously the dire problems we have in our communities—not only in the Cardiff and Newport areas. You have been far more broadminded and have acknowledged that there is work to be done to integrate the haulage and transport systems, which we long for in Wales.

Yr wyf yn eich llongyfarch am ddwyn sylw i bwysigrwydd hygyrchedd i wasanaethau cymdeithasol, addysg, ac iechyd. Dyna yw’r system integredig yr ydym yn dyheu amdani yng Nghymru, nid system sydd wedi ei chyfyngu i symudiadau o’r gorllewin i’r dwyrain. Rhaid inni feddwl yn genedlaethol—dyna’r ffordd i ddatblygu ein heconomi a phopeth arall sy’n dod yn sgîl hynny.

Yr wyf hefyd yn eich llongyfarch nid yn unig ar ystyried y cymunedau hynny yn ddaearyddol, ond ar ystyried pob dull o deithio. Mae’r amrywiol ddulliau teithio a’r ffordd yr ydych yn mynd ati i annog llai o ddefnydd o’r car a mwy o ddefnydd o drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, cerdded a seiclo yn bwysig ar gyfer y dyfodol. Elfen bwysig arall yw eich bod yn dangos nad ydym yn hunanol. Yr ydych yn ystyried y cymunedau fel y maent heddiw a’r profiad o fyw mewn rhannau o Gymru lle mae’n anodd symud o le i le. Yr ydych hefyd yn ystyried y cymunedau i’r dyfodol. Yr ydych yn ystyried o ddifrif y newid yn yr hinsawdd a’r hyn y mae hynny’n ei olygu o ran paratoi ar gyfer y dyfodol.

I also congratulate you not only on considering those communities geographically, but also on considering all modes of transport. The variety of modes of transport and your approach to encouraging making less use of the car and more use of public transport, walking and cycling are important for the future. Another vital element is that you have shown that we are not self-centred. You consider communities as they are today and the experience of living in parts of Wales where it is difficult to move from place to place, but you also consider the communities of the future. You give serious consideration to climate change and to what that means in preparing for the future.

Yr wyf yn eich llongyfarch ar gynllun sy’n codi nifer o bethau inni eu hystyried yn ddwys. Hoffwn ofyn un cwestiwn. Dywedasoch fod angen inni reoli ein ffyrdd a’r defnydd o’n ffyrdd yn llawer gwell. Yn ddiweddar, gwyddoch ein bod wedi cael y maniffesto ar blismona ffyrdd, ac yr ydych wedi ymateb i’r maniffesto hwn mewn dull ymarferol iawn. A fyddwch yn ymestyn y math hwnnw o reolaeth i’r A55? Nid oes cyfeiriad at yr A55, ond o ran gwell rheolaeth gofynnaf, ar ran y rhai sy’n byw yn y rhan honno o Gymru, pa welliannau y byddwn yn eu gweld yn y dyfodol. Fodd bynnag, croesawaf y datganiad yn fawr iawn.

Y Dirprwy Prif Weinidog: Yr wyf yn falch eich bod wedi cyfeirio at y ffaith bod hwn yn gynllun gwirioneddol genedlaethol, oherwydd mae’n edrych ar y coridorau ar draws y gogledd, o’r dwyrain i’r gorllewin, ar draws y canolbarth a’r de, a hefyd o’r gogledd i’r de. Felly, mae’n gynllun gwirioneddol genedlaethol sy’n ceisio edrych ar anghenion Cymru. Weithiau mae’n rhaid i rywun wneud penderfyniadau hynod o anodd ynglŷn â blaenoriaethu. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym wedi ceisio sicrhau, o ran y gwaith o ddatblygu system drafnidiaeth gwbl integredig yng Nghymru, bod buddsoddiad yn cael ei wneud ym mhob rhan o’r genedl.

Yr ydych wedi cyfeirio at y ffaith ein bod yn sôn nid yn unig am geir, bysiau a threnau, ond am seiclo a cherdded hefyd. Yr wyf yn falch bod y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd, Cynaliadwyedd a Thai a minnau yn symud ymlaen â’r cynllun i ddatblygu mwy o ddarpariaethau seiclo a cherdded ar hyd a lled Cymru. Yr wyf yn falch iawn bod nifer o gymunedau bellach yn cynnig eu sylwadau.

3.40 p.m.

O ran y pwynt a wnaethoch am reoli ffyrdd a’r defnydd o ffyrdd, mae cynllun ar gyfer yr A55. Yr wyf wedi bod yn y gogledd yn trafod hyn gyda’r heddlu. Mae ein swyddogion yn yr adran drafnidiaeth a’r heddlu wedi paratoi cynllun peilot ond yr ydym yn gobeithio, os bydd yr arian yn caniatáu, sicrhau bod hynny’n cael ei gyflwyno ar hyd yr A55 oherwydd, drwy reoli llif y drafnidiaeth yn well, mae modd lleihau tagfeydd a gwneud y ffyrdd yn fwy diogel.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I understand that this subject is of great interest to many people, but we have already spent an hour on it and a speaker from each of the main parties has made a contribution. Five more speakers wish to contribute. I ask the remaining speakers to be as concise as possible. I call Alun Cairns.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Deallaf fod y pwnc hwn o ddiddordeb mawr i lawer o bobl, ond yr ydym eisoes wedi treulio awr arno ac y mae siaradwr o bob un o’r prif bleidiau wedi gwneud cyfraniad. Mae pum siaradwr arall yn dymuno cyfrannu. Gofynnaf i’r siaradwyr eraill fod mor gryno â phosibl. Galwaf ar Alun Cairns.

Alun Cairns: I accept your instructions in relation to timing.

I want to address two issues that are important to the whole of south Wales. One is the cancelling of the M4 relief road. The Confederation of British Industry issued a statement immediately after you issued your statement today saying that cancelling the M4 relief road will damage Wales’s competitiveness and that congestion will cost the Welsh economy £1.1 billion by 2025. Do you accept the simple facts of the statement that the CBI has issued?

The second matter is in relation to access to Cardiff international airport. You say that improvements will be made to Five Mile Lane because of safety concerns but, in your statement, you talk about cost being the reason why you are not going forward with any of the three options that you have suggested. On which basis will you be improving Five Mile Lane? If it is to improve access to Cardiff international airport rather than on the basis of safety, does that mean that you will end up trunking the A48 in order to use Five Mile Lane as the route to the international airport?

Mae’r ail fater yn ymwneud â mynediad i faes awyr Caerdydd. Dywedwch y bydd gwelliannau’n cael eu gwneud ar Five Mile Lane oherwydd pryderon ynghylch diogelwch. Ond yn eich datganiad dywedwch mai’r gost yw’r rheswm pam nad ydych yn mynd ymlaen gydag un o’r tri dewis a awgrymwyd gennych. Ar ba sail y byddwch yn gwella Five Mile Lane? Os y sail yw gwella mynediad i faes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd yn hytrach nag ar sail diogelwch, a yw hynny’n golygu y byddwch yn gorffen drwy droi’r A48 yn gefnffordd er mwyn gallu defnyddio Five Mile Lane fel y llwybr i’r maes awyr rhyngwladol?

The Deputy First Minister: On the M4 relief road, I do not accept the argument about congestion, because the whole point of the measures that I have announced today is to reduce congestion, and all the packages that I have put together, on the best advice that I have been given, would reduce congestion substantially, particularly around the Brynglas tunnels, which is where the major congestion is, although there are other important areas around junction 28.

Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog: Ynglŷn â ffordd liniaru’r M4, nid wyf yn derbyn y ddadl ynghylch tagfeydd, oherwydd holl ddiben y mesurau yr wyf wedi’u cyhoeddi heddiw yw lleihau tagfeydd, a byddai’r holl becynnau a roddais ynghyd, ar sail y cyngor gorau a roddwyd imi, yn lleihau tagfeydd yn sylweddol, yn enwedig o gwmpas twneli Bryn-glas, sef y man lle mae’r dagfa fwyaf, er bod mannau pwysig eraill o gwmpas cyffordd 28.  

On access to Cardiff Airport, the improvements will be in relation to access and safety. I believe that Alun is aware that the A48 has been retrunked. Five Mile Lane is not trunked. We are in discussions with the Vale of Glamorgan Council about how we intend to carry out improvements to Five Mile Lane, and I understand that there is a proposal that those improvements will be taken forward by the council. Any issue about trunking is a matter for the future.

Ynghylch mynediad i Faes Awyr Caerdydd, bydd y gwelliannau’n ymwneud â mynediad a diogelwch. Credaf fod Alun yn ymwybodol fod yr A48 wedi’i throi’n gefnffordd eto. Nid yw Five Mile Lane wedi’i throi’n gefnffordd. Yr ydym yn trafod gyda Chyngor Bro Morgannwg ynghylch sut y bwriadwn gyflawni gwelliannau ar Five Mile Lane, a deallaf fod cynnig y bydd y cyngor yn bwrw ymlaen â’r gwelliannau hynny. Rhywbeth i’r dyfodol yw unrhyw fater ynglŷn â throi’r ffordd yn gefnffordd.

Jeff Cuthbert: Like Alun and Gareth, I welcome the statement, but it poses a few questions. The first is on bus transport. Would you ask your officials to look into how local authorities subsidise bus services? You will recall—I have mentioned it before—that Stagecoach cancelled the X38 service, which took a direct route, via Nelson, to Cardiff from Bargoed. People getting on the bus at Nelson now have to change at Pontypridd. The services do not always coincide and they are experiencing considerable difficulties getting to Cardiff for work. Therefore, I ask you to consider how bus services are supported and the type of criteria involved.

Jeff Cuthbert: Fel Alun a Gareth, croesawaf y datganiad, ond y mae’n peri gofyn rhai cwestiynau. Y cyntaf yw ynghylch trafnidiaeth bysiau. A fyddech yn gofyn i’ch swyddogion ystyried sut y mae awdurdodau lleol yn darparu cymhorthdal i wasanaethau bysiau? Byddwch yn cofio—yr wyf wedi’i grybwyll o’r blaen—fod Stagecoach wedi dileu’r gwasanaeth X38, a fyddai’n mynd yn uniongyrchol drwy Nelson i Gaerdydd o Fargod. Bellach, rhaid i bobl sy’n mynd ar y bws yn Nelson newid ym Mhontypridd. Nid yw’r gwasanaethau’n cyd-daro bob amser, a bydd cryn anhawster wrth ddod i Gaerdydd i weithio. Felly, gofynnaf i chi ystyried sut y caiff gwasanaethau bysiau eu cefnogi a’r math o feini prawf sy’n gysylltiedig.

I have raised the issue of the Rhymney valley railway line before. I am pleased to see that the report states that Energlyn station is due to be completed by 2014—I hope that it is completed earlier than that. I am concerned that, although the platforms along the line have been lengthened and the signal infrastructure has been improved, we still do not have the trains of six carriages during peak times that Arriva promised us. I understand that the rolling stock has been purchased and is being used by Arriva elsewhere in the UK. Once again, I ask you to look into that and to speak to Arriva to see when my constituents will have the benefit of longer trains during peak times.

Yr wyf wedi codi mater rheilffordd cwm Rhymni o’r baen. Yr wyf yn falch gweld bod yr adroddiad yn dweud bod gorsaf Energlyn i fod i gael ei chwblhau erbyn 2014—gobeithio y caiff ei chwblhau cyn hynny. Pryderaf, er bod y platfformau ar hyd y llinell wedi’u hymestyn ac er bod seilwaith y signalau wedi’i wella, ein bod yn dal heb y trenau chwe cherbyd yn ystod oriau brig, fel yr addawyd inni gan Arriva. Deallaf fod y cerbydau wedi’u harchebu a’u bod yn cael eu defnyddio gan Arriva mewn lleoedd eraill yn y DU. Unwaith eto, gofynnaf i chi ystyried hynny a siarad ag Arriva i weld pryd y caiff fy etholwyr fanteision trenau hirach yn ystod oriau brig.

I also refer you to the issue of the Queen Street bridge, which remains a pinchpoint. Can I have your assurance that your officials and railway engineers will keep a close eye on the suitability of having just two tracks across Queen Street station to cope with the increased rail traffic from the Rhymney valley lines?

On access to the rail service for all—both the able bodied and the disabled—I have raised the issue of Ystrad Mynach station with you before and, just two days ago, I received a complaint from a wheelchair-bound constituent who was unable to access the Cardiff side of the Ystrad Mynach platform. That is not acceptable in this day and age. He had to travel either up line or down line to catch the train. That cannot be the case. Surely accessibility for all must include railway stations.

O ran gallu pawb i ddefnyddio’r gwasanaeth rheilffordd—yn bobl anabl a phobl nad ydynt yn anabl—yr wyf wedi codi mater gorsaf Ystrad Mynach gyda chi o’r blaen, a ddeuddydd yn unig yn ôl cefais gŵyn gan etholwr sy’n gaeth i gadair olwyn nad oedd yn gallu cyrraedd ochr Caerdydd o’r platfform yn Ystrad Mynach. Nid yw hynny’n dderbyniol yn yr oes sydd ohoni. Yr oedd yn rhaid iddo deithio naill ai i fyny neu i lawr y llinell er mwyn dal y trên. Ni all pethau fod felly. Yn sicr rhaid i hygyrchedd i bawb gynnwys gorsafoedd rheilffyrdd.

The Deputy First Minister: I will deal briefly with your points. I accept that we need bus services that are convenient, not only for leisure purposes, but, importantly, to get people to their places of employment. If we want people to leave their cars at home, we must have convenient bus services to take them to their places of work. The current position is that where bus companies run commercial services that are not subsidised, that is a matter for them. However, where there are subsidised services, the local authority normally carries the responsibility for negotiating with the bus companies how they deliver those services. The powers that we have taken under the Local Transport Act 2008 will enable us to look again at how bus services are delivered locally to ensure greater coherence. I assure you that we may well look at that with local authorities. So, it is possible that we could use those powers, but I will write to you with a bit more detail on that.

Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog: Ymdriniaf yn fyr â’ch pwyntiau. Yr wyf yn derbyn bod arnom angen gwasanaethau bysiau sy’n gyfleus, nid yn unig at ddibenion hamdden, ond, yn bwysig, er mwyn cludo pobl i’w mannau gwaith. Os oes arnom eisiau i bobl adael eu ceir gartref, rhaid inni gael gwasanaethau bysiau cyfleus i fynd â hwy i’w mannau gwaith. Y sefyllfa ar hyn o bryd yw mai mater i’r cwmnïau bysiau ydyw os ydynt yn rhedeg gwasanaethau masnachol na cheir cymhorthdal ar eu cyfer. Fodd bynnag, lle mae gwasanaethau sy’n cael cymhorthdal, yr awdurdod lleol sy’n gyfrifol fel arfer am drafod â’r cwmnïau bysiau ynghylch sut maent yn darparu’r gwasanaethau hynny. Bydd y pwerau yr ydym wedi’u cymryd dan Ddeddf Trafnidiaeth Leol 2008 yn ein galluogi i edrych eto ar sut mae gwasanaethau bysiau yn cael eu darparu’n lleol er mwyn sicrhau mwy o gydlyniad. Yr wyf yn eich sicrhau y gallwn yn hawdd fod yn edrych ar hynny gydag awdurdodau lleol. Felly, mae’n bosibl y gallem ddefnyddio’r pwerau hynny, ond ysgrifennaf atoch i roi ychydig mwy o fanylion am hynny.

Again, I will have to write to you on the detail about the Rhymney valley railway. You quite rightly point out that if platforms are lengthened, it is important to make use of those lengthened platforms by having more carriages. You mentioned the fact that Arriva has bought more carriages; the problem is that there is a shortage of rolling stock on the whole network and it is not always easy to purchase new rolling stock, as my officials keep telling me. I will write to you in relation to the point that you made about the rolling stock on the Rhymney valley line.

Bydd yn rhaid imi ysgrifennu atoch hefyd am y manylion ynghylch rheilffordd cwm Rhymni. Yr ydych yn berffaith gywir wrth ddweud, os yw platfformau’n cael eu hestyn, ei bod yn bwysig defnyddio’r platfformau estynedig hynny drwy gael mwy o gerbydau. Gwnaethoch grybwyll y ffaith bod Arriva wedi prynu mwy o gerbydau; y broblem yw bod diffyg cerbydau ar y rhwydwaith cyfan ac nid yw bob amser yn rhwydd prynu cerbydau newydd, fel y dywed fy swyddogion wrthyf yn barhaus. Byddaf yn ysgrifennu atoch am y pwynt a wnaethoch am y cerbydau ar linell cwm Rhymni.

On access to Queen Street station and the bridge there, we are keeping a close eye on that and we want to ensure that the improvements can deliver the changes to ensure more frequent services into Queen Street. I know how important that is for your constituency.

If I may beg your indulgence for a second, Madam Dirprwy Lywydd, there were two other matters that I forgot to respond to, and I think that it is important to put my response on the record. One was in relation to health impact assessments, which Alun Davies asked about. We do not currently require health impact assessments for road builds, but if representations are made to me, I will ensure that my officials look at that. Just for Mike German, I gather that the ministerial advisory group report and my response to it were e-mailed to Members with the statement.

Os maddeuwch imi am eiliad, Madam Dirprwy Lywydd, yr oedd dau fater arall yr anghofiais ymateb iddynt, a chredaf ei bod yn bwysig cofnodi fy ymateb. Yr oedd y naill yn ymwneud ag asesiadau o’r effaith ar iechyd, yr holodd Alun Davies yn eu cylch. Nid ydym, ar hyn o bryd, yn mynnu bod asesiadau o’r effaith ar iechyd yn ofynnol wrth adeiladu ffyrdd, ond os cyflwynir sylwadau imi, byddaf yn sicrhau bod fy swyddogion yn edrych ar hynny. I Mike German yn benodol, deallaf fod adroddiad grŵp cynghori’r Gweinidog a’m hymateb iddo wedi eu hanfon at yr Aelodau ar e-bost gyda’r datganiad.

Jeff Cuthbert: What about disabled access?

Jeff Cuthbert: Beth am fynediad ar gyfer pobl anabl?

The Deputy First Minister: On disabled access, I had a very good meeting with representatives of the Multiple Sclerosis Society Wales. I think that we had a debate here a few weeks ago on disabled access to trains. I have now agreed with my officials that we will undertake a proper survey of the requirements across Wales. The situation has improved in comparison with the figures that the society had, but there is still a long way to go and I have agreed to work with it on a programme of improvements to disabled access. It is important for us to engage with communities to take that forward.

Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog: O ran mynediad ar gyfer pobl anabl, cefais gyfarfod da iawn gyda chynrychiolwyr Multiple Sclerosis Society Cymru. Credaf inni gael dadl yma ychydig wythnosau’n ôl ynghylch mynediad i drenau ar gyfer pobl anabl. Yr wyf wedi cytuno’n awr gyda’m swyddogion y byddwn yn cynnal arolwg trylwyr o’r anghenion ledled Cymru. Mae’r sefyllfa wedi gwella o’i chymharu â’r ffigurau a oedd gan y gymdeithas, ond mae ffordd bell i fynd o hyd, ac yr wyf wedi cytuno i weithio gyda hi ar raglen o welliannau o ran mynediad ar gyfer pobl anabl. Mae’n bwysig inni ymwneud â chymunedau i fwrw ymlaen â hynny.

Trish Law: Deputy First Minister, I am delighted that we at last have a commitment for improvements to the Gaer junction, which will enable rail services to operate between Ebbw Vale, in my constituency, and Newport by 2011. I have been campaigning for this work to be completed in time for the Ryder Cup, but this is second best. I welcome this afternoon’s announcement that the dualling of the Heads of the Valleys road will be completed by 2020. It has been a long time coming, but it will do wonders for the regeneration of communities along the A465 and will literally be a lifesaver.

Trish Law: Ddirprwy Brif Weinidog, yr wyf wrth fy modd fod gennym ymrwymiad o’r diwedd i wella cyffordd Gaer, a fydd yn galluogi rhedeg gwasanaethau rheilffordd rhwng Glynebwy, yn fy etholaeth, a Chasnewydd erbyn 2011. Yr wyf wedi bod yn ymgyrchu o blaid cwblhau’r gwaith hwn mewn pryd ar gyfer Cwpan Ryder, ond dyma’r ail orau. Croesawaf y cyhoeddiad y prynhawn yma y bydd y gwaith deuoli ar ffordd Blaenau’r Cymoedd yn cael ei gwblhau erbyn 2020. Yr ydym wedi disgwyl yn hir amdano, ond bydd yn gwneud gwyrthiau i adfywio cymunedau ar hyd yr A465, a bydd yn llythrennol yn achub bywydau.

The Deputy First Minister: I am sorry that we are not going to be able to do all the work necessary in relation to the Ebbw Vale service in time for the Ryder Cup, but, nevertheless, there is now a commitment to complete the infrastructure works that will enable that service to go ahead. You are quite right about the commitment to the dualling of the A465. That is an important commitment that we have made and it was repeated in the trunk road forward programme. To confirm the point that was raised earlier, there are only four sections of the A465 left to do. The advice that I have been given is that the whole lot will be completed by 2020 within the allocation of the necessary resources.

Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog: Mae’n ddrwg gennyf na fydd yn bosibl inni wneud yr holl waith sy’n angenrheidiol yng nghyswllt gwasanaeth Glynebwy mewn pryd ar gyfer y Cwpan Ryder. Ond er hynny mae ymrwymiad yn awr i gwblhau’r gwaith ar yr isadeiledd a fydd yn galluogi bwrw ymlaen â’r gwasanaeth hwnnw. Yr ydych yn berffaith iawn ynghylch yr ymrwymiad i ddeuoli’r A465. Mae hwnnw’n ymrwymiad pwysig yr ydym wedi’i wneud, a chafodd ei ailadrodd yn y flaenraglen cefnffyrdd. I gadarnhau’r pwynt a godwyd yn gynharach, pedair rhan yn unig o’r A465 sy’n weddill i’w gwneud. Y cyngor a roddwyd imi yw y bydd y cyfan wedi’i gwblhau erbyn 2020 o fewn dyraniad yr adnoddau angenrheidiol.

3.50 p.m.

Ann Jones: I welcome what you have said today. I have some questions on which you may have to do some research and answer at another time. When you look at the walking and cycling strategy of the transport plan, will you consider people with a disability? We do not want people to tell those of us who cannot cycle that we have no right to walk along pavements. Will you also look at shared surfaces for cycling and walking? Shared surfaces are a definite no-no for anyone with a disability, in particular those who are deaf. You cannot hear someone ringing a bell behind you when you have a hearing impairment. Many people forget about that disability because it is invisible.

Ann Jones: Croesawaf yr hyn yr ydych wedi’i ddweud heddiw. Mae gennyf rai cwestiynau y bydd yn rhaid ichi ymchwilio iddynt, o bosibl, a’u hateb rywbryd eto. Pan fyddwch yn edrych ar y strategaeth cerdded a beicio yn y cynllun trafnidiaeth, a wnewch chi ystyried pobl ag anabledd? Nid oes arnom eisiau i bobl ddweud wrth y rhai hynny ohonom na allwn feicio nad oes gennym hawl i gerdded ar hyd palmentydd. A edrychwch hefyd ar arwynebau cyfunol ar gyfer beicio a cherdded? Mae arwynebau cyfunol yn rhywbeth i’w osgoi i unrhyw un ag anabledd, yn enwedig pobl sy’n fyddar. Ni fedrwch glywed rhywun yn canu cloch y tu ôl ichi os oes nam ar eich clyw. Mae llawer o bobl yn anghofio am yr anabledd hwnnw am nad yw’n weladwy.

On disabled access, if you are looking at what is required in stations, will you also look at the rolling stock of Arriva Trains Wales? I have mentioned to you the Cardiff to Holyhead express train—which I affectionately call the 'Von Ieuan Express’. If it were not for my colleague Darren Millar, I would have remained on the train three weeks ago when it pulled up at Rhyl station. The door opened suddenly, and the handle went with the door, and there was a sizeable drop between the train and the platform. Anyone wearing a skirt would have been quietly embarrassed about stepping on to the platform. Even without a disability, you would have had difficulties. If it were not for Darren Millar helping me off the train—he had to put everything down to do so—

O ran mynediad ar gyfer pobl anabl, os ydych yn edrych ar yr hyn sy’n angenrheidiol mewn gorsafoedd, a edrychwch chi hefyd ar gerbydau Trenau Arriva Cymru? Yr wyf wedi sôn wrthych am drên cyflym Caerdydd i Gaergybi—yr wyf yn ei alw’n annwyl y 'Von Ieuan Express’. Oni bai am fy nghyd-Aelod, Darren Millar, byddwn wedi gorfod aros ar y trên dair wythnos yn ôl pan gyrhaeddodd orsaf y Rhyl. Agorodd y drws yn gyflym, ac aeth yr handlen gyda’r drws, ac yr oedd cryn fwlch rhwng y trên a’r platfform. Byddai unrhyw un a oedd yn gwisgo sgert wedi teimlo’n chwithig, yn dawel bach, ynghylch camu ar y platfform. Hyd yn oed heb anabledd, byddech wedi cael anawsterau. Oni bai bod Darren Millar wedi fy nghynorthwyo i adael y trên—bu’n rhaid iddo ollwng popeth i wneud hynny—

Andrew R.T. Davies: Was he wearing a skirt? [Laughter.]

Ann Jones: No, he was not wearing a skirt. I was wearing one, however, and he saved my blushes while I got off the train. This is about people being able to get on and off trains, and therefore the rolling stock needs to be looked at.

Ann Jones: Nac oedd, nid oedd yn gwisgo sgert. Ond yr oeddwn i’n gwisgo sgert, ac arbedodd gywilydd imi pan oeddwn yn gadael y trên. Mae hyn yn ymwneud â gallu pobl i fynd ar drenau ac oddi arnynt, ac felly mae angen edrych ar y cerbydau.

I welcome the highway traffic officers that you intend to roll out after the success of the pilot scheme. I know that that will give you some good figures, and there should be no reason not to do that.

On the Deeside transport hub, does that now mean that we will, at last, see improvements to the A550 on Aston Hill?

O ran canolfan drafnidiaeth Glannau Dyfrdwy, a yw hynny’n golygu’n awr y byddwn, o’r diwedd, yn gweld gwelliannau ar yr A550 ar Aston Hill?

The Deputy First Minister: Yes. On that last point, we are considering a number of options for that whole area. We need to consider the options holistically, in terms of not just road improvements, of which I am sure there will need to be some, but also the area’s public transport needs.

Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog: Ydyw. Ar y pwynt olaf hwnnw, yr ydym yn ystyried nifer o ddewisiadau ar gyfer yr ardal honno’n gyfan. Mae angen inni ystyried y dewisiadau’n gyfannol, nid yn unig o ran gwelliannau ffordd, ac yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd angen rhai o’r rheini, ond hefyd o ran anghenion cludiant cyhoeddus yr ardal.

I welcome your comments on the highway traffic officers. I very much understand your point about walking and cycling, particularly for people with disabilities and those with hearing impairments. It is important for us to develop services to which everyone has equality of access—that is absolutely right.

Croesawaf eich sylwadau am y swyddogion traffig priffyrdd. Deallaf yn llwyr eich pwynt ynghylch cerdded a beicio, yn enwedig i bobl ag anableddau a phobl sydd â nam ar eu clyw. Mae’n bwysig inni ddatblygu gwasanaethau y gall pawb eu defnyddio’n gyfartal—mae hynny’n berffaith gywir.

I had a good meeting with Multiple Sclerosis Society Cymru on disabled access in stations and on rolling stock. I have agreed to take that work forward with it. We can provide some innovative solutions. For example, at Aberdyfi, I gather that there will be a mobile raised platform that enables people to get on to the train without a wheelchair having to be lifted and so on. If that is successful, as I hope it will be, then we can look to roll it out. I want to take that forward.

Cefais gyfarfod da gyda Multiple Sclerosis Society Cymru ynghylch mynediad ar gyfer pobl anabl mewn gorsafoedd ac ar gerbydau. Yr wyf wedi cytuno i fwrw ymlaen â’r gwaith hwnnw gyda’r gymdeithas. Gallwn ddarparu atebion arloesol. Yn Aberdyfi, er enghraifft, deallaf y bydd platfform uchel symudol ar gael sy’n galluogi pobl i fynd ar y trên heb orfod codi cadair olwyn, ac ati. Os bydd hynny’n llwyddiant, a gobeithio y bydd, yna gallwn ystyried ei gyflwyno’n eang. Mae arnaf eisiau bwrw ymlaen â hynny.

The cross-party interest in the express service between Cardiff and Holyhead is welcome and I hope that that continues. I agree with your point on the need for us to have good facilities and to provide access to transport for people with disabilities. I will work hard to ensure continual improvement in that regard.

By the way, Ann, I thought that Rhyl Football Club played very well last night.

The Minister for Social Justice and Local Government (Brian Gibbons): The Auditor General for Wales has today published his corporate governance inspection of Anglesey County Council.

Y Gweinidog dros Gyfiawnder Cymdeithasol a Llywodraeth Leol (Brian Gibbons): Heddiw mae Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru wedi cyhoeddi ei arolygiad llywodraethu corfforaethol o Gyngor Sir Ynys Môn.

The inspection describes a council where the political processes do not work effectively and have not done so for many years. I am not prepared to tolerate these failings and will accept the recommendation of the auditor general to intervene to ensure that the recommendations in the report are delivered in full.

Mae’r arolygiad yn disgrifio cyngor lle nad yw’r prosesau gwleidyddol yn gweithio’n effeithiol a lle nad yw hynny wedi digwydd ers blynyddoedd lawer. Nid wyf yn fodlon goddef y methiannau hyn, a byddaf yn derbyn argymhelliad yr archwilydd cyffredinol i ymyrryd er mwyn sicrhau bod yr argymhellion yn yr adroddiad yn cael eu gweithredu’n llawn.

The inspection followed a recommendation for a wider corporate governance inspection made by the council’s appointed auditor’s annual letter, published earlier this year. That letter did not make for comfortable reading. It concluded that the council had not taken effective action in response to many previous recommendations made by the Wales Audit Office. Specifically, at a service level, the authority has not made reasonable progress against a range of improvement actions. Corporate management was assessed as weak, and that had a substantial limiting impact on the council’s ability to offer improved services. Unified political and managerial leadership appeared to be absent, and the difficulties in working relationships between some executive members and senior officers were having a detrimental impact on the council’s ability to meet its best value duties. For these reasons it was recommended that the auditor general should carry out an inspection of the council’s corporate governance.

Yr oedd yr arolygiad yn dilyn argymhelliad am arolygiad llywodraethu corfforaethol ehangach a wnaethpwyd yn llythyr blynyddol archwilydd penodedig y cyngor, a gyhoeddwyd yn gynharach eleni. Yr oedd darllen y llythyr hwnnw’n brofiad anghysurus. Daeth i’r casgliad nad oedd y cyngor wedi cymryd camau effeithiol i ymateb i nifer o argymhellion blaenorol a wnaethpwyd gan Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru. Yn benodol, ar lefel gwasanaeth, nid yw’r awdurdod wedi gwneud cynnydd rhesymol yn erbyn amrywiaeth o gamau gwella. Aseswyd bod y rheolaeth gorfforaethol yn wan, ac yr oedd hynny’n cael effaith gyfyngol sylweddol ar allu’r cyngor i gynnig gwell gwasanaethau. Yr oedd yn ymddangos nad oedd arweinyddiaeth wleidyddol nac arweinyddiaeth reolaethol unedig, ac yr oedd yr anawsterau yn y berthynas waith rhwng rhai aelodau gweithredol ac uwch-swyddogion yn cael effaith andwyol ar allu’r cyngor i gyflawni ei ddyletswyddau gwerth gorau. Am y rhesymau hyn, argymhellwyd y dylai’r archwilydd cyffredinol gynnal arolygiad o lywodraethu corfforaethol y cyngor.

The corporate governance inspection is published today, and is the result of that further work. The auditor general has gathered evidence from a wide variety of stakeholders, including the public. In my view, the conclusions presented by the inspection are well founded and based in evidence. They reflect the views of citizens, elected members and officers.

Caiff yr arolygiad o lywodraethu corfforaethol ei gyhoeddi heddiw, a chanlyniad ydyw o’r gwaith pellach hwnnw. Mae’r archwilydd cyffredinol wedi casglu tystiolaeth gan amrywiaeth eang o randdeiliaid, gan gynnwys y cyhoedd. Yn fy marn i, mae’r casgliadau a gyflwynir gan yr arolygiad yn gadarn ac yn seiliedig ar dystiolaeth. Maent yn adlewyrchu barn dinasyddion, aelodau etholedig a swyddogion.

I welcome the publication of the inspection report, but I very much regret its findings. Those who have had a chance to examine the document will agree that it is unprecedented in the nature of its criticism of the council. The report does, however, accept that

Yr wyf yn croesawu cyhoeddi adroddiad yr arolygiad, ond gresynaf yn fawr at ei ddarganfyddiadau. Bydd y rheini sydd wedi cael cyfle i astudio’r ddogfen yn cytuno nad oes tebyg iddi yn y gorffennol o ran natur ei beirniadaeth o’r cyngor. Mae’r adroddiad yn derbyn, fodd bynnag,

'there are good features in the performance of many services’.

I pay tribute to the dedicated staff who have achieved that in difficult circumstances.

Rhoddaf deyrnged i’r staff ymroddedig sydd wedi llwyddo i sicrhau hynny dan amgylchiadau anodd.

The criticism is different from what we have seen recently in other reports, in that it finds that there are clear failures in the corporate governance of the council rather than in services. Nevertheless, the prospects for delivering improved services for the future are far from positive, particularly in the challenging financial times ahead of us, and given the particular challenges that the island of Anglesey faces.

Mae’r feirniadaeth yn wahanol i’r hyn a welsom yn ddiweddar mewn adroddiadau eraill, oherwydd mae’n darganfod bod methiannau amlwg yn llywodraethu corfforaethol y cyngor yn hytrach nag mewn gwasanaethau. Er hynny, mae’r rhagolygon ar gyfer darparu gwell gwasanaethau i’r dyfodol ymhell o fod yn gadarnhaol, yn enwedig yn y cyfnod ariannol heriol sydd o’n blaenau, ac wrth ystyried yr heriau penodol sy’n wynebu ynys Môn.

Overall, the report concludes that the council was and is failing to comply with Part I of the Local Government Act 1999. That means that it was not, and is not, making adequate arrangements to secure continuous improvement. That is a fundamental corporate responsibility for any local authority, and failure to discharge it is a grave matter.

Yn gyffredinol, daw’r adroddiad i’r casgliad fod y cyngor wedi methu cydymffurfio ag Adran I Deddf Llywodraeth Leol 1999 a’i fod yn dal i fethu gwneud hynny. Mae hynny’n golygu nad oedd, ac nad yw, yn gwneud trefniadau digonol i sicrhau gwelliant parhaus. Mae hwnnw’n gyfrifoldeb corfforaethol sylfaenol ar unrhyw awdurdod lleol, ac mae methu â’i gyflawni yn fater difrifol.

Most notably, the poor self-regulation of inappropriate and unacceptable behaviours by the council has been found to have diverted attention from essential business. The inspection also found the council has been ineffective and reactive in dealing with its problems, and that it has not developed any convincing strategic direction. These behaviours, together with substantial internal conflict, as recorded by the inspection report, are endemic and long standing. Most importantly, this seems to have diverted valuable resources away from the provision and improvement of front-line services. As the auditor general acknowledges, poor corporate governance can all too quickly lead to failure in major services. I am not prepared to allow that to happen.

Yn anad dim, gwelwyd bod yr hunanreoleiddio gwael ar ymddygiadau amhriodol ac annerbyniol gan y cyngor wedi tynnu sylw oddi ar fusnes hanfodol. Darganfu’r arolygiad hefyd fod y cyngor wedi bod yn aneffeithiol ac yn adweithiol wrth ymdrin â’i broblemau, ac nad yw wedi datblygu dim cyfeiriad strategol argyhoeddiadol. Mae’r ymddygiadau hyn, ynghyd â gwrthdaro mewnol sylweddol, fel y mae adroddiad yr arolygiad yn ei gofnodi, yn rhemp ac yn bod ers tro. Yn bwysicaf oll, ymddengys fod hyn wedi dargyfeirio adnoddau gwerthfawr oddi ar ddarparu a gwella gwasanaethau rheng-flaen. Fel y mae’r archwilydd cyffredinol yn ei gydnabod, gall llywodraethu corfforaethol gwael arwain mewn dim o dro at fethiant gwasanaethau o bwys. Nid wyf yn fodlon caniatáu i hynny ddigwydd.

The identified failures run widely across the local authority. It is clear that the elected members have been part of the problem. They must be part of the solution. I expect them to engage constructively in the change process from today onwards. I will be also be looking to partners across the public sector to play their part, too. I have already contacted the political leadership of the Welsh Local Government Association, and I know that John Davies, the leader of the WLGA, and Russell Roberts, its deputy leader, are as greatly concerned as I am about the findings set out in this detailed report. Together, we will work with the association and other partners to address the recommendations and to seek to turnaround this situation. We will use whatever means we have to.

Mae’r methiannau a nodwyd i’w gweld yn eang ledled yr awdurdod lleol. Mae’n amlwg fod yr aelodau etholedig wedi bod yn rhan o’r broblem. Rhaid iddynt fod yn rhan o’r ateb. Disgwyliaf iddynt ymwneud yn adeiladol â’r broses o newid o heddiw ymlaen. Byddaf hefyd yn disgwyl i bartneriaid ledled y sector cyhoeddus wneud eu rhan. Yr wyf eisoes wedi cysylltu ag arweinwyr gwleidyddol Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, a gwn fod John Davies, arweinydd y Gymdeithas, a Russell Roberts, y dirprwy arweinydd, yn pryderu’n fawr, fel yr wyf fi, am y darganfyddiadau a amlinellir yn yr adroddiad manwl hwn. Ar y cyd, byddwn yn gweithio gyda’r gymdeithas a phartneriaid eraill i ymdrin â’r argymhellion ac i geisio newid y sefyllfa hon. Byddwn yn defnyddio pa ddulliau bynnag sydd raid.

Public services face a testing time over the next few years. All organisations will need the most robust and high-performing corporate systems to support the effective delivery and continued improvement of services to the citizen. Citizens rely on their local councils for vital services, and we must not let them down. That includes the citizens of Anglesey. Without a major change in the current corporate and political arrangements in the council, as well as a new maturity in behaviour and relationships, there can be no effective identification of the real priorities for the island, no reasoned allocation of resources between them, no prospect of improvement in services, a real possibility of a drop in standards, and, at worst, service failures.

Mae gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn wynebu cyfnod anodd dros yr ychydig flynyddoedd nesaf. Bydd ar bob corff angen y systemau corfforaethol mwyaf cadarn a rhai sy’n perfformio i’r eithaf er mwyn cefnogi’r gwaith o ddarparu gwasanaethau i ddinasyddion yn effeithiol a pharhau i wella’r gwasanaethau hynny. Mae dinasyddion yn dibynnu ar eu cynghorau lleol am wasanaethau hanfodol, a rhaid inni beidio â’u siomi. Mae hynny’n cynnwys dinasyddion Ynys Môn. Heb newid sylweddol yn nhrefniadau corfforaethol a gwleidyddol presennol y cyngor, yn ogystal ag aeddfedrwydd newydd mewn ymddygiad a pherthynas pobl â’i gilydd, ni ellir nodi’r gwir flaenoriaethau ar gyfer yr ynys, ni ellir dyrannu adnoddau’n rhesymegol rhyngddynt, nid oes dim gobaith gwella gwasanaethau ac mae posibilrwydd gwirioneddol y bydd safonau’n disgwyn, ac ar y gwaethaf yn methu.

4.00 p.m.

That is an indefensible situation for a council and, looking ahead, the position seems totally unsustainable. The auditor general recognises that and has recommended that the Assembly Government use its statutory powers under section 15 of the Local Government Act 1999 to intervene. I need to reflect carefully on the auditor general’s wider findings and recommendations before determining the exact form of intervention that will best restore stability and consistency to the council’s corporate governance. However, in principle, I agree with the auditor general’s recommendation. I will be meeting the council next week to discuss the report, and I will outline the details of the intervention that I intend to make in the next few weeks.

Mae hon yn sefyllfa na all cyngor ei hamddiffyn, ac o edrych ymlaen mae’r sefyllfa’n ymddangos yn gwbl anghynaliadwy. Mae’r archwilydd cyffredinol yn cydnabod hynny, ac mae wedi argymell bod Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn defnyddio’i phwerau statudol dan adran 15 Deddf Llywodraeth Leol 1999 i ymyrryd. Mae angen imi edrych yn ofalus ar ddarganfyddiadau ac argymhellion ehangach yr archwilydd cyffredinol cyn penderfynu pa fath yn union o ymyriad fydd orau i adfer sefydlogrwydd a chysondeb trefniadau llywodraethu corfforaethol y cyngor. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn cytuno ag egwyddor argymhelliad yr archwilydd cyffredinol. Byddaf yn cwrdd â’r cyngor yr wythnos nesaf i drafod yr adroddiad, a byddaf yn amlinellu manylion yr ymyriad y bwriadaf ei wneud yn ystod yr wythnosau nesaf.

Nick Bourne: I thank the Minister for making the statement and offer him our support. His remarks on backing the auditor general’s report are appropriate. I echo what he certainly hinted at in his statement, namely that this is no reflection on the hundreds of people who work for the authority and who offer an excellent service to the people of Ynys Môn, or on the people who receive the services. We need to reassure those working for the authority and the consumers of its services, those living on the island, that they will not be let down in the reaction to the auditor general’s report.

Nick Bourne: Diolch i’r Gweinidog am ei ddatganiad, a chynigiaf ein cefnogaeth iddo. Mae ei sylwadau ar gefnogi adroddiad yr archwilydd cyffredinol yn rhai priodol. Adleisiaf yr hyn y mae’n sicr wedi’i awgrymu yn ei ddatganiad, sef nad yw hyn yn adlewyrchiad ar y cannoedd o bobl sy’n gweithio i’r awdurdod ac sy’n cynnig gwasanaeth rhagorol i bobl Ynys Môn, nac ar y bobl sy’n cael y gwasanaethau. Mae angen inni dawelu pryderon y rheini sy’n gweithio i’r awdurdod a defnyddwyr ei wasanaethau, y rheini sy’n byw ar yr ynys, a’u sicrhau na fydd neb yn cefnu arnynt yn dilyn yr adwaith i adroddiad yr archwilydd cyffredinol.

I am pleased that the Assembly Government has taken on board the serious concerns raised by the auditor general, that it is implementing appropriate measures to resolve the long-term problems at the Isle of Anglesey County Council, and that it is also working with partners such as the Welsh Local Government Association and others in seeking to resolve the problems. Personality politics, which have certainly been a part of the problem, should not be a part of local government. It leads to mistrust between councillors and officials, and therefore the majority on the island have suffered because of the actions and inactions of the few. The council needs to take immediate steps to win back the support of the people of Anglesey, and it is possible that that can happen only through intervention. While that is unpalatable, it is probably the only appropriate option left to the Minister.

Yr wyf yn falch fod Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi cymryd sylw o’r pryderon difrifol a godwyd gan yr archwilydd cyffredinol, ei bod yn rhoi mesurau priodol ar waith i ddatrys y problemau tymor hir yng Nghyngor Sir Ynys Môn, a’i bod hefyd yn gweithio gyda phartneriaid megis Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru ac eraill i geisio datrys y problemau. Ni ddylai gwleidyddiaeth personoliaethau, sy’n sicr wedi bod yn rhan o’r broblem, fod yn rhan o lywodraeth leol. Mae’n arwain at ddiffyg ymddiriedaeth rhwng cynghorwyr a swyddogion, ac felly mae’r mwyafrif ar yr ynys wedi dioddef o ganlyniad i weithredoedd a diffyg gweithredoedd yr ychydig. Mae angen i’r cyngor gymryd camau ar unwaith i adennill cefnogaeth pobl Môn, ac y mae’n bosibl mai drwy ymyrryd yn unig y gellir gwneud hynny. Er bod hynny’n annymunol, mae’n debygol mai dyna’r unig ddewis sydd ar ôl i’r Gweinidog.

I appreciate that the Minister has not yet held detailed talks with the people concerned, but does he have any idea of what form the intervention will take, how long it might last, and what the likely cost of the intervention is, at least in ballpark terms? Can he guarantee that front-line services will not be impacted on by the intervention? Can he assure the Assembly that appropriate action will be taken in relation to any councillors or officers found to be behaving below the appropriate standards? To be fair, the Minister has undertaken to keep the Assembly abreast of progress during the summer recess, but, given that we will not be here to question him and to probe him further, will he undertake to come back early on our return to the Assembly in September to give us an update on the position, perhaps with a more detailed statement, so that we can question him on that?

With that, we lend the Minister our support in what we believe is appropriate action.

Gyda hynny, yr ydym yn cefnogi’r Gweinidog am gymryd yr hyn a gredwn sy’n gamau priodol.

Brian Gibbons: I very much value your support, Nick. We need to send a clear unified message from the Assembly that this is a problem that has blighted and corroded the Isle of Anglesey council since it was established in the mid 1990s, and, in view of the serious issues that it faces, it is time to draw a line under that sorry and dismal record, so that we can start again. Your support is an important part of building that cross-party consensus.

Brian Gibbons: Yr wyf yn gwerthfawrogi’ch cefnogaeth yn fawr, Nick. Mae angen inni fel Cynulliad gyfleu neges bendant ac unedig fod hon yn broblem sydd wedi difetha a madru cyngor Ynys Môn ers ei sefydlu ganol y 1990au, a chan gofio’r problemau difrifol sy’n ei wynebu mae’n hen bryd tynnu’r llen ar yr hanes digalon a thywyll hwnnw, er mwyn inni gael dechrau o’r dechrau unwaith eto. Mae eich cefnogaeth yn rhan bwysig o adeiladu’r consensws hwnnw ar draws y pleidiau.

I concur that the staff working for the authority have done a tremendous job in most difficult circumstances, and the fact that the day-to-day services continue to operate is a clear signal of their professionalism and commitment to the local population. We hope to work with them as key partners in trying to turn the situation around.

Cytunaf fod y staff sy’n gweithio i’r awdurdod wedi gwneud gwaith rhagorol mewn amgylchiadau anodd iawn, ac y mae’r ffaith fod y gwasanaethau o ddydd i ddydd yn dal i weithredu yn arwydd pendant o’u proffesiynoldeb a’u hymrwymiad i’r boblogaeth leol. Gobeithio y gallwn weithio gyda hwy fel partneriaid allweddol wrth geisio gwyrdroi’r sefyllfa.

Turning to the specifics, this is a unique situation. There has clearly been a failure of corporate governance in this local authority, but, while services continue to be delivered reasonably well, the performance of a small minority of influential elected members is a significant contributory factor. That is a unique situation that we have not come across previously. We will need to address the situation with new, creative thinking as there is no ready-made solution sitting on the shelf.

Gan droi at y manylion, mae hon yn sefyllfa unigryw. Mae’n amlwg fod y trefniadau llywodraethu corfforaethol wedi methu yn yr awdurdod lleol hwn, ond er bod y gwasanaethau’n parhau i gael eu darparu’n lled dda, mae perfformiad lleiafrif bach o aelodau etholedig yn ffactor sylweddol sydd wedi cyfrannu at y sefyllfa. Mae honno’n sefyllfa unigryw nad ydym wedi dod ar ei thraws o’r blaen. Bydd angen inni fynd ati gyda meddylfryd newydd a chreadigol gan nad oes ateb parod yn aros amdanom ar y silff.

We are fortunate that the Wales Audit Office report is explicit about what it sees as the key priorities that require addressing, and it has given us seven recommendations that will be very useful pointers to the key areas that we need to address. The structures that we put in place will be targeted specifically at those recommendations, and they will be the test by which we judge whether what we are proposing is fit for purpose. That will involve looking at how the corporate management team performs, but also at how that minority of elected members is not engaging properly or constructively with the activities of the council. We will need measures to address that.

Yr ydym yn ffodus fod adroddiad Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru yn gwbl glir ynghylch yr hyn a ystyria’n flaenoriaethau allweddol y mae angen sylw arnynt, ac mae wedi rhoi saith argymhelliad inni a fydd yn ganllawiau defnyddiol iawn ar gyfer y meysydd allweddol y mae angen inni roi sylw iddynt. Caiff y strwythurau a rown ar waith eu targedu’n benodol at yr argymhellion hynny, a dyna fydd y prawf inni farnu a fydd yr hyn a gynigiwn yn addas at y diben. Bydd hynny’n golygu edrych ar y ffordd y mae’r tîm rheoli corfforaethol yn perfformio, ond hefyd ar y ffordd nad yw’r lleiafrif o aelodau etholedig hynny’n ymgysylltu’n briodol neu’n adeiladol â gweithgareddau’r cyngor. Bydd arnom angen mesurau i fynd i’r afael â hynny.

It is impossible to say how long this will take. This has been going on for almost a generation in politics and so is a generational problem. A lot of new members were elected in the last local government election and a new leader was elected at the last election, so there are some good signs, but we have to say that we are here for the long haul. We would be fooling ourselves if we said that there was a quick fix.

Mae’n amhosibl rhagweld faint o amser a gymer hyn. Mae hyn wedi bod yn digwydd ers cenhedlaeth bron mewn gwleidyddiaeth, ac felly mae’n broblem cenhedlaeth. Etholwyd nifer o aelodau newydd yn yr etholiad llywodraeth leol diwethaf, ac etholwyd arweinydd newydd ar ôl yr etholiad diwethaf, felly, mae rhai arwyddion da i’w gweld, ond rhaid dweud bod hyn yn mynd i gymryd amser. Byddem yn twyllo’n hunain petaem yn dweud bod ateb cyflym i’r broblem.

On the figures, we expect the local authority to shoulder some of the cost. It would be iniquitous if the taxpayers of Wales had to pay for the entire expense. However, we can estimate, from the interventions at Cardiff and Swansea councils, that it could run to tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of pounds. Interventions are not cheap and we do not take them lightly, not only because of the challenges that they place upon us but also because of the cost to public revenue. This is not a cheap option, but this situation has gone on too long and cannot be allowed to continue.

O ran y ffigurau, disgwyliwn i’r awdurdod lleol ysgwyddo rhywfaint o’r gost. Byddai’n annheg i drethdalwyr Cymru orfod talu’r gost i gyd. Fodd bynnag, gallwn amcangyfrif, yn dilyn ymyriadau yng nghynghorau Caerdydd ac Abertawe, y gallai gostio degau o filoedd os nad cannoedd o filoedd o bunnoedd. Nid yw ymyriadau’n rhad, ac nid ydym yn eu cymryd yn ysgafn, nid yn unig oherwydd yr heriau a wynebwn yn eu sgil, ond hefyd oherwydd y gost i’r coffrau cyhoeddus. Nid yw hwn yn ddewis rhad, ond mae’r sefyllfa hon wedi mynd ymlaen ers yn rhy hir ac ni ellir caniatáu iddi barhau.

Finally, I would be pleased to keep the Assembly updated. As I said, I am due to have a round of meetings with senior elected members and senior officers at Anglesey in the next week, and some other meetings are scheduled for the week or two after that. I will be pleased to try to provide a written statement by mid August, and I will be available for an oral statement early in the autumn term, if Members want that.

Yn olaf, byddaf yn falch rhoi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i’r Cynulliad am y datblygiadau. Fel y dywedais, yr wyf wedi trefnu cyfres o gyfarfodydd gydag uwch aelodau etholedig ac uwch swyddogion ym Môn, ac mae cyfarfodydd eraill wedi’u trefnu ar gyfer yr wythnos neu ddwy wedi hynny. Byddaf yn falch ceisio darparu datganiad ysgrifenedig erbyn canol Awst, a byddaf ar gael i wneud datganiad llafar yn gynnar yn nhymor yr hydref, os yw Aelodau’n dymuno hynny.

David Lloyd: Diolch i’r Gweinidog am ei ddatganiad, er bod y materion a drafodwyd yn y datganiad hwnnw yn peri pryder mawr. Yr ydym yn sôn am sefyllfa drychinebus ac unigryw, fel y mae’r Gweinidog eisoes wedi’i olrhain. Mae adroddiad yr archwilydd cyffredinol yn egluro mai’r prosesau gwleidyddol sydd ar fai yn benodol. Nid ydynt yn gweithio’n effeithiol yng Nghyngor Sir Ynys Môn. Nid oes dwywaith am natur ddifrifol yr adroddiad hwn, sy’n olrhain ffaeleddau yn null y cyngor o redeg y sir. Caf ar ddeall bod aelodau Plaid Cymru, sy’n rhan o’r glymblaid bresennol yn Ynys Môn, wedi dweud ers misoedd y byddent yn croesawu ymyrraeth gan Lywodraeth Cymru pe bai’r swyddfa archwilio yn argymell hynny. Yr wyf yn croesawu’n fawr ymateb y Gweinidog y prynhawn yma ac yn cefnogi ei fwriad i edrych o ddifrif ar sut y gellir diwygio’r sefyllfa argyfyngus bresennol.

David Lloyd: I thank the Minister for his statement, although the issues covered in it are a cause for great concern. We are dealing with a terrible and unique situation, as the Minister has already outlined. The auditor general’s report makes it clear that the fault lies squarely with the political processes. They are not working effectively in the Isle of Anglesey County Council. There can be no mistaking the serious nature of this report, as it outlines the failings in the council’s approach to running the county. I am given to understand that members of the Plaid Cymru group, which is a partner in the current coalition on Anglesey, have been saying for months that they would welcome intervention by the Welsh Government if that were the audit office’s recommendation. I strongly welcome the Minister’s response this afternoon, and I support his intention to give serious consideration to how this current terrible situation can be improved.

4.10 p.m.

Mae arweinydd Plaid Cymru ar y cyngor, y cynghorydd Bob Parry, wedi galw ar bawb i weithio gyda’i gilydd er lles dyfodol y cyngor a’r bobl y mae’n eu gwasanaethu. Fodd bynnag, mae cwestiynau y mae’n rhaid eu gofyn, a’r rheini’n debyg i’r cwestiynau a ofynnwyd gan Nick Bourne. Y cwestiwn sy’n codi o sefyllfa argyfyngus ac unigryw fel hon yw pa fath o ymyrraeth sydd ar gael i’r Gweinidog? Beth yw ei fwriad o ran hynny? Mae adroddiad yr archwilydd cyffredinol yn amlygu nam yn y prosesau gwleidyddol, ac yn dweud bod rhai cynghorwyr sir penodol ar fai am hynny. Mae’n anodd dygymod â’r sefyllfa os na fydd gweithredu o ran dyfodol y cynghorwyr sir hynny sydd ar fai. Sut mae’r Gweinidog yn bwriadu gweithredu? Pa fath o sancsiynau sy’n cael eu hystyried ganddo? Beth yw’r amserlen?

Rhaid i reolwyr cyngor Ynys Môn ddysgu gweithio gyda’i gilydd. Mae grŵp Plaid Cymru yn y sir yn cydnabod hynny ac yn croesawu’r bwriad i weithio gyda’i gilydd. Dyna’r hyn y mae pawb yn dymuno ei weld er budd trigolion yr holl ynys.

Brian Gibbons: I agree with your description that this is a fairly disastrous situation and that the report reflects the gravity of the situation. You are right that, predominantly but not exclusively, the political processes have failed the people of Anglesey. It is difficult to be prescriptive in relation to the precise details. However, as I said to Nick Bourne, the seven recommendations give us some steer. We need to work with the local authority to make sure that it develops strategic objectives because, ironically, the report says that this is a political process without political priorities. A political process without political priorities is pretty directionless, and that is at the heart of many of the problems.

Brian Gibbons: Cytunaf â’ch disgrifiad fod hon yn sefyllfa eithaf trychinebus a bod yr adroddiad yn dangos difrifoldeb y sefyllfa. Yr ydych yn gywir i ddweud bod y prosesau gwleidyddol, i raddau helaeth, ond nid yn gyfan gwbl, wedi bradychu pobl Ynys Môn. Mae’n anodd bod yn rhagnodol o ran yr union fanylion. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedais wrth Nick Bourne, mae’r saith argymhelliad yn rhoi rhywfaint o arweiniad inni. Mae angen inni weithio gyda’r awdurdod lleol i sicrhau ei fod yn datblygu amcanion strategol oherwydd, yn eironig ddigon, dywed yr adroddiad bod hon yn broses wleidyddol heb flaenoriaethau gwleidyddol. Mae proses wleidyddol heb flaenoriaethau gwleidyddol yn rhywbeth digon digyfeiriad, a dyna sydd wrth wraidd llawer o’r problemau.

We have to come up with a set of interventions that will allow the authority to build up a relationship with the corporate management team, to explore ways of doing that, and to set in place processes by which strategic priorities will be identified and by which the authority will engage more effectively with its population. The recommendations in the report refer to the behaviour of members. We have to look at the role of the standards committee and how it could be more proactive in engaging with members to establish a better way of behaving. It will also be incumbent on all members to spend more time serving the wider interests of the people of Anglesey, because the report claims, as Nick Bourne said, that the council has been dominated by personality politics. It has also been parochial. Personality politics is not acceptable; elected members have to represent their local area, and they also have wider responsibilities to the population as a whole.

Therefore, I am working with officials and I will be working with the Welsh Local Government Association. I will also be meeting the Wales Audit Office after preliminary meetings with the council’s leadership in Anglesey to test the wide range of possible activities to address the report’s recommendations. By testing them with these organisations and my officials, I hope to be able to present a clear programme of action to the leadership of Anglesey council when I next meet them in late July or early August.

Felly, yr wyf yn gweithio gyda swyddogion a byddaf yn gweithio gyda Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru. Byddaf hefyd yn cwrdd â Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru ar ôl y cyfarfodydd rhagarweiniol gydag arweinwyr y cyngor ym Môn i brofi amrywiaeth eang o weithgareddau posibl i roi sylw i argymhellion yr adroddiad. Drwy eu profi â’r sefydliadau hyn a chyda fy swyddogion, gobeithiaf y gallaf gyflwyno rhaglen weithredu bendant i arweinwyr cyngor Ynys Môn pan fyddaf yn cwrdd â hwy ddiwedd Gorffennaf neu ddechrau Awst.

Peter Black: I thank the Minister for today’s statement. The way that the statement has made its way to the Chamber today has been rather bizarre. We were told yesterday that there was to be a statement on an unspecified topic, but we were not allowed to know the subject of that statement. At 9.37 a.m. we all received an e-mail from the Government’s business department effectively telling us that the statement was on the Isle of Anglesey County Council. By then, we had had several hours of listening to reports on it on the radio, and had also read it in the press. It seems to me that the statement has come to us via the press. I wonder what the priority of the Government is when the press is briefed on issues before Members, and before those issues are brought to the Chamber.

Peter Black: Diolch i’r Gweinidog am ei ddatganiad heddiw. Mae’r modd y daeth y datganiad i’r Siambr heddiw braidd yn rhyfedd. Dywedwyd wrthym ddoe y byddai datganiad am bwnc amhenodol, ond ni chawsom wybod beth oedd pwnc y datganiad hwnnw. Am 9.37 a.m. cawsom i gyd neges e-bost gan adran fusnes y Llywodraeth yn dweud wrthym yn y bôn mai datganiad ynglŷn â Chyngor Ynys Môn ydoedd. Erbyn hynny, yr oeddem wedi cael oriau o wrando ar adroddiadau yn ei gylch ar y radio, ac wedi darllen amdano hefyd yn y wasg. Mae’n ymddangos i mi fod y datganiad wedi’n cyrraedd drwy’r wasg. Yr wyf yn amau beth yw blaenoriaeth y Llywodraeth pan gaiff y wasg wybodaeth am faterion cyn yr Aelodau, a chyn dod â’r materion hynny i’r Siambr.

With regard to the statement itself, it is fair to acknowledge that it is a long-term problem, which relates to the largely dysfunctional nature of the Anglesey council over many years—probably since the re-organisation. It is important that we work with councillors to put right the problems that have been identified. I am interested, Minister, in the fact that you say in your statement—other Members have said the same—that the issue is down to personalities and individual conflicts, and the very parochial nature of Anglesey politics. What is the nature of the intervention that you are anticipating at the Anglesey council? You talked about previous interventions; those have largely related to systems and administrative ways of delivering services, yet the audit report has identified that the services that are being delivered by Anglesey council are up to scratch, and the general service that members of the public on Anglesey can expect to receive from the council is satisfactory. It appears that it will be down to how you can get the councillors to work together to provide the sort of corporate leadership that you have identified in your statement. It would, therefore, be interesting to see what type of intervention you are proposing. Are you talking about mediation? Are you talking about counselling, or some other form of intervention that will help councillors to come to terms with the role that they should have? What use will be made of the various agencies that the WLGA and the Local Government Association have at their disposal to help to train and support councillors in corporate governance issues? I would be grateful for answers to those questions, Minister.

O ran y datganiad ei hun, mae’n deg cydnabod bod hon yn hen broblem sy’n ymwneud â natur gamweithredol gyffredinol cyngor Ynys Môn ers blynyddoedd lawer—ers yr ad-drefnu, mae’n debyg. Mae’n bwysig inni weithio gyda’r cynghorwyr i unioni’r problemau sydd wedi’u nodi. Mae gennyf ddiddordeb, Weinidog, yn y ffaith eich bod yn dweud yn eich datganiad—mae Aelodau eraill wedi dweud yr un peth—mae personoliaethau a gwrthdaro rhwng unigolion yw hanfod hyn, a natur blwyfol iawn gwleidyddiaeth ar Ynys Môn. Beth yw natur yr ymyriad yr ydych yn ei ragweld yng nghyngor Ynys Môn? Crybwyllwyd ymyriadau blaenorol gennych; mae’r rheini wedi ymwneud yn bennaf â systemau a ffyrdd gweinyddol o ddarparu gwasanaethau, ond mae adroddiad yr archwiliad wedi dweud bod y gwasanaethau a ddarperir gan gyngor Ynys Môn yn ddigon da, a bod y gwasanaeth cyffredinol y gall y cyhoedd ddisgwyl ei gael gan y cyngor yn foddhaol. Mae’n ymddangos mai’r broblem yw sut mae llwyddo i gael y cynghorwyr i gydweithio er mwyn darparu’r math o arweiniad corfforaethol yr ydych wedi sôn amdano yn eich datganiad. Felly, byddai’n ddiddorol gweld pa fath o ymyriad yr ydych yn ei gynnig. A ydych yn sôn am gyfryngu? A ydych yn sôn am gwnsela, ynteu am ryw fath arall o ymyrryd a fydd o gymorth i gynghorwyr ddod i delerau â’r rôl a ddylai fod ganddynt? I ba raddau y defnyddir y gwahanol asiantaethau y mae gan CLlLC a’r Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol at eu defnydd i gynorthwyo i hyfforddi a chynorthwyo cynghorwyr mewn materion sy’n ymwneud â llywodraethu corfforaethol? Byddwn yn ddiolchgar am atebion i’r cwestiynau hynny, Weinidog.

Brian Gibbons: Again, because of the unique nature of this situation, there is not a ready-made solution on the shelf that immediately jumps out with regard to addressing these issues. Clearly, support needs to be given to the organisation at a corporate level, so that it is strong enough to be able to give that strategic leadership.

On some of the other things that you mentioned, while there are, undoubtedly, substantial problems in relation to the behaviour of a minority—that is what the Wales Audit Office said—equally, it said that there is goodwill among the majority of councillors. If one was to be overly critical, the one thing that we would say about the majority of the councillors is that they should perhaps be more assertive in bringing the recalcitrant minority to book. We know that some members of the executive team are working well with the heads of department, albeit not in a strategic way. There is some good practice there, on which we can build.

O ran rhai o’r pethau eraill a grybwyllwyd gennych, er bod yna broblemau sylweddol, yn ddiamau, gydag ymddygiad lleiafrif—dyna a ddywedodd Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru—dywedir hefyd fod ewyllys da ymhlith mwyafrif y cynghorwyr. Petai rhywun yn orfeirniadol, yr un peth y byddem yn ei ddweud am fwyafrif y cynghorwyr yw y dylent efallai fod yn fwy cadarn o ran cael trefn ar y lleiafrif ystyfnig. Gwyddom fod rhai o aelodau’r tîm gweithredol yn gweithio’n dda gyda phenaethiaid adrannau, er nad mewn modd strategol. Mae rhai arferion da ar waith yno y gallwn adeiladu arnynt.

Certain things have been highlighted, for example activity in relation to planning, activity in relation to standards and how the standards committee works, and the working relationship between the executive and the corporate management team. There are specific areas of activity where weaknesses have been identified, which gives us a clear steer in relation to where we need to be concentrating our efforts. We are grateful to the Auditor General for Wales and to the Wales Audit Office for producing a helpful report in this way.

Peter’s opening remarks are clearly not for me, but he will realise that the report was only in the public domain as of this morning. That was the basis on which we engaged with the Wales Audit Office, and it certainly would not be appropriate for us to breach the confidentiality between us and the Wales Audit Office.

The Counsel General and Leader of the House (Carwyn Jones): I move that

Y Cwnsler Cyffredinol ac Arweinydd y Tŷ (Carwyn Jones): Cynigiaf fod

the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order No. 22.16(ii), agrees that there should be no detailed consideration by committee of the proposed National Assembly for Wales (Legislative Competence) (Highways and Transport) Order 2009. (NDM4267)

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 22.16(ii), yn cytuno na ddylai Gorchymyn arfaethedig Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru (Cymhwysedd Deddfwriaethol) (Priffyrdd a Thrafnidiaeth) 2009 gael ei ystyried yn fanwl gan bwyllgor. (NDM4267)

Gareth Jones: Mae’r Pwyllgor Menter a Dysgu yn ddiolchgar am y cyfle i gyflwyno rhai sylwadau ar y cynnig hwn mewn perthynas â’r Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol ar briffyrdd a thrafnidiaeth sydd, ynghyd â’r memorandwm esboniadol a osodwyd ar 9 Mehefin, yn ffurfio ein hymateb i’r ddeiseb a gyfeiriwyd at y pwyllgor gan y Pwyllgor Deisebau. Yr oedd y ddeiseb a gyflwynwyd yn Hydref 2007 gan Sustrans, yr elusen dros gludiant cynaliadwy, yn annog y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol i geisio pwerau i alluogi Gweinidogion Cymru i osod dyletswydd ar awdurdodau priffyrdd i ddatblygu a chynnal rhwydwaith o lwybrau di-draffig ar gyfer cerddwyr a beicwyr ledled Cymru.

Gareth Jones: The Enterprise and Learning Committee is grateful for the opportunity to propose this legislative competence Order on highways and transport, which, together with the explanatory memorandum laid on 9 June, is our response to a petition referred to us by the Petitions Committee. The petition, submitted in October 2007 by Sustrans, the sustainable transport charity, urged the National Assembly to seek powers so that Welsh Ministers can impose a duty on highway authorities to develop and maintain a network of traffic-free paths for walkers and cyclists across Wales.

Ar ran y pwyllgor, dymunaf siarad o blaid y cynnig, na ddylai’r Gorchymyn gael ei ystyried yn fanwl gan bwyllgor gan fod y Pwyllgor Menter a Dysgu eisoes wedi ymgynghori a chraffu ar y Gorchymyn arfaethedig.

On behalf of the committee, I speak in favour of the motion, that there should be no detailed consideration of the proposed Order by a committee, as the Enterprise and Learning Committee has already consulted on and scrutinised the proposed Order.

We received 19 written responses to our consultation last year; 13 of those respondents, including the Deputy First Minister, provided additional oral evidence to the committee spread over six evidence sessions. All of that information is published on our website. We subsequently amended the draft wording to take account of the consultation responses and the oral evidence that we heard.

We acknowledged the concerns raised by some disability groups about shared-use routes, and believe that this is an issue that must be addressed in any Measure or delegated legislation arising from the proposed Order, and I would hope that that debate will take place later in the legislative process.

Cydnabuwyd y pryderon a godwyd gan rai grwpiau anabledd ynglŷn â rhannu llwybrau gan wahanol fathau o ddefnyddwyr, a chredwn fod hyn yn fater y mae’n rhaid i unrhyw Fesur neu ddeddfwriaeth ddirprwyedig sy’n codi o’r Gorchymyn hwnnw roi sylw iddo. Byddwn yn gobeithio y bydd y ddadl honno’n digwydd yn ddiweddarach yn y broses deddfu.

We also responded to concerns about the term 'traffic-free routes’ in the draft title of the Order and changed it to 'highways and transport’ so that use by motorised wheelchairs would be permitted.

The overwhelming consensus among respondents was that legislative competence for this matter should be conferred on the National Assembly for Wales. The main reasons in favour of the principle were that, although powers may already rest with Welsh Ministers to encourage highway authorities to take into account walkers and cyclists, they are not sufficiently strong nor enforced; that current legislation in this area is fragmented and would benefit from being overhauled; that a duty on local authorities would encourage a modal transport shift and make Wales comparable to other European countries with regard to walking and cycling; it would encourage healthier lifestyles and promote physical exercise; it would help reduce the use of private cars and, therefore, help address the challenges of climate change; and it would benefit tourism and local economies.

Y consensws llethol gan y rhai a ymatebodd oedd y dylid trosglwyddo cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol ar gyfer y mater hwn i Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru. Y prif resymau o blaid yr egwyddor oedd, er efallai fod gan Weinidogion Cymru bwerau eisoes i annog awdurdodau priffyrdd i ystyried cerddwyr a beicwyr, nad yw’r pwerau hynny nac yn ddigon cryf nac ychwaith yn cael eu gorfodi; bod deddfwriaeth yn y maes hwn ar hyn o bryd yn ddarniog ac y byddai o fudd ei ddiwygio; y byddai rhoi dyletswydd ar awdurdodau lleol yn annog newid moddol ym maes trafnidiaeth ac yn sicrhau bod modd cymharu Cymru â gwledydd eraill yn Ewrop o ran cerdded a beicio; y byddai’n annog ffyrdd iachach o fyw ac yn hyrwyddo ymarfer corff; y byddai’n gymorth i leihau’r defnydd ar geir preifat, ac felly, yn gymorth i fynd i’r afael â heriau newid yn yr hinsawdd; ac y byddai o fudd i dwristiaeth ac i economïau lleol.

The committee was, therefore, convinced of the long-term sustainability of the considerable benefits that would accrue from this proposed Order—economic, social and environmental.

Being conscious of the fact that Westminster support will be important to the success of the proposed Order, I have written to the Deputy First Minister to ask whether he will liaise with the Secretary of State for Wales, asking him to facilitate Whitehall clearance and, eventually, pre-legislative scrutiny in Parliament. We are currently awaiting the Deputy First Minister’s reply.

O gofio y bydd cefnogaeth San Steffan yn bwysig er mwyn sicrhau llwyddiant y Gorchymyn arfaethedig, yr wyf wedi ysgrifennu at y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog i ofyn a wnaiff gysylltu ag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, gan ofyn iddo hwyluso’i hynt yn San Steffan, a maes o law i hwylsuo’r craffu cyn deddfu yn y Senedd yn Llundain. Yr ydym ar hyn o bryd yn disgwyl ymateb y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog.

In conclusion, the Enterprise and Learning Committee is proposing this legislative competence Order, which will contribute to the process of enhancing the legislative powers of the National Assembly for Wales. We believe that the proposed LCO will help Welsh Ministers to deliver on their strategic aims in the areas of transport, environment, tourism and the health and wellbeing of people in Wales.

On the basis that the Enterprise and Learning Committee has already carried out a thorough scrutiny of the need for, and the wording of, this proposed Order, I offer this Committee’s support for the motion.    

David Melding: I shall not repeat the points made by the Chair of the Enterprise and Learning Committee, who led us with his usual great skill through this complicated procedure. However, I must say that we owe a great debt of gratitude to the charity Sustrans, which came forward with a wide-ranging group of other organisations and individuals to present evidence on the need for this proposed LCO, to give us future powers to make Measures to promote cycling, pedestrian paths, dual-use paths and so on, which are referred to in the proposed LCO as traffic-free routes.

David Melding: Nid wyf am ailadrodd y pwyntiau a wnaeth Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Menter a Dysgu, a’n harweiniodd gyda’i ddawn arbennig arferol drwy’r weithdrefn gymhleth hon. Serch hynny, mae ein diolch yn ddyledus iawn, rhaid imi ddweud, i’r elusen Sustrans, a ddaeth ger ein bron gydag amrywiaeth eang o fudiadau ac unigolion eraill i gyflwyno tystiolaeth am yr angen am y Gorchymyn arfaethedig hwn, er mwyn inni gael pwerau yn y dyfodol i wneud Mesurau i hyrwyddo beicio, llwybrau i gerddwyr, llwybrau dau ddefnydd, ac ati, y cyfeirir atynt yn y Gorchymyn arfaethedig fel llwybrau di-draffig.

I think that the Assembly will face a very important decision, presumably in the autumn. I hope that the Government will not strangle this proposed LCO at birth, but allow it to proceed, because the committee worked in a non-partisan fashion, extracting a wide range of evidence from the various interested groups and individuals, and it was our firm view and judgment that this proposed LCO would add very much to the policy aims of the Welsh Assembly Government to improve health and promote sustainable transport alternatives.

Credaf y bydd y Cynulliad yn wynebu penderfyniad pwysig iawn, yn yr hydref, mi dybiaf. Gobeithio na fydd y Llywodraeth yn tagu’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig wrth iddo gael ei eni, ond yn hytrach y bydd yn gadael iddo fynd rhagddo, oherwydd bu’r pwyllgor yn gweithio mewn modd amhleidiol gan gymryd tystiolaeth amrywiol iawn gan y gwahanol grwpiau a’r unigolion sydd â diddordeb. Ein barn a’n penderfyniad cadarn oedd y byddai’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig hwn yn ychwanegu llawer iawn at nodau polisi Llywodraeth y Cynulliad i wella iechyd a hyrwyddo gwahanol ddewisiadau trafnidiaeth gynaliadwy.

Given the evidence that the Deputy First Minister gave to the committee, if the Welsh Assembly Government remains obdurate, we will have set a very poor precedent with regard to the way in which this Assembly legislates in a model that is, perhaps, a little different from the traditional Westminster one, where you can very rarely get anything done unless you have explicit governmental backing. It would show great judgment on the part of the Government if it can see beyond its initial irritation that we have come forward with this, despite the evidence that the Deputy First Minister gave. He was one of only two witnesses who said that this proposed Order was either not necessary or desirable. He felt that it was not necessary and that he could pursue the policy objectives by other means.

O gofio’r dystiolaeth a roddodd y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog i’r pwyllgor, os bydd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn parhau’n ystyfnig, byddwn wedi gosod cynsail wael iawn o ran y ffordd y mae’r Cynulliad hwn yn deddfu mewn model sydd, efallai, fymryn yn wahanol i fodel traddodiadol San Steffan. Yno, prin y gallwch gyflawni dim heb gefnogaeth amlwg y llywodraeth. Byddai’n dangos crebwyll da iawn ar ran y Llywodraeth os gall weld y tu hwnt i’w ffromi cychwynnol am ein bod ni wedi cynnig hyn, er gwaethaf y dystiolaeth a roddodd y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog. Dau dyst yn unig a ddywedodd nad oedd angen y Gorchymyn arfaethedig neu nad oedd yn ddymunol, ac yr oedd ef yn un ohonynt. Teimlai nad oedd ei angen ac y gallai fynd ar drywydd amcanion y polisi drwy ddulliau eraill.

However, if the Welsh Assembly Government denies the proposed LCO the chance to proceed, we will be very much in the traditional Westminster system straitjacket, and we will also have said to civic society, 'Don’t come forward with your ideas unless you can get express endorsement from the Welsh Assembly Government’. I do not think that that is a very creative relationship for us to have. Therefore, I hope that the Government will be big enough to have vision and to accept that, occasionally, its path is perhaps not the best. I hope that it will have a little humility and allow the proposed LCO to proceed, as is the clear wish of the committee on a cross-party basis.

Serch hynny, os bydd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn gwadu cyfle i’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig fynd rhagddo, byddwn i raddau helaeth wedi’n clymu yn system draddodiadol San Steffan, a byddwn hefyd wedi dweud wrth gymdeithas sifil 'Peidiwch â chynnig eich syniadau oni allwch gael cefnogaeth amlwg Llywodraeth y Cynulliad’. Ni chredaf fod hynny’n berthynas greadigol iawn inni ei chael. Felly, gobeithio y bydd y Llywodraeth yn ddigon eangfrydig i ddangos gweledigaeth ac i dderbyn nad ei llwybr hi, weithiau, yw’r un gorau efallai. Gobeithio y bydd yn dangos mymryn o ostyngeiddrwydd gan adael i’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig fynd rhagddo, sef dymuniad clir y pwyllgor ar sail drawsbleidiol.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I remind Members that, if the proposal is agreed, the Chair of the Enterprise and Learning Committee may introduce a draft Order. If the proposal is not agreed, the Business Committee must refer the proposed LCO to a legislation committee for detailed consideration.

The proposal is that the motion be agreed. Is there any objection? I see that there is not. In accordance with Standing Order No. 7.35, the motion is therefore agreed.

Y cynnig yw bod cytuno’r cynnig. A oes gwrthwynebiad? Gwelaf nad oes. Yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 7.35, felly, caiff y cynnig ei dderbyn.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion agreed.

Jeff Cuthbert: I move that

Jeff Cuthbert: Cynigiaf fod

the National Assembly for Wales:

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

approves the National Assembly for Wales code on the different roles and responsibilities of constituency Members and regional Members—drafted by the Committee on Standards of Conduct in accordance with Standing Order No. 1.13 and laid in the Table Office on 3 July 2009. (NDM4271)

You will be aware that the Committee on Standards of Conduct exists to encourage and foster excellent standards of conduct from every Member of this institution. We are charged under our Standing Orders and the Government of Wales Act 2006 with drafting a code or protocol regarding the roles and responsibilities of constituency and regional Members. As Chair, I felt it important that the matter was addressed. I wish to express the committee’s gratitude to Sulafa Halstead and her staff, Keith Bush, our legal adviser, and the Members’ research service. I also wish to pay tribute to the other committee members: Chris Franks, Brynle Williams and Kirsty Williams, who was then replaced by Jenny Randerson.

4.30 p.m.

The Standing Orders require that the code includes provision in line with five specified key principles as well as detail contained in the annex to Standing Order No. 1. Those five key principles, as stated in Standing Order 1.13 are that

Mae’n ofynnol yn ôl y Rheolau Sefydlog i’r cod gynnwys darpariaeth yn unol â phum egwyddor allweddol benodedig yn ogystal â manylion sy’n gynwysedig yn yr atodiad i Reol Sefydlog Rhif 1. Y pum egwyddor allweddol hynny, fel y’u mynegir yn Rheol Sefydlog 1.13 yw

(i) mae pob Aelod dan ddyletswydd i fod ar gael i bobl yr ardaloedd y maent wedi’u hethol i’w gwasanaethu, ac i gynrychioli eu buddiannau’n gydwybodol; (ii) wrth iddynt droi at eu dewis Aelod, dymuniadau’r etholwyr a/neu fuddiannau’r etholaeth neu’r ardal sydd o’r pwys pennaf; (iii) mae gan bob Aelod statws cyfartal; (iv) ni ddylai Aelodau gamliwio ar ba sail y maent wedi’u hethol na pha ardal y maent yn ei gwasanaethu; a (v) ni ddylai Aelod ymdrin ag achos etholaeth neu fater etholaeth nad yw o fewn ei etholaeth neu ei ranbarth (yn ôl yr achos), oni bai drwy gytuno ymlaen llaw.

In preparing the draft code, the committee felt that it was important to have discussions with all the political groups because, ultimately, there needs to be buy-in from Members into any code of this kind. Members of the committee consulted their groups, seeking comments in principle as well as on practical issues, and made provision for the independent Member to submit views.

Wrth baratoi’r cod drafft, teimlai’r pwyllgor ei bod yn bwysig cael trafodaethau gyda’r holl grwpiau gwleidyddol, oherwydd yn y pen draw mae angen i’r Aelodau ymrwymo i unrhyw god o’r math hwn. Ymgynghorodd Aelodau’r pwyllgor â’u grwpiau, gan geisio sylwadau mewn egwyddor yn ogystal â sylwadau ar faterion ymarferol, a gwnaethant ddarpariaeth i’r Aelod annibynnol gyflwyno barn.

We received a number of views and suggestions in response to our request, and in relation to some areas of the code these views were from opposite ends of the spectrum. The committee considered each aspect of the code carefully and made changes, both as a result of the consultation and to give greater clarity in areas such as requirements under the Data Protection Act 1998. Ultimately, most of the concerns were related to matters that the committee felt should be guided by common sense and courtesy. With this in mind, more than anything, and in the light of past experience, the Committee on Standards of Conduct sought to avoid an overprescriptive, restrictive approach in drafting the code.

Cawsom farn ac awgrymiadau niferus mewn ymateb i’n cais, ac yng nghyswllt rhai meysydd o’r cod yr oedd y safbwyntiau hyn yn dod o ddau eithaf y sbectrwm. Ystyriodd y pwyllgor bob agwedd ar y cod yn ofalus a gwnaeth newidiadau, o ganlyniad i’r ymgynghoriad ac i roi mwy o eglurder mewn meysydd megis y gofynion dan Ddeddf Diogelu Data 1998. Yn y pen draw, yr oedd a wnelo’r rhan fwyaf o’r pryderon â materion y teimlai’r pwyllgor a ddylai gael eu harwain gan synnwyr cyffredin a chwrteisi. Gyda hynny mewn golwg, yn fwy na dim, ac yng ngoleuni profiad y gorffennol ceisiodd y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad osgoi ymdriniaeth gaeth, ry ragnodol wrth ddrafftio’r cod.

I hope that Members will agree with me that the ongoing review function undertaken by the Committee on Standards of Conduct offers support to Assembly Members and their commitment to maintaining high standards. I commend this motion to the Assembly.  

Gobeithio y bydd yr Aelodau’n cytuno â mi fod y swyddogaeth adolygu barhaus yr ymgymerwyd â hi gan y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad yn cynnig cymorth i Aelodau Cynulliad a’u hymrwymiad i gynnal safonau uchel. Cymeradwyaf y cynnig hwn i’r Cynulliad.

Mick Bates: I move that

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru: (NDM4268)

notes the report of the Sustainability Committee, 'Carbon Reduction from Energy Production: 4th Report of the Sustainability Committee’s Inquiry into Carbon Reduction in Wales’, which was laid in the Table Office on 13 May 2009. (NDM4268)

yn nodi adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cynaliadwyedd, 'Leihau allyriadau carbon wrth gynhyrchu ynni: Pedwerydd adroddiad ar ymchwiliad y Pwyllgor Cynaliadwyedd i leihau allyriadau carbon yng Nghymru’, a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 13 Mai 2009. (NDM4268)

It gives me great pleasure to present this fourth report by the Sustainability Committee on ways in which we can reduce carbon emissions in Wales. I would like to start by thanking the committee for its positive and consensual approach during this inquiry. I would also like to thank all of those who gave evidence to the committee for their openness and honesty in doing so. I would like to thank all of the committee staff and the clerk for all of the support that we received during this inquiry. I recommend that Members examine the opening chapters of our final report because therein lies some of the best information about energy in Wales and, in particular, renewable energy production, that you will ever get in such a concise form. Therefore, I thank the support staff who helped us during this inquiry.

Mae’n bleser mawr gennyf gyflwyno’r pedwerydd adroddiad hwn gan y Pwyllgor Cynaliadwyedd ar ffyrdd inni leihau allyriadau carbon yng Nghymru. Hoffwn ddechrau drwy ddiolch i’r pwyllgor am y ffordd gadarnhaol, drwy gonsensws, y mae wedi ymdrin â’r ymchwiliad hwn. Hoffwn hefyd ddiolch i bawb a roddodd dystiolaeth i’r pwyllgor am fod mor agored a gonest wrth wneud hynny. Hoffwn ddiolch i holl staff y pwyllgor a’r clerc am yr holl gymorth a gawsom yn ystod yr ymchwiliad hwn. Argymhellaf fod yr Aelodau’n archwilio penodau agoriadol ein hadroddiad terfynol gan y ceir yno rywfaint o’r wybodaeth orau am ynni yng Nghymru ac, yn arbennig, am gynhyrchu ynni adnewyddadwy, a gewch yn unman mewn ffurf mor gryno. Felly, diolchaf i’r staff cymorth a’n cynorthwyodd yn ystod yr ymchwiliad hwn.

Most of us here are aware of where our energy comes from—when we switch the light on or when we cook anything. Many of us are also becoming aware of energy security and the international impact of taking fossil fuel energy from many parts of the world. That impact was brilliantly shown in a recent film, The Age of Stupid, which I hope many people have seen, or will be able to see if they have not already done so. It makes the critical points that lie behind what the Sustainability Committee aims to do. The committee unanimously decided, from day one, to look at how we in Wales could reduce our carbon emissions and contribute to combating climate change.

Mae’r rhan fwyaf ohonom yma yn gwybod o ble y daw ein hynni—pan fyddwn yn cynnau’r golau neu pan fyddwn yn coginio rhywbeth. Mae llawer ohonom hefyd yn dod yn ymwybodol o ddiogelwch ynni ac o effaith ryngwladol cymryd ynni tanwydd ffosil o rannau amrywiol o’r byd. Cafodd yr effaith honno ei dangos yn wych mewn ffilm yn ddiweddar, The Age of Stupid. Gobeithio y bydd llawer o bobl wedi’i gweld, neu y gallant ei gweld os nad ydynt eisoes wedi gwneud hynny. Mae’n gwneud y pwyntiau tyngedfennol sydd wrth wraidd yr hyn y mae’r Pwyllgor Cynaliadwyedd yn ceisio’i gyflawni. Penderfynodd y pwyllgor yn unfrydol, o’r diwrnod cyntaf, edrych ar y ffordd y gallem ni yng Nghymru leihau ein hallyriadau carbon a chyfrannu tuag at y frwydr hyn erbyn newid yn yr hinsawdd.

Our terms of reference were to scrutinise the Government on its target of producing a 3 per cent reduction in carbon by 2011. The background to that is that we have to understand that Wales is a net exporter of energy, which means that our emissions from energy production are higher than those in England, while much of the energy produced in Wales is used in England. As large-scale energy production is not a devolved issue, it is up to the UK Government—and, shortly, it will also be up to the new infrastructure planning commission—to decide where those large energy-producing sites are to be located in Wales.

Ein cylch gorchwyl oedd craffu ar y Llywodraeth parthed ei tharged i sicrhau gostyngiad o 3 y cant mewn carbon erbyn 2011. Y cefndir i hynny yw ei bod yn rhaid inni ddeall bod Cymru’n allforiwr ynni net, sy’n golygu bod ein hallyriadau yn sgil cynhyrchu ynni yn uwch na rhai Lloegr, er bod llawer o’r ynni a gynhyrchir yng Nghymru’n cael ei ddefnyddio yn Lloegr. Gan nad yw cynhyrchu ynni ar raddfa fawr yn fater datganoledig, mater i Lywodraeth y DU—a bydd hefyd yn fater i’r comisiwn cynllunio seilwaith newydd cyn hir—yw penderfynu ble y mae’r safleoedd cynhyrchu ynni mawr hynny i gael eu lleoli yng Nghymru.

We also acknowledge that fossil fuels, such as coal, gas and oil, will continue to produce the majority of our energy for the foreseeable future, and that is at the heart of our problem. It has been argued that we cannot do a lot to reduce emissions from energy production in Wales, but we believe that, through our recommendations, it is possible for the Government to do that, particularly through the expansion of renewable energy and energy efficiency. We are also mindful of the energy security issue that has grown in importance over recent years. Remember that it is these emissions that are responsible for the rise in temperature and, once that temperature reaches a critical point, it will have a devastating effect on the environment.

Yr ydym yn cydnabod hefyd mai tanwydd ffosil, megis glo, nwy ac olew, fydd yn dal i gynhyrchu’r rhan fwyaf o’n hynni hyd y gellir rhagweld, a dyna yw craidd ein problem. Dadleuwyd na allwn wneud llawer i leihau allyriadau yn sgil cynhyrchu ynni yng Nghymru, ond yr ydym ni’n credu ei bod yn bosibl, drwy ein hargymhellion, i’r Llywodraeth wneud hynny, yn enwedig drwy ehangu ynni adnewyddadwy ac effeithlonrwydd ynni. Yr ydym yn ymwybodol hefyd o’r ystyriaethau diogelwch ynni sydd wedi dod yn fwyfwy pwysig dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Cofiwch mai’r allyriadau hyn sy’n gyfrifol am y cynnydd mewn tymheredd ac, unwaith y gwnaiff y tymheredd hwnnw gyrraedd pwynt tyngedfennol, bydd yn cael effaith drychinebus ar yr amgylchedd.

Electricity generation in Wales contributed over a third of the total carbon dioxide emissions in 2005, which is slightly higher than the UK average of 31 per cent. Emissions from electricity generated in Wales increased by 24.8 per cent compared with a reduction of 15.6 per cent in UK emissions over that period. That is the last set of data that we had.

Cyfrannodd cynhyrchu trydan yng Nghymru dros draean o’r holl allyriadau carbon deuocsid yn 2005, sydd fymryn yn uwch na chyfartaledd y DU o 31 y cant. Cynyddodd yr allyriadau o drydan a gynhyrchwyd yng Nghymru 24.8 y cant o’i gymharu â gostyngiad o 15.6 y cant yn allyriadau’r DU dros y cyfnod hwnnw. Dyna’r set ddiweddaraf o ddata a oedd gennym.

In this country, we only have control over decisions about energy-production installations of less than 50 MW on land and 1 MW at sea. That covers only the smallest fossil-fuel energy plants. The arguments around our having more autonomy over large energy-production developments have been well rehearsed in the Chamber, and I know that the Minister supports the Welsh Assembly Government having more powers in this area, in particular over developments producing more than 50 MW, so I do not intend to open that debate again here. However, we believe that the Minister should make her views on siting and the type of technology to be used for any new fossil-fuel energy plants in Wales clear to the UK Government. We recommend that those views should be clearly stated in the forthcoming energy strategy for Wales, which we look forward to seeing.

Yn y wlad hon, mae gennym reolaeth yn unig dros benderfyniadau ynglŷn â gorsafoedd cynhyrchu ynni llai na 50 MW ar dir ac 1 MW ar y môr. Mae hynny’n cwmpasu dim ond y gorsafoedd ynni tanwydd ffosil lleiaf. Mae’r dadleuon ynglŷn â rhoi mwy o reolaeth inni dros ddatblygiadau cynhyrchu ynni mawr wedi eu lleisio droeon yn y Siambr, a gwn fod y Gweinidog o blaid rhoi rhagor o bwerau i Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn y maes hwn, yn enwedig dros ddatblygiadau sy’n cynhyrchu dros 50 MW. Felly, nid wyf yn bwriadu agor y ddadl honno eto yma. Fodd bynnag, credwn y dylai’r Gweinidog ddweud ei barn yn glir wrth Lywodraeth y DU ynglŷn â lleoli a’r math o dechnoleg y dylid ei defnyddio ar gyfer unrhyw orsafoedd ynni tanwydd ffosil newydd yng Nghymru. Argymhellwn y dylai’r farn honno gael ei mynegi’n glir yn y strategaeth ynni i Gymru. Mae dim hi ar fin ymddangos, ac edrychwn ymlaen at ei gweld.

We also strongly support the development of clean technologies and carbon capture and storage as an alternative to current technology used in fossil-fuel generation. We believe that no new fossil-fuel power stations should be built in Wales without their having the capacity for carbon capture and storage, and that those making decisions on where to site them should be mindful of the heat produced in many plants and of the potential for combined heat and power to become a significant feature in the planning and siting of large power stations.

Yr ydym hefyd yn gryf ein cefnogaeth i ddatblygu technolegau glân a dal a storio carbon fel dewis amgen yn lle’r dechnoleg a ddefnyddir ar hyn o bryd wrth gynhyrchu gyda thanwydd ffosil. Credwn na ddylid codi dim gorsafoedd pŵer tanwydd ffosil newydd yng Nghymru heb fod ganddynt y capasiti i ddal a storio carbon, a dylai’r bobl sy’n penderfynu ymhle i’w lleoli fod yn ymwybodol o’r gwres a gynhyrchir mewn llawer o orsafoedd ac o’r potensial i wres a phŵer cyfunedig ddod yn nodwedd o bwys wrth gynllunio a lleoli gorsafoedd pŵer mawr.

I will now concentrate on renewable energy in Wales. One of the most striking things that we heard during our evidence gathering was from Paul Allen, the director of the Centre for Alternative Technology. He said

Canolbwyntiaf yn awr ar ynni adnewyddadwy yng Nghymru. Daeth un o’r pethau mwyaf trawiadol a glywsom tra oeddem yn gwrando ar dystiolaeth gan Paul Allen, cyfarwyddwr y Ganolfan Dechnoleg Amgen. Meddai

'If you look at a renewable energy map of Europe, you will see that Wales is the Saudi Arabia of green electricity—we are most well endowed with it’.

'Os edrychwch chi ar fap ynni adnewyddadwy o Ewrop, gwelwch mai Cymru yw Sawdi-Arabia trydan gwyrdd—ni sydd â’r gwaddol mwyaf ohono’.

As all of us are aware, Saudi Arabia has become an extremely wealthy country through the production of fossil fuels—namely oil and gas—and there is potential for that in Wales, but it would require vision and a determination to implement some of the targets in our report. That would have a massive economic impact. Recently, Ed Miliband talked about 400,000 jobs being created by the new green economy by 2015. As a committee, we believe that it is about taking the same risks in Wales to increase our renewable energy production, which would lower carbon emissions and create jobs at the same time.

Fel y gwyddom i gyd, mae Sawdi-Arabia wedi datblygu’n wlad eithriadol o gyfoethog drwy gynhyrchu tanwydd ffosil—sef olew a nwy—ac mae potensial i hynny yng Nghymru. Ond byddai gofyn gweledigaeth a phenderfyniad i weithredu rhai o’r targedau yn ein hadroddiad. Câi hynny effaith economaidd enfawr. Yn ddiweddar, soniodd Ed Miliband am oddeutu 400,000 o swyddi’n cael eu creu gan yr economi werdd newydd erbyn 2015. Fel pwyllgor, credwn fod a wnelo hyn â chymryd yr un risg yng Nghymru i gynyddu’r ynni adnewyddadwy a gynhyrchir gennym, a fyddai’n arwain at lai o allyriadau carbon ac yn creu swyddi yr un pryd.

We were struck by the fact that the majority of evidence received expressed disappointment at the Welsh Assembly Government’s lack of progress on meeting its renewable energy targets. The most recent technical advice note 8 figures that I have, for example, relating to onshore windfarms, show that only about 60 MW of the 800 MW target has been achieved. There is 700-odd MW stuck in the planning system, and the committee is greatly disappointed by that, since that target is supposed to be met by 2010.

Fe’n trawyd gan y ffaith fod y rhan fwyaf o’r dystiolaeth a ddaeth i law yn mynegi siom am ddiffyg cynnydd Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru o ran cyrraedd ei thargedau ynni adnewyddadwy. Mae’r ffigurau diweddaraf sydd gennyf ar nodyn technegol 8, er enghraifft, yng nghyswllt ffermydd gwynt ar y tir, yn dangos mai 60 MW yn unig o’r targed o 800 MW sydd wedi ei wireddu. Mae rhyw 700 MW yn gaeth i’r gyfundrefn gynllunio, ac mae’r pwyllgor yn siomedig iawn ynglŷn â hynny, gan mai’r nod oedd cyrraedd y targed hwnnw erbyn 2010.

4.40 p.m.

The targets themselves were also seen as a problem. There are at least four different documents giving Welsh Assembly Government targets, in addition to those set out by the UK Government and the EU. There appears to be too much focus on producing targets and strategies and not enough focus on how they will be achieved. At this stage, I will quote Ian Draisey from Dulas Ltd, who said

Ystyrid bod y targedau eu hunain hefyd yn broblem. Mae o leiaf bedair dogfen wahanol yn rhoi targedau i Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, yn ychwanegol at y rhai sydd wedi eu gosod allan gan Lywodraeth y DU a’r UE. Mae’n ymddangos bod gormod o ganolbwyntio ar gynhyrchu targedau a strategaethau a rhy ychydig o ganolbwyntio ar y ffordd y cânt eu gwireddu. Dyfynnaf Ian Draisey, o Dulas Cyf, a ddywedodd

'I take a sharp intake of breath every time I hear those targets, as do the people responsible for setting them, I am sure. They are ambitious and fantastic targets, but a little sprinkling of reality might be needed.’

Byddaf yn tynnu anadl sydyn bob tro wrth glywed y targedau hynny, fel y bydd y bobl sy’n gyfrifol am eu gosod, mae’n siŵr gennyf. Maent yn dargedau uchelgeisiol a gwych, ond efallai fod angen ychydig realiti.

We believe that targets should be challenging, but also that they should be clear and based on sound data as to what is achievable. We want to see the Government putting more emphasis on how targets can be achieved and on supporting those who have developed good practice. Within that, our section on the mix of technologies, of course, makes great sense.

Credwn y dylai targedau fod yn heriol, ond hefyd y dylent fod yn glir ac wedi’u seilio ar ddata cadarn am yr hyn sy’n gyraeddadwy. Yr ydym am weld y Llywodraeth yn rhoi mwy o bwyslais ar y ffordd y gellir cyrraedd targedau ac ar gefnogi’r rhai sydd wedi datblygu ymarfer da. O fewn hynny, mae ein hadran ar y cyfuniad o dechnolegau, wrth gwrs, yn synhwyrol iawn.

An issue that cropped up throughout our inquiry was the role of the planning system in carbon reduction. As I mentioned earlier, the increasingly important independent infrastructure planning commission has been established in the recent Planning Act in Westminster. We will be discussing the role of planning in more depth in our final report, when we will eventually put together all our work on carbon reduction in Wales.

Mater a gododd drwy’r ymchwiliad ar ei hyd oedd rôl y system gynllunio wrth ostwng lefelau carbon. Fel y soniais yn gynharach, mae’r comisiwn cynllunio seilwaith annibynnol sy’n dod yn gynyddol bwysig wedi ei sefydlu gan y Ddeddf Cynllunio ddiweddar yn San Steffan. Byddwn yn trafod rôl cynllunio’n fanylach yn ein hadroddiad terfynol, pan fyddwn yn y pen draw yn dod â’n holl waith ar ostwng lefelau carbon yng Nghymru at ei gilydd.

One of the most contentious parts of this inquiry was about renewable energy developments—in particular, windfarm developments. We believe that community engagement is the key factor in the success of any large-scale windfarm scheme. While there is potential for renewable energy installations to disrupt the lives of many communities in Wales, there are also potentially great benefits for communities from having renewable energy close by or even in the community. Many communities have already benefited from windfarm projects and we believe that early engagement with the community and the dissemination of good practice on community benefit schemes should help to alleviate many of the problems that are being encountered. It must be possible to meet the climate change challenge and address environmental impacts at the same time as having a social impact by regenerating many of the rural communities that are near to these large windfarm developments. The success of renewable energy projects will also be dependent on the infrastructure available to them. By this, we mean the grid infrastructure in order to get the electricity from the windfarms. The development of smart grids will help greatly with microgeneration of up to 5MW, as described in TAN 8, so that the electricity produced can be directed to the community that is closest to it. Smart grids can do that, although it is quite early in their development.

Yr oedd a wnelo un o rannau mwyaf dadleuol yr ymchwiliad hwn â datblygiadau ynni adnewyddadwy—yn arbennig datblygiadau ffermydd gwynt. Credwn mai ymwneud cymunedol yw’r ffactor allweddol yn llwyddiant unrhyw gynllun fferm wynt ar raddfa fawr. Er bod potensial i safleoedd ynni adnewyddadwy darfu ar fywydau nifer o gymunedau yng Nghymru, mae manteision mawr posibl hefyd i gymunedau yn sgil cael ynni adnewyddadwy yn agos wrth law neu hyd yn oed yn y gymuned. Mae nifer o gymunedau eisoes wedi elwa o brosiectau ffermydd gwynt, a chredwn y dylai cysylltu buan â’r gymuned a lledaenu arferion da o ran cynlluniau budd cymunedol helpu lliniaru llawer o’r problemau a wynebir. Rhaid ei bod yn bosibl cwrdd â her y newid yn yr hinsawdd a rhoi sylw i’r effeithiau amgylcheddol ar yr un pryd â chael effaith gymdeithasol drwy adfywio llawer o’r cymunedau gwledig sy’n agos at y datblygiadau ffermydd gwynt mawr hyn. Bydd llwyddiant prosiectau ynni adnewyddadwy hefyd yn dibynnu ar y seilwaith a fydd ar gael iddynt. Wrth hyn, golygwn y seilwaith grid i fynd â’r trydan o’r ffermydd gwynt. Bydd datblygu gridiau bach yn help mawr gyda microgynhyrchu hyd at 5MW, fel y disgrifir yn TAN 8, fel y gall y trydan a gynhyrchir gael ei gyfeirio i’r gymuned sydd agosaf ato. Gall gridiau bach wneud hynny, er ei bod yn weddol gynnar yn eu datblygiad.

I would like to finish with microgeneration because I believe that microgeneration has massive potential. The targets expressed by the Government are high: 100,000 installations by 2020. That is a commendable target and I hope that it can be reached. I believe that microgeneration will play a great, educational part in changing behaviour so that households and communities can lead the way. Of course, the advent of feed-in tariffs should play a great part in advancing payment for energy produced. I was pleased to be at the Energy Saving Trust’s launch of its Green Communities programme yesterday as it knits in to giving advice so that we can get funding because, at the end of the day, the funding for microgeneration has to be proactive. We commend schemes like the one in Kirklees, where local authority grants are made available for microgeneration. I think that a scheme like that, coupled with the UK Government’s low carbon buildings programme, would lead to a massive increase in microgeneration, which I know that the Minister would like to see and it would create more jobs in Wales.

Hoffwn orffen gyda microgynhyrchu, oherwydd credaf fod potensial enfawr i ficrogynhyrchu. Mae’r targedau a fynegwyd gan y Llywodraeth yn uchel: 100,000 o safleoedd erbyn 2020. Mae hwnnw’n darged clodwiw, a gobeithio y bydd modd ei gyrraedd. Credaf y bydd i ficrogynhyrchu ran addysgol fawr wrth newid ymddygiad, fel y gall aelwydydd a chymunedau arwain y ffordd. Wrth gwrs, dylai dyfodiad tariffau bwydo-i-mewn chwarae rhan fawr drwy ddarparu tâl am yr ynni a gynhyrchir. Yr oeddwn yn falch o fod yn lansiad yr Ymddiriedolaeth Arbed Ynni o’i rhaglen Cymunedau Gwyrdd ddoe, oherwydd mae’n mynd law yn llaw â rhoi cyngor fel y gallwn gael cyllid, oherwydd yn y pen draw rhaid i’r cyllid ar gyfer microgynhyrchu fod yn rhagweithiol. Yr ydym yn cymeradwyo cynlluniau fel hwnnw yn Kirklees, lle darperir grantiau gan yr awdurdod lleol ar gyfer microgynhyrchu. Credaf y byddai cynllun fel hwnnw, ynghyd â rhaglen adeiladau carbon isel Llywodraeth y DU, yn arwain at gynnydd enfawr mewn microgynhyrchu, rhywbeth y gwn yr hoffai’r Gweinidog ei weld, a byddai’n creu rhagor o swyddi yng Nghymru.

I am pleased that the Government has accepted all but two of our recommendations. We hope that the revision of TAN 8 that we called for will cover not only marine renewables, but combined heat and power schemes. Our recommendation on using a mix of renewable energy to meet the EU’s 2020 target of 20 per cent of energy being produced from renewable sources came about because of the evidence that we received that that target could not be met without the inclusion of the Severn estuary energy scheme. By the Minister’s own admission, that scheme will not be implemented before 2020, therefore how will that target be reached? We look for a cohesive answer from the Minister on how she will reach that target without having the Severn estuary energy scheme in place before 2020. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s comments and those of other Members.

Yr wyf yn falch fod y Llywodraeth wedi derbyn pob un ond dau o’n hargymhellion. Gobeithio y bydd diwygio TAN 8 fel y galwasom amdano yn ymdrin nid yn unig ag ynni adnewyddadwy môr, ond â chynlluniau gwres a phŵer cyfunedig. Lluniwyd ein hargymhelliad ar ddefnyddio cyfuniad o ynni adnewyddadwy er mwyn cyrraedd targed 2020 yr UE o gynhyrchu 20 y cant o ynni o ffynonellau adnewyddadwy, oherwydd y dystiolaeth a gawsom na fyddai modd cyrraedd y targed hwnnw heb gynnwys cynllun ynni aber afon Hafren. Yn ôl cyfaddefiad y Gweinidog ei hun, ni chaiff y cynllun hwnnw ei weithredu cyn 2020, felly, sut mae cyrraedd y targed hwnnw? Yr ydym yn ceisio ateb cydlynol gan y Gweinidog ar y modd y bydd yn cyrraedd y targed hwnnw mewn sefyllfa lle na fydd cynllun ynni moryd afon Hafren wedi’i sefydlu cyn 2020. Edrychaf ymlaen at glywed sylwadau’r Gweinidog a sylwadau Aelodau eraill.

The Minister for Environment, Sustainability and Housing (Jane Davidson): Once again I welcome not only the Sustainability Committee’s report on this occasion, but the fact that it is undertaking work on carbon reduction. I also welcome the UK Government’s announcement today on the renewable energy strategy, the White Papers on climate change and energy, the transport plan and other associated strategies. Clearly, we need to continue to work in partnership with the UK Government to implement all of these strategies in pursuit of our climate change objectives. The Assembly Government takes these decisions within the principles of the sustainable development framework.

Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd, Cynaliadwyedd a Thai (Jane Davidson): Unwaith eto, yr wyf yn croesawu nid yn unig adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cynaliadwyedd y tro hwn, ond y ffaith ei fod yn ymgymryd â gwaith ar leihau carbon. Yr wyf hefyd yn croesawu cyhoeddiad Llywodraeth y DU heddiw ynglŷn â’r strategaeth ynni adnewyddadwy, y Papurau Gwyn ar y newid yn yr hinsawdd ac ynni, y cynllun trafnidiaeth a strategaethau cysylltiedig eraill. Mae’n amlwg fod angen inni ddal i weithio mewn partneriaeth â Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig i weithredu pob un o’r strategaethau hyn er mwyn cyflawni ein hamcanion ar newid yn yr hinsawdd. Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn gwneud y penderfyniadau hyn yn unol ag egwyddorion y fframwaith datblygu cynaliadwy.

The development of cleaner energy sources is fundamental to climate change mitigation and, in the wider context, to realising our vision for a more sustainable Wales. The committee’s report and its recommendations cover many areas. I do not intend to address all the recommendations in the report in my allotted time, because the Assembly Government’s written response does that. However, it is important to clarify those issues in light of your six headline recommendations, which have all been accepted, accepted in principle or in part.

Mae’n hanfodol inni ddatblygu ffynonellau ynni glanach er mwyn lleihau effeithiau newid yn yr hinsawdd, ac yn y cyd-destun ehangach er mwyn gwireddu’n gweledigaeth ar gyfer Cymru fwy cynaliadwy. Mae adroddiad y pwyllgor a’i argymhellion yn ymdrin â nifer o feysydd. Nid wyf yn bwriadu rhoi sylw i holl argymhellion yr adroddiad yn yr amser a bennwyd ar fy nghyfer, gan fod ymateb ysgrifenedig Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn gwneud hynny. Serch hynny, mae’n bwysig egluro’r materion hynny yng ngoleuni’r chwe phrif argymhelliad, sydd i gyd wedi eu derbyn, eu derbyn mewn egwyddor neu eu derbyn yn rhannol.

Headline recommendation 1 focuses on our energy strategy and a strategic framework for all energy production in Wales, which we accept in principle. The 2008 renewable energy route-map, launched in February 2008—it seems a very long time ago in the energy debate—will inform the development of an overarching energy strategy for Wales by the end of 2009. That strategy will outline the contribution expected from a range of renewable energy sources beyond 2010, as well as setting out the wider energy issues concerning the security of supply. As we have said, following the publication of the energy strategy, technical advice note 8, on renewable energy, will be reviewed and targets revised upwards.

Mae prif argymhelliad 1 yn canolbwyntio ar ein strategaeth ynni ac ar fframwaith strategol ar gyfer yr holl waith cynhyrchu ynni yng Nghymru. Yr ydym yn derbyn egwyddor yr argymhelliad hwn. Bydd trywydd ynni adnewyddadwy 2008, a lansiwyd ym mis Chwefror 2008—mae’n teimlo fel amser maith yn ôl yn y ddadl ar ynni—yn sail ar gyfer y gwaith o ddatblygu strategaeth ynni drosfwaol ar gyfer Cymru erbyn diwedd 2009. Bydd y strategaeth honno’n amlinellu’r cyfraniad a ddisgwylir gan wahanol ffynonellau ynni adnewyddadwy ar ôl 2010, yn ogystal â gosod allan y materion ynni ehangach sy’n ymwneud â sicrwydd cyflenwad. Fel yr ydym wedi ei ddweud, ar ôl cyhoeddi’r strategaeth ynni bydd nodyn cyngor technegol 8, ar ynni adnewyddadwy, yn cael ei adolygu a chaiff y targedau eu hadolygu a’u codi.

We said in the context of our renewable energy route-map that within 20 years, Wales could generate as much electricity from renewable sources as it consumes as a nation. I must say that given how this debate is going, those numbers are likely to increase in our energy strategy at the end of the year.

Dywedasom yng nghyd-destun ein trywydd ynni adnewyddadwy y gallai Cymru, ymhen 20 mlynedd, gynhyrchu cymaint o drydan o ffynonellau adnewyddadwy ag y mae’r wlad gyfan yn ei ddefnyddio. Rhaid imi ddweud, o ystyried sut y mae’r ddadl hon yn datblygu, fod y niferoedd hynny’n debygol o godi yn ein strategaeth ynni ar ddiwedd y flwyddyn.

It is our belief that the largest contribution towards this ambition will come from marine renewables. In 2007, we commissioned the marine renewable energy strategic framework as a three-year programme to capture the relevant environmental data from the seas of Wales to improve our understanding of the marine resource. Alongside that research, tomorrow, I will publish a statement on marine energy in Wales, which proposes how we can start to maximise the significant marine energy resource from around our coasts as soon as possible, with the minimum local environmental impact.

Credwn mai ynni adnewyddadwy môr fydd yn cyfrannu fwyaf at yr uchelgais hwn. Yn 2007, comisiynwyd fframwaith strategol gennym ar ynni adnewyddadwy’r môr fel rhaglen dair blynedd i gasglu’r data amgylcheddol perthnasol o foroedd Cymru er mwyn gwella’n dealltwriaeth o’r adnoddau’r môr. I gyd-fynd â’r gwaith ymchwil hwnnw, byddaf yn cyhoeddi datganiad yfory ar ynni’r môr yng Nghymru. Bydd y datganiad hwnnw’n gosod allan sut y gallwn ddechrau ddefnyddio mwy o adnodd ynni môr sylweddol sydd o amgylch ein harfordiroedd cyn gynted ag y bo modd, gan gael cyn lleied â phosibl o effaith ar yr amgylchedd lleol.

Recommendations 2 and 3 are linked to the first recommendation in respect of the improvements that will need to be made to the electricity grid and transport infrastructures and we have accepted those in part. On the grid, we engage with distributors and transmitters and the Office of the Gas and Electricity Markets about the need for grid strengthening in Wales. We welcome the recent proposals to speed up connections of renewable energy projects and National Grid’s full engagement in that. The First Minister and I will continue to hold meetings with the National Grid, in which we have made our views on shorter connection times clear.

Mae argymhellion 2 a 3 yn gysylltiedig â’r argymhelliad cyntaf, o ran y gwelliannau y bydd angen eu gwneud i’r grid trydan a’r seilwaith trafnidiaeth, ac yr ydym yn derbyn y rheini’n rhannol. O ran y grid, yr ydym yn trafod yr angen i gryfhau’r grid yng Nghymru gyda dosbarthwyr a throsglwyddwyr a Swyddfa’r Marchnadoedd Nwy a Thrydan. Yr ydym yn croesawu’r cynigion a wnaethpwyd yn ddiweddar i gyflymu’r broses o gysylltu prosiectau ynni adnewyddadwy a rhan lawn y Grid Cenedlaethol yn y gwaith hwnnw. Bydd y Prif Weinidog a minnau’n dal i gael cyfarfodydd gyda’r Grid Cenedlaethol, ac yr ydym wedi mynegi ein barn yn glir yn y cyfarfodydd hynny ynglŷn ag amseroedd cysylltu byrrach.

On transport infrastructure, that is mainly a restraint with regard to large onshore wind projects that are located in remote areas. The size and output of wind turbines has increased substantially in the years since the publication of TAN 8. I am fully aware that the transportation of component parts and construction materials, particularly in mid Wales, presents a major challenge. That needs a strategic approach, which is being prepared by the Assembly Government’s transport team. The British Wind Energy Association has a major role to play in the ongoing discussions between industry developers, stakeholders, local highway authorities and the Assembly Government’s transport experts. I want to do what I can to help in this process and I am pleased that your report acknowledges the importance of well-placed wind in this agenda.

O ran seilwaith trafnidiaeth, mae’r cyfyngiad hwn yn ymwneud yn bennaf â phrosiectau gwynt mawr ar y tir sydd mewn ardaloedd anghysbell. Mae maint ac allbwn tyrbinau gwynt wedi cynyddu’n sylweddol yn ystod y blynyddoedd ers cyhoeddi TAN 8. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol iawn fod cludo cydrannau a deunyddiau adeiladu yn dipyn o her, yn enwedig yn y canolbarth. Mae hynny’n galw am ddull strategol, sy’n cael ei baratoi gan dîm trafnidiaeth Llywodraeth y Cynulliad. Mae gan Gymdeithas Ynni Gwynt Prydain ran bwysig yn y trafodaethau sy’n mynd ymlaen rhwng datblygwyr diwydiannau, rhanddeiliaid, awdurdodau priffyrdd lleol ac arbenigwyr trafnidiaeth Llywodraeth y Cynulliad. Yr wyf yn awyddus i wneud popeth posibl i helpu gyda’r broses hon, ac yr wyf yn falch fod eich adroddiad yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd gwynt mewn lleoliadau da yn yr agenda hon.

Your fourth recommendation calls for the Assembly Government to simplify the targets set for carbon reduction and we accept that. Our sustainable development scheme is our overarching framework. All our targets and actions need to be consistent with the vision set out in the scheme. I will review our targets for our carbon reduction objectives in the climate change strategy, national energy efficiency and savings plan and our forthcoming overarching energy strategy.

Mae eich pedwerydd argymhelliad yn galw ar Lywodraeth y Cynulliad i symleiddio’r targedau sydd wedi eu gosod ar gyfer lleihau carbon, ac yr ydym yn derbyn hynny. Ein cynllun datblygu cynaliadwy yw ein fframwaith trosfwaol. Mae angen i’n holl dargedau a’n gweithredoedd fod yn gyson â’r weledigaeth a amlinellwyd yn y cynllun. Byddaf yn adolygu’n targedau ar gyfer ein hamcanion lleihau carbon yn y strategaeth ar y newid yn yr hinsawdd, y cynllun cenedlaethol ar gyfer effeithlonrwydd ac arbedion ynni, a’r strategaeth ynni drosfwaol y byddwn yn ei chyhoeddi cyn bo hir.

We have accepted recommendation 5 on green jobs in principle. The green jobs strategy was published last week. It sets the framework for assessing and capturing employment opportunities created by a move to a sustainable, low-carbon economy, and it looks at how we can identify the support and skills needed for the development, manufacture, and installation of sustainable technologies. Members will have an opportunity to debate that early in the autumn.

Yr ydym wedi derbyn egwyddor argymhelliad 5 ar swyddi gwyrdd. Cyhoeddwyd y strategaeth swyddi gwyrdd yr wythnos diwethaf. Mae’n pennu’r fframwaith ar gyfer asesu a manteisio ar gyfleoedd cyflogaeth sy’n cael eu creu o ganlyniad i droi at economi gynaliadwy, carbon isel, ac mae’n edrych ar y ffordd y gallwn nodi’r gefnogaeth a’r sgiliau y mae eu hangen ar gyfer datblygu, cynhyrchu a gosod technolegau cynaliadwy. Caiff Aelodau gyfle i drafod hynny yn gynnar yn yr hydref.

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We have also accepted the recommendation on microgeneration loans in principle. The climate change strategy includes a proposal to develop and secure alternative sources of funding to deliver a financing package to support loans for energy efficiency and microgeneration in able-to-pay households. We are looking at how to take that forward. You are aware that we have only, in a sense, rejected two recommendations, and it is probably worth me saying a sentence at this point about why we rejected those recommendations.

Yr ydym hefyd wedi derbyn egwyddor yr argymhelliad ar fenthyciadau microgynhyrchu. Mae’r strategaeth ar y newid yn yr hinsawdd yn cynnwys cynnig i ddatblygu a sicrhau ffynonellau ariannol eraill er mwyn darparu pecyn ariannu i gefnogi benthyciadau ar gyfer effeithlonrwydd ynni a microgynhyrchu mewn cartrefi sydd â’r modd i dalu. Yr ydym yn ystyried sut i symud hynny ymlaen. Gwyddoch mai dau argymhelliad yn unig yr ydym wedi eu gwrthod, ar un olwg, ac mae’n debyg y byddai’n werth imi ddweud brawddeg yn awr i egluro pam yr ydym wedi gwrthod yr argymhellion hynny.

On the recommendation that a scheme in the Severn estuary is not required in Wales to meet the 2020 targets, we say in our response that some of the schemes on the table in the context of the shortlist would not be in place by 2020. What we want to do is to look at the most environmentally responsible way of releasing the River Severn’s massive low-carbon energy resource potential. I hope that your committee, in this recommendation, was not suggesting that we should not do that. It is important that we continue to work together to achieve that.

O ran yr argymhelliad nad oes angen cynllun ar aber afon Hafren yng Nghymru er mwyn cyrraedd targedau 2020, yr ydym yn dweud yn ein hymateb na fyddai rhai o’r cynlluniau sydd ar y bwrdd yng nghyd-destun y rhestr fer yn barod erbyn 2020. Yr hyn y mae arnom eisiau ei wneud yw edrych ar y ffordd fwyaf cyfrifol o safbwynt yr amgylchedd i ryddhau potensial aruthrol afon Hafren fel adnodd ynni carbon isel. Yr wyf yn gobeithio nad oedd eich pwyllgor, yn yr argymhelliad hwn, yn awgrymu na ddylem wneud hynny. Mae’n bwysig inni ddal i weithio gyda’n gilydd er mwyn cyflawni hynny.

On your recommendation for TAN 8 to include all forms of renewable energy, including marine renewables, I am afraid that TAN 8 is specific planning guidance. Clearly, in policy terms, we will include all marine renewables, but, in the context of TAN 8, for offshore installations Welsh Ministers are responsible for licensing under the Food and Environmental Protection Act 1985, not the Coastal Protection Act 1949. Therefore, deposits in the sea are regulated by the Food and Environmental Protection Act rather than through the planning system, although we will continue to have a consenting role with regard to offshore installations. Marine renewables will be covered by a new system of marine planning, to be introduced under the Marine and Coastal Access Bill. We will be picking that aspect up under that agenda. It is, therefore, a technical response. It is not that we do not want to look at all these issues together. We will do that in policy terms, but the TAN is specific planning guidance, and it needs to continue to do its job. We will be revising the targets in the TAN upwards according to our manifesto commitment, based on evidence. I am entirely happy to accept the challenge from Dulas and others about what we should be doing now that we have much more evidence to make sure that we have good evidence for the targets that we set in the energy strategy.

O ran eich argymhelliad y dylai TAN 8 gynnwys pob math o ynni adnewyddadwy, gan gynnwys ynni adnewyddadwy’r môr, mae arnaf ofn mai cyfarwyddyd cynllunio penodol yw TAN 8. Wrth gwrs, o ran polisïau, byddwn yn cynnwys holl ynni adnewyddadwy’r môr, ond yng nghyd-destun TAN 8, ar gyfer gosodiadau ar y môr, mae Gweinidogion Cymru’n gyfrifol am drwyddedu dan Ddeddf Diogelu Bwyd a’r Amgylchedd 1985, yn hytrach na Deddf Amddiffyn y Glannau 1949. O ganlyniad, caiff yn y môr eu rheoleiddio gan y Ddeddf Diogelu Bwyd a’r Amgylchedd yn hytrach na thrwy’r system gynllunio, er y bydd gennym rôl ganiatáu o hyd yng nghyswllt gosodiadau ar y môr. Bydd ynni adnewyddadwy’r môr yn cael ei gwmpasu gan system newydd o gynllunio môr, a gyflwynir dan y Mesur Mynediad i’r Môr a’r Arfordir. Byddwn yn mynd ar ôl yr agwedd honno dan yr agenda honno. Felly, ymateb technegol yw hwn. Nid yw hyn yn golygu nad ydym yn awyddus i ofalu am yr holl faterion hyn gyda’i gilydd. Byddwn yn gwneud hynny o ran polisi, ond mae’r TAN yn gyfarwyddyd cynllunio penodol, ac mae angen iddo ddal i wneud ei waith. Byddwn yn adolygu’r targedau sydd yn y TAN ac yn eu codi yn unol â’r ymrwymiad yn ein maniffesto, ar sail tystiolaeth. Yr wyf yn fwy na bodlon derbyn yr her gan Dulas ac eraill ynglŷn â’r hyn y dylem fod yn ei wneud yn awr, gan fod gennym lawer mwy o dystiolaeth i sicrhau bod gennym dystiolaeth dda ar gyfer y targedau a bennwyd gennym yn y strategaeth ynni.

Leanne Wood: In terms of climate change and carbon emissions, the energy sector is key. We simply cannot continue to use fossil-fuel-based energy to the extent to which we have become used. Although the committee accepted that fossil fuels will have to form part of our energy mix, at least in the short term, not only do we urgently need to reduce our consumption, we also need to move towards producing a greater proportion of our energy from renewable sources. That is why the Assembly Government’s energy route-map is such an important document. The route-map is ambitious and progressive.

Leanne Wood: O ran y newid yn yr hinsawdd ac allyriadau carbon, mae’r sector ynni’n allweddol. Y gwir amdani yw na allwn ddal i ddefnyddio ynni sy’n seiliedig ar danwydd ffosil i’r un graddau. Er bod y pwyllgor wedi derbyn y bydd yn rhaid i danwydd ffosil fod yn rhan o’n cyfuniad ynni, o leiaf yn y tymor byr, mae angen inni leihau ein defnydd ar frys, ac mae angen inni symud hefyd tuag at gynhyrchu cyfran fwy o’n hynni o ffynonellau adnewyddadwy. Dyna pam y mae trywydd ynni Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn ddogfen mor bwysig. Mae’r trywydd yn uchelgeisiol ac yn flaengar.

My concern—which I have expressed here on numerous occasions—is that while Assembly Members may be committed to expanding renewable energy production, our efforts are undermined by decisions made elsewhere. The Assembly is unable to take decisions about energy planning and strategy. In fact, we can only take decisions here about energy consents that are smaller than 50 MW on land, and we will soon have responsibility for consents for projects up to 100 MW at sea.

Fy mhryder—ac yr wyf wedi ei fynegi yma droeon—yw bod Aelodau’r Cynulliad o bosibl wedi ymrwymo i gynhyrchu mwy o ynni adnewyddadwy, ond bod ein hymdrechion yn cael eu tanseilio gan benderfyniadau sy’n cael eu gwneud mewn mannau eraill. Ni all y Cynulliad wneud penderfyniadau’n ymwneud â chynllunio ynni a strategaeth ynni. Mewn gwirionedd, yr unig benderfyniadau y gallwn eu gwneud yma yw’r rhai sy’n ymwneud â chaniatâd ar gyfer prosiectau ynni llai na 50 MW ar dir, a chyn hir byddwn yn gyfrifol am ganiatâd ar gyfer prosiectau sy’n cynhyrchu hyd at 100 MW ar y môr.

I know that the Government supports the call for responsibility for energy consents that are greater than 50 MW to be devolved to the Assembly, but I am concerned that we appear to see no progress in this regard. The lack of powers in this area means that the Westminster Government, through the Infrastructure Planning Commission, can take decisions that will have huge implications for us in Wales. For example, we have been powerless to prevent the horrifically carbon-emitting Ffos-y-Frân opencast coal site from going ahead. We have been powerless to prevent the hugely carbon-emitting liquid natural gas power station from going ahead. Carbon emissions in Wales have increased in recent years, and with big energy projects such as that being decided elsewhere, do we really stand a chance of decreasing our greenhouse gas emissions?

Gwn fod y Llywodraeth yn cefnogi’r galw am ddatganoli’r cyfrifoldeb dros ganiatâd ar gyfer prosiectau ynni dros 50 MW i’r Cynulliad, ond yr wyf yn bryderus nad ydym yn gweld dim cynnydd yn y cyswllt hwn. Mae’r diffyg pwerau yn y maes hwn yn golygu y gall y Llywodraeth yn Llundain, drwy’r Comisiwn Cynllunio Seilwaith, wneud penderfyniadau a fydd yn arwain at oblygiadau aruthrol inni yng Nghymru. Er enghraifft, nid ydym wedi gallu gwneud dim i atal safle glo brig Ffos-y-frân, sydd ag allyriadau carbon dychrynllyd, rhag mynd yn ei flaen. Nid ydym wedi gallu gwneud dim i atal yr orsaf bŵer nwy hylifedig naturiol, sydd ag allyriadau carbon enfawr, rhag mynd yn ei blaen. Mae allyriadau carbon yng Nghymru wedi cynyddu yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf, a chan fod penderfyniadau ar brosiectau ynni mawr fel hwnnw’n cael eu gwneud mewn mannau eraill, a oes gobaith mewn gwirionedd inni leihau ein hallyriadau nwyon tŷ gwydr?

The committee took reams of evidence, which included many simple ideas about ways of reducing our carbon emissions and other greenhouse gas emissions. There are many practical recommendations, which have mostly been accepted by the Government, but I want to briefly address the recommendations that relate to community benefits from renewable energy projects. I know that the Minister spends a considerable amount of time discussing the question of wind power and trying to persuade people on it. I also seem to spend a considerable amount of my time doing that. However, I am firmly of the view that it would be much easier to persuade communities to accept windfarm developments if they had a real stake in those developments. I know that funds are available to communities from windfarm developers, but it is not enough. I know of a scheme in Scotland where the community owns two turbines. It must pay to maintain the turbines, but the profit made from them amounts to around £100,000 a year, and that money is available for reinvestment in community initiatives. There is also an example in Wales of a community-owned turbine, in Hermon in Carmarthenshire, which, I understand, makes around £35,000 a year for that community.

Cafodd y pwyllgor lond gwlad o dystiolaeth, a oedd yn cynnwys nifer o syniadau syml ynglŷn â ffyrdd i leihau ein hallyriadau carbon ac allyriadau nwyon tŷ gwydr eraill. Mae yna nifer o argymhellion ymarferol, sydd wedi cael eu derbyn gan mwyaf gan y Llywodraeth, ond hoffwn gyfeirio’n fyr at yr argymhellion yn ymwneud â budd i gymunedau o ganlyniad i brosiectau ynni adnewyddadwy. Gwn fod y Gweinidog yn treulio llawer iawn o amser yn trafod ynni gwynt ac yn ceisio argyhoeddi pobl ynglŷn ag ef. Yr wyf fi hefyd yn teimlo fy mod yn treulio llawer iawn o’m hamser yn gwneud hynny. Serch hynny, credaf yn gryf y byddai’n llawer haws perswadio cymunedau i dderbyn datblygiadau ffermydd gwynt petai ganddynt ran yn y datblygiadau hynny. Gwn fod datblygwyr ffermydd gwynt yn rhoi arian i gymunedau, ond nid yw’n ddigon. Gwn am gynllun yn yr Alban lle mae’r gymuned yn berchen ar ddau dyrbin. Rhaid iddi dalu costau cynnal a chadw’r tyrbinau, ond mae’n gwneud tua £100,000 o elw y flwyddyn ohonynt, ac mae’r arian hwnnw ar gael i’w ail-fuddsoddi mewn mentrau cymunedol. Mae enghraifft yng Nghymru hefyd o dyrbin sy’n eiddo i’r gymuned, yn Hermon yn sir Gaerfyrddin, ac yn ôl a ddeallaf mae’n cyfrannu tua £35,000 y flwyddyn i’r gymuned honno.

It is much more likely that people will accept windfarms if they can own them and have direct benefit from them, so I would be interested to hear the Minister’s views on this, and on whether there is anything that the Government can do to encourage more community ownership of wind turbines.

Mae pobl lawer yn fwy tebygol o dderbyn ffermydd gwynt os gallant fod yn berchen arnynt a chael budd uniongyrchol ohonynt. Felly, hoffwn glywed beth yw barn y Gweinidog am hyn, ac a oes rhywbeth y gall y Llywodraeth ei wneud i geisio cael mwy o dyrbinau gwynt sy’n eiddo i gymunedau.

Angela Burns: I will not speak for long, because the report was excellent and most of the comments made by the Government are fair. There are a few points that I would like to explore further. Mick Bates made a good comment that, on renewable energy, Wales is the Saudi Arabia of green electricity. I thought that that was a powerful statement, because it is a comment not only about what we can do about manufacturing and being green in Wales, but about what we might be able to do with regard to creating jobs.

Angela Burns: Nid wyf am siarad yn hir, oherwydd yr oedd yr adroddiad yn un rhagorol ac mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r sylwadau a wnaethpwyd gan y Llywodraeth yn rhai teg. Mae ychydig bwyntiau yr hoffwn edrych yn fanylach arnynt. Gwnaeth Mick Bates sylw da ynglŷn â Chymru fel Sawdi-Arabia trydan gwyrdd ym maes ynni adnewyddadwy. Teimlwn fod hwnnw’n ddatganiad grymus, oherwydd mae’n cyfeirio at yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud o ran cynhyrchu a bod yn wyrdd yng Nghymru, a hefyd at yr hyn y mae’n bosibl y gallem ei wneud o ran creu swyddi.

Following on from that, I will talk about four recommendations together, because, in my view, they are linked. Those are recommendations 2 and 3, and recommendations 5 and 6. They are all about renewable energy, and are about how we can develop renewable energy in Wales, how we can connect it to the grid so that we can sell the electricity or do whatever else we need to do with it, and how we can encourage people to come to Wales to set up business and undertake research and development. I note that you are encouraging grid and distribution companies to work co-operatively with developers, and that you are looking at large-scale renewable energy projects, but I would like you to address smaller-scale renewable projects and trials. Without these small-scale renewable projects being trialled and being able to access the grid, we will not be able to turn Wales into the Saudi Arabia of green technology. I am thinking in particular of such things as marine technologies, where we will want to trial projects that will grow and develop over time. We need hubs along the coastline of Wales so that people will find it easier to hook in.

Yn dilyn hynny, yr wyf am siarad am bedwar argymhelliad gyda’i gilydd, oherwydd yn fy marn i maent yn gysylltiedig. Yr argymhellion hynny yw argymhellion 2 a 3, ac argymhellion 5 a 6. Maent i gyd yn ymwneud ag ynni adnewyddadwy, ac â’r modd y gallwn ddatblygu ynni adnewyddadwy yng Nghymru, sut y gallwn ei gysylltu â’r grid er mwyn inni allu gwerthu’r trydan, neu wneud beth bynnag arall y mae angen inni ei wneud ag ef, a sut y gallwn annog pobl i ddod i Gymru i sefydlu busnes a gwneud gwaith ymchwil a datblygu. Sylwaf eich bod yn annog y grid a chwmnïau dosbarthu i weithio ar y cyd â datblygwyr, a’ch bod yn edrych ar brosiectau ynni adnewyddadwy mawr, ond hoffwn ichi roi sylw i brosiectau ynni adnewyddadwy llai a threialon. Os na chaiff y prosiectau adnewyddadwy bach hyn eu treialu, ac os na allant gael mynediad i’r grid, ni fyddwn yn gallu troi Cymru’n Sawdi-Arabia technoleg werdd. Yr wyf yn meddwl yn benodol am bethau fel technolegau’r môr, lle bydd arnom eisiau treialu prosiectau a fydd yn tyfu ac yn datblygu gydag amser. Mae arnom angen canolfannau ar hyd arfordir Cymru i’w gwneud yn haws i bobl gysylltu.

Cyfeiriasoch at TAN 8, a dywedasoch ei fod yn ymwneud â chynllunio. Yr wyf yn deall hynny, ond nid wyf yn hollol siŵr, a chredaf nad yw llawer o bobl sydd yn y diwydiant yn hollol siŵr, beth yw rôl TAN 8 yn y broses o gael caniatâd cynllunio ar gyfer gosodiadau môr—yr wyf yn siarad yma am y rhannau hynny o osodiadau môr sydd ar y tir. Sylwaf y byddwch yn gwneud cyhoeddiad yfory ynglŷn â’ch polisi môr. Yr wyf yn falch clywed hynny, oherwydd mae yna osodiadau môr sy’n aros am ganiatâd, ac sydd wedi eu dal yn ôl yn rhannol gan gyfyngiadau cynllunio ar ble y gallant leoli’r orsaf gynhyrchu.

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In essence, they have to get the energy out of the sea. It then has to go somewhere on land to be turned into electricity and then sent up the wire. It is a struggle to get the national grid to take that energy and to get local authorities to allow the infrastructure to be built for that. You cannot cover it in your answers to the recommendations of the report, but these small gaps exist, and I want to see you fill them up, so that these wonderful ideas that people have do not fall through them.

Yn ei hanfod, rhaid iddynt gael yr ynni allan o’r môr. Wedyn rhaid iddo fynd i rywle ar y tir i gael ei droi’n drydan ac wedyn ei anfon i fyny’r wifren. Mae’n anodd cael y grid cenedlaethol i gymryd yr ynni hwnnw a chael awdurdodau lleol i ganiatáu adeiladu’r seilwaith ar gyfer hynny. Ni allwch ddelio â hyn yn eich atebion i argymhellion yr adroddiad, ond mae’r bylchau bach hyn yn bodoli, ac mae arnaf eisiau eich gweld yn eu llenwi, fel na fydd y syniadau gwych hyn sydd gan bobl ddim yn syrthio drwyddynt.

Moving on to recommendation 5, you talk of substantial support through WEFO and the competitive and convergence fund programmes to support the development of green jobs in Wales. I note that that, in 'Capturing the Potential—A Green Jobs Strategy for Wales’, you and the Deputy First Minister estimate that Wales could have about £50 billion-worth of investment in low-carbon electricity production over the next 10 to 15 years. What plans do you have to give financial support for other low-carbon and environmental goods and services, because £50 billion is a significant sum of turnover for Wales and it would be good to support them? I know that you have created the wood energy business scheme to support biomass and that there are several individual projects and individual pots of money buried in the single investment fund and other convergence funding, but will you consider whether it is worth bringing them all together, as you have done with biomass, to produce a specific pot of money for low-carbon and environmental goods and services, given the benefit that they could bring to Wales?

I symud ymlaen at argymhelliad 5, soniwch am gefnogaeth sylweddol drwy WEFO a’r rhaglenni cronfeydd cystadleurwydd a chydgyfeirio i gefnogi datblygu swyddi gwyrdd yng Nghymru. Sylwaf yn 'Gwireddu’r Potensial—Strategaeth Swyddi Gwyrdd i Gymru’ eich bod chi a’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog yn amcangyfrif y gallai Cymru gael gwerth rhyw £50 biliwn o fuddsoddiad mewn cynhyrchu trydan carbon isel dros y 10 i 15 mlynedd nesaf. Pa gynlluniau sydd gennych i roi cefnogaeth ariannol i nwyddau a gwasanaethau carbon isel ac amgylcheddol eraill, oherwydd mae £50 biliwn yn swm sylweddol o drosiant i Gymru a byddai’n dda eu cefnogi? Gwn eich bod wedi creu’r cynllun busnes ynni coed i gefnogi biomas, a bod nifer o brosiectau unigol a phot unigol o arian wedi’u claddu yn y gronfa fuddsoddi sengl a chyllid cydgyfeirio arall, ond a wnewch chi ystyried a yw’n werth dod â hwy i gyd ynghyd, fel y gwnaethoch gyda biomas, i gynhyrchu pot penodol o arian ar gyfer nwyddau a gwasanaethau carbon-isel ac amgylcheddol, o gofio’r budd y gallent ei roi i Gymru?

My final point is on trying to hit our targets for wind energy. Mick Bates referred to the fact that we will miss our targets for 2010 because applications worth about 700 MW are still stuck in the planning stage. On Monday, I met representatives of the British Wind Energy Association Cymru, who said that they will not get planning consent for their applications until the beginning of 2012. That is just the consent, not the building work. Therefore, in the light of the recommendations of the report, could you address how we can unstick that planning blockage to achieve those targets?

Mae fy mhwynt olaf yn ymwneud â cheisio cyrraedd ein targedau ar gyfer ynni gwynt. Cyfeiriodd Mick Bates at y ffaith na chyrhaeddwn ein targedau ar gyfer 2010 oherwydd bod ceisiadau gwerth rhyw 700 MW yn dal yn y cam cynllunio. Ddydd Llun cyfarfûm â chynrychiolwyr Cymdeithas Ynni Gwynt Prydain (Cymru), a ddywedodd na chânt gydsyniad cynllunio i’w ceisiadau tan ddechrau 2012. Dim ond y cydsyniad yw hynny, nid y gwaith adeiladu. Felly, yng ngoleuni argymhellion yr adroddiad, a allech drafod sut y gallwn ryddhau’r dagfa gynllunio honno er mwyn cyrraedd y targedau hynny?

Mohammad Asghar: First, I ask my friends and colleagues whether they saw Prince Charles’s lecture last week on Jonathan Dimbleby’s programme, which he delivered from Clarence House. It was one of the best speeches I have ever heard regarding saving our blue planet and it was an eye-opener. I recommend that it be printed out and sent all over the world through our consulates to let the world know that Britain is taking the lead on saving our blue planet.

Mohammad Asghar: Yn gyntaf, gofynnaf i’m ffrindiau a’m cyd-Aelodau a welsant ddarlith y Tywysog Charles yr wythnos diwethaf ar raglen Jonathan Dimbleby, a draddodwyd o Clarence House. Dyna un o’r areithiau gorau imi eu clywed erioed ynglŷn ag achub ein planed las, ac yr oedd yn agoriad llygad. Argymhellaf y dylid ei hargraffu a’i hanfon dros y byd drwy ein his-genhadaethau i adael i’r byd wybod bod Prydain yn arwain y ffordd o ran achub ein planed las.

I congratulate the Sustainability Committee on its very detailed report on carbon emissions. The Government can talk of reducing carbon emissions by so many per cent annually, but that may often mean little to the individual person. However, it important that we all recognise the challenge and that each of us, in a small way, takes action to do what we can to help the situation. Some non-technical and non-scientific people can be switched off by some of the jargon that is used, so I welcome the recommendation to the Welsh Assembly Government to simplify the number and nature of targets set for carbon reduction. If the language could be simplified, that would be a great help. I very much like the clarity of some of the advice given to householders on how to save energy, for example, on the clear savings to be made by using low-energy light bulbs.

Llongyfarchaf y Pwyllgor Cynaliadwyedd am ei adroddiad manwl iawn ar allyriadau carbon. Gall y Llywodraeth siarad am gwtogi hyn a hyn y cant ar allyriadau carbon bob blwyddyn, ond yn aml ni fydd hynny’n golygu fawr ddim i’r unigolyn. Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig inni bob un gydnabod yr her a’n bod i gyd, mewn ffordd fach, yn cymryd camau i wneud yr hyn a allwn i helpu’r sefyllfa. Gall rhai pobl nad ydynt yn bobl dechnegol na gwyddonol gau eu clustiau oherwydd y jargon a ddefnyddir, felly, croesawaf yr argymhelliad i Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ymleiddio nifer a natur y targedau a osodir ar gyfer lleihau carbon. Pe gellid symleiddio’r iaith, byddai hynny o gymorth mawr. Hoffaf yn fawr iawn eglurder rhywfaint o’r cyngor a roddir i berchnogion tai ar sut i arbed ynni, er enghraifft, o ran yr arbedion clir sydd i’w gwneud o ddefnyddio bylbiau golau ynni isel.

We also have the concept of microgeneration, which, to the uninitiated, means generating zero or low-carbon heat and power by individuals, small businesses and communities to meet their needs. Two of the committee’s recommendations concern microgeneration. The committee recommends that the Welsh Assembly Government explore the potential for Welsh councils to give loans for installing domestic microgeneration technology. I am glad that that has been accepted in principle by the Minister.

Mae gennym hefyd y cysyniad o ficrogynhyrchu, sef, i’r anghyfarwydd, cynhyrchu gwres a phŵer di-garbon neu garbon-isel gan unigolion, busnesau bach a chymunedau i ddiwallu eu hanghenion. Mae dau o argymhellion y pwyllgor yn ymwneud â microgynhyrchu. Mae’r pwyllgor yn argymell y dylai Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ymchwilio i’r potensial i gynghorau Cymru roi benthyciadau ar gyfer gosod technoleg microgynhyrchu mewn cartrefi. Yr wyf yn falch fod y Gweinidog wedi derbyn hynny mewn egwyddor.

Recommendation 13 is for

'The Welsh Assembly Government takes a lead in promoting the Low Carbon Buildings Programme in Wales and lobbies the UK Government to renew the Low Carbon Buildings Programme after 2010 in addition to the proposed system of feed in tariffs for renewable energy generation.’

Bod Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn rhoi arweiniad o ran hyrwyddo’r Cynllun Adeiladau Carbon Isel yng Nghymru ac yn lobïo Llywodraeth y DU i adnewyddu’r Rhaglen Adeiladau Carbon Isel ar ôl 2010 yn ogystal â’r system arfaethedig o daliadau ychwanegol ar gyfer cynhyrchu ynni adnewyddadwy.

That has also been accepted in principle by the Minister. Well done.

Mae hynny wedi’i dderbyn mewn egwyddor gan y Gweinidog. Da iawn chi.

To give an example of what councils in Wales could be doing, Kirklees Council in Yorkshire has a warm-zone project where home insulation is free to everyone, not just to pensioners and those on benefits. It also has a pilot scheme to give interest-free loans of up to £10,000 to householders to install renewable and low-carbon technologies in their properties. That should be looked into and encouraged in Wales.

I roi enghraifft o’r hyn y gallai cynghorau yng Nghymru fod yn ei wneud, mae gan Gyngor Kirklees yn Swydd Efrog brosiect cylch cynnes lle mae insiwleiddio cartref ar gael am ddim i bawb, nid yn unig i bensiynwyr a phobl sy’n cael budd-daliadau. Mae ganddo gynllun peilot hefyd i roi benthyciadau di-log hyd at £10,000 i ddeiliaid tai i osod technolegau adnewyddadwy a charbon isel yn eu heiddo. Dylid ymchwilio i hynny a’i annog yng Nghymru.

As well as individual schemes, community schemes for microgeneration and renewable energy in general could also be important in bringing many benefits to the local area. As the First Minister said last week, we talk of white-collar and blue-collar workers, but it would be good in the future, in reference to the green jobs strategy, to talk of green-collar or green workers. I look forward to the green jobs strategy, which is now being finalised following the public consultation. It is an important opportunity to develop our economy.

Yn ogystal â chynlluniau unigol, gallai cynlluniau cymunedol ar gyfer microgynhyrchu ac ynni adnewyddadwy yn gyffredinol fod yn bwysig hefyd o ran dod â nifer o fuddiannau i’r ardal leol. Fel y dywedodd y Prif Weinidog yr wythnos diwethaf, yr ydym yn siarad am weithwyr coler wen a choler las, ond byddai’n dda yn y dyfodol, wrth gyfeirio at y strategaeth swyddi gwyrdd, siarad am weithwyr coler werdd neu weithwyr gwyrdd. Edrychaf ymlaen at y strategaeth swyddi gwyrdd, sy’n cael ei ffurfio’n derfynol yn awr wedi’r ymgynghori cyhoeddus. Mae’n gyfle pwysig i ddatblygu ein heconomi.

To sum up, I welcome the report and note the potential of Wales to lead the way on renewable energy, given our wealth of natural resources. The One Wales Government is to be congratulated on the moves that it is taking on a number of fronts to encourage the green economy and greenness in general, and I congratulate the Minister on being at the forefront of those developments.

I grynhoi, croesawaf yr adroddiad, a nodaf botensial Cymru i arwain y ffordd ar ynni adnewyddadwy, oherwydd ein cyfoeth o adnoddau naturiol. Dylid llongyfarch Llywodraeth Cymru’n Un am y symudiadau y mae’n eu gwneud o lawer cyfeiriad i annog yr economi werdd a gwyrddni’n gyffredinol, a llongyfarchaf y Gweinidog ar fod ar flaen y gad gyda’r datblygiadau hynny.

Lorraine Barrett: I have a few comments to make from this side of the Chamber. This inquiry seemed to go on forever, but it was very interesting, and covered many aspects of carbon reduction. Some of it was fascinating.

Lorraine Barrett: Mae gennyf ychydig sylwadau i’w gwneud o’r ochr hon i’r Siambr. Yr oedd yr ymchwiliad hwn fel pebae am fynd ymlaen am byth, ond yr oedd yn ddiddorol iawn, ac yn ymdrin â nifer o agweddau ar leihau carbon. Yr oedd rhannau ohono’n eithriadol o ddiddorol.

I want to comment on headline recommendation 6, which Oscar has already referred to. It recommends exploring the potential for local authorities in Wales to issue loans for the installation of domestic microgeneration technology. I very much welcome that recommendation, and it should be seen almost as a priority. I am pleased that the Minister has accepted it in principle, although I can see why she says that this has to be done in a joined-up fashion along with other funding sources from the UK Government and elsewhere. I am pleased that the Government is already funding the Carbon Trust in Wales as a key part of the programme.

Hoffwn wneud sylw ar brif argymhelliad 6 y mae Oscar eisoes wedi cyfeirio ato. Mae’n argymell ymchwilio i’r potensial i awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru roi benthyciadau ar gyfer gosod technoleg microgynhyrchu mewn cartrefi. Croesawaf yr argymhelliad hwnnw’n fawr, a dylid ei weld bron fel blaenoriaeth. Yr wyf yn falch fod y Gweinidog wedi’i dderbyn mewn egwyddor, er y gallaf weld pam y mae’n dweud ei bod yn rhaid gwneud hyn mewn ffordd gydlynol ynghyd â ffynonellau ariannu eraill gan Lywodraeth y DU a mannau eraill. Yr wyf yn falch fod y Llywodraeth eisoes yn ariannu’r Ymddiriedolaeth Garbon yng Nghymru fel rhan allweddol o’r rhaglen.

There seems to be resistance from many quarters to windfarms. However, I meet so many people who tell me that they are very keen to do their bit at home through microgeneration but that the cost is prohibitive, in many cases. If they could be helped financially, that would have the knock-on effect of bringing down the cost of microgeneration technology and of supporting the related businesses, some of which are based in Cardiff as well as elsewhere in Wales. Therefore, the manufacturing and installation of these items would help the economy. I know that there is a lot of goodwill out there for these products and so that would be a good way for people to engage with their own personal responsibility to reduce the carbon emissions from the energy that we use.

Mae’n ymddangos bod gwrthwynebiad o lawer cyfeiriad i ffermydd gwynt. Fodd bynnag, byddaaf yn cwrdd â chynifer o bobl sy’n dweud wrthyf eu bod yn awyddus iawn i chwarae eu rhan yn y cartref drwy ficrogynhyrchu ond bod y gost yn eu rhwystro, mewn llawer achos. Pe gellid eu helpu’n ariannol, câi hynny’r sgil-effaith o ostwng cost technoleg microgynhyrchu ac o gefnogi’r busnesau sy’n gysylltiedig â hyn, rai ohonynt â’u gweithleoedd yng Nghaerdydd yn ogystal â rhannau eraill o Gymru. Felly, byddai cynhyrchu a gosod yr eitemau hyn yn helpu’r economi. Gwn fod llawer o ewyllys da yn y wlad i’r cynhyrchion hyn, ac felly byddai hynny’n ffordd dda i bobl ymgysylltu â’u cyfrifoldeb personol eu hunain dros leihau’r allyriadau carbon o’r ynni a ddefnyddiwn.

I very much welcome the report and I thank Mick as Chair. He does a sterling job in controlling us all in the committee. I also thank the Minister for her positive response.

Croesawaf yr adroddiad yn fawr iawn, a diolchaf i Mick fel Cadeirydd. Mae’n gwneud gwaith rhagorol yn ein rheoli ni i gyd yn y pwyllgor. Diolch i’r Gweinidog hefyd am ei hymateb cadarnhaol.

The Minister for Environment, Sustainability and Housing (Jane Davidson): I will make sure that the comments made today are fed into the consultation on the climate change strategy. On microgeneration, I will be making the regulations by negative resolution during the summer so that they will be in place, as requested by committee members.

Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd, Cynaliadwyedd a Thai (Jane Davidson): Gwnaf yn siŵr y caiff y sylwadau a wneir heddiw eu bwydo i mewn i’r ymgynghori ar y strategaeth ar newid yn yr hinsawdd. Ynglŷn â microgynhyrchu, byddaf yn gwneud y rheoliadau drwy weithdrefn benderfynu negyddol yn ystod yr haf fel y byddant yn eu lle, yn unol â chais aelodau’r pwyllgor.

5.10 p.m.

Mick Bates: I thank everybody who took part in the debate, particularly Mohammad Asghar and Lorraine Barrett for their inspirational contributions towards the end of the debate. I am always pleased to receive some kind of royal blessing, as it were, for my committee’s work and I feel that that was provided by connection and inference from the comments about Prince Charles. Thank you for that, Mohammad. I am certain that he was inspired by the criticisms of his jet plane and the flights that he took.

Mick Bates: Diolch i bawb a gymerodd ran yn y ddadl, yn enwedig Mohammad Asghar a Lorraine Barrett am eu cyfraniadau ysbrydoledig tua diwedd y ddadl. Yr wyf bob amser yn falch cael rhyw fath o fendith frenhinol, fel petai, i waith fy mhwyllgor, a theimlaf bod hynny wedi’i ddarparu drwy gysylltiad a’r casgliad o’r sylwadau am y Tywysog Charles. Diolch ichi am hynny, Mohammad. Yr wyf yn sicr iddo gael ei ysbrydoli gan y geiriau beirniadol am ei awyren jet a’r siwrneiau awyr a wnaeth.

On a serious note, I very much welcome the Minister’s announcement that, by negative procedure, she will bring forward permitted development regulations for microgeneration. That is a particularly important aspect of encouraging more and more people in that regard. As Lorraine said, it plays a tremendous part in changing individuals’ behaviour and in bringing greater individual responsibility to the table as we look at energy production in Wales. I take on board Lorraine’s other comments. The committee did try to address the issue that community engagement in energy production is critical if we are to take advantage of the potential in Wales.

Ar nodyn difrifol, croesawaf yn fawr gyhoeddiad y Gweinidog y bydd yn cyflwyno, drwy weithdrefn negyddol, reoliadau datblygu a ganiateir ar gyfer microgynhyrchu. Mae hynny’n agwedd arbennig o bwysig ar annog mwy a mwy o bobl yn hynny o beth. Fel y dywedodd Lorraine, mae’n bwysig iawn wrth newid ymddygiad pobl ac i ddod â mwy o gyfrifoldeb unigol at y bwrdd wrth inni edrych ar gynhyrchu ynni yng Nghymru. Yr wyf yn derbyn sylwadau eraill Lorraine. Ceisiodd y Pwyllgor ymdrin â’r mater fod ymgysylltiad y gymuned â chynhyrchu ynni yn hollbwysig os ydym am fanteisio ar y potensial yng Nghymru.

Leanne mentioned the example of a Scottish community that was earning £100,000 from wind turbines that it had had installed. I have always been disappointed by the section in TAN 8 that does not quite give permitted development rights to communities, but allowed installations of up to 5 MW, which is the equivalent of the output from Leanne’s example in Scotland. Communities in Wales could do that. I hope that that will become the norm rather than the exception.

Soniodd Leanne am esiampl cymuned yn yr Alban a oedd yn ennill £100,000 o dyrbinau gwynt yr oedd wedi’u gosod. Yr wyf bob amser wedi bod yn siomedig gyda’r adran yn nodyn cyngor technegol 8 nad yw’n mynd mor bell â rhoi hawliau datblygu a ganiateir i gymunedau, ond a oedd yn caniatau gosodiadau hyd at 5 MW, sy’n gyfwerth â’r allbwn o enghraifft Leanne yn yr Alban. Gallai cymunedau yng Nghymru wneud hynny. Gobeithio y daw hynny’n sefyllfa arferol yn hytrach nag yn eithriad.

Leanne Wood rose—

Leanne Wood a gododd—

Mick Bates: Angela mentioned the critical issue of how the Government can make best use of European funding in this respect, to encourage more and more communities to do just what was done in Scotland.

Mick Bates: Soniodd Angela am y cwestiwn allweddol sut y gall y Llywodraeth ddefnyddio arian Ewrop yn y ffordd orau yn hyn, i annog mwy a mwy o gymunedau i wneud yr union beth a wnaethpwyd yn yr Alban.

I will end by thanking Members and the committee staff for their work during this inquiry. In particular, I thank the Minister for her announcement and her leadership, but there does remain that final challenge of getting—

I gloi, diolch i Aelodau a staff y pwyllgor am eu gwaith yn ystod yr ymchwiliad hwn. Yn enwedig, diolch i’r Gweinidog am ei chyhoeddiad a’i harweiniad, ond y mae’n aros o hyd yr her olaf honno o gael—

Leanne Wood: May I make an intervention?

Leanne Wood: A gaf i dorri i mewn?

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Sorry, I did not see you there.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, ni sylwais arnoch yn y fan yna.

Leanne Wood: One question that was raised, Mick, was how we could reach the target of reducing carbon emissions before 2020 when the Severn barrage project will not be completed until a long time after that. Could you explain to Members why we framed the recommendation in the way that we did?

Leanne Wood: Un cwestiwn a godwyd, Mick, oedd sut y gallem gyrraedd y targed o leihau allyriadau carbon cyn 2020 pan na fydd prosiect morglawdd Hafren wedi’i gwblhau tan ymhell wedi hynny. A allech egluro wrth Aelodau pam y fframiwyd yr argymhelliad gennym fel y gwnaethom?

Mick Bates: I did mention that in my opening remarks, but we do not consider energy production by the Severn barrage to be applicable to the 2020 target, because no-one ever said that it would be built and would be producing electricity by 2020. I think that we will be proved right in that assumption.

Mick Bates: Soniais am hynny yn fy sylwadau agoriadol, ond nid ydym yn ystyried bod ynni a gynhyrchir gan forglawdd Hafren yn berthnasol i’r targed 2020, gan na ddywedodd neb erioed y byddai wedi’i adeiladu ac y byddai’n cynhyrchu trydan erbyn 2020. Credaf y profir ein bod yn gywir yn y dybiaeth honno.

I will close by thanking you all again for your contributions. Let us hope that we really do hit some targets in the near future.

I gloi, diolch ichi i gyd eto am eich cyfraniadau. Gadewch inni obeithio y byddwn yn wir yn cyrraedd ambell darged  yn y dyfodol agos.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: The proposal is to note the Sustainability Committee’s report. Are there any objections? I see that there are no objections. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order No. 7.35.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I have selected amendment 1 in the name of Carwyn Jones, and amendments 2 and 3 in the name of Peter Black. If amendment 1 is carried, amendments 2 and 3 will be deselected.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 yn enw Carwyn Jones, a gwelliannu 2 a 3 yn enw Peter Black. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliannau 2 a 3 eu dad-ddethol.

David Melding: I move that

the National Assembly for Wales:

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

1) notes with concern that the road infrastructure of Wales may lack the necessary capital investment required to meet the strategic needs of an economy recovering from recession;

1) yn nodi â phryder efallai nad oes gan seilwaith ffyrdd Cymru y buddsoddiad cyfalaf angenrheidiol sy’n ofynnol i ddiwallu anghenion strategol economi sy’n dod dros ddirwasgiad;

2) believes that east-west trunk roads must be developed and maintained as a key priority if the Welsh economy is to improve its GVA position in relation to the rest of the UK;

2) yn credu bod yn rhaid datblygu a chynnal cefnffyrdd rhwng y dwyrain a’r gorllewin fel blaenoriaeth allweddol os yw economi Cymru am wella ei safle GYC yng nghyswllt gweddill y DU;

3) yn gresynu wrth yr oedi a gyhoeddwyd gan y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog o ran datblygu llwybrau prifwythiennol allweddol. (NDM4270)

We will be opposing amendments 1, 2 and 3. I should say to the Welsh Liberal Democrats that, while I do not think that they tabled amendment 2 as a wrecking amendment, we did specifically want to concentrate on the road-building programme. On that basis, we do not want to widen the issue at this stage. However, we will come back to general transport policy in good time.

Byddwn yn gwrthwynebu gwelliannau 1, 2 a 3. Dylwn ddweud wrth Ddemocratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru, er nad wyf yn meddwl iddynt gyflwyno gwelliant 2 fel gwelliant dinistriol, ein bod yn benodol wedi dymuno canolbwyntio ar y rhaglen adeiladu ffyrdd. Ar y sail honno, nid oes arnom eisiau ehangu’r mater ar hyn o bryd. Fodd bynnag, deuwn yn ôl at bolisi trafnidiaeth cyffredinol maes o law.

Y rheswm yr oedd arnom eisiau bod yn benodol oedd ein bod yn rhagweld y cyhoeddiadau mawr yr oedd y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog yn debygol o’u gwneud. Os caf ei rhoi fel hyn, yr oedd y dail te yn darogan bod cynlluniau mawr yn mynd i gael eu gohirio neu eu canslo. Dyna yn wir sydd wedi digwydd, a dychwelaf at y manylion yn ystod fy araith. Derbyniwn yn llwyr yr effeithir ar ddyfodol agos y rhaglen adeiladu ffyrdd gan symudiad moddol hirdymor. Bydd hynny’n effeithio ar flaenoriaethau a gallu, ac yn datblygu’r rhaglen ffyrdd mewn ffordd sy’n bendant yn wahanol i unrhyw gyfryw flaenraglen waith a fyddai wedi’i datblygu 20 mlynedd yn ôl. Bydd gostyngiadau mewn gwariant cyfalaf hefyd yn effeithio ar hyn. Nid darlunio delfryd wag yr wyf yma. Bydd hynny’n digwydd dros y 10 mlynedd nesaf, gan y bydd gwariant cyhoeddus yn dynn, a ninnau yn gorfod bod yn fwy disgybledig o ran y blaenoriaethau y gallwn eu dynodi a’r cynlluniau y gallwn fwrw ymlaen â hwy. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn bryderus iawn y caiff y gyllideb drafnidiaeth ei tharo’n galetach na’r arfer o ran cyllidebau Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ac y byddwn, yn benodol, yn gwneud dewisiadau gwael pan ddaw’n fater o adeiladu ffyrdd.

To refer back to the earlier statement, one of the most disappointing things is that we did not really get an expansive vision from the Deputy First Minister. There was no sense that the decisions that he has made, which we disagree with, were taken so that he could generate the wherewithal to achieve a modal shift and then tell us exactly how that was going to be achieved. In fact, the general schemes that he is backing—many of which we agree with when it comes to other transport modes—are accepted. However, we are not seeing a reprioritisation that is driven by that desire. What we are seeing is a Deputy First Minister who is having to make hard choices because he has either lost or does not anticipate winning the sort of battles that he is going to be faced with in order to maintain an adequate level of capital spend.

I gyfeirio’n ôl at y datganiad cynharach, un o’r pethau mwyaf siomedig yw na chawsom mewn gwirionedd weledigaeth eang gan y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog. Nid oedd dim ymdeimlad bod y penderfyniadau a wnaeth, yr ydym yn anghytuno â hwy, wedi’u gwneud fel y gallai gynhyrchu’r adnoddau i gyrraedd y newid moddol ac yna ddweud wrthym yn union sut y byddid yn gwneud hynny. Mewn gwirionedd, derbynnir y cynlluniau cyffredinol y mae’n eu cefnogi—ac yr ydym yn cytuno â llawer ohonynt pan ddaw’n fater o fathau eraill o drafnidiaeth. Fodd bynnag, nid ydym yn gweld ail-flaenoriaethu sy’n cael ei yrru gan y dyhead hwnnw. Yr hyn a welwn yw Dirprwy Brif Weinidog sy’n gorfod gwneud dewisiadau anodd am ei fod naill ai wedi colli neu am nad yw’n rhagweld y bydd yn ennill y math o frwydrau y bydd yn eu hwynebu er mwyn cynnal lefel ddigonol o wariant cyfalaf.

I think that all Members will accept that there is going to be an ongoing strategic necessity to build new roads, to improve others, and to maintain all to the highest level that we can. That is going to happen, no matter what happens in the next 10 or 20 years. However we shift behaviour and manage demand in terms of road use, that is going to be an absolute central, strategic requirement. It is, therefore, necessary to provide the people of Wales, and in particular the business community, with clear direction and leadership. I think that that has been the biggest failure this afternoon, in particular with regard to the need to alleviate congestion on the M4, particularly around Newport. As well as the tighter spending round that we will be in, this has been caused by the fact that funding methods that could enable the Deputy First Minister to take forward more strategic schemes, have not been identified and worked up effectively, which is hardly surprising, given the rhetoric of this Government with regard to the way in which it wants to work with the private sector. Is it surprised, given what it has said so trenchantly about the NHS, for example, that it does not now feel that it is going to get the sort of engagement with the private sector that might make some sort of joint funding possible?

I wish to look at some of the strategic issues. I said that we accept that some modal shift is both desirable and likely to occur. To that extent, with regard to the national transport plan, we share the desire for better public transport, particularly better interconnectivity. That is something that I referred to directly in relation to connected ticketing and our equivalent of some sort of Oyster card.

Carwn edrych ar rai o’r materion strategol. Dywedais ein bod yn derbyn bod rhywfaint o newid modd yn ddymunol ac yn debygol o ddigwydd. I’r graddau hynny, o ran y cynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol, yr ydym yn rhannu’r dyhead am well cludiant cyhoeddus, yn enwedig gwell rhyng-gysylltedd. Dyna rywbeth y cyfeiriais ato’n uniongyrchol yng nghyswllt tocynnau cysylltiedig a’r hyn a fyddai’n cyfateb yma i ryw fath o gerdyn Oyster.

On rail electrification, I know that Mike German has taken us back a generation and reminded us that it was an aspiration then. However, I think that we should accept what the Deputy First Minister has said, in that it is now really on the cards, and that, by 2020, there will be a major development of the Great Western line, to mirror the developments that have taken place in other parts of England, and up to Scotland. It is absolutely crucial that whoever is in Government is given full support by all parties in the Assembly to ensure that rail electrification extends as far as Swansea.

Ar fater trydaneiddio’r rheilffyrdd, gwn fod Mike German wedi mynd â ni yn ôl genhedlaeth, a’n hatgoffa ei fod yn ddyhead bryd hynny. Fodd bynnag, tybiaf y dylem dderbyn yr hyn a ddywedodd y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog, sef ei fod bellach yn wir yn yr arfaeth, ac erbyn 2020, y bydd lein y Great Western wedi’i datblygu’n helaeth, i gyfateb i’r datblygiadau a fu mewn rhannau eraill o Loegr, ac i fyny at yr Alban. Mae’n hollol hanfodol i bwy bynnag a fydd mewn Llywodraeth gael cefnogaeth lawn yr holl bleidiau yn y Cynulliad i sicrhau y bydd trydaneiddio’r rheilffyrdd yn ymestyn cyn belled ag Abertawe.

Promoting cycling and walking remains an imperative that can be justified in terms of health gains, but also in terms of the better management of urban transport flows. It is probably something of a neglected area, going back many decades. For example, in road design, we have not seen the effective integration of cycling and pedestrian walkways. Until fairly recently, even the Cogan Spur bridge was an example of no pedestrian access. Today, we see the consequences of it with many people walking in a dangerous fashion across that bridge.

Mae hybu beicio a cherdded yn dal yn hanfod y gellir ei gyfiawnhau o ran buddion iechyd, ond hefyd o ran gwell rheolaeth ar lif trafnidiaeth mewn trefi. Mae’n faes a anwybyddwyd i raddau, mi dybiaf, a hynny ers degawdau. Er enghraifft, o ran dylunio ffyrdd, nid ydym wedi gweld llwybrau beicio a llwybrau cerdded yn cael eu hintegreiddio’n effeithiol. Tan yn weddol ddiweddar yr oedd hyd yn oed Bont Cogan Spur yn esiampl o fan lle na allai cerddwyr fynd. Heddiw, gwelwn ganlyniadau hynny gyda llawer o bobl yn cerdded yn beryglus ar draws y bont honno.

5.20 p.m.

Strategic roads are still key and we have identified several of them. We had them in our manifesto. Take the airport access road, for example; I recall it because I suppose that the airport is a little more iconic—we can identify it as a transport requirement and the need to connect it to the wider transport infrastructure. However, it was as the Barry relief road that I first became interested and followed this particular issue. This afternoon, John Smith, the Labour MP for the Vale of Glamorgan has described the decision to pull the plug on the airport access road as 'lunacy’ and 'reckless’.

Mae ffyrdd strategol yn dal yn allweddol, ac yr ydym wedi nodi llawer ohonynt. Yr oeddent yn ein maniffesto. Cymerwch ffordd fynediad y maes awyr, er enghraifft; fe’i cofiaf am fod y maes awyr, mae’n debyg, fymryn yn fwy eiconig—gallwn ei nodi fel gofyniad trafnidiaeth a’r angen i’w chysylltu â’r seilwaith trafnidiaeth ehangach. Fodd bynnag, fel ffordd liniaru’r Barri yr ymddiddorais a dilyn y pwnc penodol hwn i ddechrau. Y prynhawn yma disgrifiodd John Smith, AS Llafur Bro Morgannwg, y penderfyniad i beidio â bwrw ymlaen â ffordd fynediad y maes awyr fel 'gwallgofrwydd’ a 'byrbwyll’.

The decision on the M4 relief road will, I think, cause bafflement among the business community. It has already been attacked by the Confederation of British Industry, which is quite right. The very least that the Deputy First Minister had to present was an alternative plan to manage those traffic flows. He has not done it. He has offered a plan that will ameliorate the situation somewhat, as I said earlier, but it is not a solution, as the M4 relief road would be, if that is what we do. That comes with costs and I am not naive about that. However, the strategic requirements that we face have not been addressed.

Bydd y penderfyniad ar ffordd liniaru’r M4, fe gredaf, yn peri dryswch ymysg y gymuned fusnes. Fe’i beirniadwyd eisoes gan Gydffederasiwn Diwydiant Prydain, ac iawn hynny. Y peth lleiaf yr oedd yn rhaid i’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog ei gyflwyno oedd cynllun amgen i reoli’r llifau traffig hynny. Nid yw wedi gwneud hynny. Cynigiodd gynllun a fydd yn lliniaru rhywfaint ar y sefyllfa, fel y dywedais yn gynharach, ond nid yw’n ateb, fel y byddai ffordd liniaru’r M4 yn ateb, os dyna a wnawn. Mae costau ynghlwm wrth hynny ac nid wyf yn naïf ynghylch hynny. Fodd bynnag, nid ymdriniwyd â’r gofynion strategol yr ydym yn eu hwynebu.

In respect of the Heads of the Valleys road, the Deputy First Minister is right to say that he has inherited a programme, but I think that it is also fair to say that he has not exactly done much to speed it up. Looking at the road transport plan, it may be that it is just weak drafting, but I refer Members to what it says about the dualling of the Heads of the Valleys road. From my reading, it will not be complete by 2020, which is what the Deputy First Minister assured us would be the case. I hope that he will address this in his speech later. From my reading, the last schemes will be started by 2020. I hope that he will clarify and put on the record that, in fact, what he means is that the road will be finished and dualled by 2020. That would help.

Parthed ffordd Blaenau’r Cymoedd, y mae’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog yn iawn i ddweud iddo etifeddu rhaglen, ond yr wyf hefyd yn meddwl ei bod yn deg dweud nad yw wedi gwneud rhyw lawer i’w chyflymu. O edrych ar y cynllun trafnidiaeth ffyrdd, efallai mai drafftio gwan ydyw, ond cyfeiriaf yr Aelodau ar yr hyn a ddywed am ddeuoli ffordd Blaenau’r Cymoedd. Fel y darllenaf fi ef, ni fydd wedi’i gyflawni erbyn 2020, sef yr hyn y sicrhaodd y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a fyddai’n digwydd. Gobeithio y bydd yn ymdrin â hyn yn ei araith yn nes ymlaen. Fel y darllenaf fi ef, cychwynnir y cynlluniau olaf erbyn 2020. Gobeithio y bydd yn egluro hyn ac yn cofnodi mai’r hyn a olyga, mewn gwirionedd, yw y bydd y ffordd wedi ei gorffen ac wedi ei deuoli erbyn 2020. Byddai hynny o gymorth.

Obviously, we welcome the work that is planned for the A55 in north Wales in terms of Ynys Môn, and ensuring that that key strategic route is as effective as possible and that pinch points are addressed. I would also add the A40 to Fishguard, although I will not rehearse all of those arguments.

Yn amlwg, yr ydym yn croesawu’r gwaith sydd ar y gweill ar gyfer yr A55 yn y gogledd o ran Ynys Môn, a gofalu y bydd y llwybr strategol hwnnw mor effeithiol ag sydd modd ac yr ymdrinnir â mannau cyfyng. Carwn ychwanegu hefyd yr A40 i Abergwaun, er nad af dros yr holl ddadleuon hynny eto.

Gareth Jones: I am grateful to you for referring to the A55. I am a bit surprised that we have no representation from north Wales among the Welsh Conservatives this afternoon. I do not know whether there is any significance in that. [Interruption.] I am not making a point; I am just concerned.

Gareth Jones: Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar ichi am gyfeirio at yr A55. Yr wyf yn synnu, braidd, nad oes gennym gynrychiolaeth o’r gogledd ymhlith y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig y prynhawn yma. Ni wn a oes unrhyw arwyddocâd yn hynny [Torri ar draws.] Nid gwneud pwynt yr ydwyf; dim ond pryderu.

You refer to the A55, and I welcome that, but if the CBI—and I believe that you wish to follow its advice—wants you to spend £1 billion on the M4, where will that money come from?

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. This is an intervention, not a speech.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Ymyriad yw hwn, nid araith.

Gareth Jones: There will be no money left then for the A55 or for any other development outside this part of Wales.

Gareth Jones: Ni fydd arian ar ôl felly ar gyfer yr A55 nac ar gyfer unrhyw ddatblygiad y tu allan i’r rhan hon o Gymru.

David Melding: Obviously, there would be some sort of partnership approach. Road charging would have had to be considered. There is a range of models. I am not naive enough to say that the money is there and that it can be easily identified from public sources, necessarily. I accept that. Our group has made two group visits to north Wales recently—to the north-east and the north-west—and discussed many of these issues. I happily visited your own constituency. You are quite right; these points were made very powerfully to us. [Interruption.]

David Melding: Wrth gwrs, byddai rhyw fath o ddull partneriaeth. Byddai’n rhaid ystyried codi tâl ar ddefnyddwyr ffyrdd. Mae yna amrywiaeth o fodelau. Nid wyf yn ddigon diniwed i ddweud bod yr arian yno ac mai hawdd fyddai ei nodi o ffynonellau cyhoeddus, o raid. Yr wyf yn derbyn hynny. Mae ein grŵp wedi gwneud dau ymweliad grŵp â’r gogledd yn ddiweddar—y gogledd-ddwyrain a’r gogledd-orllewin—ac wedi trafod nifer o’r materion hyn. Yr oeddwn yn hapus iawn i ymweld â’ch etholaeth chi. Yr ydych yn berffaith iawn; cyflëwyd y pwyntiau hyn yn rymus iawn inni. [Torri ar draws.]

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn.

David Melding: To conclude, we have seen a lack of leadership from the Welsh Assembly Government today, particularly in terms of the Heads of the Valleys road and the M4 relief road. However, in general, there seems to be a lack of urgency in tackling some of our major strategic transport requirements at the moment. This is what underlines the Deputy First Minister’s current predicament; he is not confident that he will have the funding to do the essential work. That is the root of his reticence.

David Melding: I gloi, yr ydym wedi gweld diffyg arweiniad gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru heddiw, yn enwedig o ran ffordd Blaenau’r Cymoedd a ffordd liniaru’r M4. Fodd bynnag, yn gyffredinol, ymddengys fod diffyg brys i fynd i’r afael â rhai o’n prif ofynion trafnidiaeth strategol ar hyn o bryd. Dyna’r hyn sy’n tanlinellu picil presennol y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog; nid yw’n hyderus y bydd ganddo’r cyllid i wneud y gwaith hanfodol. Dyna yw gwraidd ei dawedogrwydd.

I will conclude by outlining the Welsh Conservatives’ vision. We say without any shame that we will invest in road infrastructure where necessary. That is why we would look at something like the M4 relief road, and build it if we thought that it was necessary and the best solution to manage the bottleneck around Newport. We want better road management. I welcome the imaginative schemes—or what I hope will be imaginative schemes—that will come forward around car sharing and the greater use of park and ride. All of these things definitely need to be done. We need honesty on things like road charging if that is the way that we will carry forward some of these schemes.

Terfynaf drwy amlinellu gweledigaeth y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig. Dywedwn heb ddim cywilydd y byddwn yn buddsoddi mewn seilwaith ffyrdd lle mae angen. Dyna pam y byddem yn edrych ar rywbeth fel ffordd liniaru’r M4, ac yn ei hadeiladu petaem yn tybio bod angen hynny ac mai dyna fyddai’r ateb gorau i reoli’r dagfa o gwmpas Casnewydd. Mae arnom eisiau gwell rheolaeth ffyrdd. Croesawaf y cynlluniau llawn dychymyg—neu’r hyn yr wyf yn gobeithio a fydd yn gynlluniau llawn dychymyg—a ddaw gerbron ar gyfer rhannu ceir a defnyddio mwy ar barcio a theithio. Yn bendant, y mae angen gwneud yr holl bethau hyn. Mae arnom angen gonestrwydd ar bethau fel codi tâl ar ddefnyddwyr ffyrdd os dyna’r ffordd y byddwn yn dwyn rhai o’r cynlluniau hyn ymlaen.

When we were in office—I know that it was a little while ago—the Conservative Party gave Wales the second Severn crossing. [Interruption.] The Plaid-Labour Welsh Assembly Government has failed to provide the relief that we need around Newport and to keep the M4 open to secure the economic advances that we are confident the people of Wales can make.

Pan oeddem ni mewn grym—gwn fod hynny ychydig yn ôl—rhoes y Blaid Geidwadol ail bont dros afon Hafren i Gymru. [Torri ar draws.] Mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru Plaid-Llafur wedi methu darparu’r ffordd liniaru y mae ei hangen arnom o gwmpas Casnewydd a chadw’r M4 yn agored i sicrhau’r camau economaidd ymlaen yr ydym yn hyderus y gall pobl Cymru eu cymryd.   

Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog: Cynigiaf welliant 1 yn enw Carwyn Jones: dileu’r cyfan ac yn ei le rhoi:

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

1. welcomes the publication of the national transport plan on Wednesday, 15 July;

1. yn croesawu cyhoeddi’r cynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol ddydd Mercher, 15 Gorffennaf;

2. believes the plan achieves the right balance of integrated transport schemes for the economy of Wales;

2. yn credu bod y cynllun yn sicrhau’r cydbwysedd cywir o gynlluniau trafnidiaeth integredig ar gyfer economi Cymru;

3. confirms that this Welsh Assembly Government has not delayed the development of key arterial routes.

3. yn cadarnhau nad yw’r Llywodraeth Cynulliad hon wedi gohirio’r gwaith o ddatblygu llwybrau prifwythiennol allweddol.

Kirsty Williams: I move the following amendments in the name of Peter Black. Amendment 2: in point 1, delete 'road’ and replace with 'transport’.

Kirsty Williams: Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Peter Black. Gwelliant 2: ym mhwynt 1, dileu 'ffyrdd’ a rhoi 'trafnidiaeth’ yn ei le.

Amendment 3: in point 2, delete 'trunk roads’ and replace with 'transport infrastructure’.

Gwelliant 3: ym mhwynt 2, dileu 'cefnffyrdd’ a rhoi 'seilwaith trafnidiaeth’ yn ei le.

I accept David Melding’s explanation at the beginning of his speech regarding why the Conservatives desired this afternoon to focus mainly on roads. However, from our perspective, that has been the problem with debates on transport for many years—the focus has always been just about roads. The Tories have fallen into this trap yet again this afternoon. That is the reason behind our amendments. If we are truly to look at issues around how the economy can be regenerated, we need a balanced transport policy, and one that does not simply focus on roads. If David Melding agrees, one wonders why the Tory debate has been framed in the way that it has been this afternoon.

Derbyniaf esboniad David Melding ar gychwyn ei araith pam y dymunodd y Ceidwadwyr y prynhawn yma ganolbwyntio yn bennaf ar ffyrdd. Fodd bynnag, o’n safbwynt ni, dyna fu’r broblem gyda dadleuon am drafnidiaeth ers blynyddoedd lawer—ar ffyrdd yn unig y bu’r canolbwynt. Mae’r Torïaid wedi llithro i’r fagl hon eto fyth y prynhawn yma. Dyna’r rheswm y tu ôl i’n gwelliannau. Os ydym yn wir am edrych ar bynciau sy’n ymwneud â’r ffordd i adfywio’r economi, mae arnom angen polisi trafnidiaeth cytbwys, ac un nad yw’n gwneud dim ond canolbwyntio ar ffyrdd. Os cytuna David Melding, pam, tybed, y lluniwyd dadl y Ceidwadwyr fel y gwnaethpwyd y prynhawn yma.

We need to do this for many reasons. First, this debate follows on from a debate that we have just had on carbon emissions to address the serious threat to our environment. As we know, transport is a significant contributor to carbon emissions in Wales. Therefore, if we are serious about that agenda, we need a more balanced transport policy that looks beyond simply more road building and which looks at issues around modal shift.

Mae angen inni wneud hyn am lawer rheswm. Yn gyntaf, mae’r ddadl hon yn dilyn trywydd dadl yr ydym newydd ei chael ar allyriadau carbon i ymdrin â’r bygythiad difrifol i’n hamgylchedd. Fel y gwyddom, mae trafnidiaeth yn cyfrannu’n sylweddol at allyriadau carbon yng Nghymru. Felly, os ydym o ddifrif am yr agenda honno, mae arnom angen polisi trafnidiaeth mwy cytbwys sy’n edrych y tu hwnt i wneud mwy na dim ond adeiladu mwy o ffyrdd, ac sy’n edrych ar bynciau’n ymwneud â newid modd.

Secondly, if we want to build some resilience into the Welsh economy and all aspects of Welsh life in the shadow of peak oil, then we need, once again, to look at our transport policy above and beyond just the issue of more road building and road infrastructure. Otherwise, we will face increasing difficulties in the Welsh economy and for individuals in all aspects of their lives—if we ignore investment in other sections of transport and look only at roads when fuel will become increasingly more expensive and people’s ability to afford their own personal transport will become increasingly more limited. Therefore, while roads will, of course, continue to be a major part of our transport infrastructure, that is our reason for tabling our amendments today.

Yn ail, os ydym am ychwanegu gwytnwch at economi Cymru a phob agwedd ar fywyd Cymru yng nghysgod y pegwn olew, yna mae angen inni, unwaith eto, edrych ar ein polisi trafnidiaeth uwchlaw a thu hwnt i fater syml adeiladu mwy o ffyrdd a seilwaith ffyrdd. Fel arall, byddwn yn wynebu anawsterau cynyddol yn economi Cymru ac i unigolion ym mhob agwedd ar eu bywydau—os anwybyddwn fuddsoddi mewn adrannau eraill o drafnidiaeth ac edrych ar ffyrdd yn unig pan fydd tanwydd yn mynd yn fwyfwy drud a gallu pobl i fforddio’u  cludiant personol eu hunain yn fwyfwy cyfyngedig. Felly, er y bydd ffyrdd, wrth gwrs, yn parhau’n rhan fawr o’n seilwaith trafnidiaeth, dyna yw ein rheswm dros gyflwyno ein gwelliannau heddiw.

Undoubtedly, there will be specific instances where road building is necessary, warranted and demanded by various sections of the public. However, in evaluating investment in roads, we have to look at the true cost of those particular projects. I am concerned that, in the past, we have not been particularly clear when costing road-building projects, about the true cost of those particular projects, and that needs to be addressed.

Yn ddiau, bydd enghreifftiau penodol lle bydd angen adeiladu ffyrdd, wedi’u gwarantu a’u mynnu gan wahanol garfannau o’r cyhoedd. Fodd bynnag, wrth werthuso buddsoddiad mewn ffyrdd, rhaid inni edrych ar wir gost y prosiectau penodol hynny. Pryderu yr wyf fi na fuom yn y gorffennol yn arbennig o glir, wrth gostio prosiectau adeiladu ffyrdd, am wir gost y prosiectau arbennig hynny, ac y mae angen mynd i’r afael â hynny.

5.30 p.m.

Understandably, given the statement earlier this afternoon and the news regarding the M4 relief road and the airport link road, many of our debates on roads focus on the large motorways or large dual carriageways that dissect our country but a great many people are concerned about our network of county roads, which are the responsibility of local authorities, and it is getting increasingly difficult for local authorities to maintain those roads and keep them in a good state of repair, and we have to address that gap in our road programme.