Cofnod y Trafodion
The Record of Proceedings

Y Llywydd: Galwaf y Cynulliad i drefn.

The Strategic Capital Investment Fund

Y Gronfa Buddsoddi Cyfalaf Strategol

C1 David Melding: Pa gynlluniau sydd ar waith i adolygu’r gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol a chofio’r dirwasgiad economaidd? OAQ(3)0848(FPS)

The Minister for Finance and Public Service Delivery (Andrew Davies): Projects receiving support from the fund are already delivering significant economic benefits. They are safeguarding jobs and providing a boost to both the construction industry and the wider economy. In line with best practice, I am currently reviewing the arrangements utilised for the first two rounds of the SCIF bids.  

Y Gweinidog Dros Gyllid a Chyflenwi Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus (Andrew Davies): Mae prosiectau sy’n cael cymorth gan y gronfa eisoes yn esgor ar fanteision economaidd sylweddol. Maent yn diogelu swyddi ac yn rhoi hwb i’r diwydiant adeiladu a’r economi ehangach. Yn unol â’r arfer gorau, yr wyf wrthi’n adolygu’r trefniadau a ddefnyddiwyd ar gyfer dwy rownd gyntaf y ceisiadau i’r gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol.

David Melding: Capital spending, if it is wise, will benefit the economy, but that is true in times of economic growth, as well as recession. Of the list that was published in late October, I find it difficult to see what difference there was in that compared to any other round that may have occurred in the past, had you distributed capital spending in that way. The Assembly will be particularly interested to know whether you have had specific meetings with the First Minister, and in particular, the Deputy First Minister, who have been co-ordinating the Government’s response to the economic recession to shape one of your major initiatives in this Assembly term.

David Melding: O’i wneud yn ddoeth, bydd gwariant cyfalaf o les i’r economi, ond mae hynny’n wir yn ystod cyfnod o dwf economaidd yn ogystal â chyfnod o ddirwasgiad. O’r rhestr a gyhoeddwyd ddiwedd mis Hydref, yr wyf yn ei chael yn anodd gweld pa wahaniaeth a oedd rhwng hynny ac unrhyw rownd arall a allai fod wedi digwydd yn y gorffennol, pe baech wedi dosrannu gwariant cyfalaf fel hynny. Bydd o ddiddordeb arbennig i’r Cynulliad wybod a ydych wedi cael cyfarfodydd penodol gyda’r Prif Weinidog, a’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog yn enwedig, sydd wedi bod yn cydlynu ymateb y Llywodraeth i’r dirwasgiad economaidd, i lunio un o’ch prif fentrau yn ystod y tymor hwn yn y Cynulliad.

Andrew Davies: The SCIF process is very different from the traditional approach to capital investment, which is, essentially, individual Ministers and departments investing in schools, health facilities or transport. The approach that we have taken this time—both with the first tranche of £350 million, which I announced earlier this year, and then the second of £118 million—is very different in that we were looking at collaborative bids wherever possible, whether they were different departments within the Assembly Government, local authorities or across the public sector. So, it is a much more strategic and holistic approach to our capital investment. In areas like affordable housing for example, we are working not just on an all-Wales basis, but looking also at the regional or spatial plan dimensions of that. It is a very different approach, whether they are all-Wales programmes or local or regional bids.

Andrew Davies: Mae proses y gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol yn wahanol iawn i’r dull traddodiadol o ymdrin â buddsoddi cyfalaf. I bob pwrpas mae’r dull traddodiadol yn golygu bod Gweinidogion ac adrannau unigol yn buddsoddi mewn ysgolion, cyfleusterau iechyd neu drafnidiaeth. Mae’r dull gweithredu yr ydym wedi’i ddefnyddio y tro hwn—gyda’r gyfran gyntaf o £350 miliwn a gyhoeddais yn gynharach eleni, a chyda’r ail gyfran o £118 miliwn—yn wahanol iawn, yn gymaint â’n bod yn ystyried ceisiadau cydweithredol lle bynnag yr oedd hynny’n bosibl, boed y rheini’n geisiadau gan wahanol adrannau yn Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, awdurdodau lleol neu sefydliadau ar draws y sector cyhoeddus. Felly, mae’n ddull llawer mwy strategol a chyfannol o ymdrin â’n buddsoddiad cyfalaf. Mewn meysydd megis tai fforddiadwy, er enghraifft, yr ydym yn gweithio nid yn unig ar sail Cymru gyfan ond hefyd yn ystyried yr agweddau rhanbarthol neu’r agweddau ar y cynllun gofodol yn gysylltiedig â hynny. Mae’n ddull gwahanol iawn o weithio, p’un a ydynt yn rhaglenni i Gymru gyfan ynteu’n geisiadau lleol neu ranbarthol.

Alun Davies: Thank you for your earlier response, Minister. The strategic capital investment fund will play a critical role in years to come with regard to maximising the impact of capital funding on both the economy and public infrastructure in Wales. Will you give us an update on how you see the capital investment fund operating? I understand that you have created partnership Wales within the Welsh Assembly Government, but will you outline your vision on how that will operate and the role it will play in maximising the impact of capital investment for people and communities up and down the country?

Alun Davies: Diolch am eich ymateb yn gynharach, Weinidog. Bydd y gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol yn allweddol yn y blynyddoedd i ddod o ran sicrhau bod cyllid cyfalaf yn cael yr effaith fwyaf posibl ar yr economi a’r isadeiledd cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. A wnewch chi roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni ynghylch sut yr ydych yn gweld y gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf yn gweithio? Deallaf eich bod wedi creu partneriaeth Cymru yn Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, ond a wnewch chi egluro eich gweledigaeth am y ffordd y bydd y bartneriaeth honno’n gweithio a’i rôl o ran sicrhau bod buddsoddi cyfalaf yn cael yr effaith fwyaf posibl ar bobl a chymunedau ar hyd a lled y wlad?

Andrew Davies: Clearly, at a time of increasingly constrained public spending budgets, we need to get maximum value for what I call the Welsh pound. That means taking a strategic approach to capital investment in relation to business planning, the assessment of that planning and drawing down the expert advice of the strategic capital investment fund advisory panel, chaired by Dr Tim Stone of KPMG and the European Investment Bank. It is very much about bringing that commercial expertise into the business planning process, but it is also about ensuring that we get greater value for that in relation to project management and procurement. We are monitoring, as far as we can, the direct impact that that investment will have. However, we clearly need the expertise to be able to deal with the private sector, whether in terms of capital expenditure, affordable housing or a range of other areas. We need to ensure that we have people with the right skills and expertise to deal effectively with the private sector, which is the intention of partnership Wales when it is established.

Andrew Davies: Mae’n amlwg, ar adeg pan fo cyllidebau gwariant cyhoeddus yn fwyfwy cyfyngedig, mae angen inni gael y gwerth mwyaf posibl o’r bunt Gymreig, fel yr wyf yn ei galw. Mae hynny’n golygu cymryd agwedd strategol at fuddsoddi cyfalaf o ran cynllunio busnes, asesu’r gwaith cynllunio hwnnw, a manteisio ar gyngor arbenigol panel cynghori’r gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol gan gadeiryddiaeth Dr Tim Stone o KPMG, a Banc Buddsoddi Ewrop. Mae’n ymwneud i raddau helaeth â dod â’r arbenigedd masnachol hwnnw i mewn i’r broses cynllunio busnes, ond y mae’n ymwneud hefyd â sicrhau ein bod yn cael mwy o werth o hynny o ran gwaith rheoli prosiectau a chaffael. Yr ydym yn monitro, hyd y gallwn, yr effaith uniongyrchol y bydd y buddsoddiad hwnnw’n ei chael. Fodd bynnag, mae’n amlwg fod arnom angen yr arbenigedd i ymdrin â’r sector preifat, boed o ran gwariant cyfalaf, tai fforddiadwy ynteu ystod o feysydd eraill. Mae angen inni sicrhau bod gennym bobl sydd â’r sgiliau a’r arbenigedd iawn i ymdrin yn effeithiol â’r sector preifat, a dyna yw bwriad partneriaeth Cymru pan gaiff ei sefydlu.

Chris Franks: I welcome the work of the Government and especially that of the Deputy Minister for Housing, Jocelyn Davies, and her department, on delivering new homes, many of which are for families in my region. Will you give an update on how the Welsh Government is delivering more affordable homes, helping the construction industry and keeping people in jobs? Further, the Deputy First Minister and Minister for the Economy and Transport has made significant efforts to invest in Wales and to help us out of this terrible recession. Do you agree that the clear message is that the Government is investing money strategically in order to create jobs and to help the people of Wales to weather the economic storm?

Chris Franks: Yr wyf yn croesawu’r gwaith y mae’r Llywodraeth, ac yn enwedig y Dirprwy Weinidog dros Dai, Jocelyn Davies, a’i hadran, yn ei wneud ar ddarparu cartrefi newydd, lawer ohonynt ar gyfer teuluoedd yn fy rhanbarth i. A wnewch chi roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni am y modd y mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn darparu rhagor o dai fforddiadwy, gan helpu’r diwydiant adeiladu a chadw pobl mewn gwaith? At hynny, mae’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth wedi gwneud ymdrechion sylweddol i fuddsoddi yng Nghymru, a’n helpu i ddod allan o’r dirwasgiad ofnadwy hwn. A ydych yn cytuno mai’r neges glir yw bod y Llywodraeth yn buddsoddi arian yn strategol er mwyn creu swyddi a helpu pobl yng Nghymru i ddod drwy’r storm economaidd?

Andrew Davies: Building an improved supply of affordable homes is one of the key objectives and commitments of the 'One Wales’ agreement. We believe that we are well on track to reaching that target of 6,500 affordable housing units. Considerable investment has been made in affordable homes through the strategic capital investment fund. In fact, in only the first tranche, £42 million was spent on building over 400 affordable homes across Wales. It is a major commitment of ours and I will write to you, giving more details on how we are working in this area. We are working closely with Jocelyn Davies on the development of a Welsh housing bond and looking to see how we can make the Welsh pound go even further, as I said to Alun Davies. We are looking at whether we can borrow on the bond markets, using the social housing grant to ensure that we get maximum value for money for the Welsh taxpayer.

Andrew Davies: Mae adeiladu gwell cyflenwad o dai fforddiadwy yn un o brif amcanion ac ymrwymiadau’r cytundeb 'Cymru’n Un’. Yr ydym yn credu ein bod yn bendant ar y trywydd iawn o ran cyrraedd y targed hwnnw o 6,500 o unedau tai fforddiadwy. Mae buddsoddiad sylweddol wedi’i wneud mewn tai fforddiadwy trwy’r gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol. Yn wir, o ystyried y gyfran gyntaf yn unig, gwariwyd £42 miliwn ar adeiladu dros 400 o dai fforddiadwy ledled Cymru. Mae’n un o’n prif ymrwymiadau, a byddaf yn ysgrifennu atoch i roi rhagor o fanylion ichi am y modd yr ydym yn gweithio yn y maes hwn. Yr ydym yn gweithio’n agos gyda Jocelyn Davies ar ddatblygu Bond Tai Cymru, ac yn ystyried sut y gallwn wneud i’r bunt Gymreig fynd hyd yn oed ymhellach, fel y soniais wrth Alun Davies. Yr ydym yn edrych i weld a allwn fenthyg ar y marchnadoedd bondiau, gan ddefnyddio’r grant tai cymdeithasol i sicrhau ein bod yn cael y gwerth gorau posibl am yr arian i drethdalwyr Cymru.

Draft Budget for 2010-11

Cyllideb Ddrafft ar gyfer 2010-11

Q2 Mohammad Asghar: Will the Minister make a statement on the Welsh Assembly Government’s draft budget for 2010-11? OAQ(3)0873(FPS)

C2 Mohammad Asghar: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gyllideb ddrafft Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ar gyfer 2010-11? OAQ(3)0873(FPS)

Q4 The Leader of the Opposition (Nick Bourne): Will the Minister make a statement on the 2010-11 draft budget? OAQ(3)0842

Andrew Davies: The draft budget for 2010-11 will enable us to continue to progress the 'One Wales’ agenda, address the impact of the recession, and invest in the public services that make a real difference to the people of Wales.

Andrew Davies: Bydd y gyllideb ddrafft ar gyfer 2010-11 yn ein galluogi i barhau i wneud cynnydd gydag agenda 'Cymru’n Un’, mynd i’r afael ag effaith y dirwasgiad, a buddsoddi yn y gwasanaethau cyhoeddus sy’n gwneud gwahaniaeth go iawn i bobl Cymru.

Mohammad Asghar: A number of constituents have raised concerns relating to the financing of further education. The numbers of courses and staff that have been cut across Wales, including in my area, such as in Coleg Gwent, have had a terrible impact on further education provision in the south-east. As the Minister for finance, can you give the Assembly an assurance that the current level of funding for further education will be maintained?

Mohammad Asghar: Mae nifer o etholwyr wedi mynegi pryderon ynghylch ariannu addysg bellach. Mae nifer y cyrsiau sydd wedi eu torri a nifer y staff sydd wedi colli eu swyddi ar draws Cymru, gan gynnwys yn fy ardal i, megis yng Ngholeg Gwent, wedi cael effaith ofnadwy ar ddarparu addysg bellach yn y de-ddwyrain. Fel y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, a allwch roi sicrwydd i’r Cynulliad y bydd yr arian a gaiff ei glustnodi ar gyfer addysg bellach yn parhau ar y lefel bresennol?

Andrew Davies: The budget for both further and higher education for next year, as outlined in the draft budget, broadly maintains the current financial year’s levels of funding. We recognise, as I have said on many occasions, that the financial settlement is going to be tighter than in previous years and, after 2011, it is likely to be much tighter still. With the Minister for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills, we are working with further and higher education—although your question is about further education—to look at what we can do to make the Welsh pound go even further. Of course, in addition to requiring all public service providers to produce or deliver an efficient service, to always look to reduce costs and to be much more open to introducing efficiency savings, we are also increasing the amount of investment that is going in on the capital side, for example, the development of the Taff Ely learning campus in Nantgarw. There has been significant investment from the SCIF fund in that. We are working with the sector to continue to deliver better educational outcomes, while being mindful of the overall financial settlement.

Andrew Davies: Mae’r gyllideb ar gyfer addysg bellach ac addysg uwch y flwyddyn nesaf, fel yr amlinellwyd yn y gyllideb ddrafft, yn cynnal lefelau ariannu’r flwyddyn ariannol bresennol yn fras. Yr ydym yn cydnabod, fel yr wyf wedi’i ddweud droeon o’r blaen, y bydd y setliad ariannol yn dynnach nag a fu mewn blynyddoedd blaenorol, ac ar ôl 2011 mae’n debygol y bydd yn dynnach byth. Yr ydym ni a’r Gweinidog dros Blant, Addysg, Dysgu Gydol Oes a Sgiliau yn gweithio gyda sefydliadau addysg bellach ac addysg uwch—er bod eich cwestiwn yn ymwneud ag addysg bellach—i edrych ar yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud i sicrhau bod y bunt Gymreig yn mynd hyd yn oed ymhellach. Wrth gwrs, yn ogystal â mynnu bod pob darparwr gwasanaeth cyhoeddus yn darparu neu’n cyflwyno gwasanaeth effeithlon, yn chwilio am ffyrdd i leihau costau bob amser a bod yn fwy agored o lawer i sicrhau arbedion effeithlonrwydd, yr ydym hefyd yn cynyddu’r buddsoddiad mewn gwaith cyfalaf, er enghraifft, datblygu campws dysgu Taf Elái yn Nantgarw. Mae’r datblygiad hwnnw wedi cael buddsoddiad sylweddol o’r gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol. Yr ydym yn gweithio gyda’r sector i barhau i sicrhau gwell canlyniadau addysgol, gan gadw’r setliad ariannol cyffredinol mewn cof ar yr un pryd.

Nick Bourne: Minister, you will be aware of the exchanges yesterday on the subject of business rate relief and small business rate relief specifically. In view of the fact that the figure of 20 per cent seems to be being talked about, we still await an oral statement from the Minister. I wonder if you could confirm whether there is enough in the budget for a 20 per cent uplift in the business rate relief threshold when that announcement is made?

Nick Bourne: Weinidog, byddwch yn ymwybodol o’r trafodaethau ddoe am ryddhad ardrethi busnesau, a rhyddhad ardrethi busnesau bach yn benodol. O gofio ei bod yn ymddangos mai 20 y cant yw’r ffigur sy’n cael ei grybwyll, yr ydym yn dal i ddisgwyl datganiad llafar gan y Gweinidog ynghylch hynny. Tybed a allech gadarnhau a oes digon o arian yn y gyllideb i gynyddu’r rhyddhad ardrethi busnes 20 y cant pan gaiff y cyhoeddiad hwnnw ei wneud?

Andrew Davies: I am meeting with my colleague, Brian Gibbons, tomorrow to discuss the issue of business rates. We have already had one discussion on them, last week. It would be premature if I were to give any figures at this time, until we have had that discussion. The Minister for Social Justice and Local Government will make any statement necessary after that meeting.

Andrew Davies: Byddaf yn cyfarfod â’m cydweithiwr, Brian Gibbons, yfory i drafod trethi busnes. Yr ydym eisoes wedi cael un drafodaeth amdanynt yr wythnos diwethaf. Mae’n rhy gynnar imi roi unrhyw ffigurau’n awr, cyn inni gael y drafodaeth honno. Bydd y Gweinidog dros Gyfiawnder Cymdeithasol a Llywodraeth Leol yn gwneud unrhyw ddatganiad y bydd angen ei wneud ar ôl y cyfarfod hwnnw.

1.40 p.m.

Nick Ramsay: Minister, I support Mohammad Asghar’s comments to you on the education budget, and the effect that it will have on Coleg Gwent in my constituency. I know that other Assembly Members’ constituencies are also affected by these education cuts, or savings, as you want to call them. On the specific issue of efficiency savings in the context of your draft budget, I think that you are looking for an average efficiency saving of 1.6 per cent in most departments. What jumps out at me, however, is the 5 per cent efficiency saving that you require from the education and skills budget. How, at this time, when we are hoping to come out of recession, can you justify imposing that level of efficiency saving on that sector?

Nick Ramsay: Weinidog, yr wyf yn cefnogi’r sylwadau a wnaed gan Mohammad Asghar am y gyllideb addysg, a’r effaith a gaiff hynny ar Goleg Gwent yn fy etholaeth i. Gwn fod y toriadau hyn, neu arbedion fel yr ydych am eu galw, ym myd addysg hefyd yn cael effaith ar etholaethau Aelodau eraill y Cynulliad. O ran arbedion effeithlonrwydd yn benodol yng nghyd-destun eich cyllideb ddrafft, credaf eich bod yn awyddus i weld arbedion effeithlonrwydd o 1.6 y cant ar gyfartaledd yn y rhan fwyaf o adrannau. Yr hyn sy’n fy nharo yn syth, fodd bynnag, yw’r arbedion effeithlonrwydd o 5% yr ydych am eu cael yn y gyllideb addysg a sgiliau. Sut gallwch gyfiawnhau mynnu’r fath arbedion effeithlonrwydd gan y sector hwnnw ar adeg fel hon, a ninnau’n gobeithio dod allan o ddirwasgiad?

Andrew Davies: As I said in my answer to Mohammad Asghar, this year’s level of funding for FE will broadly be the same as last year’s. All public service providers have to be mindful of the overall financial settlement and ensure that they deliver services efficiently. When we look at the individual ministerial, departmental level of efficiency saving, yes, it is 1.6 per cent for each spending Minister, but then each Minister will work out the spending priorities for his or her department, so it will not be a flat rate of 1.6 per cent across all spending areas in each budget. However, we do see further and higher education as a priority, and I know that, through the investment through strategic capital investment fund in a range of areas, a considerable amount of extra resource is going into the sector over and above the core funding that it receives from the Minister in charge of DCELLS.

Andrew Davies: Fel y dywedais yn fy ateb i Mohammad Asghar, bydd lefel yr arian a fydd ar gael i addysg bellach eleni yr un fath â’r llynedd fwy neu lai. Rhaid i’r holl ddarparwyr gwasanaethau cyhoeddus fod yn ymwybodol o’r setliad ariannol cyffredinol, a sicrhau eu bod yn darparu eu gwasanaethau’n effeithlon. Pan edrychwn ar yr arbedion effeithlonrwydd ar lefel pob gweinidog ac adran unigol, mae’n wir eu bod yn 1.6 y cant i bob Gweinidog sydd â chyllideb, ond bydd pob Gweinidog yn penderfynu blaenoriaethau ei adran ef neu hi o ran gwario, ac felly ni fydd yn gyfradd unffurf o 1.6 y cant ar draws pob maes gwario ym mhob cyllideb. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn ystyried bod addysg bellach ac addysg uwch yn flaenoriaeth, a gwn, trwy’r buddsoddiad y mae’r gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol wedi’i wneud mewn ystod o wahanol feysydd, fod llawer iawn o adnoddau ychwanegol yn mynd i mewn i’r sector, sy’n llawer mwy na’r arian craidd y mae’n ei gael gan y Gweinidog sy’n gyfrifol am APADGOS.

Peter Black: Minister, you will be aware that all the potential candidates the position of First Minister have made a pledge to make education a top priority and, in one case, to increase expenditure on education. What plans are you making to amend your draft budget to take account of that pledge?

Peter Black: Weinidog, byddwch yn ymwybodol bod pob un o’r ymgeiswyr posibl ar gyfer swydd y Prif Weinidog wedi gwneud addewid i wneud addysg yn brif flaenoriaeth, ac y mae un wedi addo cynyddu’r gwariant ar addysg. Pa gynlluniau yr ydych yn eu gwneud i newid eich cyllideb ddrafft i ystyried yr addewid hwnnw?

Andrew Davies: I was asked this question about additional resource for economic development at the Finance Committee only last Thursday, and I was also told that we should be putting more money into education and other areas, and on that occasion, I told the committee that anybody who wants more money for any spending area, be it health, education, economic development, or transport, has to demonstrate where the savings in, or cuts to, other budgets will be made to fund those additional resources.

Andrew Davies: Gofynnwyd y cwestiwn hwn imi ynghylch adnoddau ychwanegol ar gyfer datblygu economaidd yn y Pwyllgor Cyllid ddydd Iau diwethaf, a dywedwyd wrthyf hefyd y dylem fod yn rhoi rhagor o arian mewn addysg a meysydd eraill, a’r pryd hwnnw dywedais wrth y pwyllgor ei bod yn rhaid i unrhyw un sydd am gael rhagor o arian i’w wario mewn unrhyw faes, boed yn iechyd, addysg, datblygu economaidd neu drafnidiaeth, ddangos ble y caiff yr arbedion, neu’r toriadau, mewn cyllidebau eraill eu gwneud i ariannu’r adnoddau ychwanegol hynny.

Nick Ramsay: I thank the Minister for his penultimate answer to my question. While I accept that times are tough at the moment, and, as you say, while it is for individual portfolio holders to identify where savings can be made, I still find it difficult to understand why the efficiency saving of 5 per cent is being required of the education and skills budget. In your answer to Alun Davies, I agreed with you totally when you spoke of the right skills and expertise being required to drive us out of this recession. I still do not think that you have explained adequately why, if you have not imposed it, you have accepted a far more stringent level of efficiency saving from the education and skills budget at a time when we face so many problems in that sector, with the growing funding gap between us and England and the big changes in the Government’s tuition fees policies. Please, Minister, can you provide, not just to me and others in this Chamber, but to the education sector, an adequate and rational explanation for making a far higher level of efficiency-saving cuts in the education sector than in other areas?

Nick Ramsay: Diolch i’r Gweinidog am ei ateb olaf ond un i’m cwestiwn. Er fy mod yn derbyn bod pethau’n anodd ar hyn o bryd, ac fel yr ydych yn ei ddweud, cyfrifoldeb yr unigolion sy’n gyfrifol am bortffolio yw nodi ble y gellir gwneud arbedion, yr wyf yn dal i’w chael yn anodd deall pam yr ydych yn mynnu cael arbediad effeithlonrwydd o 5 y cant yn y gyllideb addysg a sgiliau. Yn eich ateb i Alun Davies, yr oeddwn yn cytuno’n llwyr â chi pan ddywedasoch fod angen y sgiliau a’r arbenigedd iawn i’n tynnu allan o’r dirwasgiad hwn. Ni chredaf eto eich bod wedi esbonio’n ddigonol pam yr ydych, os nad ydych wedi ei bennu,  wedi derbyn arbediad effeithlonrwydd llawer llymach yn y gyllideb addysg a sgiliau, a ninnau’n wynebu cynifer o broblemau yn y sector hwnnw, o gofio’r bwlch cynyddol ariannu rhyngom ni a Lloegr, a’r newidiadau mawr ym mholisïau’r Llywodraeth ar ffïoedd dysgu. Weinidog, os gwelwch yn dda, a rowch chi esboniad digonol a rhesymegol, nid yn unig i mi a phobl eraill yn y Siambr hon, ond i’r sector addysg hefyd, dros wneud toriadau arbedion effeithlonrwydd llawer uwch yn y sector addysg nag mewn meysydd eraill?

Andrew Davies: When it comes to setting the budget, Cabinet has agreed the individual allocations for each spending Minister, and the Ministers then decide their priorities. Clearly, we are working closely with Minister—I am working closely with the Minister for education. Just taking the further education field, following the Webb review and the policy that has been emerging since, there is a great deal of inefficient delivery of further education provision in Wales. The sector has recognised that fact, and it is responding. There are proposals, for example, to merge Swansea and Gorseinon colleges, so there are areas where organisations can deliver services on a local or regional basis in a much more efficient way than previously. To help deliver that, they can also apply for funding from the strategic capital investment fund. On the revenue side, they can apply for invest-to-save funding. The question is why some colleges have not applied for invest-to-save funding to help those merger or reconfiguration proposals.

Andrew Davies: Pan ddaw’n fater o osod y gyllideb, mae’r Cabinet wedi cytuno’r dyraniadau unigol i bob Gweinidog sydd â chyllideb, ac yna bydd y Gweinidogion yn penderfynu eu blaenoriaethau. Yn amlwg, yr ydym yn gweithio’n agos gyda’r Gweinidog—yr wyf fi’n gweithio’n agos gyda’r Gweinidog dros Addysg. Gan ganolbwyntio ar y maes addysg bellach yn unig, yn dilyn adolygiad Webb a’r polisi sydd wedi ymddangos ers hynny, mae llawer iawn o ddarpariaeth addysg bellach aneffeithlon yng Nghymru. Mae’r sector wedi cydnabod y ffaith honno, ac y mae’n ymateb iddi. Ceir cynigion, er enghraifft, i gyfuno coleg Abertawe a choleg Gorseinon, felly, mae yna feysydd lle gall sefydliadau ddarparu gwasanaethau ar lefel leol neu ranbarthol mewn modd llawer mwy effeithlon nag o’r blaen. Er mwyn helpu gwneud hynny, gallant hefyd wneud cais am arian o’r gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol. O ran refeniw, gallant wneud cais am arian o’r gronfa buddsoddi i arbed. Y cwestiwn yw pam nad yw rhai colegau wedi gwneud cais am arian buddsoddi i arbed i helpu’r cynigion cyfuno neu ad-drefnu hynny.

Jenny Randerson: Minister, the auditor general has stated that £1 billion of NHS money has not been spent fully efficiently. He also stated that the public sector in general had failed to achieve its 1 per cent efficiency savings. Therefore, why do you think that higher education and further education are more able to make not just 1 per cent efficiency savings, but 5 per cent efficiency savings? Do you accept that that level of efficiency savings is not a saving but a cut? Do you not think that you should reconsider and spread the problem more evenly, when the auditor general has given distinct evidence that other sectors are not operating as efficiently as they might?

Jenny Randerson: Weinidog, mae’r archwilydd cyffredinol wedi dweud bod £1 biliwn o arian y GIG heb ei wario’n gwbl effeithlon. Dywedodd hefyd fod y sector cyhoeddus yn gyffredinol wedi methu â chyflawni ei arbedion effeithlonrwydd o 1 y cant. Felly, pam yr ydych yn credu bod addysg uwch ac addysg bellach yn fwy abl i wneud arbedion effeithlonrwydd nid o 1 y cant ond o 5 y cant? A ydych yn derbyn nad arbediad yw’r lefel honno o arbedion effeithlonrwydd, ond toriad? Oni chredwch y dylech ailystyried a rhannu’r broblem yn fwy cyfartal, wedi i’r archwilydd cyffredinol roi tystiolaeth bendant nad yw sectorau eraill yn gweithredu mor effeithlon ag y gallent?

Andrew Davies: Mae’n ymddangos ei bod yn arferol imi orfod cywiro Jenny Randerson cyn ymateb i’r cwestiynau. Nid yr archwilydd cyffredinol a ddywedodd fod y GIG yn aneffeithlon ac y gallai arbed £1 biliwn. I’r graddau fy mod yn gyfarwydd â’r cyfeiriad, crerdaf mai cyfarwyddwyr cyllid y gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru a ddywedodd hynny wrth gyflwyno tystiolaeth i’r Pwyllgor Cyllid. Dywedasant y gellid gwario £1 biliwn neu 20 y cant o’r gyllideb gyffredinol yn fwy effeithiol. Yn ail, ni ddywedodd yr archwilydd cyffredinol fod y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru wedi methu â chyrraedd ei darged o arbedion effeithlonrwydd o £600 miliwn dan yr agenda 'Creu’r Cysylltiadau’. Dywedodd nad oedd yn siŵr am y ffigurau, ac yn ei farn ef gallai’r ffigurau fod wedi’u gor-ddweud. Fodd bynnag, cyn gwneud y sylwadau hynny, dywedodd ei fod yn cydnabod bod gwaith Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru’n canolbwyntio ar y gorffennol—yr oedd yn cydnabod ei fod yn tarddu dair blynedd ynghynt ac efallai na fyddai’n adlewyrchu’r sefyllfa bresennol. Dyna’n union y pwynt—nid yw’n adlewyrchu’r sefyllfa bresennol, ac yr ydym yn hyderus y byddwn, erbyn diwedd y flwyddyn ariannol hon, diwedd mis Mawrth 2010, wedi cyrraedd y targed o £600 miliwn a nodwyd yn yr agenda 'Creu’r Cysylltiadau’, neu wedi rhagori arno.

Priorities for the Next Six Months

Blaenoriaethau ar gyfer y Chwe Mis Nesaf

Q3 Irene James: Will the Minister make a statement on his priorities for the next six months? OAQ(3)0846(FPS)

C3 Irene James: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am ei flaenoriaethau ar gyfer y chwe mis nesaf? OAQ(3)0846(FPS)

C8 Rhodri Glyn Thomas: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am ei flaenoriaethau ar gyfer y chwe mis nesaf? OAQ(3)0868(FPS)

Q8 Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Will the Minister make a statement on his priorities for the next six months? OAQ(3)0868(FPS)

Andrew Davies: Despite the current economic climate, we are working towards securing a budget that will help to deliver our 'One Wales’ commitment of a strong and confident nation, while at the same time responding to recessionary and financial pressures and working towards ensuring efficiency and innovation in public service delivery.

Andrew Davies: Er gwaethaf yr hinsawdd economaidd sydd ohoni, yr ydym yn gweithio i sicrhau cyllideb a fydd yn helpu cyflawni ein hymrwymiad yn 'Cymru’n Un’ i greu cenedl gref a hyderus, gan weithio ar yr un pryd i ymateb i bwysau ariannol a phwysau’r dirwasgiad, a gweithio i sicrhau effeithlonrwydd ac arloesedd wrth ddarparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.

Irene James: Thank you for your response. Andrew, I think that we would all agree that local service boards have been a success and that they are bringing an end to the duplication of public services. I am sure that you would agree that we need to consult with as many people as possible to ensure that priories reflect the views of local people so that projects chosen for the local delivery agreement reflect the priorities of local people. With this in mind, how successful have local service boards been in sharing best practice in the way that they consult?  

Irene James: Diolch am eich ymateb. Andrew. Credaf y byddem i gyd yn cytuno bod y byrddau gwasanaethau lleol wedi bod yn llwyddiant ac yn rhoi diwedd ar ddyblygu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddech yn cytuno bod angen inni ymgynghori â chynifer â phosibl o bobl i sicrhau bod blaenoriaethau’n adlewyrchu barn pobl leol, er mwyn i’r prosiectau a ddewisir ar gyfer y cytundeb cyflenwi lleol adlewyrchu blaenoriaethau pobl leol. O ystyried hynny, pa mor llwyddiannus y mae byrddau gwasanaethau lleol wedi bod wrth rannu arfer gorau yn eu dull o ymgynghori?

Andrew Davies: In most cases, LSBs have been effective in not only delivering best practice, but in seeking to share it. We also have a role to play as a Government in helping LSBs across Wales to learn from each other. I visited the Caerphilly Local Service Board to discuss progress some months ago, and I was pleased with the progress that it is making on a whole range of areas. For example, integrated services for children with disabilities are its No. 1 priority, along with looking at integrated mental health service projects in the county borough. The local service board is also looking at how it can market mental health to eliminate stigma and discrimination in the workplace and other places.     

Andrew Davies: Yn y rhan fwyaf o achosion, mae byrddau gwasanaethau lleol wedi bod yn effeithiol wrth weithredu arfer gorau, ac wrth geisio’i rannu hefyd. Mae gennym ni hefyd rôl fel Llywodraeth i helpu byrddau gwasanaethau lleol ar draws Cymru i ddysgu wrth ei gilydd. Ymwelais â Bwrdd Gwasanaethau Lleol Caerffili rai misoedd yn ôl i drafod cynnydd, ac yr oeddwn yn falch o’r cynnydd y mae’n ei wneud mewn ystod eang o feysydd. Er enghraifft, sicrhau gwasanaethau integredig i blant ag anableddau yw ei brif flaenoriaeth, ynghyd ag edrych ar brosiectau integredig ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd meddwl yn y fwrdeistref sirol. Mae’r bwrdd gwasanaethau lleol hefyd yn edrych ar y modd y gall farchnata iechyd meddwl i ddileu’r stigma sy’n gysylltiedig ag ef a’r gwahaniaethu sy’n digwydd yn y gweithle ac mewn mannau eraill.

1.50 p.m.

I also saw a moving example in Rhondda Cynon Taf Local Service Board in the work that it is doing to address domestic abuse. I saw the progress that RCT has made in working with all its partners—the police, the health service and the voluntary sector, and with Women’s Aid in particular—on transforming services for women who are experiencing domestic abuse. We need to spread that example so that it is not just in Rhondda Cynon Taf that victims of abuse can get an immediate response and support, and to ensure that women and men have a similar level of service across Wales. LSBs have a vital role to play in this.

Gwelais enghraifft ddirdynnol ym Mwrdd Gwasanaethau Lleol Rhondda Cynon Taf yn y gwaith y mae’n ei wneud i fynd i’r afael â cham-drin domestig. Gwelais y cynnydd y mae Rhondda Cynon Taf wedi’i wneud wrth weithio gyda’i holl bartneriaid—yr heddlu, y gwasanaeth iechyd a’r sector gwirfoddol, a chyda Cymorth i Fenywod yn benodol—ar drawsnewid gwasanaethau i fenywod sy’n dioddef cam-drin domestig. Mae angen inni rannu’r enghraifft hon gydag eraill er mwyn sicrhau nad yn Rhondda Cynon Taf yn unig y gall pobl sy’n cael eu cam-drin gael ymateb a chymorth ar unwaith, ac er mwyn sicrhau bod menywod a dynion yn cael lefel debyg o wasanaeth ar draws Cymru. Mae gan fyrddau gwasanaethau lleol rôl hanfodol yn hyn.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Yr wyf yn cefnogi’r ffordd yr ydych yn mynd i’r afael â gwariant cyhoeddus, yn enwedig o ystyried y degawd o wasgfa ar gyllidebau gwasanaethau cyhoeddus sy’n ein hwynebu. A ydych yn credu ei bod yn bwysig bod pobl yn gwneud datganiadau ynglŷn â gwariant cyhoeddus ar sail ffeithiau manwl am sut cyflwynir y gwasanaethau hynny, yn hytrach na datganiadau gwag?

Andrew Davies: Absolutely. When I hear a lot of pronouncements, particularly from politicians in the opposing political parties, I am reminded of the George W. Bush attitude towards financial literacy and management. He said:

'It’s clearly a budget. It’s got a lot of numbers in it’.

I hear many of the pronouncements of some of our colleagues in other parties, Rhodri, and obviously they follow the George W. Bush school.

Darren Millar: Of the projects that you recently confirmed will be funded by the strategic capital investment fund, none were in central or north-east Wales. In fact, not a single application from Denbighshire, Conway, Flintshire or Wrexham was successful, and of the £120 million allocated under the SCIF, only two projects from north Wales were successful, amounting to just 15 per cent of the total distributed. I do not think that that is acceptable, Minister, and it suggests a massive regional bias to areas outside of north Wales. Those who have submitted applications have indicated to me that they feel that the bidding process has left a lot to be desired. I would be interested to hear your response to this suggestion of regional bias and to know what you are doing to ensure that every part of Wales is able to benefit from this investment fund in the future.

Darren Millar: O’r prosiectau a gadarnhawyd gennych yn ddiweddar y byddant yn cael eu hariannu gan y gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol, nid oedd yr un ohonynt yn y canolbarth neu’r gogledd-ddwyrain. Yn wir, nid oedd yr un cais o Sir Ddinbych, Conwy, Sir y Fflint na Wrecsam yn llwyddiannus, ac o’r £120 miliwn a ddyrannwyd dan y gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol, dau brosiect yn unig o’r gogledd fu’n llwyddiannus, sef 15 y cant yn unig o’r cyfanswm a ddyrannwyd. Ni chredaf fod hynny’n dderbyniol, Weinidog, ac y mae’n awgrymu ffafriaeth fawr i ardaloedd y tu allan i’r gogledd. Mae’r rheini sydd wedi cyflwyno ceisiadau wedi dweud wrthyf eu bod yn teimlo bod llawer o le i wella’r broses ymgeisio. Hoffwn glywed eich ymateb i’r awgrym hwn o ffafriaeth ranbarthol, a hoffwn wybod beth yr ydych yn ei wneud i sicrhau y bydd pob rhan o Gymru’n gallu elwa o’r gronfa fuddsoddi hon yn y dyfodol.

Andrew Davies: I reject the idea that there is any bias against any part of Wales. If you look at the first tranche of the SCIF, which was almost three times as much as the second tranche, which was £350 million, you will see that several projects were in north-east Wales. There was a £5 million-project for Wrexham secondary schools and £27 million was invested in improving the transport infrastructure, and rail infrastructure in particular, to improve local services and north-south travel times. I refute any allegation that north-east Wales or any other part of Wales has been disadvantaged. Such an allegation also ignores the fact that many of the projects that were approved—the overwhelming majority in both the first and second tranches—were not local or regional bids but were all-Wales bids. For example, the extra £42 million on affordable homes in the first tranche will benefit Wrexham, Denbighshire and Flintshire if bids are made by local housing associations or local authorities. Therefore, I refute the allegation that you made.

Andrew Davies: Yr wyf yn gwrthod y syniad fod unrhyw ran o Gymru’n cael ei ffafrio. Os edrychwch ar gyfran gyntaf y gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol a oedd bron i deirgwaith yn fwy na’r ail gyfran, a oedd yn £350 miliwn, gwelwch fod nifer o’r prosiectau yn y gogledd-ddwyrain. Cafwyd prosiect o £5 miliwn ar gyfer ysgolion uwchradd Wrecsam, a buddsoddwyd £27 miliwn mewn gwella’r isadeiledd trafnidiaeth, a’r isadeiledd rheilffyrdd yn benodol, i wella gwasanaethau lleol ac amserau teithio o’r gogledd i’r de. Yr wyf yn gwrthod unrhyw honiad fod y gogledd-ddwyrain neu unrhyw ran arall o Gymru wedi bod dan anfantais. Mae honiad o’r fath hefyd yn anwybyddu’r ffaith nad cynigion lleol neu ranbarthol oedd nifer o’r prosiectau a gymeradwywyd—y mwyafrif llethol yn y gyfran gyntaf a’r ail gyfran—ond cynigion ar gyfer Cymru gyfan. Er enghraifft, bydd Wrecsam, Sir Ddinbych a Sir y Fflint yn elwa o’r £42 miliwn ychwanegol a gaiff ei wario ar dai fforddiadwy yn y gyfran gyntaf, os caiff ceisiadau eu gwneud gan gymdeithasau tai lleol neu awdurdodau lleol. Felly, yr wyf yn gwrthod yr honiad a wnaethoch.

Alun Cairns: I would like to pursue this a little further, because you well know that the Auditor General for Wales conducted an investigation into the process by which SCIF is allocated and raised serious concerns about how SCIF was allocated in the first tranche, although he accepts that changes have been made in order to allow a more balanced judgment to be made in relation to future SCIF allocations. Therefore, would you like to reconsider your answer, because I put it to you that when the SCIF was first considered, there were no robust assessments to allow a balanced judgment to be made on the basis of need rather than any other interest?

Alun Cairns: Hoffwn ddilyn y mater hwn ychydig ymhellach, oherwydd gwyddoch n iawn fd Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru wedi cynnal ymchwiliad i’r broses o ddyrannu arian o’r gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol, a mynegodd bryderon difrifol am y modd y cafodd cyfran gyntaf y gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol ei dyrannu, er ei fod yn derbyn bod newidiadau wedi’u gwneud er mwyn caniatau gwneud penderfyniad mwy cytbwys ynghylch dyraniadau’r gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol yn y dyfodol. Felly, a hoffech ailystyried eich ateb, oherwydd cynigiaf i chi, pan ystyriwyd y gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol yn y lle cyntaf, ni wnaed dim asesiadau trylwyr i ganiatau gwneud penderfyniad cytbwys ar sail anghenion yn hytrach nag unrhyw fudd arall?

Andrew Davies: I do not recognise those comments as relating to the SCIF process. It is an open and transparent process, and it is a collaborative process through which we work with local authorities and others on bids. There are clear criteria by which those bids will be assessed. It is very transparent. When organisations make bids, they are aware of the criteria against which they will be assessed. They are then assessed internally by officials, and the strategic capital investment fund advisory panel, chaired by Dr Tim Stone, then applies its commercial expertise. So, it is a rigorous, transparent and, ultimately, accountable process. I therefore absolutely refute this allegation that there is a regional or non-regional bias in the way that we deal with the strategic capital investment fund process. I said in my very first answer, to the question from David Melding—I do not know if you were here at the time, Alun—that I have instigated a review, and we always review everything that we do. The SCIF process can be improved, and we accept that it is by no means perfect, but then, I suspect that perfection in life is unattainable.

Andrew Davies: Ni chredaf fod y sylwadau hynny’n wir am broses y gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol. Mae’n broses agored ac eglur, ac yn broses gydweithredol lle’r ydym yn gweithio gydag awdurdodau lleol ac eraill ar geisiadau. Mae yna feini prawf clir ar gyfer asesu’r ceisiadau hynny. Mae’n hollol eglur. Pan fydd sefydliadau’n gwneud ceisiadau, maent yn ymwybodol o’r meini prawf ar gyfer eu hasesu. Yna cânt eu hasesu’n fewnol gan swyddogion, ac yna bydd panel cynghori’r gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol, dan gadeiryddiaeth Dr Tim Stone, yn defnyddio’i arbenigedd masnachol. Felly, mae’n broses drwyadl, eglur ac atebol yn y pen draw. Yr wyf felly’n gwrthod yn llwyr yr honiad fod ffafriaeth ranbarthol neu ffafriaeth arall yn dylanwadu ar y modd yr ydym yn ymdrin â phroses y gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol. Dywedais yn fy ateb cyntaf un i’r cwestiwn gan David Melding—ni wn a oeddech yma ar y pryd, Alun—fy mod wedi dechrau adolygiad, a byddwn bob amser yn adolygu popeth a wnawn. Mae lle i wella proses y gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol, ac yr ydym yn derbyn nad yw’n berffaith o bell ffordd, ond eto, yr wyf yn amau a yw perffeithrwydd yn bosibl mewn bywyd.

Auditing of Public Bodies

Archwilio Cyrff Cyhoeddus

Q5 Leanne Wood: Will the Minister make a statement regarding the auditing of public bodies? OAQ(3)0866(FPS)

Andrew Davies: I recently announced a policy statement on inspection, audit and regulation, which brings together for the first time the Assembly Government’s policies across devolved and non-devolved public services operating in Wales. The statement outlines our principles and direction, as well as the proposals for putting these into practice.

Andrew Davies: Yn ddiweddar cyhoeddais ddatganiad polisi ar arolygu, archwilio a rheoleiddio, sy’n tynnu ynghyd, am y tro cyntaf, bolisïau Llywodraeth y Cynulliad o ran gwasanaethau cyhoeddus sy’n gweithredu yng Nghymru sydd wedi eu datganoli a heb eu datganoli. Mae’r datganiad yn amlinellu ein hegwyddorion a’n cyfeiriad, yn ogystal â’r cynigion ar gyfer rhoi’r rhain ar waith.

Leanne Wood: I have had some serious concerns raised with me about management practice in the Wales Audit Office. I have been in correspondence with Jonathan Morgan in his capacity as Chair of the former Audit Committee, now known as the Public Accounts Committee, and it appears that the committee has no powers to scrutinise the Auditor General for Wales about the way in which the Wales Audit Office is run. I am sure that you will agree that it is vital that people have full confidence in the organisation charged with auditing public bodies in Wales, so I would be grateful if you could tell us what you can do to ensure that the auditor general is held to account for the way that the Wales Audit Office is run. In short, Minister, how can you ensure that this Assembly gets to scrutinise the scrutiniser?

Leanne Wood: Mae pobl wedi dod ataf yn mynegi pryderon difrifol am y modd y caiff Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru ei rheoli. Yr wyf wedi bod yn gohebu â Jonathan Morgan yn ei rôl fel Cadeirydd yr hen Bwyllgor Archwilio, sef y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus erbyn hyn, ac y mae’n ymddangos nad oes gan y Pwyllgor ddim pwerau i graffu ar Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru a’r modd y caiff Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru ei rhedeg. Yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunwch ei bod yn hanfodol i bobl fod yn hollol ffyddiog yn y sefydliad sy’n gyfrifol am archwilio cyrff cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Felly, byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallech ddweud wrthym beth y gallwch ei wneud i sicrhau bod yr archwilydd cyffredinol yn cael ei alw i gyfrif am y modd y caiff Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru ei rhedeg. Yn fyr, Weinidog, sut y gallwch sicrhau bod modd i’r Cynulliad hwn archwilio’r archwilydd?

Andrew Davies: I am on record on many occasions as saying that decisions that are accountable and transparent are inherently better decisions. That applies to all public bodies. As a Minister, I have sought and, I am delighted to say, obtained from the UK Government agreement to submit an amendment to the Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill, and that amendment was agreed to by the House of Commons last week. I have been working with the Chair of the Public Accounts Committee on this, and that amendment will give the Assembly—not us as a Government—the power to introduce new governance arrangements for the Wales Audit Office. These parallel the powers that the UK Parliament has sought for the accountability of the National Audit Office. It would then be a matter for the Public Accounts Committee and the Assembly to see how they wish to exercise those powers, but it may well be that they will wish to set up a supervisory board to which the Auditor General for Wales and the Wales Audit Office will report.

Andrew Davies: Yr wyf wedi dweud ar goedd droeon fod penderfyniadau sy’n atebol ac yn eglur yn benderfyniadau gwell yn y bôn. Mae hynny’n berthnasol i bob corff cyhoeddus. Fel Gweinidog, yr wyf wedi ceisio, ac yr wyf yn falch o gael dweud, wedi cael cytundeb gan Lywodraeth y DU i gyflwyno gwelliant yn y Mesur Diwygio Cyfansoddiadol a Llywodraethu, a chytunwyd y gwelliant hwnnw gan Dŷ’r Cyffredin yr wythnos diwethaf. Yr wyf wedi bod yn gweithio gyda Chadeirydd y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus ar hyn, a bydd y gwelliant hwnnw’n rhoi grym i’r Cynulliad—nid i ni fel Llywodraeth—i gyflwyno trefniadau llywodraethu newydd ar gyfer Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru. Mae’r pwerau hyn yn debyg i’r rhai y mae Senedd y DU wedi ceisio’u cael ar gyfer atebolrwydd y Swyddfa Archwilio Genedlaethol. Yna, mater i’r Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus a’r Cynulliad fyddai penderfynu sut y dymunent arfer y pwerau hynny, ond y mae’n bur debyg y byddant yn dymuno sefydlu bwrdd goruchwylio y bydd Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru a Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru yn adrodd iddo.

Your question is well put, and it is right that we should consider who guards the guards. In fact, the auditor general himself instigated the international peer review of the Wales Audit Office, and while it commended many of the operations of the WAO, it indicated that governance and internal management needed to be addressed. I am sure that this amendment to the Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill will give the Assembly powers so that the auditor general and the WAO are accountable.

Yr ydych wedi mynegi eich cwestiwn yn dda, ac y mae’n iawn inni ystyried pwy sy’n gwarchod y gwarchodwyr. Mewn gwirionedd, yr archwilydd cyffredinol ei hun a fu’n gyfrifol am ddechrau’r adolygiad rhyngwladol gan gymheriaid o Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru, ac er ei fod wedi cymeradwyo nifer o weithrediadau Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru, dywedai fod angen mynd i’r afael â llywodraethu a rheolaeth fewnol. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y gwelliant hwn yn y Mesur Diwygio Cyfansoddiadol a Llywodraethu yn rhoi pwerau i’r Cynulliad fel y bydd yr archwilydd cyffredinol a Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru yn atebol.

The Presiding Officer: Order. Before I call Jonathan Morgan, the Chair of the Public Accounts Committee, I will point out that although I allowed that question, this is a matter for the National Assembly for Wales. The auditor general is elected by the Assembly and is appointed by Her Majesty. If you wish to discuss this matter further, Leanne, I would be very happy to do so.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Cyn imi alw ar Jonathan Morgan, Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus, hoffwn nodi, er fy mod wedi caniatáu’r cwestiwn hwnnw, mai mater i Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yw hwn. Caiff yr archwilydd cyffredinol ei ethol gan y Cynulliad a’i benodi gan Ei Mawrhydi. Os hoffech drafod y mater hwn ymhellach, Leanne, byddwn yn barod iawn i wneud hynny.

Jonathan Morgan: As Chair of the committee, I welcome the fact that an amendment has been secured in the Bill process, and we look forward to the powers being transferred to the Assembly to allow a committee to effect changes to the governance of the Wales Audit Office. Whatever changes are recommended need to be based on good evidence, and we need to ensure that we have a framework that is fit for purpose. I am sure that the Minister will agree with me that whatever changes are recommended through an Assembly Measure, they cannot and should not affect or interrupt the independence of the Auditor General for Wales. For Government to work effectively and responsibly in a healthy democracy, we need to ensure that we have an auditor general who can work independently in providing good advice and guidance. Any move towards interrupting that independence should be resisted.

Jonathan Morgan: Fel Cadeirydd y pwyllgor, yr wyf yn croesawu’r ffaith fod gwelliant wedi’i wneud yn y Mesur, ac edrychwn ymlaen at yr adeg pan gaiff y pwerau eu trosglwyddo i’r Cynulliad i alluogi pwyllgor i wneud newidiadau yn y modd y caiff Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru ei llywodraethu. Mae angen i ba bynnag newidiadau a gaiff eu hargymell fod yn seiliedig ar dystiolaeth dda, ac y mae angen inni sicrhau bod gennym fframwaith addas ar y diben. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y Gweinidog yn cytuno â mi na all ac na ddylai dim newidiadau a argymhellir trwy Fesur Cynulliad effeithio nac amharu ar annibyniaeth Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru. Er mwyn i Lywodraeth weithio’n effeithiol ac yn gyfrifol mewn democratiaeth iach, mae angen inni sicrhau bod gennym archwilydd cyffredinol sy’n gallu gweithio’n annibynnol wrth ddarparu cyngor ac arweiniad da. Dylid gwrthsefyll unrhyw gynnig i ymyrryd â’r annibyniaeth honno.

2.00 p.m.

Andrew Davies: Absolutely. I made that point when I briefed Members of Parliament and Members of the House of Lords last week on the proposed amendments to the Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill. In no way was this meant to infringe, limit or damage the operational and strategic independence of the auditor general and the work of the Wales Audit Office. The international peer review instigated by Jeremy Colman indicated that the governance arrangements of the WAO did need reforming, and I think that there is broad agreement on that. We have to propose the amendment, under our present powers as a Government, but it is clear that it will be for the Assembly, as the Presiding Officer pointed out, not the Welsh Assembly Government to see how it wishes that power to be exercised.

Andrew Davies: Yn hollol. Gwneuthum y pwynt hwnnw wrth imi friffio Aelodau Seneddol ac Aelodau Tŷ’r Arglwyddi yr wythnos diwethaf ar y gwelliannau arfaethedig yn y Mesur Diwygio Cyfansoddiadol a Llywodraethu. Nid oedd bwriad o gwbl i hyn dresmasu, cyfyngu nac amharu ar annibyniaeth weithredol a strategol yr archwilydd cyffredinol a gwaith Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru. Adolygiad rhyngwladol gan gymheiriaid ydoedd a ddechreuwyd gan Jeremy Colman yn dangos bod angen gwella trefniadau llywodraethu Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru, a chredaf fod pawb yn weddol gytûn ynghylch hynny. Rhaid i ni gynnig y gwelliant, dan ein pwerau presennol fel Llywodraeth, ond y mae’n glir mai’r Cynulliad, nid Llywodraeth y Cynulliad fel y dywedodd y Llywydd, a fydd yn gyfrifol am benderfynu sut y mae’n dymuno arfer y pŵer hwnnw.

The Presiding Officer: Thank you for that, Minister.

Y Llywydd: Diolch am hynny, Weinidog.

Environment, Sustainability and Housing

Yr Amgylchedd, Cynaliadwyedd a Thai

Q6 Mick Bates: Will the Minister make a statement on the amount of money allocated for the environment, sustainability and housing budget for the next financial year? OAQ(3)0872(FPS)

Andrew Davies: The Assembly Government’s draft budget allocation for the environment, sustainability and housing portfolio for 2010-11 is £369 million of revenue and £348 million of capital.

Andrew Davies: Mae cyllideb ddrafft Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn dyrannu £369 miliwn o arian refeniw a £348 miliwn o arian cyfalaf ar gyfer y portffolio amgylchedd, cynaliadwyedd a thai yn 2010-11.

Mick Bates: I thank you for that statement of fact, Minister. I listened with interest to your answers about how, in your budget-setting process, you responded to the recession, and I am interested to hear how you have responded to climate change. Today, 100 MPs have signed an early-day motion—51 of whom were Labour MPs, 41 were Liberal and seven were Tories—to call on the Government to take stronger action and invest more in combating climate change. I admire the 'One Wales’ document, in which there is a target to reduce carbon emissions by 3 per cent by 2011. However, all that needs investment and, as far as I can see, your budget-setting process did not take into account the financial demands of meeting that target. In your answer, will you give some clarity as to how you took climate change into account when setting this budget?

Mick Bates: Diolch ichi am y datganiad hwnnw o ffaith, Weinidog. Gwrandewais gyda diddordeb ar eich atebion am y ffordd yr ydych wedi ymateb i’r dirwasgiad wrth osod cyllidebau, ac y mae gennyf ddiddordeb clywed sut yr ydych wedi ymateb i’r newid yn yr hinsawdd. Heddiw mae 100 o Aelodau Seneddol wedi llofnodi cynnig cynnar-yn-y-dydd—yr oedd 51 ohonynt yn Aelodau Seneddol Llafur, 41 yn Aelodau Rhyddfrydol a saith yn Dorïaid—i alw ar y Llywodraeth i gymryd camau cadarnach a buddsoddi rhagor i atal y newid yn yr hinsawdd. Yr wyf yn edmygu dogfen 'Cymru’n Un’, lle mae targed i leihau allyriadau carbon 3 y cant erbyn 2011. Fodd bynnag, mae hynny i gyd yn gofyn am fuddsoddi, a hyd y gwelaf, nid oedd eich proses o bennu cyllideb yn ystyried y galwadau ariannol wrth gyrraedd y targed hwnnw. Yn eich ateb, a wnewch chi roi ychydig eglurhad sut yr ystyriwyd y newid yn yr hinsawdd gennych wrth osod y gyllideb hon?

Andrew Davies: It is one of our major commitments. It is in 'One Wales’ and a core legal principle under our constitutional that we have a duty to consider sustainable development. The revenue increase of 5.4 per cent that we put into the environment, sustainability and housing budget is well above the average of 2.1 per cent for Assembly Government departments overall. Within that, there is additional funding for a range of measures, building on existing programmes and expenditure, to address the challenges of climate change, including promoting energy efficiency, waste minimisation and recycling, dealing with flood-risk management or investing in flood protection. I will write to you, Mick, itemising the additional items of expenditure over and above existing spend to tackle climate change.

Andrew Davies: Mae hwn yn un o’n prif ymrwymiadau. Mae’n rhan o 'Cymru’n Un’ ac yn egwyddor gyfreithiol greiddiol yn ein cyfansoddiad fod dyletswydd arnom i ystyried datblygu cynaliadwy. Mae’r cynnydd refeniw o 5.4 y cant yr ydym yn ei roi yn y gyllideb ar gyfer yr amgylchedd, cynaliadwyedd a thai lawer yn uwch na’r cyfartaledd o 2.1 y cant ar gyfer adrannau Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn gyffredinol. Yn y gyllideb honno mae arian ychwanegol ar gyfer ystod o fesurau, gan adeiladu ar wariant cyfredol a rhaglenni sy’n bodoli eisoes, i fynd i’r afael â heriau’r newid yn yr hinsawdd, gan gynnwys hyrwyddo defnyddio ynni’n effeithlon, lleihau gwastraff ac ailgylchu, ymdrin â rheoli perygl llifogydd neu fuddsoddi mewn amddiffyn rhag llifogydd. Ysgrifennaf atoch, Mick, yn nodi’r eitemau gwariant sy’n ychwanegol at y gwariant presennol ar fynd i’r afael â’r newid yn yr hinsawdd.

Mark Isherwood: I note that the draft budget includes a flat-line budget for the major repairs allowance of £108 million a year. I also note that individual registered social landlords, following a stock transfer, require gap funding or dowry payments for up to 30 years, but the Welsh Assembly Government’s commitment will be legally binding for only five years. Therefore, for all the transfers anticipated, if they go through, we are looking at a potential requirement of nearly £52 million. What discussions have you had with private sector funders, who would be providing the balance of the funding for this, and what provision have you made within the budget, particularly within that for the major repairs allowance, to fund these gap payments?

Mark Isherwood: Sylwaf fod y gyllideb ddrafft yn cynnwys cyllideb unffurf ar gyfer y lwfans atgyweiriadau mawr, sy’n £108 miliwn y flwyddyn. Sylwaf hefyd fod angen i landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig unigol, yn dilyn trosglwyddo stoc tai, gael cyllid pontio neu daliadau gwaddol am hyd at 30 mlynedd, ond am bum mlynedd yn unig y bydd ymrwymiad Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn gyfreithiol rwymol. Felly, os bydd pob trosglwyddiad a ragwelir yn digwydd, gallai fod angen bron i £52 miliwn. Pa drafodaethau yr ydych wedi’u cael gyda chyllidwyr y sector preifat, a fyddai’n darparu gweddill y cyllid ar gyfer hyn, a pha ddarpariaeth yr ydych wedi’i gwneud yn y gyllideb, yn enwedig yn y gyllideb honno ar gyfer y lwfans atgyweiriadau mawr, i gyllido’r taliadau pontio hyn?

Andrew Davies: Either the Deputy Minister for Housing, Jocelyn Davies, or I will write to you specifically on the major repairs allowance, but, as I have said, affordable housing is a priority for us, and we have put in considerable additional resource to reach our target of building 6,500 new affordable home units by 2011. We are also actively taking forward the work of the affordable housing review conducted by Sue Essex, and a key area that we are looking at is how we can give housing associations and registered social landlords more flexibility in raising additional resource through private sector investment and in actively pursuing the proposal to set up a Welsh housing bond, which Jocelyn Davies and I have been working on. So, for a whole range of areas, we are looking to draw down additional investment, whether it is from the public or, as in this case, the private sector.

Andrew Davies: Byddaf fi neu’r Dirprwy Weinidog dros Dai, Jocelyn Davies, yn ysgrifennu atoch yn benodol am y lwfans atgyweiriadau mawr, ond fel yr wyf wedi sôn, mae tai fforddiadwy yn flaenoriaeth inni, ac yr ydym wedi clustnodi adnoddau sylweddol i gyrraedd ein targed o adeiladu 6,500 o gartrefi fforddiadwy newydd erbyn 2011. Yn ogystal, yr ydym wrthi’n mynd ymlaen â’r gwaith yn yr adolygiad tai fforddiadwy a wnaed gan Sue Essex, ac un maes allweddol yr ydym yn edrych arno yw’r modd y gallwn roi mwy o hyblygrwydd i gymdeithasau tai a landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig i godi adnoddau ychwanegol trwy fuddsoddi gan y sector preifat, a mynd ar ôl y cynnig i sefydlu Bond Tai Cymru y mae Jocelyn Davies a minnau wedi bod yn gweithio arno. Ar gyfer ystod eang iawn o feysydd, felly, yr ydym yn ceisio cael gafael ar fuddsoddiad ychwanegol, boed oddi wrth y sector cyhoeddus ynteu, yn yr achos hwn, oddi wrth y sector preifat.

Value for Money

Gwerth am Arian

Q7 Val Lloyd: Will the Minister give an update on work being carried out to achieve value for money in public service delivery? OAQ(3)0867(FPS)

C7 Val Lloyd: A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y gwaith a wneir i gyflawni gwerth am arian wrth gyflenwi gwasanaethau cyhoeddus? OAQ(3)0867(FPS)

Andrew Davies: There are several initiatives that are making a major impact in achieving increased value for money across Wales. For example, in procurement, we are delivering significant benefits through framework agreements, which have released savings of some £96 million. Our e-procurement programme, Xchangewales, has delivered savings of £17 million. The invest-to-save fund that I announced in May is already supporting a wide variety of public sector efficiency projects, involving joint working and transformational change.

Andrew Davies: Mae nifer o fentrau’n cael effaith sylweddol ar sicrhau mwy o werth am yr arian ar draws Cymru. Er enghraifft, o ran caffael, yr ydym yn sicrhau buddiannau sylweddol trwy gytundebau fframwaith, sydd wedi arwain at arbedion o ryw £96 miliwn. Mae ein rhaglen e-gaffael, cyfnewidcymru, wedi sicrhau arbedion o £17 miliwn. Mae’r gronfa buddsoddi i arbed a gyhoeddais ym mis Mai eisoes yn cefnogi amrywiaeth eang o brosiectau effeithlonrwydd yn y sector cyhoeddus, gan gynnwys gweithio ar y cyd a newid trawsffurfiol.

Val Lloyd: Thank you, Minister, for that comprehensive answer. You may well have heard my comments in the Chamber yesterday regarding plans by Fujitsu to make more than 1,200 staff redundant. I understand that many of the staff at risk provide IT support to essential Government services, including those provided by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency, based in my constituency. I am very concerned about this announcement, and I believe that it is a response to the pressure on Government departments drastically to reduce running costs. Although there is a definite need to drive the efficiency agenda in these tough economic times to ensure value for money in public service delivery, do you agree that that should not be done at the expense of highly skilled staff?

Val Lloyd: Diolch, Weinidog, am eich ateb cynhwysfawr. Mae’n ddigon posibl eich bod wedi clywed fy sylwadau yn y Siambr ddoe ynghylch cynlluniau Fujitsu i ddiswyddo dros 1,200 o staff. Yr wyf ar ddeall bod nifer o’r staff sydd mewn perygl yn darparu cymorth TG i wasanaethau hanfodol y Llywodraeth, gan gynnwys y gwasanaethau hynny a ddarperir gan yr Asiantaeth Trwyddedu Gyrwyr a Cherbydau, sydd yn fy etholaeth i. Yr wyf yn pryderu’n fawr am y cyhoeddiad hwn, a chredaf mai ymateb y mae i’r pwysau ar adrannau’r Llywodraeth i leihau costau rhedeg yn sylweddol. Er bod angen pendant am weithredu’r agenda effeithlonrwydd yn ystod y cyfnod hwn o galedi economaidd er mwyn sicrhau gwerth yr arian wrth ddarparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, a ydych yn cytuno na ddylid gwneud hynny ar draul staff medrus iawn?

Andrew Davies: Absolutely. We were concerned to hear the announcement. Assembly Government officials have been in discussions with Fujitsu about the announcement and its impact on Wales. The early indications are that any job losses will be achieved through natural wastage and early retirement, and through reconfiguration, with the flexible permanent employee and non-contract-specific section of its workforce. The indications at this stage are that the impact on Wales will be minimal. We will work with the company to understand its plans more clearly. If there is to be a direct impact on employees in Wales, we will want to engage with the company early on to deal with that situation.

Andrew Davies: Yn bendant. Yr oedd y cyhoeddiad yn peri pryder inni. Mae swyddogion Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi bod yn trafod gyda Fujitsu ynghylch y cyhoeddiad a’r effaith a gaiff ar Gymru. Yr arwyddion cynnar yw y bydd unrhyw swyddi a gollir yn digwydd wrth i bobl ymadael yn naturiol ac ymddeol yn gynnar, a thrwy ad-drefnu ymhlith y gweithwyr parhaol hyblyg a gweithwyr heb gontract penodol yn y gweithlu. Yr arwyddion ar hyn o bryd yw na fydd yn cael llawer o effaith ar Gymru. Byddwn yn gweithio gyda’r cwmni i ddeall ei gynlluniau’n well. Os bydd effaith uniongyrchol ar weithwyr yng Nghymru, byddwn am gysylltu â’r cwmni’n gynnar i fynd i’r afael â’r sefyllfa honno.

The Presiding Officer: I call Alun Cairns.

Alun Cairns: Forgive me, Llywydd, but are we moving on to question 1 to the Minister for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills or are we still on question 7 to Andrew Davies?

Alun Cairns: Maddeuwch imi, Lywydd, ond a ydym yn symud ymlaen at gwestiwn 1 i’r Gweinidog dros Blant, Addysg, Dysgu Gydol Oes a Sgiliau, neu a ydym yn dal i fod ar gwestiwn 7 i Andrew Davies?

The Presiding Officer: We are still on questions to the Minister for Finance and Public Service Delivery.

Y Llywydd: Yr ydym yn dal i ofyn cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Gyllid a Chyflenwi Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus.

Alun Cairns: In that case, I no longer wish to ask my supplementary question.

Eleanor Burnham: I am sure that we all want to achieve the best value for money in public service delivery, and I know that that is at the forefront of your mind, Minister. I note that an expert panel has been convened to write some important words on 'Are we being served?’, which is now out for consultation. I am querying this because not a lot of people know about it. I have delved very deeply to get a copy of this wonderful piece of work, which is absolutely thrilling. One of the things that you are looking at in the document, 'Are we being served?’, has to do with the ability of councillors to carry out their duties. Can you tell me, because I am quite keen to know, how relevant you consider the work of the expert panel—which I note includes no Liberal Democrats, unless I am mistaken—to be? Do you consider that this worthy report by these worthy members will achieve better outcomes for better delivery, and will we be best served? In the meantime, could you perhaps send us a note on how much it has cost to do this exercise?

Eleanor Burnham: Yr wyf yn siŵr ein bod i gyd am sicrhau’r gwerth gorau am arian wrth ddarparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, a gwn fod hynny ar flaen eich meddwl, Weinidog. Sylwaf fod panel arbenigol wedi’i ymgynnull i ysgrifennu rhai geiriau pwysig ar 'At eich gwasanaeth?’ yr ymgynghorir yn ei gylch ar hyn o bryd. Yr wyf yn holi ynghylch hyn oherwydd nid oes llawer o bobl yn gwybod amdano. Yr wyf wedi chwilio’n galed iawn i gael copi o’r darn gwych hwn o waith, sy’n hynod ddifyr. Mae un o’r pethau yr ydych yn rhoi sylw iddo yn y ddogfen, 'At eich gwasanaeth?’, yn ymwneud â gallu cynghorwyr i gyflawni eu dyletswyddau. A allwch ddweud wrthyf, oherwydd yr wyf yn awyddus i wybod, pa mor berthnasol dybiwch chi yw’r gwaith y mae’r panel arbenigol—nad yw’n cynnwys yr un Democrat Rhyddfrydol gyda llaw, oni bai fy mod yn camgymryd—yn ei wneud? A ydych yn credu y bydd yr adroddiad teilwng hwn gan yr aelodau teilwng hyn yn cael gwell canlyniadau a gwell darpariaeth, ac a fyddwn yn cael y gwasanaeth gorau posibl? Yn y cyfamser, a allech anfon gair atom yn dweud faint y mae wedi’i gostio i gynnal yr ymarfer hwn?

Andrew Davies: The lack of understanding and knowledge is very extensive because, not for the first time, I am afraid, I do not understand what you are talking about, Eleanor.

Andrew Davies: Mae’r diffyg dealltwriaeth a gwybodaeth yn helaeth iawn oherwydd nid wyf yn deall, ac nid am y tro cyntaf, ofnaf, am beth yr ydych yn sôn, Eleanor.

Eleanor Burnham: Shall I repeat it? [Laughter.]

The Presiding Officer: Order. No. I call Helen Mary Jones.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Na. Galwaf ar Helen Mary Jones.

Eleanor Burnham: 'Are we being served?’—

The Presiding Officer: Order. No. That is not appropriate. You are not in charge of these proceedings. Please sit down. No-one is able to ask the same question twice. I call Helen Mary Jones.

2.10 p.m.

Helen Mary Jones: Minister, you must have all our support, across the Chamber in ensuring that we get maximum value for money from the delivery of public services, particularly with finances as difficult as they are at the moment. However, I am concerned that some public bodies may be using this as an opportunity or an excuse to pass on the pressures directly to vulnerable voluntary organisations. The specific example that I have in mind is a process that is taking place between Carmarthenshire County Council and the Women’s Aid groups in Carmarthenshire. I do not expect you to comment on that particular case, but what assurances can you give us that, during this process, you will not expect local authorities or any other public bodies disproportionately to disadvantage the voluntary organisations serving those communities, and what steps can you take centrally to ensure that that does not happen?

Helen Mary Jones: Weinidog, rhaid ichi gael cefnogaeth pob un ohonom ar draws y Siambr i sicrhau ein bod yn cael y gwerth gorau am arian wrth ddarparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, yn enwedig o gofio mor anodd yw arian ar hyn o bryd. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn pryderu efallai fod rhai cyrff cyhoeddus yn defnyddio hynny fel cyfle neu esgus i drosglwyddo’r pwysau’n uniongyrchol i fudiadau gwirfoddol sydd mewn sefyllfa wan. Yr enghraifft benodol sydd gennyf mewn golwg yw proses sy’n digwydd rhwng Cyngor Sir Caerfyrddin a grwpiau Cymorth i Ferched yn Sir Gâr. Nid wyf yn disgwyl ichi roi sylwadau ar yr achos penodol hwnnw, ond pa sicrwydd y gallwch ei roi inni na fyddwch, yn ystod y broses hon, yn disgwyl i awdurdodau lleol nac unrhyw gyrff cyhoeddus eraill roi mudiadau gwirfoddol, sy’n gwasanaethu’r cymunedau hynny, dan anfantais anghymesur, a pha gamau y gallwch eu cymryd yn ganolog i sicrhau na fydd hynny’n digwydd?

Andrew Davies: It is clearly of widespread concern, and it has been raised with me and with the Minister for Social Justice and Local Government. We have discussed this issue with the Welsh Local Government Association. We are aware of the concerns not just of that organisation but of any organisation about the services provided. The local service board is crucial in looking and planning services at a local level, avoiding unnecessary duplication, and focusing on who can provide the best services, whether it is the third or voluntary sector or the statutory sector. I am very impressed with what is happening in Rhondda Cynon Taf. Through the local service board, I met the people behind the Kafka Brigade project on domestic violence, as I said in response to Irene James. The Women’s Aid organisations across the borough are playing a leading role. However, that has challenged them to think about how they deliver services, and they are aware that they also need to be much more efficient and to rationalise what they do.

Andrew Davies: Mae’n amlwg fod hyn yn peri pryder i nifer o bobl, ac y mae’r pwynt wedi ei godi gyda mi a’r Gweinidog dros Gyfiawnder Cymdeithasol a Llywodraeth Leol. Yr ydym wedi trafod y mater hwn gyda Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru. Yr ydym yn ymwybodol o bryderon y mudiad hwnnw a mudiadau eraill am y gwasanaethau a ddarperir. Mae gwaith y bwrdd gwasanaethau lleol yn allweddol wrth edrych ar wasanaethau a’u cynllunio ar lefel leol, gan osgoi dyblygu diangen, a chanolbwyntio ar bwy all ddarparu’r gwasanaethau gorau, boed yn fudiadau’r trydydd sector ynteu’r sector gwirfoddol neu’r sector statudol. Mae’r hyn sy’n digwydd yn Rhondda Cynon Taf wedi gwneud argraff fawr arnaf. Trwy’r bwrdd gwasanaethau lleol, cefais gyfarfod â’r bobl y tu ôl i’r prosiect Kafta Brigade ar gam-drin domestig, fel y dywedais wrth ymateb i Irene James. Mae gan fudiadau Cymorth i Ferched ar draws y fwrdeistref rôl arweiniol. Fodd bynnag, mae hynny wedi gwneud eu herio i feddwl am y ffordd y maent yn darparu gwasanaethau, ac y maent yn ymwybodol bod angen hefyd iddynt fod yn fwy effeithlon o lawer ac i resymoli’r hyn y maent yn ei wneud.

For many third or voluntary sector organisations, there are real capacity issues. That is why I was pleased to see that the Charity Bank has set up its Cardiff office, or Wales office. It wants to develop a Welsh community bond, which not only provides extra funding but can also add management expertise and capacity enhancement. By taking a strategic view, but also by working with LSBs, I hope that we can address some of the concerns of the voluntary sector.

I nifer o fudiadau’r trydydd sector neu’r sector gwirfoddol, mae yna broblemau gwirioneddol o ran capasiti. Dyna pam yr oeddwn yn falch gweld bod Charity Bank wedi sefydlu ei swyddfa yng Nghaerdydd, neu swyddfa Cymru. Mae am ddatblygu bond cymunedol Cymreig, sydd nid yn unig yn darparu arian ychwanegol, ond hefyd yn gallu ychwanegu arbenigedd rheoli a gwella capasiti. Trwy gymryd safbwynt strategol, ond hefyd gan weithio gyda Byrddau Gwasanaethau Lleol hefyd, gobeithio y gallwn fynd i’r afael â rhai o bryderon y sector gwirfoddol.

The Foundation Phase

Cyfnod Sylfaen

Q1 Alun Cairns: Will the Minister make a statement on what assessments have been made regarding the roll-out of the foundation phase? OAQ(3)1078(CEL)

C1 Alun Cairns: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am yr asesiadau sydd wedi’u gwneud o ran cyflwyno’r cyfnod sylfaen? OAQ(3)1078(CEL)

Y Gweinidog dros Blant, Addysg, Dysgu Gydol Oes a Sgiliau (Jane Hutt): Mae ymarferwyr, gweithwyr proffesiynol a phartneriaid yn cytuno bod plant yn ffynnu dan y cyfnod sylfaen. Yr ydym wedi sicrhau cymhareb o 1:8 o athrawon i blant o dair i bump oed. Mae Estyn yn edrych ar effaith hyfforddiant y cyfnod sylfaen. Mae pecyn cymorth Estyn ar gyfer y cyfnod sylfaen yn nodi arfer da ledled Cymru. Bydd gwerthusiad llawn yn dechrau flwyddyn nesaf.

Alun Cairns: I am grateful for the Minister’s answer. The foundation phase received widespread support from every party in the Chamber. However, I think it fair to say that concerns are developing about its delivery, given that some significant academics have expressed 'major concerns’ about the transition of pupils moving on from the foundation phase, and the lack of planning in that respect. In addition, the teaching unions have expressed concern about the capacity to increase staffing levels to maintain the ratios as time goes on, particularly within this period. My question is specifically about the evaluations conducted to date of the success of the foundation phase. Is it not the case that, although it welcomes the advances that the foundation phase has made, Estyn has investigated the matter and has found that it has not taken us to the level that we should have reached, bearing in mind the pilot schemes and the plans and aspirations of the Welsh Assembly Government and the National Assembly at the outset? In summary, the foundation phase is not achieving your objectives.

Alun Cairns: Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am ateb y Gweinidog. Cafodd y cyfnod sylfaen gefnogaeth eang gan bob plaid yn y Siambr. Fodd bynnag, credaf ei bod yn deg dweud bod rhai pryderon yn codi ynghylch y gwaith o’i gyflwyno, o wybod bod rhai academyddion pwysig wedi mynegi’r hyn a alwant yn bryderon mawr ynghylch y broses bontio ar gyfer disgyblion wrth iddynt symud ymlaen o’r cyfnod sylfaen, a’r diffyg cynllunio yn y cyswllt hwnnw. Yn ogystal, mae undebau athrawon wedi mynegi pryder ynghylch y gallu i gynyddu lefelau staffio er mwyn cynnal y cymarebau wrth i amser fynd rhagddo, yn enwedig yn ystod y cyfnod hwn. Mae fy nghwestiwn yn ymwneud yn benodol â’r gwaith gwerthuso sydd wedi’i wneud hyd yma i fesur llwyddiant y cyfnod sylfaen. Onid yw’n wir fod Estyn, er ei fod yn croesawu’r cynnydd a wnaed gan y cyfnod sylfaen, wedi ymchwilio i’r mater ac wedi gweld nad yw’r cyfnod sylfaen wedi mynd â ni i’r lefel y dylem fod wedi’i chyrraedd, o gofio’r cynlluniau peilot, a chynlluniau a dyheadau Llywodraeth y Cynulliad a’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ar y dechrau? Yn fyr, nid yw’r cyfnod sylfaen yn cyflawni eich amcanion.

Jane Hutt: That is certainly not a question that I can answer in view of the comments that you claim have been made. Last week, I had a useful and constructive meeting with the foundation phase task and finish implementation group. We had Professor Iram Siraj-Blatchford, who is the expert from the University of London education department. All the unions there, and they were all positive about the roll-out of the foundation phase. It is important that we look to the evaluation of the roll-out, which starts next year. It will address the extent to which the intended outcomes of the foundation phase are being achieved. In addition, importantly, the training that has been undertaken has been backed by 11 guidance documents, which have been published to support the implementation of the foundation phase. I am sure that you will join me in congratulating our local education authorities on their delivery of the service, with the support of the Welsh Assembly Government, and the appointment of in excess of 3,000 classroom assistants, who have joined the foundation phase to deliver a pioneering and radical change to our early years education in Wales.

Jane Hutt: Yn sicr nid yw hwn yn gwestiwn y gallaf ei ateb o ystyried y sylwadau yr ydych yn honni eu gwneud. Yr wythnos diwethaf, cefais gyfarfod defnyddiol ac adeiladol gyda grŵp gweithredu gorchwyl a gorffen y cyfnod sylfaen. Yr oedd yr Athro Iram Siraj-Blatchford, yr arbenigwr o adran addysg Prifysgol Llundain, yn bresennol yn y cyfarfod. Yr oedd yr undebau i gyd yno, a phob un ohonynt yn gadarnhaol ynghylch y modd y caiff y cyfnod sylfaen ei gyflwyno. Mae’n bwysig inni edrych ar y gwerthusiad o waith cyflwyno’r cyfnod sylfaen, a fydd yn dechrau’r flwyddyn nesaf. Bydd y gwerthusiad yn ystyried i ba raddau y mae canlyniadau arfaethedig y cyfnod sylfaen yn cael eu cyflawni. Yn ogystal, ac yn bwysig, mae’r hyfforddiant yr ymgymerwyd ag ef wedi’i ategu gan 11 o ddogfennau cyfarwyddyd, sydd wedi’u cyhoeddi i gefnogi gwaith gweithredu’r cyfnod sylfaen. Yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunwch â mi i longyfarch ein hawdurdodau addysg lleol ar gyflwyno’r gwasanaeth, gyda chefnogaeth Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, ac ar benodi dros 3,000 o gynorthwywyr dosbarth, sydd wedi ymuno â’r cyfnod sylfaen i ddod â newid radical ac arloesol i’n darpariaeth addysg blynyddoedd cynnar yng Nghymru.  

Lesley Griffiths: Minister, I recently met local education officers and staff who are responsible for delivering the foundation phase in Wrexham. They hold a drop-in advice session once a week for teachers and classroom assistants who are responsible for delivering the foundation phase in the classroom. They have both an outside and an inside area, which they change on a weekly basis, in order to show how the scheme can be delivered imaginatively in a small area. They also offer ideas for subjects that can be covered with the children. They believe that it is the first drop-in advice centre of its kind in Wales. I was extremely impressed by the initiative and how it encourages people to come along to share best practice. Would you agree that this type of facility would be extremely beneficial across Wales?

Lesley Griffiths: Weinidog, yn ddiweddar cyfarfûm â staff a swyddogion awdurdodau addysg lleol, sy’n gyfrifol am gyflwyno’r cyfnod sylfaen yn Wrecsam. Unwaith yr wythnos byddant yn cynnal sesiwn gynghori mewn canolfan galw heibio ar gyfer athrawon a chynorthwywyr dosbarth sy’n gyfrifol am gyflwyno’r cyfnod sylfaen yn yr ystafell ddosbarth. Yn y ganolfan mae ganddynt fan dan do a man yn yr awyr agored  gaiff eu newid bob wythnos, er mwyn dangos sut y gall y cynllun gael ei gyflwyno’n ddychmygus mewn lle bach. Maent hefyd yn cynnig syniadau ar gyfer pynciau y gellir gweithio arnynt gyda’r plant. Credant mai hon yw’r ganolfan gynghori galw heibio gyntaf o’i bath yng Nghymru. Gwnaeth y fenter, a’r modd y mae’n annog pobl i ddod i rannu arfer gorau, gryn argraff arnaf. A fyddech yn cytuno y byddai’n eithriadol o fuddiol cael y math hwn o gyfleuster ym mhob rhan o Gymru?

Jane Hutt: Indeed. I was pleased to visit one setting of the foundation phase in Wrexham and to see its pioneering work. I would welcome the opportunity to look at the drop-in centre and at the sharing of good practice that is taking place in Wrexham.

Jane Hutt: Byddwn, yn wir. Yr oeddwn yn falch ymweld ag un lleoliad sy’n cyflwyno’r cyfnod sylfaen yn Wrecsam, a gweld ei waith arloesol. Byddwn yn croesawu’r cyfle i weld y ganolfan galw heibio, a’r gwaith rhannu arfer da sy’n digwydd yn Wrecsam.

During 2009, a series of 10 successful outdoor conferences were staged across Wales by the Department for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills. They were attended by almost 900 practitioners, teachers and classroom assistants. Estyn recently published a play and active learning toolkit, which identified examples—particularly in relation to outdoor learning, as is taking place in Wrexham, as you have just described—of schools, and indeed non-maintained settings, where children are flourishing under the foundation phase.

Bethan Jenkins: I welcome the foundation phase, which has been a very progressive initiative. However, I have heard concerns about whether there is adequate staffing for it. Many schools are resorting to employing part-time staff to cut costs, or are expecting staff to fulfil level 3 roles, while only advertising level 2 posts and paying staff as if they were at level 2. Can the Minister give assurances that adequate funding is being delivered in order to staff the foundation phase appropriately?

Bethan Jenkins: Yr wyf yn croesawu’r cyfnod sylfaen: mae wedi bod yn fenter flaengar iawn. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf wedi clywed pryderon a oes digon o staff ar gael i weithredu’r cynllun. Mae llawer o ysgolion wedi dechrau cyflogi staff rhan-amser i arbed costau, neu’n hysbysebu swyddi lefel 2 ac yn talu staff fel pe baent ar lefel 2, ond yn disgwyl iddynt gyflawni swyddogaethau lefel 3. A all y Gweinidog roi sicrwydd fod digon o gyllid yn cael ei ddarparu i staffio’r cyfnod sylfaen yn briodol?

Jane Hutt: We are wholly committed to the foundation phase and to its roll-out. We have allocated up to £170 million of funding for the scheme for the first three years, part of which is for the training, which is so important for the quality, the adult-pupil ratio and the delivery of the scheme. It is important that the 1:8 ratio is achieved as part of the roll-out to three to four-year-olds. On the classroom assistants’ level of skills and training, in a sample survey, which I reported to the implementation group last week, as well as to the unions, which warmly welcomed it, 75 per cent of those who have undertaken the training reach level 3, which is what we seek to achieve. I would also draw attention to the fact that we discussed last week that we are working on the national structure for classroom assistants and all school support staff as part of our 'One Wales’ agenda. That will take on board the important role of the classroom assistants in the delivery of the foundation phase.

Jane Hutt: Yr ydym wedi ymrwymo’n llwyr i’r cyfnod sylfaen a’r gwaith o’i gyflwyno. Yr ydym wedi clustnodi hyd at £170 miliwn o gyllid ar gyfer y cynllun am y tair blynedd cyntaf, y mae rhan ohono ar gyfer yr hyfforddiant. Mae hynny mor bwysig o safbwynt ansawdd, y gymhareb athrawon i blant, a gwaith cyflwyno’r cynllun. Mae’n bwysig cyflawni’r gymhareb o 1:8 wrth gyflwyno’r cynllun i blant tair i bedair oed. O ran lefel sgiliau a hyfforddiant cynorthwywyr dosbarth, mewn arolwg sampl yr adroddais amdano i’r grŵp gweithredu yr wythnos diwethaf, yn ogystal â’r undebau a’i croesawodd yn fawr, mae 75 y cant o’r rhai sydd wedi cael yr hyfforddiant yn cyrraedd lefel 3, sef yr hyn yr ydym yn ceisio’i gyflawni. Hoffwn dynnu sylw hefyd at y ffaith y buom yn ei thrafod yr wythnos diwethaf, sef ein bod yn gweithio ar y strwythur cenedlaethol ar gyfer cynorthwywyr dosbarth a’r holl staff cymorth sy’n gweithio mewn ysgolion, fel rhan o’n hagenda 'Cymru’n Un’. Bydd hynny’n ystyried rôl bwysig cynorthwywyr dosbarth wrth gyflwyno’r cyfnod sylfaen.

Students in the Business Sector

Myfyrwyr yn y Sector Busnes

Q2 Alun Davies: What is the Welsh Assembly Government doing to promote opportunities for students in the business sector? OAQ(3)1096(CEL)

The Deputy Minister for Skills (John Griffiths): The Welsh Assembly Government has a range of policies to provide business sector opportunities for students.

Alun Davies: We appreciate that the Government has prioritised skills and training as a response to the recession, as a means of providing the Welsh workforce with an opportunity to drive Wales out of the recession and to continue to develop our economy. If we are to deliver effective skills training for people, we need to do that in partnership with business and industry. We need to promote opportunities for students to learn in different businesses and industries, and to ensure that a partnership is a real partnership, allowing businesses and industries to design the sort of skills training that we are promoting and supporting. Can you explain to us, Minister, what actions the Government is taking to ensure that we have these structures and the funding in place to make our aspirations a reality?

2.20 p.m.

John Griffiths: Much of what we are putting in place for education and training is about that sort of employer engagement, understanding the needs of business and ensuring that providers deliver those skills and attitudes. We need to maximise investment in skills and training; we have a consultation paper out at the moment, 'Investing in Skills’, which is about shared investment—shared between Government, employers and learners. The sector skills councils are very much about understanding the skills needs of employers and ensuring that learning providers deliver those skills. Our Wales Employment and Skills Board and the UK commission are working to those ends.

John Griffiths: Mae llawer o’r hyn yr ydym yn ei roi ar waith ar gyfer addysg a hyfforddiant yn golygu ymwneud â chyflogwyr yn y modd hwnnw, deall anghenion busnes, a sicrhau bod darparwyr yn cyflwyno’r sgiliau a’r agweddau hynny. Mae angen inni sicrhau’r buddsoddiad mwyaf posibl mewn sgiliau a hyfforddiant; ar hyn o bryd yr ydym yn ymgynghori ar bapur dan y teitl 'Buddsoddi mewn Sgiliau’, sy’n ymwneud â buddsoddi ar y cyd—rhwng Llywodraeth, cyflogwyr a dysgwyr. Mae’r cynghorau sgiliau sector yn canolbwyntio i raddau helaeth iawn ar ddeall anghenion cyflogwyr o ran sgiliau, a sicrhau bod darparwyr dysgu yn cyflenwi’r sgiliau hynny. Mae Bwrdd Cyflogaeth a Sgiliau Cymru a chomisiwn y DU wrthi’n gweithio i’r perwyl hwnnw.

'Skills That Work for Wales’, our overarching strategy, encompasses all of this and much more. We know that, if we can build effectively these partnerships with business, we will be in a much better place in terms of our training and education systems and our economy. No matter what it is—guaranteed interviews, extended work experience, education-business partnerships in the classroom, in colleges and universities, engagement with employers around our efforts to tackle economic inactivity, working with the Department for Work and Pensions—and whatever is involved, employers are at centre stage. We have to understand the needs of business and deliver for them.

Mae ein strategaeth drosfwaol, 'Sgiliau sy’n Gweithio i Gymru’, yn ymdrin â hyn i gyd a llawer mwy. Gwyddom y byddwn mewn lle llawer gwell o safbwynt ein systemau hyfforddiant ac addysg a’n heconomi os gallwn feithrin y partneriaethau hyn gyda busnes yn effeithiol. Ni waeth beth ydyw—sicrwydd o gyfweliadau, cyfnodau estynedig o brofiad gwaith, partneriaethau addysg-busnes yn yr ystafell ddosbarth, mewn colegau a phrifysgolion, ymwneud â chyflogwyr ynghylch ein hymdrechion i fynd i’r afael ag anweithgarwch economaidd, gweithio gyda’r Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau—ac ni waeth beth sydd ynghlwm wrth hynny, canolbwyntir ar gyflogwyr. Rhaid inni ddeall anghenion busnes a diwallu’r anghenion hynny.

Paul Davies: It is vital that we ensure that students can access opportunities in the business sector. One way of doing this is through apprenticeship schemes. It is encouraging that the draft budget has assigned £30 million to enable an extension of the additional places on SkillBuild programmes and on pathways to apprenticeships. However, it is vital that students are aware that such schemes exist to assist them in fully recognising their potential. What collaboration is the Assembly Government undertaking with education providers to ensure that these schemes are well promoted in order to maximise their take-up?

Paul Davies: Mae’n hanfodol inni sicrhau bod myfyrwyr yn gallu cael cyfleoedd yn y sector busnes. Mae cynlluniau prentisiaeth yn un ffordd o wneud hynny. Mae’n galonogol fod y gyllideb ddrafft wedi clustnodi £30 miliwn i ehangu’r gallu i gynnig mwy o leoedd ar raglenni Adeiladu Sgiliau a llwybrau at brentisiaethau. Fodd bynnag, mae’n hollbwysig i fyfyrwyr wybod am y cynlluniau hyn i’w helpu i adnabod eu potensial yn llawn. Sut mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn cydweithio â darparwyr addysg i sicrhau bod y cynlluniau hyn yn cael eu hyrwyddo’n dda er mwyn i’r nifer mwyaf posibl o bobl ifanc yn manteisio arnynt?

John Griffiths: We have engaged in a number of promotional and marketing activities in partnership with the learning providers. Careers Wales, our learning coaches, and our general education providers have the task of ensuring that all of our young people are aware of these opportunities and we will continue to do that.

We will shortly be working with the UK Government on a major promotional activity around apprenticeship opportunities. As you rightly said, Paul, we have invested a great deal of resource in ensuring that, during the recession, we continue to take forward apprenticeships and ensure that everyone is aware of the advantages and the benefits that they can bring. The pathways to apprenticeships and young recruits programmes are major aspects of our response to the recession. We will ensure that all of our young people, and people of all ages, are aware of these schemes and apprenticeship opportunities.

Cyn hir, byddwn yn gweithio gyda Llywodraeth y DU ar ymgyrch hyrwyddo fawr yn ymwneud â chyfleoedd i ddilyn prentisiaethau. Fel yr oeddech yn ei ddweud, Paul, yr ydym wedi buddsoddi llawer o adnoddau i sicrhau ein bod, yn ystod y dirwasgiad, yn parhau i symud ymlaen â phrentisiaethau ac i sicrhau bod pawb yn ymwybodol o’r manteision a’r buddion y gallant eu cynnig. Mae’r rhaglenni llwybrau at brentisiaethau a recriwtiaid newydd yn elfennau pwysig yn ein hymateb i’r dirwasgiad. Byddwn yn sicrhau bod ein pobl ifanc i gyd, a phobl o bob oed, yn gwybod am y cynlluniau hyn a chyfleoedd i ddilyn prentisiaethau.

Paul Davies: I am grateful for that answer. One of the recommendations in the Enterprise and Learning Committee’s report on the economic contribution of higher education in Wales is that the Welsh Assembly Government should consider involving the top 10 corporations in Wales in a mentoring scheme for new graduates. Will the Deputy Minister confirm whether he thinks that this is a good idea? If so, what consideration has the Assembly Government given to such a scheme?

John Griffiths: Obviously, Paul, we take the recommendations and views of the Assembly’s committees very seriously indeed and we will give careful consideration to that proposal. We already have GO Wales in place as an important bridge between graduates and firms in Wales to provide the opportunities for graduates to have work placements and work experience, for example, and for companies—particularly small and medium-sized enterprises—to take advantage of what graduate placements can bring. We certainly need to look at how we can extend and build on that, and that is what we will do.

John Griffiths: Yn amlwg, Paul, yr ydym yn cymryd argymhellion a safbwyntiau pwyllgorau’r Cynulliad yn wirioneddol o ddifrif, a byddwn yn ystyried y cynnig hwnnw’n ofalus. Mae gennym eisoes gynllun GO Wales, sy’n ddolen gyswllt bwysig rhwng graddedigion a chwmnïau yng Nghymru ac sy’n darparu cyfleoedd i raddedigion ymgymryd â lleoliadau a phrofiad gwaith, er enghraifft, a chyfleoedd i gwmnïau—yn enwedig mentrau bach a chanolig eu maint—fanteisio ar yr hyn sydd gan leoliadau i raddedigion i’w gynnig. Yn bendant, mae angen inni edrych ar y modd y gallwn ymestyn hynny ac adeiladu arno, a byddwn yn gwneud hynny.

School Attendance

Presenoldeb mewn Ysgolion

Q3 Mohammad Asghar: Will the Minister make a statement on school attendance? OAQ(3)1112(CEL)

Jane Hutt: The Welsh Assembly Government has made significant improvements to attendance levels in primary and secondary schools. We shall be building on that improvement through the behaviour and attendance action plan.

Mohammad Asghar: The UK Government’s obsession with using the stick rather than the carrot to deal with truancy is well-documented. I am pleased that, in Wales, we have tended to focus our efforts on early intervention and encouraging parents. However, there have been incidents of parents being fined or even imprisoned. Are you able to tell us how many parents in Wales have been fined or imprisoned due to their child’s truancy? Can you inform us of the progress being made in combating truancy since the national behaviour and attendance review of 2008?

Mohammad Asghar: Gŵyr pawb am obsesiwn Llywodraeth y DU â defnyddio cosb yn hytrach na chymhelliant i ymdrin â thriwantiaeth. Yr wyf yn falch ein bod ni yng Nghymru wedi tueddu i ganolbwyntio ein hymdrechion ar ymyrryd yn gynnar a rhoi anogaeth i rieni. Fodd bynnag, cafwyd achosion lle mae rhieni wedi eu dirwyo, neu eu carcharu hyd yn oed. A allwch ddweud wrthym faint o rieni yng Nghymru sydd wedi eu dirwyo neu eu carcharu oherwydd triwantiaeth eu plentyn? A allwch ddweud wrthym pa gynnydd sy’n cael ei wneud i atal  triwantiaeth ers yr adolygiad cenedlaethol o ymddygiad a phresenoldeb yn 2008?

Jane Hutt: Attendance in secondary schools is currently at its highest level in over 10 years, and attendance levels in primary schools are the highest that they have ever been since we started collecting the data in 2002-03. Therefore, we are going in the right direction. We set out our approach to improving attendance in the behaviour and attendance action plan, as I described in my earlier reply. That was in our response to Ken Reid’s review of national behaviour and attendance. We do not collect national figures on the number of successful prosecutions for non-attendance by local authorities. Of course, that should be very much the last resort. I expect local authorities to do all that they can to avoid that course of action, and certainly only after considering the particular circumstances of the child and family. We have made great progress in improving the quality, access and use of attendance data in Wales by investing £6 million in electronic attendance management systems in schools.

Jane Hutt: Ar hyn o bryd, mae presenoldeb mewn ysgolion uwchradd yn uwch nag a fu ers dros 10 mlynedd, a phresenoldeb mewn ysgolion cynradd yn uwch nag a fu erioed ers inni ddechrau casglu’r data yn 2002-3. Felly, yr ydym yn symud i’r cyfeiriad iawn. Yr oedd y cynllun gweithredu ar ymddygiad a phresenoldeb yn egluro ein dull gweithredu ar wella presenoldeb, fel y dywedais yn fy ymateb cynharach. Yr oedd hynny yn ein hymateb i adolygiad cenedlaethol Ken Reid o ymddygiad a phresenoldeb. Nid ydym yn casglu ffigurau cenedlaethol am y nifer sy’n cael eu herlyn yn llwyddiannus gan awdurdodau lleol am achosion o driwantiaeth. Wrth gwrs, dim ond pan fydd popeth arall wedi methu y dylid cymryd camau cyfreithiol. Disgwyliaf i awdurdodau lleol wneud popeth posibl i osgoi cymryd camau cyfreithiol, ac yn sicr ni ddylent wneud hynny heb ystyried amgylchiadau penodol y plentyn a’r teulu yn gyntaf. Yr ydym wedi gwneud cynnydd mawr i wella ansawdd data ynghylch presenoldeb yng Nghymru, cael mynediad iddynt a’u defnyddio, trwy fuddsoddi £6 miliwn mewn systemau electronig i reoli presenoldeb mewn ysgolion.

Jenny Randerson: Minister, the statistics on the education maintenance allowance came out today. They show that there are 5,500 students who have still not received their EMA; that is more than one in six of those who applied. Last year, you assured us that the shambles would not be repeated this year, and although I accept that the figures are slightly better, this is still not the picture that you painted for us in committee last year, when we discussed the matter with you. What has gone wrong this year?

Jenny Randerson: Weinidog, cyhoeddwyd yr ystadegau ar y lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg heddiw. Maent yn dangos bod 5,500 o fyfyrwyr yn dal heb gael eu lwfans; mae hynny’n fwy nag un o bob chwech o’r rhai a wnaeth gais amdano. Y llynedd, rhoesoch sicrwydd inni na fyddai’r un annibendod yn cael ei ailadrodd eleni, ac er fy mod yn derbyn bod y ffigurau ychydig yn well, nid dyma’r sefyllfa a ddisgrifiwyd gennych mewn pwyllgor y llynedd pan fuom yn trafod y mater gyda chi. Beth sydd wedi mynd o’i le eleni?

Jane Hutt: I have not had a chance to look at those statistics. I met with the Student Loans Company only a fortnight ago and had a full report from it on how it had increased the efficiency of the organisation’s important delivery of education maintenance allowances. I will be looking into this because it gave assurances that we would not be in the same position as last year. As you know, the Assembly committee’s input into this matter was also useful. We have taken on board the consultation that we undertook to streamline the application and delivery process.

Jane Hutt: Nid wyf wedi cael cyfle i edrych ar yr ystadegau hynny. Cefais gyfarfod gyda Chwmni Benthyciadau Myfyrwyr prin bythefnos yn ôl, a chefais adroddiad llawn gan y cwmni am y ffordd yr oedd wedi gwella effeithlonrwydd y gwaith pwysig o ddarparu lwfansau cynhaliaeth addysg. Byddaf yn ymchwilio i’r mater hwn, oherwydd cefais sicrwydd gan y cwmni na fyddem yn yr un sefyllfa â’r llynedd. Fel y gwyddoch, yr oedd cyfraniad pwyllgor y Cynulliad i’r mater hwn yn ddefnyddiol hefyd. Yr ydym wedi ystyried yr ymgynghori a fu i symleiddio’r broses o wneud ceisiadau a chael y lwfansau.

Jenny Randerson: I am pleased to hear that you have done some streamlining. Can you tell us exactly how you have improved and simplified the system? Last year, it was obvious to us in the committee that the system was far too bureaucratic, complex and unnecessarily difficult for young people. It went well beyond the requirements for justifiable validation.

Jenny Randerson: Yr wyf yn falch clywed eich bod wedi symleiddio’r broses rywfaint. A allwch ddweud wrthym sut yn union yr ydych wedi gwella a symleiddio’r system? Y llynedd, yr oedd yn amlwg i ni yn y pwyllgor fod y system yn rhy gymhleth a biwrocrataidd o lawer ac yn ddiangen o anodd i bobl ifanc. Yr oedd yn mynd ymhell y tu hwnt i’r gofynion ar gyfer dilysu y gellir ei gyfiawnhau.

Jane Hutt: Some of the steps that, for example, required young people to provide birth certificates and passports were dealt with. Obviously, we have to ensure the authenticity of a young person’s application. However, it is clear that the lessons learnt from last year were taken on board by the Student Loans Company, and I will be expecting a report, following the statistics published today, to ensure that progress is made. There has been a welcome increase in the number of learners who are undertaking post-16 education. We need to recognise that this will create a pressure point on the system.

Jeff Cuthbert: Minister, I am sure that you will agree with me that you cannot divorce the issue of attendance and truancy from the enjoyment of the learning experience. Do you agree that one of the key motivations and major benefits of the initiatives that we have introduced, such as the foundation phase, the 14-19 pathways, and the Welsh baccalaureate is to give that greater, more enjoyable experience of learning to pupils, and that that will show itself, in time, through attendance figures? We will provide that stimulation to learners, which is something that was certainly denied to learners in the Tory years.

2.30 p.m.

Jane Hutt: I opened the remodelled Church in Wales primary school in Magor this morning and saw the enjoyment, fulfilment and response from the teachers, as well as the pupils, particularly the three to five-year-olds in terms of the foundation phase. Our £2.2 million investment in that school, the opening of which we celebrated today, demonstrates our investment in education, in terms of capital and revenue, and highlights our pioneering new schemes, which are looked upon with envy from other parts of the world, in terms of the foundation phase, the Welsh baccalaureate and the 14-19 learning pathways.

Nick Bourne: The other end of the scale to the opening of schools is the issue of school closure, which focuses, to some extent, on school attendance, or perhaps more broadly on school rolls, and on whether the national curriculum is being developed. Will the Minister confirm that what local authorities should be looking at, when looking at surplus school places and school closures, is whether the national curriculum is being developed and delivered in a particular school? Will she also comment on the fact that some school closures are going forward and being presented in Gwynedd—I appreciate that she cannot speak to particular instances, because they may come to her as Minister—where it has been suggested that the local authority is singling the schools out for closure because of the land value in those communities, such as Aberdyfi and Abersoch? I appreciate that the Minister cannot speak specifically about those particular closures, but will she more broadly say that that should not be a consideration for local authorities in looking at school closures?

Nick Bourne: Wrth sôn am agor ysgolion, y pegwn arall yw mater cau ysgolion, sy’n canolbwyntio i ryw raddau ar bresenoldeb, neu’n fwy cyffredinol efallai ar nifer y disgyblion, ac a yw’r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol yn cael ei ddatblygu. A wnaiff y Gweinidog gadarnhau mai’r hyn y dylai awdurdodau lleol fod yn edrych arno, wrth ystyried lleoedd gwag mewn ysgolion a chau ysgolion, yw’r cwestiwn a yw’r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol yn cael ei ddatblygu a’i gyflwyno mewn ysgol benodol? A wnaiff hi wneud sylw hefyd am y ffaith fod cynigion i gau rhai ysgolion yn cael eu cyflwyno a’u symud yn eu blaen yng Ngwynedd—sylweddolaf na all hi gynnig sylwadau ar achosion penodol, oherwydd gallent ddod ati fel Gweinidog—lle awgrymwyd bod yr awdurdod lleol yn dewis ysgolion penodol i’w cau oherwydd gwerth y tir yn y cymunedau hynny, megis Aberdyfi ac Aber-soch? Sylweddolaf na all y Gweinidog drafod yr achosion hynny’n benodol, ond a wnaiff hi ddatgan yn fwy cyffredinol na ddylai hynny fod yn ystyriaeth i awdurdodau lleol wrth edrych ar gau ysgolion?

The Presiding Officer: Order. I am sure that the Minister will not want to respond on those issues, which, as the leader of the opposition knows, directly affect my constituency. He has made allegations against the local authority.

Nick Bourne: I did not. I said that I had had representations in relation to the closures.

Nick Bourne: Naddo. Dywedais fod sylwadau wedi’u cyflwyno imi ynghylch cau ysgolion.

Jane Hutt: I will respond on a broader, national policy level about the need for local authorities to address school reorganisation. We have consulted fully on the guidance on school reorganisation, and I am grateful to the committee for its input. Local authorities must acknowledge that they need to bring forward reviews of schools, which lead to change, and we are assisting them, not only in strengthening the guidance, but also by providing funding through the twenty-first century schools investment programme. The transitional funding arrangements that I have already implemented have resulted in over £200 million of investment and that assists local authorities in planning the changes that they need to address. It is important to remember, in terms of the figures for 2008, that there were 49,344 primary and 35,824 secondary net surplus places across Wales.

Jane Hutt: Yr wyf am ymateb ar lefel ehangach, ar lefel polisi cenedlaethol ar yr angen i awdurdodau lleol roi sylw i ad-drefnu ysgolion. Yr ydym wedi ymgynghori’n llawn am y canllawiau ar ad-drefnu ysgolion, ac yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r pwyllgor am ei gyfraniad. Rhaid i awdurdodau lleol gydnabod bod angen iddynt gyflwyno adolygiadau o ysgolion, a fydd yn arwain at newid, ac yr ydym yn eu cynorthwyo nid yn unig trwy gryfhau’r canllawiau, ond hefyd trwy ddarparu cyllid trwy raglen fuddsoddi ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Mae’r trefniadau cyllido trosiannol yr wyf eisoes wedi’u rhoi ar waith wedi arwain at fuddsoddi dros £200 miliwn, sy’n cynorthwyo awdurdodau lleol i gynllunio’r newidiadau y mae angen iddynt fynd i’r afael â hwy. Mae’n bwysig cofio, o ran y ffigurau ar gyfer 2008, fod cyfanswm net o 49,344 o leoedd gwag mewn ysgolion cynradd a 35,824 o leoedd gwag mewn ysgolion uwchradd ledled Cymru.

Y Llywydd: Tynnwyd cwestiwn 4, OAQ(3)1120(CEL), yn ol.

Improving Educational Opportunities

Gwella Cyfleoedd Addysgol

Q5 Brynle Williams: Will the Minister make a statement on the Welsh Assembly Government’s priorities for improving educational opportunities in north Wales? OAQ(3)1114(CEL)

C5 Brynle Williams: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am flaenoriaethau Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ar gyfer gwella cyfleoedd addysgol yn y gogledd? OAQ(3)1114(CEL)

Jane Hutt: Mae cytundeb 'Cymru’n Un’, 'Cymru: Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu’ a chynlluniau gweithredu megis 'Sgiliau Sy’n Gweithio i Gymru’ yn cynnwys blaenoriaethau Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ar gyfer gwella cyfleoedd addysgol. Bydd rhoi’r blaenoriaethau hyn ar waith o fudd i ddysgwyr o bob oed yn y gogledd.

Brynle Williams: Thank you for that answer, Minister. I recently had the opportunity of visiting Isallt, a supported living scheme for young people who are homeless in the Conwy area. I hope that you will agree that projects such as this, which allow young people to continue their education, gain skills and move into employment, play an important role in mitigating the damage of social breakdown. Can you provide an assurance that, in light of your ministerial colleague’s proposed budget cuts, you will safeguard these services, without which access to education would be near impossible for these homeless young people? It is worth seeing how they are gaining confidence and moving into the adult world.

Brynle Williams: Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Yn ddiweddar, cefais gyfle i ymweld ag Isallt, cynllun llety cymorth i bobl ifanc ddigartref yn ardal Conwy. Gobeithio y cytunwch fod prosiectau fel hyn, sy’n caniatáu i bobl ifanc barhau eu haddysg, meithrin sgiliau a symud ymlaen i fyd gwaith, yn bwysig wrth lliniaru effaith niweidiol cymdeithas yn chwalu. A allwch roi sicrwydd, yng ngoleuni toriadau arfaethedig eich cyd-weinidog i’r gyllideb, y byddwch yn diogelu’r gwasanaethau hyn, oherwydd hebddynt byddai bron yn amhosibl i’r bobl ifanc ddigartref hyn allu cael addysg? Mae’n werth gweld sut maent yn magu hyder ac yn symud ymlaen i fyw fel oedolion.

Jane Hutt: Thank you for that thoughtful question, Brynle. The pioneering curriculum changes that we are putting in place have not only been safeguarded in the draft budget, but enhanced. We have safeguarded the additional investment that is going into the 14-19 learning pathways, for example, the roll out of the Welsh baccalaureate, and the implementation of the foundation phase. In the draft budget, we have safeguarded the revised skills curriculum across the board and we have enhanced it. It is important therefore that we also safeguard and enhance our support, which we are doing through the use of European funding, particularly for those young people who may have been disadvantaged earlier in their lives, and even in pre-school, in terms of the opportunities available to them. We are addressing that through Flying Start. This Government and its budget are about social justice and tackling inequality and we are making sure that this is an inclusive budget for those young people whom you represent.

Jane Hutt: Diolch am eich cwestiwn ystyriol, Brynle. Mae’r newidiadau arloesol yn y cwricwlwm yr ydym yn eu cyflwyno nid yn unig wedi eu diogelu yn y gyllideb ddrafft, ond wedi eu gwella. Yr ydym wedi diogelu’r buddsoddiad ychwanegol sy’n cael ei wneud yn y llwybrau dysgu 14-19, er enghraifft, cyflwyno bagloriaeth Cymru a gweithredu’r cyfnod sylfaen. Yn y gyllideb ddrafft, yr ydym wedi diogelu’r cwricwlwm sgiliau diwygiedig yn gyffredinol ac wedi ei wella. Mae’n bwysig, felly, inni hefyd ddiogelu a gwella’r cymorth yr ydym yn ei ddarparu, a gwnawn hynny trwy ddefnyddio arian o Ewrop, yn enwedig ar gyfer y bobl ifanc hynny sydd, efallai, wedi bod dan anfantais yn gynharach yn eu bywydau, a hyd yn oed cyn mynd i’r ysgol, o ran y cyfleoedd sydd ar gael iddynt. Yr ydym yn mynd i’r afael â hyn trwy’r cynllun Dechrau’n Deg. Mae’r Llywodraeth hon a’i chyllideb yn canolbwyntio ar gyfiawnder cymdeithasol ac ar fynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldeb, ac yr ydym yn sicrhau bod hon yn gyllideb gynhwysol ar gyfer y bobl ifanc hynny yr ydych yn eu cynrychioli.

Janet Ryder: Cross-border working between local authorities in order to produce the best educational outcome for students has always been an issue close to your heart. I am sure that you are therefore aware of the situation that is developing between Wrexham and Denbighshire at the moment. For many years, parents have exercised their right to choose to use a school in Denbighshire that offers secondary education and now, due to reasons associated with transport, Wrexham is altering the funding available. I know that transport does not necessarily come under your remit, but the exercise of the parental right to choose a school does. This could have a damaging effect on the area, because we are now getting schools on the English side of the border advertising to parents in the area and offering free transport to schools in England. If parents take that option, those children will miss out on all the educational advantages that you have just outlined and the many steps forward that we are making in relation to schools and curricula in Wales. This could have a far-reaching impact and I would like you to look into this issue to ensure that Denbighshire and Wrexham county borough councils work together to ensure that parents can exercise their parental choice and that children get the best possible educational outcome.

Jane Hutt: Although school transport does not fall within my portfolio, as the Minister for education, I would say that local education authorities are expected to ensure that all children have access to a place at a suitable school within a reasonable distance of their home. That is my expectation and I am keen to see all children who live in Wales benefit from an education that is based in Wales. It is outstanding in terms of its quality and the offer, as you know, and it also gives due attention to our unique cultural and linguistic heritage. I hope that this issue will be addressed and resolved by the local authorities.

Jane Hutt: Er nad yw cludiant ysgol yn rhan o’m portffolio i, fel y Gweinidog dros Addysg, byddwn yn dweud bod disgwyl i awdurdodau addysg lleol sicrhau bod pob plentyn yn gallu cael lle mewn ysgol addas o fewn pellter rhesymol i’w gartref. Dyna yw fy nisgwyliad, ac yr wyf yn awyddus i sicrhau bod pob plentyn sy’n byw yng Nghymru yn elwa o addysg a ddarperir yng Nghymru. Fel y gwyddoch, mae’r addysg honno o’r radd flaenaf o ran ei hansawdd a’r hyn sydd ganddi i’w gynnig, ac y mae’n rhoi sylw dyledus hefyd i’n treftadaeth ieithyddol a diwylliannol unigryw. Gobeithio y bydd y mater hwn yn cael sylw gan yr awdurdodau lleol a’i ddatrys ganddynt.

The Young Person’s Guarantee

Gwarant Pobl Ifanc

Q6 Val Lloyd: Will the Minister make a statement on what the Welsh Assembly Government is doing to deliver the young person’s guarantee in Wales? OAQ(3)1110(CEL)

John Griffiths: The young person’s guarantee will be fully operational in Wales from January 2010. We have allocated an additional £3.8 million this year to support training delivery, providing more than 900 work-focused and 1,450 pre-employment training places. We work closely with the Department for Work and Pensions on delivering the Future Jobs fund element, with 4,000 jobs in the pipeline.

John Griffiths: Bydd y gwarant pobl ifanc yn gwbl weithredol yng Nghymru o fis Ionawr 2010 ymlaen. Yr ydym wedi clustnodi £3.8 miliwn ychwanegol eleni i gefnogi cyflwyno hyfforddiant, gan ddarparu dros 900 o leoedd hyfforddi sy’n canolbwyntio ar waith a 1,450 o leoedd hyfforddi cyn cyflogaeth. Yr ydym yn gweithio’n agos gyda’r Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau ar ddarparu’r elfen yn ymwneud â chronfa Swyddi’r Dyfodol, ac y mae 4,000 o swyddi yn yr arfaeth.

Val Lloyd: I am pleased to be taking part in the launch of the Swansea guarantee next week. Minister, engaging with young people who are at risk of being not in employment, education or training continues to be a challenge. Recent data show that the proportion of 16 to 18-year-olds who are NEET in Swansea is very high compared to national figures. What else is being done to engage those young people who are most at risk of becoming NEET and to strongly tackle the culture of failure that is stopping many from achieving their potential?

Val Lloyd: Yr wyf yn falch y byddaf yn cymryd rhan yn y digwyddiad i lansio gwarant Abertawe yr wythnos nesaf. Weinidog, mae ymwneud â phobl ifanc y mae perygl na fyddant mewn addysg, cyflogaeth na hyfforddiant yn dal yn her. Mae data diweddar yn dangos bod cyfran y bobl ifanc 16 i 18 oed yn Abertawe nad ydynt mewn addysg, cyflogaeth na hyfforddiant yn uchel iawn o’u cymharu â ffigurau cenedlaethol. Beth arall sy’n cael ei wneud i ymwneud â’r bobl ifanc hynny sydd fwyaf tebygol o fod yn y grŵp hwn, ac i fynd i’r afael yn rymus â’r diwylliant o fethiant sy’n eu hatal rhag cyflawni eu potensial?

John Griffiths: I think that those not in education, employment or training pose a huge challenge for the Government and all of the partner organisations that help us to address the barriers and issues that many of them face. We have our NEET strategy and action plan in place to ensure that we achieve a major step forward in the delivery of services for these young people.

John Griffiths: Yr wyf yn credu bod y rheini nad ydynt mewn addysg, cyflogaeth na hyfforddiant yn her enfawr i’r Llywodraeth a’r holl sefydliadau sy’n bartneriaid ac sy’n ein helpu i fynd i’r afael â’r rhwystrau a’r problemau sy’n wynebu nifer ohonynt. Mae gennym strategaeth a chynllun gweithredu ar waith ar gyfer pobl ifanc nad ydynt mewn addysg, cyflogaeth na hyfforddiant, er mwyn sicrhau ein bod yn cymryd cam mawr ymlaen wrth ddarparu gwasanaethau i’r bobl ifanc hyn.

2.40 p.m.

The agenda is at the very heart of the Welsh Assembly Government’s social justice priorities, so we have the determination to ensure that we grapple with these issues effectively. Much of what is going on assists us and can be part of those efforts. Just today, for example, we heard of further successful Welsh bids to the Future Jobs fund to deliver for 18 to 24-year-olds in long-term unemployment and, indeed, to others as well.

Mae’r agenda yn gwbl ganolog i flaenoriaethau Llywodraeth y Cynulliad o ran cyfiawnder cymdeithasol. Felly, yr ydym yn benderfynol o sicrhau ein bod yn mynd i’r afael â’r problemau hyn yn effeithiol. Mae llawer o’r hyn sy’n digwydd o gymorth inni, a gall fod yn rhan o’r ymdrechion hynny. Yr ydym newydd glywed heddiw, er enghraifft, am fwy o geisiadau llwyddiannus o Gymru i gronfa Swyddi’r Dyfodol, i ddarparu ar gyfer pobl ifanc 18 i 24 oed sydd wedi bod yn ddi-waith am gyfnod hir ac, yn wir, ar gyfer pobl eraill hefyd.

You mentioned the Swansea guarantee, and that is typical of the sort of partnership, Val, that we are trying to build throughout Wales, bringing together local authorities, schools, colleges, careers services, and work-based learning providers to ensure a coherent, joined-up approach that delivers added value and avoids duplication. That is the approach that we take right across Wales in our NEET strategy and action plan.

Soniech am warant Abertawe, sy’n nodweddiadol, Val, o’r math o bartneriaeth yr ydym yn ceisio’i chreu ym mhob rhan o Gymru, gan dynnu ynghyd awdurdodau lleol, ysgolion, colegau, gwasanaethau gyrfaoedd a darparwyr dysgu sy’n seiliedig ar waith i sicrhau dull gweithredu cydlynol a chydgysylltiedig sy’n ychwanegu gwerth ac yn osgoi dyblygu gwaith. Dyna’r dull gweithredu yr ydym yn ei ddefnyddio ar draws Cymru gyfan yn ein strategaeth a’n cynllun gweithredu ar gyfer pobl ifanc nad ydynt mewn addysg, cyflogaeth na hyfforddiant.

The Presiding Officer: I call Mark Isherwood.

Mark Isherwood: Excuse me; I have got my questions mixed up. Is this question 6, Presiding Officer?

The Presiding Officer: Yes. You requested a supplementary question to question 6.

Mark Isherwood: Thank you.

The young person’s guarantee is targeted at 18 to 24-year-olds who are coming to the end of the12-month stage of their claim for jobseekers allowance. The claimant count in this group has risen by 82 per cent in Wales over the last year, which means that the level of those covered by that horrible term, NEET—young people who are not in education, employment or training—is higher in Wales than anywhere else in the United Kingdom. How do you respond to a concern that so many are reaching the end of their 12-month period, because of the failure of earlier interventions? The suggestion put to me by benefit advisers is that, rather than providing the young people with what are often three-week courses, based in somewhere like Manchester for those in north Wales, without transport costs provided, and with the courses often being chosen for the young people by the authorities, the young people could identify courses and training opportunities for themselves and be given support and possibly even qualify for loan schemes of the type that might be provided to people who are in higher education.

John Griffiths: We always try to work towards a system that is more effective in addressing learners’ individual needs. For those of our young people who most need assistance and support in taking up education, training or, indeed, job opportunities, we have put apprenticeships at the forefront of our response to the recession through pathways to apprenticeships. Indeed, we have the young recruit scheme. We also have our young person’s guarantee, which gives us greater statutory responsibility to provide training and education places for 16 to 18-year-olds, and we work with the colleges and work-based learning providers to that end.

John Griffiths: Yr ydym bob amser yn ceisio gweithio tuag at system sy’n mynd i’r afael yn fwy effeithiol ag anghenion unigol dysgwyr. I’r bobl ifanc hynny y mae arnynt angen cymorth a chefnogaeth fwyaf i fanteisio ar addysg, hyfforddiant, neu gyfleoedd gwaith hyd yn oed, yr ydym wedi rhoi lle blaenllaw i brentisiaethau yn ein hymateb i’r dirwasgiad, trwy’r cynllun llwybrau at brentisiaethau. Yn wir, mae gennym y cynllun recriwtiaid newydd hefyd ynghyd â’r gwarant pobl ifanc, sy’n rhoi mwy o gyfrifoldeb statudol arnom i ddarparu lleoedd hyfforddiant ac addysg i bobl 16 i 18 oed, ac yr ydym yn gweithio gyda’r colegau a’r darparwyr dysgu’n seiliedig ar waith i’r perwyl hwnnw.

SkillBuild is a major part of that work-based learning effort for unemployed youngsters, and we are trialling a new approach to SkillBuild, because we want to improve the quality of provision, and that provision is central to providing opportunities for our most disadvantaged young people.

Mae Adeiladu Sgiliau yn rhan fawr o’r ymdrech honno i ddarparu cyfleoedd dysgu’n seiliedig ar waith i bobl ifanc ddi-waith, ac yr ydym yn treialu dull newydd o weithredu Adeiladu Sgiliau am ein bod yn awyddus i wella ansawdd y ddarpariaeth, ac y mae’r ddarpariaeth honno’n ganolog i gynnig cyfleoedd i’n pobl ifanc fwyaf difreintiedig.

A lot is going on, Mark. We have a major challenge in the global recession, but we know that the UK Government and the Welsh Assembly Government have made a tremendous commitment to young people and people of all ages not to stand by and let market forces rip, as happened in the past under other Governments, but to do absolutely everything that we can to shore up public spending and ensure that our young people are protected from the worst effects of this global recession.

Mae llawer yn digwydd, Mark. Mae’r dirwasgiad byd-eang yn her enfawr inni, ond gwyddom fod Llywodraeth y DU a Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi gwneud addewid mawr i bobl ifanc a phobl o bob oed, sef na fyddwn yn sefyll o’r neilltu ac yn gadael i rymoedd y farchnad fynd rhagddynt, fel sydd wedi digwydd yn y gorffennol dan Lywodraethau eraill, ond y byddwn yn gwneud popeth posibl i gynnal gwariant cyhoeddus a sicrhau bod ein pobl ifanc yn cael eu hamddiffyn rhag effeithiau gwaethaf y dirwasgiad byd-eang hwn.

Helen Mary Jones: I welcome much of what you have said in response to earlier speakers about the need to ensure that we have provision available for the most vulnerable and the hardest to reach. I am sure that you will agree with me that work-based training is often the right kind of training for those whose experience of formal education may have been unfortunate and who may therefore not be inclined to go back into it.

Helen Mary Jones: Yr wyf yn croesawu llawer o’r hyn yr ydych wedi’i ddweud wrth ymateb i siaradwyr blaenorol fod angen sicrhau bod gennym ddarpariaeth ar gyfer y bobl sydd fwyaf agored i niwed ac sydd fwyaf anodd eu cyrraedd. Yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunwch â mi mai hyfforddiant yn seiliedig ar waith yn aml yw’r math cywir o hyfforddiant i’r rheini sydd, efallai, wedi cael profiad anffodus o addysg ffurfiol ac sydd efallai’n gyndyn, felly, o ddychwelyd iddi.

You will also be aware that your department is pressing work-based training organisations to work collaboratively, and no-one would disagree with that. However, it is looking to reduce the numbers of providers to a small number across Wales. Deputy Minister, what steps can you take to ensure that, while that process—which is about efficiency and ensuring consistent provision—is going on, you do not drive out smaller-scale, not-for-profit providers in the voluntary sector from that area of work, which may be exactly the type of organisations that are most likely to work successfully with the people who are most excluded? These are concerns that have been raised with me by an organisation with which you are familiar—Jobforce Wales—and I thank you for meeting its representatives in the past. Will you give an assurance that the drive for greater efficiency in work-based training will not lead to a lack of variety in provision and will not drive out of the market those organisations that are not there to make a profit, but who are there to look after the most vulnerable?

Byddwch yn gwybod hefyd fod eich adran yn pwyso ar sefydliadau hyfforddiant yn seiliedig ar waith i gydweithio â’i gilydd, ac ni fyddai neb yn anghytuno â hynny. Fodd bynnag, mae eich adran yn awyddus i ostwng nifer y darparwyr i nifer fach ar draws Cymru. Ddirprwy Weinidog, pa gamau y gallwch eu cymryd i sicrhau, wrth i’r broses honno—sy’n ymwneud ag effeithlonrwydd a sicrhau darpariaeth gyson—fynd rhagddi, nad ydych yn gwthio darparwyr dielw llai o faint yn y sector gwirfoddol allan o’r maes gwaith hwnnw, oherwydd efallai mai dyna’r union fath o sefydliadau sydd fwyaf tebygol o weithio’n llwyddiannus gyda’r bobl sydd wedi’u heithrio fwyaf? Mae’r rhain yn bryderon a godwyd gyda mi gan sefydliad yr ydych yn gyfarwydd ag ef—Gweithlu Cymru—ac yr wyf yn diolch ichi am gyfarfod â chynrychiolwyr y sefydliad yn y gorffennol. A rowch chi sicrwydd na fydd yr ymdrech i fod yn fwy effeithlon o ran hyfforddiant yn seiliedig ar waith yn arwain at ddiffyg amrywiaeth darpariaeth, ac na fydd yn gwthio sefydliadau allan o’r farchnad nad ydynt yn gwneud elw, ond sy’n gweithio’n hytrach i ofalu am y bobl sydd fwyaf agored i niwed?

John Griffiths: The drive that we are undertaking and have undertaken successfully in recent years is about driving up the quality of work-based learning provision. All of the evaluations in Estyn inspections show that there have been major improvements in quality. The next tendering round will be very much on that basis. We want to continue to drive up quality of provision, because it is all-important. We know that a mix of organisations is able to provide top quality provision, some of which are fairly small and some of which are fairly large. So, it is quality that drives it, rather than size. We also know that organisations are coming together to co-operate, collaborate and sometimes to put forward joint proposals. So, there is a lot in what has been developed, and it will be part of the next tendering exercise, which will address the issues that you raise.  

John Griffiths: Holl ddiben ein hymdrech lwyddiannus yn awr ac yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf yw gwella ansawdd y ddarpariaeth addysg yn seiliedig ar waith. Mae’r holl werthusiadau yn arolygon Estyn yn dangos bod ansawdd wedi gwella’n fawr. Dyna’n union fydd sail y broses dendro nesaf. Yr ydym am barhau i wella ansawdd y ddarpariaeth, oherwydd mae hynny’n hollbwysig. Gwyddom fod cyfuniad o sefydliadau, rai ohonynt yn weddol fach a rhai’n weddol fawr, yn gallu cynnig darpariaeth o’r radd flaenaf. Felly, ansawdd yw’r prif ffactor, nid maint. Gwyddom hefyd fod sefydliadau’n dod ynghyd i gydweithio, cydweithredu a chyflwyno cynigion ar y cyd weithiau. Felly, mae llawer o bethau da yn yr hyn sydd  wedi ei ddatblygu, a bydd hynny’n rhan o’r ymarfer tendro nesaf, a fydd yn rhoi sylw i’r materion a godwyd gennych.

Flying Start

Dechrau’n Deg

Q7 Trish Law: Will the Minister make a statement on future funding for the Flying Start programme? OAQ(3)1090(CEL)

Jane Hutt: Flying Start is making a difference to the children and their families in our most disadvantaged communities. A funding increase of £2.9 million in 2010-11 means that the number of those accessing the high-quality, part-time childcare for two-year-olds, the extra health visiting, parenting programmes, and language and play courses will increase to 17,600.

Jane Hutt: Mae Dechrau’n Deg yn gwneud gwahaniaeth i blant a’u teuluoedd yn ein cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig. Mae cynnydd o £2.9 miliwn yn y cyllid ar gyfer 2010-11 yn golygu y bydd y nifer sy’n gallu cael gofal plant rhan-amser o safon ar gyfer plant dwy oed, ymweliadau ychwanegol gan ymwelwyr iechyd, rhaglenni rhianta, a chyrsiau iaith a chwarae yn cynyddu i 17,600.

Trish Law: Flying Start is a fantastic initiative, but the administration of it in deprived areas like Blaenau Gwent is causing serious problems. For example, the Welsh Assembly Government deemed that demographic changes needed to be made to the six target areas in Blaenau Gwent, because the number of eligible children in year two of the initiative—2010-11—jumped from 527 to 700, whereas the Welsh Assembly Government will only accept 550 in year two. That means that we have to disappoint 150 parents whose expectations were sky high after the success of Flying Start in year one. Will you consider allowing the Blaenau Gwent children and young people’s partnership more local discretion, for the message I get is that it could continue the programme for all eligible children if it were allowed to make local decisions and make the best use of all available resources?

Trish Law: Mae Dechrau’n Deg yn fenter wych, ond y mae ei gweinyddu mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig megis Blaenau Gwent yn achosi problemau difrifol. Er enghraifft, barnodd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad fod angen gwneud newidiadau demograffig yn y chwe ardal darged ym Mlaenau Gwent oherwydd bod nifer y plant cymwys yn ail flwyddyn y fenter—2010-11—wedi codi’n sylweddol o 527 i 700, a Llywodraeth y Cynulliad heb fod yn barod i dderbyn mwy na 550 yn yr ail flwyddyn. Golyga hynny ei bod yn rhaid inni siomi 150 o rieni yr oedd eu disgwyliadau mor uchel ar ôl llwyddiant blwyddyn gyntaf Dechrau’n Deg. A wnewch chi ystyried rhoi mwy o ryddid i bartneriaeth plant a phobl ifanc Blaenau Gwent weithredu fel y gwêl yn ddoeth yn lleol, oherwydd y neges a gaf yw y gallai barhau i gynnig y rhaglen i’r holl blant sy’n gymwys pe bai’n cael gwneud penderfyniadau’n lleol a gwneud y defnydd gorau o’r holl adnoddau sydd ar gael?

Jane Hutt: I know that discussions are going on in Blaenau Gwent on these issues. The increase in funding announced for the budget for 2008-11 allows for a 10 per cent increase in the scope of the programme. I have already mentioned that this will increase the numbers by 1600 children, and this is what is planned over the three-year programme. Through this programme we are investing £93.1 million in children in the most disadvantaged areas, and the interim evaluation report says that Flying Start has been a success in delivering many of the critical success factors identified with effective early years’ intervention. The key point of the intervention is the intensiveness of the investment. That is the issue that we have to work through with a number of local authorities. We cannot move away from the international evidence that if we really want to make a difference to the life chances of children, we must have intense investment. That means investment in not only free childcare, but also in aspects such as parenting programmes and health visiting. For example, the health visitor ratio should be around one health visitor to 135 children. I appreciate that these issues are being worked through, but, as Minister, I would say that we must stick to that intensive investment to make a difference for our youngest children in these disadvantaged areas.

Jane Hutt: Gwn fod trafodaethau’n mynd ymlaen am y materion hyn ym Mlaenau Gwent. Mae’r cynnydd mewn cyllid a gyhoeddwyd ar gyfer cyllideb 2008-11 yn caniatáu i’r rhaglen gael ei chynnig i 10 y cant yn fwy o blant. Fel y soniais eisoes, bydd hynny’n golygu cynnydd o 1600 yn nifer y plant, a dyna sydd wedi’i gynllunio dros gyfnod y rhaglen tair blynedd. Trwy’r rhaglen hon yr ydym yn buddsoddi £93.1 miliwn mewn plant yn yr ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig, ac y mae’r adroddiad gwerthuso interim yn dweud bod Dechrau’n Deg wedi llwyddo i gyflawni nifer o’r ffactorau llwyddiant hanfodol a nodwyd, gydag ymyriad effeithiol yn y blynyddoedd cynnar. Yr hyn sy’n allweddol am yr ymyriad yw dwyster y buddsoddi. Dyna’r mater y mae’n rhaid inni ei drafod gyda nifer o awdurdodau lleol. Ni allwn ddiystyru’r dystiolaeth ryngwladol sy’n dweud ei bod yn rhaid inni gael buddsoddiad dwys os ydym o ddifrif am wneud gwahaniaeth i gyfleoedd plant mewn bywyd. Mae hynny’n golygu buddsoddi mewn agweddau megis rhaglenni rhianta ac ymwelwyr iechyd yn ogystal â darparu gofal plant yn rhad ac am ddim. Er enghraifft, dylai’r gymhareb ar gyfer ymwelwyr iechyd fod oddeutu un ymwelydd iechyd i 135 o blant. Sylweddolaf fod gwaith yn mynd rhagddo ar y materion hyn, ond fel Gweinidog byddwn yn dweud ei bod yn rhaid inni gadw at y buddsoddiad dwys hwnnw er mwyn gwneud gwahaniaeth i’n plant ieuaf yn yr ardaloedd difreintiedig hyn.

William Graham: You will know that the situation in Newport, which has been raised with you, is causing continuous concern, particularly as there will now be possible redundancies in the partnership. You will know that 1,607 children are being helped in a deprived part of the city by an intensive programme that has been validated by an independent assessor, and that report is with you or will shortly be with you. It is an unusual state of affairs that, in a recession, a council should be admonished for efficiently delivering services. Council leaders have been confident over the summer that the programme can be delivered just as efficiently for £1,600 per head as it is for £2,100. Will you agree to look again at this issue, because it seems to be an appalling example of top-down Government that discourages efficiency and innovation in the delivery of vital education services?

William Graham: Gwyddoch fod y sefyllfa yng Nghasnewydd, sydd wedi’i chodi gyda chi, yn dal i achosi pryder, yn enwedig gan ei bod yn bosibl yn awr y bydd y bartneriaeth yn diswyddo pobl. Gwyddoch fod 1,607 o blant yn cael cymorth mewn rhan ddifreintiedig o’r ddinas trwy raglen ddwys sydd wedi’i dilysu gan asesydd annibynnol, a bydd yr adroddiad hwnnw’n cael ei ddarparu ichi cyn hir, os nad yw eisoes wedi’i ddarparu. Mae’n sefyllfa anghyffredin fod cyngor, mewn dirwasgiad, yn cael ei geryddu am ddarparu gwasanaethau’n effeithlon. Dros yr haf, mae arweinwyr y cyngor wedi bod yn hyderus y gellir cyflwyno’r rhaglen yr un mor effeithlon am £1,600 y pen ag am £2,100 y pen. A gytunwch i edrych ar y mater hwn eto, oherwydd ymddengys ei fod yn enghraifft ofnadwy o Lywodraeth o’r brig i lawr nad yw’n annog effeithlonrwydd a newydd-deb wrth ddarparu gwasanaethau addysg hanfodol?

Jane Hutt: I am sure that you will agree that the Flying Start scheme is an important priority for the Government and I am glad that a commitment is shared across the Chamber to the intensive intervention and investment that we are making in the most disadvantaged children in Wales. On the catchment areas and the reach in relation to those young people who will benefit, we consulted from last October about the number of children in Flying Start areas and local authorities also agreed that, if necessary, we should review the target areas to ensure that we had that focused, intensive investment per child. In fact, in eight authorities there were higher numbers than had been identified originally for the cap. The majority of responses from local authorities in the consultation favoured returning to those capped limits; indeed, some authorities were not reaching the numbers that we had identified for the target areas. I appreciate that this is a complex matter in a scheme that has been designed to have that intensive investment.

Jane Hutt: Yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunwch fod y cynllun Dechrau’n Deg yn flaenoriaeth bwysig i’r Llywodraeth, ac yr wyf yn falch fod ymrwymiad ar draws y Siambr i’r ymyriad dwys a’r buddsoddiad gennym ym mhlant mwyaf difreintiedig Cymru. O ran y dalgylchoedd a chwmpas y cynllun mewn cysylltiad â’r bobl ifanc a fydd yn elwa, buom yn ymgynghori o fis Hydref y llynedd am nifer y plant mewn ardaloedd Dechrau’n Deg, a chytunodd awdurdodau lleol hefyd y dylid adolygu’r ardaloedd targed, os oedd angen, er mwyn sicrhau bod gennym fuddsoddiad dwys a phenodol i bob plentyn. Yn wir, mewn wyth awdurdod yr oedd ffigurau uwch nagh a oedd wedi eu nodi’n wreiddiol wrth bennu’r terfyn. Yr oedd y rhan fwyaf o’r ymatebion gan awdurdodau lleol yn yr ymgynghoriad o blaid dychwelyd at y terfynau hynny; yn wir, nid oedd rhai awdurdodau’n cyrraedd y niferoedd yr oeddem wedi’u nodi ar gyfer yr ardaloedd targed. Yr wyf yn sylweddoli bod hwn yn fater cymhleth mewn cynllun sydd wedi’i lunio i ddarparu’r buddsoddiad dwys hwnnw.

I would like to clarify that there is no independent evaluation of Flying Start in Newport. An evaluation is being undertaken for us and every local authority has been visited. SQW Consulting, as you will have heard, has visited Newport as part of the field study. It has visited every authority for our evaluation. That is an important point: it is the Assembly Government’s evaluation. It is collecting information and we clearly need to work through this with Newport, but as I said with regard to Blaenau Gwent, it is about how we can ensure that the integrity of Flying Start, which is reaching the most disadvantaged children in Wales, is delivered.

Hoffwn egluro nad oes gwerthusiad annibynnol wedi’i wneud o’r cynllun Dechrau’n Deg yng Nghasnewydd. Mae gwerthusiad yn cael ei wneud ar ein rhan, ac ymwelwyd â phob awdurdod lleol. Fel y byddwch wedi clywed, mae SQW Consulting wedi ymweld â Chasnewydd fel rhan o’r astudiaeth maes. Mae wedi ymweld â phob awdurdod at ddiben ein gwerthusiad. Mae hwnnw’n bwynt pwysig: gwerthusiad Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ydyw. Mae’n casglu gwybodaeth, ac y mae’n amlwg fod angen inni weithio ar hyn gyda Chasnewydd. Ond fel y dywedais yng nghyswllt Blaenau Gwent, rhaid inni edrych ar y modd y gallwn sicrhau dilysrwydd Dechrau’n Deg, sy’n cyrraedd y plant mwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru,.

Leanne Wood: I am sure that you will agree that good childcare is vital for children, important for parents and essential to the economy. I have been contacted by a constituent about problems with accessing affordable childcare in Rhondda Cynon Taf. What discussions have you had with the council and voluntary organisations in the area about the provision of childcare in Rhondda Cynon Taf? Flying Start offers important help to families with young children in some areas. What discussions have you had regarding money for the Flying Start programme in Rhondda Cynon Taf, the Vale of Glamorgan and Cardiff, and what provision is available for families who live outside Flying Start areas?

Leanne Wood: Yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunwch fod gofal plant da yn hanfodol i blant, yn bwysig i rieni ac yn hanfodol i’r economi. Mae etholwr wedi cysylltu â mi ynghylch problemau wrth allu cael gofal plant fforddiadwy yn Rhondda Cynon Taf. Pa drafodaethau yr ydych wedi’u cael gyda’r cyngor a mudiadau gwirfoddol yn yr ardal ynghylch darparu gofal plant yn Rhondda Cynon Taf? Mae Dechrau’n Deg yn cynnig cymorth pwysig i deuluoedd sydd â phlant ifanc mewn rhai ardaloedd. Pa drafodaethau yr ydych wedi’u cael ynghylch arian ar gyfer y rhaglen Dechrau’n Deg yn Rhondda Cynon Taf, Bro Morgannwg a Chaerdydd, a pha ddarpariaeth sydd ar gael i deuluoedd sy’n byw y tu allan i ardaloedd Dechrau’n Deg?

Jane Hutt: It is always helpful to know of specific examples of difficulty in accessing childcare because we have a commitment, as you know, in 'One Wales’ to progressing the provision of universal affordable childcare. There has been additional budget support during the Assembly term, which includes free, part-time, high-quality childcare for two-year-olds in the areas of greatest need through Flying Start.

Jane Hutt: Mae bob amser yn ddefnyddiol cael gwybod am enghreifftiau penodol o anhawster wrth geisio cael gofal plant, oherwydd, fel y gwyddoch, mae ymrwymiad yn 'Cymru’n Un’ i ddatblygu darparu gofal plant fforddiadwy sydd ar gael yn gyffredinol. Cafwyd cymorth cyllideb ychwanegol yn ystod tymor y Cynulliad, sy’n cynnwys gofal plant rhan-amser o safon yn rhad ac am ddim i blant dwy oed yn yr ardaloedd lle mae’r angen mwyaf trwy Dechrau’n Deg.

I am delighted that the Assembly passed the Proposed Children and Families (Wales) Measure yesterday, which enshrines in primary legislation the provision to place a duty on local authorities to secure the availability of free, high-quality, targeted childcare in specific areas. It is a major step forward that we have taken together, and yesterday signalled our long-term commitment to the agenda. It is the additional £8 million over three years that I mentioned in answer to previous questions that will fund the 10 per cent expansion of the Flying Start programme. I have also announced an additional £4.2 million over three years for out-of-school childcare, which is important for this age group, as well as additional funding of £3 million over three years to support local authorities’ duty under the Childcare Act 2006 to secure sufficient childcare in their areas. The childcare sufficiency route is something that we are analysing across Wales, and we are looking at the authorities in your region, Leanne, as to how they are delivering on that sufficiency audit.

Yr wyf wrth fy modd fod y Cynulliad ddoe wedi derbyn y Mesur Arfaethedig ynghylch Plant a Theuluoedd (Cymru), sy’n diogelu mewn deddfwriaeth sylfaenol y ddarpariaeth i osod dyletswydd ar awdurdodau lleol i sicrhau bod gofal plant o safon sydd wedi’i dargedu ar gael yn rhad ac am ddim mewn ardaloedd penodol. Mae’n gam mawr ymlaen yr ydym wedi’i gymryd gyda’n gilydd, ac yr oedd ddoe yn arwydd o’n hymrwymiad hirdymor i’r agenda. Yr £8 miliwn ychwanegol dros dair blynedd, a grybwyllais wrth ateb cwestiynau blaenorol, fydd yn ariannu’r gwaith o ehangu’r rhaglen Dechrau’n Deg 10 y cant. Yr wyf hefyd wedi cyhoeddi bod £4.2 miliwn yn ychwanegol ar gael dros dair blynedd ar gyfer gofal plant y tu allan i’r ysgol. Mae hynny hefyd yn bwysig i’r grŵp oed hwn, yn ogystal â chyllid ychwanegol o £3 miliwn dros dair blynedd i gefnogi dyletswydd awdurdodau lleol dan Ddeddf Gofal Plant 2006 i sicrhau bod digon o ofal plant ar gael yn eu hardaloedd. Yr ydym yn dadansoddi’r data i weld a oes digon ar gael ledled Cymru, ac yr ydym yn edrych ar yr awdurdodau lleol yn eich rhanbarth chi, Leanne, i weld sut y maent yn darparu o ran ymateb i’r archwiliad hwnnw o ddigonolrwydd.

Michael German: I must say that the Flying Start programme is magnificent. I have observed it at first hand, both from the children’s perspective and from the health visitors’ perspective. I therefore fail to understand why you have asked Newport City Council to take an axe to the programme and remove hundreds of children and their families who are currently benefiting from Flying Start—families who are eligible, needy, and meet your criteria.

The nub of your argument, which you have expressed in debate this afternoon and to me in a letter, is that you need to focus the money on the right things. Given that you have had an evaluation done in Newport, and, as I understand it, it has concluded that the service is being provided adequately, properly and professionally, and is meeting its objectives, why is it that you persist in asking the council to reduce the numbers of children and their families who are clearly eligible for this programme? The council has been efficient and has managed to deliver the service you demand for the same amount of money. What evidence do you have that Newport is not delivering the right sort of programme for these children and their families in the Flying Start programme? What has drawn you to this conclusion?

Craidd eich dadl yr ydych wedi’i mynegi yn y Siambr y prynhawn yma, ac mewn llythyr ataf, yw bod angen sianelu’r arian at y pethau iawn. O gofio bod gwerthusiad wedi’i wneud yng Nghasnewydd sydd, fel y deallaf, wedi dod i’r casgliad fod y gwasanaeth yn cael ei ddarparu’n ddigonol, yn briodol ac yn broffesiynol ac yn bodloni ei amcanion, pam yr ydych yn dal i ofyn i’r cyngor gwtogi nifer y plant a’u teuluoedd sy’n amlwg yn gymwys i gael lle ar y rhaglen hon? Mae’r cyngor wedi gweithio’n effeithlon ac wedi llwyddo i ddarparu’r gwasanaeth sy’n ofynnol gennych am yr un faint o arian. Pa dystiolaeth sydd gennych i ddangos nad yw Casnewydd yn darparu’r math cywir o raglen i’r plant hyn a’u teuluoedd yn y rhaglen Dechrau’n Deg? Beth sydd wedi eich arwain at y casgliad hwn?

Jane Hutt: I will have to put the record straight again. The evaluation that is being undertaken has involved a visit by SQW Consulting to Newport council. This is one visit among the 22 that they will undertake. We have not had the results of the evaluation. I am sure that the consultants’ visit was constructive, and we will hear the outcome of that. What is important—and I am surprised that you have questioned this—is that we maintain the integrity of the Flying Start programme, and there is international educational evidence that we had to have this intensity of support. We have asked Newport council for evidence that it is delivering to the required intensity. If you want to go into details, I will mention the health visitor-children ratio. We understand that Newport is delivering a ratio of 1:135, however the guidance for the programme sets out that we require the ratio to be 1:110 to ensure the level of intensity for each child. I want to have a constructive discussion with Newport about this, because it is delivering excellent services for children up to three years old, and I want to discuss the integrity of the Flying Start programme and how it can be delivered.

Jane Hutt: Bydd yn rhaid imi egluro eto. Mae’r gwerthusiad sy’n cael ei wneud wedi cynnwys ymweliad gan SQW Consulting â chyngor Casnewydd. Un ymweliad yw hwn o blith 22 y bydd y cwmni’n eu gwneud. Nid ydym wedi cael canlyniadau’r gwerthusiad. Yr wyf yn siŵr fod ymweliad yr ymgynghorwyr wedi bod yn adeiladol, a byddwn yn clywed canlyniad hynny. Yr hyn sy’n bwysig—ac yr wyf yn synnu eich bod wedi codi cwestiynau ynghylch hyn—yw sicrhau nad  ydym yn glastwreiddio’r rhaglen Dechrau’n Deg, ac y mae tystiolaeth addysgol ryngwladol i ddangos ei bod yn rhaid inni gael y gefnogaeth ddwys hon. Yr ydym wedi gofyn i gyngor Casnewydd am dystiolaeth i ddangos ei fod yn gweithio yn ôl y dwyster sy’n ofynnol. Os ydych am fanylu, soniaf am y gymhareb o ran ymwelwyr iechyd a phlant. Deallwn fod Casnewydd yn gweithio ar gymhareb o 1:135. Fodd bynnag, mae’r canllawiau ar gyfer y rhaglen yn nodi bod angen inni gael cymhareb o 1:110 i sicrhau’r lefel briodol o ddwyster ar gyfer pob plentyn. Yr wyf am gael trafodaeth adeiladol gyda Chasnewydd am hyn, oherwydd y mae’n darparu gwasanaethau ardderchog i blant hyd at dair oed, ac yr wyf am drafod dilysrwydd y rhaglen Dechrau’n Deg a sut y gellir ei chyflwyno.

Further and Higher Education Funding

Cyllido Addysg Bellach ac Addysg Uwch

Q8 Chris Franks: What recent discussions has the Minister had regarding funding for further and higher education in Rhondda Cynon Taf? OAQ(3)1100(CEL)

C8 Chris Franks: Pa drafodaethau y mae’r Gweinidog wedi’u cael yn ddiweddar ynghylch cyllido addysg bellach ac addysg uwch yn Rhondda Cynon Taf? OAQ(3)1100(CEL)

Jane Hutt: Rhondda Cynon Taf is benefiting from a range of EU-funded projects including the higher skills scheme, the foundation degrees project, and the building the future together project. We are also investing £28 million to develop a new Coleg Morgannwg campus in Nantgarw.

Jane Hutt: Mae Rhondda Cynon Taf yn elwa o ystod o brosiectau a ariennir gan yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, gan gynnwys y cynllun sgiliau uwch, y prosiect graddau sylfaen a’r prosiect adeiladu’r dyfodol gyda’n gilydd. Yr ydym yn buddsoddi £28 miliwn hefyd i ddatblygu campws newydd i Goleg Morgannwg yn Nantgarw.

Chris Franks: Thank you, Minister; that is an impressive list. I recently met with the University College Union from the University of Glamorgan, and it asked how the draft Assembly Government budget would help in meeting any funding gap that may exist between the universities in Wales and England. I have also spoken with Coleg Morgannwg regarding the curriculum qualification currently being introduced. It feels that it is not yet fully aware of the impact that it will have on learners or institutions. Can you provide an answer to its questions?

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Finally, what discussions have you had with Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council regarding the impact of the £285 million 14-19 education shake-up in relation to further education providers?

Jane Hutt: There were three questions there.

The Presiding Officer: Order. You only need to answer two of them, Minister, and you will pass.

Jane Hutt: Thank you. It was important to see the University and College Union report on the delivery of education. I was particularly interested in the issue it raised on the education postcode lottery, and I would like to put the record straight on that point. The national planning and funding system, which funds further education in Wales, recognises that providers incur additional costs in meeting the learning needs of learners from areas of educational deprivation. We have the educational deprivation uplift in the national planning and funding system model, which will contribute to these additional costs.

Jane Hutt: Diolch. Yr oedd yn bwysig gweld yr Undeb Prifysgol a Choleg yn adrodd ar ddarparu addysg. Yr oedd diddordeb arbennig gennyf yn y mater a gododd am y loteri cod post mewn addysg, a hoffwn gywiro’r cofnod ar y pwynt hwnnw. Mae’r system gynllunio ac ariannu genedlaethol, sy’n ariannu addysg bellach yng Nghymru, yn cydnabod bod darparwyr yn mynd i gostau ychwanegol wrth ddiwallu anghenion dysgu dysgwyr sy’n hanu o ardaloedd o amddifadedd addysgol. Mae gennym y codiad amddifadedd addysgol yn y system gynllunio ac ariannu genedlaethol, a fydd yn cyfrannu at y costau ychwanegol hyn.

The importance of our investment in higher education is demonstrated by my commitment to ensure that the release of funding from the reform of Student Finance Wales will be going to higher education. The £31 million will be invested in higher education from the 2010 academic year, as we have the change in the system. It is important that I recognised that higher education also needs to get its act together in terms of the fundraising initiative that I announced last December. In fact, I attended a conference only in the last fortnight at which all the higher education institutions came together. With a £10 million-plan over three years, we challenge them to ensure that they can reach some of the levels of fundraising investment on a match funding basis, which is funding made available through the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales. That will ensure that they play their part in securing funding from, for example, some very illustrious alumni who live across the world and who I am sure could give some of their well-earned income back to their universities.

Arwydd o bwysigrwydd ein buddsoddiad mewn addysg uwch yw fy ymrwymiad i sicrhau y bydd rhyddhau cyllid o ddiwygio Cyllid Myfyrwyr Cymru yn mynd i addysg uwch. Bydd y £31 miliwn yn cael ei fuddsoddi mewn addysg uwch o flwyddyn academaidd 2010 ymlaen, wrth i’r system newid. Mae’n bwysig imi fod wedi cydnabod bod angen i’r sector addysg uwch hefyd roi trefn ar ei bethau o ran y fenter codi arian a gyhoeddais fis Rhagfyr diwethaf. A dweud y gwir, bûm mewn cynhadledd yn ystod y pythefnos diwethaf lle daeth yr holl sefydliadau addysg uwch at ei gilydd. Gan ddefnyddio cynllun gwerth £10 miliwn dros dair blynedd, yr ydym yn eu herio i sicrhau y gallant gyrraedd rhai o’r lefelau buddsoddi drwy godi arian ar sail arian cyfatebol, sef cyllid sydd ar gael trwy Gyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru. Bydd hynny’n sicrhau eu bod yn gwneud eu rhan wrth sicrhau cyllid, er enghraifft, gan rai cyn-fyfyrwyr llwyddiannus iawn sy’n byw ym mhedwar ban y byd ac a allai, mae’n siŵr gennyf, roi rhywfaint o’r incwm y maent wedi gweithio’n galed i’w ennill yn ôl i’w prifysgolion.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Minister, your department last spring launched a review into college governance in the further education sector. It was supposed to be a short, sharp review, but, to date, it still has not reported. Of concern to the further education sector is exactly when this review will report, as it was supposed to report in the autumn and there is no date set for it to report. Secondly, if there was a need for this review, what exactly was your department looking at rectifying in the further education sector, when all the reports indicate that governance in the further education sector is robust?

Andrew R.T. Davies: Weinidog, yn ystod y gwanwyn y llynedd lansiodd eich adran adolygiad o drefn lywodraethu colegau yn y sector addysg bellach. Bwriadwyd i’r adolygiad fod yn ymarfer cryno a sydyn, ond nid oes adroddiad wedi’i gyflwyno hyd yma. Mae’r sector addysg bellach yn pryderu pryd yn union y bydd adroddiad yr adolygiad hwn yn cael ei gyflwyno, oherwydd yr oedd i fod i ymddangos yn yr hydref ac nid oes dyddiad wedi’i bennu. Yn ail, os oedd angen yr adolygiad hwn, beth yn union yr oedd eich adran yn bwriadu ei unioni yn y sector addysg bellach, a’r adroddiadau i gyd yn dangos bod y drefn lywodraethu yn y sector addysg bellach yn gadarn?

Jane Hutt: I am delighted to report that John Griffiths is chairing the review and that Fforwm and its further education partners and, indeed, union representatives are fully engaged. Therefore, you must await the report.

Capital Investment in Schools

Buddsoddiad Cyfalaf mewn Ysgolion

Q9 Alun Davies: Will the Minister provide an update on capital investment in schools in mid and west Wales? OAQ(3)1121(CEL)

C9 Alun Davies: A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am fuddsoddiad cyfalaf mewn ysgolion yn y canolbarth a’r gorllewin? OAQ(3)1121(CEL)

Jane Hutt: Over the past year, I have announced a schools capital funding package of £204.7 million for schools, of which £47.046 million was approved for Carmarthen, Ceredigion, Pembrokeshire and Powys local authorities. In addition, I am pleased to confirm the allocation of £5.3 million of strategic capital investment funding for Gwynedd.

Jane Hutt: Dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf yr wyf wedi cyhoeddi pecyn ariannu cyfalaf gwerth £204.7 miliwn ar gyfer ysgolion, a chymeradwywyd £47.046 miliwn o’r arian hwnnw ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol Caerfyrddin, Ceredigion, sir Benfro a Phowys. Yn ogystal, yr wyf yn falch cadarnhau dyraniad o £5.3 miliwn o’r gronfa strategol buddsoddi cyfalaf ar gyfer Gwynedd.

Alun Davies: That is a very impressive list of investments in schools in mid and west Wales, and that is why, Minister, people in mid and west Wales are voting Labour, to ensure that this investment continues. The real comparison to make—[Interruption.]

Alun Davies: Mae’n rhestr drawiadol iawn o fuddsoddiadau mewn ysgolion yn y canolbarth a’r gorllewin, a dyna pam, Weinidog, y mae pobl yn y canolbarth a’r gorllewin yn pleidleisio dros y blaid Lafur, er mwyn sicrhau bod y buddsoddiad hwn yn parhau. Y gymhariaeth wirioneddol i’w gwneud—[Torri ar draws.]

The Presiding Officer: Order. Alun Davies is about to ask a question of the Minister.

Alun Davies: Thank you, Presiding Officer. The real comparison to make is with the situation in 1997, when only £57 million of investment in school buildings was made across the whole of Wales. Minister, do you agree that the environment in which we teach children is essential for them to learn well, and that when this Government is investing in education, it is investing in the infrastructure of education, and that we will provide world-class education and a world-class start for our children?

Alun Davies: Diolch, Lywydd. Y gymhariaeth wirioneddol i’w gwneud yw’r gymhariaeth â’r sefyllfa yn 1997, pan fuddsoddwyd £57 miliwn yn unig mewn adeiladau ysgol ar draws Cymru gyfan. Weinidog, a ydych yn cytuno bod yr amgylchedd lle yr ydym yn addysgu plant yn hollbwysig er mwyn iddynt dkldysgu’n dda, a phan fo’r Llywodraeth hon yn buddsoddi mewn addysg, ei bod yn buddsoddi yn isadeiledd addysg, ac y byddwn yn darparu addysg o’r radd flaenaf a dechrau o’r radd flaenaf i’n plant?

Jane Hutt: Many Members from across the board have said that they are impressed with the investment in education today. I am grateful for all of those contributions. I am glad that investment in our curriculum, the school capital building programme, and the further education capital estate is being recognised across the Chamber. Funds are now being allocated on a more targeted basis, and issues such as school reorganisation, which is linked to the reduction of surplus places, are significant considerations when it comes to decisions on the targeting and prioritisation of Assembly Government funding. That is an important point to make. The Government has shown clear direction in terms of the way expenditure is prioritised. For me, to go to open a new regional resource facility developed at Portfield special school in July of this year, as a result of Assembly Government investment and the regional special educational needs element of our capital investment programme, and in partnership with Pembrokeshire County Council, just demonstrates what we can achieve if we work together. That is what we are doing in the twenty-first century school programme.

Jane Hutt: Mae nifer o Aelodau o bob plaid wedi dweud eu bod wrth eu bodd â’r buddsoddiad mewn addysg heddiw. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am bob un o’r cyfraniadau hynny. Yr wyf yn falch fod buddsoddiad yn ein cwricwlwm, y rhaglen gyfalaf adeiladau ysgol, a’r rhaglen gyfalaf ar gyfer addysg bellach yn cael ei gydnabod ar draws y Siambr. Erbyn hyn, mae arian yn cael ei ddyrannu yn fwy ar sail wedi’i dargedu, ac y mae materion megis ad-drefnu ysgolion, sy’n gysylltiedig â lleihau nifer y lleoedd gwag, yn ystyriaethau pwysig pan ddaw’n fater o benderfynu targedu a blaenoriaethu cyllid Llywodraeth y Cynulliad. Mae hwnnw’n bwynt pwysig i’w wneud. Mae’r Llywodraeth wedi dangos cyfeiriad clir yn y modd y caiff gwariant ei flaenoriaethu. I mi, yr oedd cael mynd ym mis Gorffennaf eleni i  agor cyfleuster adnoddau rhanbarthol newydd a ddatblygwyd yn ysgol arbennig Portfield, o ganlyniad i fuddsoddiad Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ac elfen ranbarthol ein rhaglen buddsoddi cyfalaf ar gyfer anghenion addysgol arbennig, ac mewn partneriaeth â Chyngor Sir Penfro, yn dangos yr hyn y gallwn ei gyflawni trwy gydweithio. Dyna’r ydym yn ei wneud yn rhaglen ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Mae tair etholaeth yn sir Gaerfyrddin. Yn 2007, pleidleisiodd mwyafrif yr etholwyr dros Blaid Cymru, yn enwedig yn Nwyrain Caerfyrddin a Dinefwr.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: There are three constituencies in Carmarthenshire. In 2007 the vast majority of voters voted for Plaid Cymru, particularly in Carmarthen East and Dinefwr.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Nid oes arnom angen gwers hanes. Yr ydym yn gwbl ymwybodol o’ch pleidleisiau, syr, felly buaswn yn gwerthfawrogi cwestiwn.

The Presiding Officer: Order. We do not need a history lesson. We are quite aware of your votes, sir, so, I should appreciate your asking a question.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Yr oeddwn yn sylweddoli eich bod yn gwbl ymwybodol o’r canlyniadau yn 2007 yn sir Gaerfyrddin, Lywydd. Hoffwn ofyn cwestiwn penodol ynglŷn â’r gwariant ar addysg yn sir Gaerfyrddin. Mae llawer o sôn fod ysgol newydd i’w sefydlu yn nyffryn Tywi a bod arian gan y Llywodraeth i wneud hynny. Mae’r ysgol i’w lleoli rhwng Llandeilo a Llanymddyfri a bydd yn cyfuno’r disgyblion sy’n cael eu haddysgu ar hyn o bryd yn Ysgol Gyfun Tre-gib ac yn Ysgol Gyfun Pantycelyn. A allwch chi gadarnhau, Weinidog, a oes arian ar gael? A ydyw’r ysgol hon yn bosibilrwydd real, neu a fydd yn rhaid i rieni’r disgyblion yn yr ardal honno ystyried opsiynau eraill?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: I realise that you are fully aware of the results in Carmarthenshire in 2007, Presiding Officer. I should like to ask a specific question on education expenditure in Carmarthenshire. There has been a great deal of talk that a new school will be established in the Tywi valley and that the Government has funding to do just that. The school is to be located between Llandeilo and Llandovery and will combine pupils who are currently taught in Ysgol Gyfun Tre-gib and Ysgol Gyfun Pantycelyn. Can you confirm, Minister, whether this funding is available? Is the establishment of this school a real possibility, or will the parents of pupils in the area have to consider other options?

Jane Hutt: Thank you, Rhodri Glyn. Gallaf gadarnhau pa arian sydd wedi ei wario. Ni allaf gadarnhau dim cynigion am arian nad ydynt eto wedi cyrraedd fy nesg. Rhwng 2002 a 2010 dyrannwyd £27,876,298 i Gyngor Sir Caerfyrddin drwy gyfrwng grantiau gwella adeiladau ysgol. Mae wedi llwyddo i gael arian ar gyfer tri phrosiect yn rhan gyntaf y trawsnewid SPIG i gyfalaf ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Fel y gwyddoch, mae’r prosiectau hyn yn cynnwys gwaith adnewyddu sylweddol a darparu cyfleusterau anghenion addysgol arbennig y cyfnod sylfaen yn Ysgol y Dderwen, a gwaith adnewyddu helaeth yn ysgolion y Morfa ac Ysgol y Felin. Felly, mae buddsoddi sylweddol wedi bod, ac yr ydym yn disgwyl cynigion eraill.

The Minister for Social Justice and Local Government (Brian Gibbons): On 15 July, the Auditor General for Wales published a highly critical report on the corporate governance of the Isle of Anglesey County Council and recommended that the Welsh Assembly Government intervene to secure recovery. I agreed with the recommendation in an oral statement to Plenary on the same day. I then issued the council with a formal direction, the terms of which I outlined in my written statement of 12 August.

Y Gweinidog dros Gyfiawnder Cymdeithasol a Llywodraeth Leol (Brian Gibbons): Ar 15 Gorffennaf cyhoeddodd Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru adroddiad beirniadol iawn am drefn llywodraethu corfforaethol Cyngor Sir Ynys Môn, ac argymhellodd y dylai Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ymyrryd i sicrhau adferiad. Cytunais â’r argymhelliad mewn datganiad llafar i’r Cyfarfod Llawn ar yr un diwrnod. Yna, rhoddais gyfarwyddyd ffurfiol i’r cyngor, ac amlinellais delerau’r cyfarwyddyd hwnnw yn fy natganiad ysgrifenedig ar 12 Awst.

In that statement, I also announced the appointment of Mr David Bowles as the council’s interim managing director. I am pleased to have been able to secure David’s services, and it would be fair to say that the leadership of the council was equally enthusiastic about it. David is an experienced chief executive with substantial experience, and he is well equipped to help secure a rapid and sustainable resolution of Anglesey’s problems.

My direction also required the council to co-operate with a recovery board. It, in turn, will advise me on the progress that the council is making, as well as advising the council on possible courses of action that it might take to support recovery. I informed Members of the composition of the board in my written statement of 16 September.

Yr oedd fy nghyfarwyddyd yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i’r cyngor gydweithredu â bwrdd adfer. Yn ei dro, bydd y bwrdd yn rhoi gwybod i mi am y cynnydd y mae’r cyngor yn ei wneud, ac yn cynghori’r cyngor ynghylch ffyrdd posibl y gallai weithredu er mwyn cynorthwyo’r broses adfer. Rhoddais wybod i’r Aelodau am gyfansoddiad y bwrdd yn fy natganiad ysgrifenedig ar 16 Medi.

The recovery board met for the first time at the beginning of October. Its first meeting focused upon how the board would operate, and considered evidence about the scale and nature of the challenge that the council faces. The recovery board’s terms of reference requires the Chair, Elan Closs Stephens, to provide me with a report after each meeting.

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Her first report sets out the board’s decision to focus its work initially on the issues of political behaviour, discipline and relationships between members and officers. I fully support that decision. Those issues featured prominently in the auditor general’s report, and resolving them is fundamental to any sustainable recovery and to restoring the council’s reputation. I expect that members and officers of the council will give the board their full co-operation, as my direction requires them to do.

Mae ei hadroddiad cyntaf yn egluro penderfyniad y bwrdd i ganolbwyntio’i waith i ddechrau ar faterion yn ymwneud ag ymddygiad gwleidyddol, disgyblaeth, a’r berthynas rhwng aelodau a swyddogion. Yr wyf yn cefnogi’r penderfyniad hwnnw’n llawn. Yr oedd y materion hynny’n amlwg iawn yn adroddiad yr archwilydd cyffredinol, ac y mae eu datrys yn hanfodol i sicrhau unrhyw adferiad cynaliadwy ac adennill enw da y cyngor. Disgwyliaf i aelodau a swyddogion y cyngor gydweithredu’n llawn â’r bwrdd, yn unol â gofynion fy nghyfarwyddyd.

The board has also identified that a few members continue to exhibit some of the sort of behaviour that the auditor general criticised, despite some months having passed since his report and my direction. This is a matter of considerable concern as Anglesey’s recovery will fail unless all members and officers of the council accept a shared responsibility for the current problems and contribute fully to the action required to resolve them.  

Mae’r bwrdd wedi nodi hefyd fod rhai aelodau’n dal i ddangos rhywfaint o’r math o ymddygiad a feirniadwyd gan yr archwilydd cyffredinol, er bod rhai misoedd ers cyflwyno’i adroddiad ef a’m cyfarwyddyd i. Mae hynny’n fater sy’n peri pryder sylweddol, oherwydd bydd adferiad Ynys Môn yn siŵr o fethu oni fydd holl aelodau a swyddogion y cyngor yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb rhyngddynt am y problemau presennol, ac yn cyfrannu’n llawn at y camau gweithredu sy’n ofynnol i’w datrys.

At the same time, there is still a tendency for some to ascribe the council’s problems to the actions and behaviour of a few named councillors. However unacceptable such behaviour may be, blaming individuals for what is undoubtedly a deep-rooted corporate failure is not only misguided, but it is no recipe for a sustainable recovery. It allows those not named, or those doing the naming, to avoid responsibility for what has become a shared solution.

Ar yr un pryd, mae tuedd o hyd i rai briodoli problemau’r cyngor i weithredoedd ac ymddygiad rhai cynghorwyr penodol. Ni waeth pa mor annerbyniol yw ymddygiad rhai cynghorwyr, mae rhoi’r bai ar unigolion am rywbeth sydd heb os yn fethiant corfforaethol, ac sydd wedi’i wreiddio’n ddwfn, yn annoeth. Ond yn fwy na hynny, nid yw’n ffordd i sicrhau adferiad cynaliadwy. Mae’n caniatau i’r sawl nad ydynt wedi’u henwi, neu’r sawl sydd wrthi’n enwi, osgoi cymryd cyfrifoldeb am yr hyn sydd wedi datblygu’n ateb a rennir.

In the coming weeks, I expect to see rapid improvement in members’ behaviour and in the contribution of all members and officers to the recovery. If matters do not improve, I will not hesitate to use my powers again to strengthen the terms of direction. I would, of course, take the advice of the board on this, but such a direction could, for instance, restructure the council’s committee system or remove from members any functions that they have proved themselves unwilling to exercise responsibly.

Yn ystod yr wythnosau sydd i ddod, disgwyliaf weld gwelliant cyflym yn ymddygiad aelodau ac yng nghyfraniad yr holl aelodau a’r swyddogion i’r adferiad. Os na fydd y sefyllfa’n gwella, ni fyddaf yn oedi cyn defnyddio fy mhwerau eto i gryfhau amodau’r cyfarwyddyd. Wrth gwrs, byddwn yn gofyn am gyngor y bwrdd ynghylch hynny, ond gallai cyfarwyddyd o’r fath ailstrwythuro system bwyllgorau’r cyngor, er enghraifft, neu dynnu oddi ar aelodau unrhyw swyddogaethau y maent wedi dangos eu bod yn anfodlon eu cyflawni’n gyfrifol.

This early emphasis on political issues in no way detracts from the importance of reforming the council’s administrative structure. I am pleased that David Bowles has that in hand. It is essential that he is fully able and empowered to pursue that work. Again, the board will be taking a close interest in that and will report to me accordingly. The council will need to produce a detailed and credible plan for addressing the auditor general’s recommendations as soon as possible. It needs to resolve its problems sustainably and should not consider adopting a tick-box approach to responding to the auditor general’s recommendations. It is abundantly clear that solving the council’s problems will be a long-term and, at times, difficult process.

Nid yw’r pwyslais cynnar hwn ar faterion gwleidyddol yn bychanu pwysigrwydd ailffurfio strwythur gweinyddol y cyngor o gwbl. Yr wyf yn falch fod David Bowles yn gofalu am hynny. Mae’n hanfodol fod ganddo’r holl allu a’r holl rym i gyflawni’r gwaith hwnnw. Unwaith eto, bydd y bwrdd yn edrych yn ofalus ar hynny ac yn adrodd wrthyf yn unol â hynny. Bydd angen i’r cyngor gynhyrchu cynllun manwl a chredadwy ar gyfer mynd i’r afael ag argymhellion yr archwilydd cyffredinol cyn gynted ag sy’n bosibl. Mae angen iddo ddatrys ei broblemau mewn modd cynaliadwy, ac ni ddylai ystyried mabwysiadu dull gweithredu’n seiliedig ar dicio bocsys wrth ymateb i argymhellion yr archwilydd cyffredinol. Mae’n gwbl amlwg y bydd datrys problemau’r cyngor yn broses faith, a fydd yn anodd ar adegau.

Despite the severe problems of leadership and governance, many of the council’s services remain at least adequate. That reflects the effort and commitment of many council officers in the face of poor political and strategic leadership. It is important that those standards are maintained and that service areas play a full role in securing recovery. The recovery board will aim to hold discussions with representatives from one service area at each meeting. The second recovery board meeting is due to take place next week. The board will meet the executive member and director of education and leisure and the vice chair of the standards committee and a monitoring officer. It will consider the role of the standards committee and how its practical effect may be increased. In future, I hope that the committee will be able to take a proactive role in setting out and enforcing acceptable standards of conduct. I am sure that support and advice from other local authorities in this regard would also help the council.

Er gwaethaf y problemau arwain a llywodraethu difrifol, mae llawer o wasanaethau’r cyngor yn dal yn ddigonol o leiaf. Mae hynny’n adlewyrchu ymdrech ac ymrwymiad nifer o swyddogion y cyngor yn wyneb arweinyddiaeth wleidyddol a strategol wael. Mae’n bwysig i’r safonau hynny gael eu cynnal a bod i feysydd gwasanaeth ran lawn wrth sicrhau adferiad. Bydd y bwrdd adfer yn ceisio cael trafodaethau gyda chynrychiolwyr o un maes gwasanaeth ym mhob cyfarfod. Disgwylir cynnal ail gyfarfod y bwrdd adfer yr wythnos nesaf. Bydd y bwrdd yn cyfarfod â’r aelod gweithredol a’r cyfarwyddwr addysg a hamdden, ac is-gadeirydd y pwyllgor safonau a swyddog monitro. Bydd yn ystyried rôl y pwyllgor safonau a sut y gellir cynyddu ei effaith ymarferol. Yn y dyfodol, gobeithio y bydd y pwyllgor yn gallu cymryd rôl ragweithiol wrth bennu a gorfodi safonau ymddygiad derbyniol. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai cymorth a chyngor i’r perwyl hwnnw gan awdurdodau lleol eraill yn helpu’r cyngor hefyd.

I last met the leader of the council in Anglesey only a couple of weeks ago, and we had a useful and frank discussion. I am pleased that he and his colleagues continue to co-operate wholeheartedly with the arrangements we have put in place and are taking action to address some of the problems. Acceptance and ownership of problems such as these by the leadership of the authority is the critical first step in solving them. The task for all in the council will be to maintain that level of commitment now the interim managing director and the recovery board have begun their work. I will be monitoring the council’s recovery closely over the coming months, as advised by the board, and I will continue to meet the leadership of the council regularly. I will also keep Members informed of progress as appropriate.  

Cyfarfûm ddiwethaf ag arweinydd y cyngor yn Ynys Môn rai wythnosau’n unig yn ôl, a chawsom drafodaeth ddefnyddiol a gonest. Yr wyf yn falch ei fod ef a’i gydweithwyr yn parhau i gydweithredu’n llwyr â’r trefniadau yr ydym wedi’u rhoi ar waith, ac yn gweithredu i fynd i’r afael â rhai o’r problemau. Sicrhau bod arweinwyr yr awdurdod yn derbyn ac yn perchnogi problemau fel y rhain yw’r cam cyntaf hanfodol i’w datrys. Y dasg i bawb yn y cyngor fydd cynnal y lefel honno o ymrwymiad, gan fod y rheolwr gyfarwyddwr dros dro a’r bwrdd adfer bellach wedi dechrau ar eu gwaith. Byddaf yn monitro adferiad y cyngor yn agos dros y misoedd sydd i ddod, yn ôl cyngor y bwrdd, a byddaf yn parhau i gyfarfod ag arweinwyr y cyngor yn rheolaidd. Byddaf hefyd yn rhoi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i’r Aelodau am gynnydd fel sy’n briodol.

Darren Millar: Thank you for your statement, Minister. It is important that Assembly Members are updated regularly when significant failings, such as those in Anglesey council, are identified anywhere in local government in Wales. As you know, my party has been supportive of your intervention and the direction you have given so far in response to the auditor general’s report. There is no doubt that the failure of democratic leadership and the administrative problems in Anglesey are deep rooted, and will, as you have acknowledged, take a long time to resolve. The resolutions that are required could be painful at times.

Darren Millar: Diolch am eich datganiad, Weinidog. Mae’n bwysig i Aelodau’r Cynulliad gael y manylion diweddaraf yn rheolaidd pan fydd methiannau sylweddol, megis y rheini yng nghyngor Ynys Môn, yn dod i’r amlwg rywle mewn llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru. Fel y gwyddoch, mae fy mhlaid i wedi bod yn gefnogol i’ch ymyriad a’r cyfarwyddyd yr ydych wedi’i roi hyd yma i ymateb i adroddiad yr archwilydd cyffredinol. Nid oes amheuaeth nad yw methiant arweinyddiaeth ddemocrataidd a’r problemau gweinyddol yn Ynys Môn wedi gwreiddio’n ddwfn, ac y byddant yn cymryd amser hir i’w datrys, fel yr ydych wedi cydnabod. Gallai’r atebion sy’n ofynnol fod yn boenus ar adegau.

Citizens have been let down, and cultures within the council need to change. I pay tribute to the council officers, who continue to deliver services against that difficult background. I am pleased to note that the board has recognised from the outset that it is there to support the council and to help it to build its capacity to find its own way through the recovery process. I am also pleased to hear that the council’s leadership appears to be fully engaged in the recovery process, and is working well with the board. However, I am concerned by the suggestion that the behaviour of some members continues to be in line with that identified in the report by the auditor general. We know that that behaviour could jeopardise the whole recovery process. I am hoping that members will subscribe fully to the training and support that will be offered by the Welsh Local Government Association, and that it will be effective. If that is not the case, Minister, I trust that you will use your powers of direction to ensure that members cannot jeopardise this process any longer, and that the problems in Anglesey will be resolved. I am aware of the reluctance to identify individual members who exhibit this sort of behaviour, but there are times when naming and shaming can have a significant impact on improving individuals’ behaviour, and I hope that that will not be ruled out in the future.

Mae dinasyddion wedi’u siomi, ac y mae angen i ddiwylliannau yn y cyngor newid. Yr wyf yn rhoi teyrnged i swyddogion y cyngor, sy’n parhau i ddarparu gwasanaethau yn y cefndir anodd hwn. Yr wyf yn falch nodi bod y bwrdd wedi cydnabod o’r dechrau ei fod yno i gynorthwyo’r cyngor a’i helpu i feithrin ei allu i ddod o hyd i’w ffordd ei hun drwy’r broses adfer. Yr wyf hefyd yn falch clywed fod arweinwyr y cyngor fel pe baent yn ymwneud yn llawn â’r broses adfer, ac yn gweithio’n dda gyda’r bwrdd. Fodd bynnag, mae’r awgrym fod ymddygiad rhai aelodau’n dal fel yr hyn a nodwyd yn adroddiad yr archwilydd cyffredinol yn peri pryder imi. Gwyddom y gallai’r ymddygiad hwnnw beryglu’r holl broses adfer. Gobeithio y bydd aelodau’n derbyn yn llawn yr hyfforddiant a’r cymorth y bydd Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru yn eu cynnig, ac y byddant yn effeithiol. Os na fydd hynny’n digwydd, Weinidog, hyderaf y byddwch yn defnyddio eich pwerau cyfarwyddo i sicrhau na all aelodau beryglu’r broses hon ymhellach, ac y caiff y problemau yn Ynys Môn eu datrys. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r amharodrwydd i enwi aelodau unigol sy’n dangos y math hwn o ymddygiad, ond weithiau gall enwi pobl a chodi cywilydd arnynt gael effaith sylweddol ar wella ymddygiad unigolion, a gobeithio na fydd hynny’n cael ei ddiystyru yn y dyfodol.

To close, I have two brief points to make. I am concerned that the board appears to be focusing its attention on failings in the democratic and political process. I suppose that I can understand that, but I am concerned that it is not moving on soon enough to addressing the problems with the council’s administrative failings. Those problems need to be twin-tracked and looked at in parallel. What direction will you give to the board to make sure that it does not lose sight of the fact that the problem in Anglesey is double pronged? It is not all down to politicians; there are failings on the other side of the fence as well.

I gloi, mae gennyf ddau bwynt byr i’w gwneud. Yr wyf yn pryderu bod y bwrdd fel pe bai’n canolbwyntio’i sylw ar fethiannau yn y broses ddemocrataidd a gwleidyddol. Mae’n debyg y gallaf ddeall hynny, ond yr wyf yn pryderu nad yw’n symud ymlaen yn ddigon buan i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau sy’n ymwneud â methiannau gweinyddol y cyngor. Mae angen olrhain y problemau hynny gyda’i gilydd, ac edrych arnynt ochr yn ochr â’i gilydd. Pa gyfarwyddyd y byddwch yn ei roi i’r bwrdd i wneud yn siŵr na fydd yn colli golwg ar y ffaith fod y broblem yn Ynys Môn yn ddeublyg? Nid y gwleidyddion yn unig sydd ar fai: mae methiannau dros y clawdd hefyd.

Finally, despite the fact that your initial statement on this matter was made in July, it is a concern that the board met only last month, on 2 October, and that that was its first meeting. We need to work quickly to address these problems, and it is important that the board sets out a clear timetable by which we can expect to see some real results from its work. I would be grateful if you could respond to those points, Minister.

Yn olaf, er ichi wneud eich datganiad cychwynnol ar y mater hwn ym mis Gorffennaf, mae’n bryder na fu i’r bwrdd gyfarfod tan y mis diwethaf, ar 2 Hydref, ac mai hwnnw oedd ei gyfarfod cyntaf. Mae angen inni weithio’n gyflym i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau hyn, ac y mae’n bwysig i’r bwrdd bennu terfynau amser clir pan allwn ddisgwyl gweld rhai canlyniadau go iawn o’i waith. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallech ymateb i’r pwyntiau hynny, Weinidog.

Brian Gibbons: I thank you and your party for your support. It is important to have strong cross-party support at the Assembly for working to address these problems. You are spot-on that, first and foremost, it is the citizens of Anglesey who have been let down. They have been let down at a time when they face formidable problems on the social and economic front, as well as having a wide range of other problems to confront. It is the citizens who have been let down, and, while we look at the council’s problems, it is important that we realise that people are the ultimate victims of the failure of governance in Anglesey.

Brian Gibbons: Diolch i chi a’ch plaid am eich cefnogaeth. Mae’n bwysig cael cefnogaeth gref ar draws y pleidiau yn y Cynulliad wrth weithio i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau hyn. Yr ydych yn llygad eich lle wrth ddweud mai dinasyddion Ynys Môn sydd wedi’u siomi. Maent wedi’u siomi ar adeg pan fônt yn wynebu problemau enbyd yn gymdeithasol ac yn economaidd, a phan fo ganddynt ystod eang o broblemau eraill i’w hwynebu. Y dinasyddion sydd wedi’u siomi, ac wrth inni edrych ar broblemau’r cyngor, y mae’n bwysig inni sylweddoli mai pobl sy’n dioddef methiant y drefn lywodraethu yn Ynys Môn yn y pen draw.

You are also right to say that the board is there to support, but recovery must be owned and delivered by the council itself. It would be a serious mistake therefore to think that responsibility for the recovery rests with the board, or indeed with me as a Minister. Ultimately, we will not see sustainable recovery on the island unless Anglesey council itself takes ownership and delivers. I place on record my gratitude to the Welsh Local Government Association for its willingness to make its support available, and to John Davies, its leader, for his personal commitment and willingness to be of help and support.

Yr ydych yn iawn hefyd wrth ddweud bod y bwrdd yno i gynorthwyo’r cyngor, ond rhaid i’r cyngor ei hun berchnogi’r adferiad a’i sicrhau. Felly, byddai’n gamgymeriad difrifol meddwl mai’r bwrdd, neu fi fel Gweinidog, yn wir, sy’n gyfrifol am yr adferiad. Yn y pen draw, ni fyddwn yn gweld adferiad cynaliadwy ar yr ynys oni fydd cyngor Ynys Môn ei hun yn ei bercheogi a’i sicrhau. Yr wyf am gofnodi fy niolch i Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru am ei pharodrwydd i gynorthwyo, ac i John Davies, ei harweinydd, am ei ymrwymiad a’i barodrwydd personol i helpu a chefnogi.

3.20 p.m.

Turning to the specific points that you raised, it is true that the board has decided that it needs to deal with the political culture that exists in Anglesey. In the Wales Audit Office’s report, that has been highlighted as a particularly deep problem. However, in parallel with that, the new managing director, David Bowles, is already taking a wide range of actions: first, to develop a budget strategy, and secondly, to implement the kind of action plan needed to underpin recovery. He is also looking at the strengths and weaknesses of the local authority’s management board, which is central. Therefore, David Bowles is looking at the areas that you mentioned as areas that the recovery board should be looking at. However, I am confident that this twin-track approach is the correct way to go.

I droi at y pwyntiau penodol a godwyd gennych, y mae’n wir fod y bwrdd wedi penderfynu bod angen iddo ymdrin â’r diwylliant gwleidyddol sy’n bodoli yn Ynys Môn. Yn adroddiad Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru, tynnwyd sylw at hynny fel problem arbennig o ddwfn. Fodd bynnag, ochr yn ochr â hynny, mae’r rheolwr gyfarwyddwr newydd, David Bowles, eisoes yn cymryd ystod eang o gamau gweithredu: yn gyntaf, i ddatblygu strategaeth cyllideb, ac yn ail i weithredu’r math o gynllun gweithredu y mae ei angen i fod yn sail i adferiad. Mae hefyd yn edrych ar gryfderau a gwendidau bwrdd rheoli’r awdurdod lleol, sy’n fater canolog. Mae David Bowles, felly, yn edrych ar y meysydd a gybwyllwyd gennych fel meysydd y dylai’r bwrdd adfer fod yn edrych arnynt. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn hyderus mai’r dull gweithredu deublyg hwn yw’r llwybr cywir i’w ddilyn.

You have a point in saying that it took until October for the board to meet, but you will realise that many of the people working on it are high-prestige, high-standard and high-status people. In the letter that I received from Elan Closs Stephens, she recognises the calibre of the board. The board is committed to meeting monthly over the next few months. Only when it is assured that progress is being made will the frequency be reduced to two-monthly or even three-monthly meetings. However, the initial commitment is to monthly meetings, which is an indication of its commitment to making progress as quickly as possible.

Mae gennych bwynt dilys wrth ddweud iddi gymryd tan fis Hydref i’r bwrdd gyfarfod, ond byddwch yn sylweddoli bod nifer o’r bobl sy’n gweithio arno yn bobl uchel eu bri, uchel eu safon ac uchel eu statws. Yn y llythyr a gefais gan Elan Closs Stephens, mae’n cydnabod calibr y bwrdd. Mae’r bwrdd wedi ymrwymo i gyfarfod bob mis dros yr ychydig fisoedd nesaf. Dim ond pan fydd yn sicr bod cynnydd yn digwydd y bydd y cyfarfodydd yn cael eu cynnal yn llai aml, bob deufis neu bob tri mis hyd yn oed. Fodd bynnag, mae ymrwymiad  cychwynnol y bwrdd i gyfarfod bob mis yn arwydd o’i ymrwymiad i wneud cynnydd cyn gynted ag sy’n bosibl.

David Lloyd: Hoffwn ddiolch i’r Gweinidog am ei ddatganiad, a datganaf gefnogaeth Plaid Cymru i’r gweithredu yn y mater dyrys hwn o’r hyn sy’n digwydd gyda Chyngor Sir Ynys Môn. Mae grŵp Plaid Cymru ar yr ynys wedi galw am yr ymyrraeth hon. Mae arweinydd ein grŵp ar yr ynys, y cynghorydd Bob Parry, wedi galw yn gyson am i bawb weithio gyda’i gilydd er lles pawb yn Ynys Môn. Yr ydym i gyd yn cofio adroddiad beirniadol yr archwilydd cyffredinol a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Gorffennaf. Yn eich datganiad ar y pryd, Weinidog, bu ichi ddweud mai’r prif feysydd o bryder oedd yr angen i ddatblygu gweledigaeth glir ar gyfer Ynys Môn, yr angen i atgyfnerthu’r canol corfforaethol, yr angen i ad-drefnu’r pwyllgor safonau ac, yn olaf, yr angen i gefnogi aelodau i gael dealltwriaeth well o’u swyddogaeth graffu.

Yn sgil hynny, sefydlwyd y bwrdd adfer, ac yr ydym yn croesawu’r datblygiad hwnnw. Mae’n fater o bryder i mi fod rhai aelodau etholedig yn dal i fod yn amharod i newid, oherwydd os oes un neges o bwys yn adroddiad yr archwilydd cyffredinol, y neges honno yw bod angen newid agweddau. Mae’n amlwg bod yr arweinyddiaeth wleidyddol a’r gweithredu corfforaethol ar yr ynys yn wan.

Mae hyn oll yn fater difrifol, fel y mae pawb wedi cytuno. Yr ydych yn sôn yn eich datganiad am arweinyddiaeth wleidyddol a strategol wael. Yr ydym yn dymuno’r gorau i’r bwrdd adfer o ran y gweithredu, ond nodaf gyda phryder fod rhywrai yn amharod i newid. Felly, pa sancsiynau ychwanegol y bydd y Gweinidog yn eu hystyried os na ddaw tro ar fyd yn Ynys Môn ac os na fydd pethau’n newid?

Would it be possible to have details of the assessments which the recovery board will use to decide the way forward? Which assessments will the board undertake to determine whether the situation in Anglesey is improving or not?

Brian Gibbons: Thank you very much, Dai, for your support and that of your party. You are right to say that the deputy leader of the Isle of Anglesey County Council, Bob Parry, has been extremely supportive of the work that we have had to do to support the recovery process. I pay tribute to him and to Clive McGregor, the leader. Both are firmly committed to this process and have indicated that they are willing to take the tough decisions that will be needed if we are to drive this process forward.

Brian Gibbons: Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dai, am eich cefnogaeth a chefnogaeth eich plaid. Yr ydych yn iawn wrth ddweud bod dirprwy arweinydd Cyngor Sir Ynys Môn, Bob Parry, wedi bod yn hynod gefnogol i’r gwaith yr ydym wedi gorfod ei wneud i gynorthwyo’r broses adfer. Yr wyf yn rhoi teyrnged iddo ef ac i Clive McGregor, yr arweinydd. Mae’r ddau wedi ymrwymo’n gadarn i’r broses hon, ac wedi dangos eu bod yn barod i wneud y penderfyniadau anodd y bydd eu hangen os ydym am yrru’r broses hon ymlaen.

As you may have noticed in my response to Darren, the points that you raised on the auditor general’s report are key areas already being picked up by either the recovery board or the new managing director. Those four or five crucial points are areas for priority action. When I met the leader and managing director at the council’s offices two or three weeks ago, they indicated that they were making progress on those areas. At that meeting, they also reported that the fact that the recovery board had commented on the behaviour as it did indicated to many of the members and the local authority that the board was scrutinising their activities in a well-informed and authoritative way. The fact that the recovery board and Elan Closs Stephens’s initial report highlighted that had had a salutary effect on the elected members. If that had not been included in the report, it might have been a signal that the bad behaviours of the past would be acceptable in the future.

Efallai ichi sylwi yn fy ymateb i Darren fod y pwyntiau a godwyd gennych ynghylch adroddiad yr archwilydd cyffredinol yn feysydd allweddol y mae’r bwrdd adfer neu’r rheolwr gyfarwyddwr newydd esioes yn edrych arnynt. Mae’r pedwar neu’r pum pwynt hanfodol hynny’n feysydd ar gyfer camau gweithredu a gaiff flaenoriaeth. Pan gyfarfûm â’r arweinydd a’r rheolwr gyfarwyddwr yn swyddfeydd y cyngor bythefnos neu dair wythnos yn ôl, awgryment eu bod yn gwneud cynnydd yn y meysydd hynny. Yn y cyfarfod hwnnw, dywedasant hefyd fod y ffaith fod y bwrdd adfer wedi gwneud sylwadau fel y gwnaeth am ymddygiad yn dangos i lawer o’r aelodau a’r awdurdod lleol fod y bwrdd yn craffu ar eu gweithgareddau mewn modd hyddysg ac awdurdodol. Yr oedd y ffaith fod adroddiad cychwynnol y bwrdd adfer ac Elan Closs Stephens wedi tynnu sylw at hynny wedi cael effaith lesol ar yr aelodau etholedig. Pe na bai hynny wedi’i gynnwys yn yr adroddiad, gallasai fod yn arwydd y byddai ymddygiad gwael y gorffennol yn dderbyniol yn y dyfodol.

I have written to the authority’s leader, Clive McGregor, to point out that I fully support Elan Closs Stephens’s recommendation and to state that I must be willing to extend the direction that I have issued should that be needed. Let there be no ambiguity about that. If the authority is not shaping up and is not making progress, we will have to take action, because, ultimately, we are not talking about the council as a corporate entity; we are talking about the citizens of Anglesey. They are faced with formidable problems, and their council has a big task to give leadership and hope to the people of that island given the difficult challenges ahead.

Yr wyf wedi ysgrifennu at arweinydd yr awdurdod, Clive McGregor, i nodi fy mod yn cefnogi argymhelliad Elan Closs Stephens yn llwyr, ac i ddweud ei bod yn rhaid inni fod yn barod i ymestyn y cyfarwyddyd yr wyf wedi’i roi os bydd angen hynny. Na foed dim amwysedd ynghylch hynny. Os na fydd yr awdurdod yn rhoi trefn ar bethau ac yn gwneud cynnydd, bydd yn rhaid inni weithredu oherwydd, yn y pen draw, nid sôn yr ydym am y cyngor fel endid corfforaethol: sôn yr ydym am ddinasyddion Ynys Môn. Mae problemau enbyd yn eu hwynebu, ac y mae gan eu cyngor dasg enfawr o roi arweiniad a gobaith i bobl yr ynys honno gan gofio’r heriau anodd sydd i ddod.

Peter Black: Thank you for your statement, Minister. As you know, when this intervention board was set up, the Welsh Liberal Democrats fully supported your actions. We considered them necessary to improve the political and corporate leadership of the council, to raise standards and scrutiny levels in the council, and to make it more effective. We do not depart from that view now. In fact, the recovery board’s report underlines the need for that process to continue.

Peter Black: Diolch am eich datganiad, Weinidog. Fel y gwyddoch, pan sefydlwyd y bwrdd ymyrryd hwn yr oedd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru’n cefnogi eich gweithredoedd yn llwyr. Yr oeddem yn eu hystyried yn ofynnol i wella arweinyddiaeth wleidyddol a chorfforaethol y cyngor, codi safonau a lefelau craffu yn y cyngor, a’i wneud yn fwy effeithiol. Nid yw ein safbwynt yn wahanol yn awr. Mewn gwirionedd, mae adroddiad y bwrdd adfer yn pwysleisio bod angen i’r broses honno barhau.

However, we also have to recognise the context of the politics of the island, given its strong independent tradition and particularly the fact that all councillors have been elected by voters. It may well be that their view that they are representing their particular ward lies at the heart of some of the behaviours exhibited. If we are to better control the behaviour of councillors, the standards regime needs to be strengthened at an early stage. Councillors need to be made aware of the code of conduct, and the code must be robust and properly enforced. That seems to be the most appropriate way of dealing with misbehaviour on the council, rather than having you, Minister, taking further action here in Cardiff because councillors are not acting as you, the recovery board, and the vast majority of Members in the Chamber feel they should be.

Fodd bynnag, mae angen hefyd inni gydnabod cyd-destun gwleidyddiaeth yr ynys, o gofio’i thraddodiad annibynnol cryf, ac yn enwedig y ffaith fod yr holl gynghorwyr wedi’u hethol gan bleidleiswyr. Mae’n bosibl fod barn y cynghorwyr eu bod yn cynrychioli eu ward benodol hwy wrth wraidd rhywfaint o’r ymddygiad a ddangoswyd. Os ydym i reoli ymddygiad cynghorwyr yn well, mae angen cryfhau’r drefn safonau yn gynnar. Mae angen sicrhau bod cynghorwyr yn ymwybodol o’r cod ymddygiad, a rhaid i’r cod fod yn gadarn a chael ei orfodi’n briodol. Ymddengys mai dyna’r ffordd fwyaf priodol i ymdrin â chamymddwyn ar y cyngor, yn hytrach na’ch bod chi, Weinidog, yn cymryd camau pellach yma yng Nghaerdydd am nad yw’r cynghorwyr yn gweithredu fel yr ydych chi, y bwrdd adfer, a mwyafrif helaeth yr Aelodau yn y Siambr, yn teimlo y dylent.

Therefore, as part of this, I hope that we can find a balanced approach to dealing with these problems. There needs to be a stronger emphasis on the corporate leadership, on how the council is run, and of course on the level of scrutiny, which is very important if it is to deliver a better service.

3.30 p.m.

We also need to reflect on what you said about the problems that the island is facing and how the council needs to respond to that. However, the balance must also be about taking account of the local democratic mandate that various councillors have and ensuring that they are working within an appropriate standards regime, which will, in turn, ensure that they are able to deliver for the voters who have put them there. I would be grateful if you could acknowledge that this is your way forward.

Mae angen hefyd inni fyfyrio am yr hyn a ddywedwyd gennych am y problemau sy’n wynebu’r ynys, a sut mae angen i’r cyngor ymateb i hynny. Fodd bynnag, rhaid i’r cydbwysedd ymwneud hefyd ag ystyried y mandad democrataidd lleol sydd gan amryw iol gynghorwyr, a sicrhau eu bod yn gweithio o fewn trefn safonau briodol, a fydd yn ei thro yn sicrhau eu bod yn gallu sicrhau canlyniadau ar gyfer y pleidleiswyr sydd wedi’u hethol i’r cyngor. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallech gydnabod mai hon yw eich ffordd ymlaen.

Brian Gibbons: Yes, very much so. Again, I am very grateful for the Liberal Democrats’ support and for your personal support. Before I deal with that, I will deal with Dai’s question in relation to the information being in the public domain. In addressing the questions that you want answered, the fact that the information is in the public domain is important. All the reports of the chair of the recovery board will be sent to me following each meeting and we expect that they will then be put into the public domain. We have established a web page on the Assembly Government website, by which this information will be available. That addresses Peter’s point and Dai’s earlier point, and hopefully there will be good transparency in this process.

Brian Gibbons: Ie, yn wir. Unwaith eto, yr wyf yn ddiolchgar iawn am gefnogaeth y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol ac am eich cefnogaeth bersonol. Cyn imi ymdrin â hynny, hoffwn ymdrin â chwestiwn Dai, sef a fydd y wybodaeth yn wybodaeth gyhoeddus. Wrth roi sylw i’r cwestiynau yr ydych am gael atebion iddynt, mae’r ffaith fod y wybodaeth yn wybodaeth gyhoeddus yn bwysig. Bydd holl adroddiadau cadeirydd y bwrdd adfer yn cael eu hanfon ataf fi ar ôl pob cyfarfod, a disgwyliwn y byddant ar gael i’r cyhoedd wedi hynny. Yr ydym wedi creu tudalen ar wefan Llywodraeth y Cynulliad lle bydd y wybodaeth hon ar gael. Mae hynny’n mynd i’r afael â phwynt Peter a phwynt Dai yn gynharach, a gobeithio y bydd lefel dda o eglurder yn y broses hon.

Peter raises an interesting point that there is a strong tradition of independent political representation on the island of Anglesey, but having said that, there are other parts of Wales where independent representation is also the norm, but they do not have the same range of problems. Therefore, I do not think that the independent political representation tradition, in itself, is a justification in any way for some of the behaviour that has occurred on the island. However, that is a valid observation, and John Davies, the leader of the Welsh Local Government Association, who is an independent member himself, and leads an independent administration in Pembrokeshire, will be able to provide particular insights into a local authority that has independent leadership, as opposed to the traditional party-political structure. Individuals have a ward mandate, without doubt, but we need to remember that the auditor general said that the politics of Anglesey is too personal and too parochial, and that while elected members need to represent their constituents, equally, to represent their constituents effectively they need to take a corporate view of the challenges facing the island. Solely focusing on the personal, petty and parochial will not help Anglesey one bit, and at the end of the day, it will not help their constituents either.

Cododd Peter bwynt diddorol, sef bod traddodiad cryf o gynrychiolaeth wleidyddol annibynnol ar Ynys Môn. Ond wedi dweud hynny, mae cynrychiolaeth annibynnol yn arferol mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru hefyd, ond nid oes ganddynt hwy’r un ystod o broblemau. Felly, nid wyf yn credu bod y traddodiad o gynrychiolaeth wleidyddol annibynnol ynddo’i hun yn gyfiawnhad o gwbl dros rywfaint o’r ymddygiad sydd wedi digwydd ar yr ynys. Fodd bynnag, mae’n sylw dilys, a bydd John Davies, arweinydd Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, sy’n aelod annibynnol ei hun ac sy’n arwain gweinyddiaeth annibynnol yn Sir Benfro, yn gallu rhannu dealltwriaeth benodol o awdurdod lleol sydd ag arweinyddiaeth annibynnol, yn hytrach na’r strwythur traddodiadol yn seiliedig ar bleidiau gwleidyddol. Mae gan unigolion fandad ward, heb os, ond y mae angen inni gofio bod yr archwilydd cyffredinol wedi dweud bod gwleidyddiaeth Ynys Môn yn rhy bersonol ac yn rhy blwyfol, ac er bod angen i aelodau etholedig gynrychioli eu hetholwyr, i’r un graddau mae angen iddynt edrych yn gorfforaethol ar yr heriau sy’n wynebu’r ynys, er mwyn cynrychioli eu hetholwyr yn effeithiol. Ni fydd canolbwyntio ar faterion personol, dibwys a phlwyfol yn unig yn helpu Ynys Môn o gwbl, ac yn y pen draw ni fydd yn helpu eu hetholwyr ychwaith.

There is a place for representing your electors, but, equally, there is a much bigger place, in the context of Anglesey, for looking at the wider picture. Standards need to improve, which is one of the reasons why I was very pleased to see that the recovery board will meet the vice chair of standards at the next board meeting. That is an important step forward. Equally, I cannot but agree that effective scrutiny is a key element of driving improvement on the island. Part of the culture in Anglesey is that it has not been possible to be critical and constructive without degenerating into the petty and the personal. One of the challenges for the elected members in Anglesey is to deliver constructive challenge and be part of the opposition, but not to deteriorate into the type of behaviour that the auditor general reported on. This change may be difficult for a small minority of councillors, and it is incumbent, therefore, on the majority of councillors to indicate to that minority that their behaviour is not acceptable. That is why I said in my statement that this is not just a responsibility of that minority; it must be the responsibility of each and every member.

Mark Isherwood: I welcome your comments about independent members, noting that almost all local authorities in north Wales have independents in their leadership groups, including a number who are council leaders. Not one of them is subject to the sorts of problems that we are discussing today, or certainly not that I am aware of.

I wrote to you a few months ago after a tax adviser had alleged that his client had been the victim of a fraud. He alleged that grant money was being misappropriated by persons administering the grant schemes within the council. The Deputy Minister, Leighton Andrews, responded on your behalf, saying—

The Presiding Officer: Order. Is this to do with the issue that is before us today? It seems to relate to a detailed administrative decision by the council, and if there are allegations of fraud involved, there may be criminal proceedings pending. I am not aware of the situation and I would not want us to get into a sub judice situation on this.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. A yw hyn yn ymwneud â’r mater sydd ger ein bron heddiw? Ymddengys ei fod yn ymwneud â phenderfyniad gweinyddol manwl gan y cyngor, ac os oes honiadau o dwyll ynghlwm wrtho, gall achosion troseddol fod ar droed. Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o’r sefyllfa, ac ni fyddwn am inni fynd i sefyllfa sy’n fater o gyfraith.

Mark Isherwood: I suspect that the comments that I was about to make would not be sub judice. I am not aware of this matter being involved in a court of law at the present time.

The Presiding Officer: This is the difficulty with these issues. I have to have notice of such issues before I can properly determine them. I understand that the matter before us today is not the detailed administration of the council, but the work of the recovery board. I would like the Minister to be questioned appropriately on those matters, so that he can respond.

Mark Isherwood: All I would ask, therefore, is: will he assure us that the work of the recovery board will be vigorous in investigating all matters and ensuring that, where matters arise, they will be exposed and acted upon?

Mark Isherwood: Y cyfan a ofynnaf, felly, yw hyn: a wnaiff ef  roi sicrwydd inni y bydd y bwrdd adfer yn ymchwilio i bob mater yn rymus gan sicrhau y bydd materion yn cael eu datgelu, lle byddant yn codi, ac y cymerir camau gweithredu yn eu cylch?

Brian Gibbons: Yes. It is important that due diligence is exercised in the recovery board. However, there is a pervasive culture that, where particular issues are not resolved to individual members’ satisfaction, the ready resort to either the ombudsman or procedures like that, or even writing to Ministers of the Assembly Government, seem to be common practice. That is part of the problem. Elected members on the island of Anglesey have to be able to recognise that it is possible to disagree and to be critical, but that you have to be able to do so within a constructive overall framework. The fact that you do not win the day or win the argument is not an excuse for it to result in a personal conflict or in seeking to involve outside agencies if you do not get your own way.

Brian Gibbons: Gwnaf. Mae’n bwysig fod diwydrwydd dyladwy ar waith yn y bwrdd adfer. Fodd bynnag, pan na fydd materion penodol yn cael eu datrys mewn ffordd sydd wrth fodd aelodau unigol, mae troi ar unwaith at yr ombwdsmon neu weithdrefnau felly, neu hyd yn oed ysgrifennu at Weinidogion Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, i’w gweld yn arfer cyffredin. Mae hynny’n rhan o’r broblem. Rhaid i aelodau etholedig Ynys Môn allu cydnabod ei bod yn bosibl anghytuno a bod yn feirniadol, ond ei bod yn rhaid ichi allu gwneud hynny o fewn fframwaith cyffredinol adeiladol. Nid yw’r ffaith nad ydych yn ennill y dydd neu’n ennill y ddadl yn esgus dros wrthdaro personol neu geisio cynnwys asiantaethau allanol os na fyddwch yn cael eich ffordd.

The Minister for Finance and Public Service Delivery (Andrew Davies): I move that

Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid a Chyflenwi Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus (Andrew Davies): Cynigiaf fod

the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order No. 7.61(vii):

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 7.61(vii):

yn nodi adroddiad blynyddol Ombwdsmon Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus Cymru 2008/09, a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 23 Mehefin 2009. (NDM4320)

The Assembly is asked today to not the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales’s annual report for 2008-09. The Public Services Ombudsman (Wales) Act 2005, which received Royal Assent in April 2005, came into force the following year. As we know, the Act provided for a unified ombudsman service in Wales, bringing together the offices of the former Commissioner for Local Administration in Wales, the Health Service Commissioner for Wales, the Social Housing Ombudsman for Wales and the Welsh Administration Ombudsman.  

Heddiw, gofynnir i’r Cynulliad nodi adroddiad blynyddol Ombwdsmon Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus Cymru 2008-09. Daeth Deddf Ombwdsmon Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus (Cymru) 2005, a gafodd Gydsyniad Brenhinol ym mis Ebrill 2005, i rym y flwyddyn ganlynol. Fel y gwyddom, darparodd y Ddeddf fod gennym wasanaeth ombwdsmon unedig yng Nghymru, gan dynnu ynghyd swyddi’r cyn-Gomisiynydd dros Weinyddu Lleol yng Nghymru, Comisiynydd Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cymru, Ombwdsmon Tai Cymdeithasol Cymru ac Ombwdsmon Gweinyddiaeth Cymru.

This is the third unified annual report to be published by the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales. It is, however, the first annual report to be published by Peter Tyndall, who took up post in April 2008 following Adam Peat’s retirement. As he acknowledges in the annual report, the service that he has taken on was already well established and effective. I am confident that we can look to Peter to further enhance this service and that we will continue to learn from his invaluable advice and recommendations, which will, in turn, contribute to the Assembly Government’s priority of raising standards in public services.

Dyma’r trydydd adroddiad blynyddol unedig i Ombwdsmon Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus Cymru ei gyhoeddi. Fodd bynnag, hwn yw’r adroddiad blynyddol cyntaf i’w gyhoeddi gan Peter Tyndall, a ddechreuodd yn y swydd ym mis Ebrill 2008 yn dilyn ymddeoliad Adam Peat. Fel y mae’n ei gydnabod yn yr adroddiad blynyddol, yr oedd y gwasanaeth y mae wedi ei arwain eisoes wedi’i hen sefydlu ac yn effeithiol. Yr wyf yn hyderus y gallwn ddibynnu ar Peter i wella’r gwasanaeth hwn ymhellach, ac y byddwn yn parhau i ddysgu o’i gyngor a’i argymhellion amhrisiadwy a fydd, yn eu tro, yn cyfrannu at flaenoriaeth Llywodraeth y Cynulliad o wella safonau mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.

3.40 p.m.

Of course, the ombudsman’s role is not confined to investigating complaints about listed authorities under his jurisdiction. He attaches great importance to learning and sharing lessons from complaints to enable public bodies to improve their services and their response to citizens’ complaints. Indeed, the ombudsman contributed to the development of complementary sets of guidance that seek to do just that: the 'Principles of Good Administration’, the 'Principles for Remedy’ and the 'Guidance to Local Authorities on Complaints Handling’.

Wrth gwrs, nid ymchwilio i gwynion am awdurdodau rhestredig dan ei awdurdodaeth  yw unig rôl yr ombwdsmon. Mae’n rhoi pwys mawr ar ddysgu a rhannu gwersi o gwynion i alluogi cyrff cyhoeddus i wella’u gwasanaethau a’u hymateb i gwynion gan ddinasyddion. Yn wir, cyfrannodd yr ombwdsmon at ddatblygu cyfres o ganllawiau atodol sy’n ceisio gwneud yr union beth hwnnw: sef 'Egwyddorion Gweinyddu Da’, 'Egwyddorion Unioni Cam’ a’r 'Canllawiau i Awdurdodau Lleol ar Ddelio â Chwynion’.

I also pay tribute to the contribution that Peter has made during the past year to the work that I started and was undertaken by the Welsh Assembly Government in looking at complaints handling: first, as a member of the Assembly Government’s Putting Things Right project, which looked at how the NHS in Wales investigates things that have gone wrong and made recommendations for revised arrangements—this work was instigated by the Minister for Health; and secondly, for contributing to, and leading on, the development of a common complaints handling process. The ombudsman has been engaged with public bodies across Wales to bring greater consistency to the management of complaints across a wide range of key public services. This is something that I feel strongly about, because many service users and citizens find the various complaints processes and procedures complex. I strongly believe that a common, streamlined system would be to everyone’s advantage—the complainant, the various public bodies, and those who work in public services, local services and the Assembly Government alike. The work is not yet finished, but progress is very encouraging.

Yr wyf am roi roi teyrnged hefyd i’r cyfraniad y mae Peter wedi’i wneud yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf i’r gwaith a ddechreuwyd gennyf i a’i wneud gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad wrth ymdrin â chwynion: yn gyntaf, fel aelod o brosiect Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, Gweithio i Wella, a oedd yn ystyried sut mae’r GIG yng Nghymru’n ymchwilio i bethau sydd wedi mynd o le, ac wedi gwneud argymhellion ar gyfer trefniadau diwygiedig—y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a ysgogodd y gwaith hwn; ac yn ail, am gyfrannu at ddatblygu proses gyffredin ar gyfer ymdrin â chwynion, ac arwain y gwaith hwn. Mae’r ombwdsman wedi bod yn ymwneud â chyrff cyhoeddus ar draws Cymru i gael mwy o gysondeb wrth reoli cwynion ar draws ystod eang o wasanaethau cyhoeddus allweddol. Yr wyf yn teimlo’n gryf am y mater hwn, oherwydd mae nifer o ddefnyddwyr gwasanaethau a dinasyddion yn gweld bod yr holl wahanol brosesau a’r gweithdrefnau cwyno’n gymhleth. Yr wyf yn credu’n gryf y byddai cael system gyffredin a symlach o fudd i bawb—y sawl sy’n cwyno, yr amrywiol gyrff cyhoeddus a’r rheini sy’n gweithio mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, gwasanaethu lleol a Llywodraeth y Cynulliad. Nid yw’r gwaith wedi’i orffen eto, ond mae’r cynnydd yn galonogol iawn.

Of particular significance is the ombudsman’s proposal to introduce a new complaints, advice and signposting service, which will provide a national single point of entry to our citizens on how and when to complain. The ombudsman’s proposal is consistent with the solution identified by my officials to improve people’s access to complaints procedures based on research into citizens’ experiences of current complaints arrangements. Those who take part voice strong support for a signposting service to help them over the first hurdle. I believe that the Finance Committee is looking at the funding for this proposed service as part of its consideration of the ombudsman’s budget for the financial year 2010-11.

Mae cynnig yr ombwdsmon i gyflwyno gwasanaeth newydd ar gyfer cwyno, cynnig cyngor a chyfeirio pobl ymlaen yn arbennig o bwysig, a bydd yn darparu un man cyswllt cenedlaethol i’n dinasyddion i’w cynghori ynghylch sut a phryd i gwyno. Mae cynnig yr ombwdsmon yn gyson â’r ateb a nodwyd gan fy swyddogion i wella mynediad pobl i weithdrefnau cwyno’n seiliedig ar waith ymchwil i brofiadau dinasyddion o drefniadau cwyno presennol. Mae’r sawl sy’n cymryd rhan yn mynegi cefnogaeth gref i’r syniad o gael gwasanaeth cyfeirio i’w helpu i oresgyn y rhwystr cyntaf. Credaf fod y Pwyllgor Cyllid yn edrych ar ariannu’r gwasanaeth arfaethedig hwn wrth ystyried cyllideb yr ombwdsmon am y flwyddyn ariannol 2010-11.

In a moment, I will share with you some of the statistics from the annual report. However, we must not be distracted by the numbers. The risk is that we could forget that, behind these statistics are individual citizens who have been compelled to access the ombudsman’s service because they are dissatisfied with the service that they have received or the way in which they have been treated.

I will now turn to the statistics. How did public bodies fare at the hands of the ombudsman during the annual report period of April 2008 to the end of March 2009? The ombudsman’s office received a total of 1,501 new complaints. This compares with a reported total of 1,420 new complaints in the previous year. This is an overall increase of 6 per cent, compared to the 10 per cent increase the office has reported every year since the ombudsman’s office was established in 2006. The ombudsman has reported, however, that the first six months of this period saw an increase of 29 per cent compared with the same period in the previous year. This is thought to be a result of the publicity that the services received following Peter Tyndall’s appointment and the high level of media attention that a number of health investigation reports, in particular, received at around the same time. This upward trend in the number who accessed the ombudsman’s service may well be due to an increase in people’s awareness of the existence of his service rather than the deterioration in services, but we can never be complacent about this assumption.

Trof yn awr at yr ystadegau. Sut daeth cyrff cyhoeddus yn eu blaen yn ôl yr ombwdsmon yn ystod y cyfnod dan sylw yn yr adroddiad blynyddol, sef mis Ebrill 2008 i ddiwedd mis Mawrth 2009? Daeth cyfanswm o 1,501 o gwynion newydd i law swyddfa’r ombwdsmon. Mae hynny’n cymharu â chyfanswm o 1,420 o gwynion newydd yr adroddwyd yn eu cylch yn y flwyddyn flaenorol. Mae hyn yn gynnydd cyffredinol o 6 y cant, o’i gymharu â’r cynnydd o 10 y cant y mae’r swyddfa wedi adrodd yn ei gylch bob blwyddyn ers sefydlu swyddfa’r ombwdsmon yn 2006. Mae’r ombwdsmon wedi nodi, fodd bynnag, fod cynnydd o 29 y cant yn chwe mis cyntaf y cyfnod hwn o’i gymharu â’r un cyfnod y flwyddyn flaenorol. Credir bod hyn o ganlyniad i’r cyhoeddusrwydd a gafodd y gwasanaethau yn dilyn penodi Peter Tyndall, a’r sylw mawr gan y cyfryngau i nifer o adroddiadau ymchwilio ym maes iechyd, yn enwedig, tua’r un adeg. Mae’n ddigon posibl mai’r hyn sydd i gyfrif am y cynnydd hwn yn y nifer a ddefnyddiodd wasanaeth yr ombwdsmon yw’r ffaith fod pobl yn fwy ymwybodol o fodolaeth y gwasanaeth, yn hytrach na bod gwasanaethau’n gwaethygu, ond ni allwn fyth fod yn hunanfodlon a chymryd hyn yn ganiataol.

During the reporting period, the ombudsman considered a total of 1,952 complaints, some of which had been carried over from the previous year. Seventy-three of these complaints were in respect of the Assembly Government and Assembly Government sponsored bodies. That was a slight increase on the 71 complaints made in the previous year. Of the 73 complaints received with regard to us as a Government or to our sponsored bodies, a total of eight complaints were investigated during this period, compared with 12 last year. Of the eight investigations, six complaints were upheld, compared with eight of the 12 made the previous year.

Yn ystod y cyfnod yr adroddiad, ystyriodd yr ombwdsmon gyfanswm o 1,952 o gwynion, rai ohonynt wedi’u dwyn ymlaen o’r flwyddyn flaenorol. Yr oedd 73 o’r cwynion hyn yn ymwneud â Llywodraeth y Cynulliad a chyrff a noddir gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad. Yr oedd hynny’n gynnyd bach ers y 71 o gwynion a wnaed yn y flwyddyn flaenorol. O’r 73 o gwynion a ddaeth i law amdanom ni fel Llywodraeth neu’r cyrff a noddir gennym, ymchwiliwyd i gyfanswm o wyth o gwynion yn ystod y cyfnod hwn, o’u cymharu â 12 o gwynion y llynedd. O’r wyth ymchwiliad, cafodd chwech o’r cwynion eu cadarnhau, o’u cymharu ag wyth o’r 12 a wnaed y flwyddyn flaenorol.

As a Government, we highly value the feedback from the ombudsman’s investigations, and place great importance on the report’s findings and recommendations. We will continue to work closely with the ombudsman’s office to ensure that we are capitalising on the information that his reports and guidance provide us with.  

Yr ydym ni fel Llywodraeth yn gwerthfawrogi’n fawr iawn yr adborth o ymchwiliadau’r ombwdsmon, a rhown gryn bwys ar ddarganfyddiadau ac argymhellion yr adroddiad. Byddwn yn parhau i weithio’n agos gyda swyddfa’r ombwdsmon i sicrhau ein bod yn manteisio ar y wybodaeth y mae ei adroddiadau a’i arweiniad yn ei rhoi inni.

In the present economic climate, we must concentrate more than ever on efficiency and value for money, but this does not mean that we should turn our backs on putting citizens at the centre of everything that we do, which is a core principle in the Welsh public service. In fact, tighter public spending means that we should be making our services even more citizen-centred than previously. We should be focusing on getting things right the first time, which, in turn, will reduce the cost of putting things right afterwards.

Yn yr hinsawdd economaidd sydd ohoni,  rhaid inni ganolbwyntio’n fwy nag erioed ar effeithlonrwydd a gwerth yr arian, ond nid yw hyn yn golygu y dylem gefnu ar yr egwyddor o osod dinasyddion yng nghanol popeth a wnawn, sy’n un o egwyddorion creiddiol gwasanaeth cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Yn wir, y mae cyfyngu gwariant cyhoeddus yn golygu y dylem fod yn sicrhau bod dinasyddion yn fwy canolog i’n gwasanaethau nag o’r blaen. Dylem fod yn canolbwyntio ar wneud pethau’n iawn y tro cyntaf, a fydd yn ei dro yn lleihau’r gost o roi pethau’n iawn wedyn.

Nick Ramsay: I welcome the report and the Minister’s comments regarding the public services ombudsman’s work over the past year, and the hard work that has been carried out by Peter in that office. To touch on a few things that the Minister drew out from the report, there is general consensus that combining the different ombudsmen roles into a single ombudsman role has delivered a number of benefits over the last year. As we are currently in recession and in challenging economic times, it is to be expected that the number of complaints about public services in Wales would rise. We are up against that old quandary: has there been an increase in dissatisfaction with services, or is the increase in complaints because people know to whom to complain and are more willing to complain? As the Minister said, it is probably a mixture of both, but I think that the increase in people’s readiness to complain has certainly contributed to the increase in the statistics that he spoke about.

Nick Ramsay: Yr wyf yn croesawu’r adroddiad a sylwadau’r Gweinidog ar y gwaith y mae’r ombwdsmon gwasanaethau cyhoeddus wedi’i wneud dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, a’r gwaith caled a wnaed gan Peter yn y swydd honno. I gyfeirio at rai pethau y tynnodd y Gweinidog sylw atynt yn yr adroddiad, mae yna gonsensws cyffredinol fod cyfuno swyddogaethau’r gwahanol ombwdsmyn mewn un swydd ombwdsmon wedi sicrhau nifer o fanteision dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Gan ein bod yng nghanol dirwasgiad ar hyn o bryd ac mewn adeg heriol yn economaidd, gellid disgwyl i nifer y cwynion am wasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru godi. Yr ydym yn wynebu’r hen benbleth honno: a yw nifer y cwynion wedi cynyddu oherwydd bod pobl yn fwy anfodlon â’r gwasanaethau ynteu oherwydd bod pobl yn gwybod wrth bwy y dylent gwyn a’u bod yn fwy parod i gwyno? Fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog, mae’n debyg ei fod yn gyfuniad o’r ddau beth, ond credaf fod y cynnydd ym mharodrwydd pobl i gwyno yn sicr wedi cyfrannu at y cynnydd yn yr ystadegau y soniodd amdanynt.

It is important that the public has an understanding of this office. It is still relatively early days in the grand scheme of things, and one would forgive members of the public for not being entirely sure whom they should see in relation to individual complaints, so I welcome the Minister’s comments about making information available to people so that they know where to go. I would think that all of us as Assembly Members have been approached by members of the public about this, and I certainly have referred people on to the public services ombudsman.

Mae’n bwysig i’r cyhoedd ddeall y swydd hon. Mae’n dal yn eithaf cynnar mewn gwirionedd, a gellid maddau i’r cyhoedd am beidio â bod yn gwbl siŵr at bwy y dylent droi i wneud cwynion unigol, felly, yr wyf yn croesawu sylwadau’r Gweinidog ynghylch sicrhau bod gwybodaeth ar gael i bobl er mwyn iddynt wybod at bwy i droi. Byddwn yn tybio ein bod bob un, fel Aelodau Cynulliad, wedi cael cwestiynau am hyn gan y cyhoedd, ac yr wyf fi’n sicr wedi cyfeirio pobl at yr ombwdsmon gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.

In terms of the economic situation, which I touched on earlier, there is a need at this time to be efficient and to encourage efficiency across all departments, and I agree with the Minister that the ombudsman should also be efficient. Delivering the Beecham objectives at this time is obviously difficult, but if the Beecham review cannot be tested and is not durable at an economically challenging time, what is the point of it? If it did well in the good times, it also has to do well now.

O ran y sefyllfa economaidd, y soniais ychydig amdani’n gynharach, ar adeg fel hon mae angen inni fod yn effeithlon ac annog effeithlonrwydd ar draws pob adran, a chytunaf â’r Gweinidog y dylai’r ombwdsmon fod yn effeithlon hefyd. Mae’n amlwg fod cyflawni amcanion Beecham yn anodd ar adeg fel hon, ond os na ellir rhoi prawf ar adolygiad Beecham ac os nad yw’n gadarn ar adeg heriol yn economaidd, beth yw ei ddiben? Os oedd yn gweithio’n iawn yn y dyddiau da, rhaid iddo hefyd weithio’n dda yn awr.

There is no reason to be complacent, as the Minister said. The report reflects that people are more willing to complain, but there are also complaints to be made. It will be interesting to see next year, and over the medium and longer term, how the statistics will pan out. Will the Minister give a commitment to monitor the situation over the next year, and explain in more detail how he intends to evaluate the role of the ombudsman through the recession into economically better times, and how that office performs over the medium term? I would welcome the Minister’s comments on that.

Fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog, nid oes rheswm dros fod yn hunan-fodlon. Mae’r adroddiad yn adlewyrchu’r ffaith fod pobl yn fwy parod i gwyno, ond mae yna hefyd gwynion i’w gwneud. Bydd yn ddiddorol gweld beth fydd yr ystadegau’n ei ddangos flwyddyn nesaf, a thros y tymor canolig a’r tymor hwy. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi ymrwymiad i fonitro’r sefyllfa dros y flwyddyn nesaf, ac esbonio’n fanylach sut mae’n bwriadu gwerthuso rôl yr ombwdsmon trwy’r dirwasgiad ac i mewn i gyfnodau gwell yn economaidd, a sut mae’r swydd honno’n perfformio dros y tymor canolig? Byddwn yn croesawu sylwadau’r Gweinidog ar hynny.

3.50 p.m.

Chris Franks: I also congratulate the team on its hard work. It has resolved a high number of cases that were presented to the ombudsman, despite an increase in the number of complaints. However, there is concern that the highest proportion of complaints relate to health, in particular continuing healthcare funding by the former local health boards. We remain convinced that, yet again, county councils and county borough councils are the source of by far the majority of complaints. We note that housing and antisocial behaviour is still an unfortunate and prominent feature in complaints. There was an increase in the level of complaints that the ombudsman received last year, which was previously explained as the result of members of the public becoming aware of the role of the ombudsman, but should that not have stabilised by now in terms of the levels of complaints that the ombudsman has received? As the greatest proportion of complaints relates to county councils, should we be concerned that this reflects on the delivery of public services? I consider most public services that we provide to be something to be proud of, but these figures show that we must not be complacent.

Chris Franks: Yr wyf fi hefyd yn llongyfarch y tîm ar ei waith caled. Mae wedi datrys cyfran uchel o achosion a gyflwynwyd i’r ombwdsmon, er gwaethaf y cynnydd yn nifer y cwynion. Fodd bynnag, mae yna bryder fod y gyfran uchaf o gwynion yn ymwneud ag iechyd, yn enwedig ariannu gofal iechyd parhaus gan yr hen fyrddau iechyd lleol. Yr ydym yn dal wedi ein hargyhoeddi mai cynghorau sir a chynghorau bwrdeistref sirol yw ffynhonnell mwyafrif llethol y cwynion o bell ffordd unwaith eto. Sylwn fod tai ac ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol yn dal yn nodwedd anffodus ac amlwg yn y cwynion. Cafwyd cynnydd yn lefel y cwynion a ddaeth i law’r ombwdsmon y llynedd, ac esboniwyd gynt fod hynny am fod y cyhoedd yn dod yn ymwybodol o rôl yr ombwdsmon. Ond oni ddylai hynny fod wedi sefydlogi erbyn hyn o ran lefelau’r cwynion y mae’r ombwdsmon wedi’u cael? Gan fod y gyfran fwyaf o gwynion yn ymwneud â chynghorau sir, a ddylem fod yn pryderu bod hynny’n adlewyrchu ar ddarparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus? Credaf y dylem ymfalchïo yn y rhan fwyaf o’r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus a ddarparwn, ond y mae’r ffigurau hyn yn dangos ei bod yn rhaid inni beidio â bod yn hunan-fodlon.

It is also of concern that there is an increase in the public interest reports issued; most of these related to delays in consideration of reviews of applications for continuing healthcare by the former local health boards. It would be interesting to hear a comment on that. The ombudsman is reported to have met Assembly Government officials to try to find a solution. It would be appreciated if we could have a progress report on that particular matter.

Mae’n peri pryder hefyd fod cynnydd yn nifer yr adroddiadau am fudd cyhoeddus; mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r rhain yn ymwneud ag oedi wrth ystyried adolygiadau o geisiadau am ofal iechyd parhaus gan yr hen fyrddau iechyd lleol. Byddai’n ddiddorol clywed eich sylwadau ar hynny. Dywedir bod yr ombwdsmon wedi cyfarfod â swyddogion Llywodraeth y Cynulliad i geisio dod o hyd i ateb. Byddem yn gwerthfawrogi cael adroddiad am y cynnydd sydd wedi’i wneud ar y mater penodol hwnnw.

Michael German: I will start by echoing the last sentence of the ombudsman’s introduction to his report, in which he congratulates his predecessor, Adam Peat. I add my congratulations to Adam Peat, particularly for the honour that was awarded to him, because he did a singularly brilliant job in public service in Wales, as has been recognised.

Michael German: Dechreuaf trwy adleisio’r frawddeg olaf yng nghyflwyniad yr ombwdsmon i’w adroddiad, lle mae’n llongyfarch ei ragflaenydd, Adam Peat. Yr wyf finnau am ategu hyn a llongyfarch Adam Peat, yn enwedig am yr anrhydedd a gafodd, oherwydd gwnaeth waith ardderchog ym maes gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru, fel sydd wedi ei gydnabod.

We also welcome this report, as it clearly demonstrates a commitment to openness and transparency in government, which are the bywords of good governance. It is significant to note that 70 of the complaints received by the ombudsman relate to the Welsh Assembly Government directly or to Welsh Assembly Government bodies. The Public Services Ombudsman for Wales deserves our thanks, as do his staff, for their hard work in dealing with often complex and demanding cases. I note the movement towards a one-stop shop, which seeks to streamline the process of people arriving at the door with a complaint and being signposted. It is an ambition that will be achieved. The Minister referred to this project last year, when he spoke about a version that he was committed to. I hope that he will give us a timescale as to when we will see a fully implemented one-stop shop, so that we can see these citizen-centred services made as easily accessible as possible to as many people as possible and have a streamlined complaints procedure in place.

Yr ydym hefyd yn croesawu’r adroddiad hwn, gan ei fod yn dangos yn glir ymrwymiad i lywodraeth agored a thryloyw, sy’n hollbwysig mewn llywodraethu da. Mae’n bwysig sylwi bod 70 o’r cwynion a ddaeth i law’r ombwdsmon yn ymwneud yn uniongyrchol â Llywodraeth y Cynulliad neu â chyrff a noddir gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad. Mae Ombwdsmon Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus Cymru a’i staff yn haeddu ein diolch am eu gwaith caled wrth ymdrin ag achosion sy’n aml yn gymhleth ac yn anodd. Sylwaf ar y symudiad tuag at gael siop un stop, sy’n ceisio symleiddio’r broses lle bydd pobl yn dod i’r drws gyda chwyn ac yn cael eu cyfeirio i’r man iawn. Mae’n uchelgais a gaiff ei gwireddu. Cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog at y prosiect hwn y llynedd, pan soniodd am fersiwn yr oedd wedi ymrwymo iddo. Gobeithio y bydd yn rhoi amserlen inni yn nodi pryd y byddwn yn gweld siop un stop sy’n gwbl weithredol, fel y bydd y gwasanaethau hyn, sy’n canolbwyntio ar y dinesydd, mor hygyrch ag sy’n bosibl i gynifer o bobl ag sy’n bosibl, a bod gennym weithdrefn gwyno syml ar waith.

Success cannot be simply measured by the number of cases dealt with and successfully completed, or by the length of time that it takes for decisions to be taken. We can take the example of our petitions system, where it takes some time for some things to be determined. It is not unusual for petitions that come to the National Assembly to take 12 months to be completed. We cannot be too target focused in what we do; targets are important, but it is also important to check and verify the quality of the services being provided and it is essential for the consumer—the member of public who is approaching the ombudsman—to feel that they are being dealt with efficiently, fairly and effectively, and to be satisfied with the service.

Mae mesur llwyddiant yn fwy cymhleth na chyfrif nifer yr achosion y deliwyd â hwy a’u datrys yn llwyddiannus, neu ystyried yr amser a gymer i wneud penderfyniadau. Gallwn gymryd ein system ddeisebau fel enghraifft, lle mae’n cymryd cryn amser i gael penderfyniad ar rai pethau. Nid yw’n anghyffredin i ddeisebau sy’n dod i law’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol gymryd 12 mis i’w cwblhau. Ni allwn roi gormod o bwys ar dargedau wrth weithio; mae targedau’n bwysig, ond y mae’n bwysig hefyd inni wirio ansawdd y gwasanaethau sy’n cael eu darparu, ac y mae’n hanfodol i’r defnyddiwr—sef yr aelod o’r cyhoedd sy’n mynd at yr ombwdsmon—deimlo’i fod yn cael ei drin mewn modd effeithlon, teg ac effeithiol, a’i fod yn fodlon â’r gwasanaeth.

I would like to ask the Minister about the 129 complaints that were out of jurisdiction. The range of cases that the ombudsman can investigate is fairly narrow and a number of the maladministration cases referred to the ombudsman fell outside of his competence to investigate. Is the Minister prepared to conduct a review of the kinds of cases that are referred to see whether those that fall outside the ombudsman’s jurisdiction are being dealt with appropriately or, possibly, to consider widening of the powers of the public services ombudsman?

Hoffwn holi’r Gweinidog am y 129 o gwynion nad oeddent o fewn awdurdodaeth. Mae ystod yr achosion y gall yr ombwdsmon ymchwilio iddynt yn eithaf cul, ac nid oedd yn gallu ymchwilio i nifer o’r achosion o gamweinyddu a gyfeiriwyd ato. A yw’r Gweinidog yn barod i wneud adolygiad o’r mathau o achosion a gaiff eu cyfeirio, i weld a yw’r rheini’n nad ydynt yn dod dan awdurdodaeth yr ombwdsmon yn cael eu trin yn briodol, neu a yw’n barod, o bosibl,  i ystyried ehangu pwerau’r ombwdsmon gwasanaethau cyhoeddus?

I will return to that matter later. We now know that, as was expected, a significant number of the complaints in the report relate to local authorities: 979 out of 1,952. That is consistent with previous years. However, as local authorities are the most direct providers of public services, does the Minister believe that they are taking on board the lessons to be learned from other local authorities? I am pleased that the Minister for Social Justice and Local Government is listening to this, because, of course, it is also an issue for him. When a public interest report is issued, what assurance do we have that local authorities look at it, note the messages emerging from it, and put their own houses in order before the same happens to them? Perhaps, again, that is relevant to the ombudsman’s powers.

Dof yn ôl at y mater hwnnw’n ddiweddarach. Gwyddom erbyn hyn fod nifer sylweddol o’r cwynion yn yr adroddiad yn ymwneud ag awdurdodau lleol, fel y disgwyliwyd: 979 allan o 1,952. Mae hynny’n gyson â blynyddoedd blaenorol. Fodd bynnag, gan mai awdurdodau lleol sy’n darparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn fwyaf uniongyrchol, a yw’r Gweinidog o’r farn eu bod yn ystyried y gwersi sydd i’w dysgu oddi wrth awdurdodau lleol eraill? Yr wyf yn falch fod y Gweinidog dros Gyfiawnder Cymdeithasol a Llywodraeth Leol yn gwrando ar hyn, oherwydd mae’n fater hefyd iddo yntau, wrth gwrs. Pan gaiff adroddiad ei gyhoeddi am fudd cyhoeddus, pa sicrwydd sydd gennym fod awdurdodau lleol yn edrych arno, yn nodi’r negeseuon sy’n codi ohono, ac yn rhoi trefn ar eu tŷ eu hunain cyn i’r un peth ddigwydd iddynt hwy? Efallai fod hynny, eto, yn berthnasol i bwerau’r ombwdsmon.

In the debate on this matter on 12 November 2008, in response to a question from Peter Black, the Minister said that he would reflect upon the issue, and discuss it with colleagues. He was hopeful that there might be scope for the National Assembly itself to look at this issue and take it forward. I wonder, in conclusion, whether the Minister has reflected on that matter, and what steps he has taken to consider whether there should be an increase in the ombudsman’s powers, and whether the National Assembly, or the Welsh Assembly Government, or both together, should take this matter forward so that we can see that our Public Services Ombudsman for Wales is given the tools to do the job that he is clearly meant to do?

Yn y ddadl ar y mater hwn ar 12 Tachwedd 2008, mewn ymateb i gwestiwn gan Peter Black, dywedodd y Gweinidog y byddai’n ystyried y mater ac yn ei drafod gyda chydweithwyr. Yr oedd yn gobeithio y gallai fod cyfle i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ei hun edrych ar y mater hwn a gweithredu arno. Wrth gloi, ysgwn i a yw’r Gweinidog wedi ystyried y mater hwnnw,  a pha gamau y mae wedi’u cymryd i ystyried a ddylid cynyddu pwerau’r ombwdsmon, ac a ddylai’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, neu’r ddau gyda’i gilydd, weithredu ar y mater hwn fel y gallwn weld bod Ombwdsmon Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus Cymru yn cael yr offer i wneud y gwaith y mae’n amlwg y bwriedir iddo’i wneud?

Andrew Davies: I thank all Members who have taken part and asked questions this afternoon. I echo Mike German’s thanks to Adam Peat, and his congratulations to him on his honour.

Andrew Davies: Yr wyf am ddiolch i bob Aelod sydd wedi cymryd rhan ac wedi gofyn cwestiynau y prynhawn yma. Yr wyf yn adleisio diolch Mike German i Adam Peat, a’i longyfarchiadau iddo am ei anrhydedd.

As Nick Ramsay said, it is difficult to know whether the increase in complaints is the result of increased dissatisfaction with services, or the result of increased awareness. Compared with the total number of transactions between citizens and service providers, the number of complaints is very small. However, it was clear from the 'Living in Wales’ survey, which had a sample of 7,500 people, that a lack of awareness of the various complaints procedures, and a lack of confidence that complaints will be taken seriously—which relates to a point that Mike German made—is an area of concern. That is why, to ensure greater transparency and to open up access, I have asked the ombudsman to consider establishing a signposting service. We do not know at this stage, Mike, whether that will go ahead. I know that the ombudsman, in submitting his budget to the Finance Committee, gave an assessment of how much the service would cost, but it has not been agreed whether it will definitely go ahead, and therefore I cannot give you a date. I am in discussions with him.

Fel y dywedodd Nick Ramsay, mae’n anodd gwybod a yw nifer y cwynion wedi cynyddu oherwydd bod pobl yn fwy anfodlon â’r gwasanaethau, ynteu oherwydd bod mwy o bobl yn ymwybodol o’r gwasanaeth. O ystyried yr holl drafodion rhwng dinasyddion a darparwyr gwasanaeth, mae nifer y cwynion yn fach iawn. Fodd bynnag, yr oedd yn glir o’r arolwg 'Byw yng Nghymru’, a oedd wedi defnyddio sampl o 7,500 o bobl, fod diffyg ymwybyddiaeth o’r amrywiol weithdrefnau cwyno, a diffyg hyder y byddai cwynion yn cael eu cymryd o ddifrif—sy’n ymwneud â phwynt a wnaed gan Mike German—yn faes sy’n peri pryder. Dyna pam, er mwyn sicrhau mwy o dryloywder a gwneud y gwasanaeth yn fwy hygyrch, yr wyf wedi gofyn i’r ombwdsmon ystyried sefydlu gwasanaeth cyfeirio. Nid wyddom eto, Mike, a fydd hynny’n digwydd. Gwn fod yr ombwdsmon, wrth gyflwyno’i gyllideb i’r Pwyllgor Cyllid, wedi rhoi asesiad o faint y byddai’r gwasanaeth yn ei gostio, ond ni chafwyd cytundeb a fydd y gwasanaeth yn cael ei sefydlu’n bendant, ac felly ni allaf roi dyddiad ichi. Yr wyf yn trafod gydag ef.

On the point about whether his powers should be broadened, I felt that it was important, given that Peter Tyndall has taken over from Adam Peat, that he be allowed a certain time in which to become familiar with the service and get a feel for the range of powers at his disposal before we had a discussion about whether more powers would be required. I meet him regularly, and I will be discussing that with him.

Ar y pwynt a ddylai gael rhagor o bwerau, yr oeddwn yn teimlo’i bod yn bwysig, o gofio bod Peter Tyndall wedi cymryd drosodd wrth Adam Peat, iddo gael amser i ddod yn gyfarwydd â’r gwasanaeth a chael syniad o’r ystod o bwerau sydd ganddo cyn inni drafod a fyddai angen iddo gael rhagor o bwerau. Byddaf yn cyfarfod ag ef yn rheolaidd, a byddaf yn trafod hynny gydag ef.

The other point that you made is very important, and that is to what extent local authorities across Wales are taking on board lessons learned from the various reports and recommendations that the ombudsman makes. This goes to the heart of how we raise the quality and standards of service delivery right across Wales. I see the role of the ombudsman as being a key piece of the jigsaw.

Mae’r pwynt arall a wnaethoch yn bwysig iawn, sef i ba raddau y mae awdurdodau lleol ar draws Cymru’n dysgu gwersi o’r amrywiol adroddiadau ac argymhellion y mae’r ombwdsmon yn eu cyflwyno. Mae hyn yn ganolog i’r modd yr ydym yn gwella ansawdd a safonau wrth ddarparu gwasanaethau ar draws Cymru gyfan. Yr wyf yn ystyried bod rôl yr ombwdsmon yn ddarn allweddol yn y jig-so hwnnw.

4.00 p.m.

I have undertaken a review of the various service improvement functions in Wales—organisations such as the National Leadership and Innovation Agency for Healthcare and the work that the Welsh Local Government Association and a range of others are doing. Again, the story is of too much complexity and confusion in provision and the need for greater streamlining. We are finding that many local authorities are not following the 'adopt or justify’ principle of adopting best practice in service delivery or justifying why they are not doing it. Therefore, it is a very important question, and I think that the response would be patchy in terms of one local authority taking on board the lessons learned from the reports by the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales.

Yr wyf wedi gwneud adolygiad o’r amrywiol swyddogaethau gwella gwasanaethau yng Nghymru—sefydliadau megis yr Asiantaeth Genedlaethol Arwain ac Arloesi mewn Gofal Iechyd, a’r gwaith y mae Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru ac ystod o gyrff eraill yn ei wneud. Unwaith eto, sonnir am ormod o gymhlethdod a dryswch a bod angen  mwy o symleiddio. Yr ydym yn gweld nad yw nifer o awdurdodau lleol yn dilyn yr egwyddor 'mabwysiadu neu gyfiawnhau’ arfer gorau wrth ddarparu gwasanaethau, neu gyfiawnhau pam nad ydynt yn gwneud hynny. Felly, mae’n gwestiwn pwysig iawn, a chredaf y byddai’r ymateb yn anghyson o ran bod un awdurdod lleol yn derbyn y gwersi a ddysgir o’r adroddiadau gan Ombwdsmon Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus Cymru.

Chris Franks raised the issue about local authorities and health receiving the largest number of complaints. That is not surprising given that they deliver, overwhelmingly, the largest number of services—ranging from health to social services, housing, planning and others—and if you add them all up it is not surprising that they attract the most complaints. Coming back to the point that I made at the beginning, if you look at the number of complaints compared with the number of transactions or contacts that citizens have with public services in Wales, the number of complaints is a small. Nevertheless, as I said in my opening remarks, that is no reason for complacency. The work of the public services ombudsman is vital in helping to raise the standards, not just in individual local authorities or services, but right across public services in Wales.

Cododd Chris Franks y mater mai awdurdodau lleol ac iechyd sy’n cael y nifer mwyaf o gwynion. Nid yw hynny’n syndod o gofio mai hwy sy’n darparu’r nifer mwyaf o wasanaethau o bell ffordd—ystod sy’n amrywio o iechyd i wasanaethau cymdeithasol, tai, cynllunio a gwasanaethau eraill—ac os rhowch y rhain i gyd at ei gilydd nid yw’n syndod mai hwy sy’n cael y nifer mwyaf o gwynion. I ddod yn ôl at y pwynt a wneuthum ar y dechrau, os edrychwch ar nifer y cwynion o’u cymharu â nifer y trafodion neu’r cysylltiadau rhwng dinasyddion a gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru, mae nifer y cwynion yn fach. Er hynny, fel y dywedais yn fy sylwadau agoriadol, nid yw hynny’n rheswm dros fod yn hunan-fodlon. Mae gwaith yr ombwdsmon gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn hanfodol wrth helpu codi’r safonau, nid yn unig mewn awdurdodau lleol neu wasanaethau unigol, ond ar draws y gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru.

Y Llywydd: Y cwestiwn yw a ddylid derbyn adroddiad blynyddol Ombwdsman Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus Cymru. A oes unrhyw wrthwynebiad? Gwelaf nad oes. Yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 7.35, felly, caiff y cynnig ei dderbyn.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion agreed.

Janice Gregory: I move that

Janice Gregory: Cynigiaf fod

the National Assembly for Wales:

yn nodi adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cymunedau a Diwylliant 'Hyrwyddo Celfyddydau a Diwylliant Cymru ar Lwyfan y Byd’ a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 15 Gorffennaf 2009. (NDM4321)

I propose that the National Assembly for Wales notes the report of the Communities and Culture Committee on promoting Welsh arts and culture on the world stage. Art and culture are created by people, yet simultaneously shape us as people. They are an expression of the interconnected nature of human beings in our societies. In recognising such, I would like to begin by thanking my fellow committee members for their contribution towards the production of this report, and to express our gratitude to all the varied witnesses who gave evidence to our inquiry, and whose insights were extremely valuable to us in our deliberations.

Cynigiaf fod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn nodi adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cymunedau a Diwylliant ynghylch hyrwyddo celfyddydau a diwylliant Cymru ar lwyfan y byd. Caiff celfyddyd a diwylliant eu creu gan bobl, ond ar yr un pryd maent yn ein llunio fel pobl. Maent yn fynegiant o natur gydgysylltiedig bodau dynol yn ein cymdeithasau. Wrth gydnabod hynny, hoffwn ddechrau drwy ddiolch i’m cyd-aelodau ar y pwyllgor am eu cyfraniad at gynhyrchu’r adroddiad hwn, a hoffwn fynegi ein gwerthfawrogiad i’r holl amrywiol dystion a roddodd dystiolaeth i’n hymchwiliad. Yr oedd eu dealltwriaeth yn hynod werthfawr inni yn ein trafodaethau.

Wales has much to be proud of in its arts and culture, and their effective promotion on the world stage has the potential to help us build bridges and forge relationships with people from all over the world, opening up new opportunities for trade, business and learning. I am therefore pleased that, in responding to our report, the Welsh Government has fully accepted six of our 11 recommendations, and accepted the remaining five in part or in principle. In particular, I am pleased that it fully agreed with our first recommendation that the Welsh Government refreshes its strategic framework to promote Wales on the international stage.

Mae gan Gymru lawer i fod ymfalchio ynddo yn ei chelfyddydau a’i diwylliant, a gallai mynd ati’n effeithiol i’w hyrwyddo ar lwyfan y byd ein helpu i adeiladu pontydd a meithrin perthynas â phobl o bob cwr o’r byd, gan esgor ar gyfleoedd newydd ar gyfer masnach, busnes a dysgu. Yr wyf yn falch, felly, fod Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, wrth ymateb i’n hadroddiad, wedi derbyn chwech o’n 11 o argymhellion yn llwyr ac wedi derbyn y pump sy’n weddill yn rhannol neu mewn egwyddor. Yn benodol, yr wyf yn falch ei bod wedi cytuno’n llwyr â’n hargymhelliad cyntaf, sef y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru adnewyddu ei fframwaith strategol ar gyfer hyrwyddo Cymru ar y llwyfan rhyngwladol.

In our inquiry, our witnesses agreed that there are structures already in place to promote Welsh arts and culture abroad. However, they also commented that the arts and culture landscape is complex and cluttered, and that it is difficult to make sense of it, particularly if you are an arts practitioner or company helping to deliver Wales’s aspirations. I therefore consider that the Government’s acceptance that the time is right for it to review its strategic framework for promoting Wales on the international stage is a positive step. I would be grateful if the Minister could provide us with detail on the envisaged timescales for this review.

Yn ein hymchwiliad, cytunodd ein tystion fod strwythurau eisoes ar gael i hyrwyddo celfyddydau a diwylliant Cymru dramor. Fodd bynnag, nodent hefyd fod y dirwedd o ran y celfyddydau a diwylliant yn gymhleth ac yn anhrefnus a’i bod yn anodd gwneud synnwyr ohoni, yn enwedig os ydych yn ymarferwr neu’n gwmni celfyddydol sy’n helpu gwireddu dyheadau Cymru. Felly, yr wyf yn ystyried bod y ffaith fod y Llywodraeth yn derbyn mai dyma’r amser iddi adolygu ei fframwaith strategol ar gyfer hyrwyddo Cymru ar y llwyfan rhyngwladol yn gam cadarnhaol. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallai’r Gweinidog ddarparu manylion inni am yr amserlenni a ragwelir ar gyfer yr adolygiad hwn.

I also welcome the Government’s acceptance of our recommendation that it, along with the Arts Council of Wales and Wales Arts International, should collaborate to take maximum advantage of available funding to support Welsh arts and culture abroad. I am pleased that the Minister’s response indicated that the Arts Council of Wales and the British Council are committed to providing effective feedback on how they go about achieving this aim. I would welcome any further detail the Minister can provide in future on such feedback.

Yr wyf hefyd yn croesawu’r ffaith fod y Llywodraeth yn derbyn ein hargymhelliad y dylai, ynghyd â Chyngor Celfyddydau Cymru a Chelfyddydau Rhyngwladol Cymru, gydweithio er mwyn manteisio cymaint ag sy’n bosibl ar yr arian sydd ar gael i gefnogi celfyddydau a diwylliant Cymru dramor. Yr wyf yn falch fod ymateb y Gweinidog wedi dangos bod Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru a’r Cyngor Prydeinig wedi ymrwymo i roi adborth effeithiol am y ffordd y byddant yn cyflawni’r nod hwn. Byddwn yn croesawu unrhyw fanylion pellach y gall y Gweinidog eu darparu yn y dyfodol am adborth o’r fath.

Similarly, I am pleased that the Minister has accepted our fifth recommendation and asked the Arts Council of Wales to explore sources of support, whether from individuals, businesses or charities, that would complement the Welsh Government’s grant in aid to the council. Again, I would welcome any further detail the Minister can provide in future on its success in pursuing this aim.

Yn yr un modd, yr wyf yn falch fod y Gweinidog wedi derbyn ein pumed argymhelliad ac wedi gofyn i Gyngor Celfyddydau Cymru archwilio ffynonellau cymorth, boed gan unigolion, busnesau neu elusennau, a fyddai’n ategu cymorth grant Llywodraeth Cymru i’r cyngor. Unwaith eto, byddwn yn croesawu unrhyw fanylion pellach y gall y Gweinidog eu darparu yn y dyfodol am lwyddiant y cyngor wrth geisio cyflawni’r nod hwn.

Furthermore, I welcome the Minister’s comments in response to our eighth recommendation that greater co-operation and co-ordination will improve the efforts of our literary agencies, just as it will bring benefits to our cultural organisations more broadly. In his response to this recommendation, the Minister also commented that further work would be needed by the Arts Council of Wales to take forward work on the establishment of a Wales centre for translation—a 'translator’s house.’ I would be grateful if the Minister could provide further detail on this work and anticipated timescales for its completion.

Also to be welcomed is the Government’s decision to accept our recommendation that the Arts Council of Wales and Wales Arts International could explore how they might improve the proactive marketing of their services to engage arts practitioners. In our report, we commented that the communications and marketing of Wales Arts International, for example, could be improved through the use of presentations, open days and newsletters. I was therefore pleased that the Minister commented in his response that the Arts Council of Wales and Wales Arts International have agreed that the effectiveness of their communications should be reviewed. Again, I would be grateful if the Minister could outline when and how these reviews will take place.

Yn ogystal, dylid croesawu penderfyniad y Llywodraeth i dderbyn ein hargymhelliad y gallai Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru a Chelfyddydau Rhyngwladol Cymru ystyried sut y gallent fod yn fwy rhagweithiol wrth farchnata’u gwasanaethau er mwyn ymwneud ag ymarferwyr celfyddydol. Yn ein hadroddiad, nodwyd y gellid gwella dulliau cyfathrebu a marchnata Celfyddydau Rhyngwladol Cymru, er enghraifft, drwy ddefnyddio cyflwyniadau, diwrnodau agored a llythyrau newyddion. Felly, yr oeddwn yn falch fod y Gweinidog wedi nodi yn ei ymateb fod Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru a Chelfyddydau Rhyngwladol Cymru wedi cytuno y dylid adolygu effeithiolrwydd eu modd o gyfathrebu. Unwaith eto, byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallai’r Gweinidog amlinellu pryd a sut y bydd yr adolygiadau hyn yn digwydd.

In relation to our final recommendation, I am pleased that the Welsh Government has accepted that it would be a lost opportunity if artists were prevented from promoting their work abroad because of a lack of practical advice and support. In our report, we considered that a central source of information for artists in Wales could be helpful in addressing this issue and that diplomatic support could help artists to raise a profile abroad and smooth their path through customs. Consequently, we recommended that Wales Arts International provide a support service aimed at providing advice and diplomatic assistance to help artists to address the practical difficulties of promoting and taking their work abroad.

O ran ein hargymhelliad olaf, yr wyf yn falch fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn y byddai cyfle’n cael ei golli pe na bai modd i artistiaid hyrwyddo’u gwaith dramor oherwydd diffyg cyngor a chefnogaeth ymarferol. Yn ein hadroddiad, ystyriwyd y gallai ffynhonnell wybodaeth ganolog ar gyfer artistiaid yng Nghymru fod yn ddefnyddiol i fynd i’r afael â’r mater hwn, ac y gallai cymorth diplomyddol helpu artistiaid i godi eu proffil dramor a hwyluso’u llwybr drwy’r tollau. O ganlyniad, argymhellwyd  y dylai Celfyddydau Rhyngwladol Cymru ddarparu gwasanaeth cymorth gyda’r nod o gynnig cyngor a chymorth diplomyddol i helpu artistiaid i ymdrin â’r anawsterau ymarferol o hyrwyddo’u gwaith a mynd ag ef dramor.

In its response, the Welsh Government argued that the responsibility for providing diplomatic support to artists should rest with the Foreign Office. On this basis, I would be grateful if the Minister could clarify whether he would accept that Wales Arts International, given its technical expertise and knowledge in this field and the development of its pilot project PRACTICS, could provide valuable support to the Foreign Office in performing this role. I would also be grateful if he would clarify whether he would make representations to the Foreign Office towards its working with Wales Arts International at such a practical level, rather than primarily at a corporate strategy level.

Yn ei hymateb, dadleuodd Llywodraeth Cymru mai’r Swyddfa Dramor a ddylai fod yn gyfrifold am ddarparu cymorth diplomyddol i artistiaid. Ar sail hynny, byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallai’r Gweinidog egluro a fyddai’n derbyn y gallai Celfyddydau Rhyngwladol Cymru, o ystyried ei wybodaeth a’i arbenigedd technegol yn y maes hwn, a datblygiad ei brosiect peilot PRACTICS, gynnig cymorth gwerthfawr i’r Swyddfa Dramor wrth gyflawni’r rôl hon. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar hefyd pe bai’n egluro a fyddai’n barod i gyflwyno sylwadau i’r Swyddfa Dramor i’w hannog i weithio gyda Chelfyddydau Rhyngwladol Cymru ar lefel mor ymarferol, yn hytrach nag ar lefel strategaeth gorfforaethol yn bennaf.

In conclusion, there is clearly a great deal to welcome in the Welsh Government’s response to our report. Wales already hosts, and is involved in, a wide range of major cultural events that have the potential to promote its arts and culture to millions of people internationally. It is critical that we utilise such opportunities and provide Wales’s artists with the support they need to promote our country to best effect.

I gloi, mae’n amlwg fod llawer i’w groesawu yn ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i’n hadroddiad. Mae Cymru eisoes yn cynnal ystod eang ac yn ymwneud ag ystod eang o ddigwyddiadau diwylliannol mawr sydd â’r potensial i hyrwyddo celfyddydau a diwylliant y wlad i filiynau o bobl yn rhyngwladol. Mae’n hollbwysig inni ddefnyddio cyfleoedd o’r fath a darparu’r cymorth y mae ar artistiaid Cymru ei angen i hyrwyddo ein gwlad yn y ffordd fwyaf effeithiol posibl.

Y Gweinidog dros Dreftadaeth (Alun Ffred Jones): Diolch i Janice fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Cymunedau a diwylliant am ei sylwadau agoriadol. Yr oedd adroddiad y pwyllgor ar hyrwyddo celfyddydau a diwylliant Cymru ar lwyfan y byd yn un diddorol ac yn un a seiliwyd ar dystiolaeth gadarn, ac yr oeddwn yn falch o allu cyflwyno tystiolaeth i’r pwyllgor.

The Minister for Heritage (Alun Ffred Jones): I thank Janice as the Chair of the Communities and Culture Committee for her opening comments. The committee’s report on promoting Welsh art and culture on the world stage was an interesting one, which was based on sound evidence, and I was happy to provide oral evidence to the committee

O ran ateb y cwestiynau a ofynnodd Janice y prynhawn yma, yr wyf yn gobeithio gallu cyhoeddi datganiad ar ddiwylliant yn y flwyddyn newydd a fydd yn rhoi rhai o’r ymatebion yn eu cyd-destun. Bydd datblygiadau pellach yn cael eu cyhoeddi yn y Cynulliad maes o law.

In answer to some of the questions which Janice posed this afternoon, I hope to be able to make a statement on culture in the new year that will set out some of the responses in context. Further developments will be announced in the Assembly in due course.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y cyfle i drafod y gwaith o hyrwyddo celfyddydau a diwylliant Cymru ar lwyfan y byd. Yn sgîl hynny, gallwn hyrwyddo ein gwlad ar lwyfan y byd; rhaid bod sylfeini cadarn wedi eu gosod yma yng Nghymru. Yr ydym am weld gweithiau celfyddydau arloesol o’r radd flaenaf a fydd yn ein helpu i wneud ein marc dramor.

4.10 p.m.

Mae hyn yn golygu bod yn rhaid inni ddarparu’r cyd-destun cywir i’n hartistiaid a’n crefftwyr er mwyn iddynt ddatblygu, gweithio a chreu.

This means that we must provide the context in which our artists and craftspeople can develop, work and create.

Nid rhywbeth ymylol mo’r celfyddydau. Maent yn greiddiol i’r gwaith o addysgu ein pobl ifanc a chodi eu dyheadau, ac maent yn greiddiol i’r gwaith o adfywio rhai o’n hardaloedd mwyaf anghenus. Maent yn allweddol i’n heconomi, ac maent yn greiddiol i’n hymdrechion i ddatblygu diwydiannau creadigol rhagorol yng Nghymru. Hefyd, maent yn greiddiol i dwristiaeth ddiwylliannol—marchnad sy’n dod yn fwyfwy pwysig.

Mae Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru yn amcangyfrif y cynhyrchir £3 o incwm arall am bob £1 y mae’n ei fuddsoddi yn y sefydliadau sy’n derbyn cyllid refeniw ganddo. Mae’r sefydliadau hyn yn cyflogi dros 6,500 o bobl ac maent yn ganolog i sector diwydiannau creadigol Cymru—sector sy’n werth dros £1 biliwn i economi Cymru. Fel y dywed slogan cyngor y celfyddydau: cenedl fach, celfyddyd fawr.

Mae’n rhaid inni hwyluso’r cyfleoedd i fynd â’n celfyddydau a’n diwylliant dramor, neu hyd yn oed y cam syml o fynd â hwy dros Glawdd Offa. Mae hyn yn golygu sicrhau asiantaethau effeithiol, sy’n cydweithio’n agos â’r cymunedau celfyddydol i rannu gwybodaeth a chyfleoedd. Golyga hyn hefyd weithio’n gydlynol—neges yr wyf yn ei phwysleisio yn barhaus. Mae’n berthnasol i adrannau Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru a sefydliadau celfyddydol, ac mae hefyd yn berthnasol i awdurdodau lleol yn rhinwedd yr ymrwymiad yn 'Cymru’n Un’ i osod dyletswydd statudol ar awdurdodau lleol i hyrwyddo diwylliant ac annog partneriaethau a fydd yn darparu profiadau diwylliannol o ansawdd, ond a fydd hefyd yn helpu i gefnogi diwylliant yn genedlaethol a rhyngwladol.

From huge endeavours, like our presence at the Washington Smithsonian Folklife Festival, to the current exhibition of works belonging to the National Museum’s Davies sisters’ collection, from Turner to Cezanne, which is touring the USA this winter; and to individual actions, such as the National Dance Company Wales programme this autumn in Chongqing, China, there is a great deal going on. The National Museum Wales and National Library of Wales are active in developing international links. Through exhibitions, loans, events, research, conferences, and in other ways, they seek to promote the culture and heritage of Wales across the world. Let us not forget the international reputation and profile of the Welsh National Opera, and Academi—the literary arm of the Arts Council of Wales—is also involved in a number of international exchanges and activities.

Mae llawer iawn yn digwydd, o ymdrechion enfawr megis ein presenoldeb yng Ngŵyl Bywyd Gwerin Smithsonian yn Washington, i’r arddangosfa bresennol o waith yng nghasgliad y chwiorydd Davies yn yr Amgueddfa Genedlaethol, From Turner to Cézanne, sy’n mynd ar daith o amgylch yr Unol Daleithiau y gaeaf hwn; ac i weithredoedd unigol, megis rhaglen Cwmni Dawns Cenedlaethol Cymru yr hydref hwn yn Chongqing, Tsieina. Mae Amgueddfa Cymru a’r Llyfrgell Genedlaethol wrthi’n datblygu cysylltiadau rhyngwladol. Drwy arddangosfeydd, benthyciadau, digwyddiadau, ymchwil, cynadleddau, ac mewn ffyrdd eraill, maent yn ceisio hyrwyddo diwylliant a threftadaeth Cymru ledled y byd. A pheidiwn ag anghofio am enw da a phroffil rhyngwladol Opera Cenedlaethol Cymru, ac y mae Academi—cangen lenyddol Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru—hefyd yn ymwneud â nifer o deithiau cyfnewid a gweithgareddau rhyngwladol.

Clearly, this is not a good time for us to be launching initiatives with hefty cost implications, but I am convinced that we can implement many of the recommendations, whether in full or at least in part, at a reasonable cost. As the report notes, much can be achieved through effective use of electronic media. The People’s Collection, as an accessible online resource, will enable anyone from anywhere to interact with our culture, to learn about Wales and be encouraged to know more. What is required is commitment and enthusiasm.

Wrth gwrs, nid yw hwn yn amser da inni fod yn lansio mentrau sydd â goblygiadau sylweddol o ran cost, ond yr wyf yn argyhoeddedig y gallwn weithredu llawer o’r argymhellion, yn llwyr neu o leiaf yn rhannol, am gost resymol. Fel y mae’r adroddiad yn ei nodi, gellir cyflawni llawer drwy ddefnyddio cyfryngau electronig yn effeithiol. Bydd Casgliad y Bobl, fel adnodd hygyrch ar-lein, yn galluogi unrhyw rai mewn unrhyw le i ryngweithio â’n diwylliant, dysgu am Gymru, a chael eu hannog i wybod mwy. Yr hyn y mae ei angen yw ymrwymiad a brwdfrydedd.

We are really lucky in Wales to have the smallness of scale that permits our arts and culture bodies to remain in close contact with each other; I would hate to see duplication of efforts by different bodies. What I do see is close and effective working between the Arts Council of Wales and the British Council, which together fund Wales Arts International. That organisation puts great effort into helping our artists to get a foothold onto the World stage. We are fortunate that the British Council chooses to have an office in Cardiff.

Yr ydym yn wirioneddol ffodus yng Nghymru o fod yn gweithio ar raddfa fach, sy’n caniatau i’n cyrff celfyddydol a diwylliannol i gadw mewn cysylltiad agos â’i gilydd. Byddai’n gas gennyf weld dyblygu ymdrechion gan wahanol gyrff. Yr hyn a welaf yw cydweithio agos ac effeithiol rhwng Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru a’r Cyngor Prydeinig, sydd gyda’i gilydd yn ariannu Celfyddydau Rhyngwladol Cymru. Mae’r sefydliad hwnnw’n ymdrechu’n galed i helpu ein hartistiaid i ennill eu plwyf ar lwyfan y Byd. Yr ydym yn ffodus fod y Cyngor Prydeinig yn dewis cael swyddfa yng Nghaerdydd.

The First Minister and I gave detailed consideration to the committee’s report. Rhodri’s interest relates to his portfolio responsibilities for international relations. As Janice noted, we were happy to accept six of the recommendations in full. We have accepted all other recommendations in part or in principle. The response that I gave to the committee signals our acknowledgement that there is certainly more work to be done. Officials will be meeting to consider progress against the recommendations, and I will continue to take an active interest in this subject and report on it.

Rhoddodd y Prif Weinidog a minnau ystyriaeth fanwl i adroddiad y pwyllgor. Mae diddordeb Rhodri yn ymwneud â’i gyfrifoldebau portffolio dros gysylltiadau rhyngwladol. Fel y dywedodd Janice, yr oeddem yn fodlon derbyn chwech o’r argymhellion yn llwyr. Yr ydym wedi derbyn pob argymhelliad arall yn rhannol neu mewn egwyddor. Mae’r ymateb a roddais i’r pwyllgor yn arwydd o’n cydnabyddiaeth fod mwy o waith yn sicr i’w wneud. Bydd swyddogion yn cyfarfod i ystyried cynnydd yn erbyn yr argymhellion, a byddaf yn parhau i gymryd diddordeb byw yn y pwnc hwn ac adrodd yn ôl yn ei gylch.

Alun Cairns: I thank the Chair of the committee, the clerks and support staff for their work in providing such a comprehensive report. I must admit that I did not sit on the committee during the evidence session, but I was a member of it when the recommendations were agreed. I thought it somewhat fraudulent to press for the acceptance of my own recommendations without having heard much of the evidence, and so I make my comments in that context.

Alun Cairns: Diolch i Gadeirydd y pwyllgor, y clercod a’r staff cymorth am eu gwaith yn darparu adroddiad mor gynhwysfawr. Rhaid imi gyfaddef nad oeddwn yn aelod o’r pwyllgor yn ystod y sesiwn casglu tystiolaeth, ond yr oeddwn yn aelod ohono pan gytunwyd yr argymhellion. Yr oeddwn yn credu mai twyllodrus braidd fyddai pwyso ar bobl i dderbyn fy argymhellion fy hun heb imi glywed llawer o’r dystiolaeth, ac felly  yn gwneud fy sylwadau yn y cyddestun hwnnw.

A common theme runs through the international implications of the arts. Extremely important statements have been made, particularly those that we read in the Sunday press on how Wales is seen by many nations, and within the United Kingdom in particular. Wales’s interest in the arts and its success in that field can play a significant role in helping to educate those nations, which we depend on in various ways, be it through visits, financial assistance, or whatever it may be. The impact of the arts and the support that they provide for Wales are extremely important, in relation to not only our cultural richness and diversity, but our prosperity and the need to attract more visitors. That is the first point that I would like to underline.

Mae thema gyffredin yn rhedeg drwy oblygiadau rhyngwladol y celfyddydau. Mae datganiadau eithriadol o bwysig wedi’u gwneud, yn enwedig y rhai y byddwn yn eu darllen yn y wasg ar ddydd Sul am y ffordd  y gwelir Cymru gan bobl mewn llawer gwlad, ac yn y Deyrnas Unedig yn enwedig. Gall diddordeb Cymru yn y celfyddydau, a’i llwyddiant yn y maes hwnnw, fod yn bwysig wrth helpu addysgu’r gwledydd hynny yr ydym yn dibynnu arnynt mewn amrywiol ffyrdd, boed drwy ymweliadau, cymorth ariannol neu pa beth bynnag arall. Mae effaith y celfyddydau a’r cymorth a ddarparant  i Gymru yn eithriadol o bwysig, nid yn unig o ran cyfoeth ac amrywiaeth ein diwylliant, ond o ran ein ffyniant a’r angen i ddenu mwy o ymwelwyr. Dyna’r pwynt cyntaf yr hoffwn dynnu sylw ato.

Second, I would raise an eyebrow and question the Minister on his response to recommendation 2, that

'the Welsh Government provide a firm commitment to expediting the new culture strategy’.

In the response, the Minister states

'I have been very reluctant to rush the development of a new culture strategy for Wales. The existing strategic statement, ''Creative Future’’, has 3 years to run’.

'Rwyf wedi bod yn amharod iawn i ruthro’r gwaith o ddatblygu strategaeth ddiwylliant newydd i Gymru. Mae 3 blynedd yn weddill o’r datganiad strategaeth presennol, "Cymru Greadigol”’.

Let us not forget that we have had three Ministers for culture in the last couple of years. Is this an admission by Plaid Cymru in that it is prepared to say, 'We take everything that Labour left us’? Conversely, is it that Plaid Cymru is not prepared to put its own stamp on something in which it should have extremely strong credentials? I am not sure where the Minister stands on this; is he happy to continue with what the former administration set in place, or does he wish to put his own stamp on it? I am a little disappointed by the rationale that the Minister has offered. Although he has accepted the recommendation, I did not pick that up in the rationale. I thank the committee, its Chair and the support staff again for their efforts, and hope that the Minister will respond to the points that I have raised.

Peidied neb ag anghofio inni gael tri Gweinidog dros ddiwylliant yn ystod yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf. Ai cyfaddefiad gan Blaid Cymru yw hyn, yn yr ystyr ei bod yn barod i ddweud, 'Rydym yn cymryd popeth a adawodd y Blaid Lafur inni’? Ar y llaw arall, ai’r gwir yw nad yw Plaid Cymru’n barod i roi ei stamp ei hun ar faes y dylai fod â hygrededd eithriadol o gryf ynddo? Nid wyf yn siŵr beth yw safbwynt y Gweinidog ar hynny; a yw’n hapus i barhau’r hyn a roddodd y weinyddiaeth flaenorol ar waith, ynteu a yw am roi ei stamp ei hun arno? Yr wyf braidd yn siomedig yn y rhesymeg y mae’r Gweinidog wedi’i chynnig. Er ei fod wedi derbyn yr argymhelliad, ni sylwais ar hynny yn y rhesymeg. Diolch i’r pwyllgor, ei Gadeirydd a’r staff cymorth eto am eu hymdrechion, a gobeithio y bydd y Gweinidog yn ymateb i’r pwyntiau yr wyf wedi’u codi.

Bethan Jenkins: Croesawaf y cyfle i drafod adroddiad y pwyllgor ar hybu celfyddydau ar lwyfan byd-eang, a diolchaf i Janice Gregory am ei chadeiryddiaeth ar y pwyllgor. Hoffwn longyfarch y Gweinidog ar ei waith yn y maes hwn. Yn ystod cyfnod economaidd anodd, gall celfyddydau gael eu gwthio i un ochr, ond yma yng Nghymru yr ydym wedi gweld pwysigrwydd dod â phobl ynghyd drwy’r celfyddydau, ac mae Llywodraeth Cymru’n Un wedi bod yn gweithredu gweledigaeth glir er mwyn datblygu’r celfyddydau yng Nghymru ac ar lefel fyd-eang.

Eto i gyd, mae llawer iawn o waith i’w wneud. Dangosodd adroddiad gan Gyngor Celfyddydau Cymru, a fu yn y newyddion, fod nifer o bobl yn meddwl bod Cymru’n hen ffasiwn o hyd, a’u bod yn cysylltu Cymru gyda hanes diwydiannol yn hytrach na hanes diwylliannol. Felly, mae gwaith i’w wneud i hysbysebu Cymru ac i ddangos, ar lefel fyd-eang, pa mor wych yw Cymru. Mae angen inni werthu Cymru a’r cwbl sydd gennym i’w gynnig yn rhyngwladol; mae angen dangos ein bod ni’n genedl, a honno’n genedl gref, gan ddathlu enwogion celfyddydol Cymru megis Joseph Parry, Dylan Thomas, R.S. Thomas ac yn y blaen. Rhaid hefyd dathlu’r hyn sy’n newydd, a gynrychiolir gan bobl megis Owen Sheers a Fflur Dafydd, sy’n dangos y ffordd yn y maes rhyngwladol gan chwarae eu rhan mewn digwyddiadau rhyngwladol yn Washington er enghraifft.

Cytunaf â’r adroddiad fod angen inni edrych ar sut y gallai’r Adran Dreftadaeth weithio gyda phortffolios eraill er mwyn hybu’r celfyddydau yn rhyngwladol, gan edrych yn benodol ar sut y gallai weithio gyda phortffolio Ieuan Wyn Jones yn y cyd-destun economaidd. Rhaid i wahanol sefydliadau weithio fwyfwy gyda’i gilydd i sicrhau nad oes cymhlethdod yng nghyd-destun ceisio am grantiau neu hybu Cymru ar lefel fyd-eang. Dywedodd Urdd Gwneuthurwyr Cymru fod angen:

'a more joined-up funding structure, in which all funding organisations work as one or pull in the same direction.’

Cytunaf fod angen edrych ar hynny eto.

4.20 p.m.

Nododd Menna Richards o’r BBC fod angen i wahanol fudiadau gweithio gyda’i gilydd i sicrhau eu bod yn gwneud y gorau o’u doniau pan ânt dramor. Er enghraifft, pe bai’r theatr genedlaethol yn mynd i Efrog Newydd, dylai weithio gyda sectorau arall—y sector datblygu economaidd efallai—er mwyn cynnal mwy nag un digwyddiad yn y ddinas honno, a thu hwnt, a dangos beth sydd gan Gymru i’w gynnig ar nifer o lefelau gwahanol. Credaf taw 'piggybacking’ oedd y term a ddefnyddiodd Menna Richards.

Cytunaf â’r hyn a ddywedasoch ynglŷn â datblygu brand Cymru. Dywedodd Andrew Green o’r llyfrgell genedlaethol fod angen sicrhau bod Wales.com yn hybu Cymru a bod gennym frand clir. Pwrpas Wales.com yw darparu gwybodaeth i’r rheini sy’n ymweld â Chymru o wledydd eraill. Trafododd y pwyllgor ffyrdd o ganiatáu i artistiaid ddefnyddio Wales.com fel adnodd i hybu eu gwaith yn allanol ac i ddod o hyd i fwy o gyfleoedd dramor. Nid wyf yn siŵr ein bod ni wedi mynd i’r afael â’r hyn a ystyria’r pwyllgor a’r Llywodraeth yw potensial Wales.com. Yn ogystal â hynny, pwysleisiodd Andrew Green bwysigrwydd datblygu '.cym’ hefyd fel adnodd ychwanegol i hybu Cymru yn rhyngwladol.

I agree with what you said about developing a Welsh brand. Andrew Green from the national library said that we need to ensure Wales.com is used to promote Wales and that we have a clear brand. The purpose of Wales.com is to provide information to those who visit Wales from other countries. The committee discussed ways in which artists could use Wales.com as a resource to promote their work externally and to find opportunities abroad. I am not sure that we have got to grips with what the committee and Government consider to be the potential of Wales.com. In addition, Andrew Green emphasised the importance of the development of '.cym’ as an additional resource to promote Wales on an international level.

In talking to artists working at grassroots level we heard that they struggle to pay business rates and to find studios where they can create their work in the first place, let alone displaying those works on a world stage. Therefore, I should like to see the Minister working with Ieuan Wyn Jones to see whether there are more grants available to those working in the arts, so that they are supported and do not have to worry about their ability to take and display their work in other countries.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. Will you wind up, please?

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. A wnewch chi ddirwyn i ben, os gwelwch yn dda?

Bethan Jenkins: Yr oedd yn ddiddorol clywed Peter Finch yn dweud ei fod yn dod ag artistiaid i Gymru o Fosnia, er enghraifft, ond nid oes cyd-destun o safbwynt pam maent yn dod yma. Weithiau, nid oes cynulleidfa fawr i’r digwyddiadau hynny a gynhelir. Felly, mae’n bwysig inni gydlynu popeth a chael cyd-destun i’r gefeillio sy’n digwydd rhwng Cymru a gwledydd eraill.

Bethan Jenkins: It was interesting to hear Peter Finch say that when he brings artists from Bosnia to Wales, for example, there is no context as to why they come here. Sometimes the numbers attending those events ar not very large. Therefore, it is important that we co-ordinate everything and ensure that the twinning which happens between Wales and other countries has a context.

Eleanor Burnham: Yr wyf yn croesawu’r cyfle i drafod ymchwil y pwyllgor am fod y pwnc hwn yn amserol iawn ac yn bwysig i bawb yng Nghymru. Hoffwn ddiolch i bawb am eu cymorth a’u mewnbwn i drafodaethau’r pwyllgor. Hoffwn hefyd ddiolch i’r Gweinidog, oherwydd gwn fod y materion hyn o dan y lach a gwn fod yntau’n ymwybodol o’r her yng nghyswllt y materion hyn.

Trist oedd darllen erthygl yn y papur newydd echdoe am agwedd nifer o bobl y tu allan i Gymru tuag at ein cenedl. Mae’n peri loes i ni i gyd i feddwl bod canfyddiad mor wael gan rai pobl am Gymru. Felly, mae hwn yn fater pwysig a fyddai’n caniatáu inni i godi ymwybyddiaeth am Gymru ar draws y byd.

It was sad to see a newspaper article the day before yesterday about the attitude of many people outside Wales towards our nation. It is of grave concern to us all that some people have such a poor perception of Wales. Therefore, this is an important area that will enable us to raise awareness of Wales throughout the world.

We face the challenge of promoting our country. Wales is a wonderful country and we have talented people. We are all aware of people such as Bryn Terfel and Katherine Jenkins, who have been excellent champions for Wales.

We have a long way to go to overcome the perceptions that a minority of people outside Wales have about our country. Some of these people will never have been to Wales. Therefore, anything that we do abroad needs far more work. There was a BBC News report about potential visitors describing Wales as 'old-fashioned’ and 'unfriendly’; I find that horrifying because I cannot imagine that anyone is friendlier than us. We have to get that message across.

Mae gennym ffordd hir i fynd i oresgyn y canfyddiadau sydd gan leiafrif o bobl y tu allan i Gymru am ein gwlad. Nid yw rhai o’r bobl hyn erioed wedi bod i Gymru. Felly, mae angen mwy o ymdrech o lawer mewn unrhyw beth a wnawn dramor. Cafwyd adroddiad ar wasanaeth newyddion y BBC am ymwelwyr posibl yn disgrifio Cymru fel lle 'hen ffasiwn’ ac 'anghyfeillgar’; mae hynny’n frawychus yn fy marn i, oherwydd ni allaf ddychmygu bod neb yn fwy cyfeillgar na ni. Rhaid inni drosglwyddo’r neges honno.

According to an important source, visitors to Walt Disney World in Florida—which receives in the region of 10 million to 17 million visitors per year—can visit a representation of the United Kingdom at the world showcase at the Epcot theme park. Apparently, Scotland is well represented, with the usual array of tartans and shortbread, perfumes and jewellery, and there are obvious connections to royalty, which many, if not all, people believe are important. Apparently, Wales is represented by love-spoon necklaces on one side of a very small display carousel. This is the honest truth, since my source is one of my members of staff and she has seen it recently. It is horrifying to think that that is all that represents Wales. I know many business people who have been to America. America is an important showcase. I cannot recall the statistics about how many people live there, but only about 10 per cent of Americans have passports. Therefore, if they are not coming to us, we have to go to them. This is an important aspect of what we are not doing right, and it is disappointing.

Yn ôl ffynhonnell bwysig, gall ymwelwyr â Walt Disney World yn Fflorida—sy’n cael tua 10 i 17 miliwn o ymwelwyr bob blwyddyn—ymweld â chynrychiolaeth o’r Deyrnas Unedig yn sioe arddangos y byd ym mharc thema Epcot. Mae’n debyg y caiff yr Alban ei chynrychioli’n dda gyda’r arddangosfa arferol o dartan a theisen frau, persawr a gemwaith, ac y mae cysylltiadau amlwg â’r teulu brenhinol y bydd llawer o bobl, os nad pawb, yn credu eu bod yn bwysig. Mae’n debyg bod Cymru’n cael ei chynrychioli gan fwclis llwyau caru ar un ochr i garwsél arddangos bach iawn. Dyna’r gwir yn onest, oherwydd un o aelodau fy staff yw fy ffynhonnell, ac y mae wedi gweld yr arddangosfa’n ddiweddar. Mae’n frawychus meddwl mai dyna’r cyfan sy’n cynrychioli Cymru. Gwn am lawer o bobl fusnes sydd wedi bod yn America. Mae America yn lle arddangos pwysig. Ni allaf gofio’r ystadegau ynghylch faint o bobl sy’n byw yno, ond tua 10 y cant yn unig o Americanwyr sydd â phasbort. Felly, os nad ydynt hwy’n dod atom ni, rhaid i ni fynd atynt hwy. Mae hon yn agwedd bwysig ar yr hyn nad ydym yn ei wneud yn iawn, ac y mae’n bechod.

I know that Wales Arts International is doing a good job, and the British Council is to be commended as it is supporting it. However, we know that there is much more to be done. I am pleased about the recommendations that have been accepted and that five have been partly accepted. Can the Minister tell us exactly what can be done in this hour of need, when we are so disadvantaged economically? How can he ensure that Wales’s profile is raised? 'Partnership working’ are the buzz words. Local authorities are cash-strapped but are doing their best. A couple of months ago, as the Minister knows, Pontcysyllte had the most fantastic day, organised by the local authority. It is now a UNESCO world heritage site, which, in itself, is fantastic. All those kinds of issues and places are important to our position on the world stage.

Gwn fod Celfyddydau Rhyngwladol Cymru yn gwneud gwaith da, a dylid canmol y Cyngor Prydeinig am ei gynorthwyo. Fodd bynnag, gwyddom fod mwy o lawer i’w wneud. Yr wyf yn falch o’r argymhellion sydd wedi’u derbyn, ac yn falch fod pump wedi’u derbyn yn rhannol. A all y Gweinidog ddweud wrthym beth yn union y gellir ei wneud yn y cyfynggyngor hwn, a ninnau dan gymaint o anfantais yn economaidd? Sut y gall sicrhau bod proffil Cymru’n cael ei godi? 'Gweithio mewn partneriaeth’ yw’r geiriau sy’n ffasiynol ar hyn o bryd. Mae awdurdodau lleol yn brin o arian, ond maent yn gwneud eu gorau. Rai misoedd yn ôl, fel y gŵyr y Gweinidog, cafodd Pontcysyllte ddiwrnod gwych wedi’i drefnu gan yr awdurdod lleol. Mae’n un o safleoedd treftadaeth y byd UNESCO bellach, ac y mae hynny ynddo’i hun yn wych. Mae materion a lleoedd o’r fath i gyd yn bwysig i’n safle ar lwyfan y byd.

How are local authorities expected to do this work? I mention Gwynedd, as you represent part of Gwynedd, Minister. The council is already considering selling off its old buildings because it does not have enough money to do its best. What are we not doing right as regards the marketing of Wales on the world stage? We had some important information and testimony from many experienced people. I do not think that we are getting it right. You have a huge challenge ahead and I hope that you can discuss some of these challenges with us.

Mark Isherwood: As someone who was a member of the committee throughout the process, I also thank the Chair, the clerks and all the witnesses. In the Minister’s written paper to the committee, he said that,

Mark Isherwood: Fel un a oedd yn aelod o’r pwyllgor drwy gydol y broses, yr wyf fi hefyd yn diolch i’r Cadeirydd, y clercod a’r holl dystion. Ym mhapur ysgrifenedig y Gweinidog i’r pwyllgor, dywedodd,

'Work to develop a more strategic approach to the challenge of putting Wales on the map is led by the European and External Affairs Division in the Department of the First Minister.’

I note with some concern the written evidence to the committee by Frances Medley, who said that,

'What is missing is an over arching approach to internationalisation.’

The National Library of Wales said,

Dywedodd y Llyfrgell Genedlaethol y dylai Llywodraeth y Cynulliad,

'a comprehensive strategy should be prepared by the Assembly Government.’

Academi said that,

'We do not appear to have a co-ordinated approach to how we represent ourselves beyond our borders.’

Therefore, I have noted the Minister’s responses in which he states that there have been developments and changes in a number of areas that impact upon the application of the international framework document produced by the Welsh Government in 2004 and that he accepts that the time is right for the Welsh Government to review the framework and consider a more appropriate one for the present time. That is a positive and encouraging response.

I also note that he says that he intends to publish a revised strategic statement to make his ambitions for the heritage portfolio clear. He has given a remit to the Arts Council of Wales that requires it to work collaboratively with other Assembly Government sponsored bodies and Welsh Government departments. I also note that he has asked the Arts Council of Wales to explore sources of support that would complement the Welsh Government’s grant aid to the council. Of course, that will be more problematic in the current economic climate, but I hope that it produces dividends in the future.  

Gwelaf hefyd ei fod yn dweud ei fod yn bwriadu cyhoeddi datganiad strategol diwygiedig i egluro’i uchelgeisiau ar gyfer y portffolio treftadaeth. Mae wedi rhoi cylch gwaith i Gyngor Celfyddydau Cymru gan ofyn iddo gydweithio â chyrff eraill a noddir gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad ac adrannau Llywodraeth Cymru. Sylwaf hefyd ei fod wedi gofyn i Gyngor Celfyddydau Cymru archwilio ffynonellau cymorth a fyddai’n ategu cymorth grant Llywodraeth Cymru i’r cyngor. Wrth gwrs, bydd hynny’n fwy o broblem yn yr hinsawdd economaidd bresennol, ond gobeithio y bydd yn dwyn ffrwyth yn y dyfodol.

I note that the Minister says that he will consider what detailed action plans are appropriate and achievable,

'to identify specific opportunities such as those created by touring Welsh arts companies and individuals, to create international links and promote Wales abroad.’

4.30 p.m.

He says that he agrees that the effectiveness of the communications between the Arts Council of Wales and Wales Arts International needs to be reviewed, and that the Arts Council of Wales itself acknowledged that funding and other issues represent obstacles to artists and arts organisations taking their work abroad. I also fully accept his statement that the most appropriate body to provide diplomatic assistance to artists is the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

In his evidence to the committee, Professor Scott, vice-chancellor of Glyndŵr University stated the following.

'On one side there is the need for Wales to establish an international reputation for itself in the arts. This is achieved mainly through the provision and promotion of national facilities such as the National, Urdd and International Eisteddfodau, the Welsh National Opera’.

Ar y naill law, mae angen i Gymru sefydlu enw da rhyngwladol iddi’i hun ym maes y celfyddydau. Caiff hynny ei gyflawni’n bennaf drwy ddarparu a hyrwyddo cyfleusterau cenedlaethol megis yr Eisteddfod Genedlaethol, Eisteddfod yr Urdd, yr Eisteddfod Ryngwladol, ac Opera Cenedlaethol Cymru.

'It is very rarely the other way around—they very rarely come to us because they have their own agenda, missions and vision for where they are going. If it aligned more closely with the universities, I would be much more comfortable…It seems that we are pulling in two different directions, but we are actually going in the same direction.’

Anaml iawn y mae fel arall—anaml iawn y byddant hwy’n dod atom ni, oherwydd mae ganddynt eu hagenda, eu cenhadaeth a’u gweledigaeth eu hunain ar gyfer y cyfeiriad y maent yn mynd iddo. Pe bai’n cyd-fynd yn nes â’r prifysgolion, byddwn yn fwy cyfforddus o lawer...Ymddengys ein bod yn tynnu i ddau gyfeiriad gwahanol, ond yr ydym mewn gwirionedd yn mynd i’r un cyfeiriad.

He highlighted the mutually beneficial partnerships that they have, for example, exhibitions from Wales going to Polish universities and Polish universities putting on exhibitions in Wrexham. There are similar partnerships with Denmark and Scandinavia. He said that that was a vital element of their work with the arts. He also noted that advisory groups, based on a spread of organisation representation, need to be better co-ordinated. His colleague highlighted the work that they had been doing with Newport City Council’s sports and leisure services, the Riverfront Theatre and Arts Centre, and the museum and art galleries. He suggested that they develop a cultural consortium across Newport. That stresses the importance of education to this agenda.

Tynnodd sylw at y partneriaethau sydd ganddynt, sydd o fudd i bawb, er enghraifft, arddangosfeydd o Gymru yn mynd i brifysgolion yng Ngwlad Pwyl a phrifysgolion Gwlad Pwyl yn cynnal arddangosfeydd yn Wrecsam. Mae yna bartneriaethau tebyg â Denmarc a Llychlyn. Dywedodd fod hynny’n elfen hanfodol o’u gwaith gyda’r celfyddydau. Sylwodd hefyd fod angen i grwpiau cynghori, ar sail cynrychiolaeth eang o sefydliadau, fod yn fwy cydlynol. Tynnodd ei gydweithiwr sylw at y gwaith yr oeddent wedi bod yn ei wneud gyda gwasanaethau chwaraeon a hamdden Cyngor Dinas Casnewydd, Theatr a Chanolfan Gelfyddydau Glan yr Afon, a’r amgueddfa a’r orielau celf. Awgrymodd y dylent ddatblygu consortiwm diwylliannol ar draws Casnewydd. Mae hynny’n pwysleisio pwysigrwydd addysg i’r agenda hon.

I note that the new National Theatre Wales was announced last week and that it is to receive funding. I point out that Wales already has a national English-language theatre, based in Mold: Clwyd Theatr Cymru. The evidence given to committee by a representative of Volcano Theatre stated that he was not sure whether Clwyd Theatr Cymru, for example, had the remit to tour internationally. He said that he was almost certain that it does not. I should declare that I am the husband of the chair of Clwyd Theatr Cymru and, therefore, I can say that he was incorrect. As Professor Scott, the vice-chair of the theatre, stated in his evidence,

Sylwaf fod Theatr Genedlaethol newydd Cymru wedi’i chyhoeddi yr wythnos diwethaf, ac y bydd yn cael arian. Tynnaf sylw at y ffaith fod gan Gymru eisoes theatr genedlaethol Saesneg, yn yr Wyddgrug: Clwyd Theatr Cymru. Dywedwyd yn y dystiolaeth a roddwyd i’r pwyllgor gan gynrychiolydd Cwmni Theatr Volcano nad oedd yn siŵr a oedd gan Clwyd Theatr Cymru, er enghraifft, gylch gorchwyl i deithio’n rhyngwladol. Dywedodd ei fod bron yn sicr nad oedd. Dylwn ddatgan fy mod yn ŵr i gadeirydd Clwyd Theatr Cymru, a gallaf ddweud, felly, ei fod yn anghywir. Fel y dywedodd yr Athro Scott, isgadeirydd y theatr, yn ei dystiolaeth,

'I just want to say that one of the disadvantages of the break-up of the county of Clwyd was that the arts became isolated among the unitary authorities, which resulted in a diminution of funding for Clwyd Theatr Cymru, for example. It also fragmented the whole cohesion of it. In the north east, you look at…this wonderful theatre that we have, which is now so old that it is creaking…and I just do not know how Terry Hands and the company put on such internationally brilliant performances’.

I will conclude, Minister, by calling on you to ensure that taking this agenda forward involves all parts of Wales, all corners and regions, including our centres of excellence in the north east.

Yr wyf am gloi, Weinidog, drwy alw arnoch i sicrhau y bydd y broses o ddatblygu’r agenda hon yn cynnwys pob rhan o Gymru, pob cornel a rhanbarth, gan gynnwys ein canolfannau rhagoriaeth yn y gogledd-ddwyrain.

The Minister for Heritage (Alun Ffred Jones): Janice has asked for detailed timetables on several issues and I undertake to write to her with those. I can tell Janice that my officials are chairing a follow-on meeting next Tuesday that will involve Wales Arts International and the British Council. I will be meeting a member of the board of the British Council soon as well.

Y Gweinidog dros Dreftadaeth (Alun Ffred Jones): Mae Janice wedi gofyn am amserlenni manwl ar gyfer sawl mater, ac addawaf ysgrifennu ati gyda’r rheini. Gallaf ddweud wrth Janice y bydd fy swyddogion yn cadeirio cyfarfod dilynol ddydd Mawrth nesaf, a fydd yn cynnwys Celfyddydau Rhyngwladol Cymru a’r Cyngor Prydeinig. Byddaf yn cyfarfod ag aelod o fwrdd y Cyngor Prydeinig cyn hir hefyd.

Nid wyf yn credu bod gennyf ddigon o amser i ymateb i bob pwynt. Fodd bynnag, dywedodd Alun Cairns fod angen imi roi fy stamp fy hun ar y maes hwn. Y gwir amdani, Alun, yw bod 'Cymru’n Un’ wedi diweddaru amcanion y ddogfen 'Cymru Greadigol’. Enghraifft o hynny yw’r hyn yr ydym newydd ei glywed, sef bod cwmni theatr genedlaethol Saesneg newydd ei greu. Cafodd sylw yn y cyfryngau Prydeinig, yn anarferol—er eu bod wedi dangos eu hanwybodaeth affwysol o Gymru unwaith eto yn eu cwestiynau. Nid oes angen dogfen drwchus a thargedau diddiwedd. Mae angen i bawb ddeall pwysigrwydd y maes hwn o ran Cymru a’i delwedd. Rhaid gweld beth sydd angen ei wneud i hwyluso’r broses o fynd â’r newyddion da hyn allan o Gymru, ond hefyd sicrhau bod seiliau cadarn yng Nghymru cyn y gallwn wneud hynny yn llwyddiannus ym mhob maes.

I do not think time allows me to respond to every point made. However, Alun Cairns said that I need to put my own stamp on this field. The truth of the matter, Alun, is that 'One Wales’ has updated the objectives in 'Creative Future’. We have just heard an example of that, in that a new English-language national theatre company has been established. Unusually, it was mentioned in the British media—even though, once again, their questions revealed their dismal lack of knowledge of Wales. We do not need a long document with endless targets. Everyone needs to understand the importance of this field to Wales and its image. We must see what needs to be done to facilitate the process of spreading this good news outside Wales, but also to ensure that there are strong foundations in Wales before we can be successful in all fields.

Janice Gregory: I thank everyone who has contributed to the debate this afternoon. I extend the committee’s thanks to the clerks, the clerking team, and all the support staff who were involved in writing this report. It is true to say that all the committee members enjoyed the report and the evidence gathering involved in this inquiry. We listened carefully to the evidence presented to us by all the witnesses, and we tried to get down as far as we could to the grass roots of artists and arts practitioners so that we did not just have the usual people come to give evidence to committee. That meant that we spoke to artists and arts practitioners during our inquiry. It was they who laid the basis of this inquiry, given their frustration at the lack of collaboration—and Bethan mentioned Menna Richards’s comments about collaboration. As a committee, when we were discussing the matter, we said that much of this is not rocket science. It is just about collaboration so that, if one organisation leaves Wales to perform in the United States, all that can be spread around so that other arts practitioners have the opportunity to sell their wares.

Janice Gregory: Diolch i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu i’r ddadl y prynhawn yma. Estynnaf ddiolch y pwyllgor i’r clercod, y tîm clercio a’r holl staff cymorth a fu’n ymwneud ag ysgrifennu’r adroddiad hwn. Mae’n wir dweud bod holl aelodau’r pwyllgor wedi mwynhau ymwneud â’r gwaith o lunio’r adroddiad a chasglu’r dystiolaeth a oedd ynghlwm wrth yr ymchwiliad hwn. Buom yn gwrando’n ofalus ar y dystiolaeth a gyflwynwyd inni gan yr holl dystion, ac yn ceisio gwneud cymaint ag y gallem i gyrraedd artistiaid ac ymarferwyr ar lawr gwlad ym maes y celfyddydau, er mwyn sicrhau nad y bobl arferol yn unig a oedd yn dod i roi tystiolaeth i’r pwyllgor. Golygodd hynny ein bod wedi siarad ag artistiaid ac ymarferwyr ym maes y celfyddydau yn ystod ein hymchwiliad. Hwy a osododd y sylfaen ar gyfer yr ymchwiliad hwn, o gofio’u rhwystredigaeth oherwydd diffyg cydweithredu-a soniodd Bethan am sylwadau Menna Richards ynghylch cydweithredu. Fel pwyllgor, wrth inni drafod y mater, dywedasom fod llawer o hyn nad yw’n anodd. Mae’n golygu cydweithredu, fel y gellir rhannu’r manteision os bydd un sefydliad yn gadael Cymru i berfformio yn yr Unol Daleithiau, er mwyn i ymarferwyr eraill yn y celfyddydau gael y cyfle i’w marchnata eu hunain.

I like the slogan 'Small nation, big art’, as it is quite true, as we found when we spoke to the witnesses who came before us. I will not even begin to talk about Walt Disney World and the Disney corporation, Eleanor, and the love-spoon necklaces. Perhaps there is a message there, and we may need to take it up. If millions of people visit these theme parks, we may need to ensure that Wales is represented, and I would be happy to volunteer to check that out. I will come back with a 20-page report, if you do not want any more than that. [Laughter.] All joking aside, it is important that we celebrate the arts and culture of this wonderful nation in every corner of the world. We all have a responsibility, and not just the Minister, the First Minister, and members of the Communities and Culture Committee, to sell the message, so that we can enjoy and celebrate the arts in this country.

Yr wyf yn hoffi’r slogan 'Cenedl fach, celfyddyd fawr’, oherwydd y mae’n ddigon gwir, fel y gwelsom wrth siarad â’r tystion a ddaeth ger ein bron. Nid wyf am ddechrau sôn hyd yn oed am Walt Disney World a chorfforaeth Disney, Eleanor, a’r mwclis llwyau caru. Efallai fod neges yno, ac efallai fod angen inni wrando arni. Os oes miliynau o bobl yn ymweld â’r parciau thema hyn, efallai fod angen inni sicrhau bod Cymru’n cael ei chynrychioli, a byddwn yn fodlon gwirfoddoli i ymchwilio i hynny. Dof yn ôl ag adroddiad 20 tudalen, os nad oes eisiau mwy na hynny arnoch. [Chwerthin.] O ddifrif, mae’n bwysig inni ddathlu celfyddydau a diwylliant y genedl ryfeddol hon ym mhob cwr o’r byd. Mae cyfrifoldeb arnom bob un, nid ar y Gweinidog, y Prif Weinidog ac aelodau’r Pwyllgor Cymunedau a Diwylliant yn unig, i werthu’r neges, fel y gallwn fwynhau a dathlu’r celfyddydau yn y wlad hon.

Minister, I thank you for your answers this afternoon. As Chair, I know that my committee members will look forward to your statement in the new year and the announcement that you will make in due course. I have no doubt that we are pushing at an open door, and that you understand the advantages to Wales of its vibrant cultural life, including the economic benefits that it can bring through all sorts of initiatives and projects. With that, I thank again everyone who took the time to come to committee and all those who have participated this afternoon, as well as those who participated in the writing of the report.

Weinidog, diolch ichi am eich atebion y prynhawn yma. Fel Cadeirydd, gwn y bydd aelodau fy mhwyllgor yn edrych ymlaen at eich datganiad yn y flwyddyn newydd a’r cyhoeddiad y byddwch yn ei wneud maes o law. Nid oes gennyf amheuaeth nad ydym yn gwthio yn erbyn drws agored, a’ch bod yn deall manteision bywyd diwylliannol bywiog Cymru i Gymru, gan gynnwys y manteision economaidd y gall eu sicrhau drwy bob math o fentrau a phrosiectau. Gyda hynny, diolch eto i bawb a roddodd o’u hamser i ddod i’r pwyllgor, pawb sydd wedi cymryd rhan y prynhawn yma, yn ogystal â’r rheini a fu wrthi’n ysgrifennu’r adroddiad.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: The proposal is to note the Communities and Culture Committee’s report. Are there any objections? I see that there are none. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order No. 7.35.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion agreed.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I have selected amendment 1 in the name of Carwyn Jones, and amendment 2 in the name of Peter Black. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 yn enw Carwyn Jones, a gwelliant 2 yn enw Peter Black. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliant 2 ei ddad-ddethol.

Mark Isherwood: I move that

Mark Isherwood: Cynigiaf fod

the National Assembly for Wales:

1. notes that fewer than 2,000 people are currently receiving direct payments in Wales;

1. yn nodi bod llai na 2,000 o bobl yn cael taliadau uniongyrchol ar hyn o bryd yng Nghymru;

2. yn nodi â phryder y cynnydd araf a wnaed gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i ddatblygu’r drefn personoleiddio yng Nghymru; ac

3. calls on the Welsh Assembly Government to develop a made-for-Wales solution so that personalised services become the norm rather than the exception. (NDM4322)

3. yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cynlluniad Cymru i ddarparu ateb wedi’i deilwra’n arbennig ar gyfer Cymru lle mae gwasanaethau wedi’u personoleiddio yw’r drefn arferol yn hytrach na’r eithriad.  (NDM4322)

Today is MS Society Cymru’s partnership day, entitled Supporting Individuals to Live their Lives. Its agenda includes how direct payments work in the Welsh social care system and why we need a made-in-Wales model of personalisation. In the motion, I call on the National Assembly for Wales to note that fewer than 2,000 people currently receive direct payments in Wales, to note with concern the slow progress made by the Welsh Assembly Government to develop personalisation in Wales, and to call on the Welsh Assembly Government to develop a made-for-Wales solution, so that personalised services become the norm rather than the exception.

Mae heddiw’n ddiwrnod partneriaeth MS Cymru, a theitl y diwrnod yw Cynorthwyo Unigolion i Fyw eu Bywydau. Mae agenda’r diwrnod yn cynnwys sut mae taliadau uniongyrchol yn gweithio yn y system gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru, a pham mae arnom angen model personoleiddio wedi’i deilwra’n arbennig yng Nghymru. Yn y cynnig, galwaf ar Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru i nodi bod llai na 2,000 o bobl yn cael taliadau uniongyrchol ar hyn o bryd yng Nghymru, nodi gyda phryder y cynnydd araf a wnaed gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i ddatblygu’r drefn personoleiddio yng Nghymru, a galw ar Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i ddarparu ateb wedi’i deilwra’n arbennig ar gyfer Cymru lle mae gwasanaethau wedi’u personoleiddio yn drefn arferol yn hytrach nag eithriad.

My party believes in independent living at home, reducing inappropriate admissions to hospital, and expanding the direct payment scheme to allow people to control their own care budgets. Personalisation means thinking about care and support services in an entirely different way. It means starting with people as individuals who have strengths, preferences and aspirations, and putting them at the centre of the process to identify their needs and ensuring that it is about the what, the who, the how and the when of their support to live their lives. It requires a significant transformation of adult social care so that all systems, processes, staff and services are geared up to put people first.

Mae fy mhlaid yn credu mewn byw’n annibynnol gartref, lleihau achosion amhriodol o dderbyn pobl i’r ysbyty, ac ehangu’r cynllun taliadau uniongyrchol er mwyn galluogi pobl i reoli eu cyllidebau gofal eu hunain. Mae personoleiddio’n golygu meddwl am wasanaethau cymorth a gofal mewn ffordd hollol wahanol. Mae’n golygu dechrau drwy ystyried pobl fel unigolion sydd â chryfderau, dymuniadau a dyheadau, rhoi’r unigolion hynny wrth wraidd y broses o adnabod eu hanghenion, a sicrhau ymdrin â’r holl gwestiynau sy’n ymwneud â’r cymorth a gânt i fyw eu bywydau. Mae’n gofyn am drawsnewid gofal cymdeithasol oedolion yn sylweddol fel y bydd pob system, proses, gwasanaeth ac aelod staff yn medru rhoi pobl yn gyntaf.

4.40 p.m.

The traditional service-led approach has often meant that people have not received the right help at the right time, and have been unable to shape the kind of support that they need. Personalisation is about giving people much more choice and control over their lives, and it goes well beyond simply giving personal budgets to people eligible for council funding. Personalisation means addressing the needs and aspirations of whole communities to ensure that everyone has access to the right information, advice and advocacy to make good decisions about the support that they need. It means ensuring that people have a wider choice in how their needs are met and can access universal services, such as transport, leisure, education, housing, health and opportunities for employment, regardless of their age or disability.

Yn aml mae’r dull gweithredu traddodiadol, a arweinir gan wasanaethau, wedi golygu nad yw pobl wedi cael yr help cywir ar yr adeg gywir, ac nad ydynt wedi medru dylanwadu ar y math o gymorth y mae arnynt ei angen. Mae personoleiddio’n ymwneud â sicrhau bod pobl yn cael llawer mwy o ddewis a llawer mwy o reolaeth ar eu bywyd, ac y mae’n ymestyn ymhell y tu hwnt i roi cyllidebau personol i bobl sy’n gymwys i gael cyllid gan gynghorau. Mae personoleiddio’n golygu mynd i’r afael ag anghenion a dyheadau cymunedau cyfan er mwyn sicrhau bod pawb yn gallu cael y wybodaeth, y cyngor a’r eiriolaeth gywir i wneud penderfyniadau da ynghylch y cymorth y mae arnynt ei angen. Mae’n golygu sicrhau bod gan bobl ddewis ehangach o ran y modd y caiff eu hanghenion eu diwallu, a sicrhau eu bod yn gallu cael gwasanaethau cyffredinol megis gwasanaethau cludiant, hamdden, addysg, tai, iechyd a chyflogaeth, ni waeth beth fo’u hoed neu eu hanabledd.

Local authorities have been able to offer direct payments since the Community Care (Direct Payments) Act 1996, which for the first time offered a limited number of people the opportunity to receive support from social services in the form of money that could be spent on employing the services of an agency of an individual’s choosing. The UK Government developed an expanded direct payments system through additional legislation. In Wales, the Community Care, Services for Carers and Children’s Services (Direct Payments) (Wales) Regulations 2004 and the Community Care, Services for Carers and Children’s Services (Direct Payments) (Wales) Amendment Regulations 2006 have framed the current system.

Mae awdurdodau lleol wedi medru cynnig taliadau uniongyrchol ers i Ddeddf Gofal Cymunedol (Taliadau Uniongyrchol) 1996 ddod i rym, a oedd yn cynnig cyfle am y tro cyntaf i nifer cyfyngedig o bobl gael cymorth gan wasanaethau cymdeithasol, ar ffurf arian y gellid ei wario ar ddefnyddio gwasanaethau asiantaeth o ddewis unigolyn. Datblygodd Llywodraeth y DU system ehangach ar gyfer taliadau uniongyrchol drwy ddeddfwriaeth ychwanegol. Yng Nghymru, mae Rheoliadau Gofal Cymunedol, Gwasanaethau ar gyfer Gofalwyr a Gwasanaethau Plant (Taliadau Uniongyrchol) (Cymru) 2004 a Rheoliadau Diwygio Gofal Cymunedol, Gwasanaethau ar gyfer Gofalwyr a Gwasanaethau Plant (Taliadau Uniongyrchol) (Cymru) 2006 wedi ffurfio’r system gyfredol.

The current groups able to receive a direct payment comprise adults who have been assessed as being in need of community care services, disabled children aged between 16 and 18, including those with short-term as well as long-term needs, a person with parental responsibility for a disabled child, a disabled person with parental responsibility for a child, and carers in place of receiving carers’ services.

Mae’r grwpiau sy’n medru cael taliad uniongyrchol ar hyn o bryd yn cynnwys oedolion yr aseswyd bod arnynt angen gwasanaethau gofal cymunedol, plant anabl rhwng 16 a 18 oed, gan gynnwys y rhai sydd ag anghenion byrdymor yn ogystal ag anghenion hirdymor, unigolyn sydd â chyfrifoldeb rhiant am blentyn anabl, unigolyn anabl sydd â chyfrifoldeb rhiant am blentyn, a gofalwyr yn lle cael taliad gwasanaethau gofalwyr.

However, of the 150,000 people receiving support from local authorities as of March 2009 in Wales, only 1,991 received direct payments. Between 2005 and 2008, the number of people receiving direct payments more than doubled from 853 to 1,967 but, in the past 12 months, only an extra 24 people have registered. In England, the UK Government plans to offer everyone who receives social care support a personal budget by March 2011, while the Health Bill that is currently progressing through the UK Parliament extends direct payments to healthcare in England.

Fodd bynnag, o blith y 150,000 o bobl a gâi gymorth gan awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru ym mis Mawrth 2009, dim ond 1,991 a oedd yn cael taliadau uniongyrchol. Rhwng 2005 a 2008, gwnaeth nifer y bobl a oedd yn cael taliadau uniongyrchol fwy na dyblu, o 853 i 1,967, ond yn ystod y 12 mis diwethaf, 24 o bobl ychwanegol yn unig sydd wedi cofrestru. Yn Lloegr, mae Llywodraeth y DU yn bwriadu cynnig cyllideb bersonol i bawb sy’n cael cymorth gofal cymdeithasol, erbyn mis Mawrth 2011, tra mae’r Mesur Iechyd sy’n mynd drwy Senedd y DU ar hyn o bryd yn ymestyn taliadau uniongyrchol i ofal iechyd yn Lloegr.

MS Society Cymru is concerned that Wales is lagging behind the personalisation agenda. Direct payment gives people choice. It allows people to make more of the decisions that affect their lives. It gives more flexibility by enabling people of all ages to purchase care that suits their individual needs. It gives them the control to decide how their needs will be met, by whom and at what time. They are in control and they make arrangements directly, so that any staff whom they employ report directly to them. If there is a contract with an agency, the agency will be accountable to the individual, and not to the local authority.

Mae MS Cymru yn poeni bod Cymru ar ei hôl hi o ran yr agenda bersonoleiddio. Mae taliad uniongyrchol yn rhoi dewis i bobl. Mae’n galluogi pobl i wneud mwy o’r penderfyniadau sy’n effeithio ar eu bywydau. Mae’n sicrhau mwy o hyblygrwydd drwy alluogi pobl o bob oed i brynu gofal sy’n addas i’w hanghenion unigol. Mae’n rhoi’r rheolaeth iddynt benderfynu sut y bydd eu hanghenion yn cael eu diwallu, gan bwy a phryd. Hwy sy’n rheoli, a byddant yn gwneud trefniadau’n uniongyrchol, er mwyn i unrhyw staff a gyflogir ganddynt adrodd yn uniongyrchol iddynt hwy. Os bydd contract gydag asiantaeth, bydd yr asiantaeth yn atebol i’r unigolyn, nid i’r awdurdod lleol.

Some people may not always find social services that are flexible enough to respond to their needs, or some may feel that services lack continuity. They may find that the care worker arranged by a local authority cannot come at the time that they want. With direct payments, people can arrange for someone to come whenever it suits them.

Efallai na fydd rhai pobl bob amser yn dod o hyd i wasanaethau cymdeithasol sy’n ddigon hyblyg i ymateb i’w hanghenion, neu gall rhai deimlo bod diffyg parhad mewn gwasanaethau. Gallant weld nad yw’r gweithiwr gofal a drefnwyd gan awdurdod lleol yn gallu dod ar yr adeg a ddymunant. Gyda thaliadau uniongyrchol, gall pobl drefnu bod rhywun yn dod ar adeg sy’n gyfleus iddynt hwy.

It can be difficult for individuals to talk about their personal experiences of social care. Multiple sclerosis is one of the most common neurological conditions in Wales, and the majority of people are diagnosed with the condition between the ages of 20 and 40. More than 100,000 people are affected across the UK, and every year another 100 are diagnosed in Wales. Eighty five per cent of individuals can manage their condition with disease- modifying therapies when they are first diagnosed, but there is currently no cure, and many will eventually need help from social services.

Gall fod yn anodd i unigolion siarad am eu profiadau personol o ofal cymdeithasol. Mae sglerosis ymledol yn un o’r anhwylderau niwrolegol mwyaf cyffredin yng Nghymru, a bydd mwyafrif y bobl y ceir bod yr anhwylder arnynt yn cael eu diagnosio rhwng 20 a 40 oed. Mae’r anhwylder yn effeithio ar dros 100,000 o bobl ar draws y DU, a bob blwyddyn caiff 100 o bobl eraill eu diagnosio yng Nghymru. Gall 85 y cant o unigolion reoli eu hanhwylder â therapïau addasu clefydau wrth gael eu diagnosio gyntaf, ond nid oes modd gwella’r anhwylder ar hyn o bryd, a bydd angen help gwasanaethau cymdeithasol ar lawer yn y pen draw.

Disabled adults are more likely to want to play an active role in planning their care package and choosing their priorities. They are no longer satisfied for their care to be planned for them in a way that their parents might have accepted. Instead, they want to decide which services they receive, who offers the services, and when the services are delivered. MS Society Cymru believes that the Welsh Government should develop a made-in-Wales model of personalisation that maximises individual choice but also provides support and advice for people who do not want to manage their own budget.

Mae oedolion anabl yn fwy tebygol o fod am chwarae rôl weithredol wrth gynllunio’u pecyn gofal a dewis eu blaenoriaethau. Nid ydynt yn fodlon mwyach i’w gofal gael ei gynllunio ar eu cyfer mewn modd a fyddai wedi bod yn dderbyniol efallai i’w rhieni. Yn hytrach, maent am benderfynu pa wasanaethau a gânt, pwy sy’n cynnig y gwasanaethau hynny, a phryd y caiff y gwasanaethau eu darparu. Cred MS Cymru y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru ddatblygu model personoleiddio wedi’i deilwra’n arbennig yng Nghymru, sy’n sicrhau cymaint o ddewis ag sy’n bosibl i unigolion ond sydd hefyd yn darparu cymorth a chyngor i bobl nad ydynt am reoli eu cyllideb eu hunain.

Therefore, this motion seeks to encourage the growth of personalisation in adult social care, to encourage more people to take control of their lives. The motion seeks to expand on the work that is already being done by the Welsh Government, which already places a duty on local authorities to offer direct payments. The problem is that disabled adults are concerned that, if they choose to use direct payments, they will not receive any advice or support from local authorities and will be completely independent. In order to deliver the motion and overcome this issue, Multiple Sclerosis Society Cymru proposes that local authorities should actively support individuals to use direct payments. They have a legal obligation to offer them, but the Welsh Government should ensure that local authorities actively encourage take-up. There needs to be a consistent level of support across the 22 local authorities so that individuals do not feel that they are on their own. This needs to include training on how to be an employer and how to manage a budget, information on local providers of care and support to manage personal budgets, particularly at the start and for vulnerable groups. Individuals should be allowed to purchase services from their local authority using a direct payment.

Felly, mae’r cynnig hwn yn ceisio hybu twf personoleiddio ym maes gofal cymdeithasol oedolion, er mwyn annog mwy o bobl i reoli eu bywydau eu hunain. Mae’r cynnig yn ceisio ehangu’r gwaith a wneir esioes gan Lywodraeth Cymru, sydd eisoes yn gosod dyletswydd ar awdurdodau lleol i gynnig taliadau uniongyrchol. Y broblem yw bod oedolion anabl yn poeni na fyddant yn cael cyngor na chymorth gan awdurdodau lleol os

dewisant ddefnyddio taliadau uniongyrchol, ac y byddant yn hollol annibynnol. Er mwyn gwireddu’r cynnig a goresgyn y broblem hon, mae MS Cymru yn awgrymu y dylai awdurdodau lleol roi pob cymorth i unigolion ddefnyddio taliadau uniongyrchol. Mae rhwymedigaeth gyfreithiol arnynt i gynnig taliadau uniongyrchol, ond dylai Llywodraeth Cymru sicrhau bod awdurdodau lleol yn mynd ati i annog pobl i fanteisio arnynt. Mae angen lefel gyson o gymorth ar draws y 22 awdurdod lleol er mwyn sicrhau nad yw unigolion yn teimlo’u bod ar eu pen eu hunain. Mae angen i’r cymorth hwnnw gynnwys hyfforddiant ynghylch sut i fod yn gyflogwr a sut i reoli cyllideb, gwybodaeth am ddarparwyr gofal lleol, a chymorth i reoli cyllidebau personol, yn enwedig ar y dechrau ac ar gyfer grwpiau sy’n agored i niwed. Dylid caniatáu i unigolion brynu gwasanaethau gan eu hawdurdod lleol gan ddefnyddio taliad uniongyrchol.

I note that the charity In Control was set up as a project to find a new way of organising the social care system. The English version of In Control was born in 2003 and In Control Scotland was launched in 2007, developing self-directed support with individualised budgets improving the independent living of many people. Wrexham County Borough Council was the first local authority in Wales to link into In Control, allowing people to use the individualised budgets to deliver the services that they required in a format decided by them.

Sylwaf fod elusen In Control wedi cael ei sefydlu fel prosiect i ddod o hyd i ffordd newydd o drefnu’r system gofal cymdeithasol. Sefydlwyd fersiwn Lloegr o In Control yn 2003, a lansiwyd In Control Scotland yn 2007, gan ddatblygu cymorth hunan-gyfeiriedig, a chyllidebau unigol i wella gallu llawer o bobl i fyw’n annibynnol. Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Wrecsam oedd yr awdurdod lleol cyntaf yng Nghymru i gysylltu ag In Control, gan alluogi pobl i ddefnyddio’r cyllidebau unigol i gael y gwasanaethau yr oedd arnynt eu hangen, mewn ffurf a bennwyd ganddynt hwy.

I understand that amendment 2 tabled by the Welsh Liberal Democrats is trying to put the emphasis on allowing people to choose whether they have a direct payment or not. I commend to them the work done in Wrexham, which is led by an able Liberal Democrat council leader. However, in order to design a personalised service, you need to have direct payments. Unless the Government takes action that leads to local authorities actively increasing the number of people using direct payments, there is little incentive for councils to do it. It is almost like turkeys voting for Christmas. We therefore call on the Welsh Liberal Democrats to withdraw amendment 2.

Yr wyf yn deall bod gwelliant 2 a gyflwynwyd gan Ddemocratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn ceisio rhoi’r pwyslais ar alluogi pobl i ddewis cael taliad uniongyrchol ai peidio. Yr wyf yn cymeradwyo’r gwaith a wnaed yn Wrecsam, a gaiff ei arwain gan arweinydd cyngor medrus iawn, sy’n Ddemocrat Rhyddfrydol. Fodd bynnag, er mwyn cynllunio gwasanaeth wedi’i bersonoleiddio, mae arnoch angen taliadau uniongyrchol. Oni fydd y Llywodraeth yn cymryd camau gweithredu sy’n arwain at sefyllfa lle mae awdurdodau lleol yn mynd ati i gynyddu nifer y bobl sy’n defnyddio taliadau uniongyrchol, ni fydd fawr o gymhelliant i gynghorau weithredu. Mae bron fel cael y twrci i bleidleisio dros y Nadolig. Galwn, felly, ar Ddemocratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru i dynnu gwelliant 2 yn ôl.

In the week that marks the twentieth anniversary of the fall of the Berlin wall, this motion seeks to move social care away from the Soviet model of the state saying who cares for you, when they care for you and what they do in your home to a system that is based on personal choice. I urge all Members to support this motion and, thereby, the thousands who could benefit from being in control of the support that they need to live their lives as they choose.

Yn yr wythnos sy’n nodi ugain mlynedd ers cwymp mur Berlin, mae’r cynnig hwn yn ceisio symud gofal cymdeithasol oddi wrth y model Sofietaidd lle mae’r wladwriaeth yn dweud pwy sy’n gofalu amdanoch, pryd maent yn gofalu amdanoch, a beth maent yn ei wneud yn eich cartref, i system sydd wedi’i seilio ar ddewis personol. Anogaf bob Aelod i gefnogi’r cynnig hwn a chefnogi, drwy hynny, y miloedd o bobl a allai gael budd o reoli’r cymorth y mae arnynt ei angen i fyw eu bywydau fel y mynnant.

The Deputy Minister for Social Services (Gwenda Thomas): I move amendment 1 in the name of Carwyn Jones. Delete all after point 1 and replace with:

Y Dirprwy Weinidog dros Wasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Gwenda Thomas): Cynigiaf welliant 1 yn enw Carwyn Jones. Dileu popeth ar ôl pwynt 1 a rhoi yn ei le:

2. notes that levels of take-up of direct payments reflect the choices made by individual service users; and

2. yn nodi bod y niferoedd sy’n cael taliadau uniongyrchol yn adlewyrchu’r dewisiadau a wneir gan ddefnyddwyr gwasanaethau unigol; ac

3. endorses the Welsh Assembly Government’s policy of making direct payments available to a widening range of users, on the basis of individual preference.

3. yn cefnogi polisi Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru o sicrhau bod taliadau uniongyrchol ar gael i ystod ehangach o ddefnyddwyr ar sail dewis personol.

Peter Black: I move amendment 2 in my name. In point 3, delete all after 'solution’ and replace with:

Peter Black: Cynigiaf welliant 2 yn fy enw i. Ym mhwynt 3, dileu popeth ar ôl 'Cymru’ a rhoi yn ei le:

which offers people a genuine choice between personalised services and direct payments.’

sy’n cynnig dewis gwirioneddol i bobl rhwng gwasanaethau wedi’u personoleiddio a thaliadau uniongyrchol.’

I want to make it clear that this is an agenda that the Welsh Liberal Democrats are committed to taking seriously. As Mark said in his introduction to this debate, we would like to see an extension of direct payments, which offer a chance for those who want the opportunity to take their care into their own hands and become less of a consumer of local authority services and more a commissioner of services in their own right.

Hoffwn egluro bod hon yn agenda y mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru wedi ymrwymo i’w chymryd o ddifrif. Fel y dywedodd Mark yn ei gyflwyniad i’r ddadl hon, hoffem weld ymestyn taliadau uniongyrchol, sy’n cynnig cyfle i’r sawl sy’n dymuno bod yn gyfrifol am eu gofal eu hunain, a bod yn gomisiynwyr gwasanaethau yn eu rhinwedd eu hunain, yn hytrach na phobl sy’n defnyddio gwasanaethau awdurdodau lleol.

Our view is that what is important here is choice, which is where my concern with the motion lies. The motion seeks to make personalised services the norm, to which I have no ideological or practical objection. It has to become the norm, because that is what the majority of service users want and not because we are seeking to deliver it in that way. We need to understand that by far the most significant part of this agenda is the personalisation rather than the direct payments. I am happy to support the personalisation agenda, because it devolves power to the individual, where appropriate, rather than applying the one-size-fits-all approach taken by public services previously.

Yr hyn sy’n bwysig yma yn ein barn ni yw dewis, a dyna sy’n peri pryder i mi ynghylch y cynnig. Mae’r cynnig yn ceisio sicrhau mai gwasanaethau wedi’u personoleiddio yw’r drefn arferol, ac nid oes gennyf wrthwynebiad ideolegol nac ymarferol i hynny. Fodd bynnag, rhaid mai gwasanaethau wedi’u personoleiddio yw’r drefn arferol oherwydd mai dyna yw dymuniad y mwyafrif o ddefnyddwyr gwasanaeth, nid oherwydd mai dyna’r ffordd yr ydym ni’n ceisio’u darparu. Mae angen inni ddeall mai’r rhan bwysicaf o’r agenda hon o bell ffordd yw’r personoleiddio yn hytrach na’r taliadau uniongyrchol. Yr wyf yn fodlon cefnogi’r agenda ar bersonoleiddio oherwydd ei bod yn datganoli grym i’r unigolyn lle mae hynny’n briodol, yn lle mabwysiadu agwedd flaenorol gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, sef bod yr un math o ddull gweithredu yn addas i bawb.

4.50 p.m.

Rather than concentrate on direct payments, important though they are, there is a whole other issue around how social care is made more responsive, so that those who do not want direct payments are still able to have a significant degree of control over their lives. That will not be easy. How, for example, does that work out for residents in local authority and private sector homes who may not have an understanding of the system and how to use it? Others may have the capacity to choose what they wish to do with their week, what they want to wear and so on, but would not have the capacity to understand the choices available to them. This has to be about choice, and that choice has to be wider than just direct payments. The Welsh Liberal Democrats do not want to see preset targets for increasing the numbers of people with a direct payment, or any other form of personalised service. This is not about a numbers game, but making choice available, and that means offering alternatives and ensuring that they are legitimate options.

Yn hytrach na chanolbwyntio ar daliadau uniongyrchol, er eu bod yn bwysig, mater arall sy’n codi yw sut y gellir sicrhau bod gofal cymdeithasol yn fwy ymatebol, fel y gall y rheini nad ydynt am gael taliadau uniongyrchol barhau i reoli eu bywydau eu hunain i raddau helaeth. Ni fydd hynny’n rhwydd. Er enghraifft, sut byddai hynny’n gweithio yn achos trigolion mewn cartrefi awdurdodau lleol a chartrefi’r sector preifat, nad ydynt efallai’n deall y system nac yn deall sut i’w defnyddio? Efallai fod gan eraill y gallu i ddewis yr hyn y maent yn dymuno’i wneud â’u hwythnos, beth maent am ei wisgo, ac yn y blaen, ond na fyddai ganddynt y gallu i ddeall y dewisiadau sydd ar gael iddynt. Rhaid mai dewis yw’r brif ystyriaeth, a rhaid i’r dewis hwnnw fod yn ehangach na thaliadau uniongyrchol yn unig. Nid yw Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru am weld gosod targedau ymlaen llaw ar gyfer cynyddu nifer y bobl sy’n cael taliad uniongyrchol, nac unrhyw fath arall o wasanaeth wedi’i bersonoleiddio. Nid niferoedd sy’n bwysig yma, ond sicrhau bod dewis ar gael, ac y mae hynny’n golygu cynnig dewisiadau eraill a sicrhau eu bod yn ddilys.

One issue that has been raised with me is that those with sight difficulties are disadvantaged in the process due to having difficulty with the forms. It may be possible to get help with the forms, but surely, one of the main arguments in favour of personalised services is to encourage independence and allow people to sort their affairs out for themselves. If they are unable to start this process at the application stage, that sends out the wrong message, and may be one of the reasons why there is such a poor take-up of direct payments—not just by the blind and partially sighted, either, but also others who do not understand the process, and are not able to access it so easily.

Un mater sydd wedi’i godi gyda mi yw’r ffaith fod pobl sydd ag anawsterau gweld dan anfantais yn y broses, oherwydd eu bod yn cael trafferth gyda’r ffurflenni. Gallai fod yn bosibl cael help gyda’r ffurflenni, ond un o’r prif ddadleuon o blaid gwasanaethau wedi’u personoleiddio yw annog annibyniaeth a chaniatau i bobl roi trefn ar eu pethau drostynt eu hunain. Os ydynt yn methu dechrau’r broses hon yn ystod y cyfnod ymgeisio, caiff y neges anghywir ei chyfleu, a gall fod yn un o’r rhesymau pam mae cyn lleied o bobl yn manteisio ar daliadau uniongyrchol—nid pobl ddall a phobl rhannol ddall yn unig, ychwaith, ond eraill hefyd nad ydynt yn deall y broses, ac nad ydynt yn gallu ei defnyddio’n rhwydd.

It is fair to say that a full range of choices does not yet exist in Wales. While local authorities may be under an obligation to offer direct payments, it seems that few people are taking them up. I do not believe that anyone is of the view that they are appropriate for all those who receive local authority support at present. However, the fact that only 1.3 per cent of those who receive support do so in the form of a direct payment is clearly inadequate.

Mae’n deg dweud nad oes ystod lawn o ddewisiadau yng Nghymru hyd yma. Er y gall fod rhwymedigaeth ar awdurdodau lleol i gynnig taliadau uniongyrchol, ymddengys mai ychydig o bobl sy’n manteisio arnynt. Ni chredaf fod neb o’r farn eu bod yn briodol i bawb sy’n cael cymorth ar hyn o bryd gan awdurdodau lleol. Fodd bynnag, mae’n amlwg yn annigonol mai 1.3 y cant yn unig o’r rheini sy’n cael cymorth sy’n ein gael ar ffurf taliad uniongyrchol.

I believe that more than 1.3 per cent could benefit from personalised services, and we have to look at the barriers that stop them from doing so—for example, how are the choices communicated to them? Are these budgets appropriate for the level of care that people require? If they are unable to afford the same level of support that they would expect from the local authority, then, again, it does not become a valid choice. What the Government needs to look at, in our view, is whether, as it claims in the amendment, it is really pushing this forward and increasing access. The Minister needs to work with local authorities in Wales to ensure that choice is offered and that clients are supported in the process where necessary. It is no good having a legal obligation to offer an option if what is offered is completely unsuitable. I am not convinced that local authorities should be actively encouraging take-up, but they should make service users who are able to benefit from direct payments and from the wider personalisation agenda aware of all the options that are available to them. They should also put in place support to ensure that those people are able to access those alternatives if that is what they want. For that reason, we will not be supporting the motion or the Government amendment.

Credaf y gallai dros 1.3 y cant elwa o wasanaethau wedi’u personoleiddio, a rhaid inni edrych ar y rhwystrau sy’n atal pobl rhag gwneud hynny—er enghraifft, sut y caiff y dewisiadau eu cyfleu iddynt? A yw’r cyllidebau hyn yn briodol i lefel y gofal y mae ar bobl ei angen? Os ydynt yn methu fforddio’r un  lefel o gymorth ag y byddent yn disgwyl ei chael gan yr awdurdod lleol, yna eto nid yw’n ddewis dilys. Yr hyn y mae angen i’r Llywodraeth ei wneud, yn ein barn ni, yw edrych a ydyw, fel y mae’n honni yn y gwelliant, yn gyrru’r agenda hon yn ei blaen mewn gwirionedd ac yn cynyddu mynediad. Mae angen i’r Gweinidog weithio gydag awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru i sicrhau cynnig dewis, a sicrhau bod cleientiaid yn cael eu cynorthwyo yn y broses lle bydd angen. Nid oes diben cael rhwymedigaeth gyfreithiol i gynnig dewis os yw’r hyn a gynigir yn hollol anaddas. Nid wyf wedi fy argyhoeddi y dylai awdurdodau lleol fod yn mynd ati i annog pobl i gael taliadau uniongyrchol, ond dylent sicrhau bod defnyddwyr gwasanaethau, a all elwa o daliadau uniongyrchol ac o’r agenda bersonoleiddio ehangach, yn ymwybodol o’r holl ddewisiadau sydd ar gael iddynt. Dylent hefyd ddarparu cymorth i sicrhau bod y bobl hynny’n gallu cael y dewisiadau eraill hynny os dyna yw eu dymuniad. Am y rheswm hwnnw, ni fyddwn yn cefnogi’r cynnig na gwelliant y Llywodraeth.

Andrew R.T. Davies: I thank my colleague, Mark Isherwood, for opening this debate. One of the points that is made to me time and again when I speak to constituents is their wish to have choice, and to control the direction of travel when they are accessing services. I live in an urban region, South Wales Central, but as we move deeper into the twenty-first century, surely the agenda is about choice, and people everywhere taking control of their own destiny. I believe that this motion is about focusing the Government’s efforts on direct payments. We have heard the figures from my colleague, Mark Isherwood: yes, between 2005 and 2008 there was a significant increase in the uptake of direct payments, from around 600 or 700 applicants to 1,900, but over the last 12 months, regrettably, that figure has stalled, and only 24 have taken up the opportunity this year.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Hoffwn ddiolch i’m cydweithiwr, Mark Isherwood, am agor y ddadl hon. Un o’r pwyntiau a glywaf dro ar ôl tro wrth siarad ag etholwyr yw eu dymuniad i gael dewis, a rheoli’r cyfeiriad yr eir iddo pan fyddant yn cael mynediad i wasanaethau. Yr wyf yn byw mewn rhanbarth trefol, Canol De Cymru, ond wrth inni fynd ymhellach i mewn i’r unfed ganrif ar hugain, rhaid bod yr agenda’n ymwneud â dewis, a galluogi pobl ym mhobman i reoli eu tynged eu hunain. Credaf fod y cynnig hwn yn ymwneud â chanolbwyntio ymdrechion y Llywodraeth ar daliadau uniongyrchol. Clywsom y ffigurau gan fy nghydweithiwr, Mark Isherwood: do, rhwng 2005 a 2008, gwelwyd cynnydd sylweddol yn nifer y bobl a oedd yn cael taliadau uniongyrchol, o ryw 600 neu 700 o ymgeiswyr i 1,900, ond dros y 12 mis diwethaf, yn anffodus, mae’r ffigur hwnnw wedi aros yr un fath, a 24 yn unig sydd wedi manteisio ar y cyfle eleni.

I have heard the rhetoric from the Government frontbench, and from the coalition partners, about their aversion to direct payments. I can see that direct payments run counter to their Government-knows-best ideology, but that contradicts what we should be trying to promote in Wales, and what people in Wales are asking for, which is personalised services, and, above all, being able to have the grasp of service provision that they wish for. When you look at the direction of travel in other parts of the United Kingdom, the real worry is that we fall significanty behind other parts in trying to attract the most able and the best to provide the services that some of the most vulnerable in society require. We are all aware of the difficulty of attracting social workers and the demand on social services departments in local authorities. It is about striking a balance between the private, the voluntary and the public sectors in providing services that will mitigate the massive increase that we are going to see in the demand for care and health services. If you shut off a large part of that avenue in trying to solve the problems that Government will face in the next decade or two, we will see a great explosion of people cancelled out in terms of their ability to access services, because the state cannot provide the solution for everything.

Yr wyf wedi clywed rhethreg mainc flaen y Llywodraeth, a phartneriaid y glymblaid, am eu gwrthwynebiad i daliadau uniongyrchol. Gallaf weld bod taliadau uniongyrchol yn mynd yn groes i’w hideoleg sy’n mynnu mai’r Llywodraeth a ŵyr orau. Ond y mae hynny’n gwrthddweud yr hyn y dylem fod yn ceisio’i hyrwyddo yng Nghymru, a’r hyn y mae pobl yng Nghymru’n gofyn amdano, sef gwasanaethau wedi’u personoleiddio, ac yn anad dim, y gallu i fod â’r afael y dymunant ei chael dros y gwasanaethau a ddarperir. Wrth edrych ar y cyfeiriad yr eir iddo mewn rhannau eraill o’r Deyrnas Unedig, y pryder gwirioneddol yw ein bod ymhell y tu ôl iddynt o ran ceisio denu’r bobl orau a mwyaf galluog i ddarparu’r gwasanaethau y mae eu hangen ar rai o’r bobl fwyaf agored i niwed mewn cymdeithas. Yr ydym i gyd yn ymwybodol o anhawster denu gweithwyr cymdeithasol, a’r pwysau sydd ar adrannau gwasanaethau cymdeithasol mewn awdurdodau lleol. Mae’n golygu sicrhau cydbwysedd rhwng y sector preifat, y sector gwirfoddol a’r sector cyhoeddus wrth ddarparu gwasanaethau a fydd yn lliniaru’r cynnydd aruthrol a welwn yn y galw am wasanaethau iechyd a gofal. O gau rhan helaeth o’r llwybr hwnnw wrth geisio datrys y problemau y bydd Llywodraeth yn eu hwynebu yn y degawd neu ddau nesaf, byddwn yn gweld cynnydd sydyn ac enfawr yn nifer y bobl sy’n cael eu heithrio o ran eu gallu i gael gwasanaethau, oherwydd ni all y wladwriaeth ddarparu’r ateb i bopeth.

It is to the Westminster Government’s credit that it sees direct payments as a key way of addressing the shortfall in the ability of the state to provide these services. We should be following the lead of the Westminster Government in the clear targets that it has indicated that it wishes to develop in its social model in England. While I understand the Assembly Government—in its rhetoric and in 'One Wales’—talking about giving independence to the individual and empowering individuals and their families to take control of their lives, it is clearly not being delivered on the ground. We cannot allow that to happen, because it will be to the detriment of the service. We all know that the demands of dementia, multiple sclerosis and other illnessess, compared with the demands of 60 years ago when the welfare model was devised, have greatly increased. Although there is an increase in the provision of services, when you talk to the Multiple Sclerosis Society and to representatives of dementia charities, they say that, sadly, there is a postcode lottery in Wales and that these services are not being provided.

Mae’n glod i Lywodraeth San Steffan ei bod yn ystyried taliadau uniongyrchol fel ffordd allweddol i fynd i’r afael â’r diffyg yng ngallu’r wladwriaeth i ddarparu’r gwasanaethau hyn. Dylem fod yn dilyn esiampl Llywodraeth San Steffan o ran y targedau clir y mae wedi dangos ei bod yn dymuno’u datblygu yn ei model cymdeithasol yn Lloegr. Er fy mod yn deall Llywodraeth y Cynulliad—yn ei rhethreg ac yn 'Cymru’n Un’—pan fydd yn siarad am roi annibyniaeth i’r unigolyn a grymuso unigolion a’u teuluoedd i reoli eu bywydau, mae’n amlwg nad yw hynny’n cael ei wireddu ar lawr gwlad. Ni allwn adael i hynny ddigwydd, oherwydd bydd o afles i’r gwasanaeth. Gwyddom i gyd fod galwadau dementia, sglerosis ymledol ac afiechydon eraill wedi cynyddu’n aruthrol, o’u cymharu â’r galwadau 60 mlynedd yn ôl pan gafodd y model lles ei ddyfeisio. Er bod y gwasanaethau a ddarperir wedi cynyddu, os siaradwch â’r Gymdeithas Sglerosis Ymledol a chynrychiolwyr elusennau dementia dywedant fod loteri cod post yng Nghymru, yn anffodus, ac nad yw’r gwasanaethau hyn yn cael eu darparu.

We passionately believe that the Minister needs to address this issue and give a clear sense of direction as to where she is taking the direct payment strategy and the empowerment of individuals and their families, so that, if it is the Government’s intention in Wales to move away from supporting such a strategy, at least people will know the direction of travel. We can then move away from the philosophy of 'One Wales’, which was devised two years ago and was all about empowering the individual; it is now all but a redundant document. That will allow the Minister to move away from the one-size-fits-all approach and the state-knows-best attitude. That ideology is clearly not recognised on this side of the Chamber. I hope that, as it is MS Society Cymru Partnership Day—the event that is taking place in Senedd will crystallise the activities of the past 12 months with awards to various individuals—the Minister will give a clear direction as to where she is taking her department in developing a care model that is robust and is up to twenty-first century standards. Frankly, the current direction of travel is not suitable or fit for purpose, and will not meet the aspirations of service users here in Wales.

Yr ydym yn credu’n gryf fod angen i’r Gweinidog fynd i’r afael â’r mater hwn, a dangos yn glir i ba gyfeiriad y mae’n mynd â’r strategaeth taliadau uniongyrchol a’r broses o rymuso unigolion a’u teuluoedd, fel y bydd pobl o leiaf yn gwybod i ba gyfeiriad yr eir iddo os yw’r Llywodraeth yng Nghymru’n bwriadu ymatal rhag cefnogi strategaeth o’r fath. Yna, gallwn symud oddi wrth athroniaeth 'Cymru’n Un’, a luniwyd ddwy flynedd yn ôl ac a oedd yn canolbwyntio’n gyfan gwbl ar rymuso’r unigolyn; i bob pwrpas, mae’n ddogfen ddiangen bellach. Bydd hynny’n galluogi’r Gweinidog i symud oddi wrth yr agwedd fod yr un math o ddull gweithredu’n addas i bawb a’r agwedd sy’n mynnu mai’r wladwriaeth a ŵyr orau. Mae’n amlwg na chaiff yr ideoleg honno ei chydnabod yr ochr hon i’r Siambr. Gobeithio, gan fod heddiw’n Ddiwrnod Partneriaeth MS Cymru—bydd y digwyddiad yn y Senedd yn crynhoi gweithgareddau’r 12 mis diwethaf â gwobrau i amrywiol unigolion—y bydd y Gweinidog yn dangos yn glir i ba gyfeiriad y mae’n mynd â’i hadran o ran datblygu model gofal sy’n gadarn ac sy’n cyrraedd safonau’r unfed ganrif ar hugain. A siarad yn blaen, nid yw’r cyfeiriad yr eir iddo ar hyn o bryd yn briodol nac yn addas at y diben, ac ni fydd yn bodloni dyheadau defnyddwyr gwasanaethau yma yng Nghymru.

Joyce Watson: Where direct payments are being received, they do give people control over their own lives, by offering an alternative to local-authority-provided care; we heard about that this morning. The 2007 Government-commissioned report that surveyed direct payments in Wales highlighted many of the factors affecting the scheme uptake. Direct payments represent a cultural change as well as an operational change for service users, practitioners and local authorities alike, and a shift in responsibility from the public sector to the individual.

Joyce Watson: Mewn achosion lle ceir taliadau uniongyrchol, maent yn galluogi pobl i reoli eu bywydau eu hunain, drwy gynnig dewis arall yn lle gofal a ddarperir gan awdurdod lleol; clywsom am hynny y bore yma. Tynnwyd sylw yn yr adroddiad a gomisiynwyd gan y Llywodraeth yn 2007 ac a wnaeth arolwg o daliadau uniongyrchol yng Nghymru, at nifer o’r ffactorau sy’n effeithio ar nifer y bobl sy’n manteisio ar y cynllun. Mae taliadau uniongyrchol yn newid diwylliannol yn ogystal â newid gweithredol i defnyddwyr gwasanaethau, ymarferwyr ac awdurdodau lleol fel ei gilydd, ac y maent yn symud cyfrifoldeb oddi ar y sector cyhoeddus i’r unigolyn.

The Labour Government only introduced this scheme in 2004, so we are still in a period of transition. Direct payments will take time to bed down, particularly as the report found that take-up relies on word-of-mouth recommendations. If direct payments are to be available to a wider range of people, it is vital that the direct services that local authorities provide are still there as an alternative or back up, or supplement the services provided through direct payments. Support services need to be available to ensure that more people can feel confident in using the scheme. The idea of employing someone and taking on the responsibility of an employer is often outside people’s experience and it can put them off looking into the option of direct payments. Therefore, support is crucial.

Dim ond yn 2004 y cafodd y cynllun hwn ei gyflwyno gan y Llywodraeth Lafur, felly, yr ydym yn dal mewn cyfnod pontio. Bydd taliadau uniongyrchol yn cymryd amser i ymsefydlu, yn enwedig gan fod yr adroddiad wedi gweld bod cael pobl i fanteisio arnynt yn dibynnu ar argymhellion personol gan bobl eraill. Os bwriedir i daliadau uniongyrchol fod ar gael i ystod ehangach o bobl, mae’n hanfodol i’r gwasanaethau uniongyrchol a ddarperir gan awdurdodau lleol barhau’n ddewis arall neu’n ddewis wrth gefn, neu i ategu’r gwasanaethau a ddarperir drwy daliadau uniongyrchol. Mae angen i wasanaethau cymorth fod ar gael, i sicrhau bod mwy o bobl yn gallu teimlo’n hyderus wrth ddefnyddio’r cynllun. Mae’r syniad o gyflogi rhywun a chymryd cyfrifoldeb cyflogwr yn aml y tu hwnt i derfynau profiad pobl, a gall eu hatal rhag ymchwilio i’r dewis o gael taliadau uniongyrchol. Mae cymorth yn hollbwysig, felly.

5.00 p.m.

Practitioners, whose core responsibility is to their clients, also need to be confident in the scheme if they are to be expected to discuss it as an option with those clients. Furthermore, we should not forget that people are often quite happy with the public services that they receive and see no reason to change. In smaller communities, the range and choice of services available can be limited, which just makes direct council services more practical.

At hynny, mae angen i ymarferwyr, y mae eu cyfrifoldeb craidd at eu cleientiaid, gael hyder yn y cynllun os disgwylir iddynt ei drafod fel dewis gyda’u cleientiaid. Yn ogystal, ni ddylem anghofio bod pobl yn aml yn ddigon hapus â’r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus a gânt, ac nad ydynt yn gweld rheswm dros newid. Mewn cymunedau llai o faint, gall yr ystod a’r dewis o wasanaethau sydd ar gael fod yn gyfyngedig, sy’n golygu’n syml fod gwasanaethau cyngor uniongyrchol yn fwy ymarferol.

So, I support the Government’s policy of making direct payments available to a wider range of users, but take-up has to be based on people’s personal preferences. I would like to raise two issues. First, the requirement to have a bank account is an issue for some people. The economic slump has seen more people default on financial obligations, which may make it difficult in future for people to open accounts, and therefore to access direct payments. Secondly, in taking on the responsibilities of an employer, individuals accessing direct payments will also have to judge the suitability of the personal assistants they employ. There are obvious duty-of-care issues here, so it is important that we establish whether personal assistants are, or should be, part of the social care workforce.

Felly, yr wyf yn cefnogi polisi’r Llywodraeth o sicrhau bod taliadau uniongyrchol ar gael i ystod ehangach o ddefnyddwyr, ond rhaid i’r modd y manteisir ar y taliadau gael ei seilio ar ddymuniadau personol pobl. Hoffwn godi dau fater. Yn gyntaf, mae’r angen i gael cyfrif banc yn broblem i rai pobl. Yn sgil y wasgfa economaidd, mae mwy o bobl wedi methu â chyflawni eu rhwymedigaethau ariannol, a allai ei gwneud yn anodd yn y dyfodol i bobl agor cyfrifon, a gallu cael taliadau uniongyrchol, felly. Yn ail, wrth gymryd cyfrifoldebau cyflogwr, bydd unigolion sy’n cael taliadau uniongyrchol hefyd yn gorfod barnu addasrwydd y cynorthwywyr personol a gyflogir ganddynt. Mae materion amlwg yn codi yma ynghylch dyletswydd gofal, ac y mae’n bwysig felly inni benderfynu a yw cynorthwywyr personol yn rhan o’r gweithlu gofal cymdeithasol, ynteu a ddylent fod yn rhan ohono.

Jonathan Morgan: This debate is very important. It is important for individuals who rely on care services, many of whom are capable of taking more decisions about their care and willing to do it. It is also important for the future dynamics of what I would term 'welfare governance’ and for the shape of publicly funded care services. I firmly believe that placing the individual at the centre of the development and delivery of services is a principle that this Assembly ought to promote. The Assembly Government in particular needs to ask why such a small proportion of the 150,000 people receiving care services from local authorities are in receipt of direct payments. It is only 1.3 per cent; that is a tiny proportion of the overall number of people in receipt of care services. We have to ask why the performance on improving that number has been so lamentable.

Jonathan Morgan: Mae’r ddadl hon yn bwysig iawn. Mae’n bwysig ar gyfer unigolion sy’n dibynnu ar wasanaethau gofal, lawer ohonynt yn gallu gwneud mwy o benderfyniadau am eu gofal ac yn barod i wneud hynny. Mae hefyd yn bwysig ar gyfer dynameg yr hyn y byddwn i’n ei alw’n waith 'llywodraethu lles’ yn y dyfodol, ac ar gyfer ffurf gwasanaethau gofal a ariennir yn gyhoeddus. Credaf yn bendant fod rhoi’r unigolyn wrth wraidd gwaith datblygu a darparu gwasanaethau yn egwyddor y dylai’r Cynulliad hwn ei hyrwyddo. Mae angen i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad yn enwedig ofyn pam mae cyfran mor fach o’r 150,000 o bobl a gaiff wasanaethau gofal gan awdurdodau lleol yn cael taliadau uniongyrchol. Un pwynt tri y cant yn unig yw’r gyfran honno; mae’n gyfran eithriadol o fach o gyfanswm y bobl sy’n cael gwasanaethau gofal. Rhaid inni ofyn pam mae’r perfformiad i geisio gwella’r nifer hwnnw wedi bod mor druenus.

I would have more sympathy with the Assembly Government’s amendment on the take-up of direct payments reflecting personal choices had this figure been somewhat higher. However, with 98.7 per cent of individuals not receiving direct payments, it is clear that enough is not being done to promote the scheme.

Byddai gennyf fwy o gydymdeimlad â gwelliant Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ar y nifer sy’n defnyddio taliadau uniongyrchol ac yn adlewyrchu dewisiadau personol pe bai’r ffigur hwn wedi bod rywfaint yn uwch. Fodd bynnag, o gofio nad yw 98.7 y cant o unigolion yn cael taliadau uniongyrchol, mae’n amlwg nad oes digon yn cael ei wneud i hyrwyddo’r cynllun.

Personalisation of care promotes not just direct payments, but personal budgets and individual budgets. In England, for example, people in receipt of individual care budgets have made innovative lifestyle choices. Many individuals have decided to give their daily carer some respite time over the weekend and enjoy sports and other pastimes, using their individual care budgets to purchase season tickets for the local football club for themselves and their designated carer. Similarly, some have given their daily carer longer respite and taken themselves and their carer away on holiday, putting their individual care budgets towards the cost. We ought to be more innovative here in Wales. We are clearly not being innovative.

Yn ogystal â hyrwyddo taliadau uniongyrchol, mae personoleiddio gofal hefyd yn hyrwyddo cyllidebau personol a chyllidebau unigol. Yn Lloegr, er enghraifft, mae pobl sy’n cael cyllidebau gofal unigol wedi gwneud dewisiadau arloesol ynghylch eu ffordd o fyw. Mae nifer o unigolion wedi penderfynu rhoi rhywfaint o seibiant dros y penwythnos i’w gofalwr dyddiol, ac yn mwynhau chwaraeon a diddordebau eraill, gan ddefnyddio’u cyllidebau gofal unigol i brynu tocynnau tymor y clwb pêl-droed lleol iddynt hwy a’u gofalwr penodedig. Yn yr un modd, mae rhai wedi rhoi seibiant hwy i’w gofalwr dyddiol ac wedi mynd ar wyliau gyda’u gofalwr, gan ddefnyddio’u cyllidebau gofal unigol i dalu rhywfaint o’r gost. Dylem fod yn fwy arloesol yma yng Nghymru. Mae’n amlwg nad ydym yn arloesol.

However, my principal concern is that the Assembly Government sees an individual in receipt of care as vulnerable, incapable of making decisions or simply unwilling to do so. In my view, that is simply not the real picture. We ought to be doing more to help people to make informed decisions about the future of their care packages. I know that, for many of us, when we consider this particular problem, we think of vulnerable, elderly groups of people. Again, that simply is not the picture across Wales. For younger people living with a disability, the impact of the chance to take more control should not be underestimated. For many, the opportunity to shape their own care package, handle budgets and make decisions on what services to purchase is quite liberating. We have to look at this, not just in the context of those who are elderly, but those who are young and who may want to make more decisions.

Fodd bynnag, fy mhrif bryder yw’r ffaith fod Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn ystyried bod unigolyn sy’n cael gofal yn unigolyn sy’n agored i niwed ac nad yw’n gallu gwneud penderfyniadau, neu nad yw’n barod i wneud hynny. Yn fy marn i, nid dyna yw’r darlun gwirioneddol o gwbl. Dylem fod yn gwneud mwy i helpu pobl i wneud penderfyniadau gwybodus am ddyfodol eu pecynnau gofal. Gwn fod nifer ohonom, pan fyddwn yn ystyried y broblem arbennig hon, yn meddwl am grwpiau o bobl hŷn sy’n agored i niwed. Unwaith eto, nid dyna yw’r darlun ar draws Cymru. Yn achos pobl iau sydd ag anabledd, ni ddylid bychanu effaith y cyfle i gael mwy o reolaeth. I lawer, mae’r cyfle i ddylanwadu ar eu pecyn gofal eu hunain, trin cyllidebau a gwneud penderfyniadau ynghylch pa wasanaethau i’w prynu yn brofiad sy’n eu rhyddhau. Rhaid inni edrych ar hyn nid yn unig yng nghyd-destun pobl hŷn, ond yng nghyd-destun pobl ifanc a all fod yn dymuno gwneud mwy o benderfyniadau.

I am not saying that the Government does not have a role to play. Clearly, there is a need for guidance and support for those who might want to make those choices, but there is also a role for Government in attempting to shape the way in which the public sector responds in an environment where more people have more say over their care. At present, service planning is fairly easy as you have 98 per cent of people in receipt of care not receiving a direct payment. In fact, I think that this is one of the big consequences of greater personalisation. Ultimately, the public sector will have to be more responsive, and this will become more unpredictable, and it will certainly be trickier for the Government to design services strategically, when more people have more control over their individual budgets and care. I cannot believe, for one second, however, that the Government is happy for such a miniscule number of people to receive direct payments. 'One Wales’ itself refers to a Wales

Nid wyf yn dweud nad oes rôl gan y Llywodraeth. Mae’n amlwg fod angen arweiniad a chymorth ar gyfer y sawl a allai fod am wneud y dewisiadau hynny, ond mae gan y Llywodraeth rôl hefyd o ran ceisio dylanwadu ar y modd y mae’r sector cyhoeddus yn ymateb mewn amgylchedd lle mae gan fwy o bobl fwy o gyfle i ddweud eu dweud am eu gofal. Ar hyn o bryd, mae cynllunio gwasanaethau yn eithaf rhwydd, gan nad yw 98 y cant o’r bobl sy’n cael gofal yn cael taliad uniongyrchol. Mewn gwirionedd, credaf mai dyna fydd un o ganlyniadau mawr mwy o waith personoleiddio. Yn y pen draw, bydd yn rhaid i’r sector cyhoeddus fod yn fwy ymatebol, bydd sefyllfaoedd yn fwy anodd eu rhagweld, a bydd yn sicr yn anos i’r Llywodraeth gynllunio gwasanaethau’n strategol pan fydd gan fwy o bobl fwy o reolaeth ar eu cyllidebau unigol a’u gofal. Ni allaf gredu am eiliad, fodd bynnag, fod y Llywodraeth yn fodlon i nifer mor eithriadol o fach o bobl gael taliadau uniongyrchol. Mae 'Cymru’n Un’ ei hun yn cyfeirio at Gymru

'in which all citizens are empowered to determine their own lives’.

'lle gall pob dinesydd benderfynu ar natur eu bywydau eu hunain’.

If the Government believes in that, then we ought to see it doing more to promote a greater degree of personalisation of care. We need to offer people these chances, and we should be engaging with the charitable sector. Many organisations within the charitable sector are already developing advocacy and tailored services and guidance for those thinking about handling their own budgets. Ultimately, I cannot believe that only 1.3 per cent of those in receipt of care and needing care want direct payments and a level of personalisation. That cannot be right. I do not think that that is the true picture in Wales. It is simply that this is not being promoted strongly and productively. I urge the Government to make the personalisation of care a priority and live up to the statement in its own coalition agreement.

Os yw’r Llywodraeth yn credu yn hynny, dylem ei gweld yn gwneud mwy i hyrwyddo mwy o bersonoleiddio gofal. Mae angen inni gynnig y cyfleoedd hyn i bobl, a dylem fod yn ymwneud â’r sector elusennol. Mae nifer o fudiadau yn y sector elusennol eisoes yn datblygu eiriolaeth ac arweiniad a gwasanaethau wedi’u teilwra ar gyfer pobl sy’n ystyried trin eu cyllidebau eu hunain. Yn y pen draw, ni allaf gredu mai 1.3 y cant yn unig o bobl sy’n cael gofal ac sydd ag angen gofal arnynt sy’n dymuno cael taliadau uniongyrchol a rhywfaint o bersonoleiddio. Ni all hynny fod yn iawn. Ni chredaf mai dyna yw’r darlun cywir yng Nghymru. Yn syml, nid yw’r agenda hon yn cael ei hyrwyddo mewn modd cryf a chynhyrchiol. Anogaf y Llywodraeth i roi blaenoriaeth i bersonoleiddio gofal, a chadw at y datganiad a wnaed yn ei chytundeb clymbleidiol ei hun.

Helen Mary Jones: Direct payments can be a good option for some disabled people. It cannot be doubted that they should be available. Some of the points made in different parts of the Chamber about the support that should be available to enable people to take on the responsibility of being an employer are ones with which I would wholeheartedly agree. However, where I would differ and where I would, perhaps, have more in common with the points made by Joyce Watson and, to a certain extent, Peter Black, is that I do not believe that moving to a 100 per cent individualised budgets would serve the majority of disabled people well.

Helen Mary Jones: Gall taliadau uniongyrchol fod yn ddewis da i rai pobl anabl. Ni ellir amau na ddylent fod ar gael. Mae rhai o’r pwyntiau a wnaed mewn gwahanol rannau o’r Siambr am y cymorth a ddylai fod ar gael i alluogi pobl i ysgwyddo’r cyfrifoldeb o fod yn gyflogwr yn bwyntiau y byddwn yn cytuno’n llwyr â hwy. Fodd bynnag, byddwn yn anghytuno â hwy, ac efallai’n cytuno mwy â’r pwyntiau a wnaed gan Joyce Watson, a Peter Black i ryw raddau, o ran y ffaith nad wyf yn credu y byddai anelu at sefyllfa lle byddai gan bawb gyllidebau unigol yn fuddiol i’r mwyafrif o bobl anabl.

It is interesting that we have heard a lot in this debate—the motion itself refers to a 'made-for-Wales’ solution—about what is happening in England. In big English cities, there may be a wide range of care providers from whom disabled people might be able to choose to purchase care. That is not true in Llanelli and rural Carmarthenshire, and it is certainly not true in southern Gwynedd. [Interruption.] If Alun Cairns would like to make an intervention, I would be happy to hear from him, Deputy Presiding Officer, but I find it rather frustrating when he makes comments from a sedentary position and I am not therefore allowed by you and the Presiding Officer to respond.

Mae’n ddiddorol ein bod wedi clywed llawer yn y ddadl hon—mae’r cynnig ei hun yn cyfeirio at ateb 'wedi’i deilwra’n arbennig ar gyfer Cymru’—am yr hyn sy’n digwydd yn Lloegr. Mewn dinasoedd mawr yn Lloegr, efallai fod ystod eang o ddarparwyr gofal y gallai pobl anabl fod yn dewis prynu gofal ganddynt. Nid yw hynny’n wir yn Llanelli a chefn gwlad Sir Gaerfyrddin, ac yn bendant nid yw’n wir yn ne Gwynedd. [Torri ar draws.] Byddwn yn fodlon clywed gan Alun Cairns os hoffai wneud ymyriad, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ond yr wyf yn teimlo braidd yn rhwystredig pan fydd yn gwneud sylwadau heb sefyll, sy’n golygu nad ydych chi na’r Llywydd yn caniatáu imi ymateb.

Alun Cairns: It is interesting to hear the Member criticise the comparisons with England. Surely, devolution is meant to take us to the highest level of service, not the lowest common denominator. On that basis, if there are better levels of service elsewhere in the United Kingdom or Europe, surely we would want to learn about that. Unless we create that opportunity—

Alun Cairns: Mae’n ddiddorol clywed y Gweinidog yn beirniadu’r cymariaethau â Lloegr. Oni ddylai datganoli ein galluogi i gyrraedd y lefel uchaf o wasanaeth, nid y lefel gyffredin isaf? Am y rheswm hwnnw, os oes lefelau gwell o wasanaeth rywle arall yn y Deyrnas Unedig neu Ewrop, oni fyddem am gael gwybod hynny? Oni chrëwn y cyfle hwnnw—

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. This is an intervention, not a speech, Alun Cairns.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Ymyriad yw hwn, Alun Cairns, nid araith.

Alun Cairns: Unless we create that opportunity—

Alun Cairns: Oni chrëwn y cyfle hwnnw—

Helen Mary Jones: Deputy Presiding Officer, I am anxious about my time.

Helen Mary Jones: Ddirprwy Lywydd, yr wyf yn pryderu ynghylch fy amser.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Do not worry; you will not lose any time.

Alun Cairns: Unless we create that opportunity—

Alun Cairns: Oni chrëwn y cyfle hwnnw—

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Please finish, Alun.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Gorffennwch os gwelwch yn dda, Alun.

Alun Cairns: Unless we create that opportunity and more providers are developed, there will be none in Llanelli either, will there?

Alun Cairns: Oni chrëwn y cyfle hwnnw ac oni ddatblygir mwy o ddarparwyr, ni fydd darparwyr i’w cael yn Llanelli.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: On a point of order, if someone is speaking and is not standing, Helen Mary, just ignore them. Please continue.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Hoffwn wneud pwynt ynghylch trefn. Os bydd rhywun yn siarad heb sefyll, Helen Mary, dylech eu hanwybyddu. Ewch yn eich blaen.

Helen Mary Jones: I am happy to be guided by you, Deputy Presiding Officer, but it is just a little frustrating at times.

Helen Mary Jones: Yr wyf yn fodlon derbyn eich cyfarwyddyd, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ond y mae hyn braidd yn rhwystredig weithiau.

Of course we should learn from the best practice everywhere. In terms of offering direct payments as a choice, there will be things that we can do. I do not know how aware Alun Cairns is of some parts of Wales, but it is very unlikely that in somewhere like Aberdovey you will have dozens of different providers and it is very unlikely in communities such as Llanelli that that will happen because, frankly, people are too poor.

Wrth gwrs, dylem ddysgu o arfer gorau ym mhobman. O ran cynnig taliadau uniongyrchol fel dewis, bydd modd inni wneud ambell beth. Ni wn faint y mae Alun Cairns yn ei wybod am rai rhannau o Gymru, ond mae’n annhebygol iawn y bydd gennych ddwsinau o wahanol ddarparwyr rywle megis Aberdyfi, ac y mae’n annhebygol iawn y bydd hynny’n digwydd mewn cymunedau megis Llanelli, oherwydd, a siarad yn blaen, mae pobl yn rhy dlawd.

Alun Cairns: Will you give way?

Helen Mary Jones: No, I will not. I have heard quite enough from you for one afternoon.

Helen Mary Jones: Na wnaf. Yr wyf wedi clywed digon gennych am un prynhawn.

There are some very powerful voices of disabled people asking for more chance for direct payments and individualised budgets. That is absolutely right, and I am sure that our Ministers will listen to those voices. I think that we need to look at the role that voluntary organisations can play in delivering the support to people to be individual employers if that is what they choose to do. However, it should be a choice. While it is quite right, as Jonathan Morgan said, not to characterise all disabled people and those receiving care as old, the vast majority of those receiving care are aged over 65, and the bulk of those do not want to have to employ people. I will quote directly from a carer who spoke to me at a Carers Wales event.

Mae rhai lleisiau pwerus iawn gan bobl anabl yn gofyn am fwy o gyfle i gael taliadau uniongyrchol a chyllidebau unigol. Mae hynny’n berffaith iawn, ac yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd ein Gweinidogion yn gwrando ar y lleisiau hynny. Credaf fod angen inni edrych ar y rôl y gall mudiadau gwirfoddol ei chwarae wrth gynorthwyo pobl i fod yn gyflogwyr unigol, os dyna yw eu dewis. Fodd bynnag, dylai fod yn ddewis. Er ei bod yn hollol iawn, fel y dywedodd Jonathan Morgan, peidio â meddwl bod pawb sy’n anabl a phawb sy’n cael gofal yn hen, mae mwyafrif helaeth y rheini sy’n cael gofal dros 65 oed, ac nid yw’r mwyafrif ohonynt am orfod cyflogi pobl. Dyfynnaf yn uniongyrchol yr hyn a ddywedodd gofalwr wrthyf yn un o ddigwyddiadau Cynhalwyr Cymru.

Jonathan Morgan: Will you take an intervention?

Jonathan Morgan: A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?

Helen Mary Jones: I will take the intervention in a moment, if I can.

Helen Mary Jones: Derbyniaf yr ymyriad yn y man, os gallaf.

5.10 p.m.

What this lady said to me was, 'I do not want to be an employer; I just want X and Y’—she referred to her two local authority carers—’who work for the council, to come regularly to take care of John and to have a bit of a chat with me. I want reliable care; I do not want the bother of having to plan it.’

Dyma a ddywedodd y ddynes wrthyf, 'Nid wyf am fod yn gyflogwr; fy unig ddymuniad yw gweld X a Y’—cyfeiriodd at ddau ofalwr yr awdurdod lleol—'sy’n gweithio i’r cyngor, yn dod yn rheolaidd i ofalu am John ac i sgwrsio ychydig â mi. Yr wyf am gael gofal dibynadwy; nid wyf am boeni am orfod ei gynllunio.’

I will take an intervention from Jonathan Morgan.

Derbyniaf ymyriad gan Jonathan Morgan.

Jonathan Morgan: You said that the vast majority of people do not want to be in that position. Can you state with absolute certainty that people are being asked whether they would like personalisation of care?

Jonathan Morgan: Yr oeddech yn dweud nad yw’r mwyafrif helaeth o bobl am fod yn y sefyllfa honno. A allwch ddweud yn hollol bendant y gofynnir i bobl a fyddent yn hoffi gweld personoleiddio gofal?

Helen Mary Jones: I am sorry if that was your interpretation of what I said, as that was not what I meant. I have made it clear that people should be offered the option. However, the vast majority of these people are over 65, and I am sure that you would accept that it is less likely that they would want to engage in the complications of direct payments. I am not saying that it would not happen, but that it is less likely than it would be for some younger disabled people, who want options and more proactive choices.

Helen Mary Jones: Mae’n ddrwg gennyf os dyna oedd eich dehongliad o’r hyn a ddywedais, oherwydd nid dyna’r oeddwn yn ei olygu. Yr wyf wedi egluro y dylai pobl gael cynnig y dewis. Fodd bynnag, mae mwyafrif helaeth y bobl hyn dros 65 oed, ac yr wyf yn siŵr y byddech yn derbyn ei bod yn llai tebygol y byddent hwy am ymwneud â chymhlethdodau taliadau uniongyrchol. Nid wyf yn dweud na fyddai’n digwydd, ond y mae’n llai tebygol yn eu hachos hwy nag yn achos rhai pobl anabl iau sydd am gael dewisiadau a dulliau mwy rhagweithiol.

There are questions with regard to some private sector care in respect of quality, staff training, the terms and conditions of those staff, and therefore of reliability. I would be very worried if we were to go down the road of having entirely privatised individualised budgets, although I am not saying that the opposition is advocating that. There would be some people who would have to depend on one provider, as they would not have a choice, and that provider would have a captive market. I am not interested in that.

Mae cwestiynau’n codi am rywfaint o ofal y sector preifat, o ran ansawdd, hyfforddiant staff, amodau a thelerau’r staff hynny, a dibynadwyedd hefyd, felly. Byddwn yn bryderus iawn pe baem yn dechrau cael cyllidebau unigol wedi’u preifateiddio’n gyfan gwbl, er nad wyf yn dweud bod yr wrthblaid yn ffafrio hynny. Byddai rhai pobl yn gorfod dibynnu ar un darparwr, am na fyddai ganddynt ddewis, a byddai gan y darparwr hwnnw farchnad gaeth. Nid oes gennyf ddiddordeb yn hynny.

I am concerned to hear a Member characterise publicly provided social care as 'Soviet’. That is bizarre. I wonder whether Mark Isherwood thinks that publicly provided healthcare services are Soviet—I certainly do not. I sense an ideological push from some, although not all, Conservative Members, towards privatising services for the benefit of private companies, and I do not want to hear about that.

Yr wyf yn pryderu clywed Aelod yn defnyddio’r gair 'Sofietaidd’ i ddisgrifio gofal cymdeithasol cyhoeddus. Mae hynny’n rhyfedd. Tybed a yw Mark Isherwood yn meddwl bod gwasanaethau gofal iechyd cyhoeddus yn Sofietiaidd— yn bendant, nid wyf fi. Yr wyf yn synhwyro bod rhai Aelodau Ceidwadol, ond nid pob un ohonynt, yn ceisio hyrwyddo ideoleg a hyrwyddo preifateiddio gwasanaethau er budd cwmnïau preifat, ac nid wyf am glywed am hynny.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Will you take an intervention?

Helen Mary Jones: No, I will not. I am sorry, Andrew, but we have had a long speech from you already, and much of that was fairly meaningless. [Interruption.] Whether we call this 'direct payments’ or 'individualised budgets’, it must always be about choice and not a replacement for good, core services. I urge our Ministers to, of course, listen to the disabled people’s organisations that want more direct payments, but I also urge them to listen to the quieter voices, who may find it harder to get themselves heard. [Interruption.]

Helen Mary Jones: Na wnaf. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, Andrew, ond yr ydym eisoes wedi cael araith hir gennych, lawer ohoni’n ddigon diystyr. [Torri ar draws.] Nid oes gwahaniaeth a ydym yn galw’r rhain yn 'daliadau uniongyrchol’ ynteu’n 'gyllidebau unigol’: rhaid mai dewis yw’r brif ystyriaeth, nid rhywbeth i ddisodli gwasanaethau craidd da. Anogaf ein Gweinidogion, wrth gwrs, i wrando ar fudiadau pobl anabl sydd am weld mwy o daliadau uniongyrchol, ond anogaf hwy hefyd i wrando ar y lleisiau tawelach a all ei chael yn anos cael gwrandawiad. [Torri ar draws.]

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I think that it was an appropriate comment.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Credaf fod hynny’n sylw priodol.

Nick Ramsay: Conservative Members are more than willing to listen to the quieter voices; I just wish that some other Assembly Members would also listen to them. As has been said by my colleagues, and indeed by AMs around the Chamber, today’s motion is very important. While I support the Assembly Government’s policy of making payments available to a widening range of users, the issue of personalisation causes me concern and demonstrates the great gaps in service provision throughout Wales. We often talk of a postcode lottery with regard to other services, and it also applies in this case.

Nick Ramsay: Mae Aelodau Ceidwadol yn fwy na pharod i wrando ar y lleisiau tawelach, ond byddai’n dda gennyf pe bai rhai o Aelodau eraill y Cynulliad hefyd yn gwrando arnynt. Fel y dywedwyd eisoes gan fy nghydweithwyr, ac yn wir, gan Aelodau o amgylch y Siambr, mae’r cynnig heddiw’n bwysig iawn. Er fy mod yn cefnogi polisi Llywodraeth y Cynulliad o sicrhau bod taliadau ar gael i ystod fwyfwy eang o ddefnyddwyr, mae mater personoleiddio yn peri pryder imi ac yn dangos y bylchau anferth yn y ddarpariaeth gwasanaethau ledled Cymru. Byddwn yn aml yn sôn am loteri cod post yng nghyswllt gwasanaethau eraill, ac y mae hynny’n berthnasol yn yr achos hwn hefyd.

It is not suitable for the Assembly or for the providers of services in Wales to say that one size fits all—it simply does not. Going back to Helen Mary Jones’s comment, that is not about having a Soviet system, or however you want to describe it. It is about having a reasonable, realistic argument about the problems facing service users in Wales, and about providing solutions that matter and giving them a choice that matters.

Nid yw’n addas i’r Cynulliad neu ddarparwyr gwasanaethau yng Nghymru ddweud bod un math o ddull gweithredu yn addas i bawb—nid yw hynny’n wir o gwbl. I fynd yn ôl at sylw Helen Mary Jones, nid mater o gael system Sofietaidd ydyw, neu pa air bynnag y dymunwch ei ddefnyddio i’w disgrifio. Mae’n golygu cael dadl resymol, realistig am y problemau sy’n wynebu defnyddwyr gwasanaethau yng Nghymru, a darparu atebion sy’n cyfrif a rhoi dewis sy’n cyfrif.

Helen Mary Jones: I am pleased to hear what you said about not seeing publicly provided care as Soviet. Will you dissociate yourself from the comment that Mark Isherwood made?

Helen Mary Jones: Yr wyf yn falch clywed yr hyn a ddywedwyd gennych am beidio ag ystyried gofal cyhoeddus fel rhywbeth Sofietaidd. A wnewch chi ymbellhau oddi wrth y sylw a wnaeth Mark Isherwood?

Nick Ramsay: You have taken Mark Isherwood’s comments totally out of context, and I would disregard everything that you have just said.

Nick Ramsay: Yr ydych wedi cymryd sylwadau Mark Isherwood allan o’u cyd-destun yn llwyr, a byddwn yn anwybyddu popeth yr ydych newydd ei ddweud.

Social care services that are provided by local authorities are, in many cases, very well used and well relied upon, but sometimes do not have a focus on preventative support. We believe that personalisation could reduce the need for costly crisis support packages. By trusting recipients of care to know best, we could reduce waste and inefficiency. Do not just take my word for that; the Department of Health has said that individual budgets are, at least, cost-neutral.

Mewn llawer achos, caiff gwasanaethau gofal cymdeithasol a ddarperir gan awdurdodau lleol eu defnyddio’n dda iawn, a dibynnir yn helaeth arnynt, ond weithiau nid ydynt yn canolbwyntio ar gymorth ataliol. Credwn y gallai personoleiddio leihau’r angen am becynnau cymorth mewn argyfwng, sy’n gostus. Wrth ymddiried mai’r sawl sy’n cael gofal a ŵyr orau, gallem leihau gwastraff ac aneffeithlonrwydd. Peidiwch â chymryd fy ngair i’n unig ynghylch hynny; mae’r Adran Iechyd wedi dweud bod cyllidebau unigol o leiaf yn niwtral o ran cost.

Aside from saving the NHS in Wales a great deal of money, personalisation is good in a key way: it puts people and their carers at the centre of the development and delivery of the services and support that they receive, working with professionals and care workers to make decisions and to allocate resources in the most appropriate way for them.

Ar wahân i arbed llawer iawn o arian i’r GIG yng Nghymru, mae personoleiddio’n dda mewn ffordd allweddol: mae’n rhoi pobl a’u gofalwyr wrth wraidd gwaith datblygu a darparu’r gwasanaethau a’r cymorth a gânt, gan weithio gyda gweithwyr proffesiynol a gweithwyr gofal i wneud penderfyniadau ac i ddyrannu adnoddau yn y ffordd fwyaf priodol iddynt hwy.

We have heard repeated promises from the Welsh Assembly Government about putting citizens first, giving people a greater say and a choice about how they are supported, and a more active role in managing their own situations—I could go on. We hear no end of soundbites with which no-one would disagree. However, the question is what is happening on the ground and the stark reality when you speak to those who are accessing these services.

Yr ydym wedi clywed addewidion di-ri gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad amh roi dinasyddion yn gyntaf, rhoi mwy o gyfle i bobl ddweud eu dweud, a chael mwy o ddewis ynghylch sut y cânt eu cynorthwyo, a rhoi rôl fwy weithredol iddynt wrth reoli eu sefyllfaoedd eu hunain—a gallwn restru mwy. Clywn beth wmbredd o gyhoeddiadau da na fyddai neb yn anghytuno â hwy. Fodd bynnag, y cwestiwn yw beth sy’n digwydd ar lawr gwlad, a beth yw’r realiti go iawn pan fyddwch yn siarad â’r sawl sy’n defnyddio’r gwasanaethau hynny.

At present, fewer than 2,000 people are being given direct payments for the social care they receive, and that is for all conditions requiring social care, not simply conditions like multiple sclerosis. We have tabled this debate because we believe that the arguments are absolutely clear.

Ar hyn o bryd, mae llai na 2,000 o bobl yn cael taliadau uniongyrchol ar gyfer y gofal cymdeithasol a gânt, o ran pob anhwylder sy’n gofyn am ofal cymdeithasol, ac nid yn unig o ran anhwylderau megis sglerosis ymledol. Yr ydym wedi cyflwyno’r ddadl hon oherwydd ein bod yn credu bod y dadleuon yn hollol glir.

I will make a comparison with England, and I make no apology for referring to England as, although we have a devolved system here—and thank goodness we do—at the same time, we can make comparisons with services across the border. I can see Helen Mary laughing, but it does provide a basis for comparison with services across the border. In England, substantial progress has been made to develop personalisation. Some £520 million has been allocated by the Department of Health, and by October 2010, all new and existing service users and carers must have been offered a personal budget by their local authority. However, despite numerous policy statements and promises for initiatives by the Assembly Government since 2006, progress towards greater personalisation has been painfully slow.

Yr wyf am gymharu Cymru â Lloegr, ac nid wyf yn ymddiheuro am gyfeirio at Loegr, oherwydd, er bod gennym system ddatganoledig yma—a diolch byth am hynny—gallwn ar yr un pryd gymharu ein gwasanaethau ni â rhai sydd dros y ffin. Gallaf weld Helen Mary yn chwerthin, ond y mae’n sail i gymharu â gwasanaethau dros y ffin. Yn Lloegr, mae cynnydd sylweddol wedi’i wneud i ddatblygu personoleiddio. Mae tua £520 miliwn wedi’i ddyrannu gan yr Adran Iechyd, ac erbyn Hydref 2010 bydd yn rhaid i bob defnyddiwr gwasanaeth a gofalwr newydd a phresennol fod wedi cael cynnig cyllideb bersonol gan ei awdurdod lleol. Fodd bynnag, er gwaethaf addewidion a datganiadau polisi niferus am fentrau gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad er 2006, mae cynnydd tuag at fwy o bersonoleiddio wedi bod yn boenus o araf.

I have long called for patients to be participants, and not just recipients, in the provision of the NHS care and social services they receive. People with long-term chronic conditions should have the right to shape the kind of support they need. The individual should be put at the centre of the care they receive. That is what the Assembly Government frequently calls for, and that is what we believe, so let us make it happen. It is about designing services around how and when people wish to receive support. Sadly, having spoken to those involved in the service, my experience of the way that the current system operates is that people do not always receive the right services at the right time for them. That is at the heart of this argument.

Yr wyf wedi galw ers amser am sefyllfa lle mae cleifion yn cymryd rhan yn y ddarpariaeth a gânt o ofal y GIG a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, nid yn eu cael yn unig. Dylai pobl ag anhwylderau cronig a hirdymor gael yr hawl i lunio’r math o gymorth y mae arnynt ei angen. Dylai’r unigolyn gael ei roi wrth wraidd y gofal a gaiff. Dyna y mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn galw’n fynych amdano, dyna yr ydym ni yn credu ynddo, felly, gadewch inni beri iddo ddigwydd. Mae’n golygu cynllunio gwasanaethau ar sail sut a phryd mae pobl yn dymuno cael cymorth. Yn anffodus, ar ôl siarad â phobl sy’n ymwneud â’r gwasanaeth, o’m profiad i o’r ffordd y mae’r system gyfredol yn gweithredu, nid yw pobl bob amser yn cael y gwasanaethau iawn ar yr adeg iawn iddynt hwy. Dyna sydd wrth wraidd y ddadl hon.

For these reasons, I am fully supportive of the drive towards greater personalisation. Contrary to Gwenda Thomas’s belief that patients do not want bells and whistles, patients do want a greater say in how their services are run. In some instances, there is a lack of understanding with regard to the way in which the private sector and the public sector should be working together and that both have a role to play. We believe in choice and we want to deliver choice, but, for goodness’ sake, let us get on with the job and deliver that choice, and not just recite a bunch of meaningless platitudes that have no effect on the ground.

Am y rhesymau hyn, yr wyf yn hollol gefnogol i’r ymgyrch dros fwy o bersonoleiddio. Yn groes i gred Gwenda Thomas nad yw cleifion am gael gwasanaethau deniadol ac amlwg, mae cleifion am gael mwy o gyfle i ddweud eu dweud am y modd y caiff eu gwasanaethau eu rhedeg. Mewn rhai achosion mae diffyg dealltwriaeth o’r modd y dylai’r sector preifat a’r sector cyhoeddus gydweithio a’r ffaith fod rôl gan y ddau sector. Yr ydym yn credu mewn dewis, ac yr ydym am sicrhau dewis, ond er mwyn popeth, gadewch inni fwrw ymlaen â’r gwaith a sicrhau’r dewis hwnnw, a rhoi’r gorau i adrodd pentwr o ystrydebau diystyr nad ydynt yn effeithio ar yr hyn sy’n digwydd ar lawr gwlad.

Ann Jones: I have listened carefully to the debate. I want to concentrate on the workers who will be employed by those receiving the direct payments. We have heard Helen Mary and Joyce mention the fact that many people who receive care do not want to be classed as employers; they do not want that. No-one in the Chamber has mentioned the workers, who will be working for people in a caring capacity with whom they will often become friends. What happens when you have no contract and when you are simply providing care for an elderly or young person and that relationship breaks down? What happens to that worker? I do not expect the Tories to have thought of that, because we know that the Tories have never taken—

Ann Jones: Yr wyf wedi gwrando’n ofalus ar y ddadl. Yr wyf am ganolbwyntio ar y gweithwyr a gyflogir gan y bobl sy’n cael taliadau uniongyrchol. Clywsom Helen Mary a Joyce yn crybwyll y ffaith nad yw llawer o bobl sy’n cael gofal am gael eu hystyried yn gyflogwyr; nid ydynt yn dymuno hynny. Nid oes neb yn y Siambr wedi sôn am y gweithwyr a fydd yn gweithio i’r bobl fel gofalwyr, ac a fydd yn aml yn dod yn gyfeillion iddynt. Beth sy’n digwydd pan na fydd gennych gontract, a phan fyddwch yn gofalu am berson hŷn neu berson ifanc, a’r berthynas honno’n chwalu? Beth sy’n digwydd i’r gweithiwr hwnnw? Nid wyf yn disgwyl i’r Torïaid fod wedi meddwl am hynny, oherwydd gwyddom nad yw’r Torïaid erioed wedi—

Andrew R.T. Davies: Will you take an intervention?

Andrew R.T. Davies: A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?

Ann Jones: I have only just started my contribution, but I will.

Ann Jones: Nid wyf ond prin wedi dechrau fy nghyfraniad, ond fe’i derbyniaf.

Andrew R.T. Davies: This debate is not about moving completely from one system to another; it is about offering choice in the system and about the way that the system is developed for the individual user. We are not saying that there will be a 100 per cent shift, but, at the end of the day, you have to offer choice.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Nid dadl yw hon am symud yn gyfan gwbl o un system i system arall; mae’n ymwneud â chynnig dewis yn y system a’r modd y caiff y system ei datblygu ar gyfer y defnyddiwr unigol. Nid ydym yn dweud y bydd y cyfan yn newid, ond, yn y pen draw, rhaid ichi gynnig dewis.

Ann Jones: That is fine; you have made that point. However, nowhere in the motion or in the debate have the Tories mentioned what they will do about protecting the rights of workers. [Interruption.] No, you have not. Do not look puzzled; you have not. I have listened to the debate carefully and no-one has mentioned these workers.

Ann Jones: Mae hynny’n iawn; yr ydych wedi gwneud y pwynt hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’r Torïaid wedi sôn o gwbl yn y cynnig na’r ddadl am yr hyn y byddant yn ei wneud i warchod hawliau gweithwyr. [Torri ar draws.] Nac ydych. Peidiwch ag edrych mor syn; nid ydych wedi sôn am hynny o gwbl. Yr wyf wedi gwrando’n ofalus ar y ddadl, ac nid oes neb wedi sôn am y gweithwyr hyn.

If you are friends with someone for whom you become a carer and that relationship breaks down, what happens to that person’s rights? Where are those worker’s rights? That is the issue that has not been addressed here today.

Os ydych yn gyfaill i rywun ac yna’n dod yn ofalwr iddo a’r berthynas honno’n chwalu, beth sy’n digwydd i hawliau’r gofalwr hwnnw? Ble mae hawliau’r gweithiwr hwnnw? Dyna’r mater nad oes neb wedi mynd i’r afael ag ef yma heddiw.

The other issue is pensions for these people. [Interruption.] Alun, if you are going to get up, then get up.

Y mater arall yw pensiynau i’r bobl hyn. [Torri ar draws.] Alun, os ydych am sefyll, sefwch.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. Do you intend to intervene, or not?

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. A ydych yn bwriadu ymyrryd ai peidio?

Alun Cairns: I was seeking permission to intervene.

Alun Cairns: Yr oeddwn yn gofyn am ganiatâd i ymyrryd.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Will you stand up and seek permission? Will you take an intervention, Ann Jones?

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: A wnewch chi sefyll a gofyn am ganiatâd? A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad, Ann Jones?

Ann Jones: Yes, I will.

Alun Cairns: I am grateful to Ann Jones for giving way. These problems are not new problems and there are solutions that the Labour Party has developed in England. Surely, they would provide a welcome opportunity for us here.

Alun Cairns: Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Ann Jones am ildio. Nid yw’r problemau hyn yn broblemau newydd, ac y mae’r Blaid Lafur wedi datblygu atebion iddynt yn Lloegr. Oni fyddent yn gyfle i’w groesawu i ni yma?

Ann Jones: Just because the Labour Party has developed something in England, we do not have to follow it. That will seem quite strange coming from me, as I do not want to keep an all-Wales service.

Ann Jones: Nid yw’r ffaith fod y Blaid Lafur wedi datblygu rhywbeth yn Lloegr yn golygu ei bod yn rhaid i ni ei ddilyn yma. Mae fy nghlywed i’n dweud hynny’n ymddangos yn ddigon rhyfedd, oherwydd nid wyf am gadw gwasanaeth i Gymru gyfan.

5.20 p.m.

However, I am concerned about pension rights. Individual benefit payments and take-up of care payments will often mean that those workers will not get a pension. This is a short-term solution, but we are not looking at the long term when these people will suddenly become pensioners themselves. There will be many people who will not have a state pension.

Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn pryderu am hawliau pensiwn. Bydd taliadau budd-daliadau unigol a manteisio ar daliadau gofal yn golygu’n aml na fydd y gweithwyr hynny’n cael pensiwn. Mae hwn yn ateb tymor byr, ond nid ydym yn edrych ar y tymor hir, pan fydd y bobl hyn yn sydyn yn bensiynwyr eu hunain. Bydd gennym lawer o bobl na fyddant yn cael pensiwn y wladwriaeth.

When we were travelling down to Cardiff, my colleague Karen Sinclair and I met a person who was doing this sort of private care. She was working four 24-hour days looking after somebody and catnapped when she could. She was 62 and had to carry on working because she had no pension. The person that she was helping was becoming increasingly unable to recognise her. There were real issues about the care of this individual and about the worker’s rights. The woman who was her employer was not able to fulfil her obligations as an employer. She was not able to offer a health and safety check. Therefore, if this carer hurt her back while lifting this lady, she was not in a position to claim anything, nor was she in a position to go off sick—she only had the statutory sick pay. Those are the issues which we will face if we are not careful.

Pan oeddem yn teithio i lawr i Gaerdydd, cyfarfu fy nghydweithiwr, Karen Sinclair, a minnau â rhywun a oedd yn darparu’r math hwn o ofal preifat. Yr oedd yn gweithi