Cofnod y Trafodion
The Record of Proceedings

Y Llywydd: Galwaf y Cynulliad i drefn.

Darpariaeth Dialysis Arennau

The Provision of Renal Dialysis

C1 David Lloyd: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am y ddarpariaeth dialysis arennau yng Nghymru? OAQ(3)0449(FM)

Q1 David Lloyd: Will the First Minister make a statement on the provision of renal dialysis in Wales? OAQ(3)0449(FM)

Y Prif Weinidog (Rhodri Morgan): Un enghraifft o’r datblygiadau a fu yn y gwasanaeth hwn yw’r uned dialysis arennau newydd yng Nghaerfyrddin a fydd yn agor ym mis Ionawr. Yr ydym yn disgwyl cael yr achos busnes ar gyfer uned ategol yn sir Benfro ym mis Ionawr, a bydd Edwina Hart yn ei ystyried bryd hynny. Bydd y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol hefyd yn gwneud datganiad gerbron y corff hwn wythnos i yfory, i drafod y twf a welwyd yn y maes hwn ynghyd â’r maes ehangach o roi a thrawsblannu organau.

The First Minister (Rhodri Morgan): An example of the developments that have taken place in this service is the new renal dialysis unit in Carmarthen which will open in January. We expect a business case for a satellite unit in Pembrokeshire in January, which Edwina Hart will consider at that time. The Minister for Health and Social Services will make a statement in Plenary a week tomorrow, to discuss the growth seen in this area and the broader area of organ donation and transplantation.

David Lloyd: Diolch am eich ateb. Yr wyf yn falch iawn o glywed am y cynnydd yn y ddarpariaeth. Byddwch yn ymwybodol bod angen dialysis ar 400 o bobl yn ychwanegol bob blwyddyn. Dros y blynyddoedd, mae’r gwasanaeth wedi bod yn gyndyn iawn o gynyddu’r ddarpariaeth i ateb y galw. Yn ogystal â chynyddu darpariaeth ar ffurf unedau dialysis, sut fyddwch chi’n cryfhau’r system bresennol o gomisiynu gwasanaethau arennol? Mae dau rwydwaith arennol, un yn y de ac un yn y gogledd. Cânt eu cydlynu gan y Grŵp Cynghori Arennol, a dyna’r system nad yw wedi darparu digon o unedau dialysis dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. A oes gobaith cryfhau atebolrwydd ac annibyniaeth y Grŵp Cynghori Arennol presennol, gan gynnwys rhoi pwerau iddo adrodd i’r Gweinidog iechyd, a sicrhau bod rhagor o unedau dialysis a fydd ar gael yn yr hirdymor i bobl Cymru?

Y Prif Weinidog: Bu imi gyfeirio at yr achos busnes ar gyfer yr uned ategol newydd yn sir Benfro, a disgwyliwn i’r Gweinidog iechyd gael yr achos busnes cyn bo hir. O edrych yn ehangach ac i’r hirdymor, yr ydym yn disgwyl mynd fesul cam, mewn blociau o dair blynedd, drwy gyfrwng y fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol ar wasanaethau arennol, gan fynd â ni hyd at 2015. Gall Edwina roi mwy o fanylion wythnos i yfory, pan fydd yn gwneud ei datganiad i’r Cynulliad.

Jonathan Morgan: It is generally accepted that renal services in Wales are poor, particularly dialysis services, but also transplantation. You may know that the Cardiff and Vale NHS Trust is working through a solution to siting a new transplant unit in the capital city. Could you provide an update to the Assembly on that business case, and on whether you think some progress will be made within the current financial year?

Jonathan Morgan: Derbynnir yn gyffredinol fod y gwasanaethau arennol yng Nghymru yn wael, yn enwedig y gwasanaethau dialysis, ond hefyd y gwasanaeth trawsblaniadau. Efallai eich bod yn gwybod bod Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Caerdydd a’r Fro yn gweithio ar ateb a fyddai’n lleoli uned drawsblannu newydd yn y brifddinas. A allech roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i’r Cynulliad am yr achos busnes hwnnw, a dweud a ydych yn credu y caiff unrhyw gynnydd ei wneud yn ystod y flwyddyn ariannol gyfredol?

The First Minister: I do not want to give the impression that no transplantation work is going on, and the point there is the risk of cross-infection from not having a dedicated transplant unit. A good case has been made verbally, though not yet formally, by the Cardiff and Vale NHS Trust for a dedicated transplant unit, to reduce the risk of cross-infection. The question then is from how wide a circle of Wales would people be willing to come to have their transplant performed, if it were a dedicated unit. You said that I was concentrating on dialysis rather than on transplantation, but the two are linked. The more transplants you perform, the more you can hold down the demand for dialysis in those demographics that are pushing upwards all the time.

Eleanor Burnham: Yn ôl ym mis Mawrth, honnodd Dr Gibbons ei fod yn croesawu dathlu Diwrnod yr Aren. Hoffwn wybod yn union beth a wnaed gennych ers hynny i wella’r ddarpariaeth. Yr ydych yn sôn am ei gwella yn y dyfodol, ond i’r sawl sydd â phroblemau arennol, nid oes modd iddynt aros yn hir, gan fod eu cyflwr fel arfer yn wael. Mae angen triniaeth arnynt yn awr, heddiw neu yfory, ac nid ymhen blwyddyn neu rywbryd yn y dyfodol. Beth yn union fyddwch chi’n ei wneud i wella’r sefyllfa yn y gogledd? Hyd y deallaf, mae angen sicrhau bod pobl o fewn cyrraedd triniaeth cyn pen 30 munud, ac nid yw hynny’n bosibl ar hyn o bryd.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae datblygiadau yn digwydd drwy’r amser, ac felly rhaid cael fframwaith a strategaeth ar gyfer y tymor cymharol hir, sef cyfnod o saith neu wyth mlynedd. Yr ydym yn ymdrin â’r gwasgu sy’n digwydd o ganlyniad i’r ddemograffeg a’r galw cynyddol am ddialysis. Er enghraifft, ar un adeg, bu sôn am ormod o bwysau yn Abertawe ac efallai y byddai’n rhaid gostwng nifer y sesiynau dialysis o dair yr wythnos i ddwy. Yn y pen draw, darganfuwyd ffordd o ymdopi â’r pwysau ychwanegol, ac mae’r tair sesiwn yr wythnos yn parhau ar gyfer pawb sydd eu heisiau, ond nid yw hynny wedi bod yn wir yng Nghaerdydd ar adegau. Fodd bynnag, bydd Edwina yn ymdrin â phwnc strategaeth ar roi a thrawsblannu organau yn ei datganiad wythnos i yfory.

Ffermydd Gwynt

Windfarms

C2 Nerys Evans: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am faint o arian a ddisgwylir yn sgîl defnyddio tir y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth ar gyfer ffermydd gwynt? OAQ(3)0444(FM)

Q2 Nerys Evans: Will the First Minister make a statement on the amount of money that is expected from the use of Forestry Commission land for windfarms? OAQ(3)0444(FM)

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae faint o dir a ddefnyddir yn cael ei drafod ar hyn o bryd, a gobeithiaf y bydd mwy i’w ddweud am yr arian mewn rhyw fis. Mae’r egwyddorion yn eithaf clir. Dylai fod taliad dros dro, ymlaen llaw yn cael ei wneud fel arwydd fod y cwmnïau o ddifrif, ond nid ydym yn gwybod faint fydd y taliad hwnnw—mae hynny’n cael ei drafod. Ar ôl hynny, ar yr amod bod y melinau gwynt yn cael caniatâd cynllunio, byddai tâl o 1c fesul cilowat, dyweder—neu rywbeth tebyg—ar allu’r melinau gwynt i gynhyrchu trydan.

The First Minister: How much land is to be used is currently being discussed, and I hope to be able to say more about the financial side in about a month. The principles are fairly clear. An upfront, interim payment should be made as a sign of the companies’ seriousness, but we do not know how much that will be—that is being discussed. After that, on the condition that the turbines are granted planning permission, there would be a payment of, say, 1p per kilowatt—or something in that order—based on the turbines’ electricity generation capacity.

Nerys Evans: Yr oeddwn yn croesawu’r datganiad ar ryddhau’r tir, ac ar ryddhau’r arian sydd ei angen. A wnewch ymrwymo i fuddsoddi rhan o’r arian ar fesurau arbed ynni yn y cartref, a chefnogi busnesau sy’n darparu adnoddau ynni amgen?

Nerys Evans: I welcomed the announcement on releasing land, and on releasing the money that is required. Will you commit to investing part of the money on domestic energy-saving measures, and on supporting businesses that provide alternative energy resources?

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid wyf yn credu mewn cyfrif arian nad ydym wedi’i dderbyn. Pan fo’r arian yn y cwdyn, byddaf yn fodlon siarad am yr egwyddorion yr wyf newydd eu hamlinellu. O ran defnyddio’r arian—os cawn ni arian—i hybu’r broses o symud tuag at economi a chymdeithas carbon isel, bydd hynny yn flaenoriaeth uchel.

Darren Millar: We all know that your Government is desperate to get its hands on cash to deliver what little you can of the 'One Wales’ agreement between your party and Plaid Cymru, but is the income that you might derive from Forestry Commission land really worth destroying so many of the precious landscapes of Wales, which produce so much more for our economy through tourism than your Government will ever be able to make through allowing wind factories to be built across our countryside?

Darren Millar: Gŵyr pawb ohonom fod eich Llywodraeth yn daer am gael ei dwylo ar arian er mwyn iddi allu cyflawni’r mymryn bach hwnnw a allwch o gytundeb 'Cymru’n Un’ rhwng eich plaid a Phlaid Cymru, ond a yw’r incwm y gallech ei gael o dir y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth mewn gwirionedd yn werth dinistrio cynifer o dirweddau gwerthfawr Cymru, sy’n cynhyrchu cymaint mwy i’n heconomi drwy dwristiaeth nag y gall eich Llywodraeth chi fyth ei wneud drwy ganiatáu i ffermydd gwynt gael eu codi ar draws cefn gwlad?

The First Minister: You obviously did not listen to the reply that I gave to Nerys Evans; the fact that you have a piece of paper shows that you wrote your question well in advance. I plainly said that I do not believe in counting money that is not in the bag. We do not have any money in the bag, and we might not get any money, so we are not counting any money into Assembly coffers. It will all depend on commercial negotiations currently taking place on the upfront payment, and everything after that will depend on planning permission, which is not a matter for us—it is a matter for other bodies. I would never presume on planning permission.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yn amlwg, ni wrandawsoch ar yr ateb a roddais i Nerys Evans; mae’r ffaith bod gennych ddarn o bapur yn dangos ichi ysgrifennu eich cwestiwn ymhell ymlaen llaw. Dywedais yn glir nad wyf yn credu mewn cyfrif arian nad yw yn y cwdyn. Nid oes gennym ddim arian yn y cwdyn, ac efallai na chawn ddim arian, felly nid ydym yn cyfrif dim arian i goffrau’r Cynulliad. Bydd yn dibynnu ar y trafodaethau masnachol sy’n mynd rhagddynt ar hyn o bryd ynglŷn â thaliad ymlaen llaw, a bydd popeth wedi hynny yn dibynnu ar ganiatâd cynllunio, nad yw’n fater i ni—mater ydyw i gyrff eraill. Ni fyddwn fyth yn rhagdybio ynglŷn â chaniatâd cynllunio.

Janice Gregory: The communities of Gilfach Goch and Evanstown in my constituency are living with the threat of being surrounded by up to seven windfarms. We also know that there is a proposal for a windfarm on Forestry Commission land in strategic search area F, which includes the Evanstown and Gilfach Goch areas, although we will not know exactly where that will be until December. My concern for my constituents in Evanstown and Gilfach Goch is that there could, potentially, be eight windfarms in a circle around those communities. Can you assure me that any planning process for development on Forestry Commission land will take into account the cumulative effect with regard to other windfarm developments? Do you agree that communities should be more involved and consulted on proposals for windfarm developments in their areas?

Janice Gregory: Mae cymunedau’r Gilfach-goch ac Evanstown yn fy etholaeth yn byw gyda’r bygythiad y byddant yn cael eu hamgylchynu gan hyd at saith o ffermydd gwynt. Gwyddom hefyd fod cynnig ar gyfer fferm wynt ar dir y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth yn ardal chwilio strategol F, sy’n cynnwys ardaloedd Evanstown a’r Gilfach-goch, er na fyddwn yn gwybod ym mha le yn union y bydd hynny tan fis Rhagfyr. Fy mhryder ar ran fy etholwyr yn Evanstown a’r Gilfach-goch yw y gallai fod wyth fferm wynt, o bosibl, mewn cylch o amgylch y cymunedau hynny. A allwch fy sicrhau y bydd unrhyw broses gynllunio ar gyfer datblygiad ar dir y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth yn ystyried yr effaith gronnol o safbwynt datblygu ffermydd gwynt eraill? A ydych yn cytuno y dylai cymunedau gael mwy o lais ac y dylid ymgynghori mwy â hwy ynghylch cynigion i ddatblygu ffermydd gwynt yn eu hardaloedd?

The First Minister: When you talk about a combination of planning permission cases that may fall to us on appeal—as they are under 50 MW—and the Forestry Commission windfarm proposals, where I have approved the principle of leasing land to bodies that came up through the tender process but where we will not be involved in the planning permission process, it is going to get pretty complicated. What I said earlier to Darren Millar is that I am not presuming yet that anything gets planning permission on Forestry Commission land, as that process has not yet started and it is not a matter for us. With developments of under 50 MW, we will have to work out the best method for ensuring that the planning permission process covers how to take account of planning permission 2, which comes after planning permission 1. If planning permission 1 has been granted, I would imagine that planning permission 2—although, if it was Forestry Commission land, it would have nothing to do with us—would take account of planning permissions granted in the same area.

Y Prif Weinidog: Wrth siarad am gyfuniad o achosion yn ymwneud â chaniatâd cynllunio a all ddod ger ein bron mewn apêl—gan eu bod dan 50 MW—a’r cynigion ar gyfer ffermydd gwynt ar dir y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth, lle’r wyf wedi cymeradwyo egwyddor prydlesu tir i gyrff a ddaeth drwy’r broses dendro ond lle na fydd a wnelo ni â’r broses o roi caniatâd cynllunio, mae pethau’n mynd yn bur gymhleth. Yr hyn a ddywedais yn gynharach wrth Darren Millar yw nad wyf yn rhagdybio eto y caiff unrhyw beth ganiatâd cynllunio ar dir y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth, gan nad yw’r broses honno wedi dechrau eto ac nad yw’n fater i ni. Gyda datblygiadau dan 50 MW, bydd yn rhaid inni benderfynu ar y dull gorau o sicrhau bod y broses o roi caniatâd cynllunio’n cwmpasu sut y mae ystyried caniatâd cynllunio 2, sy’n dod ar ôl caniatâd cynllunio 1. Os yw caniatâd cynllunio 1 wedi cael ei roi, byddwn yn dyfalu y byddai caniatâd cynllunio 2—er na fyddai a wnelo ddim â ni petai’n dir y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth,—yn ystyried caniatadau cynllunio sydd wedi cael eu rhoi yn yr un ardal.

2.10 p.m.

Peter Black: Important though it is that the Assembly Government facilitates its policies on alternative energy through the use of its own land, what other action is your Government taking in respect of other forms of alternative energy production, and what progress has been made on a pilot scheme on a tidal lagoon in Swansea bay, which the Minister announced in Plenary some time ago that she would be seeking?

Peter Black: Er mor bwysig ydyw i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad hwyluso’i pholisïau ynglŷn ag ynni amgen drwy ddefnyddio’i thir ei hun, pa gamau eraill y mae eich Llywodraeth yn eu cymryd o ran ffyrdd eraill o gynhyrchu ynni amgen, a pha gynnydd sydd wedi cael ei wneud o ran cynllun peilot ar forlyn llanw ym mae Abertawe, y cyhoeddodd y Gweinidog mewn Cyfarfod Llawn beth amser yn ôl y byddai’n ei geisio?

The First Minister: The important point is that there is a range of technologies. Wind power is a relatively mature technology and it is the only one available today that you can say can produce renewable energy at a price that is approximate at least to the price of others—it is more expensive than conventional energy, but not by a huge amount. Some of the other technologies are expensive by comparison, but their time will come once they have been established. Therefore, you have to encourage infant industries to become mass-production industries in order to bring the cost down, be they in the fields of offshore wind, solar power, biomass, or wind and tidal energy. There will be a range of technologies, which we are supporting partially through Objective 1 and partially through our funding of research in this area. As you know, we made a grant of £5 million available for the establishment of the Low Carbon Research Institute, led by Cardiff University and with participation from Swansea, Glamorgan and Bangor, only last week. Therefore, we are undertaking a range of activities.

Y Prif Weinidog: Y pwynt pwysig yw bod ystod o dechnolegau. Mae pŵer y gwynt yn dechnoleg gymharol aeddfed a hi yw’r unig un sydd ar gael heddiw y gallwch ddweud ei bod yn gallu cynhyrchu ynni adnewyddadwy am bris sy’n debyg o leiaf i bris technolegau eraill—mae’n ddrutach nag ynni confensiynol, ond nid o lawer iawn. Mae rhai o’r technolegau eraill yn ddrud o’u cymharu, ond daw eu hamser hwy ar ôl iddynt ennill eu plwyf. Felly, rhaid ichi annog egin ddiwydiannau i ddod yn ddiwydiannau masgynhyrchu er mwyn gostwng y gost, boed y rheini ym maes gwynt ar y mor, pŵer solar, biomas, neu ynni’r gwynt a’r llanw. Bydd ystod o dechnolegau, yr ydym yn eu cefnogi’n rhannol drwy Amcan 1 ac yn rhannol drwy ein cyllid i ymchwil yn y maes hwn. Fel y gwyddoch, yr ydym wedi darparu grant o £5 miliwn i sefydlu’r Sefydliad Ymchwil Carbon Isel, dan arweiniad Prifysgol Caerdydd a chyda chyfranogiad gan Abertawe, Morgannwg a Bangor, yr wythnos diwethaf. Felly, yr ydym yn ymgymryd ag ystod o weithgareddau.

The Recognition of Cancers

Adnabod Canserau

Q3 Jenny Randerson: Will the First Minister make a statement on the recognition of cancers by general practitioners? OAQ(3)0436(FM)

C3 Jenny Randerson: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am feddygon teulu’n adnabod canserau? OAQ(3)0436(FM)

The First Minister: GPs have a central role in the recognition of the symptoms of cancer, and the key role is their categorising of referrals to cancer consultants, oncologists, according to an urgent or non-urgent status. Urgent referrals must be assessed and diagnosed by a cancer specialist and treatment must begin within 62 days of receipt of referral, and treatment in relation to non-urgent referrals must begin within 31 days of diagnosis. In both cases, more than nine out of 10 GP referrals are treated within those time limits.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae gan feddygon teulu rôl ganolog o ran adnabod symptomau canser, a’r rôl allweddol yw eu gwaith yn categoreiddio’r achosion y maent yn eu hatgyfeirio at ymgynghorwyr canser, oncolegwyr, yn ôl statws brys neu heb fod yn frys. Rhaid i arbenigwr canser asesu a gwneud diagonis ar achosion brys a atgyfeirir a rhaid i’r driniaeth ddechrau o fewn 62 diwrnod wedi i’r achos a atgyfeiriwyd ddod i law, a rhaid i’r driniaeth yng nghyswllt achosion nad ydynt yn rhai brys ddechrau o fewn 31 diwrnod wedi’r diagnosis. Yn y naill achos a’r llall, mae mwy na 9 o bob 10 o’r achosion a atgyfeirir gan feddygon teulu’n cael eu trin o fewn y terfynau amser hynny.

Jenny Randerson: Thank you for your detailed answer. A constituent of mine wished to complain about the failure of her GP in diagnosing a cancer in her teenage son. This failure led to his death some three years later, although the type of cancer concerned is usually curable. As the surgery concerned did not acknowledge fault, she pursued her complaint to an ombudsman inquiry, which was the only avenue available to her short of expensive litigation, which she could not afford. Having been involved in advising my constituent, I have become aware of the serious limitations on the type of inquiry that the ombudsman is able to undertake, not least because of the limited resources he has available to commission expert medical evidence. Can you assure me that your Government will take seriously the limitations of the current complaints procedures in respect of primary care and will pursue with vigour the need to introduce redress measures for NHS primary care as well as those for secondary care? I am raising this issue because, in evidence to the Proposed NHS Redress (Wales) Measure Committee, we have had suggestions that the NHS primary care redress procedures could be considerably delayed when compared with those for secondary care.

Jenny Randerson: Diolch ichi am eich ateb manwl. Yr oedd un o’m hetholwyr am gwyno am fethiant ei meddyg teulu wrth wneud diagnosis ar ganser yn ei mab a oedd yn ei arddegau. Arweiniodd y methiant hwn at ei farwolaeth dair blynedd yn ddiweddarach, er bod y math o ganser dan sylw yn un y mae modd ei wella fel rheol. Gan na wnaeth y feddygfa dan sylw gydnabod bai, aeth â’i chwyn i ymchwiliad gan ombwdsmon, sef yr unig lwybr a oedd ar gael iddi heb ymgymryd ag ymgyfreitha drud, na allai ei fforddio. A minnau wedi bod yn cynghori fy etholwr, yr wyf wedi dod yn ymwybodol o’r cyfyngiadau difrifol ar y math o ymchwiliad y gall yr ombwdsmon ymgymryd ag ef, yn enwedig oherwydd yr adnoddau cyfyngedig sydd ar gael iddo i gomisiynu tystiolaeth feddygol arbenigol. A allwch fy sicrhau y bydd eich Llywodraeth yn cymryd cyfyngiadau’r gweithdrefnau cwynion cyfredol o ran gofal sylfaenol o ddifrif ac y bydd yn mynd ati’n egnïol i sefydlu bod angen cyflwyno mesurau i wneud iawn am gamweddau’r GIG ym maes gofal sylfaenol yn ogystal â’r rhai sy’n ymdrin â gofal eilaidd? Yr wyf yn codi’r mater oherwydd, mewn tystiolaeth i’r Pwyllgor ar y Mesur Arfaethedig ynghylch Gwneud Iawn am Gamweddau’r GIG (Cymru), yr ydym wedi cael awgrymiadau y gallai’r gweithdrefnau i wneud iawn am gamweddau’r GIG ym maes gofal sylfaenol wynebu oedi sylweddol o’u cymharu â’r rhai ar gyfer gofal eilaidd.

The First Minister: The case that you outlined sounds deeply distressing for your constituent. I cannot comment directly without seeing the papers. The redress system in the NHS is a matter of current consideration in relation to the NHS redress Measure that we are undertaking and on which evidence is being taken. I am not aware of the reason for any distinction, or discrimination, between those who want to raise redress issues in relation to primary care and those who want to raise issues relating to secondary care. I would very much like to see the details of the evidence that you referred to.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae’n siŵr bod yr achos a amlinellwyd gennych wedi achosi loes mawr i’ch etholwr. Ni allaf gyflwyno sylwadau uniongyrchol heb weld y papurau. Mae’r system i wneud iawn am gamweddau yn y GIG yn fater sy’n cael ei ystyried ar hyn o bryd yng nghyswllt y Mesur i wneud iawn am gamweddau’r GIG yr ydym yn ymgymryd ag ef ac yn cymryd tystiolaeth yn ei gylch. Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o’r rheswm am unrhyw wahaniaethu, na chamwahaniaethu, rhwng y rhai sydd am godi materion yn gysylltiedig â gwneud iawn o ran gofal sylfaenol a’r rhai sydd am godi materion yn ymwneud â gofal eilaidd. Hoffwn yn fawr iawn weld manylion y dystiolaeth y cyfeiriasoch ati.

Alun Ffred Jones: Heb gyfeirio at achos penodol, mae gwendid arall yn y drefn hon. Pan fydd claf yn cael triniaeth dan law arbenigwr yn y maes hwn mewn ysbyty, mae tuedd i’r meddyg teulu ddod â’r cysylltiad i ben o ganlyniad. Yn aml, oherwydd natur y canser, mae perygl iddo ddod yn ôl, ond nid yw’r meddygon mewn cysylltiad â’r claf ar ôl y driniaeth. Yr wyf yn credu y dylid rhoi arweiniad i sicrhau bod y meddyg lleol yn dal mewn cysylltiad â’r claf, er efallai nad yw’n wael yn yr ystyr gonfensiynol, er mwyn ceisio adnabod symptomau pe bai’r clefyd yn ailymddangos.

Alun Ffred Jones: Without referring to a specific case, there is another weakness in this system. When a patient is treated by a cancer specialist in hospital, there is a tendency for the GP to cut off contact with the patient as a result. Often, because of the cancer’s nature, there is a danger that it will come back, but doctors are not in contact with the patient after the treatment. I believe that direction should be given to ensure that the local doctor is still in contact with the patient, even though he or she may not be poorly in the conventional sense, in order to try to recognise the symptoms if the illness reappears.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae dilyniant o ran meddyg teulu yn gofalu am y claf wedi triniaeth arbenigol yn yr ysbyty yn hollbwysig. Nid wyf yn gallu siarad am ganser, gan nad oedd canser arnaf fi—yr oeddwn yn dioddef o glefyd y galon—ond gwn fod cysylltiad gyda’r meddyg teulu rhwng apwyntiadau ysbyty yn hollbwysig. Efallai nad yw’r meddyg teulu yn meddwl bod ganddo rôl i’w chwarae, gan fod canser mor arbenigol, ac efallai mai dyna lle mae’r system yn methu, gan fod meddygon teulu yn meddwl bod y mater uwch eu pennau—nid wyf yn siŵr; efallai mai dyna’r hyn yr ydych yn siarad amdano. Os oes gwendid o ran dilyniant gyda chanser a chlefydau eraill mae’n bwysig edrych ar hynny. Dylem sicrhau bod gan feddygon teulu yr addysg, y gallu a’r hunanhyder i gymryd rhan fel y dylent ym mhob achos ar ôl i glaf gwblhau triniaeth arbenigol mewn ysbyty.

Alun Cairns: As the First Minister said, the GP’s recognition of cancer symptoms is usually the first step, leading to an appointment with a consultant, and, quite often, there is a need for highly specialised care in order to resolve the patient’s condition. A constituent of mine requires cryotherapy to treat prostate cancer. Health Commission Wales rejected that. Following an appeal, it still rejected that, and even after the involvement of the Minister for Health and Social Services there was no way forward for him to have cryotherapy. This patient has no other form of treatment available to him. What does he do—sit back and die?

Alun Cairns: Fel y dywedodd y Prif Weinidog, fel rheol, y cam cyntaf yw bod y meddyg teulu’n adnabod symptomau’r canser, gan arwain at apwyntiad gydag ymgynghorydd, ac, yn eithaf aml, bydd angen gofal arbenigol iawn er mwyn gwella cyflwr y claf. Mae ar un o’m hetholwyr angen cryotherapi i drin canser y prostad. Gwrthodwyd hynny gan Gomisiwn Iechyd Cymru. Ar ôl apêl, yr oedd yn dal i wrthod hynny, a hyd yn oed ar ôl i’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ymyrryd, nid oedd dim modd iddo gael cryotherapi. Nid oes dim math arall o driniaeth ar gael i’r claf hwn. Beth y dylai ei wneud—eistedd yn ôl a marw?

The First Minister: I have to be honest and say that I do not know what category of cancer cryotherapy is used to treat, and obviously I do not know the case to which you refer. I am not in a position to answer your rhetorical question at the end, but I would be grateful if you would write to me and I will look into the matter to see why HCW took the line that it did, presumably on the basis of specialist advice, on the appropriateness of the treatment, and why it upheld that on appeal.

Y Prif Weinidog: Rhaid imi fod yn onest a dweud na wn pa gategori o ganser y defnyddir cryotherapi i’w drin, ac yn amlwg nid wyf yn gyfarwydd â’r achos y cyfeiriwch ato. Ni allaf ateb eich cwestiwn rhethregol ar y diwedd, ond byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe byddech yn ysgrifennu ataf ac ymchwiliaf i’r mater i weld pam y dilynodd CIC y trywydd hwnnw, ar sail cyngor arbenigol yr wyf yn cymryd, o ran priodoldeb y driniaeth, a pham y cadarnhawyd hynny ar ôl apêl.

The Post Office Network

Y Rhwydwaith Swyddfeydd Post

Q4 Chris Franks: What discussions has the First Minister had with UK Government Ministers regarding the post office network in Wales? OAQ(3)0446(FM)

C4 Chris Franks: Pa drafodaethau mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi eu cynnal gyda Gweinidogion Llywodraeth y DU ynglŷn â’r rhwydwaith swyddfeydd post yng Nghymru? OAQ(3)0446(FM)

The First Minister: While post office policy is non-devolved, as we all know, the Minister, Brian Gibbons, and the Deputy Minister, Leighton Andrews, have had discussions with Huw Irranca-Davies, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales, on this. Leighton Andrews has recently written to Pat McFadden, the Minister in the relevant department at Westminster, about this.

Y Prif Weinidog: Er nad yw polisi swyddfeydd post yn fater datganoledig, fel y gwyddom, mae’r Gweinidog, Brian Gibbons, a’r Dirprwy Weinidog, Leighton Andrews, wedi cynnal trafodaethau gyda Huw Irranca-Davies, Is-ysgrifennydd Seneddol Cymru, am y mater. Yn ddiweddar, ysgrifennodd Leighton Andrews at Pat McFadden, y Gweinidog yn yr adran berthnasol yn San Steffan, am y mater hwn.

Chris Franks: You may have read Postwatch comments about what Plaid is calling the 'savage cull’ of post offices. Postwatch recognises that there will be problems with access due to the proposed closures. 'One Wales’ agrees to reinstate the post office development fund. Can you tell me when this will happen, and will you urge people to visit www.saveourpostoffice.plaidcymru.org to sign Plaid’s petition opposing the cuts? Local residents should make their views known to the post office directly.

Chris Franks: Efallai eich bod wedi darllen sylwadau Golwg ar Bost am yr hyn y mae Plaid Cymru’n ei alw’n 'ddifa milain’ ar swyddfeydd post. Mae Golwg ar Bost yn cydnabod y bydd problemau o ran mynediad o ganlyniad i’r cau arfaethedig. Mae 'Cymru’n Un’ yn cytuno i adfer y gronfa datblygu swyddfeydd post. A allwch ddweud wrthyf pryd y bydd hyn yn digwydd, ac a anogwch bobl i fynd i http://www.achubeinswyddfeyddpost.plaidcymru.org/ i lofnodi deiseb Plaid Cymru yn gwrthwynebu’r toriadau? Dylai trigolion lleol roi gwybod i swyddfa’r post yn uniongyrchol beth yw eu barn.

The First Minister: I think that your reference to a website is the political equivalent of a Mickey Finn, whereby concern over post offices might have something to do with recruitment of political party support. It is a fair tactic at the moment, I suppose. With regard to the post office development fund, once the pattern of services proposed by the Post Office is clear, it will be reopened. It is a little difficult. As we are only currently dealing with one area of Wales having closure proposals, we cannot yet determine the PODF reopening date, but it will be reopened.

Y Prif Weinidog: Credaf fod eich cyfeiriad at wefan yn cyfateb mewn termau gwleidyddol i Mickey Finn, lle y gallai pryder am swyddfeydd post fod yn gysylltiedig rywsut â recriwtio cefnogaeth i blaid wleidyddol. Mae’n debyg ei bod yn dacteg deg ar hyn o bryd. O ran y gronfa datblygu swyddfeydd post, cyn gynted ag y bydd patrwm y gwasanaethau a gynigir gan Swyddfa’r Post yn eglur, caiff ei hailagor. Mae’n anodd braidd. Gan nad ydym ar hyn o bryd ond yn delio ag un ardal yng Nghymru sy’n wynebu cynigion i gau, ni allwn roi dyddiad ar gyfer ailagor y gronfa hyd yma, ond caiff ei hailagor.

2.20 p.m.

The Leader of the Opposition (Nick Bourne): First Minister, you speak as if post office closures were not happening already, but we have had 214 post office closures since you have been First Minister. We have had 10 so far this year in my own region, including in Letterston recently and, just last week, Llechryd was informed of the closure there too. I notice that the First Minister is keen to distance himself from the Post Office, presumably on the basis that it has been privatised by Labour, but Labour at Westminster still remains in control of the Post Office. What representations are you making about Government business going through post offices? Most of that has been cut off and it is affecting them severely. That is one of the reasons for all these closures.

Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid (Nick Bourne): Brif Weinidog, yr ydych yn siarad fel pe na bai swyddfeydd post yn cau eisoes, ond mae 214 swyddfa bost wedi cau ers pan ydych yn Brif Weinidog. Mae 10 wedi cau yn fy rhanbarth hyd yn hyn eleni, gan gynnwys un yn ddiweddar yn Nhretelert, a’r wythnos diwethaf hysbyswyd Llechryd y byddai’n cau yno hefyd. Sylwaf fod y Prif Weinidog yn eiddgar i ymbellhau oddi wrth Swyddfa’r Post, a chymeraf fod hynny oherwydd mai’r Blaid Lafur a’i preifateiddiodd, ond Llafur yn San Steffan sy’n dal i reoli Swyddfa’r Post. Pa sylwadau yr ydych yn eu cyflwyno ynglŷn â busnes y Llywodraeth yn mynd drwy swyddfeydd post? Mae’r rhan fwyaf o hynny wedi’i ddiddymu, ac mae’n cael effaith lem arnynt. Mae hynny’n un o’r rhesymau pam mae cynifer o swyddfeydd yn cau.

The First Minister: You are right that post office closures have come and gone and have happened at all times, during all periods of Government. Below the Crown Post Office level, they are small businesses and people decide to retire or sell them on, and sometimes they cannot sell them so they close. That has always happened. The issue now is about the whole future of post offices following the virtual withdrawal of benefit and pension payments, which are now going electronically into people’s bank accounts. That has threatened the viability of the Post Office’s network as well as of the individual businesses.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydych yn gywir bod swyddfeydd post yn cau yn fater sydd wedi mynd a dod ac wedi digwydd drwy’r amser, yn ystod cyfnod pob Llywodraeth. Islaw lefel Swyddfa Bost y Goron, busnesau bach ydynt, a bydd pobl yn penderfynu ymddeol neu eu gwerthu, ac weithiau ni allant eu gwerthu ac felly byddant yn cau. Mae hynny wedi digwydd erioed. Yn awr, mae’n fater o ddyfodol cyffredinol swyddfeydd post, gan na chânt eu defnyddio bellach i godi budd-daliadau a thaliadau pensiwn, a delir yn electronig erbyn hyn i gyfrifon banc pobl. Mae hynny wedi bygwth hyfywedd rhwydwaith Swyddfa’r Post yn ogystal â’r busnesau unigol.

The Westminster Government is continuing to pay £150 million subsidy to keep post offices open, especially in rural areas, and we would like to see it keep more open, but it says that that is the most subsidy that it can afford to pay. There is a balance that has to be struck by all Governments with regard to the degree to which you subsidise a network of this kind. We want to ensure that people are not living too far away from post offices. Could we put more business through post offices? We are not major providers of that kind of business, namely pensions, benefits and so on, but, were there opportunities, we would be happy to place our business with the Post Office’s network.

Mae Llywodraeth San Steffan yn parhau i dalu cymhorthdal o £150 miliwn i gadw swyddfeydd post ar agor, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd gwledig, a hoffem ei gweld yn cadw mwy ar agor, ond dywed mai dyna’r cymhorthdal mwyaf y gall fforddio’i dalu. Rhaid i bob Llywodraeth gael cydbwysedd o ran faint o gymhorthdal i’w roi i rwydwaith o’r fath. Yr ydym am sicrhau nad yw pobl yn byw’n rhy bell oddi wrth swyddfeydd post. A allem roi mwy o fusnes drwy swyddfeydd post? O ran y math hwnnw o fusnes, sef pensiynau, budd-daliadau ac yn y blaen, nid ydym yn ddarparwyr mawr, ond, petai cyfleoedd yn bodoli, byddem yn barod i osod ein busnes gyda rhwydwaith Swyddfa’r Post.

Nick Bourne: The First Minister is right that closures are nothing new, but I have looked at the figures over the last week and they show that the figures have been accelerating, which means that, as the network becomes smaller, a higher proportion of it is closing every year. That has been happening over the last 10 years, as more have been closing, representing a higher proportion. However, leaving that to one side, the point that I am making is not just about your own business as an Assembly Government—although I welcome what you have said on that—it is about putting pressure on Westminster and not just with regard to benefits, but passport renewals, TV licences and so on, namely things that are being scaled down and which could easily be provided. We should not just look at this in economic terms, because a post office is not just a business, it is the heartbeat of a community, and post office closures in urban and rural Wales is affecting communities.

Nick Bourne: Mae’r Prif Weinidog yn gywir nad yw cau swyddfeydd post yn rhywbeth newydd, ond yr wyf wedi edrych ar y ffigurau yn ystod yr wythnos ddiwethaf ac maent yn dangos bod y ffigurau wedi bod yn cyflymu, sy’n golygu, wrth i’r rhwydwaith leihau, fod cyfran uwch ohono’n cau bob blwyddyn. Mae hynny wedi bod yn digwydd dros y 10 mlynedd diwethaf, wrth i fwy ohonynt gau, a hynny’n golygu cyfran uwch. Fodd bynnag, a rhoi hynny o’r neilltu, nid yw fy mhwynt yn gyfyngedig i’ch busnes chi eich hun fel Llywodraeth y Cynulliad—er fy mod yn croesawu’r hyn a ddywedwyd gennych am hynny—ond mae’n ymwneud â rhoi pwysau ar San Steffan, ac nid yn unig o ran budd-daliadau, ond adnewyddu pasportau, trwyddedau teledu ac yn y blaen, sef pethau sy’n cael eu lleihau ac y gellid eu darparu’n rhwydd. Ni ddylem edrych ar hyn o safbwynt economaidd yn unig, oherwydd nid busnes yn unig yw swyddfa bost, ond curiad calon cymuned, ac mae cau swyddfeydd post yng Nghymru drefol ac yng Nghymru wledig yn effeithio ar gymunedau.

Plaid Cymru seems to be semi-detached on this issue. It wants to be the opposition on this issue. I thought that it was part of the Government, but apparently not. [Interruption.] It is sort of part of the Government. The issue is about trying to support a community and what you can do on that by speaking to the Westminster Government.

Ymddengys fod Plaid Cymru wedi lled-wahanu o ran y mater hwn. Mae arni eisiau bod yn wrthblaid ar y mater hwn. Yr oeddwn yn credu ei bod yn rhan o’r Llywodraeth, ond ymddengys nad ydyw. [Torri ar draws.] Mae’n rhyw fath o ran o’r Llywodraeth. Mae’r mater yn ymwneud â cheisio cefnogi cymuned a’r hyn y gallwch ei wneud o ran hynny drwy siarad â Llywodraeth San Steffan.

The First Minister: I do not think that the Conservatives have completely thrown away their commitment to competitive tendering—I believe that they invented it—but when the television licences contract was put out to tender, the Post Office hoped to win it but did not. You wonder why that was the case, but it was done on competitive tendering and, as far as I know, your party believes in that. Therefore, there is no point in your crying crocodile tears over that. It is tough but it happened. We do not know why it happened because, obviously, we were not involved.

Y Prif Weinidog: Ni chredaf fod y Ceidwadwyr wedi cael gwared yn llwyr â’u hymrwymiad i dendro cystadleuol—credaf mai hwy a ddyfeisiodd hynny—ond pan roddwyd y contract trwyddedau teledu ar gyfer tendro, yr oedd Swyddfa’r Post yn gobeithio’i ennill, ond ni wnaeth. Yr ydych yn pendroni pam y digwyddodd hynny, ond fe’i gwnaethpwyd ar sail tendro cystadleuol ac mae eich plaid chi’n credu yn hynny, hyd y gwn. Felly, nid oes dim diben ichi wylo dagrau rhagrithiol am hynny. Mae’n galed, ond digwyddodd. Nid ydym yn gwybod pam y digwyddodd hynny oherwydd, yn amlwg, nid oedd gennym ran yn y broses.

Community ownership and a sense of community ownership of post offices, as per the Post Office’s latest relaunch on television, is important. We would support that and the Secretary of State at what was then called the Department of Trade and Industry, Alan Johnson, made the same point about community ownership and having a feeling of community ownership of post offices. That is why we want them to work with credit unions and to co-locate with other community services. We want local government and us to find methods of routing more business through them, to make more businesses viable, and to reopen the PODF as soon as that makes some sort of sense, because we have some sort of visibility of which post offices are going to stay open.

Mae perchenogaeth gymunedol ac ymdeimlad o berchenogaeth gymunedol ar swyddfeydd post, yn unol ag ail-lansiad diweddaraf Swyddfa’r Post ar y teledu, yn bwysig. Byddem yn cefnogi hynny, a chododd yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn yr hyn a elwid ar y pryd yn Adran Masnach a Diwydiant, Alan Johnson, yr un pwynt am berchenogaeth gymunedol ac ymdeimlad o berchnogaeth gymunedol ar swyddfeydd post. Dyna pam yr ydym am iddynt weithio gydag undebau credyd a chydleoli gyda gwasanaethau cymunedol eraill. Yr ydym am i lywodraeth leol a ninnau ddod o hyd i ddulliau o roi mwy o fusnes drwyddynt, er mwyn gwneud mwy o fusnesau’n hyfyw, ac ailagor y gronfa datblygu swyddfeydd post cyn gynted ag y bydd hynny’n gwneud rhyw fath o synnwyr, oherwydd y mae gennym ryw fath o syniad pa swyddfeydd post a fydd yn aros ar agor.

Nick Bourne: I come back to my point: what you say is fine up to a point but we know that most of the public business going through post offices has traditionally been central Government business, so unless you are speaking to Alan Johnson and the Government at Westminster about what they can do to reverse some of these decisions, we are going to see these post offices close. There is also talk—where post offices have been in receipt of a development grant—of clawing back the money from the postmaster or the postmistress, although it is not their fault that the post office is closing; you are getting at the wrong people. Most of this is the fault of the Labour Government at Westminster; if you are not speaking to it and choosing instead to clobber the postmaster or the postmistress, it is deeply unfair and inequitable.

Nick Bourne: Dychwelaf at fy mhwynt: mae’r hyn a ddywedwch yn iawn hyd at ryw bwynt, ond gwyddom fod y rhan fwyaf o fusnes cyhoeddus sy’n mynd drwy swyddfeydd post, yn draddodiadol, wedi bod yn fusnes y Llywodraeth ganolog, felly oni bai eich bod yn siarad ag Alan Johnson a Llywodraeth San Steffan am yr hyn y gallant ei wneud i wrthdroi rhai o’r penderfyniadau hyn, byddwn yn gweld y swyddfeydd post hyn yn cau. Mae sôn hefyd—lle y mae swyddfeydd post wedi cael grant datblygu—am adfachu’r arian gan y postfeistr neu’r bostfeistres, er nad eu bai hwy yw bod y swyddfa bost yn cau; yr ydych yn erlid y bobl anghywir. Bai Llywodraeth Lafur San Steffan yw’r rhan fwyaf o hyn; os nad ydych yn siarad â hwy, gan ddewis colbio’r postfeistr neu’r bostfeistres yn hytrach na hynny, mae’n annheg ac yn anghyfiawn dros ben.

The First Minister: The clawback arrangements are standard public finance arrangements, whereby, if a post office closes within three years, we can claw it back pro rata. Lately, I believe that it is five years’ clawback, because some people who had been awarded the PODF money in principle were refusing to take it from us, because they were worried that the Post Office might close them down. Apart from the small minority that are Crown Post Offices, they are businesses, so we must have some method of protecting the award of public money. In reopening the post office development fund, we are trying to do it on the basis of not attaching it as much to the business as a business, but as a community service, and trying to put our grant into the evolution of the post offices into community-based businesses. That is very much along the lines that you suggested, and the lines that Alan Johnson espoused when he was the relevant Secretary of State before the change of Prime Minister.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae’r trefniadau adfachu’n drefniadau cyllid cyhoeddus safonol, lle y gallwn ei adfachu pro rata os bydd swyddfa bost yn cau o fewn 3 blynedd. Yn ddiweddar, credaf mai 5 mlynedd o adfachu ydyw, oherwydd yr oedd rhai pobl yr oedd arian o’r gronfa datblygu swyddfeydd post wedi’i ddyfarnu iddynt mewn egwyddor yn gwrthod ei gymryd gennym, am eu bod yn poeni y gallai Swyddfa’r Post eu cau. Ar wahân i’r lleiafrif bach sy’n Swyddfeydd Post y Goron, busnesau ydynt, felly rhaid inni gael rhyw ddull o ddiogelu pan fo arian cyhoeddus yn cael ei ddyfarnu. Wrth ailagor y gronfa datblygu swyddfeydd post, yr ydym yn ceisio gwneud hynny ar sail peidio â’i rhoi  ynghlwm i’r fath raddau â’r busnes fel busnes, ond fel gwasanaeth cymunedol, ac yn ceisio rhoi ein grant tuag at droi’r swyddfeydd post yn fusnesau sy’n seiliedig ar y gymuned. Mae hynny’n debyg iawn i’r hyn a awgrymwyd gennych, a barn Alan Johnson pan oedd yn Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros y maes hwn cyn inni gael Prif Weinidog newydd.

Christine Chapman: The proposed closure of five post offices in my constituency has been met with concern by the people of those communities. I will give you an example of one of them. Last week, I attended a public meeting in Penderyn to discuss the issue. The proposal could not have come at a worse time for that community, as a great deal of investment has been put into moving the post office into the newly refurbished community centre, for the benefit of the whole community. In time, there was also a possibility of expanding this service into a shop. Do you agree that, at a time when we are trying to revitalise our communities, particularly in areas such as Penderyn—and that is only one example—we should be working to boost services, not take them away?

Christine Chapman: Mynegwyd pryder am y cynlluniau arfaethedig i gau pum swyddfa bost yn fy etholaeth gan bobl y cymunedau hynny. Rhoddaf enghraifft ichi o un ohonynt. Yr wythnos diwethaf, yr oeddwn yn bresennol mewn cyfarfod cyhoeddus ym Mhenderyn i drafod y mater. Ni allai’r cynnig fod wedi dod ar adeg waeth i’r gymuned honno, oherwydd buddsoddwyd llawer i symud y swyddfa bost i’r ganolfan gymunedol sydd newydd gael ei hailwampio, er budd yr holl gymuned. Gydag amser, yr oedd posibilrwydd hefyd i ehangu’r gwasanaeth hwn yn siop. A gytunwch, ar adeg pan ydym yn ceisio adfywio ein cymunedau, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd megis Penderyn—ac un enghraifft yn unig yw honno—y dylem fod yn gweithio i roi hwb i wasanaethau, ac nid i gael gwared â hwy?

The First Minister: Looking at the list of 31 post offices proposed for closure in the south Wales central block—the Vale of Glamorgan, Cardiff, Rhondda Cynon Taf and Merthyr—I noticed that Penderyn stands out as being a relatively isolated community. I presume that there is not another post office in Penderyn, and that the one closing is the only one that serves that area. I am not sure where the nearest one would be. It appears to fit the criterion of being a community-oriented business, from its community location. Those points must all be made in trying to plead for a change of mind by Post Office Ltd on the specific pattern of closures.

Y Prif Weinidog: Wrth edrych ar y rhestr o 31 swyddfa bost y cynigir eu cau ym mloc canol de Cymru—Bro Morgannwg, Caerdydd, Rhondda Cynon Taf a Merthyr Tudful—sylwais fod Penderyn yn amlwg fel cymuned sy’n gymharol anghysbell. Cymeraf nad oes swyddfa bost arall ym Mhenderyn, ac mai’r un sy’n cau yw’r unig un sy’n gwasanaethu’r ardal honno. Nid wyf yn siŵr ym mha le y byddai’r un agosaf. Ymddengys ei bod yn bodloni’r maen prawf ei bod yn fusnes sydd yn y gymuned, yn ôl ei lleoliad yn y gymuned. Rhaid codi’r pwyntiau hynny i gyd wrth geisio pledio am newid meddwl gan Swyddfa’r Post Cyf am y patrwm penodol o gau swyddfeydd.

What worries me is whether a post office that is proposed for closure is being so proposed because it is the one that was most dependent on benefits payments and therefore has lost the biggest percentage of its business. That would put it in an area with the most pensioners and the most people on social security and other benefits. Where post offices serve areas where the percentage dependent on benefits is lowest, namely the better-off areas, they have not suffered as badly, so seem to be viable. Therefore, the closures will tend to concentrate on the most deprived communities.

Yr hyn sy’n peri pryder imi yw a yw swyddfa bost y cynigir ei chau yn cael ei chynnig felly am mai honno a oedd yn dibynnu fwyaf ar dalu budd-daliadau, ac sydd felly wedi colli’r ganran fwyaf o’i busnes. Byddai hynny’n golygu ei bod mewn ardal sydd â mwyaf o bensiynwyr a mwyaf o bobl sy’n derbyn nawdd cymdeithasol a budd-daliadau eraill. Lle y bydd swyddfeydd post yn gwasanaethu ardaloedd lle y mae’r ganran sy’n dibynnu ar fudd-daliadau ar ei hisaf, sef yr ardaloedd cyfoethocach, nid ydynt wedi dioddef cymaint, felly ymddengys eu bod yn hyfyw. Felly, bydd y swyddfeydd post sy’n cau’n tueddu i fod yn y cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig.

The Leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrat Group (Michael German): You say, First Minister, that post offices serve a major community interest. If that is their primary purpose, I welcome your remarks. However, the fact is that it is the London Government that has directed the Post Office to close nearly one in five post offices in Wales. Those numbers mean that that direction is being applied ruthlessly across communities, where the only solution may be to cross a main road, a river or a mountain, or get an infrequent bus, to find a post office.

Arweinydd Grŵp Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru (Michael German): Dywedwch, Brif Weinidog, fod swyddfeydd post o fudd mawr i gymunedau. Os mai hynny yw eu prif ddiben, croesawaf eich sylwadau. Fodd bynnag, y gwir yw mai Llywodraeth Llundain sydd wedi rhoi cyfarwyddyd i Swyddfa’r Post gau bron un o bob pum swyddfa bost yng Nghymru. Golyga hynny fod y cyfarwyddyd hwnnw’n cael ei roi ar waith yn ddidostur ar draws cymunedau, ac mai’r unig ateb efallai fydd gorfod croesi ffordd fawr, afon neu fynydd, neu ddal bws anfynych, er mwyn dod o hyd i swyddfa bost.

I have a question about your criteria for the repayment of the post office development fund. Last week, Carwyn Jones told us that Ministers have told Post Office Ltd that the Welsh Assembly Government will recover the payments from the beneficiaries. A week before that, the Deputy Minister said that the grant recipient of the post office development fund may be required to repay the grant, and that Welsh Ministers are entitled to require repayment of part or all of the grants. In other words, it does not seem to be the obligation that one Minister is saying that you have to make on each of these recipients. Given that there are three post offices in the current round that have received post office development fund money, will you be requiring repayment from them or will you exercise the discretion that you claim to have?

Mae gennyf gwestiwn am eich meini prawf ar gyfer ad-dalu’r gronfa datblygu swyddfeydd post. Yr wythnos diwethaf, dywedodd Carwyn Jones wrthym fod Gweinidogion wedi dweud wrth Swyddfa’r Post y bydd Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru’n adennill y taliadau gan y buddiolwyr. Wythnos cyn hynny, dywedodd y Dirprwy Weinidog y gall fod yn rhaid i dderbynnydd grant y gronfa datblygu swyddfeydd post ad-dalu’r grant, a bod hawl gan Weinidogion Cymru fynnu bod rhan o’r grantiau’n cael ei had-dalu, neu’r grantiau cyfan. Mewn geiriau eraill, nid yw’n ymddangos mai dyma’r rhwymedigaeth y dywed un Gweinidog fod yn rhaid ichi ei gwneud ar gyfer pob un o’r derbynwyr hyn. O ystyried bod tair swyddfa bost yn y cylch cyfredol sydd wedi derbyn arian o’r gronfa datblygu swyddfeydd post, a fyddwch yn gofyn iddynt am ad-daliad ynteu a arferwch y disgresiwn yr honnwch ei fod gennych?

2.30 p.m.

The First Minister: As we are guardians of public money we have to seek to recover the post office development fund payment either in full or in part, depending on how much time has lapsed since the grant payment was made. However, consideration would have to be given to the recoverability of the money. The principle is that if a Government programme causes a business to close to which we have, in all good faith, made a grant payment, we have to seek the recovery of that grant.

Y Prif Weinidog: Gan ein bod yn warcheidwaid arian cyhoeddus mae’n rhaid inni geisio adennill taliad y gronfa datblygu swyddfeydd post un ai’n llawn neu’n rhannol, gan ddibynnu ar faint o amser sydd wedi mynd heibio ers talu’r grant. Fodd bynnag, byddai’n rhaid ystyried i ba raddau y gellir adennill yr arian. Yr egwyddor yw os yw rhaglen gan y Llywodraeth yn achosi i fusnes gau a ninnau, gyda phob ewyllys da, wedi talu grant iddo, rhaid inni geisio adennill y grant hwnnw.

Michael German: Let me remind you of a second condition, which was applied to the post office development fund but, so far, has had no airing. Post Office Ltd was asked to confirm that it had no plans to close post offices under the urban network reinvention or other rationalisation plans, and an agreement was reached with Post Office Ltd that it would not take any proactive steps to close any post office that had received post office development fund money until 31 March 2008 at the earliest, which is next year. However, three post offices—in Splott Road, Sanquahar Street and St Mellons—all of whom received post office development fund money, are being required to close well before that date. Therefore, if you have one rule for one and another rule for the other, which of these rules will we apply? Will it be the 2008 rule or the great clawback of money?

Michael German: Gadewch imi eich atgoffa am ail amod, a osodwyd ar y gronfa datblygu swyddfeydd post ond nad yw, hyd yma, wedi cael sylw. Gofynnwyd i Swyddfa’r Post Cyf gadarnhau nad oedd ganddi ddim cynlluniau i gau swyddfeydd post dan y cynllun i ailddyfeisio’r rhwydwaith trefol na chynlluniau rhesymoli eraill, a daethpwyd i gytundeb â Swyddfa’r Post Cyf na chymerai ddim camau rhagweithiol i gau dim un swyddfa bost a oedd wedi cael arian o’r gronfa datblygu swyddfeydd post tan 31 Mawrth 2008 fan gynharaf, sef y flwyddyn nesaf. Fodd bynnag, mae tair swyddfa bost—yn Heol Splott, Stryd Sanquahar a Llaneirwg—a hwythau i gyd wedi cael arian o’r gronfa datblygu swyddfeydd post, yn gorfod cau ymhell cyn y dyddiad hwnnw. Felly, os oes un rheol i’r naill ac un arall i’r llall, pa un o’r rheolau hyn a rown ar waith? Ai rheol 2008 ynteu’r adfachu ariannol mawr?

The First Minister: I have not followed all of the complexities of that question and its preamble, Mike, so I will have to read the Record of Proceedings tomorrow. However, it is clear to me that where we, in good faith, had an understanding with Post Office Ltd, at the time that the post office development fund was opened and grants were being sought, awarded and accepted by the businesses concerned, on the basis of post office plans as they were then known, that is a transaction that we undertook in good faith, but with the clawback arrangement built into it. Some postmasters or postmistresses refused the grant on the basis that they were worried about the clawback charge. Since then, the UK Government has ordered the Post Office to reduce the subsidy, and they intend to agree on the number—which is some 2,000—of post offices to close. That is not the same agreement that we had with Post Office Ltd some four years ago when we were awarding the grants. Therefore, the question is whether it is a matter for the UK Government to assist us in seeking the clawbacks. It was an override from the UK Government that was a force majeure, if you like, on top of the agreement that we had with Post Office Ltd some four years ago when the fund grants were being made.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid wyf wedi dilyn holl gymhlethdodau’r cwestiwn hwnnw a’i ragymadrodd, Mike, felly bydd yn rhaid imi ddarllen Cofnod y Trafodion yfory. Fodd bynnag, mae’n amlwg i mi, lle yr oedd gennym, yn ddiddwyll, ddealltwriaeth gyda Swyddfa’r Post Cyf, ar yr adeg yr agorwyd y gronfa datblygu swyddfeydd post a phan oedd y busnesau dan sylw yn ceisio grantiau, yn eu cael ac yn eu derbyn, ar sail cynlluniau Swyddfa’r Post fel yr oeddent yn hysbys ar y pryd, ein bod wedi gwneud hynny’n ddidwyll, ond gan gynnwys y trefniant adfachu. Gwrthododd rhai postfeistri a phostfeistresi’r grant oherwydd eu bod yn bryderus am y tâl adfachu. Ers hynny, mae Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig wedi dweud wrth Swyddfa’r Post am leihau’r cymhorthdal, a bwriadant gytuno ar nifer y swyddfeydd post i’w cau, sef rhyw 2,000. Nid yr un cytundeb yw hynny â’r un a oedd gennym gyda Swyddfa’r Post Cyf ryw bedair blynedd yn ôl pan oeddem yn rhoi’r grantiau. Felly, y cwestiwn yw a yw’n fater i Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig ein cynorthwyo i geisio cael yr adfachiadau. Yr oedd yn wrth-wneud gan Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig a oedd yn force majeure, os mynnwch, ar ben y cytundeb a oedd gennym gyda Swyddfa’r Post Cyf ryw bedair blynedd yn ôl pan oedd grantiau’r gronfa’n cael eu rhoi.

Michael German: It seems that you have the right, First Minister, to say that a condition was received by Post Office Ltd, but not about the urban reinvention scheme that was in place at the time. It was written into the agreement that Post Office Ltd would not take any proactive steps to close any post office that had received post office development fund money until 31 March 2008 at the earliest. That is the contractual position between you and Post Office Ltd. It seems that you have an obligation to enforce that condition so that post offices are not repaying you money because they have been asked to close earlier. The breach has been caused either by the UK Government or by Post Office Ltd.

Michael German: Mae’n ymddangos bod yr hawl gennych, Brif Weinidog, i ddweud bod Swyddfa’r Post Cyf wedi derbyn amod, ond nid ynghylch y cynllun ailddyfeisio trefol a oedd mewn grym ar y pryd. Yr oedd yn rhan o’r cytundeb na fyddai Swyddfa’r Post Cyf yn cymryd dim camau rhagweithiol i gau unrhyw swyddfa bost a oedd wedi cael arian o’r gronfa datblygu swyddfeydd post tan 31 Mawrth 2008 fan gynharaf. Dyna’r sefyllfa gontractiol rhyngoch chi a Swyddfa’r Post Cyf. Mae’n ymddangos bod rhwymedigaeth arnoch i orfodi’r amod hwnnw fel nad yw swyddfeydd post yn ad-dalu arian ichi oherwydd bod yr awdurdodau wedi gofyn iddynt gau yn gynharach. Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig neu Swyddfa’r Post Cyf sydd wedi achosi’r tor-amod.

If you hang on until the end of this process before you reopen your post office development fund, those post offices that survive in this whole new regime will not be able to receive any support to develop their businesses until the end of next year at the earliest. Would it not make sense to start this process now, because you will have the first tranche in Cardiff and the Valleys sorted by the end of January? You could start the process and reopen your fund at that time.

Os arhoswch tan ddiwedd y broses hon cyn ailagor eich cronfa datblygu swyddfeydd post, ni fydd y swyddfeydd post hynny a fydd yn goroesi dan y drefn newydd hon yn gallu cael dim cymorth i ddatblygu eu busnesau tan ddiwedd y flwyddyn nesaf fan gynharaf. Oni fyddai’n gwneud synnwyr cychwyn y broses hon yn awr, oherwydd bydd y gyfran gyntaf yng Nghaerdydd a’r Cymoedd wedi’i threfnu gennych erbyn diwedd Ionawr? Gallech gychwyn y broses ac ailagor eich cronfa bryd hynny.

The First Minister: This is the difficulty of dealing with matters that would be more appropriately discussed by commercial lawyers, rather than by politicians. As First Minister, I can say that we regard this as a compulsory closure programme by way of the force majeure imposed by the UK Government on Post Office Ltd. Therefore, the understanding that we had with Post Office Ltd has been breached by what has happened as a result of the UK Government’s new policy on post offices, thereby causing the closure, through limiting the subsidy, of some 2,000 post offices. We therefore believe that Post Office Ltd should recognise that in its compensation arrangements for postmasters and postmistresses who are going out of business as a result. However, that is really a matter for commercial lawyers.

Y Prif Weinidog: Dyma sy’n anodd wrth ddelio â materion y byddai’n fwy priodol i gyfreithwyr masnachol, yn hytrach na gwleidyddion, eu trafod. Fel Prif Weinidog, gallaf ddweud ein bod yn ystyried hon yn rhaglen i gau’n orfodol yn wyneb y force majeure a orfodir gan Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig ar Swyddfa’r Post Cyf. Felly, mae’r ddealltwriaeth a oedd gennym gyda Swyddfa’r Post Cyf wedi’i thorri gan yr hyn sydd wedi digwydd o ganlyniad i bolisi newydd Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig ynghylch swyddfeydd post, gan beri, drwy gyfyngu’r cymhorthdal, fod rhyw 2,000 o swyddfeydd post yn cau. Credwn felly y dylai Swyddfa’r Post Cyf gydnabod hynny yn ei threfniadau iawndal i bostfeistri a phostfeistresi y mae eu busnesau’n dod i ben o ganlyniad i hynny. Fodd bynnag, mater i gyfreithwyr masnachol yw hynny mewn gwirionedd.

We, broadly, are accountable for public money and that is a broad political principle. We think that it is impractical to reopen the post office development fund until it is clear how the Post Office is going to deal with pleas, such as the one that Christine Chapman made earlier for Penderyn, saying that this or that post office is a special case because closing it will leave a community too isolated, because it is too far to the next post office, in a particularly difficult or deprived community or on the top of a big hill. Once we know what the pattern is, we can consider reopening the post office development fund; it is going to reopen.

Yr ydym, yn gyffredinol, yn atebol am arian cyhoeddus ac mae hynny’n egwyddor wleidyddol gyffredinol. Credwn ei bod yn anymarferol ailagor y gronfa datblygu swyddfeydd post nes y bydd yn glir sut y mae Swyddfa’r Post yn mynd i ddelio â phleon, megis yr un a wnaeth Christine Chapman yn gynharach dros Benderyn, sy’n dweud bod rhyw swyddfa bost neu’i gilydd yn achos arbennig oherwydd y bydd ei chau yn peri y bydd cymuned yn rhy ynysig, am fod gormod o bellter i’r swyddfa bost nesaf, neu am ei bod mewn cymuned arbennig o anodd neu ddifreintiedig neu ar ben rhiw serth. Pan fyddwn yn gwybod beth yw’r patrwm, gallwn ystyried ailagor y gronfa datblygu swyddfeydd post; mae’n mynd i ailagor.

Priorities in South Wales Central

Blaenoriaethau yng Nghanol De Cymru

Q5 Andrew R.T. Davies: Will the First Minister make a statement on the Welsh Assembly Government’s priorities in South Wales Central? OAQ(3)0452(FM)

C5 Andrew R.T. Davies: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am flaenoriaethau Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yng Nghanol De Cymru? OAQ(3)0452(FM)

The First Minister: Among our priorities is getting the Defence Aviation Repair Agency Metrix project off the ground in St Athan, to bring about the completion of successful negotiations on phase 2 of the children’s hospital, the opening of the third lane on the M4 from Coryton to Castleton, and the significant improvement programme on the Valley lines services.

Y Prif Weinidog: Ymysg ein blaenoriaethau mae rhoi cychwyn ar brosiect Metrix yn yr Asiantaeth Atgyweirio Awyrennau Amddiffyn yn Sain Tathan, sicrhau bod trafodaethau llwyddiannus ar gam 2 yr ysbyty plant yn cael eu cwblhau, agor y drydedd lôn ar yr M4 o Coryton i Gas-bach, a’r rhaglen welliannau sylweddol ar wasanaethau rheilffyrdd y Cymoedd.

Andrew R.T. Davies: I wish to draw your attention to the Metrix development. At the time of its announcement, all partner organisations were due a great deal of credit for delivering the Metrix 1 project. However, there is great concern in my constituency about the status of the Metrix 2 project and its financial affordability. What negotiations is the Welsh Assembly Government undertaking with the Westminster Government to secure the delivery of Metrix 2 so that the St Athan site can provide the comprehensive training academy that was desired for the area? Equally, given the tightness of the budget, irrespective of Metrix 2 arriving, is the Welsh Assembly Government able to deliver the infrastructure improvements that such a large development will demand, and which will benefit the residents of the Vale of Glamorgan?

Andrew R.T. Davies: Hoffwn dynnu’ch sylw at ddatblygiad Metrix. Pan gyhoeddwyd ef, yr oedd clod mawr yn ddyledus i’r holl gyrff sy’n bartneriaid am gyflawni prosiect Metrix 1. Fodd bynnag, mae pryder mawr yn fy etholaeth ynghylch statws prosiect Metrix 2 ac a ellir ei fforddio’n ariannol. Pa drafodaethau y mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn eu cynnal gyda Llywodraeth San Steffan i sicrhau bod Metrix 2 yn cael ei gyflawni fel y gall safle Sain Tathan ddarparu’r academi hyfforddi gynhwysfawr a ddeisyfid ar gyfer yr ardal? Yn yr un modd, o gofio mor dynn yw’r gyllideb, heb ystyried dyfodiad Metrix 2, a all Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru gwblhau’r gwelliannau yn y seilwaith y bydd datblygiad mor fawr yn gofyn amdanynt, ac a fydd o fudd i drigolion Bro Morgannwg?

The First Minister: I was hoping that you were not going to suggest that we do a bit of gap funding for the Ministry of Defence in its negotiations with the Metrix consortium over phase 1 or phase 2. Phase 1 is the jewel in the crown; it is much the bigger part of this. We are pleased that it is getting off the ground, although there will obviously be an enormous amount of legal negotiations before construction starts, probably in about 15 months. It will be an enormous development, perhaps the biggest Government investment in Wales for half a century. On the question of Metrix 2 and whether there is anything that we can do to help, we continue to try to persuade the Ministry of Defence. It does not really need to be persuaded, but it just cannot make the costs stack up at the moment. That may look different when Metrix 1 is up and running. People who are engaged in Metrix 2 training projects all over Britain on some 17 sites will look at what has been achieved at St Athan and say that that is the place that they want to be. They might then change their minds about being a bit resistant about it or demanding all sorts of difficult terms to close down the present training facility in order to move in. They may change their minds when they see the standards of accommodation and the training facilities that St Athan will provide. We continue to be confident about the delivery of all the necessary infrastructure.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr oeddwn yn gobeithio nad oeddech yn mynd i awgrymu y dylem ddarparu ychydig o arian pontio i’r Weinyddiaeth Amddiffyn yn ei thrafodaethau gyda chonsortiwm Metrix ynghylch cam 1 neu gam 2. Cam 1 yw’r trysor; dyma’r rhan fwyaf o hyn o lawer. Yr ydym yn falch ei fod yn dechrau arni, er y bydd peth wmbredd o drafodaethau cyfreithiol, wrth reswm, cyn dechrau’r gwaith adeiladu, ymhen rhyw 15 mis, mae’n debyg. Bydd yn ddatblygiad aruthrol, buddsoddiad mwyaf y Llywodraeth yng Nghymru ers hanner canrif efallai. O ran Metrix 2 ac a oes unrhyw beth y gallwn ni ei wneud i helpu, yr ydym yn parhau i geisio perswadio’r Weinyddiaeth Amddiffyn. Nid oes angen ei pherswadio mewn gwirionedd, ond nid yw’n gallu cael trefn ar y costau ar hyn o bryd. Gall hynny edrych yn wahanol pan fydd Metrix 1 wedi cael ei draed dano. Bydd pobl sy’n gweithio ym mhrosiectau hyfforddi Metrix 2 ledled Prydain ar ryw 17 o safleoedd yn edrych ar yr hyn sydd wedi’i gyflawni yn Sain Tathan ac yn dweud mai dyna lle y mae arnynt eisiau bod. Wedyn gallent newid eu meddyliau ynghylch bod ychydig yn wrthwynebus iddo neu fynnu pob math o delerau anodd i gau’r cyfleuster hyfforddi presennol er mwyn symud i mewn. Efallai y newidiant eu meddyliau pan welant safonau’r adeiladau a’r cyfleusterau hyfforddi a gynigir gan Sain Tathan. Yr ydym yn parhau’n hyderus ynghylch sicrhau’r holl seilwaith angenrheidiol.

Leanne Wood: One of the Government’s priorities in South Wales Central, indeed for the whole of Wales, is the economy. You will no doubt be aware of the announcement made yesterday regarding the future of the Remploy factories in Wales. There was some good news, with the announcement that the Aberdare factory will remain open, even though workers there are concerned that the customer services department is to be lost. However, yesterday I went to the Treforest factory and saw for myself how devastated the workforce was that its factory was not on the list of factories to be kept open. Treforest Remploy has a very good business plan, and it is situated in an area, as you will be aware, where there is not exactly an abundance of decent jobs. Therefore, what are you doing to further press the case of Treforest Remploy with your colleagues in Westminster?

Leanne Wood: Un o flaenoriaethau’r Llywodraeth yng Nghanol De Cymru, yn wir i Gymru gyfan, yw’r economi. Byddwch yn ymwybodol, mae’n siŵr, o’r cyhoeddiad a wnaethpwyd ddoe ynglŷn â dyfodol ffatrïoedd Remploy yng Nghymru. Yr oedd rhywfaint o newyddion da, o ran y cyhoeddiad y bydd ffatri Aberdâr yn aros ar agor, er bod gweithwyr yno’n pryderu y collir yr adran gwasanaethau cwsmeriaid. Fodd bynnag, ddoe euthum i ffatri Trefforest a gwelais drosof fy hun gymaint o ergyd ydoedd i’r gweithlu nad oedd eu ffatri ar y rhestr o ffatrïoedd y bwriedir eu cadw ar agor. Mae gan Remploy Trefforest gynllun busnes da iawn, ac mae wedi’i leoli mewn ardal, fel y gwyddoch, na ellir dweud ei bod yn gyforiog o swyddi da. Felly, beth yr ydych yn ei wneud i ddadlau dros achos Remploy Trefforest ymhellach gyda’ch cyd-aelodau yn San Steffan?

The First Minister: In your preamble you referred to the fact that many Remploy factories previously earmarked for closure are no longer to be closed. I think that Abertillery has been saved, as have Cwmbach, Aberdare and Wrexham, on top of Bridgend, which was announced earlier. The rationalisation of the Neath, Brynamman and Ystradgynlais factories into one is one continuing problem, and Treforest is the other. It sticks out like a sore thumb. It probably makes the people of Treforest feel worse than they would if there were other factories designated for closure. I understand that the good news is that a private company—although it would not want to take it over as a Remploy plant because that is not possible—has expressed a great deal of interest in taking over the Treforest operation. Although it would cease to be a Remploy factory, that company would want to continue employment for many of the current employees, and we hope that that comes off.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yn eich rhagymadrodd cyfeiriasoch at y ffaith bod llawer o ffatrïoedd Remploy a oedd wedi’u clustnodi ar gyfer cau bellach am gael eu cadw ar agor. Credaf fod Abertyleri wedi’i harbed, ynghyd â Chwm-bach, Aberdâr a Wrecsam, yn ogystal â Phen-y-bont ar Ogwr, a gyhoeddwyd yn gynharach. Mae ad-drefnu ffatrïoedd Castell-nedd, Brynaman ac Ystradgynlais yn un ffatri yn un broblem sy’n parhau, a Threfforest yw’r llall. Mae mor amlwg â llaid ar farch gwyn. Mae’n debyg ei fod yn gwneud i bobl Trefforest deimlo’n waeth nag y byddent petai ffatrïoedd eraill i gau. Deallaf mai’r newyddion da yw bod cwmni preifat—er na fyddai arno eisiau ei chymryd fel ffatri Remploy oherwydd nid yw hynny’n bosibl—wedi mynegi cryn dipyn o ddiddordeb mewn cymryd gwaith Trefforest. Er y byddai’n peidio â bod yn ffatri Remploy, byddai ar y cwmni hwnnw eisiau parhau cyflogaeth i lawer o’r gweithwyr presennol, a gobeithiwn y daw hynny i fod.

2.40 p.m.

On the status of these proposals, they have still not been signed off by the Secretary of State. They are Remploy management proposals following all sorts of pleas that have been made by us, by the GMB as the main trade union involved, and by the individual workforces. We have sometimes given assistance through Accelerate Wales, as happened in the case of Bridgend, and we will continue to press the Secretary of State on this when he is making up his mind in terms of whether he can facilitate the saving of the Remploy facility at Treforest even if, ultimately, it does not continue as a Remploy facility, but nevertheless employs many of the disabled people who work there.

Ynghylch statws y cynigion hyn, nid yw’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol wedi eu cadarnhau eto. Cynigion gan reolwyr Remploy ydynt, ar ôl pob math o bledio gennym ni, gan y GMB, sef y prif undeb llafur sy’n ymwneud â hyn, a chan y gweithluoedd unigol. Yr ydym wedi rhoi cymorth weithiau drwy Accelerate Cymru, fel y digwyddodd yn achos Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr, ac fe barhawn i bwyso ar yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol ynghylch hyn pan fydd yn gwneud ei benderfyniad o ran a all hwyluso achub y gwaith Remploy yn Nhrefforest hyd yn oed os na fydd yn parhau fel gwaith Remploy yn y diwedd, ond gan ddal i gyflogi llawer o’r bobl anabl sy’n gweithio yno serch hynny.

The Presiding Officer: Question 6, OAQ(3)0448(FM), has been withdrawn.

Delayed Transfers of Care

Oedi wrth Drosglwyddo Gofal

Q7 Michael German: Will the First Minister make a statement on delayed transfers of care? OAQ(3)0457(FM)

C7 Michael German: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal? OAQ(3)0457(FM)

The First Minister: Approximately 42,000 in-patients are discharged from hospital every month. Despite recent setbacks, recorded delays are a third less than they were in January 2004 and delay lengths are down 47 per cent. We are working with trusts and local authorities to prevent avoidable hospital admission, to improve processes, to spread best practice and to develop the range of community-based services.

Y Prif Weinidog: Caiff tua 42,000 o gleifion mewnol eu rhyddhau o ysbytai bob mis. Er gwaethaf troeon anffodus yn ddiweddar, mae’r oedi sydd wedi’i gofnodi draean yn llai nag a oedd yn Ionawr 2004 ac mae 47 y cant o ostyngiad yn hyd yr oedi. Yr ydym yn gweithio gydag ymddiriedolaethau ac awdurdodau lleol i atal derbyn pobl i ysbytai lle y gellir osgoi hynny, i wella prosesau, i ledaenu arferion gorau ac i ddatblygu’r amrediad o wasanaethau yn y gymuned.

Michael German: I know that you are aware of the auditor general’s report into this matter. At the root of the problem in trying to manage this issue is the interface between health and social care services. He recommends joint working, joint staffing and joint targets to address these. Could you tell me if you are prepared to make progress on joint budgets to allow pooled budgets to tackle these three issues?

Michael German: Gwn eich bod yn ymwybodol o adroddiad yr archwiliwr cyffredinol ar y mater hwn. Wrth wraidd y broblem wrth geisio rheoli’r mater hwn mae’r rhyng-gysylltiad rhwng gwasanaethau iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol. Mae’n argymell gweithio ar y cyd, staffio ar y cyd a gosod targedau ar y cyd er mwyn datrys hyn. A allech ddweud wrthyf a ydych yn barod i symud ymlaen gyda chyd-gyllidebau i ganiatáu cyllidebau cyfun i fynd i’r afael â’r tri mater hyn?

The First Minister: Clearly, pooled budgets would be a matter for the local health board as the commissioning body, and for the local authority’s social services department. They would need to agree to pool the budget, which we would commend strongly. Initially, the joint working arrangements for joint commissioning are probably more relevant in order to ensure a seamless service in this area. We must consider what is right for the patient in terms of, for example, early assessment, early discharge, a quick turnaround of home adaptations such as installing a stairlift, and ensuring that community psychiatric nursing support is in place if the delayed transfer of care is related to mental health rather than physical health. Almost half of the delayed transfers of care are in the mental health field. There is a whole range of actions to be taken before pooled budgeting, but it is an early priority for the local service boards, and pooled budgets would need to be given early consideration and a high priority.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yn amlwg, byddai cyllidebau cyfun yn fater i’r bwrdd iechyd lleol fel y corff comisiynu, ac i adran gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yr awdurdod lleol. Byddai angen iddynt gytuno i gyfuno’r gyllideb, rhywbeth y byddem yn ei gymell yn gryf. Ar y cychwyn, mae’n debyg bod y trefniadau gweithio ar y cyd ar gyfer cyd-gomisiynu yn fwy perthnasol er mwyn sicrhau gwasanaeth di-dor yn y maes hwn. Rhaid inni ystyried yr hyn sydd yn iawn ar gyfer y claf o ran, er enghraifft, asesu’n gynnar, rhyddhau’n gynnar, cyflymder wrth ddarparu addasiadau yn y cartref megis gosod lifft grisiau, a sicrhau bod cymorth nyrsio seiciatryddol cymunedol ar gael os yw’r oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal yn gysylltiedig ag iechyd meddwl yn hytrach nag iechyd corfforol. Ym maes iechyd meddwl y mae bron hanner yr achosion o oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal. Mae llu o gamau i’w cymryd cyn cyfuno cyllidebau, ond mae’n flaenoriaeth gynnar i’r byrddau gwasanaethau lleol, a byddai angen rhoi ystyriaeth gynnar a blaenoriaeth uchel i gyllidebau cyfun.

Lesley Griffiths: In January this year, the Government published 'Making the Connections’, which sets out a vision for how local service boards could work across Wales. Indeed, one such board is being piloted in Wrexham. Do you think that through such innovative local working arrangements such as a local health, social care and wellbeing partnership to oversee arrangements for both admission and discharge, working under the auspices of a local service board, the issue of delayed transfers of care could not only be addressed, but become something of the past?

Lesley Griffiths: Yn Ionawr eleni, cyhoeddodd y Llywodraeth 'Creu’r Cysylltiadau’, sy’n amlinellu gweledigaeth ar gyfer sut y gallai byrddau gwasanaethau lleol weithio ledled Cymru. Yn wir, mae un bwrdd o’r fath yn cael ei dreialu yn Wrecsam. A ydych yn meddwl, drwy drefniadau gweithio lleol arloesol megis partneriaeth leol iechyd, gofal cymdeithasol a lles i oruchwylio trefniadau ar gyfer derbyn a rhyddhau, yn gweithio dan oruchwyliaeth bwrdd gwasanaethau lleol, y gellid nid yn unig roi sylw i fater oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal, ond sicrhau ei fod yn rhywbeth a fydd yn perthyn i’r gorffennol?

The First Minister: You were with me and the MP, Ian Lucas, when we saw the example of excellent practice in Wrexham, which is one of the best and most efficient areas in Wales in terms of having a low number of delayed transfers of care. It has good working arrangements with three or four of the local hospitals as well as with social services. Your point about local service boards is absolutely right. I have said it before and I will say it again: if you ask me why a local service board is a good and necessary idea, I would always respond by referring to delayed transfers of care. The transfer problem may be partially solved in Wrexham, but you can always do better. However, in the rest of Wales, it is the way forward as regards trying to solve the problem of stubbornness and resistance to reducing the number of delayed transfers of care.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr oeddech gyda mi a’r AS, Ian Lucas, pan welsom yr enghraifft o arferion rhagorol yn Wrecsam, sydd yn un o’r ardaloedd gorau a mwyaf effeithiol yng Nghymru o ran bod yno nifer isel o achosion o oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal. Mae yno drefniadau gweithio da gyda thri neu bedwar o’r ysbytai lleol yn ogystal â chyda’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Mae eich pwynt am fyrddau gwasanaethau lleol yn hollol gywir. Yr wyf wedi ei ddweud o’r blaen ac fe’i dywedaf eto: os gofynnwch imi pam y mae bwrdd gwasanaethau lleol yn syniad da ac angenrheidiol, ymatebwn bob tro drwy gyfeirio at oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal. Efallai fod problem trosglwyddo wedi’i datrys yn rhannol yn Wrecsam, ond gallwch bob amser wneud yn well. Fodd bynnag, yng ngweddill Cymru, dyma’r ffordd ymlaen o ran ceisio datrys problem ystyfnigrwydd a gwrthwynebiad i leihau nifer yr achosion o oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal.

William Graham: You will know that part of the problem with delayed transfers of care is readmission. Will you reconsider the possibility of auditing homes that are adapted for disabled living and consider a further extension of telemedicine, which promotes independent living and, hopefully, reduces readmission?

William Graham: Byddwch yn ymwybodol mai aildderbyn i’r ysbyty yw rhan o’r broblem gydag oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal. A wnewch ailystyried y posibilrwydd o archwilio cartrefi sydd wedi’u haddasu ar gyfer pobl anabl ac ystyried ehangu telefeddygaeth ymhellach, sy’n hyrwyddo byw’n annibynnol a, gobeithio, yn lleihau achosion o aildderbyn i’r ysbyty?

The First Minister: Absolutely. Preventing avoidable hospital admissions is hugely important, because if you do not go in, you will not be delayed coming out. If you can live independently, supported by telemedicine, pull-cords, a warden system and sheltered housing that is suitable to your needs, you are far less likely to have to go into hospital. Sometimes, you will have surges in the number of cases—and I know this from the Cardiff area—of the frail and elderly, or the elderly and partially dependent people who live alone. They come into the accident-and-emergency department, but half of them should probably have been dealt with at the nursing or day-care home where they live, or by their GP. However, because it is out of hours, that may not be possible, and so a neighbour calls them an ambulance, and they are taken into the accident-and-emergency department, when they do not really need to be there. That may have been the only port of call on the day, but an independent assessment would probably find that it would have been better had a GP called around and made sure that they were dealt with at home.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yn hollol. Mae’n bwysig iawn peidio â derbyn pobl i’r ysbyty os gellir osgoi hynny, oherwydd os nad ewch i mewn, ni fydd oedi cyn ichi ddod allan. Os gallwch fyw’n annibynnol, gyda chymorth telefeddygaeth, cordiau tynnu, system wardeiniaid a thai gwarchod sy’n addas i’ch anghenion, yr ydych yn llawer llai tebygol o orfod mynd i mewn i’r ysbyty. Weithiau, ceir ymchwydd yn nifer yr achosion—ac yr wyf yn gwybod am hyn am ei fod wedi digwydd yn ardal Caerdydd—o bobl eiddil ac oedrannus, neu bobl oedrannus a rhannol ddibynnol sy’n byw ar eu pennau eu hun. Deuant i’r adran damweiniau ac achosion brys, ond mae’n debyg y dylid bod wedi delio â’u hanner yn y cartref nyrsio neu’r cartref gofal dydd lle y maent yn byw, neu dan law eu meddyg teulu. Fodd bynnag, gan ei bod y tu allan i’r oriau arferol, efallai na fydd hynny’n bosibl, ac felly mae cymydog yn galw am ambiwlans iddynt, ac eir â hwy i’r adran damweiniau ac achosion brys, heb fod angen iddynt fod yno mewn gwirionedd. Efallai mai’r fan honno oedd yr unig le a oedd ar gael y diwrnod hwnnw, ond mae’n debyg y byddai asesiad annibynnol yn canfod y buasai’n well petai meddyg teulu wedi galw heibio a sicrhau eu bod yn cael sylw gartref.

Bethan Jenkins: You previously mentioned the Wales Audit Office report concerning how we can create partnerships between councils, local health boards and trusts. Could I press you further on this to tell us how you see Welsh Assembly Government overseeing that structure? I know that we have had problems in the past with regard to overseeing new structures, but how can we create best practice in this situation?

Bethan Jenkins: Soniasoch o’r blaen am adroddiad Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru ynghylch sut y gallwn greu partneriaethau rhwng cynghorau, byrddau iechyd lleol ac ymddiriedolaethau. A allwn bwyso ymhellach arnoch ynghylch hyn i ddweud wrthym sut y rhagwelwch y bydd Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru’n goruchwylio’r strwythur hwnnw? Gwn ein bod wedi cael problemau yn y gorffennol o ran goruchwylio strwythurau newydd, ond sut y gallwn greu’r arferion gorau yn y sefyllfa hon?

The First Minister: The audit office report was pushing us in the direction in which we were already going. It may have wanted us to run at 25 mph, when we were already running at 22.5 mph. However, everyone is trying to go in the same direction on this. We would all commend ensuring that local service boards get active and get stuck into this as quickly as possible. We have a direct interest in this through the health board, but we do not micromanage the individual delivery of health services at a local level; that is left to the 22 local health boards. We have a huge interest in making sure that commissioning is effective, and that there is joint commissioning, as in this particular case, so that you do not get the nonsense of the health service continuing to provide a bed at £1,000 a week for a patient who should be in a nursing home at £500 a week. Because someone is not willing to pay the £500 a week, the patient stays in the hospital bed, costing £1,000 a week. That is wrong for the patient and is bad expenditure of public money. We all know that, but stopping it is the trick, and we have to do that sooner rather than later.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr oedd adroddiad y swyddfa archwilio’n ein gwthio i’r cyfeiriad yr oeddem yn mynd iddo eisoes. Efallai ei bod am inni fynd 25 mya, a ninnau eisoes yn mynd 22.5 mya. Fodd bynnag, mae pawb yn ceisio mynd i’r un cyfeiriad ynghylch hyn. Byddem oll o blaid sicrhau bod byrddau gwasanaethau lleol yn bwrw iddi ac yn mynd i’r afael â hyn cyn gynted ag y bo modd. Mae inni fuddiant uniongyrchol yn hyn drwy’r bwrdd iechyd, ond nid ydym yn microreoli sut y mae gwasanaethau iechyd yn cael eu darparu’n unigol ar lefel leol; gadewir hynny i’r 22 o fyrddau iechyd lleol. Mae inni fuddiant enfawr mewn sicrhau bod comisiynu’n effeithiol, a bod comisiynu ar y cyd, megis yn yr achos arbennig hwn, fel na cheir sefyllfa hurt lle y mae’r gwasanaeth iechyd yn dal i ddarparu gwely am £1,000 yr wythnos ar gyfer claf a ddylai fod mewn cartref nyrsio am £500 yr wythnos. Am nad yw rhywun yn barod i dalu’r £500 yr wythnos, mae’r claf yn aros yn y gwely mewn ysbyty, sy’n costio £1,000 yr wythnos. Nid yw hynny’n iawn i’r claf ac mae’n ddull gwael o wario arian cyhoeddus. Yr ydym oll yn gwybod hynny, ond ei atal yw’r gamp, a rhaid inni wneud hynny cyn gynted ag y gellir.

Transport Links

Cysylltiadau Trafnidiaeth

Q8 Darren Millar: Will the First Minister make a statement on transport links in Wales? OAQ(3)0454(FM)

C8 Darren Millar: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am gysylltiadau trafnidiaeth yng Nghymru? OAQ(3)0454(FM)

The First Minister: We are keen to develop networks in a way that strikes the right balance between our economic, social and environmental objectives, by investing in a sustainable way in public and private transport.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydym yn awyddus i ddatblygu rhwydweithiau mewn modd sy’n dal y ddysgl yn wastad rhwng ein hamcanion economaidd, cymdeithasol ac amgylcheddol, drwy fuddsoddi mewn modd cynaliadwy mewn trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus a phreifat.

Darren Millar: Thank you for that answer, First Minister. The air link between Anglesey and Cardiff has now been operating for more than six months. Anecdotal evidence suggests that some of the main users of the service are public sector employees, wealthy businessmen, and Plaid Cymru politicians and their staff. Do you agree that there is an urgent need to assess the effectiveness of this link, particularly for the people of north-east Wales, who would be better served by a service from Hawarden or Liverpool than one in RAF Valley?

Darren Millar: Diolch ichi am yr ateb hwnnw, Brif Weinidog. Mae’r cyswllt awyr rhwng Ynys Môn a Chaerdydd yn gweithredu bellach ers mwy na chwe mis. Mae tystiolaeth anecdotaidd yn awgrymu mai rhai o brif ddefnyddwyr y gwasanaeth yw gweithwyr y sector cyhoeddus, dynion busnes cefnog, a gwleidyddion Plaid Cymru a’u staff. A ydych yn derbyn bod taer angen asesu effeithiolrwydd y cyswllt hwn, yn enwedig er mwyn pobl y gogledd-ddwyrain, y byddai’n well iddynt gael gwasanaeth o Benarlâg neu Lerpwl nag un yn RAF y Fali?

The First Minister: Anecdotal evidence is not actual evidence, is it? That is the approach of a reader of The Sun to the preparation of questions for the First Minister on a Tuesday.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid tystiolaeth wirioneddol yw tystiolaeth anecdotaidd, nage? Dyna ddull un o ddarllenwyr The Sun o baratoi cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog ar ddydd Mawrth.

We are pleased that passenger use of the north to south Wales air service is in excess of expectation. It is averaging an 80 per cent load factor, which is pretty impressive for the first six months of a service, given that it normally takes quite a while for a service to establish itself in people’s minds. I never thought that anyone from north-east Wales would use it, as it is too far to go to RAF Valley and is probably far easier to catch a train or drive. It would have been easier to go to Liverpool if there was an air service there, as there was at one time, some 18 months ago. Hawarden was an option, but Airbus makes such full use of that airfield to carry its wing parts to Toulouse for final assembly that it has never been interested in leasing it for commercial use.

Yr ydym yn falch bod mwy o ddefnydd na’r disgwyl gan deithwyr ar y gwasanaeth awyr rhwng y de a’r gogledd. Mae ganddo ffactor llwyth o 80 y cant ar gyfartaledd, ac mae hynny’n bur foddahol ar gyfer gwasanaeth sydd yn ei chwe mis cyntaf, o gofio ei bod yn cymryd cryn amser fel arfer i bobl ddod yn ymwybodol o wasanaeth. Ni thybiais erioed y byddai neb o’r gogledd-ddwyrain yn ei ddefnyddio, gan fod RAF y Fali’n rhy bell ac mae’n debyg ei bod yn haws o lawer dal trên neu yrru. Buasai’n haws mynd i Lerpwl petai gwasanaeth awyr yno, fel y bu ar un adeg, tua 18 mis yn ôl. Yr oedd Penarlâg yn ddewis posibl, ond mae Airbus yn defnyddio cymaint ar y maes awyr hwnnw i gludo ei rannau o adenydd i Toulouse i’w cydosod yn derfynol fel na fu diddordeb ganddo erioed yn ei brydlesu ar gyfer defnydd masnachol.

Kirsty Williams: Given your comments on private transport, are you aware that, from next year, there will be a new motor cycle test and that the Driving Standards Agency is proposing to cut the number of motor cycle test centres in Wales from the current seven to four: Neath, Bangor, Newport and Haverfordwest? That will leave great swathes of the country far away from places where motor cycle tests can be taken. Given the problem that we have with high levels of motor cycle deaths on our roads in Wales, do you think it appropriate for the Driving Standards Agency to make these cuts? What representations have you made to ensure that there are more places in Wales where people can take their motor cycle tests?

Kirsty Williams: O gofio’ch sylwadau am drafnidiaeth breifat, a ydych yn ymwybodol y bydd prawf beic modur newydd, o’r flwyddyn nesaf, a bod yr Asiantaeth Safonau Gyrru yn cynnig torri nifer y canolfannau profion beic modur yng Nghymru o saith, fel sydd ar hyn o bryd, i bedair: Castell-nedd, Bangor, Casnewydd a Hwlffordd? Bydd hynny’n gadael rhannau helaeth o’r wlad yn bell o fannau lle y gellir cael profion beic modur. O gofio’r broblem sydd gennym o ran niferoedd uchel y marwolaethau sy’n gysylltiedig â beiciau modur ar ein ffyrdd yng Nghymru, a ydych yn credu ei bod yn briodol i’r Asiantaeth Safonau Gyrru wneud y toriadau hyn? Pa sylwadau yr ydych wedi’u cyflwyno i sicrhau bod mwy o leoedd yng Nghymru lle y gall pobl gael profion beic modur?

2.50 p.m.

The First Minister: I am not aware of our having been officially informed of this proposed change by the DSA or by the Department for Transport. Will you provide me with the details, or I will see whether I can get the details via the Driving Standards Agency, which we have no direct involvement with? Your points about road safety and motor cycle use were well made. It is important that people are not in any way discouraged from taking motor cycle tests because of the distance to the nearest test station.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid wyf yn ymwybodol ein bod wedi’n hysbysu’n swyddogol am y newid arfaethedig hwn gan yr Asiantaeth Safonau Gyrru neu gan yr Adran Drafnidiaeth. A wnewch roi’r manylion imi, neu gwelaf a allaf gael y manylion drwy’r Asiantaeth Safonau Gyrru, nad ydym yn ymwneud yn uniongyrchol â hi? Gwnaethoch bwyntiau da am ddiogelwch ar y ffyrdd a defnyddio beiciau modur. Mae’n bwysig na fydd pobl yn cael eu cymell sut yn y byd i beidio â chael profion beic modur am fod yr orsaf brofi agosaf yn bell.

The Development of Rugby

Datblygu Rygbi

Q9 Joyce Watson: Will the First Minister make a statement on what the Welsh Assembly Government is doing to help the development of rugby in Wales? OAQ(3)0438(FM)

C9 Joyce Watson: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am yr hyn y mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru’n ei wneud i gynorthwyo i ddatblygu rygbi yng Nghymru? OAQ(3)0438(FM)

The First Minister: You will be aware, Joyce, that there was an Objective 1 programme to assist in the training of young professional rugby players; I believe that that is still going. The current major proposed development involving our funds—although it may be lottery funding—is that the Sports Council for Wales is awarding a grant in principle of £1.8 million to establish a centre of excellence for the Welsh Rugby Union at the Hensol complex of the Vale hotel owned by Leekes.

Y Prif Weinidog: Byddwch yn ymwybodol, Joyce, fod rhaglen Amcan 1 wedi bod ar waith i roi cymorth i hyfforddi chwaraewyr rygbi proffesiynol ifanc; yr wyf yn credu bod honno’n dal i fynd. Y datblygiad arfaethedig mawr presennol sy’n cynnwys ein cyllid ni—er mai arian y loteri ydyw efallai—yw bod Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru yn rhoi grant mewn egwyddor o £1.8 miliwn i sefydlu canolfan ragoriaeth ar gyfer Undeb Rygbi Cymru yng nghanolfan Hensol yng ngwesty’r Vale sy’n eiddo i Leekes.

Joyce Watson: Thank you for that answer, First Minister. Do you agree that local teams, such as the Pen-y-groes under 16s in Carmarthenshire, provide excellent services to youngsters, and those opportunities give young people something to do, encouraging them to become fitter and healthier, teaching them to work as a team towards a common goal while also providing structure and discipline? The experiences that they receive by taking part in team sports will help them later in life. Will you have discussions with the Minister for Heritage and the Minister for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills to ensure that maximum benefit is gained to promote grass-roots development for young people to take up sport in their local community, which leads, in some cases, to national involvement later?

Joyce Watson: Diolch ichi am yr ateb hwnnw, Brif Weinidog. A ydych yn cytuno bod timau lleol, fel tîm dan 16 oed Pen-y-groes yn sir Gaerfyrddin, yn darparu gwasanaethau rhagorol i bobl ifanc, a bod y cyfleoedd hynny’n rhoi rhywbeth i’w wneud i bobl ifanc, gan eu cymell i ddod yn iachach ac yn fwy ffit a’u haddysgu i weithio fel tîm i gyrraedd nod cyffredin, gan gynnig trefn a disgyblaeth hefyd? Bydd y profiadau a gânt drwy gymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon tîm yn eu helpu pan fyddant yn hŷn. A wnewch gynnal trafodaethau gyda’r Gweinidog dros Dreftadaeth a’r Gweinidog dros Blant, Addysg, Dysgu Gydol Oes a Sgiliau i sicrhau’r budd mwyaf er mwyn hybu datblygiadau ar lawr gwlad fel y gall pobl ifanc ymgymryd â chwaraeon yn eu cymuned leol, a fydd yn arwain, mewn rhai achosion, at gymryd rhan ar lefel genedlaethol yn ddiweddarach?

The First Minister: It is always difficult to get the exact balance right between having a centre of excellence at the Vale, which I hope will be an outstanding facility, and the spreading of grass-roots sport in schools and local clubs, which has always been the lifeblood of rugby. The mini rugby explosion of some 30 years ago continues today, as well as youth rugby and rugby among other age groups. When I last met Roger Lewis, the chief executive of the WRU, we agreed in principle that we need a joint strategy to use rugby to promote sport and physical fitness. We also need to make sure that girls are given full encouragement to participate at all the appropriate age groups, and ensure that everyone benefits from participating in either rugby or another cardiovascular sport that expands the heart and lungs and stops the childhood obesity epidemic that will face us if we do nothing about it.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae bob amser yn anodd dal y ddysgl yn wastad rhwng cael canolfan ragoriaeth yng ngwesty’r Vale, a fydd yn gyfleuster ardderchog yr wyf yn gobeithio, a lledaenu chwaraeon ar lawr gwlad mewn ysgolion a chlybiau lleol, rhywbeth sydd wedi bod yn hanfodol i rygbi erioed. Mae’r cynnydd mawr a fu mewn rygbi mini tua 30 mlynedd yn ôl yn parhau heddiw, yn ogystal â rygbi ieuenctid a rygbi ymysg grwpiau oedran eraill. Pan gyfarfûm ddiwethaf â Roger Lewis, prif weithredwr Undeb Rygbi Cymru, cytunasom mewn egwyddor fod arnom angen strategaeth ar y cyd i ddefnyddio rygbi i hybu chwaraeon a ffitrwydd. Mae angen inni sicrhau hefyd fod merched yn yr holl grwpiau oedran priodol yn cael pob anogaeth i gymryd rhan, a bod pawb yn cael budd o gymryd rhan un ai mewn rygbi neu mewn math arall o chwaraeon cardiofasgwlaidd sy’n ymestyn y galon a’r ysgyfaint ac yn atal yr epidemig gordewdra ymysg plant a fydd yn ein hwynebu os na wnawn ddim yn ei gylch.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Thank you for the answer to the last question. I agree with you, and I have two young sons who play rugby regularly at their local club in Cowbridge. Unfortunately, that is about the only chance they get. Opportunities for school rugby are now greatly diminished, both in secondary and primary schools. How will the Government act on this, given the 'One Wales’ commitment to encourage more physical education in schools, and how will you resource that? Every time I talk to teachers—and I am a governor of our local school—I am told that time constraints are the critical barrier to getting more team and contact sports played. If the national teams do not get the raw recruits coming through, and get them young, how will we ever be successful on the rugby field?

Andrew R.T. Davies: Diolch am yr ateb i’r cwestiwn diwethaf. Yr wyf yn cytuno â chi, ac mae gennyf ddau fab ifanc sy’n chwarae rygbi’n rheolaidd yn eu clwb lleol yn y Bont-faen. Yn anffodus, dyna’r unig gyfle a gânt, bron iawn. Mae llai o lawer o gyfle i chwarae rygbi yn yr ysgol erbyn hyn, mewn ysgolion uwchradd ac mewn ysgolion cynradd. Sut y bydd y Llywodraeth yn gweithredu ynghylch hyn, o ystyried yr ymrwymiad yn 'Cymru’n Un’ i hybu addysg gorfforol mewn ysgolion, a sut y byddwch yn darparu adnoddau ar gyfer hynny? Bob tro y byddaf yn siarad ag athrawon—ac yr wyf yn llywodraethwr yn ein hysgol leol—dywedir wrthyf mai cyfyngiadau ar amser yw’r rhwystr allweddol rhag chwarae mwy o chwaraeon tîm a chwaraeon cyswllt. Os na fydd y timau cenedlaethol yn cael chwaraewyr newydd, a’r rheini’n ifanc, sut y gwnawn lwyddo byth ar y cae rygbi?

The First Minister: Again, the balance between schools and the junior and mini sections of rugby clubs is a difficult one. The French have managed for donkey’s years almost purely on the club side, without having a big school troop. However, part of the Welsh tradition is to get good players coming through almost ready-made from school rugby teams at 17 or 18 years old. However, that has been under pressure since teachers started to get a bit cheesed off with the idea of undertaking a lot of additional duties for no extra money, back in the days when Kenneth Baker was the Secretary of State for education some 20 years ago. It has never quite got back to the same level as it was before the dispute in 1988.

Y Prif Weinidog: Unwaith eto, mae’n anodd dal y ddysgl yn wastad rhwng ysgolion ac adrannau iau ac adrannau rygbi mini’r clybiau rygbi. Mae’r Ffrancwyr wedi gallu gwneud ers hydoedd ar ochr y clybiau’n unig bron, heb gael carfan fawr mewn ysgolion. Fodd bynnag, un agwedd ar y traddodiad yng Nghymru yw bod chwaraewyr da’n dod drwodd a hwythau bron yn barod o dimau rygbi ysgol yn 17 neu’n 18 mlwydd oed. Fodd bynnag, mae hynny dan bwysau ers i athrawon ddechrau blino ar y syniad o ymgymryd â llawer o ddyletswyddau ychwanegol heb gael arian ychwanegol, yr adeg yr oedd Kenneth Baker yn Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Addysg tuag 20 mlynedd yn ôl. Nid yw byth wedi codi’n ôl i’r un lefel yn union ag yr oedd cyn yr anghydfod yn 1988.

It is important that school sports such as rugby be rejuvenated, including team sports and other forms of sport, because teenagers today cannot be dragooned in quite the same way as their predecessors were, who may have wanted to play football but were told, 'This is a rugby school, so you are not playing football’. People would have accepted that in the 1950s and 1960s, but they will not accept that now, when there is a greater element of choice, because society has changed in that direction, and schools, to some extent, have to go with the flow.

Mae’n bwysig i chwaraeon ysgol fel rygbi gael eu hadfywio, gan gynnwys chwaraeon timau a mathau eraill o chwaraeon, gan na ellir gorfodi rhai yn eu harddegau heddiw fel y gwneid yn achos eu rhagflaenwyr, a oedd efallai’n dymuno chwarae pêl-droed ond y dywedid wrthynt, 'Ysgol rygbi yw hon, felly ni chewch chwarae pêl-droed’. Byddai pobl wedi derbyn hynny yn yr 1950au a’r 1960au, ond ni wnânt dderbyn hynny’n awr, gan fod mwy o ddewis ar gael, am fod cymdeithas wedi newid i’r cyfeiriad hwnnw, ac mae ysgolion yn gorfod mynd i ganlyn hynny i ryw raddau.

Energy Efficiency

Defnyddio Ynni’n Effeithlon

Q10 Janet Ryder: Will the First Minister make a statement on the advice and support available to encourage rural consumers to become more energy efficient? OAQ(3)0443(FM)

C10 Janet Ryder: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am y cyngor a’r cymorth sydd ar gael i annog defnyddwyr gwledig i ddefnyddio ynni’n fwy effeithlon? OAQ(3)0443(FM)

The First Minister: The Assembly Government has awarded funding to the Energy Saving Trust to establish a sustainable energy network, offering advice to households, communities and microbusinesses across Wales to make more sustainable choices in their energy use. You will be aware that more than 75,000 homes have now received support under our home energy efficiency scheme.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi rhoi arian i’r Ymddiriedolaeth Arbed Ynni i sefydlu rhwydwaith ynni cynaliadwy. Pwrpas y rhwydwaith fydd cynnig cyngor i gartrefi, cymunedau a microfusnesau ledled Cymru i wneud dewisiadau mwy cynaliadwy o ran defnyddio ynni. Byddwch yn gwybod bod dros 75,000 o gartrefi yng Nghymru wedi cael cymorth erbyn hyn o dan ein cynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref.

Janet Ryder: I am sure that you aware that many homes do not have a choice; their only choice is liquid gas, which they have to buy in bulk and is extremely expensive to use for heating. Will you commit your Government to look at the scheme again to see how it can be adapted to enable households to use alternative methods of heating, such as solar power and coiled-earth cords? They could then enter the scheme and benefit from it, heating their homes cost-effectively rather than in a way that costs the earth?

Janet Ryder: Yr wyf yn sicr eich bod yn ymwybodol nad oes dewis gan lawer o gartrefi; eu hunig ddewis yw nwy hylif, y mae’n rhaid iddynt ei swmp-brynu, a hwnnw’n ddrud iawn i’w ddefnyddio ar gyfer gwresogi. A wnewch ymrwymo y bydd eich Llywodraeth yn ailedrych ar y cynllun i weld sut y gellir ei addasu i alluogi aelwydydd i ddefnyddio dulliau gwresogi eraill, fel ynni’r haul a chordiau daearu torchog? Wedyn gallent ddod yn rhan o’r cynllun ac elwa ohono, gan wresogi eu cartrefi’n gost-effeithiol yn hytrach nag am grocbris?

The First Minister: Insulation applies just as much to rural areas, which only have the choice of solid fuel, LPG or oil delivered, as it does to urban areas that are on the gas mains. The boiler that one should use, however, is determined by the kind of fuel you have access to. When you are off the mains network, that choice is more restricted, and that is one reason why we are trying to encourage everybody in our consumer marketing campaign, running under the banner 'Save Your 20%’, by raising awareness of climate change in general and by seeing what you can do in your household.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae insiwleiddio yr un mor berthnasol i ardaloedd gwledig, nad oes ganddynt ddewis heblaw tanwydd solet, nwy petrolewm hylifedig neu olew a ddanfonir, ag y mae i ardaloedd trefol sy’n cael nwy o’r prif gyflenwad. Fodd bynnag, pennir y bwyler y dylai rhywun ei ddefnyddio yn ôl y math o danwydd sydd ar gael ichi. Os nad ydych ar rwydwaith y prif gyflenwad, mae’r dewis hwnnw’n fwy cyfyngedig, a dyna un o’r rhesymau pam yr ydym yn ceisio annog pawb yn ein hymgyrch farchnata ymysg defnyddwyr, o dan y pennawd 'Arbedwch Eich 20%’, drwy hybu ymwybyddiaeth o newid yn yr hinsawdd yn gyffredinol a thrwy weld beth y gallwch ei wneud ar eich aelwyd.

With regard to new technologies such as solar power for heating water, or photovoltaic solar power for generating electricity, there is a modest grant scheme, but it tends to get booked out within 24 hours of opening every year. This is a Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform scheme, as the successor to the Department of Trade and Industry. It tends to open it, and then, very quickly, it is shut because of the amount of demand.

Gyda golwg ar dechnolegau newydd fel ynni’r haul i dwymo dŵr, neu ynni haul ffotofoltäig i gynhyrchu trydan, mae cynllun grant bach, ond fel arfer bydd wedi’i ddefnyddio i gyd o fewn 24 awr ar ôl dechrau bob blwyddyn. Un o gynlluniau’r Adran Busnes, Menter a Diwygio Rheoleiddio yw hwn, olynydd i’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant. Mae’n tueddu i’w agor, ac yna ei gau, yn gyflym iawn, oherwydd maint y galw.

Brynle Williams: One of the most important ways in which consumers can reduce their energy use and their carbon footprint, as we have heard, is to buy locally produced food. First Minister, at this time when the market for Welsh livestock is in a state of collapse because of the outbreak of foot and mouth disease, do you not agree that it is an outrage that a major supermarket such as Somerfield is actively promoting foreign meat to rural consumers? What confidence can you have that the £1 million set aside for marketing red meat, funded from cuts in the Welsh agriculture budget, will actually deliver results for farmers rather than being swallowed up by the retailers who have no genuine interest in or commitment to Welsh producers?

Brynle Williams: Un o’r dulliau pwysicaf y gall cwsmeriaid ddefnyddio llai o ynni a lleihau eu hôl-troed carbon, fel y clywsom, yw prynu bwyd sy’n cael ei gynhyrchu’n lleol. Brif Weinidog, gan fod dirywiad enbyd yn y farchnad ar gyfer da byw o Gymru ar hyn o bryd oherwydd yr achosion o glwy’r traed a’r genau, onid ydych yn cytuno ei bod yn warthus bod uwchfarchnad fawr fel Somerfield yn annog cwsmeriaid mewn ardaloedd gwledig i brynu cig o wledydd tramor? Pa mor sicr y gallwch fod y bydd yr £1 filiwn a neilltuwyd i farchnata cig coch, sy’n cael ei ariannu drwy doriadau yng nghyllideb amaethyddiaeth Cymru, yn sicrhau canlyniadau i ffermwyr yn hytrach na chael ei lyncu gan y manwerthwyr sydd heb wir ddiddordeb yng nghynhyrchwyr Cymru nac ymrwymiad iddynt?

The First Minister: I will have to double check with Elin Jones whether Somerfield was one of the supermarkets that told us that it would have nothing to do with the £1 million promotional scheme or whether it was one of those that said that it would. To be honest, I do not know, but I will write to you on that. It is in this season that you would expect minimal sales of New Zealand lamb and maximum sales of excellent, succulent Welsh lamb. I cannot think of any reason why anybody would want to import the frozen or chilled variety from halfway around the world at this time of year.

Y Prif Weinidog: Bydd yn rhaid imi ailwirio gydag Elin Jones i weld a oedd Somerfield yn un o’r uwchfarchnadoedd a ddywedodd wrthym na fynnai ymwneud o gwbl â’r cynllun hybu gwerth £1 filiwn neu a oedd yn un o’r rhai a ddywedodd y byddent yn cymryd rhan. A dweud y gwir, nid wyf yn gwybod, ond ysgrifennaf atoch ynghylch hynny. Yn y tymor hwn y disgwyliech y gwerthiant lleiaf ar gig oen o Seland Newydd a’r gwerthiant mwyaf ar gig oen rhagorol a blasus o Gymru. Ni allaf feddwl am reswm a fyddai gan neb i ddymuno mewnforio’r math o gig sydd wedi’i oeri neu’i rewi hanner ffordd o gwmpas y byd yr adeg hon o’r flwyddyn.

Sandy Mewies: First Minister, you were extremely interested to hear about the two projects in my Delyn constituency in which borehole heating had been introduced by Flintshire County Council. I am sure that you will find it equally interesting to learn of another scheme that Flintshire has in mind, namely a housing improvement programme that will also fit solar panels to houses to help with heating and with tackling climate change, reducing our carbon footprint. Would you join me in congratulating Flintshire County Council on the innovative work that it is doing in this way, which I think could be spread across Wales as good practice?

Sandy Mewies: Brif Weinidog, yr oedd gennych ddiddordeb mawr mewn clywed am y ddau brosiect yn fy etholaeth, sef Delyn, lle y cyflwynwyd gwresogi drwy dwll turio gan Gyngor Sir y Fflint. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddwch yn ei chael yr un mor ddiddorol cael gwybod am gynllun arall sydd gan Gyngor Sir y Fflint mewn golwg, sef cynllun gwella tai a fydd hefyd yn gosod paneli solar ar dai i helpu i’w gwresogi ac i fynd i’r afael â’r newid yn yr hinsawdd, gan leihau ein hôl-troed carbon. A fyddech yn ymuno â mi i longyfarch Cyngor Sir y Fflint am y gwaith arloesol hwn y mae’n ei wneud, y gellid mae’n debyg ei ymestyn i bob cwr o Gymru fel arfer da?

3.00 p.m.

Y Prif Weinidog: Gwnaf, wrth gwrs, oherwydd, fel y dywedais yn gynharach, rhaid i rai technolegau fynd drwy gyfnod o fod yn ddiwydiannau sy’n cael eu gwarchod: maent yn gostus, mae popeth yn cael ei wneud â llaw, maent yn ymddangos fel petaent yn costio ffortiwn, ac mae arnoch angen ychydig o gymhorthdal gan drethdalwyr i’w poblogeiddio. Yna mae’r diwydiannau’n cyrraedd y cam masgynhyrchu, mae costau uned yn gostwng, ac mae’r diwydiant yn gallu sefyll ar ei draed ei hun. Ar hyn o bryd, mae pob technoleg solar ffotofoltäig yn y categori hwnnw ei fod yn ddiwydiant sy’n cael ei warchod, ac o ganlyniad rhaid i’r mentro a’r arloesi ddod o du’r sector cyhoeddus. Yr wyf yn cymeradwyo’r hyn y mae sir y Fflint wedi’i wneud drwy roi cynnig ar systemau codi gwres drwy dwll turio a thechnoleg ffotofoltäig.

The Counsel General and Leader of the House (Carwyn Jones): The only change to report to this week’s planned Government business is that the motion to approve the Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) Regulations 2007 has been postponed until 27 November. Business for the next three weeks is as set out in the draft business statement and announcement, which can be found among the agenda papers that are available to Members electronically.

Y Cwnsler Cyffredinol ac Arweinydd y Tŷ (Carwyn Jones): Yr unig newid y mae angen adrodd amdano ym musnes arfaethedig y Llywodraeth yr wythnos hon yw bod y cynnig i gymeradwyo The Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) Regulations 2007 wedi’i ohirio tan 27 Tachwedd. Mae’r busnes ar gyfer y tair wythnos nesaf fel y mae wedi’i nodi yn y datganiad a chyhoeddiad busnes drafft, y gellir ei weld ymhlith papurau’r agenda sydd ar gael i’r Aelodau’n electronig.

William Graham: Looking at the three-week programme, particularly for non-Government business, although the opposition is grateful for the amount of time made available, we wonder whether there are any plans to bring forward any other items for debate during those afternoons.

Carwyn Jones: As far as non-Government business is concerned, of course, that is ultimately a matter for the Business Committee. I can confirm, however, that the Business Committee has not been approached for a Plenary slot for committee business. We are now 18 weeks into this Assembly year, and there is the opportunity for committees to put a report before Plenary, and I encourage them to do so.

Michael German: Given the difficulties that there have been with the timetable for scrutiny of Ministers in respect of the Assembly budget, could you tell us whether you have had discussions with committee Chairs to ensure that the budget is looked at, both in specific portfolios and more generally, so that we can be absolutely certain that there is transparency in this National Assembly, and that proper scrutiny can take place?

Arweinydd Grŵp Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru (Michael German): O ystyried yr anawsterau a gafwyd gyda’r amserlen ar gyfer craffu ar Weinidogion ynglŷn â chyllideb y Cynulliad, a allech ddweud wrthym a ydych wedi cynnal trafodaethau gyda Chadeiryddion pwyllgorau er mwyn sicrhau bod y gyllideb yn cael ei hystyried, mewn portffolios penodol ac yn fwy cyffredinol, fel y gallwn fod yn hollol siŵr bod tryloywder yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol hwn, a’n bod yn gallu craffu’n briodol?

Carwyn Jones: Ultimately, that is a matter for committee Chairs, in the correspondence that they send to the appropriate Ministers. I understand that efforts are being made to try to ensure that as many Ministers as possible—if not all Ministers—can attend committees, and I would refer you to the possibilities that Standing Order No. 14.3, I believe, may give us.

Carwyn Jones: Mewn gwirionedd, mater i Gadeiryddion pwyllgorau yw hynny, yn yr ohebiaeth a anfonir ganddynt at y Gweinidogion priodol. Deallaf fod ymdrechion yn cael eu gwneud i geisio sicrhau bod cynifer o’r Gweinidogion ag sy’n bosibl—os nad pob un—yn gallu mynychu pwyllgorau, a byddwn yn eich cyfeirio at y posibiliadau y gall Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 14.3, fe gredaf, eu cynnig inni.

Leanne Wood: I would be grateful if you would consider finding time for a debate about school uniforms and the wearing of religious attire in school. I am sure that you will be aware of the case of Sarika Watkins-Singh, a 14-year-old pupil at Aberdare Girls’ School, who has been excluded from school again today for refusing to take off her kara, which is the Sikh bangle. Sarika is the only Sikh pupil at the school, and she was taught in isolation for nine weeks because of her decision to wear the kara. The school has been asked for a copy of its race equality scheme and code of conduct, and both requests have been refused. I have asked for the reasons for the decision, and all I was told was that Sarika has been disciplined because she failed to abide by the decision of the school governing body. I have been in regular contact with the family, and I know that this has caused huge distress to them.

Leanne Wood: Byddwn yn ddiolchgar petaech yn ystyried neilltuo amser ar gyfer dadl ynglŷn â gwisg ysgol a gwisgo gwisgoedd crefyddol mewn ysgolion. Mae’n siŵr eich bod yn ymwybodol o achos Sarika Watkins-Singh, disgybl 14 oed yn Ysgol y Merched, Aberdâr, sydd wedi cael ei gwahardd o’r ysgol heddiw eto am wrthod diosg ei kara, sef breichled y Siciaid. Sarika yw’r unig ddisgybl Sicaidd yn yr ysgol, a chafodd ei haddysgu ar ei phen ei hun am naw wythnos oherwydd ei phenderfyniad i wisgo’r kara. Gofynnwyd i’r ysgol am gopi o’i chynllun cydraddoldeb hiliol a’i chod ymddygiad, a gwrthodwyd y ddau gais. Yr wyf wedi gofyn pam mae’r penderfyniad wedi’i wneud, a’r cyfan a ddywedwyd wrthyf oedd bod Sarika wedi cael ei disgyblu gan nad yw wedi cydymffurfio â phenderfyniad corff llywodraethu’r ysgol. Yr wyf wedi bod mewn cysylltiad rheolaidd â’r teulu, a gwn fod hyn wedi peri llawer o ofid iddynt.

Whatever people’s views of this case, I am sure that you will agree that it raises important issues that need to be debated here in the Assembly. A consultation on Welsh guidance on school uniforms was launched by the Welsh Assembly Government in December 2003, but we have yet to see the final guidance. I am sure that all Members will agree that four years is a long time for a consultation, and this case shows that schools need this guidance as a matter of urgency. If we could have a debate on this issue as a matter of urgency, I would be grateful.

Beth bynnag yw barn pobl am yr achos hwn, yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunwch ei fod yn codi materion pwysig y mae angen eu trafod yma yn y Cynulliad. Lansiwyd ymgynghoriad ar ganllawiau Cymru ynghylch gwisg ysgol gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn Rhagfyr 2003, ond nid ydym byth wedi gweld y canllawiau terfynol. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd pob Aelod yn cytuno bod pedair blynedd yn amser hir iawn i ymgynghoriad, ac mae’r achos hwn yn dangos bod ar ysgolion angen y canllawiau hyn fel mater o frys. Pe gallem gael dadl ar y pwnc hwn fel mater o frys, byddwn yn ddiolchgar.

Carwyn Jones: I am, of course, aware of the issue that you raise, and it is a difficult issue. There are sensitivities involved, and it is possible to observe this from both sides, but, inevitably, where it is a matter of religious significance for somebody to wear a particular item of clothing or jewellery, then that presents the governing body with a challenge. It would not be appropriate to debate this particular issue in the Assembly yet. The issue of school uniforms more generally is possibly a matter for debate in the future. The reason why I say that about this particular case is that there are avenues available to the young lady and her parents that they may wish to take, which may lead to a potential court action in the future. Therefore, now would not be the proper time for a debate on this issue, although I understand the feelings involved.

Nick Bourne: I endorse what Leanne Wood said. Across the board, in terms of religious representations, if it means changing the rules, I think that we should be looking at that.

Nick Bourne: Yr wyf yn ategu’r hyn a ddywedodd Leanne Wood. Yn gyffredinol, o ran symbolau crefyddol, os yw’n golygu newid y rheolau, credaf y dylem fod yn ystyried hynny.

I wanted to ask a question in relation to the scrutiny of the budget. The point has been made by the leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrat Group, but it is a point well made, that the nature of this year’s budget is different from that in previous years. We are not able to look at the budget and know what is in the particular spending lines, as has been made clear, not least by the Minister. Therefore, Ministers being unwilling or, perhaps, unable, to get to committee meetings before the budget is debated in Plenary represents a serious issue. I appreciate that committees can require a Minister’s attendance, although for it to go that far would say something about the Government that you are a part of, so I hope that it does not. Can you give an undertaking that you will at least speak to Ministers to ensure that they can get to committees to discuss their spending plans before the budget is debated in Plenary, otherwise we will suffer from not being able to scrutinise this budget effectively.

Yr oeddwn am ofyn cwestiwn ynglŷn â chraffu ar y gyllideb. Mae arweinydd Grŵp Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru wedi codi’r pwynt, ac mae’n bwynt da, fod y gyllideb eleni’n wahanol i’r cyllidebau yr ydym wedi’u cael yn y gorffennol. Nid ydym yn gallu edrych ar y gyllideb a gwybod beth sydd yn y llinellau gwariant penodol, fel y gwnaethpwyd yn glir, yn enwedig gan y Gweinidog. Felly, mae’r ffaith bod Gweinidogion yn amharod i fynychu cyfarfodydd pwyllgorau cyn i’r gyllideb gael ei thrafod yn y Cyfarfod Llawn, neu’n methu â gwneud hynny efallai, yn fater difrifol. Sylweddolaf y gall pwyllgorau ofyn i Weinidog fod yn bresennol, ond byddai cyrraedd y sefyllfa honno’n dweud rhywbeth am y Llywodraeth yr ydych yn rhan ohoni, felly gobeithiaf na fyddwn yn gweld y sefyllfa honno. A allwch addo y byddwch o leiaf yn siarad â’r Gweinidogion er mwyn sicrhau y gallant fynychu pwyllgorau i drafod eu cynlluniau gwariant cyn i’r gyllideb gael ei thrafod yn y Cyfarfod Llawn? Fel arall, byddwn yn dioddef gan ein bod yn methu â chraffu’n effeithiol ar y gyllideb hon.

Carwyn Jones: I am always grateful for the advice given to me by my colleague on my left—it is very useful advice. I understand that most issues have been resolved with regard to ministerial attendance at committees. There may be one outstanding issue with regard to one of my colleagues, but I understand that all other colleagues will be attending their committees. There is a wider issue here, of course, which is that, in the previous structure, we did not have a finance committee. It may be felt that it is the role of the Finance Committee to scrutinise the budget, in the same way as the Public Accounts Committee does in the House of Commons, where there is, I understand, an accepted convention that the committee looks at the figures, rather than individual committees elsewhere. I believe that the situation will be resolved in any event, and it certainly is not the case that there is a reluctance to attend committee on the part of any Minister; it has simply been the case that there have been difficulties fitting it in with diary commitments. However, there will need to be an understanding, as far as next year’s budget round is concerned, of what the role of the scrutiny committees is, in terms of scrutinising the budget, vis-à-vis the role that the Finance Committee has, which, of course, did not exist before May.

Carwyn Jones: Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar bob amser am y cyngor a roddir imi gan fy nghyd-Aelod ar y chwith imi—mae’n gyngor defnyddiol iawn. Deallaf fod y rhan fwyaf o’r problemau a oedd yn ymwneud â Gweinidogion yn mynychu pwyllgorau wedi cael eu datrys. Efallai fod un broblem o hyd gydag un o’m cyd-Aelodau, ond deallaf y bydd pob un o’m cyd-Aelodau eraill yn mynychu eu pwyllgorau. Mae problem ehangach yma, wrth gwrs, sef nad oedd gennym bwyllgor cyllid yn y strwythur blaenorol. Efallai fod rhai’n teimlo mai rôl y Pwyllgor Cyllid yw craffu ar y gyllideb, yn yr un modd ag y mae’r Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus yn gweithredu yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin, lle deallaf fod pawb yn derbyn mai’r pwyllgor sy’n edrych ar y ffigurau, yn hytrach na phwyllgorau unigol mewn mannau eraill. Credaf y bydd y sefyllfa’n cael ei datrys pa un bynnag, ac yn sicr nid oes dim un Gweinidog yn gyndyn o fynychu pwyllgor; ceisio trefnu amser ar gyfer hyn heb fynd ar draws ymrwymiadau eraill yn y dyddiaduron oedd y broblem. Fodd bynnag, bydd angen dealltwriaeth, cyn belled ag y mae cylch cyllideb y flwyddyn nesaf yn y cwestiwn, o beth yw rôl y pwyllgorau craffu, o safbwynt craffu ar y gyllideb, o’i chymharu â rôl y Pwyllgor Cyllid, nad oedd, wrth gwrs, yn bodoli cyn mis Mai.

Lynne Neagle: I would like to raise two matters. First, I would like to thank you for your support in putting pressure on Media Wales concerning the advertising of massage parlours linked to sex trafficking in Cardiff. Members will know that, thanks in no small measure to their support, a small but important victory has been scored in relation to these advertisements. I would like to thank the many Members of this Assembly who have supported me in this campaign. As you know, Minister, the South Wales Echo and the Western Mail have now withdrawn all advertisements of this kind, and I await a response from their owners, Trinity Mirror plc, regarding national policy. That is the next point, because the Western Mail and the South Wales Echo are just two newspapers, and Cardiff is just one city. We cannot, and should not, stop here. I therefore ask again that the Counsel General consider a debate on how the Assembly can best tackle sex trafficking in Wales. Let us use this one victory as a springboard to claim bigger victories in relation to this vile trade.

Lynne Neagle: Hoffwn godi dau fater. Yn gyntaf, hoffwn ddiolch ichi am eich cefnogaeth drwy roi pwysau ar Cyfryngau Cymru ynghylch hysbysebu parlyrau tylino sy’n gysylltiedig â masnachu pobl ar gyfer rhyw yng Nghaerdydd. Bydd yr Aelodau’n gwybod ein bod, diolch i’w cefnogaeth hwy yn rhannol, wedi cael buddugoliaeth fach ond bwysig gyda’r hysbysebion hyn. Hoffwn ddiolch i’r Aelodau niferus o’r Cynulliad hwn a’m cefnogodd yn yr ymgyrch hon. Fel y gwyddoch, Weinidog, mae’r South Wales Echo a’r Western Mail wedi tynnu pob hysbyseb o’r fath o’u papurau, ac yr wyf yn disgwyl ymateb gan eu perchnogion, Trinity Mirror ccc, ynglŷn â’r polisi cenedlaethol. Hynny yw’r pwynt nesaf, oherwydd dim ond dau bapur newydd yw’r Western Mail a’r South Wales Echo, a dim ond un ddinas yw Caerdydd. Ni allwn, ac ni ddylem, roi’r gorau i’r ymgyrch yn y fan hon. O ganlyniad, gofynnaf eto i’r Cwnsler Cyffredinol ystyried dadl ynglŷn â’r ffordd orau i’r Cynulliad fynd i’r afael â masnachu pobl ar gyfer rhyw yng Nghymru. Gadewch inni ddefnyddio’r un fuddugoliaeth hon fel sbardun i hawlio buddugoliaethau mwy o ran y fasnach ffiaidd hon.

Secondly, Counsel General, I would like you to consider bringing forward a debate on services for disabled children in Wales as a matter of urgency. Members will be aware that the most recent assessment of the children’s national service framework shows that services for disabled children are the worst performing services across the board. That is unacceptable and runs contrary to our priorities as an Assembly. Given this assessment, and in light of the massive step change announced in England, namely the Aiming High for Disabled Children: Better Support for Families project, surely it is time that we in Wales put disabled children and their families at the front of the queue for improved services. We have been allocated the money to do that; surely it is now time to match our warm words with hard cash. This is a matter of huge interest to Assembly Members from all parties, and would, therefore, make for a timely debate on which a quick consensus can be reached.

Yn ail, Gwnsler Cyffredinol, hoffwn ichi ystyried cyflwyno dadl ar wasanaethau ar gyfer plant anabl yng Nghymru fel mater o frys. Bydd yr Aelodau’n ymwybodol bod yr asesiad diweddaraf o’r fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol ar gyfer plant yn dangos mai gwasanaethau ar gyfer plant anabl yw’r gwasanaethau gwaelaf sydd ar gael. Mae hynny’n annerbyniol ac mae’n groes i’n blaenoriaethau fel Cynulliad. O ystyried yr asesiad hwn, ac yn sgîl y newid sylweddol a gyhoeddwyd yn Lloegr, sef y prosiect Aiming High for Disabled Children: Better Support for Families, onid yw’n bryd i ni yng Nghymru roi plant anabl a’u teuluoedd ym mlaen y ciw ar gyfer gwell gwasanaethau? Yr ydym wedi cael arian i wneud hynny; onid yw’n bryd yn awr inni roi arian sychion sy’n cyd-fynd â’n geiriau caredig? Mae’r mater hwn o ddiddordeb mawr i Aelodau’r Cynulliad o bob plaid, a byddai, o ganlyniad, yn destun dadl amserol y gellid dod i gytundeb buan arni.

The Presiding Officer: Order. You can answer as Leader of the House, but not as Counsel General.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Gallwch ateb fel Arweinydd y Tŷ, ond nid fel Cwnsler Cyffredinol.

3.10 p.m.

Carwyn Jones: In fairness to Lynne, the issue of sex trafficking and its advertising was raised with me as Leader of the House. Lynne will be aware, as will many Members, that finding Government time for debates between now and Christmas is exceptionally difficult, but that does not mean that Members should not be able to raise these important issues with Ministers, and also through committees.

Carwyn Jones: A bod yn deg â Lynne, dygwyd mater masnachu pobl ar gyfer rhyw a hysbysebu hynny i’m sylw fel Arweinydd y Tŷ. Bydd Lynne, fel llawer o’r Aelodau, yn ymwybodol bod canfod amser gan y Llywodraeth ar gyfer dadleuon o hyn i’r Nadolig yn eithriadol o anodd, ond nid yw hynny’n golygu na ddylai’r Aelodau allu dwyn y materion pwysig hyn i sylw’r Gweinidogion, a thrwy bwyllgorau hefyd.

With regard to the issue of sex trafficking, I note your thanks to me, Lynne, but the credit goes to you for having raised this exceptionally important issue, which relates to people who are doubly vulnerable as migrants to this country, and as young women subjected to a particularly brutal trade. You are quite right to say that what you have done has ensured that these advertisements are no longer carried within Wales, but I take your point that we need to spread the campaign that you began elsewhere in the UK. I will see what I can do in order to write to Trinity Mirror plc at a UK level to raise these issues.

O ran mater masnachu pobl ar gyfer rhyw, sylwaf eich bod yn diolch i mi, Lynne, ond chi biau’r clod am godi’r mater hynod bwysig hwn, sy’n ymwneud â phobl sy’n agored i niwed nid yn unig fel mewnfudwyr i’r wlad hon, ond hefyd fel merched ifanc sy’n dioddef yn sgîl masnach frwnt iawn. Yr ydych yn llygad eich lle wrth ddweud bod yr hyn yr ydych wedi’i wneud wedi sicrhau nad yw’r hysbysebion hyn i’w gweld yng Nghymru mwyach, ond derbyniaf eich pwynt bod angen inni fynd â’r ymgyrch a ddechreuwyd gennych chi i rannau eraill o’r DU. Caf weld beth y gallaf ei wneud er mwyn ysgrifennu at Trinity Mirror ccc ar lefel y DU er mwyn codi’r materion hyn.

Jenny Randerson: Going back to the budget, I think that Standing Order No. 14.1, in relation to the responsibilities of the Finance Committee, was the one to which you were referring. I was aware of the development of these Standing Orders, of course, and it is the case that Standing Order No. 12, which deals with scrutiny committees, does not in any way rule out those committees having an input into the budget. Indeed, it was anticipated that their background of expertise in the specific subject areas would be vital to the budget process, and that those committees would inform and provide vital information for the debate within the Finance Committee. Whether or not that vision is adhered to, the issue is that Ministers must be accountable to either the Finance Committee or to the individual scrutiny committees, and there is a debate to be had either way on that issue. I welcome your suggestion that we need to reach an agreement over the coming months as to how it is dealt with next year, in light of the rather unfortunate experience this year.

Jenny Randerson: Gan fynd yn ôl at y gyllideb, credaf mai Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 14.1, yn ymwneud â chyfrifoldebau’r Pwyllgor Cyllid, oedd yr un yr oeddech yn cyfeirio ati. Yr oeddwn yn ymwybodol o ddatblygiad y Rheolau Sefydlog hyn, wrth gwrs, ac nid yw Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 12, sy’n ymdrin â phwyllgorau craffu, yn dweud o gwbl na all y pwyllgorau hynny leisio barn ynglŷn â’r gyllideb. Yn wir, disgwylid y byddai’r arbenigedd sydd ganddynt yn y meysydd pwnc penodol yn hanfodol i broses y gyllideb, ac y byddai’r pwyllgorau hynny’n llywio’r ddadl yn y Pwyllgor Cyllid ac yn darparu gwybodaeth hanfodol ar ei chyfer. Pa un a yw’r weledigaeth honno’n cael ei dilyn ai peidio, y gwir amdani yw bod yn rhaid i Weinidogion fod yn atebol naill ai i’r Pwyllgor Cyllid neu i’r pwyllgorau craffu unigol, a gellid dadlau o blaid ac yn erbyn y mater hwnnw. Yr wyf yn croesawu eich awgrym bod angen inni ddod i gytundeb yn ystod y misoedd nesaf ynglŷn â sut y dylid ymdrin â hyn y flwyddyn nesaf, yng ngoleuni’r profiad eleni, sydd braidd yn anffodus.

The situation is that the timetable for this budget was set by Andrew Davies, the Minister for Finance and Public Service Delivery, and not by the committees; we must work to the timetable that he has set. The scenario was further developed by Andrew Davies when he refused to answer specific questions in Plenary and the Finance Committee when we tried to ask him about individual Ministers’ budgets. I am sure that you would accept that, within the very tight timescale that was given, it would be impossible for the Finance Committee to meet with every Minister individually, because it would involve the Finance Committee more or less meeting all day every day for a week, and would preclude anything else. Reality suggests that there must be an ongoing role for scrutiny committees, therefore, or that the cycle of the budget process must be lengthened. Will you take that into account in the discussions that you will have with committee Chairs and Ministers over the coming weeks and months, so that next year we do not have the rather unedifying spectacle of individual committees having to discuss at length whether or not the Minister is prepared to come in to see them?

Y sefyllfa yw bod yr amserlen ar gyfer y gyllideb hon wedi’i phennu gan Andrew Davies, y Gweinidog dros Gyllid a Chyflenwi Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus, ac nid gan y pwyllgorau; rhaid inni gadw at yr amserlen a bennwyd ganddo. Datblygwyd y senario ymhellach gan Andrew Davies pan wrthododd ateb cwestiynau penodol yn y Cyfarfod Llawn a’r Pwyllgor Cyllid pan geisiasom ei holi ynglŷn â chyllidebau Gweinidogion unigol. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddech yn derbyn y byddai’n amhosibl, o fewn yr amserlen gaeth iawn a roddwyd, i’r Pwyllgor Cyllid gyfarfod â phob Gweinidog yn unigol, oherwydd byddai’n rhaid i’r Pwyllgor Cyllid gyfarfod fwy neu lai drwy’r dydd bob diwrnod am wythnos, ac ni fyddai’n gallu gwneud dim byd arall. Mae realiti’n awgrymu bod yn rhaid i bwyllgorau craffu gael rôl barhaus, neu y dylid ymestyn cylch proses y gyllideb. A wnewch ystyried hynny yn y trafodaethau y byddwch yn eu cynnal gyda Chadeiryddion pwyllgorau a Gweinidogion yn ystod yr wythnosau a’r misoedd sydd i ddod, fel na fyddwn y flwyddyn nesaf yn wynebu sefyllfa gywilyddus lle y bydd pwyllgorau unigol yn gorfod treulio oriau’n trafod a yw’r Gweinidog yn barod i ddod i’w gweld ai peidio?

Carwyn Jones: First of all, I do not think that there is any question of reluctance on the part of Ministers to appear before committees. The timetable for the budget has been known for some time, and committee Chairs could have written weeks or months ago, had they wanted to, to invite Ministers to give evidence. I know that some committees were quicker than others to do so, and one or two committees may not have written formally at all, but it was open to them to do so. I do not think that it is fair to require Ministers’ attendance giving notice of a week or so—that is very difficult in terms of diaries—but there was nothing to stop committee Chairs from writing some weeks ago, if they wished to do so. In effect, you are suggesting a wholesale review of the Standing Orders surrounding the budget process.

Carwyn Jones: Yn gyntaf, nid wyf yn credu o gwbl fod Gweinidogion yn gyndyn o ymddangos gerbron pwyllgorau. Mae’r amserlen ar gyfer y gyllideb yn hysbys ers tro, a gallai Cadeiryddion pwyllgorau fod wedi ysgrifennu wythnosau neu fisoedd yn ôl, pe dymunent wneud hynny, i wahodd Gweinidogion i roi tystiolaeth. Gwn fod rhai pwyllgorau wedi gwneud hynny’n gynt nag eraill, ac mae’n bosibl bod un neu ddau nad ydynt wedi ysgrifennu’n ffurfiol o gwbl, ond yr oedd rhyddid iddynt wneud hynny. Nid wyf yn credu ei bod yn deg gofyn i Weinidogion fynychu cyfarfodydd wrth roi tuag wythnos o rybudd—mae hynny’n anodd iawn o ran dyddiaduron—ond nid oedd dim i atal Cadeiryddion pwyllgorau rhag ysgrifennu rai wythnosau’n ôl, os oeddent yn dymuno gwneud hynny. I bob diben, yr ydych yn awgrymu adolygiad llawn o’r Rheolau Sefydlog sy’n ymdrin â phroses y gyllideb.

Jenny Randerson: No, I am not.

Jenny Randerson: Nac ydwyf.

Carwyn Jones: With respect, you are, because if you are talking about extending the budget timetable, that will have all manner of knock-on effects on other Standing Orders. While you are right to say that scrutiny committees are not prohibited from asking Ministers to come before them, that is not explicitly required in the Standing Orders. That may suggest—although it is open to interpretation—that the Finance Committee is seen as the committee that would take the lead role in terms of scrutinising Ministers regarding the budget. That said, it is clear to me, as it may be to others in the Chamber, that we need to ensure that we have a process in place next year that is fully understandable to all Members and my Cabinet colleagues so that proper scrutiny of the budget can take place, be that in the Finance Committee or in another way. We will consider that for next year.

Carwyn Jones: Gyda pharch, yr ydych, oherwydd os ydych yn siarad am ymestyn amserlen y gyllideb, bydd hynny’n cael pob math o effeithiau canlyniadol ar Reolau Sefydlog eraill. Er eich bod yn iawn wrth ddweud nad yw’r pwyllgorau craffu’n cael eu gwahardd rhag gofyn i Weinidogion ymddangos ger eu bron, nid yw hynny’n ofyniad penodol yn y Rheolau Sefydlog. Efallai fod hynny’n awgrymu—er ei bod yn dibynnu sut yr ydych yn ei ddehongli—fod y Pwyllgor Cyllid yn cael ei weld fel y pwyllgor a fyddai’n arwain o ran craffu ar Weinidogion o safbwynt y gyllideb. Wedi dweud hynny, mae’n amlwg i mi, fel y mae efallai i eraill yn y Siambr, fod angen inni sicrhau bod gennym y flwyddyn nesaf broses wedi ei sefydlu sy’n gwbl ddealladwy i’r holl Aelodau ac i’m cyd-Weinidogion yn y Cabinet fel bod modd craffu’n iawn ar y gyllideb, boed hynny yn y Pwyllgor Cyllid neu drwy ryw ffordd arall. Byddwn yn ystyried hynny ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf.

The Presiding Officer: Order. Although I have allowed this exchange to take place, it would be much more appropriate to discuss these matters in the Business Committee.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Er fy mod wedi caniatáu i’r drafodaeth hon gael ei chynnal, byddai’n llawer mwy priodol i’r materion hyn gael eu trafod yn y Pwyllgor Busnes.

Chris Franks: Will you familiarise yourself with the business plan for the Remploy factory in Treforest, which was produced by Norman Watson of the Wales Co-operative Centre, who is a well-known and respected figure in the Valleys due to his work on the preparatory plan for the workers’ buy-out of Tower colliery? Will you press the case for the survival of the Treforest factory with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and find time for a statement on this issue?

Chris Franks: A wnewch sicrhau eich bod yn gyfarwydd â’r cynllun busnes ar gyfer ffatri Remploy yn Nhrefforest, a gynhyrchwyd gan Norman Watson o Ganolfan Gydweithredol Cymru, sy’n ffigwr adnabyddus ac uchel ei barch yn y Cymoedd oherwydd ei waith ar y cynllun paratoadol cyn i’r gweithwyr brynu Glofa’r Tŵr? A wnewch gymell yr achos o blaid cadw ffatri Trefforest gyda’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Waith a Phensiynau a chanfod amser ar gyfer datganiad ar y mater hwn?

Carwyn Jones: I cannot go beyond the answer that the First Minister gave to a question earlier on the Remploy factory in Treforest. He gave a full answer, particularly with regard to the possibility of another company being interested in operating the factory and employing the majority of the workers there. Many Members have given their views on the situation, and many constituency Members, including myself, have made representations on behalf of Remploy factories in our own constituencies. Many will remain concerned about the future of the Remploy factory in Treforest, and the factories in Ystradgynlais, Brynaman and Neath that the company plans to rationalise. However, the First Minister gave a full answer as regards the factory in Treforest this afternoon.

Carwyn Jones: Ni allaf fynd y tu hwnt i’r ateb a roddodd y Prif Weinidog i gwestiwn yn gynharach am ffatri Remploy yn Nhrefforest. Rhoddodd ateb llawn, yn enwedig ynglŷn â’r posibilrwydd y gallai fod gan gwmni arall ddiddordeb mewn rhedeg y ffatri a chyflogi’r mwyafrif o’r gweithwyr yno. Mae llawer o Aelodau wedi rhoi eu barn am y sefyllfa, ac mae llawer o Aelodau etholaeth, gan fy nghynnwys i, wedi cyflwyno sylwadau ar ran ffatrïoedd Remploy yn eu hetholaethau eu hunain. Bydd llawer yn dal yn bryderus am ddyfodol ffatri Remploy yn Nhrefforest, a’r ffatrïoedd yn Ystradgynlais, Brynaman a Chastell-nedd y mae’r cwmni’n bwriadu eu rhesymoli. Fodd bynnag, rhoddodd y Prif Weinidog ateb llawn ynglŷn â’r ffatri yn Nhrefforest y prynhawn yma.

Andrew R.T. Davies: I seek a written statement from the Deputy First Minister and Minister for the Economy and Transport on the land bank that the Assembly Government intends to build around the St Athan development? Many are aware of the plans regarding the Metrix development, but there is also the Aerospace Wales park. I understand that there is now a proposal for the South Wales Police helicopter fleet to be relocated to the St Athan area. There is great concern regarding what the Assembly Government is to achieve in that area in addition to what is currently being proposed. I seek a written statement on the land bank and the timeframe for the proposals to be implemented.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Yr wyf yn gofyn am ddatganiad ysgrifenedig gan y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth am y banc tir y mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn bwriadu ei sefydlu o amgylch y datblygiad yn Sain Tathan. Mae llawer yn ymwybodol o’r cynlluniau ynglŷn â datblygiad Metrix, ond rhaid meddwl hefyd am barc Awyrofod Cymru. Deallaf fod cynnig erbyn hyn i fflyd hofrenyddion Heddlu De Cymru gael ei hadleoli yn ardal Sain Tathan. Mae pryder mawr ynglŷn â’r hyn y mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn mynd i’w gyflawni yn yr ardal honno yn ychwanegol at yr hyn sy’n cael ei gynnig ar hyn o bryd. Gofynnaf am ddatganiad ysgrifenedig am y banc tir a’r amserlen er mwyn gweithredu’r cynigion.

Carwyn Jones: I am sure that that can be addressed via a letter or a written statement by the appropriate Minister, who will read what you have said today.

Carwyn Jones: Yr wyf yn siŵr bod modd ymdrin â hynny drwy lythyr neu ddatganiad ysgrifenedig gan y Gweinidog priodol, a fydd yn darllen yr hyn yr ydych wedi’i ddweud heddiw.

Alun Davies: I will return to the issue of Remploy. As you said in your reply to an earlier question, the issue goes beyond the factory in Treforest. While we are pleased that there is a future for the factories that have been given a reprieve and will not face closure, there are issues regarding the two factories in Ystradgynlais and Brynaman in Mid and West Wales, which are essentially facing closure—the merger with the Baglan factory is simply a means of disguising the closure. Would it be possible to find time for the Deputy First Minister and Minister for the Economy and Transport, or another appropriate Minister, to make a full statement in the Chamber on how the Assembly Government can work with the Department for Work and Pensions to secure a realistic future for these facilities in these communities?

Alun Davies: Dof yn ôl at fater Remploy. Fel y dywedasoch yn eich ateb i gwestiwn cynharach, mae’r mater yn mynd y tu hwnt i’r ffatri yn Nhrefforest. Er ein bod yn falch bod dyfodol i’r ffatrïoedd sydd wedi cael eu hachub ac na fyddant yn gorfod cau, mae cwestiynau ynglŷn â’r ddwy ffatri yn Ystradgynlais a Brynaman yng Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru, sydd yn eu hanfod yn mynd i gael eu cau—nid yw’r uno â’r ffatri ym Maglan yn ddim ond ffordd o gelu’r cau. A fyddai’n bosibl canfod amser i’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth, neu Weinidog priodol arall, wneud datganiad llawn yn y Siambr am sut y gall Llywodraeth y Cynulliad weithio gyda’r Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau i sicrhau dyfodol realistig i’r cyfleusterau hyn yn y cymunedau hyn?

Carwyn Jones: I am sure that the Deputy First Minister, who has made his views regarding the situation at Remploy clear many times in the past, would be more than happy to share with you the progress that has been made so far and his view as to the future of those plants. Many people in the upper Amman, Neath and Swansea valleys will be concerned about the three plants that are due to be rationalised, as there will be concern at Treforest. I am sure that he will have his views as to how matters should be progressed with regard to the future of those plants.

Carwyn Jones: Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog, sydd wedi gwneud ei farn am y sefyllfa yn Remploy yn glir droeon yn y gorffennol, yn fwy na pharod i rannu â chi y cynnydd sydd wedi cael ei wneud hyd yma a’i farn ef ynglŷn â dyfodol y ffatrïoedd hynny. Bydd llawer o bobl ym mhen uchaf cymoedd Aman, Castell-nedd ac Abertawe yn pryderu am y tair ffatri sydd i gael eu rhesymoli, yn yr un modd ag y bydd pryder yn Nhrefforest. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd ganddo farn am sut y dylid bwrw ymlaen â materion o ran dyfodol y ffatrïoedd hynny.

3.20 p.m.

Peter Black: Will the Leader of the House consider asking the Minister for Social Justice and Local Government to make a statement on the details of his expenditure plans for the next financial year, and subsequent years, given the reluctance of the Minister for Finance and Public Service Delivery to answer questions on that subject in a previous Plenary session and the inability of the committee to scrutinise him on that?

Peter Black: A wnaiff Arweinydd y Tŷ ystyried gofyn i’r Gweinidog dros Gyfiawnder Cymdeithasol a Llywodraeth Leol wneud datganiad am fanylion ei gynlluniau gwariant yn y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf, a’r blynyddoedd dilynol, o ystyried amharodrwydd y Gweinidog dros Gyllid a Chyflenwi Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus i ateb cwestiynau am y pwnc hwnnw mewn Cyfarfod Llawn blaenorol ac anallu’r pwyllgor i graffu arno o safbwynt hynny?

Carwyn Jones: It is all there in black and white; I suggest that Peter reads the budget itself.

Carwyn Jones: Mae’r cyfan yno mewn du a gwyn; awgrymaf fod Peter yn darllen y gyllideb ei hun.

Joyce Watson: I also have questions about Remploy. Is the Leader of the House aware that a working group has been set up and that solutions are being put forward to Remploy and the Secretary of State? Would he allow some time to be set aside to discuss in the Chamber the serious issues of Remploy in Ystradgynlais and Brynaman and to consider the solutions that are on the table to see if we can facilitate a future for those facilities?

Joyce Watson: Mae gennyf finnau hefyd gwestiynau am Remploy. A yw Arweinydd y Tŷ’n ymwybodol bod gweithgor wedi cael ei sefydlu a bod atebion yn cael eu cyflwyno i Remploy a’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol? A fyddai’n caniatáu neilltuo amser i drafod y materion difrifol o ran Remploy yn Ystradgynlais a Brynaman yn y Siambr ac i ystyried yr atebion sydd wedi cael eu cyflwyno i weld a allwn hwyluso dyfodol i’r cyfleusterau hynny?

Carwyn Jones: While I share your concern about those factories, I am not able to offer any Government time to discuss the situation at Remploy. It has been discussed at length in the Chamber in previous months and I am sure that the Deputy First Minister would be more than happy to address your concerns if you were to raise them with him.

Carwyn Jones: Er fy mod innau, fel chithau, yn pryderu am y ffatrïoedd hynny, ni allaf gynnig dim amser o eiddo’r Llywodraeth i drafod y sefyllfa yn Remploy. Mae wedi cael ei thrafod yn helaeth yn y Siambr yn ystod y misoedd blaenorol ac yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog yn fwy na pharod i roi sylw i’ch pryderon petaech yn eu codi gydag ef.

Kirsty Williams: Why are you not able to give any Government time in the Chamber for a discussion about the situation at Remploy in Treforest, Brynaman and Ystradgynlais? Why are you not able to do that?

Kirsty Williams: Pam nad ydych yn gallu rhoi dim amser o eiddo’r Llywodraeth yn y Siambr i gael trafodaeth am y sefyllfa yn ffatrïoedd Remploy yn Nhrefforest, Brynaman ac Ystradgynlais? Pam nad ydych yn gallu gwneud hynny?

Carwyn Jones: Byddwch yn sylwi, Kirsty, fod yr amserlen fusnes yn llawn iawn o hyn i’r Nadolig. Mae nifer o eitemau o fusnes y Llywodraeth y mae’n rhaid iddynt fynd drwy Gyfarfod Llawn, ac yn ogystal mae mater craffu ar Weinidogion. Nid yw hynny, wrth gwrs, yn atal y gwrthbleidiau rhag codi mater Remploy drwy ddadl plaid leiafrifol, os yw’r gwrthbleidiau o’r farn ei fod yn ddigon pwysig.

The Minister for Health and Social Services (Edwina Hart): I am grateful for the opportunity to make a statement concerning dental services and oral health. The new arrangements for commissioning primary dental care services in the national health service have now been in place for some 18 months. The new contract has helped to stabilise the provision of NHS dental services and improved access for patients. Local health boards have been able to bring in new services if a dentist leaves or reduces their NHS commitment, and have found little shortage of takers for new or expanded contracts, when offered. Access problems are now confined to a very few areas and work goes on to improve the position. We expect further progress over the next few months to reach a consistent position where everyone in Wales who wants access to NHS dental care will be able to get it. However, I also recognise it has been a challenging time for dentists and the national health service. I have listened to the concerns expressed by those in the dental profession, local health boards and patients about certain operational aspects of the contract. Today’s statement arises from those concerns.

Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Edwina Hart): Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y cyfle i wneud datganiad ynglŷn â gwasanaethau deintyddol ac iechyd y geg. Mae’r trefniadau newydd i gomisiynu gwasanaethau gofal deintyddol sylfaenol yn y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol wedi bod ar waith ers rhyw 18 mis erbyn hyn. Mae’r contract newydd wedi helpu i sefydlogi darpariaeth gwasanaethau deintyddol y GIG a gwella mynediad i gleifion. Mae’r byrddau iechyd lleol wedi gallu dod â gwasanaethau newydd i mewn os oes deintydd yn gadael neu’n lleihau ei ymrwymiad i’r GIG, ac maent wedi canfod nad oes fawr o brinder deintyddion i ymgymryd â chontractau newydd neu rai wedi’u hehangu, pan gânt eu cynnig. Mae’r problemau mynediad wedi’u cyfyngu erbyn hyn i nifer fach iawn o ardaloedd ac mae’r gwaith yn parhau i wella’r sefyllfa. Yr ydym yn disgwyl cynnydd pellach dros y misoedd nesaf er mwyn cyrraedd sefyllfa gyson lle y bydd pawb yng Nghymru sydd am gael mynediad at ofal deintyddol GIG yn gallu gwneud hynny. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn cydnabod hefyd fod hwn wedi bod yn gyfnod anodd i ddeintyddion a’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Yr wyf wedi gwrando ar y pryderon a fynegwyd gan y rhai sydd yn y proffesiwn deintyddol, y byrddau iechyd lleol a chleifion am rai agweddau gweithredol ar y contract. Mae’r datganiad heddiw yn deillio o’r pryderon hynny.

I have, therefore, decided to undertake a review of the operation of the dental contract following its first full year. I am announcing today the establishment of a task and finish group, involving representatives of the dental profession, local health boards and community health councils, to be serviced by Welsh Assembly Government staff, to look at a range of issues to improve the way in which the dental contract works. I have asked Professor Wayne Richards to chair the group. Uniquely, he combines NHS dental practice with a part-time post as a visiting professor of community general dental practice at the University of Glamorgan. I believe this combination of practical and academic expertise will be invaluable in the role of chair. The group will also lay the ground for fulfilling the Welsh Assembly Government’s published goal of consolidating and developing the community dental service in Wales.

Yr wyf, felly, wedi penderfynu cynnal adolygiad o weithrediad y contract deintyddol ar ôl ei flwyddyn lawn gyntaf. Yr wyf yn cyhoeddi heddiw fod grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen i gael ei sefydlu, gan gynnwys cynrychiolwyr o’r proffesiwn deintyddol, y byrddau iechyd lleol a’r cynghorau iechyd cymuned, i gael ei wasanaethu gan staff Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, i edrych ar amryw o faterion i wella’r ffordd y mae’r contract deintyddol yn gweithio. Yr wyf wedi gofyn i’r Athro Wayne Richards gadeirio’r grŵp. Mae’n unigryw, gan ei fod yn cyfuno gwaith mewn practis deintyddol dan y GIG â swydd ran-amser fel athro gwadd mewn ymarfer deintyddol cyffredinol cymunedol ym Mhrifysgol Morgannwg. Credaf y bydd y cyfuniad hwn o arbenigedd ymarferol ac academaidd yn amhrisiadwy yn rôl y cadeirydd. Bydd y grŵp hefyd yn braenaru’r tir ar gyfer gwireddu amcan cyhoeddedig Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru o gyfnerthu a datblygu’r gwasanaeth deintyddol cymunedol yng Nghymru.

The second element of my statement concerns oral health. Wales has a poor record on oral health. Some of our children have some of the worst teeth in Europe. The dental health of five-year-old children in Wales is the worst in Great Britain. That is not acceptable for what is an almost totally preventable disease. Therefore, I am announcing today the development of a national oral health action plan for Wales. That will set out a range of actions designed to improve oral health. It will encourage individuals to take better control of their oral health, guide dental practices to focus more on preventive care and enable us to tackle long-standing oral health inequalities.

Mae a wnelo’r ail elfen yn fy natganiad ag iechyd y geg. Mae gan Gymru record wael o ran iechyd y geg. Mae gan rai o’n plant y dannedd gwaethaf yn Ewrop. Iechyd deintyddol plant pum oed yng Nghymru yw’r gwaethaf ym Mhrydain Fawr. Nid yw hynny’n dderbyniol o ran clefyd y mae modd ei atal yn gyfan gwbl bron. Felly, yr wyf yn cyhoeddi heddiw fod cynllun gweithredu cenedlaethol ar iechyd y geg i gael ei ddatblygu i Gymru. Bydd yn datgan ystod o gamau gweithredu sydd â’r nod o wella iechyd y geg. Bydd yn annog unigolion i reoli eu hiechyd eu hunain o ran y geg yn well, yn arwain practisau deintyddol i ganolbwyntio mwy ar ofal ataliol ac yn ein galluogi i fynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebau o ran iechyd y geg sy’n bod ers amser maith.

A public health strategy for Wales is currently being developed. Set in that context, our priorities will be to ensure that oral health is truly integrated into the wider public health agenda and that commissioners give local oral health action plans a high priority. I wish to see the adoption of a multi-agency approach to oral health in which schools and parents play a vital role. Central to the strategy will be a strengthened public dentistry role for the community dental service. In addition, through the work of the dental contract review group, we will work towards family general dental services, shifting the emphasis to preventive care. It is through a national plan of action that we will best overcome the differences between the oral health of children from the least well-off and most well-off families.

Mae strategaeth iechyd cyhoeddus i Gymru yn cael ei datblygu ar hyn o bryd. Yn y cyd-destun hwnnw, ein blaenoriaethau fydd sicrhau bod iechyd y geg yn cael ei integreiddio o ddifrif â’r agenda iechyd cyhoeddus ehangach a bod comisiynwyr yn rhoi blaenoriaeth uchel i gynlluniau gweithredu lleol ar iechyd y geg. Yr wyf am weld dull amlasiantaethol o ymdrin ag iechyd y geg yn cael ei fabwysiadu lle y bydd ysgolion a rhieni’n chwarae rhan hanfodol. Rhan ganolog o’r strategaeth fydd rôl gryfach o ran deintyddiaeth gyhoeddus i’r gwasanaeth deintyddol cymunedol. Yn ogystal, drwy waith grŵp adolygu’r contract deintyddol, byddwn yn gweithio tuag at wasanaethau deintyddol cyffredinol teuluol, gan newid y pwyslais i ofal ataliol. Y dull gorau inni oresgyn y gwahaniaethau o ran iechyd y geg rhwng plant o’r teuluoedd lleiaf cefnog a’r teuluoedd mwyaf cefnog yw drwy gynllun gweithredu cenedlaethol.

'Eradicating Child Poverty in Wales—Measuring Success’ sets out the Welsh Assembly Government’s targets and milestones for reducing the levels of dental decay among children. Our first aim is that, by 2020, the dental health of five-year-olds and 12-year-olds in the most deprived fifth of the population will improve to that presently found in the middle fifth. I believe that those are realistic targets that can be achieved and even bettered. That will tackle the combined efforts of a range of different public agencies and professionals and will encourage a renewed sense of responsibility among some patients and parents. I am glad to have had the opportunity to make this set of announcements on re-energising that process in Plenary today.

Mae 'Cael Gwared ar Dlodi Plant yng Nghymru—Mesur Llwyddiant’ yn datgan targedau a cherrig milltir Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ar gyfer gostwng lefelau pydredd dannedd ymysg plant. Ein nod cyntaf, erbyn 2020, yw y bydd iechyd deintyddol plant pump oed a phlant 12 oed yn yr un rhan o bump mwyaf difreintiedig o’r boblogaeth yn gwella i’r lefel a geir ar hyn o bryd yn yr un rhan o bump sydd yn y canol. Credaf fod y rheini’n dargedau realistig y mae modd eu cyrraedd neu hyd yn oed ragori arnynt. Bydd hynny’n mynd i’r afael ag ymdrechion amryw o asiantaethau cyhoeddus gwahanol a gweithwyr proffesiynol gyda’i gilydd a bydd yn annog ymdeimlad o gyfrifoldeb o’r newydd ymysg rhai cleifion a rhieni. Yr wyf yn falch fy mod wedi cael y cyfle i wneud y gyfres hon o gyhoeddiadau yn y Cyfarfod Llawn heddiw am yr egni newydd sy’n cael ei gyflwyno i’r broses honno.

Jonathan Morgan: I thank the Minister for the statement. I believe that we have not spent sufficient time in the Assembly, whether that is in Plenary, during Government debates or during opposition debates, discussing the dental profession and the people who work in it and issues around oral health generally. Therefore, I am pleased that we have a statement on this.

Jonathan Morgan: Diolchaf i’r Gweinidog am y datganiad. Credaf nad ydym wedi treulio digon o amser yn y Cynulliad, boed hynny mewn Cyfarfodydd Llawn, yn ystod dadleuon y Llywodraeth neu yn ystod dadleuon y gwrthbleidiau, yn trafod y proffesiwn deintyddol a’r bobl sy’n gweithio ynddo a materion yn ymwneud ag iechyd y geg yn gyffredinol. Felly, yr wyf yn falch bod gennym ddatganiad am hyn.

You said in your statement, Minister, that the new contract has helped to stabilise the provision of NHS dental services and has improved access for patients. Can you demonstrate any evidence to support that claim? Can you show any figures that demonstrate that more people in Wales are now registered with a dentist compared with when the contract was introduced? Can you confirm whether or not the stabilisation of the provision of NHS dental services has been through the use of the private sector, in particular the large, private dental organisations that have been providing work in some of our deprived communities? I understand, for example, that the former Minister for Health and Social Servcies’s constituency had one of the largest numbers of people anywhere in Wales registered with one of the large dental practitioners. Can you confirm the role of the large private companies in developing and delivering what you see as a stabilised provision of dental services?

Dywedasoch yn eich datganiad, Weinidog, fod y contract newydd wedi helpu i sefydlogi darpariaeth gwasanaethau deintyddol y GIG ac wedi gwella mynediad i gleifion. A allwch ddangos unrhyw dystiolaeth i gefnogi’r haeriad hwnnw? A allwch ddangos unrhyw ffigurau sy’n dangos bod mwy o bobl yng Nghymru wedi cofrestru gyda deintydd yn awr o’i gymharu â phan gyflwynwyd y contract? A allwch gadarnhau a yw’r sefydlogi darpariaeth gwasanaethau deintyddol y GIG wedi digwydd drwy ddefnyddio’r sector preifat ai peidio, yn enwedig y sefydliadau deintyddol preifat, mawr sydd wedi bod yn darparu gwaith yn rhai o’n cymunedau difreintiedig? Deallaf, er enghraifft, fod gan etholaeth y cyn Weinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol un o’r niferoedd mwyaf o bobl yn unrhyw le yng Nghymru sydd wedi cofrestru gydag un o’r ymarferwyr deintyddol mawr. A allwch gadarnhau rôl y cwmnïau preifat mawr o ran datblygu a chyflwyno’r hyn yr ydych yn ei gweld fel darpariaeth gwasanaethau deintyddol sydd wedi’i sefydlogi?

I see that you are also going to announce a review and the membership of the review group. I welcome the fact that Professor Wayne Richards is to chair that group. Do you accept that the Government was not able to carry the dental profession with it when the dental contract was announced? I hope that you will admit that it was quite rare to find a group of medical practitioners who were overly supportive of the contract that had been announced—and there have been other medical professional contract announcements, such as that for consultants, 'Agenda for Change’ for nurses, and the general medical services contract. Is this review now being announced because of concerns raised by dental professionals then?

Gwelaf eich bod hefyd yn mynd i gyhoeddi adolygiad ac aelodaeth y grŵp adolygu. Croesawaf y ffaith y bydd y grŵp yn cael ei gadeirio gan yr Athro Wayne Richards. A ydych yn derbyn na lwyddodd y Llywodraeth i ddarbwyllo’r proffesiwn deintyddol pan gyhoeddwyd y contract deintyddol? Gobeithiaf y byddwch yn cyfaddef ei bod yn bur anghyffredin canfod grŵp o ymarferwyr meddygol oedd yn hynod o gefnogol i’r contract a gyhoeddwyd—a chafwyd cyhoeddiadau eraill am gontractau proffesiynol meddygol, fel yr un i ymgynghorwyr, yr 'Agenda ar gyfer Newid’ i nyrsys, a’r contract gwasanaethau meddygol cyffredinol. A yw’r adolygiad hwn yn cael ei gyhoeddi’n awr oherwydd pryderon a godwyd gan weithwyr deintyddol proffesiynol bryd hynny?

In its evidence to the Health, Wellbeing and Local Government Committee, which is meeting tomorrow, the British Dental Association has talked about some of the challenges that dental practices face, particularly in their relationship with local health boards. This is certainly one part of the service that needs to be examined. In its evidence for tomorrow, the BDA states clearly that there have been many examples of LHBs failing to offer dental practices a contract to allow them to expand their NHS provision, either by allowing the vocational dental practitioner to remain following the completion of his or her training year or by recruiting a new dentist. It is that obstinacy that they refer to of local health boards in failing to agree contracts, which then causes them difficulties as dental practices in expanding their practices and offering a greater range of services to a greater number of people. Will you confirm that you will look at that relationship, which is clearly a problem for many dental practices in Wales today?

Yn ei thystiolaeth i’r Pwyllgor Iechyd, Lles a Llywodraeth Leol, sy’n cwrdd yfory, mae Cymdeithas Ddeintyddol Prydain wedi siarad am rai o’r sialensiau sy’n wynebu practisau deintyddol, yn arbennig yn eu perthynas â’r byrddau iechyd lleol. Mae hyn yn sicr yn un rhan o’r gwasanaeth y mae angen edrych arni. Yn ei thystiolaeth ar gyfer yfory, dywed y gymdeithas ddeintyddol yn glir fod llawer o enghreifftiau wedi bod o BILlau yn methu â chynnig contract i bractisau deintyddol i ganiatáu iddynt ehangu eu darpariaeth GIG, un ai drwy ganiatáu i’r ymarferydd deintyddol galwedigaethol aros ar ôl cwblhau ei flwyddyn hyfforddi neu ei blwyddyn hyfforddi neu drwy recriwtio deintydd newydd. Yr ystyfnigrwydd hwnnw y cyfeiriant ato gan fyrddau iechyd lleol wrth fethu â chytuno ar gontractau, sydd wedyn yn achosi anawsterau iddynt fel practis deintyddol o ran ehangu eu practisau a chynnig ystod ehangach o wasanaethau i fwy o bobl. A gadarnhewch yr edrychwch ar y berthynas honno, sy’n amlwg yn broblem i sawl practis deintyddol yng Nghymru heddiw?

3.30 p.m.

On the second part of your statement, I welcome the move towards a national oral health action plan for Wales. However, ultimately, what we need to see over the next five to 10 years is a real improvement in oral health in Wales, particularly among young children. I agree with you about what is an almost totally preventable disease. Most medical practitioners would argue that the best way of doing that is to increase the fluoridation of the water supply. That is a politically contentious move for any Government to take, as there will be differences of opinion; I am not convinced of the need for mass medication. However, that is one way of preventing tooth decay among children, so are you considering that?

O ran ail ran eich datganiad, croesawaf y cam tuag at greu cynllun gweithredu cenedlaethol ar gyfer iechyd y geg yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, yn y pen draw, yr hyn y mae angen inni ei weld dros y 5 i 10 mlynedd nesaf yw gwelliant gwirioneddol mewn iechyd y geg yng Nghymru, yn arbennig ymysg plant ifanc. Cytunaf â chi ynghylch yr hyn sy’n glefyd y gellir ei atal yn gyfan gwbl bron. Byddai’r rhan fwyaf o ymarferwyr meddygol yn dadlau mai’r ffordd orau o wneud hynny yw cynyddu’r fflworid yn y cyflenwad dŵr. Mae hynny’n gam dadleuol yn wleidyddol i unrhyw Lywodraeth ei gymryd, gan y bydd gwahaniaeth barn; nid wyf yn argyhoeddedig o’r angen am feddyginiaeth dorfol. Fodd bynnag, mae hynny’n un ffordd o atal pydredd dannedd ymysg plant, felly a ydych yn ystyried hynny?

You also said that there is a huge difference between the oral health of children from the least well-off areas and those from the most well-off areas. There is only one way, apart from increasing fluoridation, of tackling this, which is to look at investing in dental practices in some of the more deprived parts of Wales. You are right to say that there is a huge split between those who are economically well off, and those who are economically not so well off in terms of their dental health. There are only a few radical ways of addressing that problem, and, in addition to fluoridation, ensuring a greater supply of community dental practitioners in those poorer communities is probably the only other way of tackling it.

Dywedasoch hefyd fod gwahaniaeth enfawr rhwng iechyd y geg ymysg plant o’r ardaloedd llai cefnog a’r rhai o’r ardaloedd mwyaf cefnog. Ar wahân i gynyddu fflworeiddio, dim ond un ffordd sydd o fynd i’r afael â hyn, sef edrych ar fuddsoddi mewn practisau deintyddol yn rhai o ardaloedd mwy difreintiedig Cymru. Yr ydych yn llygad eich lle bod hollt enfawr rhwng y bobl fwyaf cefnog a’r bobl leiaf cefnog o ran eu hiechyd deintyddol. Dim ond ychydig o ddulliau radical sydd o fynd i’r afael â’r broblem honno, ac, yn ogystal â fflworeiddio, sicrhau mwy o gyflenwad o ymarferwyr deintyddol cymunedol yn y cymunedau tlotach hynny yw’r unig ffordd arall o fynd i’r afael ag ef, mae’n debyg.

You mentioned the role of schools and parents. I have never understood why some parents fail to take an interest in their children’s oral health. Improving the work of schools in this regard could be done by either putting more school nurses into schools and training them and giving them the ability to inform children as to how to look after their teeth, or by allowing the community dental service to go into schools to advance the cause of oral health. Therefore, I would be keen to hear more from you as to how you intend to tackle that.

I am pleased with this statement, but I have one final question. Looking at the review that you intend to pursue with regard to the dental contract, and bearing in mind the problems that we have seen with other contracts, particularly the general medical services contract, do you intend to instigate any other review, or will it merely be confined to the dental contract in Wales?

Edwina Hart: I am glad that you broadly welcome the review, Jonathan. Like you, I feel that we need to concentrate on dentistry issues, and not only on dentists’ contracts, but on the oral health of our children and how that impacts on them in later life.

Edwina Hart: Yr wyf yn falch eich bod yn croesawu’r adolygiad yn gyffredinol, Jonathan. Yr wyf fi, fel chithau, yn teimlo bod angen inni ganolbwyntio ar faterion deintyddol, ac nid dim ond ar gontractau deintyddion, ond ar iechyd y geg ein plant a sut y mae hynny’n effeithio arnynt yn ddiweddarach yn eu bywydau.

On the contracts, I am interested in the dental contract and how it has worked 12 months down the line. I am particularly interested—not only as a constituency Assembly Member who receives many letters about this, but as a Minister who receives letters from fellow Assembly Members—in issues around the dental contract and the difficulties that some dentists have had with their LHBs when they have looked at expansion plans. I want to know whether they have all been dealt with in the same manner by each LHB. That is a key issue for me.

O ran y contractau, mae diddordeb gennyf yn y contract deintyddol a sut y mae wedi gweithio 12 mis ar ôl ei gyflwyno. Mae gennyf ddiddordeb arbennig—nid yn unig fel Aelod Cynulliad dros etholaeth sy’n cael llawer o lythyrau am hyn, ond fel Gweinidog sy’n cael llythyrau gan gyd-Aelodau o’r Cynulliad—mewn materion sy’n ymwneud â’r contract deintyddol a’r anawsterau y mae rhai deintyddion wedi eu cael gyda’u BILlau wrth edrych ar gynlluniau i ehangu. Hoffwn wybod a yw pob BILl wedi ymdrin â hwy yn yr un modd. Mae hwnnw’n fater allweddol imi.

On the other contracts, I am interested in how I will utilise the new pharmacy contract. I have had some discussions about how I might use the GPs’ contract in the areas that I might wish to look at, even if it is only in terms of payment for enhanced services. Therefore, these are ongoing discussions.

O ran y contractau eraill, mae gennyf ddiddordeb yn y ffordd y byddaf yn defnyddio’r contract newydd i fferyllwyr. Yr wyf wedi cynnal rhai trafodaethau ynghylch sut y gallwn ddefnyddio’r contract meddygon teulu yn y meysydd y gallwn fod yn awyddus i edrych arnynt, hyd yn oed os mai dim ond o ran talu am well gwasanaethau y bydd hynny. Felly, mae’r trafodaethau hyn yn parhau.

You are right about parents and schools, as school is the place to get them at a young age. I have always found it strange that parents do not take more of an interest in their children’s oral health, but perhaps we should also be looking at the oral health of those parents who do not take an interest. It could be a generational issue, because they have never had a dentist, or there could be many other reasons. Therefore, we have a role and a function in this regard. One area that I have looked at is an enhanced role for community dental services, giving consideration to where community dental practices are based. These issues will form part of my discussions.

Yr ydych yn gywir ynghylch rhieni ac ysgolion, gan mai’r ysgol yw’r lle i gyrraedd plant ifanc. Yr wyf bob amser wedi ei gweld yn rhyfedd nad yw rhieni’n cymryd mwy o ddiddordeb yn iechyd y geg eu plant, ond efallai y dylem fod yn edrych ar iechyd y geg y rhieni hynny nad ydynt yn cymryd diddordeb hefyd. Gallai fod yn broblem sy’n ymwneud â chenhedlaeth, gan na fu ganddynt ddeintydd erioed, neu gallai fod sawl rheswm arall. Felly, mae gennym rôl a swyddogaeth yn hyn o beth. Un maes yr wyf wedi edrych arno yw ehangu rôl y gwasanaethau deintyddol cymunedol, gan ystyried lleoliad practisau deintyddol cymunedol. Bydd y materion hyn yn rhan o’m trafodaethau.

An issue that dentists and those in the profession always raise with me, like you, is fluoridation. Like you, I remain to be convinced about some of the arguments on this issue. If I ever decide to bring forward anything to the Chamber on this subject, it would be a brave political party that would not allow Members a free vote on some of the issues. We have lobbying on both sides; there has been effective lobbying by those against fluoridation as well as by those in favour of fluoridation. You are right that there are some big issues related this matter in terms of the resources that will have to be made available when these plans are developed.

Un mater y mae deintyddion a’r rhai sy’n rhan o’r proffesiwn yn ei godi â mi bob tro, fel chithau, yw fflworeiddio. Fel chithau, nid wyf yn gwbl argyhoeddedig ynghylch rhai o’r dadleuon ar y mater hwn. Os penderfynaf ryw dro gyflwyno unrhyw beth i’r Siambr ar y pwnc hwn, plaid ddewr fyddai’r un na fyddai’n caniatáu pleidlais rydd i’r Aelodau ar rai o’r materion. Mae gennym garfanau lobïo ar y ddwy ochr; cafwyd lobïo effeithiol gan y rhai yn erbyn fflworeiddio yn ogystal â chan y rhai o’i blaid. Yr ydych yn gywir wrth ddweud bod problemau mawr yn gysylltiedig â’r mater hwn o ran yr adnoddau y bydd eu hangen pan gaiff y cynlluniau hyn eu datblygu.

I am aware of the concern of the British Dental Association about local health boards, and I am well aware of the concerns of individual dentists. Their ability to use e-mail to come directly through to the Minister to submit their queries on some of their contracts is amazing. We have had a lot of correspondence about this. I am also aware that this contract was not as well received as other contracts in certain circles. It is important that we get it working on a correct basis that benefits the people of Wales.

Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o bryder Cymdeithas Ddeintyddol Prydain ynghylch byrddau iechyd lleol, ac yr wyf yn llwyr ymwybodol o bryderon deintyddion unigol. Mae eu gallu i ddefnyddio’r e-bost i gyflwyno eu hymholiadau ynghylch rhai o’u contractau yn uniongyrchol i’r Gweinidog yn rhyfeddol. Yr ydym wedi cael llawer o ohebiaeth am hyn. Yr wyf hefyd yn ymwybodol na chafodd y contract hwn gystal croeso â chontractau eraill ymysg rhai carfanau. Mae’n bwysig inni sicrhau ei fod yn gweithio’n gywir mewn ffordd sydd o fudd i bobl Cymru.

My reasons for the review were probably twofold. I wanted to be sure about the contract and that the local health boards were all functioning properly in relation to it. I also wanted to have the views of the profession. Looking at who will become involved, as part of Professor Wayne Richards’s report, I will be involving practitioners and people from community health councils and local health boards, so that we can have a good look at the subject across the piece.

Mae’n debyg bod gennyf ddau reswm dros yr adolygiad. Yr oeddwn am fod yn siŵr ynghylch y contract a sicrhau bod y byrddau iechyd lleol i gyd yn gweithredu’n gywir mewn perthynas ag ef. Yr oeddwn hefyd am gael barn y proffesiwn. O ystyried pwy fydd yn rhan ohono, fel rhan o adroddiad yr Athro Wayne Richards, byddaf yn cynnwys ymarferwyr a phobl o’r cynghorau iechyd cymuned a’r byrddau iechyd lleol, er mwyn inni allu edrych yn fanwl ar y pwnc ar draws y maes cyfan.

The second reason for the review is that I think that dentistry has to be moved higher up the health agenda. That is why I want to look at oral health issues. I hope that this will be of interest to all parties in the Chamber. I would be happy to receive assistance from other political parties and any suggestions that they want to make in terms of the ongoing work.

Yr ail reswm dros yr adolygiad yw fy mod yn credu bod angen rhoi mwy o flaenoriaeth i ddeintyddiaeth yn yr agenda iechyd. Dyna pam yr wyf am edrych ar faterion iechyd y geg. Gobeithiaf y bydd hyn o ddiddordeb i bob plaid yn y Siambr. Byddwn yn barod i dderbyn cymorth gan bleidiau gwleidyddol eraill ac unrhyw awgrymiadau y maent am eu gwneud o ran y gwaith sy’n mynd rhagddo.

Helen Mary Jones: Thank you for the statement, Minister. I concur with Jonathan Morgan that this is an issue that, perhaps, we have not yet given enough attention. I support the review that you propose to put in place.

Helen Mary Jones: Diolch ichi am y datganiad, Weinidog. Cytunaf â Jonathan Morgan fod hwn yn fater nad ydym wedi rhoi digon o sylw iddo eto. Cefnogaf yr adolygiad y bwriadwch ei gynnal.

We must all acknowledge that there has been some substantial progress. However, real challenges remain, some of which are related to unintended consequences of the new contract that need to be addressed and unpicked.

I hope that the review will be able to look below the headline figures. I wish to raise one specific issue that has arisen from my own constituency with regard to access to services. Having talked to other Assembly Members, I have found that this is not an uncommon problem. We have a situation where patients are being referred by the local health board to practices that are often large practices employing salaried dentists in the private sector. Those patients then appear to drop off the waiting list held by the local health board, but they often have to wait months to be seen by a dentist and to have their oral health needs assessed and addressed. Will you ensure, Minister, that your review investigates this particular problem? I would be happy to provide the review with specific evidence with regard to Carmarthenshire, if that would be of assistance.

In that context, I hope that the review will be able to look at the role of the large private practices paying salaried dentists. There can be no doubt that some of these have had a positive impact. Again, I have anecdotal evidence that suggests that there have been some problems with these companies giving long-term commitments, especially to some of our poorer communities where the oral health needs may be significant but the ability to make a profit may thus, correspondingly, be reduced. Will you ensure, Minister, that your review looks at this issue so that we can ensure that we maximise the benefits that these companies are bringing and minimise any possible problems?

Yn y cyd-destun hwnnw, gobeithiaf y bydd yr adolygiad yn gallu edrych ar rôl y practisau preifat mawr sy’n cyflogi deintyddion. Nid oes amheuaeth nad yw rhai ohonynt wedi cael effaith gadarnhaol. Unwaith eto, mae gennyf dystiolaeth anecdotaidd sy’n awgrymu bod rhai problemau wedi bod gyda’r cwmnïau hyn o ran rhoi ymrwymiadau hirdymor, yn arbennig i rai o’n cymunedau tlotach lle y gall yr anghenion o ran iechyd y geg fod yn sylweddol ond bod y gallu i wneud elw, o ganlyniad, yn lleihau. A sicrhewch, Weinidog, fod eich adolygiad yn edrych ar y mater hwn er mwyn inni allu sicrhau ein bod yn gwneud y gorau o’r manteision a gynigir gan y cwmnïau hyn ac yn lleihau unrhyw broblemau posibl i’r eithaf?

In that context, and perhaps through the work that you have mentioned in relation to community dentistry, will you further explore the direct employment of salaried dentists by the public sector, perhaps directly by the local health boards?

I fully support the oral health action plan, but I have a concern. I am sure that you will acknowledge, Minister, that a move to preventative work was supposed to be facilitated by the current contract. We are told by dental practitioners that, if anything, undertaking preventative work has become more difficult. Therefore, in developing the oral health action plan, will you ensure that this work goes hand in hand with the review, and will you undertake to ensure that any issues that the oral health action plan throws up as necessary actions, which the current contract is not facilitating, are addressed?

Cefnogaf y cynllun gweithredu ar iechyd y geg yn llwyr, ond mae gennyf bryder. Yr wyf yn siŵr y cydnabyddwch, Weinidog, fod y contract presennol i fod i hwyluso gwaith ataliol. Dywed ymarferwyr deintyddol wrthym fod ymgymryd â gwaith ataliol, os rhywbeth, wedi mynd yn anos. Felly, o ran datblygu’r cynllun gweithredu ar iechyd y geg, a sicrhewch y bydd y gwaith hwn yn mynd law yn llaw â’r adolygiad, ac a wnewch addo sicrhau y rhoir sylw i unrhyw faterion y bydd y cynllun gweithredu ar iechyd y geg yn eu hamlygu fel camau angenrheidiol, nad yw’r contract presennol yn eu hwyluso?

Finally, I support the target on eradicating child poverty with regard to oral health. However, while this is a realistic target, some people see it as somewhat unambitious. Will you keep that target under review with a view to revising it upwards if that appears to be possible as time goes on?

3.40 p.m.

Edwina Hart: I agree that it is a realistic target, but I am more than happy to look at the target when the reports become available from Professor Wayne Richards, and it might be possible to review it when I look at my oral health strategy, to ensure that the necessary resources are in place to meet a slightly more ambitious target. As we develop our oral health plan, if there are issues that have an impact on the contract, they will be taken together. I want to look at these issues as a whole; dentistry must be looked at as a whole, even though we are doing work in different phases. I would be happy to take on board that point. I thank you for your comments about sharing information; other Members probably have information that they would like to feed into this review, and I would be happy to do that.

Edwina Hart: Cytunaf ei fod yn darged realistig, ond yr wyf yn fwy na pharod i edrych ar y targed pan fydd adroddiadau’r Athro Wayne Richards ar gael, ac efallai y bydd yn bosibl ei adolygu pan edrychaf ar fy strategaeth ar iechyd y geg, i sicrhau bod yr adnoddau angenrheidiol ar gael i gyrraedd targed ychydig mwy uchelgeisiol. Wrth inni ddatblygu ein cynllun iechyd y geg, os oes materion a fydd yn effeithio ar y contract, cânt eu hystyried gyda’i gilydd. Yr wyf am edrych ar y materion hyn yn gyffredinol; rhaid edrych ar ddeintyddiaeth yn gyffredinol, er ein bod yn gwneud gwaith mewn camau gwahanol. Byddwn yn barod i dderbyn y pwynt hwnnw. Diolch ichi am eich sylwadau ynghylch rhannu gwybodaeth; mae’n siŵr bod gan Aelodau eraill wybodaeth yr hoffent ei chyfrannu at yr adolygiad hwn, a byddwn yn fodlon gwneud hynny.

You are right that private practices have made a difference with regard to the number of patients and so on, but the issues that you raised are relevant for further discussion. One thing that I am particularly keen on is directly employed community salaried dentists, rather like we have salaried GPs, to see if that can make a real difference to oral health issues in our communities. I am happy to take on board your points, and particularly what you said about referrals. Another point that is related to referrals concerns orthodontists and patterns of working; that will also have to be part of the discussion.

Yr ydych yn gywir wrth ddweud bod practisau preifat wedi gwneud gwahaniaeth o ran nifer y cleifion ac yn y blaen, ond mae’r materion a godasoch yn berthnasol ar gyfer trafodaeth bellach. Un peth yr wyf yn awyddus iawn i’w wneud yw cyflogi deintyddion cymunedol yn uniongyrchol, yn yr un modd â meddygon teulu cyflogedig, er mwyn gweld a all hynny wneud gwahaniaeth gwirioneddol i faterion yn ymwneud ag iechyd y geg yn ein cymunedau. Yr wyf yn fodlon derbyn eich pwyntiau, ac yn enwedig yr hyn a ddywedasoch am atgyfeirio. Mae pwynt arall ynghylch atgyfeirio yn ymwneud ag orthodontyddion a phatrymau gwaith; bydd yn rhaid i hynny hefyd fod yn rhan o’r drafodaeth.

Jonathan spoke about information from LHBs and what is going on with them. I will attempt to prepare an information paper on some of these issues, which I will make available to Members. I think that that will be quite interesting. I wish to make it clear that if the party health spokespeople wish to meet Professor Wayne Richards, who is undertaking the review, to bring forward their concerns, I would be happy to facilitate that meeting. It might be helpful for him to understand the level of correspondence we have had on some of these issues.

Jenny Randerson: Thank you, Minister, for your statement. I welcome your review very strongly. I regret that we have effectively wasted a year, given that we could have used the new contract to make significant progress on the issues that you have obviously been concerned about. Without being flippant, I look forward to your weekly announcement of a review. You are making significant progress on a number of issues that we have all been very worried about for some time. I have gone on about preventive issues and dentistry for years, and some people here may recall that, at the time when the current contract was being discussed by committee, I tabled an amendment that called for the unit of dental activity to be amended to include a reward to dentists for undertaking preventative activity. I regret that that was not accepted, and I would hope that you might put that on the agenda again.

Jenny Randerson: Diolch ichi, Weinidog, am eich datganiad. Croesawaf eich adolygiad yn fawr iawn. Gresynaf ein bod wedi gwastraffu blwyddyn fwy neu lai, o gofio y gallem fod wedi defnyddio’r contract newydd i wneud cynnydd sylweddol ar y materion yr ydych yn amlwg wedi bod yn pryderu amdanynt. Heb fod yn wamal, edrychaf ymlaen at eich cyhoeddiad wythnosol am adolygiad. Yr ydych yn gwneud cynnydd sylweddol ar nifer o faterion yr ydym oll wedi bod yn bryderus iawn yn eu cylch ers peth amser. Yr wyf wedi rhygnu ymlaen am faterion a deintyddiaeth ataliol ers blynyddoedd, a bydd rhai pobl yma’n cofio imi gyflwyno gwelliant yn galw am ddiwygio’r uned gweithgaredd deintyddol i gynnwys gwobr i ddeintyddion am ymgymryd â gwaith ataliol pan oedd y contract presennol yn cael ei drafod gan y pwyllgor. Gresynaf na dderbyniwyd hynny, a byddwn yn gobeithio y byddech yn rhoi hynny ar yr agenda unwaith eto.

I would be interested in your comment on what you see as the scope for our having a significantly different approach to the dental contract in Wales to that taken in England. When we were putting forward our concerns at the time, we were led to believe that it was an England and Wales negotiation and that it had to be largely accepted on that basis—although the contracts in England and Wales vary slightly. I am interested in how your review will link in with the UK-wide approach to contractual issues. Are you aware of any review ongoing in England that might have an impact on this?

Byddai gennyf ddiddordeb mewn clywed eich sylwadau ynghylch y posibilrwydd y gallem gael dull pur wahanol o ymdrin â’r contract deintyddol yng Nghymru i’r un sydd yn Lloegr. Pan oeddem yn mynegi ein pryderon ar y pryd, fe’n harweiniwyd i gredu ei bod yn gyd-drafodaeth a oedd yn ymwneud â Chymru a Lloegr a bod yn rhaid ei derbyn ar y sail honno i raddau helaeth—er bod y contractau yng Nghymru a Lloegr ychydig yn wahanol. Mae gennyf ddiddordeb yn y ffordd y bydd eich adolygiad yn cysylltu â’r dull o ymdrin â materion contractiol drwy’r DU gyfan. A ydych yn ymwybodol o adolygiad sy’n cael ei gynnal yn Lloegr a allai effeithio ar hyn?

Yr wyf yn falch o weld datblygu cynllun gweithredu cenedlaethol ar iechyd y geg ar gyfer Cymru. Yr wyf yn sicr y byddwch wedi edrych ar hyn, ond, os nad ydych wedi gwneud hynny eto, efallai yr edrychwch ar y ffordd y maent wedi bod yn delio â’r mater hwn yn yr Alban, lle y maent hwythau hefyd wedi wynebu lefelau uchel iawn o bydredd dannedd ymysg plant. Gellir atal pydredd dannedd ymysg plant yn gyfan gwbl; mae mor hawdd a rhad ei atal. Yr wythnos diwethaf, cofiaf Weinidog yn chwerthin oherwydd i’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol gynnig y syniad o roi brwsys dannedd a phast dannedd am ddim i bob plentyn yng Nghymru yn eu maniffesto.

I regret that—not that I am worried about anyone laughing at us, because I think that we have to take that all in good part here—because the Labour/Liberal Democrat coalition in Scotland introduced that measure and found it to be helpful. Research conducted over the past few years has shown that a high percentage of five-year-old children going to school in one of the most deprived communities in Wales, namely Merthyr Tydfil—though I am sure that it would apply to any deprived community in Wales—had never brushed their teeth. It is not surprising that they have caries by the time they have reached that age. A free toothbrush and free toothpaste could easily be used to help them to get into good oral-hygiene habits. It could even be provided with the financial assistance of a company that produces toothpaste.

Mae hynny’n drueni—nid fy mod yn poeni am neb yn chwerthin am ein pennau, oherwydd credaf fod yn rhaid inni dderbyn hynny yma—oherwydd cyflwynwyd y Mesur hwnnw yn yr Alban gan y glymblaid rhwng Llafur a’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol a chawsant ei fod yn ddefnyddiol. Mae ymchwil a wnaethpwyd yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf wedi dangos nad yw canran uchel o blant pump oed sy’n mynd i’r ysgol yn un o’r cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru, sef Merthyr Tudful—er fy mod yn sicr y byddai’n wir am unrhyw gymuned ddifreintiedig yng Nghymru—erioed wedi brwsio eu dannedd. Nid yw’n syndod eu bod yn pydru erbyn iddynt gyrraedd yr oed hwnnw. Gellid yn hawdd roi brws a phast dannedd am ddim iddynt i’w hannog i fabwysiadu arferion da o ran hylendid y geg. Gellid hyd yn oed eu darparu gyda chymorth ariannol gan gwmni sy’n cynhyrchu past dannedd.

On the strengthened role for public dentistry, shifting the emphasis to preventative care, I agree wholeheartedly with Helen Mary Jones. I think that the target for 2020 is exceptionally modest and one that could easily be achieved by determined action by the Welsh Assembly Government. The same is true of so many of our targets. For example, with our cancer targets, you could say that many of the people who will develop cancer in 2020 are already living the lifestyle that causes it. In the case of dental health, the children who will be in the five to 12-year-old age group in 2020 have not yet been born so, if we do this right from next year, we will be able to stop that situation developing. The action that you should be going for is actually simple and cheap in relation to the whole budget.

Ynghylch y rôl gryfach i ddeintyddiaeth gyhoeddus, a newid y pwyslais i fod ar ofal ataliol, cytunaf yn llwyr â Helen Mary Jones. Credaf fod y targed ar gyfer 2020 yn un eithriadol resymol ac yn un y gellid ei gyflawni’n hawdd petai Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn mynd ati’n benderfynol. Mae’r un peth yn wir am gynifer o’n targedau. Er enghraifft, gyda’n targedau canser, gallech ddweud bod gan lawer o’r bobl a fydd yn cael canser yn 2020 eisoes ffordd o fyw sy’n ei achosi. Gydag iechyd deintyddol, nid yw’r plant a fydd rhwng pump a 12 oed yn 2020 wedi cael eu geni eto, felly, os gwnawn hyn yn iawn o’r flwyddyn nesaf ymlaen, byddwn yn gallu atal y sefyllfa honno rhag datblygu. Mae’r camau y dylech fod yn eu hystyried, mewn gwirionedd, yn eithaf syml a rhad o’u cymharu â’r gyllideb gyfan.

Briefly, could you comment on the situation, as you see it, of the clawback by LHBs of unspent money at the end of the year in relation to units of dental activity that were commissioned but not carried out? Could you give us a view of the overall picture?

Yn fyr, a allech gyflwyno sylwadau ar y sefyllfa, yn eich barn chi, o ran bod y BILlau yn adfachu arian nas gwariwyd ar ddiwedd y flwyddyn ar yr unedau gweithgaredd deintyddol a gomisiynwyd ond nas cyflawnwyd? A allech roi syniad inni o’r darlun yn gyffredinol?

Your statement does not address the important issue of dental checks in schools. You will be aware of your legal obligation under the National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006 relating to the medical inspection of schoolchildren, and that local education authorities have a duty in relation to dental inspection under the Education Act 1996. Screening is a vital part of the prevention programme, yet the numbers of schoolchildren screened in Wales have fallen from 170,000 in 1993 to 20,000 this year. I gather that at least part of the problem relates to positive consent. I believe that there is a pilot project being carried out by the Welsh Assembly Government in Merthyr Tydfil on how to get that positive consent. I must say, Minister, if we cannot get positive consent to dental screening, how will we ever get positive consent to something like the cervical cancer immunisation programme? It appears to be a simple issue on the face of it, but I assume that it is a thorny issue, and it is one that we must tackle and investigate rapidly. I would be pleased to hear your comments on how you will increase the numbers back to the levels seen in 1993 when, as you and I would both probably agree, not everything in our health service was perfect but it was clearly far better than it is now.

Nid yw eich datganiad yn rhoi sylw i fater pwysig archwiliadau deintyddol mewn ysgolion. Gwyddoch am eich rhwymedigaeth gyfreithiol o dan Ddeddf Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol (Cymru) 2006 i roi archwiliadau meddygol i blant ysgol, a bod gan yr awdurdodau addysg lleol ddyletswydd i wneud archwiliadau deintyddol o dan Ddeddf Addysg 1996. Mae sgrinio’n rhan hanfodol o’r rhaglen atal, eto mae nifer y plant ysgol a sgriniwyd yng Nghymru wedi gostwng o 170,000 yn 1993 i 20,000 eleni. Yr wyf yn deall bod rhan o’r broblem o leiaf yn ymwneud â chaniatâd cadarnhaol. Credaf fod prosiect peilot yn cael ei gynnal gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad ym Merthyr Tudful ynghylch sut y mae cael y caniatâd cadarnhaol hwnnw. Rhaid imi ddweud, Weinidog, os na allwn gael caniatâd cadarnhaol ar gyfer sgrinio deintyddol, sut y gallwn byth gael caniatâd cadarnhaol i rywbeth fel y rhaglen imwneiddio canser ceg y groth? Ar yr olwg gyntaf, mae’n ymddangos yn fater syml, ond cymeraf ei fod yn fater go ddyrys, ac yn un y mae’n rhaid inni fynd i’r afael ag ef ac ymchwilio iddo’n ddiymdroi. Hoffwn glywed sut y bwriadwch gynyddu’r nifer i gael hynny’n ôl i’r lefelau yn 1993 pan nad oedd popeth yn ein gwasanaeth iechyd yn berffaith, fel y byddem ein dau’n cytuno mae’n debyg, ond mae’n amlwg ei fod yn llawer gwell nag y mae heddiw.

Edwina Hart: Thank you for your positive contribution on the issues raised in my statement. Like you, I believe that children should be screened when they come to school. That should be done and so we need to tackle these issues. That will be the subject of further discussion, as I am determined that it should be a natural part of your childhood to have your dental health checked, to ensure that these issues are tackled.

3.50 p.m.

Sail y ffaith fy mod yn edrych ar y materion hyn, i geisio symud pethau yn eu blaenau, yn enwedig gyda chontractau, yw fy mod am geisio cael consensws ymhlith clinigwyr deintyddol ar y ffordd orau ymlaen yng Nghymru. Os gallaf gael consensws y proffesiwn a’r gwasanaeth iechyd yn gyffredinol, yna byddaf yn gallu rhoi sylw i rai o’r problemau o ran y contract. Yr wyf am ddechrau ar y sail ein bod i gyd yn gytûn ar hyn fel y gallwn wneud cynnydd, oherwydd nid oes dim gwahaniaeth rhwng gwleidydd a deintydd o ran ein bod am wneud cynnydd ym maes iechyd y geg. Y cwestiwn yw sut y mae gwneud hynny a sut y mae datrys y sefyllfa’n ymwneud â’r contract.

You are right about UDAs. We will have to look at these issues. I do not have all the details and figures on the clawback by LHBs, but I will get the necessary figures in due course and will report back.

Yr ydych yn iawn am unedau gweithgaredd deintyddol. Bydd yn rhaid inni edrych ar y pethau hyn. Nid yw’r holl fanylion a ffigurau gennyf ynghylch yr adfachu gan y byrddau iechyd lleol, ond dof yn ôl atoch gyda’r ffigurau angenrheidiol maes o law.

You made a point about providing free toothbrushes and toothpaste. I happen to believe that there are issues around this, as some children do not know what toothbrushes and toothpastes are, given that they have never been purchased for them. If they were purchased, who would teach the children to use them, if there was no history of brushing your teeth in the family? There are a lot of issues around this, which I hope will be explored as part of these discussions.

You referred to Scotland and to some of the dental health issues there, and it is important that we recognise that it has had a lot of problems with oral health, and has tried to look for innovative solutions. I certainly take an interest in what goes on outside our borders to help with further innovation in Wales. I have tried to set up two pieces of complementary work that will feed off each other: issues will come through from the oral health and dental reviews, and they may suggest that we do something with dentistry contracts or that we work differently. When the two pieces of work come together, I will have a much clearer picture of how to take issues forward. I am not aware of any specific English reviews, but I will check with officials whether anything is going on in relation to dentistry contracts on an England-and-Wales basis and come back to Members.

Cyfeiriasoch at yr Alban ac at rai o’r problemau iechyd deintyddol yno, ac mae’n bwysig inni gydnabod eu bod wedi cael llawer o broblemau gydag iechyd y geg, ac wedi ceisio chwilio am atebion arloesol. Mae gennyf ddiddordeb yn sicr yn yr hyn sy’n digwydd y tu allan i’n ffiniau i’n helpu i arloesi ymhellach yng Nghymru. Yr wyf wedi ceisio sefydlu dau ddarn o waith ategol a fydd yn bwydo i’w gilydd: bydd materion yn codi o’r adolygiad deintyddol a’r adolygiad ar iechyd y geg, ac efallai mai awgrymu a wnânt ein bod yn gwneud rhywbeth gyda chontractau deintyddol neu ein bod yn gweithio’n wahanol. Pan gyfunir y ddau gwaith, bydd gennyf ddarlun llawer cliriach o sut y mae symud pethau ymlaen. Ni wn am adolygiadau penodol yn Lloegr, ond cadarnhaf gyda swyddogion i weld a oes unrhyw beth yn digwydd o ran contractau deintyddol ar lefel Cymru a Lloegr ac adrodd yn ôl i’r Aelodau.

The important thing about both of these reviews is that we are taking some of the issues that are raised with us all the time head on. We are looking at oral and dental health, but, importantly, I am also trying to get a consensus from the profession to take these matters forward. There is no point in taking something forward unless you have the support of the profession for doing so. We can take this approach.

Like the Presiding Officer, when I am about to say the word 'review’, I stop and try to think of another word. I will have to use my imagination to come up with some different words over the Christmas recess, as there will probably be further announcements of things called 'reviews’ in the future. It is important that I take a fresh look at some of these issues that concern the public and Assembly Members.

Irene James: Minister, I welcome your statement and most of the things that have been said today. However, a recent survey has found that one in five new dentistry graduates plan to shun NHS work altogether, and just 3 per cent stated that they wanted to work solely for the NHS. Do you agree that we must look into recruitment issues to ensure that new dentists are brought into the NHS system? Without new dentists, we cannot expect to retain service levels as current dentists retire or leave the profession altogether.

Irene James: Weinidog, yr wyf yn croesawu eich datganiad a’r rhan fwyaf o’r hyn sydd wedi’i ddweud heddiw. Fodd bynnag, yn ôl arolwg diweddar, mae un o bob pump o raddedigion deintyddol yn bwriadu troi eu cefnau ar waith y GIG yn llwyr, a dim ond 3 y cant a ddywedodd fod arnynt eisiau gweithio i’r GIG yn unig. A ydych yn cytuno bod yn rhaid inni edrych ar broblemau recriwtio i sicrhau bod deintyddion newydd yn gweithio i’r GIG? Heb ddeintyddion newydd, ni allwn ddisgwyl cadw ein lefelau gwasanaeth wrth i’r deintyddion presennol ymddeol neu adael y proffesiwn yn gyfan gwbl.

Edwina Hart: Yes, Irene. If the issue is that we cannot recruit to the NHS, we must tackle it and look at why we are not recruiting and at why private practice is so much more attractive. These are big issues for us, and I would be happy to look at them in the context of both the reviews that I am undertaking. I am also looking at workforce-planning issues across the NHS, not only in relation to dentists, but also to doctors, nurses and so on, so that we can develop our plans. That will certainly form part of my further work as Minister.

Edwina Hart: Ydwyf, Irene. Os mai problem o fethu â recriwtio i’r GIG ydyw, rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â hi a gweld pam nad ydym yn recriwtio a pham mae practisau preifat gymaint yn fwy deniadol. Mae’r pethau hyn yn broblem fawr inni, a byddwn yn fodlon iawn edrych arnynt yng nghyd-destun y ddau adolygiad yr wyf yn eu cynnal. Yr wyf yn edrych hefyd ar faterion cynllunio’r gweithlu ar draws y GIG, nid yn unig yng nghyswllt deintyddion, ond meddygon a nyrsys ac yn y blaen hefyd, fel y gallwn ddatblygu ein cynlluniau. Bydd hynny’n sicr yn rhan o’m gwaith pellach fel Gweinidog.

Y Llywydd: Fel y datganodd Arweinydd y Tŷ, mae eitem 4 wedi ei gohirio.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 yn enw William Graham.

The Minister for Social Justice and Local Government (Brian Gibbons): I propose that

Y Gweinidog dros Gyfiawnder Cymdeithasol a Llywodraeth Leol (Brian Gibbons): Cynigiaf fod

the National Assembly for Wales:

1. welcomes 'The third dimension: A Strategic Action Plan for the Voluntary Sector Scheme’;

1. yn croesawu 'Y trydydd dimensiwn: Cynllun Gweithredu Strategol ar gyfer Cynllun y Sector Gwirfoddol’;

2. recognises the Minister’s intention to work with the voluntary sector in implementing the strategic action plan;

2. yn cydnabod bwriad y Gweinidog i weithio gyda’r Sector Gwirfoddol wrth gyflawni’r Cynllun Gweithredu Strategol;

3. notes the action taken to implement the voluntary sector scheme in the period up to 31 March 2007 and agrees to publish the annual report. (NDM3710)

3. yn nodi’r camau a gymerwyd i gyflawni Cynllun y Sector Gwirfoddol yn y cyfnod hyd at 31 Mawrth 2007 ac yn cytuno i gyhoeddi’r Adroddiad Blynyddol. (NDM3710)

I urge support for the motion in the name of Carwyn Jones, and recommend rejection of the amendment in the name of William Graham.

The voluntary sector scheme was established in July 2000, and places the voluntary sector on an equal footing with local government and the business sector in Wales as formal partners of the Welsh Assembly Government and the National Assembly. Through the scheme, we have established the Voluntary Sector Partnership Council and the code of practice for the funding of the voluntary sector. Ministers have formed strong relationships with the key voluntary organisations working within their portfolios through the twice-yearly ministerial meetings.

The scheme requires the Assembly Government, in consultation with the sector, to develop and maintain a separate action plan by which performance against the scheme can be monitored. In March 2004, the independent commission reviewed the scheme and recommended that the Assembly Government develop and publish a new strategic plan. We have spent the past 18 months working closely with the sector to prepare that action plan. Last January, a draft action plan was put out to public consultation, which ended in April 2007. It generated great interest from the sector and other stakeholders, who took the opportunity to put forward their views on a range of issues, many of which have been taken on board.

Mae’r cynllun yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad, mewn ymgynghoriad â’r sector, ddatblygu a chynnal cynllun gweithredu ar wahân fel y gellir monitro perfformiad y cynllun. Ym Mawrth 2004, adolygwyd y cynllun gan y comisiwn annibynnol gan argymell bod Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn datblygu ac yn cyhoeddi cynllun strategol newydd. Yr ydym wedi treulio’r 18 mis diwethaf yn gweithio’n agos â’r sector yn paratoi’r cynllun gweithredu hwnnw. Rhwng mis Ionawr ac Ebrill eleni, buom yn ymgynghori â’r cyhoedd ar gynllun gweithredu drafft. Creodd ddiddordeb mawr yn y sector ac ymhlith rhanddeiliaid eraill, a achubodd y cyfle i gyflwyno’u sylwadau ar ystod o faterion, ac mae llawer o’r rheini wedi cael eu derbyn.

Following the consultation, the plan has been substantially revised. The revisions reflect the changing and maturing relationship that exists between the Assembly Government and the voluntary, or third, sector. The adoption of the term 'third sector’ is recognition of this change, and reflects a relationship in which the sector is moving to engage in a more businesslike and professional way with the Assembly Government. This will lead to better alignment with the national and local strategic priorities of third sector organisations and statutory public bodies such as the NHS and local government. The move towards a more citizen-focused service will mean that the third sector will have a more important role to play in bringing the citizen’s and the service user’s voice to bear in policy formation. Equally, in service delivery, the third sector will have particular advantages in delivering services that have a clear citizen focus, particularly for those groups that have, unfortunately, been more marginalised by society.

The challenge for the sector is not to engage in a head-to-head turf war with other established statutory, or even private sector, organisations, but to engage in those areas where it can deliver services with real and added value for the service user. In saying that, we need to acknowledge that this is not a challenge just for the public and third sector; the private sector also has a significant role to play through sponsoring the work of the sector, for example, by promoting employee volunteering, secondments between sectors, or even payroll-giving schemes. These arrangements will be mutually beneficial to both sectors. I saw clear examples of that when I visited Llanelli recently and saw both the community and private sector benefiting positively.

Yr her i’r sector yw peidio â brwydro’n chwyrn â chyrff sefydledig eraill yn y sector statudol, neu breifat hyd yn oed, am faes arbennig, ond chwarae rhan yn y meysydd hynny lle y mae’n gallu ychwanegu gwerth gwirioneddol i’r defnyddiwr gwasanaeth wrth ddarparu gwasanaethau. Wedi dweud hynny, mae angen inni gydnabod mai nid her i’r sector cyhoeddus a’r trydydd sector yn unig yw hyn; mae gan y sector preifat hefyd rôl bwysig i’w chwarae drwy noddi gwaith y sector, er enghraifft drwy hybu gwirfoddoli ymysg gweithwyr, secondiadau rhwng sectorau, neu gynlluniau rhoi drwy’r gyflogres hyd yn oed. Bydd y trefniadau hyn yr un mor fanteisiol i’r ddau sector. Gwelais enghreifftiau clir o hynny pan fûm yn Llanelli’n ddiweddar a gweld bod y sectorau cymunedol a phreifat ar eu hennill.

The independent review highlighted the key areas in which action is needed. To achieve that, we need to engage in a number of crucial areas. We need to value voluntary action, which is at the core of voluntary or third sector activity, engaging well over 30,000 organisations all across Wales. We need to use the voluntary sector to strengthen our communities, to greater facilitate the citizen’s voice, to accelerate social enterprise, to ensure that public services are more personalised, to strengthen public and third sector engagement with public and statutory bodies, to improve the quality of third sector support services, and to enable raised performance and growth across the sector.

Tynnodd yr adolygiad annibynnol sylw at y meysydd allweddol y mae angen gweithredu ynddynt. I wneud hynny, mae angen inni ymgymryd â nifer o feysydd tyngedfennol. Mae angen inni werthfawrogi gwaith gwirfoddol, sydd wrth wraidd gweithgareddau’r trydydd sector neu’r sector gwirfoddol, ac sy’n cynnwys ymhell dros 30,000 o fudiadau ledled Cymru. Mae angen inni ddefnyddio’r sector gwirfoddol i gryfhau ein cymunedau, hwyluso mwy ar lais y dinesydd, sbarduno menter gyhoeddus, sicrhau bod gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn fwy personol, cryfhau cyswllt y sector cyhoeddus a’r trydydd sector â chyrff cyhoeddus a statudol, gwella ansawdd gwasanaethau cymorth y trydydd sector, a galluogi twf a pherfformiad gwell ar draws y sector.

The plan also outlines the Assembly Government’s commitment to providing more integrated support to the sector, and to champion its interests at the highest level and across government. On that last point, the plan specifically calls on each Government department to work with the third sector to clarify the actions that it will take in response to the strategic action plan to further its remit, and to challenge local authorities, Assembly Government-sponsored bodies and other public agencies to take similar action to enhance this aspect of the third sector’s role. They must also specifically identify departmental actions that will enhance the contribution of volunteers, strengthen the contribution made through community development approaches, give stronger voice to citizens’ interests and concerns, promote social enterprise, and promote and support greater third sector involvement in the design, commissioning, delivery and evaluation of quality public services.

Mae’r cynllun hefyd yn amlinellu ymrwymiad Llywodraeth y Cynulliad i roi cymorth mwy integredig i’r sector, ac i hyrwyddo’i fuddiannau ar y lefel uchaf ac ar draws llywodraeth. O ran y pwynt diwethaf, mae’r cynllun yn galw’n benodol ar bob adran o’r Llywodraeth i weithio â’r trydydd sector i egluro pa gamau y bydd yn eu cymryd i ymateb i’r cynllun strategol i weithredu ei gylch gwaith, ac i herio awdurdodau lleol, cyrff a noddir gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad ac asiantaethau cyhoeddus eraill i weithredu’n gyffelyb i wella’r agwedd hon ar rôl y trydydd sector. Yn ogystal rhaid iddynt nodi’n benodol pa gamau adrannol fydd yn gwella cyfraniad gwirfoddolwyr, yn cryfhau’r cyfraniad a wneir drwy ddulliau datblygu cymunedol, yn rhoi llais cryfach i fuddiannau a phryderon dinasyddion, yn hybu menter gymdeithasol, ac yn hyrwyddo a chefnogi mwy o ran i’r trydydd sector wrth lunio, comisiynu, darparu a gwerthuso gwasanaethau cyhoeddus o ansawdd.

In this third Assembly, the sector will continue to be a key partner in the delivery of Assembly Government policies, in mobilising voluntary effort, informing policy and design, and delivery. Our new action plan calls on the sector to engage in a way that is in tune with our 'One Wales’ agenda.

Yn y trydydd Cynulliad hwn, bydd y sector yn parhau’n bartner allweddol o ran cyflawni polisïau Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, wrth roi ymdrechion gwirfoddol ar waith, llywio polisïau a chynlluniau, a chyflawni. Mae ein cynllun gweithredu newydd yn galw ar y sector i ymgysylltu mewn modd sy’n cyd-fynd â’n hagenda yn 'Cymru’n Un’.

4.00 p.m.

Turning to the annual report for 2006-07, it describes the achievements of the last year, with a particular focus on examples of how the whole Assembly Government is working in partnership with the sector. It demonstrates once again the enormous contribution that the voluntary and community sector makes to the social and economic wellbeing of Wales. Social solidarity is one of the defining characteristics of Wales, and it is a key part of our history and our national values. This social solidarity is built on the principles of community service, whereby we realise that, for most of us, the quality and richness of our lives comes from doing things in common for the common good. Much of what we do in Wales is built on this principle, through our trade union movement, for example, in improving people’s pay and work conditions, through campaigns for better communities and a better wider world, through the mutualism of the co-operative and credit union movement, and in community regeneration programmes such as Communities First. It is seen through self-improvement, in such areas as adult and continuing lifelong learning through voluntary organisations such as the Workers’ Educational Association, and through the voluntary effort that underpins our cultural lives in eisteddfodau and the Urdd, as well as the thousands of sports and leisure organisations that would collapse overnight were the spirit of volunteering not alive in our country.

A throi at adroddiad blynyddol 2006-07, mae’n disgrifio’r hyn a gyflawnwyd y llynedd, gan ganolbwyntio’n arbennig ar enghreifftiau o sut y mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i gyd yn gweithio mewn partneriaeth â’r sector. Mae’n dangos unwaith yn rhagor gyfraniad enfawr y sector gwirfoddol a chymunedol at les cymdeithasol ac economaidd Cymru. Mae cydgefnogaeth gymdeithasol yn un o nodweddion diffiniol Cymru, ac mae’n rhan allweddol o’n hanes a’n gwerthoedd cenedlaethol. Mae’r gydgefnogaeth gymdeithasol hon wedi ei seilio ar egwyddorion gwasanaeth cymunedol, sy’n peri inni sylweddoli, o ran y rhan fwyaf ohonom, fod ansawdd a chyfoeth ein bywydau yn deillio o wneud pethau ar y cyd er lles pawb. Mae llawer o’r pethau a wnawn yng Nghymru wedi ei seilio ar yr egwyddor hon, drwy’r undebau llafur, er enghraifft, wrth wella cyflogau ac amodau gwaith pobl, drwy ymgyrchoedd dros gymunedau gwell a byd gwell drwyddi draw, drwy gydymddibyniaeth y cwmni cydweithredol a mudiad yr undebau credyd, ac mewn rhaglenni adfywio cymunedol megis Cymunedau yn Gyntaf. Mae i’w weld drwy hunanwellhad, mewn meysydd megis addysg oedolion a dysgu gydol oes drwy fudiadau gwirfoddol megis Cymdeithas Addysg y Gweithwyr, a thrwy’r ymdrechion gwirfoddol sy’n sail i’n bywydau diwylliannol mewn eisteddfodau a’r Urdd, ynghyd â’r miloedd o fudiadau chwaraeon a hamdden a fyddai’n diflannu dros nos pe na bai ysbryd gwirfoddoli’n fyw ac yn iach yn ein gwlad.

This is what the action plan is trying to capture and move forward in a sustainable and progressive way. It is also why it is so important, as the action plan proposes, to spread this message in new and more effective ways through the proposed media campaign and to positively support the good work of the third sector. By working together and by continuing to nurture and develop productive partnerships in the third sector and beyond, we can all help to make a real difference to the lives of people living in our country. This, inevitably, will bring new challenges and opportunities, not for the reason offered in amendment 1 in the name of William Graham, but because of the commitment, expertise and value that the third sector offers. It is true that we face a tougher settlement than we have had for a number of years, and, in these circumstances, it is incumbent on all statutory and public sector bodies to adhere to the principles enshrined in their local compacts and funding arrangements, with any change in terms of service expansion or contraction done on a negotiated basis.

Dyma y mae’r cynllun gweithredu’n ceisio ei ddal a’i symud yn ei flaen mewn modd cynaliadwy a blaengar. Dyna hefyd pam mae mor bwysig, fel y cynigir yn y cynllun gweithredu, lledaenu’r neges hon mewn ffyrdd newydd a mwy effeithiol drwy’r ymgyrch arfaethedig yn y cyfryngau a chefnogi gwaith da’r trydydd sector mewn modd cadarnhaol. Drwy weithio ar y cyd a thrwy ddal ati i feithrin a datblygu partneriaethau cynhyrchiol yn y trydydd sector a’r tu hwnt, gallwn oll helpu i wneud gwahaniaeth gwirioneddol ym mywydau pobl sy’n byw yn ein gwlad. Mae’n anochel y bydd sialensiau a chyfleoedd newydd yn sgîl hyn, nid am y rheswm a gynigir yng ngwelliant 1 yn enw William Graham, ond oherwydd yr ymroddiad, yr arbenigedd a’r gwerth y mae’r trydydd sector yn eu cynnig. Mae’n wir ein bod yn wynebu setliad anos nag a welsom ers nifer o flynyddoedd, a than yr amgylchiadau, rhaid i bob corff statudol a chyhoeddus gadw at yr egwyddorion sydd wedi eu corffori yn eu compactau a’u trefniadau ariannu lleol, gan gyflawni unrhyw newidiadau o ran ehangu neu leihau gwasanaethau ar sail cyd-drafodaethau.

In conclusion, I commend the motion to Plenary, as it provides the basis for the dynamic, innovative future development of the third sector in Wales.

I gloi, yr wyf am gymeradwyo’r cynnig gerbron y Cyfarfod Llawn, oherwydd ei fod yn sail ar gyfer datblygu’r trydydd sector yng Nghymru mewn modd egnïol, arloesol at y dyfodol.

David Melding: I propose amendment 1 in the name of William Graham. Amendment 1: add as new point at the end of the motion:

David Melding: Cynigiaf gwelliant 1 yn enw William Graham. Gwelliant 1: ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

notes with concern that the draft budget proposals 2008-09, laid in the Table Office on 5 November 2007, will increase the demand for many voluntary sector services as a result of the poor budget settlement for local authorities.

I start by commending much of what the Minister said, because this is a broad area of consensus. However, we are also seeing some sharp issues emerge, and they have to be addressed. There are points of principle and difference in this regard. I notice that the Minister started with an airy dismissal of the Conservative Party’s amendment, but, towards the end, he was much more cautious and he started to address the situation that many voluntary bodies will undoubtedly find themselves in as a result of the draft budget. There is still a culture among many public agencies and organisations of assuming that the voluntary sector can somehow be used to fill in the gaps, and are not necessarily a permanent part of delivering effective and efficient public services. However, I do not think that we can just rely on the voluntary sector to pick up the slack after what is a harsh settlement for local government from the Welsh Assembly Government.

Yr wyf am ddechrau drwy gymeradwyo llawer o’r hyn a ddywedodd y Gweinidog, oherwydd ceir consensws helaeth yn y maes hwn. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn gweld rhai materion dyrys yn codi hefyd, a rhaid rhoi sylw iddynt. Mae materion y mae egwyddor a gwahaniaeth ynglŷn â hwy yn hyn o beth. Sylwaf i’r Gweinidog ddechrau drwy ddiystyru gwelliant y Blaid Geidwadol yn ysgafala, ond, at y diwedd, yr oedd yn llawer mwy gofalus a dechreuodd roi sylw i’r sefyllfa y bydd llawer o gyrff gwirfoddol yn eu cael eu hunain ynddi yn ddiamheuol yn sgîl y gyllideb ddrafft. Mae diwylliant i’w gael o hyd ymhlith llawer o asiantaethau a chyrff cyhoeddus sy’n peri iddynt dybio bod modd defnyddio’r sector gwirfoddol i lanw’r bylchau, ac nad ydynt o angenrheidrwydd yn rhan barhaol o ddarparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus effeithiol ac effeithlon. Fodd bynnag, ni chredaf y gallwn ddibynnu ar y sector gwirfoddol i ddal y slac yn dynn yn sgîl setliad sy’n un llym iawn ar gyfer llywodraeth leol gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru.

The Government will be held to account for the consequences of its decision, because it is moving away from funding core services, many of them provided through local government, to funding its increasingly bizarre enthusiasms instead of looking at the bread-and-butter issues and ensuring that they are dealt with.

Caiff y Llywodraeth ei dal yn atebol am ganlyniadau ei phenderfyniad, oherwydd y mae’n dechrau troi ei chefn ar ariannu gwasanaethau craidd, y mae llawer ohonynt yn cael eu darparu drwy lywodraeth leol, ac yn ariannu ei diddordebau cynyddol ryfedd yn hytrach nag edrych ar y materion sylfaenol a sicrhau bod y rheini’n cael sylw.

However, the voluntary sector scheme, it should be said, is one of the major successes of the former Labour-led Welsh Assembly Government. It has been a successful development and programme. I served for eight years on the voluntary sector council before it was wound up. I thought it an excellent body, which led the way in involving the voluntary sector in the discussion of Government and wider Assembly business. Now, with a different relationship with the Government, and a different type of Assembly, we are seeing the voluntary sector scheme being developed in what the Government claims is a strategic way—and I have no doubt, at this stage, that that is the Government’s intention. However, there are a few issues that I want to examine in further detail.

Fodd bynnag, dylid dweud bod cynllun y sector gwirfoddol yn un o lwyddiannau mawr Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru a arferai gael ei harwain gan Lafur gynt. Mae wedi bod yn ddatblygiad ac yn rhaglen lwyddiannus. Bûm yn gwasanaethu ar gyngor y sector gwirfoddol am 8 mlynedd cyn ei ddiddymu. Credwn ei fod yn gorff rhagorol, a fu’n arwain y ffordd o ran cynnwys y sector gwirfoddol yn nhrafodaethau’r Llywodraeth a busnes ehangach y Cynulliad. Bellach, mae’r berthynas â’r Llywodraeth yn wahanol, ac mae’r Cynulliad ei hun yn wahanol, ac yr ydym yn gweld datblygu cynllun y sector gwirfoddol mewn modd y mae’r Llywodraeth yn honni ei fod yn strategol—ac nid oes amheuaeth gennyf, ar hyn o bryd, nad hynny yw bwriad y Llywodraeth. Fodd bynnag, mae rhai materion yr hoffwn eu harchwilio’n fwy manwl.

The desire to construct stronger communities is shared by all political parties, and we all agree that, in addition to using the voluntary sector to transform communities, the health of the voluntary sector will be a key indicator of how strong our communities are. The role of the voluntary sector is undoubtedly vital. It delivers power and choice to local people, involves the community both in decision-making and in delivering services—that is crucial—and is effective in responding to local need, where larger organisations often miss the situation on the ground. If you look at social enterprises or advocacy services, for example, the voluntary sector has absolutely led the way and developed best practice.

Mae’r awydd i feithrin cymunedau cryfach yn awydd sydd gan bob plaid, ac yr ydym oll yn gytûn, yn ogystal â defnyddio’r sector gwirfoddol i drawsffurfio cymunedau, y bydd iechyd y sector gwirfoddol yn ddangosydd allweddol o ran pa mor gryf yw ein cymunedau. Yn ddiau mae rôl y sector gwirfoddol yn hollbwysig. Mae’n darparu pŵer a dewis i bobl leol, mae’n cynnwys y gymuned o ran gwneud penderfyniadau a darparu gwasanaethau—mae hynny’n hollbwysig—ac mae’n effeithiol wrth ymateb i’r angen lleol, lle y bydd cyrff mwy’n aml yn camddeall y sefyllfa fel y mae ar lawr gwlad. Os edrychwch ar fentrau cymdeithasol neu wasanaethau eiriolaeth, er enghraifft, yn sicr y sector gwirfoddol sydd wedi arwain y ffordd a datblygu’r arferion gorau.

In achieving better public services, as the Beecham report correctly says, we need to put the citizen at the heart of public service delivery—and the citizen is often empowered by the voluntary sector. However, there is a fundamental contradiction in the Government’s approach. Many of our community needs relate to health and social care, and this Government has said that it will not have any private sector involvement in those services. Much of that work would have been done in partnership with the voluntary sector, as it has been in the past. I have asked various Welsh Assembly Government Ministers about their attitude to this, now that Plaid Cymru has forced a complete ban on the involvement of the private sector in care services. How on earth can this sort of policy and partnership now be advanced? I have not yet had anything like an adequate answer.

O ran sicrhau gwell gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, ys dywed adroddiad Beecham yn hollol gywir, mae angen inni roi’r dinesydd wrth wraidd darparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus—ac yn aml caiff y dinesydd ei rymuso gan y sector gwirfoddol. Fodd bynnag, mae gwrthddweud sylfaenol yn null y Llywodraeth o ymdrin â hyn. Mae a wnelo llawer o anghenion ein cymunedau ag iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, ac mae’r Llywodraeth hon wedi dweud nad yw am weld y sector preifat yn ymhel â’r gwasanaethau hynny. Byddai llawer o’r gwaith hwnnw wedi cael ei wneud mewn partneriaeth â’r sector gwirfoddol, fel sydd wedi digwydd yn y gorffennol. Yr wyf wedi gofyn i amryw o Weinidogion Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ynglŷn â’u hagwedd at hyn, a Phlaid Cymru bellach wedi gorfodi gwaharddiad llwyr ar y sector preifat yn y gwasanaethau gofal. Sut ar y ddaear y bydd modd bwrw ymlaen â’r math hwn o bolisi a phartneriaeth bellach? Nid wyf wedi cael ateb digonol o bellffordd hyd yma.

If possible, we also need to use the voluntary sector more directly in the delivery of public services. We need different models and choices, and the voluntary sector is often a best-choice provider. It provides more accessible services, services that people are more comfortable using, and covers many areas, from drug use to innovative care for those at home.

Os oes modd, mae angen hefyd inni ddefnyddio’r sector gwirfoddol mewn modd mwy uniongyrchol o ran darparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Mae angen modelau a dewisiadau gwahanol arnom, ac yn aml iawn y sector gwirfoddol yw’r dewis gorau fel darparwr. Mae’n darparu gwasanaethau mwy hygyrch, gwasanaethau y mae pobl yn teimlo’n fwy cyffyrddus yn eu defnyddio, ac mae’n ymwneud â llawer o feysydd, yn amrywio o ddefnyddio cyffuriau i ofal arloesol i bobl yn eu cartrefi.

Finally, on developing better policy, I think that the structure of what the Government is trying to do is broadly correct, and I agree that these are the three great arms that we need to strengthen, and make more effective. However, I disagree with some of the decisions that have been made. In the work of the new local service boards, local government and the Welsh Assembly Government have to prove that the voluntary sector will be used effectively at an early stage of policy development. The Assembly also has to develop how it works with the voluntary sector, now that the new arrangements are in place—particularly in considering the options for legislation, and developing that legislation. We should be aware of the work that the voluntary sector does as a champion of local communities, and it must be able to raise issues with us here in the Assembly.

Yn olaf, o ran datblygu polisïau gwell, credaf fod strwythur yr hyn y mae’r Llywodraeth yn ceisio’i wneud yn iawn yn fras, a chytunaf mai’r rhain yw’r tair cangen fawr y mae angen inni eu cyfnerthu, a’u gwneud yn fwy effeithiol. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn anghytuno â rhai o’r penderfyniadau sydd wedi eu gwneud. Yng ngwaith y byrddau gwasanaethau lleol newydd, rhaid i lywodraeth leol a Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru brofi y defnyddir y sector gwirfoddol yn effeithiol yn gynnar yn y gwaith o ddatblygu polisïau. Yn ogystal rhaid i’r Cynulliad ddatblygu’r modd y mae’n gweithio gyda’r sector gwirfoddol, gan fod y trefniadau newydd bellach ar waith—yn enwedig o ran ystyried yr opsiynau sydd ohoni ar gyfer deddfwriaeth, a datblygu’r ddeddfwriaeth honno. Dylem fod yn ymwybodol o’r gwaith y mae’r sector gwirfoddol yn ei wneud fel eiriolwr dros gymunedau lleol, a rhaid iddo allu codi materion gyda ni yma yn y Cynulliad.

Jeff Cuthbert: I am pleased to see this debate come before Plenary today. I have always been a strong advocate of greater partnership with the voluntary sector, because it contributes a great deal to Wales, both in the support that it gives to people and the ideas that it offers for future policy. Indeed, having worked closely with many organisations from the voluntary sector over the years on the all-party group on healthy living, I fully appreciate just how much the voluntary sector can contribute. It has been, and will, hopefully, remain, at the forefront of the Healthy Living Week events, making it the success that it has been. Tomorrow is World Diabetes Day, and I am sponsoring a reception by Diabetes UK at lunchtime in the Senedd. Diabetes UK is a key player in Healthy Living Week, and I would urge all Assembly Members to attend that reception if possible.

Jeff Cuthbert: Yr wyf yn falch o weld y ddadl hon yn dod gerbron y Cyfarfod Llawn heddiw. Yr wyf wastad wedi bod yn bleidiol i fwy o bartneriaeth gyda’r sector gwirfoddol, oherwydd y mae’n cyfrannu llawer i Gymru, o ran y gefnogaeth y mae’n ei rhoi i bobl a’r syniadau y mae’n eu cynnig ar gyfer polisïau’r dyfodol. Yn wir, o fod wedi gweithio’n agos gyda nifer o fudiadau o’r sector gwirfoddol dros y blynyddoedd ar y grŵp amlbleidiol ynghylch byw’n iach, yr wyf yn llawn werthfawrogi’r hyn y gall y sector gwirfoddol ei gyfrannu. Mae wedi bod ar flaen y gad—a gobeithio y bydd yn parhau ar flaen y gad—yn nigwyddiadau’r Wythnos Byw’n Iach, gan sicrhau ei bod yn llwyddo fel y mae wedi gwneud. Yfory yw Diwrnod Diabetes y Byd, a byddaf yn noddi derbyniad gan Diabetes UK amser cinio yn y Senedd. Mae gan Diabetes UK ran allweddol i’w chwarae yn yr Wythnos Byw’n Iach, ac yr wyf yn annog holl Aelodau’r Cynulliad i fod yn bresennol yn y derbyniad hwnnw os bydd modd.

I am not alone in my party in my stance on the voluntary sector. The Labour Party in Wales has placed the voluntary sector on an equal footing with local government and the business sector, as a formal partner of the Assembly: that is unique in the UK. There are over 1,000 voluntary organisations in the county borough of Caerphilly, covering everything from advocacy services to sport and recreation, and, indeed, lifelong learning.

Nid wyf ar fy mhen fy hun yn fy mhlaid o ran fy safbwynt ynghylch y sector gwirfoddol. Mae Plaid Lafur Cymru wedi rhoi’r sector gwirfoddol ar yr un gwastad â llywodraeth leol a’r sector busnes, yn bartner ffurfiol i’r Cynulliad: mae hynny’n unigryw yn y DU. Ceir dros 1,000 o fudiadau gwirfoddol ym mwrdeistref sirol Caerffili, ac maent yn ymwneud â phob math o feysydd, yn amrywio o wasanaethau eirioli i chwaraeon a hamdden ac, yn wir, dysgu gydol oes.

4.10 p.m.

Organisations such as the Workers’ Education Association have played a critical part in the provision of adult education services throughout the borough and, indeed, in other parts of Wales. Furthermore, when I became an Assembly Member in May 2003, although I had been an activist for many years, I was astounded at the numbers of people involved in voluntary sector activity. The voluntary sector is a huge asset to Wales, and that is not to mention its contribution to the delivery of European structural funds programmes. Schemes such as Communities First have only been able to deliver as well as they have thanks, to a large extent, to the participation of voluntary groups in Communities First partnerships.

Mae mudiadau megis Cymdeithas Addysg y Gweithwyr wedi chwarae rhan allweddol o ran darparu gwasanaethau addysg i oedolion ar draws y fwrdeistref ac yn wir, mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru. Hefyd, pan ddeuthum yn Aelod Cynulliad ym mis Mai 2003, er fy mod wedi bod yn weithredwr ers llawer o flynyddoedd, fe’m syfrdanwyd bod cynifer o bobl yn ymwneud â gwaith y sector gwirfoddol. Mae’r sector gwirfoddol yn gaffaeliad enfawr i Gymru, heb sôn am y cyfraniad y mae’n ei wneud at ddarparu rhaglenni’r cronfeydd strwythurol Ewropeaidd. Ni allasai cynlluniau megis Cymunedau yn Gyntaf lwyddo i gyflawni’r pethau y maent wedi eu cyflawni i’r fath raddau, heb gyfranogiad y grwpiau gwirfoddol ym mhartneriaethau Cymunedau yn Gyntaf.

I will briefly mention the Welsh Conservatives’ amendment to this debate and offer a different perceptive on their argument. I remind the Conservatives that we have delivered a settlement for local government that, in fact, represents a growth in real terms of more than £160 million, which is equivalent to an average of 0.5 per cent average growth. Since the Assembly came into being in 1999, central Government support for local authorities has risen by an average of 8.7 per cent per year. While I accept that there may be a more challenging settlement for local authorities this year, and, indeed, a more challenging budget all round, we are still delivering real growth and, of course, local authorities can set their own priorities. The harsh reality that the Conservatives have to accept is that if they would like to give more money to local authorities, they would have to reduce the budget in other areas. From where would they like us to take that money? Would it be from health, possibly?

Yr wyf am sôn yn fyr am welliant y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig i’r ddadl hon a chynnig golwg wahanol ar eu dadl. Yr wyf am atgoffa’r Ceidwadwyr ein bod wedi darparu setliad ar gyfer llywodraeth leol sydd, mewn gwirionedd, yn golygu twf mewn termau real o fwy na £160 miliwn, sy’n cyfateb i dwf ar gyfartaledd o 0.5 y cant o dwf. Ers sefydlu’r Cynulliad yn 1999, mae cymorth Llywodraeth ganol i’r awdurdodau lleol wedi cynyddu 8.7 y cant ar gyfartaledd bob blwyddyn. Er fy mod yn derbyn bod y setliad ar gyfer llywodraeth leol yn anos eleni efallai, ac, yn wir, fod y setliad yn gyffredinol yn anos, yr ydym yn dal i ddarparu twf gwirioneddol ac, wrth reswm, gall yr awdurdodau lleol bennu eu blaenoriaethau eu hunain. Y gwir amdani a’r hyn y mae’n rhaid i’r Ceidwadwyr ei dderbyn yw petaent am roi rhagor o arian i’r awdurdodau lleol, y byddai’n rhaid iddynt leihau’r gyllideb mewn meysydd eraill. O ble y byddent am inni fynd â’r arian hwnnw? Oddi ar iechyd, o bosibl?

Peter Black: I will start with Jeff’s last point, because it is important that we get this into perspective. Jeff has been talking about a real-terms growth in local authority budgets, when, in fact, we are talking about a 2.2 per cent increase in local authority budgets, compared to inflation of 2.6 or 2.7 per cent, which, according to anyone else’s calculations, is a real-terms cut. We have to get that right. Listening to Jeff, I am reminded that we have this debate every year, and sometimes Members may deliver similar speeches and possibly pick up the previous year’s speech by mistake. I am sure that Jeff must have done that in referring to the local government settlement. Local authorities are not facing anything like a real-terms growth in their settlement, but a real-terms cut.

Peter Black: Yr wyf am ddechrau gyda phwynt olaf Jeff, oherwydd y mae’n bwysig gweld hyn yn ei gyd-destun priodol. Mae Jeff wedi bod yn sôn am dwf mewn termau real yng nghyllidebau’r awdurdodau lleol, ond, mewn gwirionedd, sôn yr ydym am gynnydd o 2.2 y cant yng nghyllidebau’r awdurdodau lleol, o’i gymharu â chwyddiant o 2.6 neu 2.7 y cant, sydd, yn ôl dull pawb arall o gyfrifo, yn doriad mewn termau real. Rhaid deall hynny’n iawn. O wrando ar Jeff, caf fy atgoffa ein bod yn cael yr un ddadl bob blwyddyn, ac weithiau bydd Aelodau’n gwneud areithiau tebyg ac o bosibl byddant yn codi araith y llynedd drwy gamgymeriad. Yr wyf yn siŵr mai dyna a wnaeth Jeff pan gyfeiriodd at y setliad ar gyfer llywodraeth leol. Nid yw’r awdurdodau’n wynebu dim byd tebyg i dwf mewn termau real yn eu setliad, yn hytrach mae’n doriad mewn termau real.

That is also happening to the voluntary sector. This report is entitled 'The third dimension’. I am not sure what the third dimension is, I thought that it was something from Star Trek; I, and the sector itself, prefer to call it the third sector. The Government mentions how tight the budget is and, clearly, how it delivers its plans is important. If we look at the annual report, it specifically names Cymorth Cymru, for example, which is an umbrella organisation that works with supported housing groups. Its budget is to be cut by a total of £869,000 over the next three years. The report also mentions work with the Children and Family Court Advisory and Support Services Cymru, a charity that looks after the interests of children in family proceedings and family courts, and its budget is to be cut by a total of £75,000 over the next three years. The Communities and Culture Committee has taken evidence from a number of voluntary sector organisations specifically on funding issues. In our last meeting, we had evidence from the Arts Council of Wales and the Sports Council for Wales on how they are coping with their tight budgets. To the Government’s credit, it has increased the money available to those organisations, but, unfortunately, that is not enough to compensate for the losses in National Lottery funding as a result of money being put aside for the London Olympics. As a consequence of what is, effectively, a cut in the budgets of both the arts council and the sports council, important and effective schemes, particularly around capital funding, have had to be either frozen or cut, and that is of some concern. The Minister for Heritage last week announced that he had found, from underspends, £13.5 million for the Wales Millennium Centre. Although I am happy to support that initiative, because the centre is important, it would be helpful if the Government could re-examine its underspends and find £13.5 million for the arts council and for the sports council, which would be money that might be spent elsewhere in Wales. It is important that those organisations are seen to be equally valued, along with the many voluntary sector organisations around Wales that do an invaluable job, which is appreciated by those who come into contact with them.

Mae hynny’n digwydd yn y sector gwirfoddol hefyd. Teitl yr adroddiad hwn yw 'Y trydydd dimensiwn’. Nid wyf yn siŵr beth yw’r trydydd dimensiwn, credwn mai rhywbeth o Star Trek ydoedd; mae’n well gennyf fi, a chan y sector ei hun, yr enw y trydydd sector. Mae’r Llywodraeth yn dweud mor dynn yw’r gyllideb ac mae’n amlwg y bydd y modd y bydd yn cyflawni ei chynlluniau’n bwysig. Os edrychwn ar yr adroddiad blynyddol, mae’n enwi Cymorth Cymru’n benodol, er enghraifft, sy’n sefydliad ambarél sy’n gweithio gyda grwpiau tai â chymorth. Caiff £869,000 ei dorri o’i gyllideb dros y tair blynedd nesaf. Mae’r adroddiad hefyd yn crybwyll gwaith gyda Gwasanaeth Cynghori a Chynorthwyo Llys i Blant a Theuluoedd Cymru, elusen sy’n gofalu am fuddiannau plant mewn achosion teulu a llysoedd teulu, a bydd toriad o £75,000 yn ei chyllideb dros y tair blynedd nesaf. Mae’r Pwyllgor Cymunedau a Diwylliant wedi cael tystiolaeth gan nifer o fudiadau o’r sector gwirfoddol yn benodol ynghylch materion sy’n ymwneud â chyllid. Yn ein cyfarfod diwethaf, cawsom dystiolaeth gan Gyngor Celfyddydau Cymru a Chyngor Chwaraeon Cymru ynglŷn â sut y maent yn ymdopi â’u cyllidebau tynn. Chwarae teg i’r Llywodraeth, mae wedi cynyddu’r arian sydd ar gael i’r mudiadau hynny, ond, yn anffodus, nid yw’n ddigon i wneud iawn am golli arian y Loteri Genedlaethol oherwydd bod arian wedi ei neilltuo ar gyfer Gemau Olympaidd Llundain. O ganlyniad i’r hyn sydd mewn gwirionedd yn doriad yng nghyllidebau cyngor y celfyddydau a’r cyngor chwaraeon, bu’n rhaid rhewi neu dorri cynlluniau pwysig ac effeithiol, yn enwedig o ran cyllid cyfalaf, ac mae hynny’n achosi pryder. Yr wythnos diwethaf cyhoeddodd y Gweinidog dros Dreftadaeth ei fod wedi dod o hyd i £13.5 miliwn ar gyfer Canolfan Mileniwm Cymru, a hynny o danwariant. Er fy mod yn fodlon cefnogi’r fenter honno, oherwydd bod y ganolfan yn bwysig, byddai’n fuddiol pe gallai’r Llywodraeth ailedrych ar ei thanwariant a dod o hyd i £13.5 miliwn ar gyfer cyngor y celfyddydau a’r cyngor chwaraeon, a fyddai’n arian a allai gael ei wario yn rhywle arall yng Nghymru. Mae’n bwysig bod y cyrff hynny’n cael eu gweld yn bethau sydd yr un mor werthfawr, ynghyd â’r holl gyrff gwirfoddol o gwmpas Cymru sy’n gwneud gwaith amhrisiadwy, sy’n cael ei werthfawrogi gan y rhai a ddaw i gysylltiad â hwy.

We must all recognise the important job that the third sector does, especially given the statutory status with which the sector was awarded in the Government of Wales Act 2006. The sector provides more than its front-line work, and helps to inform us as politicians and to generate a wider and more general understanding of the issues that it faces among the wider population. As a result of the third sector’s work, we have policy that has been guided by the people who know best about a particular sector, and who deal with it on a day by day basis.

Rhaid i bob un ohonom gydnabod y gwaith pwysig y mae’r trydydd sector yn ei wneud, yn enwedig o gofio’r statws statudol a roddwyd i’r sector yn Neddf Llywodraeth Cymru 2006. Mae’r sector yn darparu mwy na’i waith rheng flaen, ac mae’n helpu i’n goleuo ni fel gwleidyddion ac i feithrin dealltwriaeth ehangach a mwy cyffredinol o’r materion y mae’n ymdrin â hwy ymysg y boblogaeth gyffredinol. O ganlyniad i waith y trydydd sector, mae gennym bolisi sydd wedi’i arwain gan y rhai a ŵyr orau am sector penodol, ac sy’n delio ag ef o ddydd i ddydd.

The Assembly Government has a very important policy, which I wholeheartedly support, of moving to three-year budgets for third sector organisations, and, if possible, towards five-year budgets. Much progress has been made in recent years in achieving those aims. The problem is that, once you get out into communities, that progress is not always replicated by local government support for the third sector, or in some instances, in the money that they get from other areas. Although I accept that the Assembly Government is limited in its reach and influence over a number of those organisations, we need to stress this over and again. If we are to give third sector organisations the stability that they require, we need to ensure that other organisations follow suit in providing the support over that period of time.

Mae gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad bolisi pwysig iawn, yr wyf yn ei gefnogi’n llwyr, o symud at gyllidebau tair blynedd ar gyfer cyrff y trydydd sector, ac, os oes modd, at gyllidebau pum mlynedd. Gwnaethpwyd llawer o gynnydd yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf o ran cyrraedd y nodau hynny. Y broblem yw, wedi ichi fynd allan i gymunedau, nad yw’r cynnydd hwnnw’n cael ei efelychu bob amser ar ffurf cymorth gan lywodraeth leol i’r trydydd sector neu, mewn rhai achosion, o ran yr arian a gânt o feysydd eraill. Er fy mod yn derbyn bod cyrhaeddiad Llywodraeth y Cynulliad a’i dylanwad ar nifer o’r cyrff hynny’n gyfyngedig, mae angen inni bwysleisio hyn dro ar ôl tro. Os ydym i roi i gyrff y trydydd sector y sefydlogrwydd y mae arnynt ei angen, mae angen inni sicrhau bod cyrff eraill yn gwneud yr un fath o ran darparu’r cymorth dros y cyfnod hwnnw.

Nerys Evans: Cyn dechrau, mae’n rhaid canmol gwaith y sector; mae o leiaf 30,000 o sefydliadau ac 1.5 miliwn o bobl yn gwneud gwaith gwirfoddol yn y trydydd sector yng Nghymru, sy’n cyfrannu yr un faint o oriau â 90,000 o weithwyr amser llawn. Mae’n werth rhoi hynny fel cyd-destun. Mae angen cydnabod hefyd fod y Cynulliad ar flaen y gad yn y maes hwn; cawsom ddyletswydd o dan Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998 i gydweithio â’r trydydd sector—dyletswydd a drosglwyddwyd i’r Gweinidog yn Neddf Llywodraeth Cymru 2006. Mae’r ffaith ein bod yn arwain yn y maes hwn yn destun cenfigen i lawer o sefydliadau yn Lloegr.

Yr wyf yn aelod o’r Pwyllgor Cymunedau a Diwylliant a benderfynodd gynnal adolygiad cynnar ar gyllido’r sector. Mae pwyntiau cadarnhaol a negyddol wedi ymddangos o’r adolygiad hwnnw eisoes. Yr oeddwn yn pryderu o glywed am y diffygion yn y system o ran yr anawsterau y mae sefydliadau gwirfoddol yn eu cael i gael gwybodaeth am ariannu gan y Cynulliad drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg. Mae problemau hefyd pan fo’r sefydliad gwirfoddol yn gweithio ar draws mwy nag un adran lywodraethol. Edrychaf ymlaen at weld canlyniadau’r adolygiad i geisio goresgyn y problemau hyn a gweld beth yw ymateb y Llywodraeth yn y maes hwn.

Thema gyson o’r adolygiad hyd yn hyn yw ariannu. Yr ydym yn falch o weld symudiadau tuag at gyllido tair blynedd, fel y crybwyllwyd eisoes gan Peter Black, er mwyn rhoi sylfaen fwy cadarn i’r sefydliadau hyn a rhoi sicrwydd cynllunio iddynt hefyd. Mae cwestiynau hefyd yn codi o ran systemau monitro ariannol. Os oes angen cyllido mwy diogel yn y sector gwirfoddol, bydd angen symud i fod yn fwy strategol o ran yr ariannu, ac yn hytrach nag adrodd yn ôl am weithredoedd megis sawl cyfarfod a chwrs a gynhaliwyd, bydd angen symud at adrodd ar ganlyniadau yn y maes ac ar wahaniaethau penodol a wnaed. Mae’n rhaid cofio hefyd bod sawl sefydliad yn darparu gwasanaethau hanfodol ac yn gweithredu polisïau llywodraethol, ac arnynt angen cefnogaeth briodol.

Un o’r problemau mwyaf o ran ariannu’r trydydd sector yw effaith Gemau Olympaidd Llundain, fel y cydnabu’r Gweinidog pan ddaeth i roi tystiolaeth i’r pwyllgor. Dywedodd ei fod yn bryderus iawn am yr effaith ar y sector yng Nghymru. Mae’r effaith yn annerbyniol; yr ydym ar ein colled o ran arian Barnett am adfywio rhannau o Lundain ac yr ydym hefyd yn dioddef toriadau yn yr arian ar gyfer ein sefydliadau gwirfoddol. Mae hyd yn oed Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru yn sôn am effaith y toriadau. Yr eironi yw ein bod yn clywed sôn, dro ar ôl tro, y bydd y Gemau Olympaidd yn dod â buddiannau enfawr o ran chwaraeon yng Nghymru, ond, ar y llaw arall, mae Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru yn dioddef toriad yn ei gyllideb oherwydd y gemau. Nid yw hynny’n dderbyniol, ac mae dylestwydd arnom i wrthwynebu’r toriadau hyn a siarad o blaid parhad ariannu mudiadau gwirfoddol yng Nghymru.

4.20 p.m.

Yr wyf am orffen drwy sôn am elfen arall ar gyllido a gyflwynwyd yn sir Gaerfyrddin, sef cynllun rhoi drwy gyflog. Yr oedd yn bleser gennyf fynychu’r lansiad yn Llanelli gyda’r Gweinidog fis diwethaf a gweld y gwaith arloesol sy’n cael ei wneud yn y sir yn y maes hwn. Mae’r bobl sy’n cymryd rhan yn y cynllun yn cyfrannu arian drwy eu cyflog cyn i’r dreth gael ei thynnu, sy’n golygu bod cymorth treth wedi ei gynnwys yn y rhodd ar y gyfradd dreth uchaf y mae’r gweithiwr yn ei thalu. Felly, o bob punt a gaiff ei chyfrannu, mae’r elusen yn derbyn £1.22. Mae hyn yn adeiladu cysylltiadau cryf rhwng y busnesau lleol a’r mudiadau gwirfoddol yn y sir. Mae’r rhai sy’n cyfrannu at y cynllun yn gwybod bod eu buddsoddiad yn cael ei rannu rhwng elusennau yn y sir. Mae’r prosiect yn un gwych, a byddwn yn annog busnesau sir Gâr i gymryd rhan ac yn annog rhannau eraill o Gymru i fabwysiadu systemau tebyg.

I will finish by mentioning another aspect of funding introduced in Carmarthenshire, namely payroll giving. I was pleased to attend the launch in Llanelli with the Minister last month and to see the innovative work that is being undertaken in the county in this area. Those participating in the scheme contribute money through their salaries before tax is deducted, which means that tax benefit is included in the gift at the highest rate that is paid by the employee. Therefore, for every pound that is contributed, the charity receives £1.22. This fosters strong links between businesses and voluntary organisations in the county. Those who contribute to the scheme are aware that their investment is shared equally between charities in the county. The project is excellent, and I would encourage businesses in Carmarthenshire to take part and encourage other parts of Wales to adopt similar systems.

Mae gwaith y trydydd sector yn hanfodol. Mae’n cyfoethogi ein cymunedau ac yn hanfodol i gymdeithasau ledled y wlad. Mae’n bwysig bod unigolion, busnesau, y Cynulliad a’r Llywodraeth yn parhau i gefnogi’r sector.

Eleanor Burnham: I welcome this report and the fact that the voluntary sector, or the third sector as it is now being called, is being given the recognition that it so rightly deserves. As a former hospice fundraiser and a volunteer for the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, I understand the enormous commitment made by so many volunteers in Wales and the UK. There are 30,000 organisations in Wales, 26,000 of which have a primarily local focus and rely entirely on volunteers. There are more than 1.5 million volunteers, who contribute as many hours as 90,000 full-time workers annually. It is mind-boggling. As we know, the third sector provides more than this and helps to inform us all. It generates a wider understanding of the relevant issues and the lobbying on hospices last year helped to inform the debate. We are obviously in a jam in terms of funding for hospices. Many people depend entirely on the invaluable work that hospices undertake, which contributes to our wellbeing.

Eleanor Burnham: Croesawaf yr adroddiad hwn a’r ffaith bod y sector gwirfoddol, neu’r trydydd sector fel y’i gelwir yn awr, yn cael y gydnabyddiaeth y mae’n ei haeddu gymaint. Fel un a arferai godi arian i hosbisau a gwirfoddolwr dros y Gymdeithas Genedlaethol er Atal Creulondeb i Blant, yr wyf yn deall yr ymrwymiad aruthrol gan gynifer o wirfoddolwyr yng Nghymru a’r DU. Mae 30,000 o gyrff yng Nghymru, y mae 26,000 ohonynt yn canolbwyntio ar ardal leol yn bennaf ac yn dibynnu’n llwyr ar wirfoddolwyr. Mae mwy nag 1.5 miliwn o wirfoddolwyr, sy’n cyfrannu cynifer o oriau â 90,000 o weithwyr llawnamser bob blwyddyn. Mae’n syfrdanol. Fel y gwyddom, mae’r trydydd sector yn darparu mwy na hyn ac yn helpu i oleuo pob un ohonom. Mae’n meithrin dealltwriaeth ehangach o’r materion perthnasol a bu’r lobïo ynghylch hosbisau y llynedd o gymorth i lywio’r ddadl. Mae’n amlwg ein bod mewn strach o ran cyllido hosbisau. Mae llawer o bobl yn dibynnu’n llwyr ar y gwaith amhrisiadwy a wnaiff hosbisau, sy’n cyfrannu at ein lles.

I welcome the proposals in the report, and the Government’s intention to work more closely with the sector and to promote it. However, everything in the garden is not rosy. According to a well-researched article in The Sunday Telegraph, volunteers are an endangered species. Although the article referred to the UK experience, it specifically referred to special constables, Mountain Rescue, the Samaritans and so on. Many people are finding that the strain of everyday living is preventing them from undertaking voluntary activity. Apparently, the number of volunteers in the UK has plummeted by 30,000 over the past decade. I am particularly concerned about how the Minister will help to shore up valuable organisations that are involved in youth activity, such as the Scout Association, Girlguiding UK and so on. I am particularly interested in that, as the youth spokesperson for my party, and I would like some answers from the Minister in his response.

Croesawaf y cynigion yn yr adroddiad, a bwriad y Llywodraeth i gydweithio’n agosach â’r sector a’i hyrwyddo. Er hynny, nid yw’r sefyllfa’n fêl i gyd. Yn ôl erthygl y mae cryn ymchwil yn sail iddi yn The Sunday Telegraph, mae gwirfoddolwyr yn mynd yn bobl brin. Er bod yr erthygl yn cyfeirio at y profiad yn y DU, cyfeiriai’n benodol at heddweision rhan-amser, Achub ar y Mynydd, y Samariaid ac yn y blaen. Mae llawer o bobl yn cael bod straen bywyd bob dydd yn eu hatal rhag ymgymryd â gweithgarwch gwirfoddol. Mae’n debyg bod nifer y gwirfoddolwyr yn y DU wedi gostwng 30,000 dros y degawd diwethaf. Yr wyf yn arbennig o awyddus i wybod sut y bydd y Gweinidog yn helpu i gynnal cyrff gwerthfawr sy’n ymwneud â gweithgarwch ieuenctid, fel Cymdeithas y Sgowtiaid, Girlguiding UK ac yn y blaen. Yr wyf yn ymddiddori’n arbennig yn hynny, fel llefarydd fy mhlaid ar ieuenctid, a hoffwn gael rhai atebion gan y Gweinidog yn ei ymateb.

The head of public affairs for WRVS said recently that the public perception of voluntary activity has changed, and that, unfortunately, many now perceive voluntary activities as being terribly old-fashioned and an extra burden on them when they do not have the time. I ask the Minister to comment on that.

Dywedodd pennaeth materion cyhoeddus Gwasanaeth Brenhinol Gwirfoddol y Merched yn ddiweddar fod canfyddiad y cyhoedd o weithgarwch gwirfoddol wedi newid, a bod llawer bellach, gwaetha’r modd, yn ystyried bod gweithgareddau gwirfoddol yn ofnadwy o hen ffasiwn ac yn faich ychwanegol arnynt a hwythau heb ddigon o amser. Gofynnaf i’r Gweinidog gyflwyno sylwadau am hynny.

I hope that the Government can continue to support the sector, because I think that most Members are concerned about the three-year budget cycle when we discuss issues that relate to voluntary activity. The draft strategic action plan called for more integrated support to be provided to the third sector. What progress has been made on that? How are you planning to champion the sector’s interests at the highest level and across the whole of Government, as requested?

Yr wyf yn gobeithio y gall y Llywodraeth barhau i gefnogi’r sector, gan fy mod yn credu bod y rhan fwyaf o’r Aelodau’n bryderus ynghylch y cylch cyllideb tair blynedd pan drafodwn faterion sy’n ymwneud â gweithgarwch gwirfoddol. Yr oedd y cynllun drafft gweithredu strategol yn galw am roi mwy o gymorth integredig i’r trydydd sector. Pa gynnydd a wnaethpwyd ar hynny? Sut yr ydych yn bwriadu hyrwyddo buddiannau’r sector ar y lefel uchaf ac ym mhob rhan o’r Lywodraeth, fel y gofynnwyd?

I commend the huge amount of voluntary activity that goes on, particularly in the hospice sector, with which I was closely linked. Without that kind of activity, we would be in a terrible jam and I would like some comments from the Minister on that.

Cymeradwyaf y gweithgarwch gwirfoddol aruthrol sy’n digwydd, yn enwedig yn sector yr hosbisau, y bu gennyf gysylltiad agos ag ef. Heb weithgarwch o’r math hwnnw, byddem mewn trafferth ofnadwy a hoffwn gael rhai sylwadau gan y Gweinidog am hynny.

Lesley Griffiths: As other Members have mentioned, a scrutiny inquiry into the funding of voluntary sector organisations in Wales is currently being undertaken by the Communities and Culture Committee, of which I am also a member. Although we are only part-way through this inquiry, it is becoming more apparent, through the evidence sessions that have already taken place, that voluntary organisations, generally speaking, are looking for longer-term funding commitments from the Government. As Nerys mentioned, a minimum of three-year, but preferably five-year, funding programmes are being discussed, in order to offer the various voluntary organisations the assistance that they need to deliver sustainable projects.

Lesley Griffiths: Fel y soniodd Aelodau eraill, mae ymchwiliad craffu ynglŷn â chyllido cyrff y sector gwirfoddol yng Nghymru yn cael ei gynnal ar hyn o bryd gan y Pwyllgor Cymunedau a Diwylliant, yr wyf fi hefyd yn aelod ohono. Er nad ydym wedi cwblhau’r ymchwiliad hwn, mae’n dod yn fwy amlwg, drwy’r sesiynau tystiolaeth a gafwyd eisoes, fod cyrff gwirfoddol, at ei gilydd, yn chwilio am ymrwymiadau ar gyfer cyllido tymor hwy gan y Llywodraeth. Fel y soniodd Nerys, mae rhaglenni cyllido tair blynedd fan leiaf, ond rhai pum mlynedd os oes modd, yn cael eu trafod, er mwyn cynnig i’r gwahanol gyrff gwirfoddol y cymorth y mae arnynt ei angen i gyflawni prosiectau cynaliadwy.

To some extent, I share those concerns. This is not direct criticism of Government support, but I am sure that we can all cite examples from our constituencies, that too many organisations across Wales are forced to cut short many innovative and worthwhile projects or schemes, simply because the funding has dried-up or the sums have been underestimated. In some cases, such projects, or elements of them, re-appear at a later date, in another guise, with the associated setting-up and revenue costs having to be funded all over again. That is not good for the organisations concerned or for the public purse.

I ryw raddau, mae’r pryderon hynny gennyf finnau hefyd. Nid yw hyn yn feirniadaeth uniongyrchol ar gymorth gan y Llywodraeth, ond yr wyf yn siŵr y gallwn oll gyfeirio at enghreifftiau yn ein hetholaethau, sy’n dangos bod gormod o gyrff ledled Cymru’n gorfod rhoi’r gorau i lawer o brosiectau neu gynlluniau arloesol a buddiol, dim ond am fod y cyllid wedi dod i ben neu fod yr amcangyfrifon yn rhy isel. Mewn rhai achosion, mae prosiectau o’r fath, neu elfennau ohonynt, yn ailymddangos yn ddiweddarach, ar ffurf arall, fel bod yn rhaid ariannu’r holl gostau sefydlu a refeniw sy’n gysylltiedig unwaith eto. Nid yw hynny’n beth da i’r cyrff dan sylw nac i’r pwrs cyhoeddus.

I would urge the Government to look closely at the evidence that we have been examining in committee, to have a better understanding of the problems faced by organisations. There are, as all Members are aware, a plethora of voluntary organisations in Wales doing wonderful work in all kinds of areas. However, one thing that has struck me, since my election, is that there is undoubtedly an overlap in delivery in some areas of interest. Anecdotally, I attended a seminar that was organised to address the issue of raising education standards in one small area of my constituency. It was a perfectly sensible and laudable attempt to tackle something that we would all have an interest in, in our respective constituencies. However, there were 32 separate agencies represented at that seminar, from just that one area, and that tells me that there is an overlap between agencies and that there may be too many organisations trying to do the same thing and trying to reach the same conclusions.

Byddwn yn annog y Llywodraeth i edrych yn fanwl ar y dystiolaeth y buom yn ei hystyried yn y pwyllgor, er mwyn deall yn well y problemau y mae cyrff yn eu hwynebu. Fel y gŵyr yr holl Aelodau, mae llu o gyrff gwirfoddol yng Nghymru sy’n gwneud gwaith rhyfeddol ym mhob math o feysydd. Fodd bynnag, un peth sydd wedi fy nharo, ers imi gael fy ethol, yw ei bod yn sicr bod gorgyffwrdd o ran y ddarpariaeth mewn rhai meysydd buddiant. Os caf roi un hanesyn, bûm mewn seminar a drefnwyd i ymdrin â mater codi safonau addysg mewn un ardal fach yn fy etholaeth. Yr oedd yn ymgais cwbl synhwyrol a chanmoladwy i ymdrin â rhywbeth y byddem oll yn ymddiddori ynddo, yn ein priod etholaethau. Fodd bynnag, yr oedd 32 o asiantaethau gwahanol yn cael eu cynrychioli yn y seminar hwnnw, o’r ardal honno’n unig, ac mae hynny’n dangos i mi fod gorgyffwrdd rhwng asiantaethau a’i bod yn bosibl bod gormod o gyrff yn ceisio gwneud yr un peth ac yn ceisio cyrraedd yr un casgliadau.

I believe that, maybe at the end of our committee inquiry, a quid pro quo for the Welsh Assembly Government may be a way forward in relation to the funding of voluntary organisations. If the Government is to look at longer term funding for such groups, which they want, then maybe those groups should, in return, look at overlaps and duplications within the services and projects that they deliver.

Yr wyf yn credu, ar ddiwedd ymchwiliad ein pwyllgor efallai, ei bod yn bosibl mai quid pro quo i Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru fydd un ffordd ymlaen o ran ariannu cyrff gwirfoddol. Os yw’r Llywodraeth i ystyried cyllid tymor hwy ar gyfer grwpiau o’r fath, sef yr hyn y maent am ei gael, efallai y dylai’r grwpiau hynny, yn gyfnewid am hynny, edrych ar orgyffwrdd a dyblygu yn y gwasanaethau a’r prosiectau y maent yn eu darparu.

The Minister for Social Justice and Local Government (Brian Gibbons): I thank Members for their positive and constructive engagement. A number of important points were made during the debate and I will try to pick up on a few of them.

Y Gweinidog dros Gyfiawnder Cymdeithasol a Llywodraeth Leol (Brian Gibbons): Diolchaf i Aelodau am gymryd rhan yn gadarnhaol ac yn adeiladol. Gwnaethpwyd nifer o bwyntiau pwysig yn ystod y ddadl a cheisiaf ymdrin ag ychydig ohonynt.

David Melding, at the beginning, mentioned the voluntary sector partnership council, which is a useful forum at which Assembly Members could meet the voluntary sector. I had a meeting with the partnership council last week and it is keen to build up a strong relationship with other Assembly Members, other than Government members. I am sure that the sentiments expressed by David Melding will be warmly received and I think that the sector is keen to maintain that relationship with the broad membership of the National Assembly.

Cyfeiriodd David Melding, ar y dechrau, at gyngor partneriaeth y sector gwirfoddol, sy’n fforwm defnyddiol lle y gallai Aelodau’r Cynulliad gwrdd â’r sector gwirfoddol. Cefais gyfarfod â’r cyngor partneriaeth yr wythnos diwethaf ac mae’n awyddus i feithrin perthynas gref gydag Aelodau eraill o’r Cynulliad, heblaw aelodau’r Llywodraeth. Yr wyf yn sicr y bydd croeso cynnes i’r syniadau a fynegwyd gan David Melding ac yr wyf yn credu bod y sector yn awyddus i gadw’r berthynas honno ag aelodaeth gyffredinol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol.

Reference was also made to the funding that the sector receives. In the light of the comprehensive spending review settlement, funding and getting best value for that funding is a key issue, as Lesley Griffiths mentioned. Wherever possible, we need to move towards three-year funding regimes because that will guarantee stability, although, equally, we need to acknowledge that, from time to time, there will be smaller projects that could be undertaken effectively in a shorter timescale and it would also be important to avail ourselves of those opportunities.

Cyfeiriwyd hefyd at y cyllid y mae’r sector yn ei gael. Yng ngoleuni setliad yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant, mae cyllid a chael y gwerth gorau am y cyllid hwnnw’n fater allweddol, fel y soniodd Lesley Griffiths. Lle bynnag y bo modd, mae angen inni symud at gyfundrefnau cyllido tair blynedd gan y bydd hynny’n gwarantu sefydlogrwydd ond, yn yr un modd, er hynny, mae angen inni gydnabod y bydd prosiectau llai, o dro i dro, y gellid ymgymryd â hwy’n effeithiol o fewn cyfnod byrrach a byddai hefyd yn bwysig inni achub y cyfleoedd hynny.

Byddem oll yn cytuno bod y Gemau Olympaidd wedi bod yn her sylweddol inni. Gwn fod fy rhagflaenydd, Edwina Hart, wedi cyflwyno sylwadau ar y mater hwn ac mae’r un pryderon ag a oedd ganddi hi gennyf finnau. Mae’n wir ein bod wedi cael gwarant y darperir cyllid rheolaidd, ond bydd yr her yn codi mewn cysylltiad â phrosiectau newydd sy’n dechrau, ac yr wyf yn credu bod hynny’n sicr yn fater pwysig.

4.30 p.m.

Reference was made to the spend in local government and, while it is true that, as Peter Black said, the revenue support grant will be going up by 2.2 per cent approximately, the overall increase in local government spend will, as Jeff Cuthbert mentioned, be just over 3 per cent, which will be a real-terms increase in the money going to local government. We all recognise that this is a difficult time for local government, and Lesley Griffiths made the point that this is an area where we need to make efficient use of the money that is available and avoid duplication.

Cyfeiriwyd at y gwariant mewn llywodraeth leol ac, er ei bod yn wir, fel y dywedodd Peter Black, y bydd y grant cynnal refeniw’n codi tua 2.2 y cant, bydd y cynnydd cyffredinol yng ngwariant llywodraeth leol, fel y soniodd Jeff Cuthbert, ychydig dros 3 y cant, sef cynnydd mewn termau real yn yr arian a aiff i lywodraeth leol. Yr ydym i gyd yn cydnabod bod hwn yn gyfnod anodd i lywodraeth leol, a gwnaeth Lesley Griffiths y pwynt bod hwn yn faes lle y mae angen inni wneud defnydd effeithlon o’r arian sydd ar gael ac osgoi dyblygu.

Peter Black: I accept that when you add in the specific grants, particularly around waste management, you get a 3 per cent increase, but, in terms of the amount of money that local councils have for general expenditure, which can be used to offset council tax, you are talking about 2.2 per cent, which is below inflation and will put a great deal of pressure on local councils.

Peter Black: Derbyniaf pan ychwanegir y grantiau penodol, yn enwedig ynghylch rheoli gwastraff, fod cynnydd o 3 y cant, ond, o ran yr arian sydd gan gynghorau lleol ar gyfer gwariant cyffredinol, y gellir ei ddefnyddio yn erbyn y dreth gyngor, yr ydych yn sôn am 2.2 y cant, sydd yn is na chwyddiant, ac a fydd yn rhoi llawer iawn o bwysau ar gynghorau lleol.

Brian Gibbons: That is not in dispute, and I can see that point, but the extra money that is being made available is for the key priority areas that the Welsh Local Government Association identified. Therefore, even though the money will not be going into the revenue support grant, it will be going to the pressure points as identified by local government.

Brian Gibbons: Nid oes dadl am hynny, a gallaf weld y pwynt hwnnw, ond mae’r arian ychwanegol sy’n cael ei ddarparu wedi’i glustnodi ar gyfer y meysydd blaenoriaeth allweddol a enwyd gan Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru. Felly, er na fydd yr arian yn mynd i mewn i’r grant cynnal refeniw, bydd yn mynd i’r meysydd allweddol a nodwyd gan lywodraeth leol.

Nerys, in her contribution, referred to links with business, and I covered that in my speech. She also mentioned the importance of being able to engage effectively through the medium of Welsh, and I am pleased to confirm that we have made a compact with the Welsh Language Board in the last 12 months, and that, hopefully, will address some of your concerns in that area.

Cyfeiriodd Nerys yn ei chyfraniad at gysylltiadau â byd busnes, a deliais â hynny yn fy araith. Soniodd hefyd am bwysigrwydd gallu trafod yn effeithiol drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, ac yr wyf yn falch o gadarnhau ein bod wedi gwneud compact gyda Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg yn ystod y 12 mis diwethaf, a bydd hynny, gobeithio, yn ateb rhai o’ch pryderon yn hynny o beth.

I am grateful for Members’ contributions. There is a broad consensus across all political parties in the Assembly on the importance of the sector, and by maintaining that broad spirit of consensus and co-operation, we will be able to work with the third sector and provide it with new challenges as outlined in the action plan.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am gyfraniadau Aelodau. Mae consensws cyffredinol ar draws yr holl bleidiau gwleidyddol yn y Cynulliad ynghylch pwysigrwydd y sector, a thrwy gynnal yr ysbryd cyffredinol hwnnw o gonsensws a chydweithrediad, gallwn weithio gyda’r trydydd sector a chynnig heriau newydd iddo fel yr amlinellwyd yn y cynllun gweithredu.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Derbyn gwelliant 1 a gyflwynwyd yn enw William Graham yw’r cynnig sydd gerbron. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Gwelaf fod. Felly, cawn bleidlais.

Black, Peter
Burnham, Eleanor
Cairns, Alun
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Paul
German, Michael
Melding, David
Millar, Darren
Morgan, Jonathan
Ramsay, Nick
Randerson, Jenny
Williams, Brynle
Williams, Kirsty

Andrews, Leighton
Asghar, Mohammad
Barrett, Lorraine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davidson, Jane
Davies, Alun
Davies, Andrew
Davies, Jocelyn
Evans, Nerys
Franks, Chris
Gibbons, Brian
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Hart, Edwina
Hutt, Jane
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Carwyn
Jones, Elin
Jones, Gareth
Jones, Helen Mary
Lloyd, David
Lloyd, Val
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Rhodri
Ryder, Janet
Sargeant, Carl
Thomas, Gwenda
Wood, Leanne

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? I see that they do not. In accordance with Standing Order No. 7.35, the motion is therefore agreed.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.