CYP(3)-AS-13

NDCS Cymru
4 Cathedral Road
Cardiff CF11 9LJ

Tel 029 2037 3474 (v/t)
Email ndcswales@ndcs.org.uk

Freephone Helpline
0808 800 8880 (v/t)

Mr John Grimes
Clerk to the Children and Young People Committee
Assembly Parliamentary Service
Cardiff
CF99 1NA

Dear Mr Grimes,

Committee Consultation on CYP Advocacy Services

Thankyou for the opportunity to contribute to the consultation on advocacy models for children and young people. Our contribution seeks to make two points: around low incidence commissioning, and specialist communication requirements.

As the National Deaf Children’s Society we naturally have an interest in advocacy for a specific group of young people. For deaf children and young people communication is both

(i) the issue for which advocacy is most likely to be about (e.g. the right to communication support, schooling or social care which recognises the particular issues around being deaf and the individual choices of the child/young person);

(ii) and for which specialist communication knowledge on the part of the advocate (e.g. a knowledge of communication needs, language and communication development in practise and theory) is most likely to be needed.   

There are aspects of the Government document which acknowledge that communication is a particular need to be addressed discretely; and areas which don’t. As an organisation we would want that understanding of communication requirements to run as a thread throughout the plan.  

Question 1: How should advocacy services be developed to ensure independence, trust and flexibility

From a commissioning perspective there is little in the document which distinguishes between high and low incidence advocacy requirements. For high incidence demands a regional level of commissioning from a variety of advocacy providers would be appropriate.

For lower incidence needs, where there may be fewer specialist providers, a national commissioning approach might be more appropriate. Whilst we would endorse the idea of a single advocate lead for complicated cases, it’s important that whoever that provider is has at least a basic understanding of the full suite of issues, even if calling on other specialist providers in support.

Question 2: Response to the WAG consultation in 2007

We did not respond to the original WAG consultation.

Question 3i: Adequacy of proposed service model

The biggest issue to address is the commissioning and quality assurance level for low incidence needs where we are sceptical that the same scale of commissioning can possibly provide expertise (both at subject and geographical level) for both high and low incidence needs.

Question 3ii: Views on the Children’s advocacy Unit

It may be, regarding the need to recognise low incidency need advocacy commissioning, that one of the key purposes of such a unit could either be as the commissioner itself, or to take a lead in providing recommendations of appropriate providers. This would mirror the approach in health with more specialist commissioning taking place at a higher level.

Finally, I’ve attached a contribution we received from a deaf young person to our recent youth (9-18) consultation 'Change your World’ which we carried out across the UK in the latter half of 2007. I think it spells out eloquently and at first hand some of the very real and complicated issues in advocacy and service for deaf young people; and thought it would, as well as the more formal contribution from NDCS, contribute usefully to your debate.

NDCS would, of course, be happy to supply any further information on advocacy services for and the needs of deaf children and young people.

With best wishes
Yours sincerely
Stephen Smith
Director, NDCS, Wales

Appendix to NDCS submission

I am 18, a Deaf BSL user, educated at a mainstream school. During my years in education, I have always felt that the vast majority of Deaf children/young people I know do miss out a lot in education and their childhood. I could easily write the equivalent of an encyclopaedia about my views on this matter, but to summarise, I think the areas in most need of improving are access, integration, language and culture.

I was fortunate enough to have been brought up bilingually, both at home and at school, with the result being that my English has always been, at least, on a par with my hearing peers (for my entire educational life, I have always been in the top set of my year for English as well as pretty much every other subject I studied). However, I have always felt uncomfortable and embarrassed when other D/deaf people read things I have written/typed, as they always comment on my level of English and remark that they often don't understand what I am writing/typing. I strongly believe this is unacceptable - how are they expected to live in our society when they have a limited understanding of our national language?

Furthermore, I always feel that D/deaf people often have a lack of understanding of hearing culture and norms. This is usually a result of the current mainstream education system, where D/deaf people are often insufficiently educated and integrated into general school life and outside society due to the manner in which they are treated and educated. As an example, I once had to talk to my Year Head in school as I was a witness to a dispute between two Deaf pupils (who were both 14-15 at the time). The exact reason for their dispute was, in my view, extremely infantile and petty compared to most reasons for disputes within hearing people of that age. I believe this is a clear example of a problem arising from a lack of awareness and understanding of general youth culture - that is to say, they don't have full access to society in general and therefore do not know the patterns of behaviour appropriate and expected of people their age. Indeed, many D/deaf adults, due to these problems in their education, often behave 'immaturely' and make 'odd' comments (from a general, hearing perspective) because they have no awareness of appropriate behaviour, conversation and topics of humour. This is likely to provide significant barriers for D/deaf people wishing to integrate and/or find employment within a hearing environment.

Other D/deaf people, on the other hand, have a lack of understanding of D/deaf culture due to total isolation in mainstream schools and a lack of mixing with other D/deaf people of a similar age. This leaves them with a distinct lack of identity - I know many examples of people who are simply stuck in the 'grey' area between D/deaf and hearing communities because they have never had contact with D/deaf people, and were unsuccessfully brought up as hearing people.

As I said, I genuinely could point out scores and scores of major problems with the current education system and child/youth schemes, but I think it's probably best, for now, to cut this e-mail unsatisfyingly short and outline my personal views on how the situation could be improved.

Although many D/deaf people feel very strongly against the mainstream education system, I think it is the correct idea although there are some vast improvements to be made (although I admit I wouldn't talk so heavily in favour of the mainstream system to any D/deaf person unless I feel I could trust them to take my views in the manner they were intended!) I want to make note of the fact that I have never attended a Deaf school, and that my views are my own only.

Sending children to Deaf schools, for me, is fairly archaic and even though the linguistic (in terms of BSL) and cultural benefits of Deaf schools certainly cannot be denied, I do not think it sufficiently prepares them for life in a hearing world. Furthermore, Deaf schools rarely provide an education on a par with hearing schools (even pro-Deaf-school people mostly agree with this). Whether they like it or not, D/deaf people have to learn how to live and work in a hearing world. I personally feel that mainstream schools (and LEAs) need to do a lot in improving the system and ensuring that, for one, D/deaf pupils, whatever their chosen communication method, should be able to mix with other D/deaf children in school ( i.e. I don't agree with D/deaf pupils being the only D/deaf pupil in an entire school of hearing children).

Access to the teacher is also of paramount importance, and I personally detest Teachers of the Deaf and Communication Support Workers who insist upon teaching D/deaf pupils themselves, disciplining them themselves and creating divisions between the pupil and the class through their very own embarrassing and interfering presence. I went through years of a ToD/CSW controlling me and my work, and only allowing me to talk to others in the third person ( i.e. 'Nicholas says that....', 'Miss Smith thinks that.....') that I requested that a full-time interpreter be provided in order for me to have the access I need. I became probably the first - and only - school pupil in the UK to have a full-time interpreter for access to the classroom and the school as a whole. I found the difference to be vast, and I felt that I was finally a member of the school community, through simply being able to talk to my teachers and peers directly, doing my own work without interference by anybody except my teacher as well as being told off by the teacher!

As well as access in the classroom, to the general school and pupil community and culture, I feel that the 'education' of parents of D/deaf children is important. One continuing concern within the D/deaf community is parents being being encouraged by doctors to allow their child to have a cochlear implant and be brought up orally. I hasten to clarify that I am not an anti-cochlear implant activist or the like - I simply feel that parents should be given impartial information about the options they can take and that they are able to make an informed choice, free from undue pressure, about how the feel is the best way to bring up their child. Furthermore, I would like to emphasise that it is vital that people representing the Deaf/BSL user/BSL-and-English bilingualism 'side' should be exactly the correct people or organisation with the correct information. Many Deaf people have quite had enough of incorrectly-qualified, poorly-informed and/or prejudiced people speaking for them!

Please rest assured I have many years' worth of educational-access-related frustrations and observations in order to have what I hope are valuable (and hopefully fair) views of how the NDCS could use their not-inconsiderable influence to improve the lives and prospects of all D/deaf children and young people.