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Cofnod y Trafodion.
The Record of Proceedings

Dydd Mercher, 28 Tachwedd 2012
Wednesday, 28 November 2012

Cynnwys
Contents

Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol
Questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services

Cwestiynau i’r Cwnsler Cyffredinol
Questions to the Counsel General

Cwestiynau i Gomisiwn y Cynulliad
Questions to the Assembly Commission

Cynnig i Ddiwygio Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6 mewn perthynas â Chadeiryddion Dros Dro yn y Cyfarfod Llawn
Motion to Amend Standing Order No. 6 in relation to the Temporary Chair of Plenary Meetings

Dadl gan Aelodau Unigol o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 11.21(iv): Iechyd Meddwl
Debate by Individual Members under Standing Order No. 11.21(iv): Mental Health

Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig: Rheoli Grantiau
Welsh Conservatives Debate: Grants Management

Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig: Taliadau Uniongyrchol mewn Gofal Cymdeithasol
Welsh Conservatives Debate: Direct Payments in Social Care

Cyfnod Pleidleisio
Voting Time

Dadl Fer: Rail Cymru—Rheilffordd y Bobl i Gymru
Short Debate: Rail Cymru—A People’s Railway for Wales

Yn y golofn chwith, cofnodwyd y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y Siambr. Yn y golofn dde, cynhwyswyd cyfieithiad.
In the left-hand column, the proceedings are recorded in the language in which they were spoken in the Chamber. In the right-hand column, a translation has been included.

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 1.30 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd (Rosemary Butler) yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 1.30 p.m.with the Presiding Officer (Rosemary Butler) in the Chair.

The Record

The Presiding Officer: Good afternoon. The National Assembly for Wales is now in session.

Y Llywydd: Prynhawn da. Dyma ddechrau trafodion Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru.

Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol
Questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services

The Record

Cefnogaeth i Ofalwyr

Support for Carers

1. Mark Drakeford: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gefnogaeth i ofalwyr yng Nghymru. OAQ(4)0205(HSS)

1. Mark Drakeford: Will the Minister make a statement on support for carers in Wales. OAQ(4)0205(HSS)

The Deputy Minister for Children and Social Services (Gwenda Thomas): On 13 November, I published for consultation a draft of a refreshed carers strategy for Wales. The strategy provides a framework for achieving positive outcomes for carers. The final version will be published in April 2013, in line with the commitment we gave in our programme for government.

Y Dirprwy Weinidog dros Blant a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Gwenda Thomas): Ar 13 Tachwedd, cyhoeddais ar gyfer ymgynghoriad fersiwn ddrafft o strategaeth gofalwyr ddiwygiedig i Gymru. Mae’r strategaeth yn darparu fframwaith ar gyfer sicrhau canlyniadau cadarnhaol i ofalwyr. Cyhoeddir y fersiwn derfynol ym mis Ebrill 2013, yn unol â’r ymrwymiad a wnaethom yn ein rhaglen lywodraethu.

 

Mark Drakeford: As you will be aware, the Health and Social Care Committee, in our inquiry into residential care services, has worked closely with a reference group of individuals who are themselves carers of elderly people in the community and now in residential care. They have impressed on us, throughout our inquiry, the importance of the social services Bill in helping to shape services for carers in the future. Can you give us an assurance that, when the Bill is published, we can look to it to ensure that the interests of carers are properly represented and protected?

Mark Drakeford: Fel y gwyddoch, mae’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol, yn ein hymchwiliad i wasanaethau gofal preswyl, wedi gweithio’n agos gyda grŵp cyfeirio o unigolion sy’n gofalu am bobl hŷn yn y gymuned a bellach mewn gofal preswyl. Maent wedi pwysleisio, drwy gydol ein hymchwiliad, bwysigrwydd y Bil gwasanaethau cymdeithasol o ran helpu i lywio gwasanaethau i ofalwyr yn y dyfodol. Allwch chi roi sicrwydd inni, pan gyhoeddir y Mesur, y bydd yn sicrhau y caiff buddiannau gofalwyr eu cynrychioli a’u diogelu’n briodol?

 

Gwenda Thomas: I refer Assembly Members to my written statement on 12 November, outlining measures to promote carers’ rights under the social services and wellbeing (Wales) Bill. This means that, for the first time, carers will have equivalent rights to those people whom they care for. The proposals will include measures to ensure that local authorities and local health boards provide, or arrange the provision of, a range and level of services, including preventative services to carers, that are accessible within the community, and will take account of the carers that you have described this afternoon.

Gwenda Thomas: Cyfeiriaf Aelodau’r Cynulliad at fy natganiad ysgrifenedig ar 12 Tachwedd, yn amlinellu mesurau i hyrwyddo hawliau gofalwyr o dan y Bil gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a lles (Cymru). Mae hyn yn golygu, am y tro cyntaf, y bydd gan ofalwyr yr un hawliau â’r bobl hynny y maent yn gofalu amdanynt. Bydd y cynigion yn cynnwys mesurau i sicrhau bod awdurdodau lleol a byrddau iechyd lleol yn darparu, neu’n trefnu i ddarparu, amrywiaeth a lefel o wasanaethau, gan gynnwys gwasanaethau ataliol i ofalwyr, sy’n hygyrch o fewn y gymuned, a bydd yn cymryd i ystyriaeth y gofalwyr a ddisgrifiwyd gennych y prynhawn yma.

 

Antoinette Sandbach: You will be aware of the excellent example of the Access to Action scheme, which supports young carers in Flintshire. It is a card that allows them to overcome the daily challenges they experience in the course of caring for their parents. One reoccurring difficulty is to do with picking up prescription medications from pharmacies. Can you confirm what steps you will take to help young carers with this specific issue, and what action will you be taking to spread this best practice in Flintshire across Wales?

Antoinette Sandbach: Byddwch yn ymwybodol o’r enghraifft ardderchog o gynllun Access to Action, sy’n cefnogi gofalwyr ifanc yn Sir y Fflint. Cerdyn ydyw sy’n eu galluogi i oresgyn yr heriau dyddiol a wynebir ganddynt wrth ofalu am eu rhieni. Un anhawster sy’n codi dro ar ôl tro yw casglu meddyginiaethau presgripsiwn o fferyllfeydd. A allwch gadarnhau pa gamau y byddwch yn eu cymryd i helpu gofalwyr ifanc gyda’r mater penodol hwn, a pha gamau y byddwch yn eu cymryd i ledaenu’r arfer gorau hwn yn Sir y Fflint ledled Cymru?

 

Gwenda Thomas: That is the essence of what the Bill will do for carers. I am impressed with the ID card scheme, and Lindsay Whittle, I believe, brought that up during the last questions to the Minister. I want the strategy to look at examples such as the Flintshire ID card scheme when the strategy is refreshed, and you will know that I have launched a 12-week consultation on the refreshing of the strategy. I am sure you, like others, will want to feed in that good practice in Flintshire.

Gwenda Thomas: Dyna hanfod yr hyn y bydd y Bil yn ei wneud i ofalwyr. Mae’r cynllun cardiau adnabod wedi creu argraff arnaf, a soniodd Lindsay Whittle am hynny, rwy’n credu, yn ystod y cwestiynau diwethaf i’r Gweinidog. Rwyf am i’r strategaeth ystyried enghreifftiau megis cynllun cardiau adnabod Sir y Fflint pan gaiff y strategaeth ei diwygio, a byddwch yn gwybod fy mod wedi lansio ymgynghoriad 12 wythnos ar y gwaith o ddiwygio’r strategaeth. Rwy’n siŵr eich bod chi, fel eraill, yn awyddus i gynnwys yr arfer da hwnnw yn Sir y Fflint.

 

Lindsay Whittle: How will you monitor the extent to which occupational therapists, health workers and social workers work together to provide a more integrated homecare service?

Lindsay Whittle: Sut y byddwch yn monitro i ba raddau y mae therapyddion galwedigaethol, gweithwyr iechyd a gweithwyr cymdeithasol yn gweithio gyda’i gilydd i ddarparu gwasanaeth gofal cartref mwy integredig?

 

Gwenda Thomas: The Bill will look at all aspects of the future delivery of social services. Occupational therapy is something that I have identified that can perhaps be delivered on a regional basis, and we are looking at that closely. The Bill will give us a strategic way forward for all of these services, and the services that you mentioned are intrinsic to the way forward and must be part of how we develop the Bill and how the Bill enables those services to deliver.

Gwenda Thomas: Bydd y Bil yn ystyried pob agwedd ar ddarparu gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn y dyfodol. Mae therapi galwedigaethol yn rhywbeth a nodwyd gennyf y gellir o bosibl ei ddarparu’n rhanbarthol, ac rydym yn ystyried hynny’n ofalus. Bydd y Bil yn cynnig ffordd strategol ymlaen i bob un o’r gwasanaethau hyn, ac mae’r gwasanaethau a grybwyllwyd gennych yn rhan annatod o hynny a rhaid iddynt fod yn rhan o’r modd rydym yn datblygu’r Bil a sut mae’r Bil yn galluogi’r gwasanaethau hynny i ddarparu.

 

Lindsay Whittle: I can feel the hand of the chair, Mark Drakeford, in this question, but we have not spoken about it, I promise. On the carers strategy for Wales, what guidance will you be giving to health boards and local authorities on their duty to assess the needs of carers? Until now, as you obviously know, assessing the needs of carers was optional, but it will be compulsory, I believe.

Lindsay Whittle: Gallaf deimlo llaw'r cadeirydd, Mark Drakeford, yn y cwestiwn hwn, ond nid ydym wedi siarad amdano, rwy’n addo. O ran y strategaeth ar gyfer gofalwyr yng Nghymru, pa ganllawiau y byddwch yn eu rhoi i fyrddau iechyd ac awdurdodau lleol ar eu dyletswydd i asesu anghenion gofalwyr? Hyd yn hyn, fel y gwyddoch yn amlwg, roedd asesu anghenion gofalwyr yn ddewisol, ond bydd yn orfodol, rwy’n credu.

 

Gwenda Thomas: The needs and rights of carers will be taken forward in the social services and wellbeing Bill. The carers strategy is an umbrella strategy and will look at the needs of carers. It is important that we recognise that this strategy has been a huge step forward since it was established in 2000. However, looking at what we can do now with a refreshed carers’ strategy is very important, and the strategic direction that this strategy will give, as I have mentioned, is the key to the way forward. The strategy sets out five areas where we want to achieve positive outcomes, and I will run through those quickly. They are: promoting carers’ rights through new social care legislation, improving the identification of carers and ensuring that they receive appropriate and timely information and advice, supporting young carers and young adult carers up to the age of 25, ensuring that all carers get the breaks that they need from caring, and supporting carers who work, or who wish to move back into work, and promoting flexibility among employers. Therefore, it is quite a wide-ranging strategy, and it is important now that we feed in to the consultation.

Gwenda Thomas: Caiff anghenion a hawliau gofalwyr eu datblygu yn y Bil gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a lles. Strategaeth ymbarél yw’r strategaeth gofalwyr a bydd yn ystyried anghenion gofalwyr. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cydnabod bod y strategaeth hon wedi bod yn gam enfawr ymlaen ers ei sefydlu yn 2000. Fodd bynnag, mae ystyried yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud nawr gyda strategaeth gofalwyr ddiwygiedig yn bwysig iawn, ac mae’r cyfeiriad strategol y bydd y strategaeth hon yn ei roi, fel y soniais, yn allweddol i’r ffordd ymlaen. Mae’r strategaeth yn nodi pum maes lle rydym am sicrhau canlyniadau cadarnhaol, a soniaf amdanynt yn gyflym, sef: hyrwyddo hawliau gofalwyr drwy ddeddfwriaeth gofal cymdeithasol newydd, gwella ffyrdd o nodi gofalwyr a sicrhau eu bod yn cael gwybodaeth a chyngor priodol ac amserol, cefnogi gofalwyr ifanc a gofalwyr sy’n oedolion ifanc hyd at 25 oed, gan sicrhau bod pob gofalwr yn cael y seibiannau sydd eu hangen arno o ofalu, a chefnogi gofalwyr sy’n gweithio, neu sy’n dymuno symud yn ôl i waith, a hyrwyddo hyblygrwydd ymhlith cyflogwyr. Felly, mae’n strategaeth eithaf eang ei chwmpas, ac mae’n bwysig nawr ein bod yn cyfrannu at yr ymgynghoriad.

Triniaeth IVF

IVF Treatment

2. Ieuan Wyn Jones: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am driniaeth IVF yng Nghymru. OAQ(4)0204(HSS)

2. Ieuan Wyn Jones: Will the Minister make a statement on IVF treatment in Wales. OAQ(4)0204(HSS)

The Minister for Health and Social Services (Lesley Griffiths): All eligible patients in Wales are entitled to receive two cycles of IVF funded by the NHS. We are working with the NHS in Wales to ensure that safe and sustainable services are provided in Wales for the future.

Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Lesley Griffiths): Mae gan bob claf cymwys yng Nghymru yr hawl i gael dau gylch o driniaeth IVF a ariennir gan y GIG. Rydym yn gweithio gyda’r GIG yng Nghymru i sicrhau y caiff gwasanaethau diogel a chynaliadwy eu darparu yng Nghymru i’r dyfodol.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Bydd y Gweinidog yn ymwybodol bod canllawiau’r Sefydliad Cenedlaethol dros Iechyd a Rhagoriaeth Glinigol yng Nghymru yn datgan y dylai cleifion gael tair triniaeth IVF. Ar hyn o bryd, fel y nododd y Gweinidog, dim ond dau gwrs sy’n cael eu cyllido. Mae hi wedi awgrymu, mewn llythyr i mi, yn garedig iawn, ei bod yn ystyried symud o ddau i dri chwrs. Pryd fydd y Llywodraeth mewn sefyllfa i gyllido’r tri chwrs hynny i gleifion, sydd, fel y gŵyr y Gweinidog, yn disgwyl am newyddion gan y Llywodraeth?

Ieuan Wyn Jones: The Minister will be aware that the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence guidelines in Wales state that patients should have three cycles of IVF. At present, as the Minister noted, only two cycles are funded. She has suggested, in a letter to me, kindly, that she is considering moving from two to three cycles. When will the Government be in a position to fund those three cycles for patients, who, as the Minister will know, are waiting for news from the Government?

Lesley Griffiths: The fact that all eligible couples are already receiving two cycles of IVF on the NHS in Wales is very positive, particularly if we compare that to the considerable regional variation that exists elsewhere in the UK. We would like to offer people three cycles of IVF in Wales, in line, as you say, with NICE recommendations. However, we need to work with the NHS in Wales, and with the Welsh Institute for Health and Social Care, to manage competing priorities and decide how the money is to be spent. It is something that is being kept under regular consideration by the NHS in Wales at present.

Lesley Griffiths: Mae’r ffaith bod pob pâr cymwys eisoes yn cael dau gylch o driniaeth IVF ar y GIG yng Nghymru yn gadarnhaol iawn, yn enwedig o gymharu hynny â’r amrywiad rhanbarthol sylweddol sy’n bodoli mewn mannau eraill yn y DU. Hoffem gynnig tri chylch o IVF i bobl yng Nghymru, yn unol, fel y dywedwch, ag argymhellion NICE. Fodd bynnag, mae angen inni weithio gyda’r GIG yng Nghymru, a chyda Sefydliad Cymru dros Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol, i reoli blaenoriaethau croes a phenderfynu sut y caiff yr arian ei wario. Mae’n rhywbeth y mae’r GIG yng Nghymru yn ei ystyried yn rheolaidd ar hyn o bryd.

 

David Rees: What progress is being made on the development of the IVF facility at Neath Port Talbot Hospital, and can you indicate what discussions have taken place with the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority in relation to licensing for that facility?

David Rees: Pa gynnydd sy’n cael ei wneud o ran datblygu’r cyfleuster IVF yn Ysbyty Castell-nedd Port Talbot, ac a allwch ddweud pa drafodaethau sydd wedi’u cynnal gyda’r Awdurdod Ffrwythloni Dynol ac Embryoleg mewn perthynas â thrwyddedu ar gyfer y cyfleuster hwnnw?

 

Lesley Griffiths: Just this morning I met Paul Roberts, the chief executive of Abertawe Bro Morgannwg University Local Health Board, about the new provision that we are having in Neath Port Talbot Hospital. The building will be handed over completed at the end of this month. However, what is critical—and I was pleased to have assurance from Paul on this matter this morning—is that the staff are in place, because we need high-quality staff to ensure the success of the unit. He assured me that an experienced embryologist has been appointed. In relation to discussions with HFEA, the next step will be to get the licence. Once the building has been handed over, there will have to be meetings and the panel will have to sit in respect of the licence. However, discussions are ongoing between officials and ABMU LHB at present.

Lesley Griffiths: Dim ond y bore yma y cyfarfûm â Paul Roberts, prif weithredwr Bwrdd Iechyd Lleol Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg, i drafod y ddarpariaeth newydd rydym yn ei chael yn Ysbyty Castell-nedd Port Talbot. Caiff yr adeilad ei drosglwyddo wedi’i gwblhau ddiwedd y mis. Fodd bynnag, mae’n hanfodol—ac rwy’n falch o gael sicrwydd gan Paul o ran y mater hwn y bore yma—bod y staff ar waith, oherwydd mae angen staff o ansawdd uchel arnom i sicrhau llwyddiant yr uned. Rhoddodd sicrwydd imi fod embryolegydd profiadol wedi’i benodi. Mewn perthynas â thrafodaethau â HFEA, y cam nesaf fydd cael y drwydded. Unwaith y bydd yr adeilad wedi’i drosglwyddo, bydd yn rhaid cynnal cyfarfodydd a bydd yn rhaid i’r panel eistedd mewn perthynas â’r drwydded. Fodd bynnag, mae trafodaethau yn mynd rhagddynt rhwng swyddogion a Bwrdd Iechyd Lleol Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg ar hyn o bryd.

 

Angela Burns: I quite understand the issue of competing priorities, but I would like to speak up for people who are unable to get any treatment at all, and those are people who need donated eggs. Some of my constituents have had leukaemia, for example, and do not have any eggs of their own. However, there is a shortage of donated eggs in Wales, and they are having a real job in getting through the NHS gatekeepers to be able to access services, literally just over the border, where eggs are available through different centres. Therefore, these people are being denied any opportunity to have even one IVF cycle. Would you care to look at this issue, because not being able to have this opportunity impacts on so many people’s emotional wellbeing?

Angela Burns: Deallaf y mater yn ymwneud â blaenoriaethau croes, ond hoffwn siarad ar ran y bobl na allant gael unrhyw driniaeth o gwbl, sef y rheini y mae angen wyau a roddwyd arnynt. Mae rhai o’m hetholwyr wedi cael lewcemia, er enghraifft, ac nid oes ganddynt wyau eu hunain. Fodd bynnag, mae prinder wyau a roddwyd yng Nghymru, ac maent yn cael trafferth wirioneddol wrth geisio goresgyn rhwystrau yn y GIG i’w galluogi i gael gafael ar wasanaethau, yn llythrennol ychydig dros y ffin, lle mae wyau ar gael drwy ganolfannau gwahanol. Felly, nid yw’r bobl hyn yn cael unrhyw gyfle i gael hyd yn oed un cylch IVF. A fyddech cystal ag ystyried y mater hwn, oherwydd mae peidio â rhoi’r cyfle hwn yn effeithio ar les emosiynol cynifer o bobl?

 

Lesley Griffiths: You raise a very important point. It is a detailed question, and I will look into it and then write to you.

Lesley Griffiths: Rydych wedi codi pwynt pwysig iawn. Mae’n gwestiwn manwl, a byddaf yn ei ystyried ac yna’n ysgrifennu atoch.

 

The Leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats (Kirsty Williams): We have seen recent figures that show that a growing number of women have to travel outside of Wales for IVF treatment. These are women who would previously have been treated at the centre in Swansea or in Cardiff. What steps is the Government taking to ensure that women from south Wales do not have to travel such great distances to receive this treatment?

Arweinydd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru (Kirsty Williams): Rydym wedi gweld ffigurau diweddar sy’n dangos bod nifer cynyddol o fenywod yn gorfod teithio y tu allan i Gymru i gael triniaeth IVF. Byddai’r menywod hyn wedi cael eu trin yn flaenorol yn y ganolfan yn Abertawe neu yng Nghaerdydd. Pa gamau y mae’r Llywodraeth yn eu cymryd i sicrhau nad yw menywod o dde Cymru yn gorfod teithio pellteroedd mawr o’r fath i gael y driniaeth hon?

 

Lesley Griffiths: You will have heard me say in my answer to David Rees that we are getting very close to the completion of the unit at Neath Port Talbot Hospital and then applying for the licence from HFEA, which will ensure that we have two centres in south Wales and will give us much more flexibility.

Lesley Griffiths: Byddwch wedi fy nghlywed yn dweud wrth ymateb i David Rees ein bod yn agosáu at gwblhau’r uned yn Ysbyty Castell-nedd Port Talbot, ac yna wneud cais am y drwydded gan HFEA, a fydd yn sicrhau bod gennym ddwy ganolfan yn ne Cymru ac yn rhoi llawer mwy o hyblygrwydd inni.

 

Kirsty Williams: Perhaps the Minister would be good enough to tell this Chamber when she expects that centre to go live. It is no coincidence that some 200 women have had to go to Bristol for treatment and approximately the same number of patients was receiving treatment at the Swansea centre when the Government made the strategic decision to end the contract in Swansea. As a direct result of that, women from south Wales have had to travel further for their treatment. When will those women be able to get treatment at the centre in Neath Port Talbot Hospital and what discussions is the Minister having to increase capacity at Cardiff, which is also causing problems for women in south Wales?

Kirsty Williams: Efallai y byddai’r Gweinidog cystal â dweud wrth y Siambr hon pryd y mae’n disgwyl y bydd y ganolfan yn weithredol. Nid yw’n gyd-ddigwyddiad bod tua 200 o fenywod wedi gorfod mynd i Fryste am driniaeth a bod tua’r un nifer o gleifion yn cael triniaeth yn y ganolfan yn Abertawe pan wnaethpwyd y penderfyniad strategol gan y Llywodraeth i ddod â’r contract i ben yn Abertawe. O ganlyniad uniongyrchol i hynny, mae merched o dde Cymru wedi gorfod teithio ymhellach i gael triniaeth. Pryd bydd y menywod hynny yn gallu cael triniaeth yn y ganolfan yn Ysbyty Castell-nedd Port Talbot a pha drafodaethau y mae’r Gweinidog yn eu cael i gynyddu capasiti ac yng Nghaerdydd, sydd hefyd yn peri problemau i fenywod yn ne Cymru?

 

Lesley Griffiths: We anticipate that patients will start to receive treatment in the Neath Port Talbot unit on 1 April next year. I am aware, as you are, of the difficulties in Cardiff. Part of the problem with the levels of activity that we have been able to have in Cardiff was due to restrictions placed on the unit by HFEA. However, as I said, I am very hopeful that, once the Neath Port Talbot unit goes live on 1 April, we will be able to address those issues.

Lesley Griffiths: Rydym yn rhagweld y bydd cleifion yn dechrau cael triniaeth yn uned Castell-nedd Port Talbot ar 1 Ebrill y flwyddyn nesaf. Rwy’n ymwybodol, fel y byddwch chithau, o’r anawsterau yng Nghaerdydd. Rhan o’r broblem o ran lefel y gweithgarwch y bu’n bosibl ei gyflawni yng Nghaerdydd oedd cyfyngiadau a osodwyd ar yr uned gan HFEA. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedais, fy ngobaith yw, unwaith y bydd uned Castell-nedd Port Talbot yn weithredol ar 1 Ebrill, y byddwn yn gallu mynd i’r afael â’r materion hynny.

Cyllido Ymatebwyr Cymunedau yn Gyntaf

Funding for Community First Responders

3. William Graham: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gyllido Ymatebwyr Cymunedau yn Gyntaf. OAQ(4)0208(HSS)

3. William Graham: Will the Minister make a statement on the funding of Community First Responders. OAQ(4)0208(HSS)

Lesley Griffiths: Funding arrangements for community first responders are the responsibility of the Welsh Ambulance Services NHS Trust.

Lesley Griffiths: Cyfrifoldeb Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Gwasanaethau Ambiwlans Cymru yw trefniadau ariannu ymatebwyr cyntaf cymunedol.

 

William Graham: Could you help me with a particular anomaly, which has been brought to my attention? First responders within the South Wales Fire and Rescue Service are funded, whereas volunteers, who are currently being recruited in Blackwood as community first responders, have to be funded by raising money publicly. Could you help me with that?

William Graham: A allech fy helpu gydag anghysondeb penodol y tynnwyd fy sylw ato? Caiff ymatebwyr cyntaf o fewn Gwasanaeth Tân ac Achub De Cymru eu hariannu, tra bod yn rhaid ariannu gwirfoddolwyr, sydd wrthi’n cael eu recriwtio yn y Coed Duon fel ymatebwyr cyntaf cymunedol, drwy godi arian cyhoeddus. A allech fy helpu gyda hynny?

 

Lesley Griffiths: There is a clear distinction between retained fire fighters, co-responders and community first responders. Community first responders are volunteers and are not paid. Fire service co-responders are retained firefighters and so they are funded at around £96 for each call-out.

Lesley Griffiths: Mae gwahaniaeth clir rhwng diffoddwyr tân wrth gefn, cyd-ymatebwyr ac ymatebwyr cyntaf cymunedol. Gwirfoddolwyr yw ymatebwyr cyntaf cymunedol ac ni chânt eu talu. Diffoddwyr tân wrth gefn yw cyd-ymatebwyr y gwasanaeth tân ac felly cânt eu hariannu ar sail tua £96 am bob galwad.

 

Peter Black: In relation to co-responders, there is an issue in Gower, in my region, where part-time firefighters are, in effect, spending more time as co-responders on behalf of the ambulance service than they are fighting fires. In some instances, they find that they have to wait over 45 minutes, on what are, in effect, category A calls, for ambulances to come and collect the patient and to deal with the emergency to which they have been called out. Have any of these issues been drawn to your attention and, if not, could you raise them with the ambulance trust?

Peter Black: O ran cyd-ymatebwyr, mae problem yn ardal Gŵyr, sef fy rhanbarth i, lle mae diffoddwyr tân rhan amser yn treulio mwy o amser mewn gwirionedd fel cyd-ymatebwyr ar ran y gwasanaeth ambiwlans nag y maent yn ymladd tân. Mewn rhai achosion, maent yn canfod bod yn rhaid iddynt aros dros 45 munud, yn ystod yr hyn sydd mewn gwirionedd yn alwadau categori A, am ambiwlans i ddod i gasglu’r claf ac i ddelio â’r argyfwng y cawsant eu galw iddo. A dynnwyd eich sylw at unrhyw un o’r materion hyn ac, os na wnaed hynny, a allech eu codi gyda’r ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans?

 

Lesley Griffiths: They have been drawn to my attention and many of the issues to which you refer have been resolved. The Welsh Ambulance Services NHS Trust held discussions with the fire service and co-responders on improving mobilisation times and then restricted use of calls categorised as immediately life-threatening, so I believe that they have been resolved.

Lesley Griffiths: Tynnwyd fy sylw atynt ac mae llawer o’r materion y cyfeiriwch atynt wedi’u datrys. Cynhaliodd Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Gwasanaethau Ambiwlans Cymru drafodaethau gyda’r gwasanaeth tân a chyd-ymatebwyr ar wella amserau mobileiddio ac yna ddefnydd cyfyngedig o alwadau a gaiff eu categoreiddio’n rhai sy’n peryglu bywyd, felly credaf eu bod wedi cael eu datrys.

Rhoi Gwaed

Donate Blood

4. Christine Chapman: Beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i annog rhagor o bobl yng Nghymru i roi gwaed. OAQ(4)0202(HSS)

4. Christine Chapman: What is the Welsh Government doing to encourage more people to donate blood in Wales. OAQ(4)0202(HSS)

Lesley Griffiths: Raising awareness of the importance of blood donation and the work of blood services is vital in encouraging new donors and persuading previous donors to donate again. We are supportive of the ongoing efforts of the blood services in Wales in raising awareness of this important issue.

Lesley Griffiths: Mae codi ymwybyddiaeth o bwysigrwydd rhoi gwaed a gwaith gwasanaethau gwaed yn hanfodol wrth annog rhoddwyr newydd a darbwyllo rhoddwyr blaenorol i roi eto. Rydym yn cefnogi ymdrechion parhaus y gwasanaethau gwaed yng Nghymru yn codi ymwybyddiaeth o’r mater pwysig hwn.

 

Christine Chapman: I welcome the steps that are being taken to modernise the service and to offer incentives for people to give blood. In the future, there will be an increased demand for blood, due to an ageing population, yet only 5% of the eligible population donates blood. There are reports that the number of young blood donors, those aged from 17 to 24, has fallen by 20% over the past decade, which has led to concerns of a generation gap in blood donation. What discussions are you having, Minister, with the Minister for Education and Skills on promoting and encouraging younger people to give blood?

Christine Chapman: Croesawaf y camau sy’n cael eu cymryd i foderneiddio’r gwasanaeth ac i gynnig cymhellion i bobl roi gwaed. Yn y dyfodol, bydd mwy o alw am waed, o ganlyniad i boblogaeth sy’n heneiddio, ond eto dim ond 5% o’r boblogaeth gymwys sy’n rhoi gwaed. Ceir adroddiadau bod nifer y rhoddwyr gwaed ifanc, sef y rheini rhwng 17 a 24 oed, wedi gostwng 20% dros y degawd diwethaf, sydd wedi arwain at bryderon am fwlch rhwng y cenedlaethau o ran rhoi gwaed. Pa drafodaethau ydych yn eu cael, Weinidog, gyda’r Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau ynghylch hyrwyddo ac annog pobl iau i roi gwaed?

 

Lesley Griffiths: I think that it is actually 6% of the eligible population in Wales that donates blood. Some give a few times and others give many times. There is always a need to refresh and maintain the number of donors; that is important. It is essential that new people register, and the issue you raise about young people is very important. There are some very good campaigns being run at the moment by blood services in Wales. NHS Blood and Transplant, which supplies north Wales, is running a campaign to generate 100,000 new donors in 100 days, which particularly focuses on attracting younger blood donors by involving young television soap stars and people from the world of fashion. The Welsh Blood Service has also been working to raise awareness of blood donation in primary schools through competitions and meeting sports stars, which builds up awareness in the very young. I hope that that will mean that more people sign up when they reach the age of 17.

Lesley Griffiths: Credaf mai 6% o’r boblogaeth gymwys yng Nghymru sy’n rhoi gwaed mewn gwirionedd. Mae rhai yn rhoi ychydig o weithiau ac eraill yn rhoi sawl gwaith. Mae angen adnewyddu a chynnal nifer y rhoddwyr bob amser; mae hynny’n bwysig. Mae’n hanfodol bod pobl newydd yn cofrestru, ac mae’r mater a godwch am bobl ifanc yn bwysig iawn. Mae rhai ymgyrchoedd da iawn yn cael eu cynnal ar hyn o bryd gan wasanaethau gwaed yng Nghymru. Mae Gwasanaeth Gwaed a Thrawsblaniadau’r GIG, sy’n cyflenwi gogledd Cymru, yn cynnal ymgyrch i geisio cael 100,000 o roddwyr newydd mewn 100 diwrnod, sy’n canolbwyntio’n benodol ar ddenu rhoddwyr gwaed iau drwy gynnwys sêr operâu sebon ifanc a phobl o fyd ffasiwn. Mae Gwasanaeth Gwaed Cymru hefyd wedi bod yn gweithio i godi ymwybyddiaeth o bwysigrwydd rhoi gwaed mewn ysgolion cynradd drwy gynnal cystadlaethau a chwrdd â sêr o’r byd chwaraeon, sy’n codi ymwybyddiaeth ymhlith pobl ifanc iawn. Rwy’n gobeithio y bydd hynny’n golygu y bydd mwy o bobl yn cofrestru pan fyddant yn troi’n 17 oed.

1.45 p.m.

Suzy Davies: The current rules prevent anyone who has received a blood transfusion or blood products since 1980, I think, or a long time ago, anyway, from donating blood, and that means that many who might want to give blood cannot do so. Given improved screening since then, would you discuss lifting this restriction with the UK Government, please, and reassure us that any ongoing concerns regarding contamination will not have any implications for the organ donation Bill?

Suzy Davies: Mae’r rheolau presennol yn atal unrhyw un sydd wedi cael trallwysiad gwaed neu gynhyrchion gwaed ers 1980, rwy’n credu, neu amser maith yn ôl, beth bynnag, rhag rhoi gwaed, ac mae hynny’n golygu na all llawer o bobl a all fod am roi gwaed wneud hynny. O ystyried prosesau sgrinio gwell ers hynny, a fyddech cystal â thrafod codi’r cyfyngiad hwn gyda Llywodraeth y DU, a rhoi sicrwydd inni na chaiff unrhyw bryderon parhaus ynghylch halogi unrhyw oblygiadau mewn perthynas â’r Bil rhoi organau?

 

Lesley Griffiths: Yes, I could discuss that. We receive our advice on screening from a committee that serves the whole of the UK. It has not been raised with me before, but I can certainly look at that.

Lesley Griffiths: Gwnaf, gallwn drafod hynny. Cawn ein cyngor ar sgrinio gan bwyllgor sy’n gwasanaethu’r DU gyfan. Ni chodwyd y mater hwn gyda mi o’r blaen, ond gallaf yn sicr ei ystyried.

 

Simon Thomas: As we move from a system of voluntary organ donation to one of presumed consent, do you feel the need to make an assessment and some kind of review of how people’s perceptions of giving blood voluntarily may change as the relationship around presumed consent on organ donation changes? It strikes me that people may have a different view of voluntary donation when you change the situation legally as regards organs. Does that concern you, and will you undertake at least to study that?

Simon Thomas: Wrth inni symud o system o roi organau’n wirfoddol i un o ganiatâd tybiedig, a ydych yn teimlo bod angen cynnal asesiad a rhyw fath o adolygiad o’r modd y gall canfyddiadau pobl o roi gwaed yn wirfoddol newid wrth i’r gydberthynas o ran caniatâd tybiedig ar gyfer rhoi organau newid? Ymddengys imi y gall fod gan bobl farn wahanol ynghylch rhoi’n wirfoddol pan fyddwch yn newid y sefyllfa’n gyfreithiol mewn perthynas ag organau. A yw hynny’n peri pryder ichi, ac a fyddwch yn cynnal o leiaf un astudiaeth?

 

Lesley Griffiths: It does concern me. You will be aware that I will be introducing the human transplantation (Wales) Bill to the Assembly next week. If it is raised with me, I will take it very seriously. I do not think that it was raised during the consultation, but I am working my way through those responses ready to bring the Bill forward. Therefore, that would concern me and I would seriously look at it.

Lesley Griffiths: Mae’n peri pryder imi. Byddwch yn ymwybodol y byddaf yn cyflwyno Bil trawsblaniadau dynol (Cymru) i’r Cynulliad yr wythnos nesaf. Os caiff ei godi gyda mi, byddaf yn ei gymryd o ddifrif. Ni chredaf iddo gael ei godi yn ystod yr ymgynghoriad, ond rwyf wrthi’n gweithio drwy’r ymatebion hynny er mwyn cyflwyno’r Bil ynghynt. Felly, byddai hynny’n peri pryder imi a hoffwn ei ystyried o ddifrif.

Gwasanaethau’r GIG yn y Gogledd

NHS Services in North Wales

5. Antoinette Sandbach: A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am ei chynlluniau ar gyfer gwasanaethau’r GIG yng Ngogledd Cymru. OAQ(4)0207(HSS)

5. Antoinette Sandbach: Will the Minister provide an update on her plans for NHS services in North Wales. OAQ(4)0207(HSS)

Lesley Griffiths: Yes, our plans and priorities for the health service for the whole of Wales can be found in our programme for government and 'Together for Health’.  

Lesley Griffiths: Gwnaf. Gellir gweld ein cynlluniau a’n blaenoriaethau ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd i Gymru gyfan yn ein rhaglen lywodraethu a 'Law yn Llaw at Iechyd’.

 

Antoinette Sandbach: Thank you for that answer, Minister. You will have read the comments from the Royal College of Nursing in Wales and from the British Medical Association that exporting level 3 neonatal services from north Wales over the border will increase infant mortality and lead to ân exodus of skilled doctors and nurses. Given the £19 million black hole in the health board’s budget, could you confirm how much of the decision to close north Wales’s neonatal intensive care level 3 service was driven by the need to fill that funding deficit?

Antoinette Sandbach: Diolch ichi am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Byddwch wedi darllen y sylwadau gan y Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol yng Nghymru a Chymdeithas Feddygol Prydain sy’n nodi y bydd allforio gwasanaethau newydd-enedigol lefel 3 o ogledd Cymru dros y ffin yn cynyddu nifer y marwolaethau ymhlith babanod ac yn golygu y bydd meddygon a nyrsys medrus yn symud i ffwrdd. O ystyried y twll du £19 miliwn yng nghyllideb y bwrdd iechyd, a allech gadarnhau faint o’r penderfyniad i gau gwasanaeth gofal dwys newydd-enedigol lefel 3 y gogledd oedd yn seiliedig ar yr angen i fynd i’r afael â’r diffyg ariannol hwnnw?

 

Lesley Griffiths: I do not think that it is driven by financial aspects at all. What is most important is that the services provided are safe, sustainable and of a high quality. I know that there are many issues of concern around the neonatal proposals of Betsi Cadwaladr University Local Health Board. We have only just reached the end of the consultation period. The board is looking at the responses, and I hope that it will address those concerns as we go through the process.

Lesley Griffiths: Ni chredaf ei fod yn seiliedig ar agweddau ariannol o gwbl. Yr hyn sydd bwysicaf yw bod y gwasanaethau a ddarperir yn ddiogel, yn gynaliadwy ac o ansawdd uchel. Gwn fod llawer o faterion o bryder ynghylch cynigion newydd-enedigol Bwrdd Iechyd Lleol Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr. Dim ond newydd ddod i ben y mae’r cyfnod ymgynghori. Mae’r Bwrdd yn ystyried yr ymatebion, a gobeithio y bydd yn mynd i’r afael â’r pryderon hynny wrth i’r broses fynd rhagddi.

 

Vaughan Gething: One of the challenges, not just in north Wales but across the rest of Wales, is how the NHS manages the interface between different branches of primary care, and there has been a particular experience recently in respect of the relationship between GPs and community pharmacies. One challenge is access to a common patient record and the IT platform needed to provide that. Can you confirm the current situation as regards actually reaching a position where there is this common platform, to enable the proper sharing of a patient’s records so that primary care services can talk to each other properly and achieve shared objectives?

Vaughan Gething: Un o’r heriau, nid yn unig yn y gogledd ond ar draws gweddill Cymru, yw’r modd y mae’r GIG yn rheoli’r rhyngwyneb rhwng canghennau gwahanol o ofal sylfaenol, a chafwyd profiad penodol yn ddiweddar o ran y gydberthynas rhwng meddygon teulu a fferyllfeydd cymunedol. Un her yw’r gallu i gael gafael ar gofnod cyffredinol ar gyfer cleifion a’r llwyfan TG sydd ei hangen i ddarparu hynny. A allwch gadarnhau’r sefyllfa bresennol o ran cyrraedd sefyllfa lle ceir llwyfan cyffredin o’r fath mewn gwirionedd, er mwyn gallu rhannu cofnodion cleifion yn briodol fel y gall gwasanaethau gofal sylfaenol siarad â’i gilydd yn briodol a chyflawni amcanion a rennir?

 

Lesley Griffiths: The interface that we want to see between secondary and primary care relies completely on the IT system in certain areas. It is important that we get this right. We have made a huge amount of progress, and you will have heard me say many times how important I think it is. The fact that we are rolling out the minor ailments scheme and that we have a pilot scheme starting in pharmacies—and people will have to be registered with a pharmacist in the same way as with the GP in order to take part—is important and is a key step forward. There is also My Health Online, which is an online system that patients can use to book appointments with their GP, to request repeat prescriptions, and to update their general details, for instance if they change address. It is important that we get as many patients as possible on to that system in a short space of time.

Lesley Griffiths: Mae’r rhyngwyneb rydym am ei weld rhwng gofal eilaidd a gofal sylfaenol yn dibynnu’n gyfan gwbl ar y system TG mewn meysydd penodol. Mae’n bwysig cael hyn yn iawn. Rydym wedi gwneud cynnydd enfawr, a byddwch wedi fy nghlywed droeon yn dweud pa mor bwysig yw hynny yn fy marn i. Mae’r ffaith ein bod yn cyflwyno’r cynllun mân anhwylderau a bod gennym gynllun peilot yn dechrau mewn fferyllfeydd—a bydd yn rhaid i bobl fod wedi’u cofrestru â fferyllydd yn yr un modd â meddyg teulu er mwyn cymryd rhan—yn bwysig ac yn gam allweddol ymlaen. Ceir hefyd Fy Iechyd Ar-lein, sy’n system ar-lein y gall cleifion ei defnyddio i drefnu apwyntiadau gyda’u meddyg teulu, er mwyn gwneud cais am bresgripsiynau ailadrodd, ac i ddiweddaru eu manylion cyffredinol, er enghraifft os ydynt yn newid cyfeiriad. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cael cymaint o gleifion ag y bo modd ar y system honno mewn cyfnod byr o amser.

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Weinidog, a ydych yn cytuno â bwrdd iechyd Betsi Cadwaladr sydd wedi mynegi gofidiau sylweddol am y trafferthion ar yr A55 yn ddiweddar ac effaith ddifrifol hynny ar wasanaethau iechyd ar draws y gogledd ac ar wasanaethau ambiwlans yn enwedig? Os ydych yn cytuno, onid yw hynny’n rheswm arall i gadw gwasanaethau gofal dwys i fabanod newydd-anedig yng ngogledd Cymru, yn hytrach na’u symud i ogledd-orllewin Lloegr?

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Minister, do you agree with the Betsi Cadwaladr health board, which has expressed significant concerns about the difficulties along the A55 recently and the serious impact of that on health services across north Wales and particularly on ambulance services? If you do agree, is that not another reason for retaining neonatal intensive care services in north Wales, rather than moving them to north-west England?

Lesley Griffiths: Severe weather obviously has an impact on people’s ability to get to work, on the ability of patients to access health services, and on the ambulances, as well. I have discussed it with my colleague, Carl Sargeant, but transport has to be looked at in relation to reconfiguration, and that has been done. When the reconfiguration plans come to me at the end of the process, I will also have to look very closely at that.

Lesley Griffiths: Mae tywydd difrifol yn amlwg yn effeithio ar allu pobl i fynd i’r gwaith, ar allu cleifion i gael gafael ar wasanaethau iechyd, yn ogystal â’r ambiwlansys. Rwyf wedi trafod y mater gyda’m cyd-Aelod, Carl Sargeant, ond mae’n rhaid ystyried cludiant mewn perthynas ag ad-drefnu, ac mae hynny wedi’i wneud. Pan gaf y cynlluniau ad-drefnu ar ddiwedd y broses, bydd yn rhaid imi hefyd ystyried hynny’n ofalus iawn.

 

Aled Roberts: Minister, in response to questions on 24 October, you indicated that you had asked for a review to be undertaken of the body mass index criteria for bariatric surgery. The Welsh Medical Committee minutes for the meeting on 20 July indicate that none of its recommendations in response to the obesity report had been addressed, which included a review of that BMI index and also the provision of a bariatric unit in north Wales. Are you committed to meeting the recommendations of that committee?   

Aled Roberts: Weinidog, mewn ymateb i gwestiynau ar 24 Hydref, dywedasoch eich bod wedi gofyn am adolygiad o’r meini prawf mynegai màs y corff ar gyfer llawdriniaeth bariatrig. Dengys cofnodion Pwyllgor Meddygol Cymru ar gyfer y cyfarfod ar 20 Gorffennaf nad aethpwyd i’r afael ag un o’i argymhellion mewn ymateb i’r adroddiad gordewdra, a oedd yn cynnwys adolygu’r mynegai BMI hwnnw a hefyd ddarparu uned bariatrig yng ngogledd Cymru. A ydych yn ymrwymedig i gyflawni argymhellion y pwyllgor hwnnw?

 

Lesley Griffiths: I mentioned to you that I have had discussions with the Welsh Institute for Health and Social Care about the criteria for BMI, because it needs to be looked at, as it is a very high bar. If bariatric surgery is what consultants say is the best thing for their patients, we need to be able to offer that service. I am also looking at the recommendations, and I will make an announcement in due course.

Lesley Griffiths: Soniais wrthych fy mod wedi cael trafodaethau ag Athrofa Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol Cymru ynglŷn â’r meini prawf ar gyfer BMI, gan fod angen ei ystyried. Os mai llawdriniaeth bariatrig yw’r peth gorau i’w cleifion ym marn ymgynghorwyr, mae angen inni allu cynnig y gwasanaeth hwnnw. Rwyf hefyd yn ystyried yr argymhellion, a byddaf yn gwneud cyhoeddiad maes o law.

 

Mark Drakeford: Minister, anyone following the news today will have seen the close attention being paid to the mental health debate to be held here in the Chamber later this afternoon. In north Wales, as in the rest of the country, plans for meeting the needs of mental health service users are vitally important. Will you join me in congratulating every one of the four Assembly Members who have sponsored today’s debate on doing so in a way that ensures that we are able to discuss mental ill health not as something that affects other people but as something that can touch the lives of any one of us in any part of Wales?

Mark Drakeford: Weinidog, bydd unrhyw un sy’n dilyn y newyddion heddiw wedi gweld y sylw manwl sy’n cael ei roi i’r ddadl ar iechyd meddwl a gynhelir yma yn y Siambr yn ddiweddarach y prynhawn yma. Yn y gogledd, fel yng ngweddill y wlad, mae cynlluniau ar gyfer diwallu anghenion defnyddwyr gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl yn hanfodol bwysig. A wnewch chi ymuno â mi i longyfarch pob un o’r pedwar Aelod Cynulliad sydd wedi noddi dadl heddiw am wneud hynny mewn ffordd sy’n sicrhau y gallwn drafod salwch meddwl, nid fel rhywbeth sy’n effeithio ar bobl eraill, ond fel rhywbeth a all gyffwrdd bywydau unrhyw un ohonom mewn unrhyw ran o Gymru?

 

Lesley Griffiths: Yes, I join you in that. I think that the four Members are extremely brave. We are addressing stigma and discrimination in relation to mental ill health and, sadly, they are alive and well in Wales, and we have to tackle that. We have a good story to tell, and by standing up and saying so in the Chamber, those four Members will do a great deal of good.

Lesley Griffiths: Gwnaf, ymunaf â chi i wneud hynny. Credaf fod y pedwar Aelod yn hynod o ddewr. Rydym yn mynd i’r afael â stigma a gwahaniaethu mewn perthynas â salwch meddwl ac, yn anffodus, maent yn fyw ac yn iach yng Nghymru, ac mae’n rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â hynny. Mae gennym stori dda i’w hadrodd, a thrwy sefyll i fyny a gwneud hynny yn y Siambr, bydd y pedwar Aelod hynny’n gwneud llawer iawn o les.

Ymddiriedolaeth Ambiwlans Cymru

The Welsh Ambulance Trust

6. Jocelyn Davies: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am ei blaenoriaethau ar gyfer Ymddiriedolaeth Ambiwlans Cymru. OAQ(4)0198(HSS)

6. Jocelyn Davies: Will the Minister make a statement on her priorities for the Welsh Ambulance Trust. OAQ(4)0198(HSS)

Lesley Griffiths: Yes, I expect the Welsh Ambulance Services NHS Trust to work in partnership with local health boards to deliver the best outcomes for patients who require their services.

Lesley Griffiths: Gwnaf, disgwyliaf i Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Gwasanaethau Ambiwlans Cymru weithio mewn partneriaeth â byrddau iechyd lleol i sicrhau’r canlyniadau gorau i gleifion y mae angen eu gwasanaethau arnynt.

 

Jocelyn Davies: Your manifesto pledged that if you were returned to office, ambulances would respond more quickly to patients suffering strokes, heart attacks and major trauma. Bearing in mind that Peter Black has just told us that emergency responders are waiting 45 minutes for ambulances to arrive at emergency events, can you demonstrate any progress on this pledge?

Jocelyn Davies: Roedd eich maniffesto’n addo, pe byddech yn cael eich ailethol, y byddai gwasanaethau ambiwlans yn ymateb yn gynt i gleifion sy’n dioddef strôc, trawiad ar y galon a thrawma difrifol. O gofio bod Peter Black newydd ddweud wrthym fod ymatebwyr brys yn aros 45 munud i ambiwlansys gyrraedd digwyddiadau brys, a allwch ddangos unrhyw gynnydd o ran yr addewid hwn?

 

Lesley Griffiths: Yes. It is very easy to knock the ambulances, and we often hear of times when people wait for far too long for ambulances. However, it is important that we recognise that the trust narrowly missed the 65% national target for the last four years, which is not good enough and we need to do more, and that is one of the reasons why I have announced a ministerial review of the Welsh ambulance NHS trust. It is facing increased pressure and we have only to look at the numbers to see that. There are factors such as our ageing population, increased demand levels, and lost ambulance hours, which have been reduced—it was raised yesterday in the Chamber, and I now have the figures in front of me, and we are making progress. However, it is important that we have this review, because there are areas that concern me, and I will be making an announcement about the review by the end of this week.

Lesley Griffiths: Gallaf. Mae’n hawdd iawn beirniadu’r ambiwlansys, ac rydym yn aml yn clywed am adegau pan fydd pobl yn aros llawer rhy hir am ambiwlans. Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cydnabod bod yr ymddiriedolaeth ond wedi methu o drwch blewyn â chyflawni’r targed cenedlaethol o 65% ar gyfer y pedair blynedd diwethaf. Nid yw hynny’n ddigon da, ac mae angen inni wneud mwy, ac mae hynny’n un o’r rhesymau pam rwyf wedi cyhoeddi adolygiad gweinidogol o ymddiriedolaeth GIG gwasanaethau ambiwlans Cymru. Mae’n wynebu pwysau cynyddol a dim ond edrych ar y ffigurau sydd angen inni ei wneud i weld hynny. Mae ffactorau megis ein poblogaeth sy’n heneiddio, galw cynyddol, ac oriau ambiwlans a gollwyd, sydd wedi lleihau—codwyd y mater hwnnw ddoe yn y Siambr, ac mae gennyf nawr y ffigurau o’m blaen, ac rydym yn gwneud cynnydd. Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cynnal yr adolygiad hwn, oherwydd mae meysydd sy’n peri pryder imi, a byddaf yn gwneud cyhoeddiad am yr adolygiad erbyn diwedd yr wythnos hon.

 

David Rees: Minister, we are all aware that ambulance performance figures are affected by delays in accident and emergency departments. What action is the Welsh Government taking to monitor the delivery of A&E services at hospitals to ensure that ambulances are not delayed unnecessarily, thus becoming temporarily unavailable to the trust?

David Rees: Weinidog, rydym i gyd yn ymwybodol bod oedi mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys yn effeithio ar ffigurau perfformiad gwasanaethau ambiwlans. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i fonitro gwasanaethau adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys mewn ysbytai er mwyn sicrhau na chaiff gwasanaethau ambiwlans eu hoedi’n ddiangen, a thrwy hynny nad ydynt ar gael dros dro i’r ymddiriedolaeth?

 

Lesley Griffiths: That is a very important issue, and we do not want to see ambulances being delayed because if they are outside A&E departments, they are not out there. That is continually monitored, and we will also look at that as part of the review.

Lesley Griffiths: Mae hwnnw’n fater pwysig iawn, ac nid ydym am weld gwasanaethau ambiwlans yn cael eu hoedi, oherwydd os ydynt y tu allan i adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys, ni allant wneud eu gwaith. Caiff hyn ei fonitro’n barhaus, a byddwn hefyd yn ystyried hynny fel rhan o’r adolygiad.

 

William Graham: Minister, I think that you have slightly missed the point of what we are trying to tell you. We have no complaint about the ambulance service itself. In fact, all Members here would pay tribute to the wonderful work that it does. Our concern is that you do not seem to give the trust adequate funds to respond to the targets that you have set.

William Graham: Weinidog, credaf eich bod wedi camddeall yr hyn rydym yn ceisio ei ddweud wrthych. Nid oes gennym unrhyw gwyn am y gwasanaeth ambiwlans ei hun. Yn wir, byddai pob Aelod yma yn talu teyrnged i’r gwaith gwych y mae’n ei wneud. Ein pryder yw yr ymddengys nad ydych yn rhoi digon o arian i’r ymddiriedolaeth i ymateb i’r targedau a osodwyd gennych.

 

Lesley Griffiths: As you are aware, the ambulance service receives its funding from the health boards, but I do want to look at this in the review, because there has been some criticism about the way in which it is funded. I recently made £10 million available for unscheduled care, of which £1 million has been given to the trust for the delivery of improvement proposals and to mitigate the increasing pressures that it faces.

Lesley Griffiths: Fel y gwyddoch, ariennir y gwasanaeth ambiwlans gan y byrddau iechyd, ond rwy’n awyddus i ystyried hyn yn yr adolygiad, oherwydd bu rhywfaint o feirniadaeth am y ffordd y caiff ei ariannu. Yn ddiweddar, dyrennais £10 miliwn ar gyfer gofal heb ei drefnu, y mae £1 filiwn ohono wedi’i roi i’r ymddiriedolaeth er mwyn cyflawni cynigion gwella a lleihau’r pwysau cynyddol a wynebir ganddi.

 

William Graham: Thank you for your answer, Minister, but the facts speak for themselves. In my region, not one of five authorities has 65% of calls responded to within eight minutes. In fact, in Torfaen, it was as bad as just over 50%. The situation is not improving. Your review is urgently needed. I urge you to make the recommendations from that available as soon as possible.

William Graham: Diolch ichi am eich ateb, Weinidog, ond mae’r ffeithiau’n siarad drostynt eu hunain. Yn fy rhanbarth i, nid ymatebir i 65% o’r galwadau o fewn wyth munud yn unrhyw un o’r pum awdurdod. Yn wir, yn Nhor-faen, roedd cynddrwg â dim ond ychydig dros 50%. Nid yw’r sefyllfa’n gwella. Mae angen eich adolygiad ar fyrder. Fe’ch anogaf i gyhoeddi’r argymhellion cyn gynted ag y bo modd.

 

Lesley Griffiths: Yes, I agree, and that is why I have set up the ministerial review. I received the terms of reference to look at today. I am in the process of appointing the chair, and I hope to make a statement within the next 24 hours. Many aspects of the ambulance service will need to be looked at within those terms of reference.

Lesley Griffiths: Rwy’n cytuno, a dyna pam rwyf wedi sefydlu adolygiad gweinidogol. Cefais y cylch gorchwyl i’w ddarllen heddiw. Rwyf yn y broses o benodi’r cadeirydd, a gobeithiaf wneud datganiad o fewn y 24 awr nesaf. Bydd angen edrych ar sawl agwedd ar y gwasanaeth ambiwlans o fewn y cylch gorchwyl hwnnw.

 

Kirsty Williams: Figures released today show that the ambulance trust has missed its targets for the fifth month in a row. The Welsh average is now less than 60% of calls being responded to within eight minutes. The lowest figure is in the constituency of the First Minister himself, where only 50% of ambulances meet their target response time. In answer to Jocelyn Davies, you said that you were making progress. Can you explain exactly where, given that you have missed your own targets for five months in a row?

Kirsty Williams: Mae ffigurau a ryddhawyd heddiw yn dangos bod yr ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans wedi methu â chyflawni ei thargedau am y pumed mis yn olynol. Mae canran gyfartalog y galwadau yr ymatebir iddynt o fewn wyth munud bellach yn llai na 60% yng Nghymru. Mae’r ffigur isaf yn etholaeth y Prif Weinidog ei hun, lle mai dim ond 50% o’r ambiwlansys sy’n cyrraedd eu hamser ymateb targed. Mewn ymateb i Jocelyn Davies, dywedasoch eich bod yn gwneud cynnydd. A allwch esbonio ble yn union, o ystyried eich bod wedi methu â chyflawni eich targedau eich hun am bum mis yn olynol?

 

Lesley Griffiths: I think that we have to recognise that the majority of patients are reached by an ambulance within the target times, despite the fact that the service receives 30,000 calls every month. That is to be encouraged and the service is to be congratulated on the fact that the majority of patients are reached within the target time. You need to look at this in context rather than take it out of context. I have said that I am concerned about the performance in parts, and that is why I have set up the review.

Lesley Griffiths: Credaf fod yn rhaid inni gydnabod bod ambiwlans yn cyrraedd y rhan fwyaf o gleifion o fewn yr amserau targed, er gwaethaf y ffaith bod y gwasanaeth yn derbyn 30,000 o alwadau bob mis. Mae hynny i’w hannog a dylid llongyfarch y gwasanaeth am y ffaith ei fod yn cyrraedd y mwyafrif o gleifion o fewn yr amser targed. Mae angen ichi ystyried hyn yn ei gyd-destun. Rwyf wedi dweud fy mod yn pryderu am agweddau ar berfformiad, a dyna pam rwyf wedi sefydlu’r adolygiad.

Blaenoriaethau (Gorllewin Cymru)

Priorities (West Wales)

7. Paul Davies: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am ei blaenoriaethau ar gyfer gorllewin Cymru ar gyfer y deuddeg mis nesaf. OAQ(4)0196(HSS)

7. Paul Davies: Will the Minister make a statement on her priorities for west Wales for the next twelve months. OAQ(4)0196(HSS)

Lesley Griffiths: Our plans and priorities for the health service for the whole of Wales can be found in our programme for government and 'Together for Health’.

Lesley Griffiths: Gellir gweld ein cynlluniau a’n blaenoriaethau ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd i Gymru gyfan yn ein rhaglen lywodraethu a 'Law yn Llaw at Iechyd’.

 

Paul Davies: I am sure that one of your priorities, Minister, is to ensure that NHS services are running effectively at all times and that includes the out-of-hours GP service. I have been contacted recently by a constituent regarding lengthy delays and waits at the out-of-hours service in north Pembrokeshire. It is an essential service for elderly and vulnerable people, especially in rural areas. Therefore, can you tell us what the Welsh Government is doing to improve the current out-of-hours service, especially in rural areas? Can you outline what regular reviews your Government undertakes to ensure that the effectiveness of the service is properly tested?

Paul Davies: Rwy’n siŵr mai un o’ch blaenoriaethau, Weinidog, yw sicrhau bod gwasanaethau’r GIG yn cael eu rhedeg yn effeithiol bob amser ac mae hynny’n cynnwys gwasanaethau meddygon teulu y tu allan i oriau. Cysylltodd etholwr â mi yn ddiweddar ynglŷn ag oedi ac amseroedd aros hir yn y gwasanaeth y tu allan i oriau yng ngogledd Sir Benfro. Mae’n wasanaeth hanfodol i bobl oedrannus ac agored i niwed, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Felly, a allwch ddweud wrthym beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru’n ei wneud i wella’r gwasanaeth y tu allan i oriau presennol, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd gwledig? A allwch amlinellu pa adolygiadau rheolaidd mae eich Llywodraeth yn ymrwymo i’w cynnal i sicrhau y caiff effeithiolrwydd y gwasanaeth ei brofi’n briodol?

 

Lesley Griffiths: Yes, the out-of-hours service is very important. You will be aware that I recently held a review of the service, the results of which I am currently considering. I am not aware of this specific issue, but if you want to write to me about it I will look into it.

Lesley Griffiths: Gwnaf. Mae’r gwasanaeth y tu allan i oriau yn bwysig iawn. Byddwch yn ymwybodol fy mod wedi cynnal adolygiad o’r gwasanaeth yn ddiweddar, ac rwyf wrthi’n ystyried canlyniadau’r adolygiad hwnnw. Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o’r mater penodol hwn, ond os hoffech ysgrifennu ataf yn ei gylch, bydd yn ymchwilio iddo.

 

Elin Jones: Minister, in the past, Government policy has been subject to a rural-proofing exercise before final decision and implementation. If health reconfiguration proposals for west Wales or any other area of Wales are referred to the Welsh Government, will it be rural-proofing them before you take your final decision?

Elin Jones: Weinidog, yn y gorffennol, mae polisi’r Llywodraeth wedi bod yn destun ymarfer prawfesur gwledig cyn gwneud penderfyniad terfynol a gweithredu. Os cyfeirir cynigion ad-drefnu iechyd ar gyfer y gorllewin neu unrhyw ran arall o Gymru at Lywodraeth Cymru, a fyddant yn destun ymarfer prawfesur gwledig cyn y byddwch yn gwneud eich penderfyniad terfynol?

 

Lesley Griffiths: Yes, that would have to be taken into consideration at the end of the process.

Lesley Griffiths: Byddai’n rhaid ystyried hynny ar ddiwedd y broses.

 

William Powell: I recently received a petition from the people of Tenby as part of their attempt to prevent the closure of the minor injuries unit at Tenby hospital. Minister, I am sure that you would agree that the work of such units contributes greatly to the work of the local health service, particularly when district general hospitals are particularly sparse in that part of Wales. Would you consider accepting an invitation to visit the minor injuries unit at Tenby to see the work going on there and to gain a wider understanding of its importance?

William Powell: Cefais ddeiseb gan drigolion Dinbych y Pysgod yn ddiweddar fel rhan o’u hymgais i atal yr uned mân anafiadau yn ysbyty Dinbych y Pysgod rhag cael ei chau. Weinidog, rwy’n siŵr y byddech yn cytuno bod gwaith unedau o’r fath yn cyfrannu’n fawr at waith y gwasanaeth iechyd lleol, yn enwedig pan fo ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth yn arbennig o brin yn y rhan honno o Gymru. A fyddech yn ystyried derbyn gwahoddiad i ymweld â’r uned mân anafiadau yn Ninbych y Pysgod i weld y gwaith sy’n cael ei wneud yno a chael dealltwriaeth ehangach o’i phwysigrwydd?

 

Lesley Griffiths: Yes. Depending on diary commitments, I would certainly consider that. Minor injuries units certainly play a very important part in the health service. I recently visited Barry MIU and was blown away by the work undertaken there. I was launching the Choose Well application when I was there. It is about making sure that people are aware of the variety of services, rather than just rushing to A&E. If A&E is what they need, that is fine, but MIUs have a huge part to play within the whole of the NHS in Wales.

Lesley Griffiths: Byddwn. Yn dibynnu ar ymrwymiadau’r dyddiadur, byddwn yn sicr yn ystyried hynny. Mae unedau mân anafiadau yn sicr yn chwarae rhan bwysig iawn yn y gwasanaeth iechyd. Ymwelais ag Uned Mân Anafiadau y Barri ddiweddar a chefais fy syfrdanu gan y gwaith sy’n cael ei wneud yno. Roeddwn yn lansio’r rhaglen Dewis Doeth pan oeddwn yno. Mae’n ymwneud â sicrhau bod pobl yn ymwybodol o’r amrywiaeth o wasanaethau sydd ar gael, yn hytrach na rhuthro i adran Damweiniau ac Achosion Brys yn syth. Os oes angen mynd i uned Damweiniau ac Achosion brys arnynt, yna digon teg, ond mae gan Unedau Mân Anafiadau ran enfawr i’w chwarae yn y GIG cyfan yng Nghymru.

2.00 p.m.

Dwyrain De Cymru

South Wales East

8. Mohammad Asghar: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am ei blaenoriaethau ar gyfer iechyd yn Nwyrain De Cymru. OAQ(4)0194(HSS)

8. Mohammad Asghar: Will the Minister make a statement on her priorities for health in South Wales East. OAQ(4)0194(HSS)

Lesley Griffiths: Our plans and priorities for the health service for the whole of Wales can be found in our programme for government and 'Together for Health’.

Lesley Griffiths: Gellir gweld ein cynlluniau a’n blaenoriaethau ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd i Gymru gyfan yn ein rhaglen lywodraethu a 'Law yn Llaw at Iechyd’.

 

Mohammad Asghar: Thank you for that answer, Minister. It is estimated that alcohol-related illness costs the NHS in Gwent around £15 million. According to the Office for National Statistics, 67 people in Gwent died alcohol-related deaths in 2010. Alcohol is also a contributory factor in illnesses such as heart disease, liver disease, stroke and some forms of cancer. Does the Minister agree that reliance on alcohol is as much a risk to health as smoking? What is the Welsh Government doing to increase public awareness of this risk?

Mohammad Asghar: Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Amcangyfrifir bod salwch sy’n gysylltiedig ag alcohol yn costio tua £15 miliwn i’r GIG yng Ngwent. Yn ôl y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol, bu farw 67 o bobl yng Ngwent o salwch oedd yn gysylltiedig ag alcohol yn 2010. Mae alcohol hefyd yn ffactor sy’n cyfrannu at afiechydon fel clefyd y galon, clefyd yr iau/afu, strôc a rhai mathau o ganser. A yw’r Gweinidog yn cytuno bod dibyniaeth ar alcohol yr un mor beryglus i iechyd ag ysmygu? Beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i godi ymwybyddiaeth y cyhoedd o’r risg hon?

 

Lesley Griffiths: Yes, I agree. You may be aware that last week was Alcohol Awareness Week and we did a great deal to promote that within Government and out there in the service. It is something that we need to make people aware of. We are trying to say now that people have to take responsibility for their own health, but they have to have the facts about the damage that alcohol can do. We are doing that through a variety of public health campaigns.

Lesley Griffiths: Cytunaf. Efallai y byddwch yn ymwybodol o ymgyrch Wythnos Ymwybyddiaeth Alcohol a gynhaliwyd yr wythnos ddiwethaf, a gwnaethom gryn dipyn i hyrwyddo hynny o fewn Llywodraeth a’r gwasanaeth. Mae’n rhywbeth y mae angen inni wneud pobl yn ymwybodol ohono. Rydym yn ceisio dweud nawr bod yn rhaid i bobl gymryd cyfrifoldeb dros eu hiechyd eu hunain, ond mae’n rhaid iddynt gael y ffeithiau am y niwed y gall alcohol ei achosi. Rydym yn gwneud hynny drwy amrywiaeth o ymgyrchoedd iechyd y cyhoedd.

 

Lindsay Whittle: Minister, due to the decision to place a critical injuries unit at Llanfrechfa Grange near Cwmbran, what plans are there to ensure that adequate facilities remain to treat those with learning difficulties and disabilities requiring continuous healthcare?

Lindsay Whittle: Weinidog, oherwydd y penderfyniad i sefydlu uned anafiadau critigol yn Llanfrechfa Grange ger Cwmbrân, pa gynlluniau sydd ar waith i sicrhau bod cyfleusterau digonol yn parhau i drin y rheiny ag anawsterau dysgu ac anableddau y mae angen gofal iechyd parhaus arnynt?

 

Lesley Griffiths: That is a very specific question and I will to write to the Member with the answer.

Lesley Griffiths: Mae hwnnw’n gwestiwn penodol iawn ac ysgrifennaf at yr Aelod gyda’r ateb.

Anghydraddoldebau Iechyd

Health Inequalities

9. Kenneth Skates: A wnaiff y Gweinidog amlinellu cynlluniau Llywodraeth Cymru i fynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebau iechyd yng ngogledd Cymru. OAQ(4)0197(HSS)

9. Kenneth Skates: Will the Minister outline the Welsh Government’s plans to tackle health inequalities in north Wales. OAQ(4)0197(HSS)

Lesley Griffiths: The importance of reducing health inequalities is highlighted in our five-year vision for the NHS in Wales, 'Together for Health’. We are committed to achieving this through our 'Fairer Health Outcomes for All’ national action plan. Local health boards are also taking forward local action for tackling health inequalities.

Lesley Griffiths: Amlygir pwysigrwydd lleihau anghydraddoldebau iechyd yn ein gweledigaeth bum mlynedd ar gyfer y GIG yng Nghymru, 'Law yn Llaw at Iechyd’. Rydym yn ymrwymedig i gyflawni hyn drwy ein cynllun gweithredu cenedlaethol, 'Canlyniadau Iechyd Tecach i Bawb’. Mae byrddau iechyd lleol hefyd yn cymryd camau gweithredu lleol i fynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebau iechyd.

 

Kenneth Skates: Minister, like you and other Ministers, I am concerned that if we do not get more people walking and cycling in their communities, it will not only become a transport problem, but it will have a knock-on impact on the health profile of Wales. Minister, what efforts are you making with the Minister for transport to increase the number of people walking and cycling in Wales? What steps are you taking collectively to strengthen the active travel Bill to achieve these aims?

Kenneth Skates: Weinidog, fel chi a Gweinidogion eraill, rwy’n pryderu os na allwn annog mwy o bobl i gerdded a beicio yn eu cymunedau, nid yn unig y daw’n broblem trafnidiaeth, ond caiff effaith ganlyniadol ar broffil iechyd Cymru. Weinidog, pa ymdrechion rydych yn eu gwneud gyda’r Gweinidog Trafnidiaeth i gynyddu nifer y bobl sy’n cerdded ac yn beicio yng Nghymru? Pa gamau rydych yn eu cymryd ar y cyd i atgyfnerthu’r Bil teithio byw er mwyn cyflawni’r nodau hyn?

 

Lesley Griffiths: The active travel (Wales) Bill is due for introduction in early 2013 and this Bill will put a much greater emphasis on walking and cycling as modes of transport. It will place new duties on local authorities and the Welsh Government in order to make it safer and easier for people to incorporate active travel into their daily lives. Obviously, I do have discussions with Carl Sargeant in relation to this. I think that the programme will be very cross-cutting across Government and will probably involve most departments. We have also invested significant amounts of funding to improve provision for pedestrians and cyclists and the Bill will reinforce the aims of the expenditure. Within my own department, I have a corporate health standard and the small workplace health awards, which includes employers who encourage their staff to walk or cycle to work or to go out in their lunch break and take part in some physical activity.

Lesley Griffiths: Disgwylir i Fil Teithio Byw (Cymru) gael ei gyflwyno ar ddechrau 2013 a bydd y Bil hwn yn rhoi llawer mwy o bwyslais ar gerdded a beicio fel dulliau trafnidiaeth. Bydd yn gosod dyletswyddau newydd ar awdurdodau lleol a Llywodraeth Cymru er mwyn ei gwneud yn fwy diogel ac yn haws i bobl ymgorffori teithio byw i mewn i’w bywydau bob dydd. Yn amlwg, rwy’n cael trafodaethau â Carl Sargeant mewn perthynas â hyn. Credaf y bydd y rhaglen yn drawsbynciol iawn ar draws Llywodraeth ac mae’n debygol y bydd yn cynnwys y rhan fwyaf o’r adrannau. Rydym hefyd wedi buddsoddi symiau sylweddol o arian i wella’r ddarpariaeth i gerddwyr a beicwyr a bydd y Mesur yn atgyfnerthu nodau’r gwariant. O fewn fy adran fy hun, mae gennyf safon iechyd gorfforaethol a gwobrau iechyd y gweithle bach, sy’n cynnwys cyflogwyr sy’n annog eu staff i gerdded neu feicio i’r gwaith neu i fynd allan yn ystod eu hegwyl ginio a chymryd rhan mewn rhyw fath o weithgarwch corfforol.

 

The Presiding Officer: Janet Finch-Saunders.

Y Llywydd: Janet Finch-Saunders.

 

Janet Finch-Saunders: Hi. [Laughter.]  Sorry, I was busy doing casework there.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Helo. [Chwerthin.] Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, roeddwn yn brysur yn gwneud gwaith achos.

 

In light of a statement about health equalities in north Wales, will you provide some clarification around the current downgrading that is taking place in Llandudno General Hospital? I am talking about the endoscopy unit that Darren Millar AM and I visited last July. We saw the plans for expansion and redevelopment, only to find, after vast sums of taxpayers’ money have been spent, that the service has been completely withdrawn. Can you give reasons why downgrading is taking place at a time when the consultation process is, technically, still ongoing?

Yng ngoleuni’r datganiad am gydraddoldebau iechyd yn y gogledd, a wnewch chi roi rhywfaint o eglurhad ynghylch y gwaith israddio sy’n mynd rhagddo yn Ysbyty Cyffredinol Llandudno ar hyn o bryd? Rwy’n sôn am yr uned endosgopi yr ymwelodd Darren Millar AC a minnau â hi fis Gorffennaf diwethaf. Gwelsom y cynlluniau ar gyfer ehangu ac ailddatblygu, dim ond i ganfod, ar ôl gwario symiau enfawr o arian y trethdalwr, fod y gwasanaeth wedi cael ei ddiddymu’n llwyr. A allwch roi rhesymau pam mae gwaith israddio’n cael ei wneud ar adeg pan fo’r broses ymgynghori, i bob pwrpas, yn dal yn mynd rhagddi?

 

Lesley Griffiths: You will have heard me say many times that I do not want to see any downgrading. What I want to see at the end of the reconfiguration is better services for everybody, and I am sure that that will be considered as part of Betsi Cadwaldr LHB’s plans.

Lesley Griffiths: Byddwch wedi fy nghlywed yn dweud droeon nad wyf am weld unrhyw israddio. Yr hyn rwyf am ei weld ar ddiwedd yr ad-drefnu yw gwasanaethau gwell i bawb, ac rwy’n siŵr y caiff hynny ei ystyried fel rhan o gynlluniau BILl Betsi Cadwaladr.

Brycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed

Brecon and Radnorshire

10. Kirsty Williams: Pa gamau y mae’r Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i wella gwasanaethau iechyd ym Mrycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed. OAQ(4)0203(HSS)

10. Kirsty Williams: What steps is the Minister taking to improve health services in Brecon and Radnorshire. OAQ(4)0203(HSS)

Lesley Griffiths: Our plans and priorities for the health service for the whole of Wales can be found in our programme for government and 'Together for Health’.

Lesley Griffiths: Gellir gweld ein cynlluniau a’n blaenoriaethau ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd i Gymru gyfan yn ein rhaglen lywodraethu a 'Law yn Llaw at Iechyd’.

Kirsty Williams: One step that the Welsh Government could take to improve services is to agree the capital funding for work at the Llandrindod Wells County War Memorial Hospital, which would allow more Radnorshire people to be treated within the county and save Powys LHB money, which is relevant given the projected overspend on its budget. Will the Minister give us an update on whether she is minded to approve those capital bids?

Kirsty Williams: Un cam y gallai Llywodraeth Cymru ei gymryd i wella gwasanaethau yw cytuno ar gyllid cyfalaf ar gyfer gwaith yn Ysbyty Coffa Llandrindod, a fyddai’n galluogi mwy o bobl yn Sir Faesyfed i gael eu trin o fewn y sir ac yn arbed arian i BILl Powys, sy’n berthnasol o ystyried y gorwariant a ragwelir ar ei gyllideb. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni ynghylch a yw o blaid cymeradwyo’r ceisiadau cyfalaf hynny?

 

Lesley Griffiths: We are currently in the normal business case-approval process for a strategic outline case that seeks approval for capital expenditure of £5.537 million for the reconfiguration of departments in Llandrindod Wells hospital and its adjacent properties.

Lesley Griffiths: Rydym ar hyn o bryd yn y broses cymeradwyo achosion busnes arferol ar gyfer achos amlinellol strategol sy’n ceisio cymeradwyaeth ar gyfer gwariant cyfalaf gwerth £5.537 miliwn ar gyfer ad-drefnu adrannau yn ysbyty Llandrindod a’i eiddo cyfagos.

 

Darren Millar: Brecon and Radnorshire are served by the Powys Teaching Local Health Board, which could face a deficit of up to £9 million, according to the Wales Audit Office report that was published last week. You have given assurances, as has the director general of the NHS in Wales, that all health boards will break even. How do you reconcile the Wales Audit Office report information with the comments that you have given that there will be no bail-outs and that every local health board will break even?

Darren Millar: Gwasanaethir Brycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed gan Fwrdd Iechyd Addysgu Lleol Powys, a allai wynebu diffyg o hyd at £9 miliwn, yn ôl adroddiad Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru a gyhoeddwyd yr wythnos ddiwethaf. Rydych wedi rhoi sicrwydd, fel y mae cyfarwyddwr cyffredinol y GIG yng Nghymru, y bydd pob bwrdd iechyd yn adennill eu costau. Sut ydych yn cysoni gwybodaeth adroddiad Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru gyda’r sylwadau a roddwyd gennych na fydd unrhyw gymorth ar gael ac y bydd pob bwrdd iechyd lleol yn adennill ei gostau?

 

Lesley Griffiths: You will be aware that, because of concerns around finance and performance, I asked for a mid-year review to be undertaken. That has now been completed by my director general and submitted to me. I am seeking clarification on some of the points in the review at present, and I will announce the outcome of the process next week.

Lesley Griffiths: Fel y gwyddoch, oherwydd pryderon am gyllid a pherfformiad, gofynnais am i adolygiad canol blwyddyn gael ei gynnal. Mae hwnnw bellach wedi cael ei gwblhau gan fy nghyfarwyddwr cyffredinol a’i gyflwyno imi. Rwyf wrthi’n ceisio cael eglurhad ar rai o’r pwyntiau yn yr adolygiad, a byddaf yn cyhoeddi canlyniad y broses yr wythnos nesaf.

 

Simon Thomas: Minister, I have raised previously with you the future of stroke services throughout the county of Powys, and there is a consultation at the moment on stroke support and the future of Bronllys Hospital. Many of the local residents feel that that consultation has been a little misleading and has particularly misled local people as regards the future relationship between Bronllys and Brecon as regards stroke services. If there is evidence that that consultation has not been undertaken in a fully open manner, would you support an extension to that period so that local people can have their say so that the decisions that are eventually taken are taken on the best clinical grounds and that people understand why those decisions have been taken?

Simon Thomas: Weinidog, rwyf eisoes wedi codi pryderon â chi ynghylch dyfodol gwasanaethau strôc ledled sir Powys, ac mae ymgynghoriad yn mynd rhagddo ar hyn o bryd ar gymorth strôc a dyfodol Ysbyty Bronllys. Mae llawer o’r trigolion lleol yn teimlo bod yr ymgynghoriad wedi bod ychydig yn gamarweiniol a’i fod wedi camarwain pobl leol yn enwedig o ran y gydberthynas rhwng Bronllys ac Aberhonddu yn y dyfodol o ran gwasanaethau strôc. Os oes tystiolaeth nad yw’r ymgynghoriad wedi’i gynnal mewn modd cwbl agored, a fyddech yn cefnogi cynnig i ymestyn y cyfnod hwnnw fel y gall pobl leol leisio eu barn er mwyn sicrhau bod y penderfyniadau a wneir yn y pen draw yn cael eu cymryd ar y sail glinigol orau a bod pobl yn deall pam mae’r penderfyniadau hynny wedi’u cymryd?

 

Lesley Griffiths: I am concerned to hear about that case. I know that the consultation is due to end on Friday, so, if that were the case, I would support it, but I would have to see proof of that. I know that the health board is developing plans to continue offering services from that site and to seek alternatives for some of the services in new accommodation.

Lesley Griffiths: Mae’r achos hwnnw yn peri pryder imi. Gwn y bydd yr ymgynghoriad yn dod i ben ddydd Gwener, felly, pe bai hynny’n wir, byddwn yn ei gefnogi, ond byddai’n rhaid imi weld tystiolaeth o hynny. Gwn fod y bwrdd iechyd yn datblygu cynlluniau i barhau i gynnig gwasanaethau o’r safle hwnnw ac i chwilio am ddewisiadau amgen ar gyfer rhai o’r gwasanaethau mewn adeilad newydd.

Dementia

Dementia

11. Mike Hedges: A wnaiff y Gweinidog amlinellu pa gyngor sydd wedi cael ei roi i adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys ysbytai ar ymdrin â chleifion sydd â dementia. OAQ(4)0193(HSS)

11. Mike Hedges: Will the Minister outline what advice has been given to hospital A&E departments on dealing with patients with dementia. OAQ(4)0193(HSS)

Lesley Griffiths: Accident and emergency departments are expected to follow National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence guidelines, which state that hospitals should plan and provide services that address the specific needs, both mental and physical, of people with dementia. Health boards are expected to implement intelligent targets for dementia, including improving the quality of general hospital care for people with dementia.

Lesley Griffiths: Disgwylir i adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys ddilyn canllawiau’r Sefydliad Cenedlaethol dros Iechyd a Rhagoriaeth Glinigol, sy’n datgan y dylai ysbytai gynllunio a darparu gwasanaethau sy’n diwallu anghenion penodol pobl â dementia, boed yn feddyliol neu’n gorfforol. Disgwylir i fyrddau iechyd bennu targedau deallus ar gyfer dementia, gan gynnwys gwella ansawdd y gofal cyffredinol a roddir i bobl â dementia mewn ysbytai.

 

Mike Hedges: One of the problems that exists at Morriston Hospital is that waiting times can be relatively long. I know of a dementia patient who has had to go there several times following accidents because she is also on warfarin and who gets very upset and anguished at having to wait for relatively long periods of time in order to be seen. Is it possible for people who are registered with dementia to be seen more swiftly in order to avoid that happening?

Mike Hedges: Un o’r problemau sy’n bodoli yn Ysbyty Treforys yw y gall amseroedd aros fod yn gymharol hir. Gwn am glaf â dementia sydd wedi gorfod mynd yno sawl gwaith yn dilyn damweiniau am ei bod hefyd ar warfarin ac sy’n gofidio ac yn pryderu’n fawr wrth orfod aros am gyfnodau cymharol hir o amser er mwyn cael ei gweld. A yw’n bosibl i bobl sydd wedi’u cofrestru â dementia gael eu gweld yn gynt er mwyn atal hynny rhag digwydd?

 

Lesley Griffiths: I accept that, for some individuals, agitation could be a problem and, in such instances, fast-tracking may well be helpful, but I would expect all people with dementia presenting at accident and emergency departments to be dealt with according to clinical need, as they should be throughout the hospital system. I know that we have had some schemes such as the Alzheimer’s butterfly scheme, which has been rolled out in several health boards, including Abertawe Bro Morgannwg LHB, which encourages staff to identify and manage all people with dementia more effectively and sympathetically. However, the most important thing is that patients are treated appropriately and with dignity.

Lesley Griffiths: Derbyniaf y gallai cynnwrf fod yn broblem i rai unigolion ac, mewn achosion o’r fath, efallai y byddai’n ddefnyddiol iddynt gael eu gweld yn gynt, ond byddwn yn disgwyl i bob person â dementia sy’n mynd i adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys gael eu trin yn unol ag angen clinigol, fel y dylid gwneud ym mhob rhan o’r system ysbytai. Gwn ein bod wedi cynnal rhai cynlluniau megis cynllun pili-pala clefyd Alzheimer, a gyflwynwyd mewn sawl bwrdd iechyd, gan gynnwys BILl Abertawe Bro Morgannwg, sy’n annog staff i nodi a rheoli pob person â dementia yn fwy effeithiol a chydymdeimladol. Fodd bynnag, y peth pwysicaf yw bod cleifion yn cael eu trin yn briodol a chydag urddas.

 

Nick Ramsay: Figures gathered last year by the Alzheimer’s Society highlighted the fact that only an estimated 37% of dementia sufferers in Wales are diagnosed, which means that an estimated 27,000 people in Wales are going undiagnosed, which is the worst figure among those of all of the UK nations. What are you doing to help improve the diagnosis rate of dementia sufferers in Wales, so that those sufferers can access treatment as soon as possible, which is better for their condition in the long term?

Nick Ramsay: Amlygodd ffigyrau a gasglwyd y llynedd gan y Gymdeithas Alzheimer y ffaith mai dim ond tua 37% o bobl â dementia yng Nghymru sy’n cael diagnosis o’r cyflwr, sy’n golygu nad yw tua 27,000 o bobl yng Nghymru yn cael diagnosis, sef y ffigur gwaethaf ymysg holl wledydd y DU. Beth ydych yn ei wneud i helpu i wella cyfraddau canfod dementia ymhlith pobl yng Nghymru, er mwyn sicrhau y gall y bobl hynny gael gafael ar driniaeth cyn gynted â phosibl, a hynny er budd eu cyflwr yn y tymor hir?

 

Lesley Griffiths: We are working to ensure that all health and social care staff are able to increase their skills and knowledge around dementia, so that people can get earlier diagnoses. We have also, as a Government, put a huge amount of money into building dementia units. On Monday, I opened the Ysbryd y Coed unit at Cefn Coed Hosiptal, which is ân £18.5 million capital-funded 60-bed unit. There is a unit at Wrexham Maelor Hospital and one at the University Hospital Llandough as well. Therefore, this is a priority for the Government.

Lesley Griffiths: Rydym yn gweithio i sicrhau bod pob aelod o staff iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yn gallu gwella ei sgiliau a’i wybodaeth am ddementia, fel y gall pobl gael diagnosis yn gynt. Rydym hefyd, fel Llywodraeth, wedi buddsoddi llawer iawn o arian yn adeiladu unedau dementia. Ddydd Llun, agorais uned Ysbryd y Coed yn Ysbyty Cefn Coed, sef uned gwerth £18.5 miliwn â 60 o welyau a ariennir gan gyfalaf. Mae uned yn Ysbyty Maelor Wrecsam ac un yn Ysbyty Athrofaol Llandochau hefyd. Felly, mae hyn yn flaenoriaeth i’r Llywodraeth.

Alun Ffred Jones: Mae’n amlwg ein bod yn wynebu anawsterau enfawr yn sgil niferoedd cynyddol y bobl sy’n dioddef o ddementia. A wnewch chi ymuno â mi i groesawu’r ganolfan newydd sydd ar fin agor yng Nghaernarfon, sef canolfan a fydd yn darparu gofal i ddioddefwyr dementia a’u teuluoedd, ac yn cynnig gofal hyblyg?

Alun Ffred Jones: It is obvious that we are facing huge difficulties given the increasing number of people suffering from dementia. Will you join me in welcoming the new centre that is about to open in Caernarfon, which will provide care for dementia sufferers and their families and which will offer flexible care?

Lesley Griffiths: Yes, indeed; I will join you in welcoming that. I just said that this is a priority for the Government, and it is important that we have the facilities. However, as I said when I opened Ysbryd y Coed on Monday, this is not just about bricks and mortar; it is about making sure that the services, and the people who work to provide them, are also there for people with dementia.

Lesley Griffiths: Yn wir; ymunaf â chi i groesawu hynny. Rwyf newydd ddweud bod hyn yn flaenoriaeth i’r Llywodraeth, ac mae’n bwysig bod gennym y cyfleusterau. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedais pan agorais Ysbryd y Coed ddydd Llun, mae hyn yn golygu mwy na brics a morter; mae’n golygu gwneud yn siŵr bod y gwasanaethau, a’r bobl sy’n gweithio i’w darparu, hefyd yno i bobl â dementia.

 

Eluned Parrot: Minister, Bradford Teaching Hospital has transformed two wards into a calming space to help those with dementia. It is also educating all staff members on dementia, with a target of getting everyone trained by the end of 2013. Sadly, it is still the case that some patients with dementia who are admitted for other reasons can be kept in accident and emergency bays for significant periods of time, which will leave them even more disoriented, distressed and confused. Will you pledge to look at the work at Bradford Teaching Hospital and see what lessons can be learned for Wales?

Parrot Eluned: Weinidog, mae Ysbyty Athrofaol Bradford wedi trawsnewid dwy ward yn fannau tawelu i helpu’r rheiny â dementia. Mae hefyd yn addysgu pob aelod o staff ar ddemensia, gyda tharged o sicrhau bod pawb wedi’u hyfforddi erbyn diwedd 2013. Yn anffodus, gall rhai cleifion â dementia sy’n cael eu derbyn am resymau eraill orfod aros mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys am gyfnodau sylweddol o amser o hyd, a fydd yn eu gadael hyd yn oed yn fwy gofidus a dryslyd. A wnewch chi addo ystyried y gwaith yn Ysbyty Addysgu Bradford er mwyn gweld pa wersi y gellir eu dysgu yng Nghymru?

 

Lesley Griffiths: Certainly, I will have a look at what is happening in Bradford. When I opened the Ysbryd y Coed unit on Monday, I felt that the attention to detail was amazing. There were three oval units with colour-coded flooring, so that people did not get disoriented if they did wander off. Apparently, using colours in this way can help draw people with dementia in and can keep them on the same path. Therefore, there is a lot of excellent work going on in dementia care. However, if we can learn anything from Bradford, we will have a look and do so.

Lesley Griffiths: Yn sicr, ystyriaf yr hyn sy’n digwydd yn Bradford. Pan agorais uned Ysbryd y Coed ddydd Llun, teimlais fod y sylw at fanylder yn anhygoel. Roedd tair uned hirgrwn gyda lloriau â chodau lliw, fel na fyddai pobl yn drysu pe byddent yn crwydro. Yn ôl pob tebyg, gall defnyddio lliwiau yn y modd hwn helpu i ennyn diddordeb pobl â dementia a’u cadw ar yr un llwybr. Felly, mae llawer o waith rhagorol yn cael ei wneud ym maes gofal dementia. Fodd bynnag, os gallwn ddysgu unrhyw beth oddi wrth Bradford, byddwn yn ei ystyried ac yn gwneud hynny.

Mewnblaniadau Bronnau Silicon PIP

PIP Silicone Breast Implants

12. Mick Antoniw: Mewn sawl achos y mae’r gost o newid mewnblaniadau bronnau silicon PIP ar GIG Cymru wedi cael ei hadennill gan y darparwyr preifat. OAQ(4)0200(HSS)

12. Mick Antoniw: In how many cases has the cost of replacing PIP silicone breast implants on the Welsh NHS been recovered from the private providers. OAQ(4)0200(HSS)

Lesley Griffiths: No costs have been recovered to date, as legal claims being brought by PIP patients are still before the courts.

Lesley Griffiths: Nid adenillwyd unrhyw gostau hyd yma, gan fod hawliadau cyfreithiol sy’n cael eu gwneud gan gleifion PIP yn dal gerbron y llysoedd.

 

Mick Antoniw: I would first like to welcome the very brave and correct decision that was taken by the NHS in supporting those people in Wales, putting the Welsh NHS at the forefront. I understand the complexity of the legal cases. The purpose of my supplementary question is to seek your assurance and commitment that no stone will be left unturned in recovering the costs to the Welsh Government from the private sector.

Mick Antoniw: Hoffwn yn gyntaf groesawu penderfyniad dewr a chwbl gywir y GIG i gefnogi’r bobl hynny yng Nghymru, gan roi’r GIG yng Nghymru ar flaen y gad. Deallaf gymhlethdod yr achosion cyfreithiol. Diben fy nghwestiwn atodol yw ceisio cael sicrwydd ac ymrwymiad gennych y caiff popeth posibl ei wneud i adennill y costau i Lywodraeth Cymru gan y sector preifat.

 

Lesley Griffiths: You absolutely have my assurance on that. This situation was caused as a result of a major fraud. We absolutely have to do everything that we can to recover those costs.

Lesley Griffiths: Rhoddaf fy sicrwydd llwyr ichi ynghylch hynny. Mae’r sefyllfa hon yn deillio o dwyll mawr. Yn sicr, mae’n rhaid inni wneud popeth posibl i adennill y costau.

 

Darren Millar: Minister, have you been able to establish the total costs yet, and what provision has been set aside within the Welsh NHS budget to meet these costs should they not be recovered from private providers?

Darren Millar: Weinidog, a ydych wedi llwyddo i bennu cyfanswm y costau eto, a pha ddarpariaeth sydd wedi’i neilltuo o fewn cyllideb y GIG yng Nghymru i dalu’r costau hyn oni chânt eu hadennill gan ddarparwyr preifat?

 

Lesley Griffiths: I do not have the specific costs because patients are still being treated at present. However, we estimate that the cost of replacing the implants is in the region of just over £0.5 million. All patients will be treated during the current financial year.

Lesley Griffiths: Nid yw’r costau penodol gennyf am fod cleifion yn dal i gael eu trin ar hyn o bryd. Fodd bynnag, amcangyfrifwn y bydd yn costio ychydig dros £0.5 miliwn i osod mewnblaniadau newydd yn lle’r hen rai. Caiff pob claf ei drin yn ystod y flwyddyn ariannol gyfredol.

Ymgyrchoedd Iechyd y Cyhoedd

Public Health Campaigns

13. Mark Drakeford: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am ddatblygu ymgyrchoedd cenedlaethol iechyd y cyhoedd yng Nghymru. OAQ(4)0206(HSS)

13. Mark Drakeford: Will the Minister make a statement on the development of national public health campaigns in Wales. OAQ(4)0206(HSS)

Lesley Griffiths: The Change for Life campaign is supporting people to achieve a healthy bodyweight, to eat well, to drink sensibly and to be more physically active. Around 42,000 families and adults are active members. The Fresh Start Wales campaign is raising awareness of the harm caused by second-hand smoke in cars, particularly to children.

Lesley Griffiths: Mae ymgyrch Newid am Oes yn helpu pobl i gyrraedd pwysau iach, bwyta’n dda, yfed yn synhwyrol a bod yn fwy egnïol yn gorfforol. Mae tua 42,000 o deuluoedd ac oedolion yn aelodau gweithredol. Mae ymgyrch Cychwyn Iach Cymru yn codi ymwybyddiaeth o’r niwed a achosir gan fwg ail-law mewn ceir, yn enwedig i blant.

 

Mark Drakeford: The most recent national public health campaign, the Love Your Lungs campaign, has just completed a fortnight of activity across Wales. It brought together Public Health Wales and the third sector, through the British Lung Foundation, and was delivered on the ground by the network of community pharmacies in every part of Wales. Do you believe that this tripartite partnership provides a template for the successful delivery of national public health campaigns in the future?

Mark Drakeford: Mae’r ymgyrch iechyd y cyhoedd genedlaethol ddiweddaraf, Carwch eich Ysgyfaint, newydd gwblhau pythefnos o weithgareddau ledled Cymru. Gwnaeth ddwyn ynghyd Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru a’r trydydd sector, drwy Sefydliad Prydeinig yr Ysgyfaint, ac fe’i cyflwynwyd ar lawr gwlad gan y rhwydwaith o fferyllfeydd cymunedol ym mhob rhan o Gymru. A ydych yn credu bod y bartneriaeth deir-ran hon yn darparu templed ar gyfer cyflwyno ymgyrchoedd iechyd y cyhoedd cenedlaethol yn llwyddiannus yn y dyfodol?

2.15 p.m.

Lesley Griffiths: Yes; absolutely. I was very pleased to see a broad range of health organisations working together to raise public awareness. I was at the launch of Love Your Lungs in Boots pharmacy in Cardiff, where Tim Rhys Evans, of Only Men Aloud fame, was teaching us all not to sing but to do exercises to improve our lungs. It is important, because lung disease is a significant health issue in Wales, and a priority for me as Minister and for the Government. It is important that we engage with the voluntary sector. It can help us in raising public awareness and it works closely with communities across Wales, playing a key role in ensuring that these public health campaigns are rolled out in all our communities.

Lesley Griffiths: Ydw, yn sicr. Roeddwn yn falch iawn o weld ystod eang o sefydliadau iechyd yn cydweithio i godi ymwybyddiaeth y cyhoedd. Euthum i lansiad Carwch eich Ysgyfaint yn fferyllfa Boots yng Nghaerdydd, lle roedd Tim Rhys Evans, o Only Men Aloud, yn ein dysgu, nid sut i ganu, ond sut i wneud ymarferion i wella ein hysgyfaint. Mae’n bwysig, oherwydd mae clefyd yr ysgyfaint yn broblem iechyd sylweddol yng Nghymru, ac yn flaenoriaeth imi fel Gweinidog ac i’r Llywodraeth. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cydweithio â’r sector gwirfoddol. Gall ein helpu i godi ymwybyddiaeth y cyhoedd ac mae’n gweithio’n agos gyda chymunedau ledled Cymru, gan chwarae rôl allweddol yn y gwaith o sicrhau bod yr ymgyrchoedd iechyd y cyhoedd hyn yn cael eu cyflwyno ym mhob un o’n cymunedau.

 

Russell George: I have a real concern about the use of synthetic drugs in Wales, particularly mephedrone or MCAT. Unscrupulous dealers here and abroad are deliberately targeting and exploiting children with this drug, providing them with cheap tasters in order to create long-term market demand. What is the Welsh Government doing in terms of campaign work with stakeholders, the police, local authorities and local health boards to inform children and parents of the immediate dangers and long-term impact of MCAT and other synthetic drugs?

Russell George: Mae gennyf bryder gwirioneddol ynghylch y defnydd o gyffuriau synthetig yng Nghymru, yn enwedig mephedrone neu MCAT. Mae delwyr diegwyddor yma a thramor yn targedu ac yn manteisio ar blant yn fwriadol gyda’r cyffur hwn, gan ei gynnig iddynt am bris rhad i ddechrau er mwyn creu galw hirdymor yn y farchnad. Beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud o ran gwaith ymgyrchu gyda rhanddeiliaid, yr heddlu, awdurdodau lleol a byrddau iechyd lleol er mwyn hysbysu plant a rhieni am beryglon uniongyrchol ac effaith hirdymor MCAT a chyffuriau synthetig eraill?

 

Lesley Griffiths: Obviously, it is something that is of a great deal of concern. I am having discussions with the chief medical officer to see what more we can do to get those messages out. I am currently looking at all health improvement programmes and public health campaigns, and we can look at that in that context.

Lesley Griffiths: Yn amlwg, mae’n rhywbeth sy’n peri cryn bryder. Rwy’n cael trafodaethau gyda’r prif swyddog meddygol er mwyn gweld beth arall y gallwn ei wneud i gyfleu’r negeseuon hynny. Rwyf wrthi’n ystyried yr holl raglenni gwella iechyd ac ymgyrchoedd iechyd y cyhoedd, a gallwn ystyried hynny yn y cyd-destun hwnnw.

 

Vaughan Gething: Would you be able to outline how the Welsh Government measures the effect of public health campaigns? We all know and support a whole range of public health campaigns that are ongoing. We see many of those campaigns in the Health and Social Care Committee, in particular. What progress is being made in persuading more members of the public to take on greater personal responsibility for their own health?

Vaughan Gething: A fyddech cystal ag amlinellu sut mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn mesur effaith ymgyrchoedd iechyd y cyhoedd? Rydym i gyd yn ymwybodol o amrywiaeth eang o ymgyrchoedd iechyd y cyhoedd sy’n mynd rhagddynt ac yn eu cefnogi. Rydym yn gweld llawer o’r ymgyrchoedd hynny yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol, yn arbennig. Pa gynnydd sy’n cael ei wneud i ddarbwyllo mwy o aelodau o’r cyhoedd i gymryd mwy o gyfrifoldeb personol dros eu hiechyd eu hunain?

 

Lesley Griffiths: We evaluate all of our campaigns and we measure them in different ways. I will just focus on Change4Life Wales, which is an adaptation of the Department of Health’s Change4Life campaign, which is based on a substantial body of research and insight. Any burst of campaign activity is evaluated. It has to go through a number of evaluations, to include the number of adults and families that are registered and the public relations coverage that we achieve. Social media activity is important, as are Google analytics reports for how many hits we have had on the Change4Life website. So, we do a huge amount of evaluation. In relation to that campaign, the 11,000 families that signed up during the first two years of the campaign have been revisited and asked to complete a questionnaire, so that we can assess the impact that the campaign messages have had on their behaviour.

Lesley Griffiths: Rydym yn gwerthuso pob un o’n hymgyrchoedd ac yn eu mesur mewn ffyrdd gwahanol. Byddaf ond yn canolbwyntio ar Newid am Oes Cymru, sy’n addasiad o ymgyrch Change4Life yr Adran Iechyd, sy’n seiliedig ar gorff sylweddol o ymchwil a dealltwriaeth. Caiff unrhyw weithgarwch a gynhelir fel rhan o’r ymgyrch ei werthuso. Mae’n rhaid iddo fod yn destun nifer o werthusiadau, gan gynnwys nifer yr oedolion a’r teuluoedd sydd wedi’u cofrestru a’r sylw a roddir i’r ymgyrch gan gysylltiadau cyhoeddus. Mae gweithgarwch cyfryngau cymdeithasol yn bwysig, felly hefyd adroddiadau dadansoddi Google sy’n nodi nifer y bobl sy’n ymweld â gwefan Newid am Oes. Felly, rydym yn gwneud llawer iawn o waith gwerthuso. O ran yr ymgyrch honno, ailgysylltwyd â’r 11,000 o deuluoedd a gofrestrodd yn ystod dwy flynedd gyntaf yr ymgyrch a gofynnwyd iddynt lenwi holiadur, er mwyn inni allu asesu’r effaith y mae negeseuon yr ymgyrch wedi’i chael ar eu hymddygiad.

Cwestiynau i’r Cwnsler Cyffredinol
Questions to the Counsel General

The Record

Awdurdodaeth Gyfreithiol ar Wahân

Separate Legal Jurisdiction

1. Simon Thomas: A wnaiff y Cwnsler Cyffredinol amlinellu pam ei fod yn credu y byddai’r achos dros sefydlu awdurdodaeth gyfreithiol ar wahân yng Nghymru yn wannach o lawer heb ddatganoli plismona a chyfiawnder i Gymru. OAQ(4)0041(CGE)

1. Simon Thomas: Will the Counsel General outline why he considers that the case for establishing a separate Welsh legal jurisdiction would be considerably weakened without the devolution of policing and justice to Wales. OAQ(4)0041(CGE)

The Counsel General (Theodore Huckle): Without the devolution of policing and, particularly, justice, important aspects of the supposedly separate jurisdiction would still be the responsibility of Whitehall. We are, however, considering all of the options. Whatever view we reach as a Government must be for the benefit of the people of Wales.

Y Cwnsler Cyffredinol (Theodore Huckle): Heb ddatganoli plismona ac, yn benodol, gyfiawnder, Whitehall fyddai’n gyfrifol o hyd am agweddau pwysig ar yr awdurdodaeth sydd i fod ar wahân. Rydym, fodd bynnag, yn ystyried yr holl opsiynau. Mae’n rhaid i ba farn bynnag y byddwn yn cytuno arni fod er budd pobl Cymru.

 

Simon Thomas: I thank the Counsel General for his reply. When I tabled this question I did not know that Chris Grayling would be coming to Wales yesterday, saying that he was very doubtful of the need for a separate Welsh jurisdiction and that

Simon Thomas: Diolchaf i’r Cwnsler Cyffredinol am ei ateb. Pan gyflwynais y cwestiwn hwn, nid oeddwn yn gwybod y byddai Chris Grayling yn dod i Gymru ddoe, gan ddweud ei fod yn amheus iawn o’r angen am awdurdodaeth ar wahân i Gymru ac y byddai’n

 

'it would be an enormous expense’.

costio llawer o arian.

 

That is not something that we have had any evidence for in the public evidence that the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee has received. Nevertheless, you said, Counsel General, in a recent speech discussing policing, that you needed a reasonably full set of powers in relation to justice in order to make a separate Welsh jurisdiction work. Could you explain a little more about how the Government will now approach this? Is it a twin-track approach to take what might be available and then perhaps to move on at a later date, or is a separate Welsh jurisdiction now contingent upon the devolution of justice and policing powers?

Nid yw hynny’n rhywbeth rydym wedi cael unrhyw dystiolaeth ohono yn y dystiolaeth gyhoeddus y mae’r Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol wedi’i chael. Serch hynny, dywedasoch, Gwnsler Cyffredinol, mewn araith ddiweddar yn trafod plismona, fod angen cyfres lawn o bwerau mewn perthynas â chyfiawnder er mwyn sicrhau bod awdurdodaeth ar wahân i Gymru yn llwyddo. A allech esbonio ychydig yn fwy sut y bydd y Llywodraeth bellach yn ymdrin â hyn? A yw’n ddull deublyg o gymryd yr hyn a allai fod ar gael ac wedyn efallai symud ymlaen yn ddiweddarach, neu a yw awdurdodaeth Gymreig ar wahân bellach yn amodol ar ddatganoli cyfiawnder a phwerau plismona?

 

Theodore Huckle: If I may put it this way, the thrust of what I said in the speech and what I would say to the Chamber today is that we must approach this in a pragmatic and practical way. I am sure that those of us who have been concerned with this issue have spoken within and without our political spheres to friends and others about the matter. In my experience, non-lawyers have a great deal of difficulty in understanding how you could separate the jurisdiction in theory but not have control of the courts and justice generally in practice. That is something that is very difficult for people to understand and, frankly, the idea that we might pursue one without the other seems to us to cause real and practical difficulties of persuasion, if that is appropriate, or in reflecting the views of the public in Wales. That is what I was directing my remarks at.

Theodore Huckle: Os caf ei fynegi fel hyn, hanfod yr hyn a ddywedais yn yr araith a’r hyn y byddwn yn ei ddweud wrth y Siambr heddiw yw bod yn rhaid inni ymdrin â hyn mewn ffordd bragmatig ac ymarferol. Rwy’n siŵr bod y rheiny ohonom sydd wedi bod yn ymwneud â’r mater hwn wedi siarad y tu mewn a’r tu allan i’n meysydd gwleidyddol â ffrindiau ac eraill am y mater. Yn fy mhrofiad i, mae pobl nad ydynt yn gyfreithwyr yn cael anhawster deall sut y gallech wahanu’r awdurdodaeth mewn theori heb gael rheolaeth dros y llysoedd a chyfiawnder yn gyffredinol yn ymarferol. Mae hynny’n rhywbeth sy’n anodd iawn i bobl ei ddeall ac, a dweud y gwir, ymddengys fod y syniad y gallem fynd ar drywydd un heb y llall yn achosi anawsterau gwirioneddol ac ymarferol o ran darbwyllo, os yw hynny’n briodol, neu adlewyrchu barn y cyhoedd yng Nghymru. Dyna beth roeddwn yn ceisio ei gyfleu yn fy sylwadau.

 

I, too, have seen the remarks made by the Secretary of State for Justice—whom we met yesterday during his visit to Wales—about costs, although that was not discussed specifically. I saw his press release. The difficulty is this: experience shows that that there is a tendency and a temptation, perhaps now more than ever, to devolve things and to pass over budgets, but perhaps not the whole of the budget that was previously used to cater for those services. That is a principal concern about the idea of seeking immediate devolution of areas of justice, particularly criminal justice.

Rwyf innau, hefyd, wedi gweld y sylwadau a wnaed gan yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Gyfiawnder-y cyfarfûm ag ef ddoe yn ystod ei ymweliad â Chymru-am gostau, er na thrafodwyd hynny’n benodol. Gwelais ei ddatganiad i’r wasg. Yr anhawster yw hyn: dengys profiad fod tuedd a themtasiwn, nawr yn fwy nag erioed efallai, i ddatganoli pethau ac i drosglwyddo cyllidebau, ond o bosibl nid y gyllideb gyfan a ddefnyddiwyd yn flaenorol ar gyfer y gwasanaethau hynny. Mae hynny’n peri pryder mawr o ran y syniad o geisio datganoli meysydd cyfiawnder, yn enwedig cyfiawnder troseddol, ar unwaith.

Cymhwysedd Deddfwriaethol Biliau

Legislative Competence of Bills

2. Simon Thomas: A wnaiff y Cwnsler Cyffredinol ddatganiad am oblygiadau penderfyniad diweddar y Goruchaf Lys ar ystyriaeth Llywodraeth Cymru ynghylch cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol Biliau. OAQ(4)0042(CGE)

2. Simon Thomas: Will the Counsel General make a statement on the implications of the recent Supreme Court ruling on the Welsh Government’s consideration on the legislative competence of Bills. OAQ(4)0042(CGE)

Theodore Huckle: The Supreme Court has, in a unanimous judgment, agreed with our view for a number of reasons—and I am obviously pleased that it has done so. This establishes an important principle relating to the devolution settlement and justifies our stance in this case and our approach to legislative competence.

Theodore Huckle: Mae’r Goruchaf Lys, mewn dyfarniad unfrydol, wedi cytuno â’n barn am nifer o resymau—ac rwy’n amlwg yn falch ei fod wedi gwneud hynny. Mae hyn yn sefydlu egwyddor bwysig sy’n ymwneud â setliad datganoli ac yn cyfiawnhau ein safiad yn yr achos hwn a’n hymagwedd at gymhwysedd deddfwriaethol.

Simon Thomas: Yn gyntaf, llongyfarchiadau ar eich ymddangosiad cyntaf gerbron y Goruchaf Lys ac ar y ffaith ichi lwyddo. Gobeithio y bydd llwyddiant yn dilyn bob tro, gan eich bod yn gwybod i Lywodraeth San Steffan heddiw ddweud nad yw eto mewn sefyllfa i ddweud nad oes unrhyw ystyriaethau cymhwysedd i’r Bil organau. Oni fyddai’n well symud mor fuan ag y bo modd i system wahanol lle y byddai’n glir pa bwerau sydd wedi’u rhoi i Gymru a pha rai sydd wedi’u neilltuo i San Steffan? Pa waith y mae’r Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i symud, yng nghyd-destun adroddiad Silk, i wireddu’r freuddwyd honno a fyddai, unwaith ac am byth, yn rhoi stop ar yr angen i fynd i’r Goruchaf Lys i ateb problemau datganoli?

Simon Thomas: First, congratulations on your first appearance before the Supreme Court and for your success there. I hope that you are successful every time, because you will know that the Westminster Government has today said that it is not yet in a position to say that there are no competence issues attached to the organ donation Bill. Would it not be better to move as swiftly as possible to a different system, under which it would be clear which powers are devolved to Wales and which are reserved by Westminster? What work is the Government doing to move, in the context of the Silk report, to realise that ambition, putting an end, once and for all, to the need to go the Supreme Court to resolve devolution issues?

Theodore Huckle: First, it is the organ transplantation Bill, but of course, I understand the thrust of the question. As Members will know, the First Minister recently made observations about the desirability of a move to what some people think of as the 'Scottish model’ of reserved powers devolution. That will, no doubt, form an important part of the discussions and deliberations of the Silk commission. I am not sure that I can say very much more about it at this stage.

Theodore Huckle: Yn gyntaf, Bil trawsblannu dynol yw’r teitl cywir, ond wrth gwrs, rwy’n deall hanfod y cwestiwn. Fel y gŵyr Aelodau, gwnaeth y Prif Weinidog sylwadau yn ddiweddar ynghylch pa mor ddymunol fyddai symud i’r hyn y mae rhai pobl yn ei ystyried yn 'fodel yr Alban’ o bwerau datganoli a gadwyd yn ôl. Bydd hynny, yn ddiau, yn rhan bwysig o drafodaethau comisiwn Silk. Ni chredaf y gallaf ddweud llawer mwy am y peth ar hyn o bryd.

 

Mick Antoniw: The Shadow Secretary of State for Wales, Owen Smith, described the challenge as a waste of time and money. Undoubtedly, it has cost hundreds of thousands of pounds in public money. However, in the light of the decision—particularly paragraphs 52 to 59—is the Counsel Generals satisfied that the Wales Office now has a better understanding of the devolution settlement?

Mick Antoniw: Disgrifiodd Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yr Wrthblaid dros Gymru, Owen Smith, yr her yn wastraff amser ac arian. Yn ddi-os, mae wedi costio cannoedd ar filoedd o bunnoedd mewn arian cyhoeddus. Fodd bynnag, yng ngoleuni’r penderfyniad—yn enwedig baragraffau 52 i 59—a yw’r Cwnsler Cyffredinol yn fodlon bod gan Swyddfa Cymru bellach ddealltwriaeth well o’r setliad datganoli?

 

Theodore Huckle: No.

Theodore Huckle: Na.

 

Kenneth Skates: I also congratulate the Counsel General on ensuring that common sense prevailed in the Supreme Court over this Bill.

Kenneth Skates: Hoffwn hefyd longyfarch y Cwnsler Cyffredinol ar sicrhau bod synnwyr cyffredin wedi ennill y dydd yn y Goruchaf Lys dros y Mesur hwn.

 

Does the Counsel General agree with me that the real importance of this ruling is that, when it comes to drafting legislation and making the devolution settlement work, we need to have the necessary legislative expertise within the Welsh Government that can deliver good legislation on behalf of the people of Wales?

A yw’r Cwnsler Cyffredinol yn cytuno â mi mai gwir bwysigrwydd y dyfarniad hwn, o ran drafftio deddfwriaeth a gwneud y gwaith setliad datganoli, yw bod angen inni gael yr arbenigedd deddfwriaethol angenrheidiol o fewn Llywodraeth Cymru a all gyflwyno deddfwriaeth dda ar ran pobl Cymru?

 

Theodore Huckle: There is an important point here, and it is partly within the question as you framed it. Certainly, it is very important that highly skilled draughtsmen are at work, preparing the legislation that passes through this body.

Theodore Huckle: Mae pwynt pwysig yma, ac mae’n rhannol o fewn y cwestiwn a gyflwynwyd gennych. Yn sicr, mae’n bwysig iawn bod ddrafftsmyn medrus ar waith, yn paratoi’r ddeddfwriaeth sy’n pasio drwy’r corff hwn.

 

Perhaps I can make a broader point. Lord Hope, who is the senior Scots judge of the Supreme Court and, probably, the most senior jurist that we have in devolution matters, was at pains to describe the Local Government Byelaws (Wales) Bill as a very well-drafted piece of legislation. That contrasts rather sharply with the comments made by commentators and the media in Wales and, in one particular respect, by the Liberal Democrat Member for North Wales, who observed that the Government had failed to appreciate the difference between a draughter and a lawyer. I assure everybody here and the people of Wales that the Government very much appreciates the difference between a draughter and a lawyer and has worked hard to ensure that high levels of skill are at play in relation to the draughting of legislation.

Efallai y gallaf wneud pwynt ehangach. Roedd yr Arglwydd Hope, sef uwch farnwr yr Alban yn y Goruchaf Lys ac, mae’n debyg, y cyfreithydd uchaf sydd gennym ym maes datganoli, yn awyddus iawn i ddisgrifio Bil Is-ddeddfau Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru) fel darn o ddeddfwriaeth wedi’i ddrafftio’n dda iawn. Mae hynny’n gwrthgyferbynnu’n sylweddol â’r sylwadau a wnaed gan sylwebyddion a’r cyfryngau yng Nghymru ac, mewn un ffordd benodol, gan Aelod y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn y gogledd, a ddywedodd fod y Llywodraeth wedi methu â gwerthfawrogi’r gwahaniaeth rhwng draffstmon a chyfreithiwr. Rhoddaf sicrwydd i bawb yma ac i bobl Cymru fod y Llywodraeth yn gwerthfawrogi’n fawr y gwahaniaeth rhwng drafftsmon a chyfreithiwr ac mae wedi gweithio’n galed i sicrhau bod lefelau uchel o sgiliau ar waith mewn perthynas â drafftio deddfwriaeth.

 

I also wish to make an even broader point. It was with some irritation that the team—if I can call it that—and I listened to the observations that were made in the run-up to the Supreme Court hearing, to the effect that the Welsh Government should have listened to the warnings emanating from the Wales Office, asking how could it have got it so wrong and why did it not listen to what it was being told by London about what the law was. Therefore, it is a particular pleasure that we won five-nil in the Supreme Court on all matters. The Supreme Court agreed with every aspect of our position. I am not complacent and I am not sanguine; we could have another argument and lose—of course we could. That can always happen in a legal case. However, the point that I am trying to make is that it is very important that the work of the Assembly is not undermined on an improper basis by those—including Members—seeking to make political points, because there are no political points to make here. The work of draughters and lawyers in the Welsh Government’s Legal Service is not a party-political matter at all. They work very hard and are a highly skilled group of lawyers. I am pleased to work with them and they were right.

Hoffwn hefyd wneud pwynt hyd yn oed ehangach. Gwrandawodd y tîm—os gallaf ei alw’n hynny—a minnau gyda chryn ddicter ar y sylwadau a wnaed yn y cyfnod cyn gwrandawiad y Goruchaf Lys, yn awgrymu y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru fod wedi gwrando ar y rhybuddion gan Swyddfa Cymru, gan ofyn sut y gallai wedi bod mor anghywir a pham na wrandawodd ar yr hyn yr oedd Llundain yn ei ddweud wrthi am y gyfraith. Felly, mae’n bleser arbennig ein bod wedi ennill o bump i ddim yn y Goruchaf Lys ar bob mater. Cytunodd y Goruchaf Lys gyda phob agwedd ar ein sefyllfa. Nid wyf yn hunanfodlon, ac nid wyf yn obeithiol; gallem gael dadl arall a cholli—wrth gwrs. Gall hynny bob amser ddigwydd mewn achos cyfreithiol. Fodd bynnag, y pwynt rwy’n ceisio ei wneud yw ei bod yn bwysig iawn na chaiff gwaith y Cynulliad ei danseilio ar sail amhriodol gan y rheiny—gan gynnwys Aelodau—sy’n ceisio gwneud pwyntiau gwleidyddol, oherwydd nid oes unrhyw bwyntiau gwleidyddol i’w gwneud yma. Nid mater i’r pleidiau gwleidyddol yw gwaith drafftsmyn a chyfreithwyr yng Ngwasanaeth Cyfreithiol Llywodraeth Cymru. Maent yn gweithio’n galed iawn ac yn grŵp hynod fedrus o gyfreithwyr. Mae’n bleser gennyf weithio gyda nhw ac roeddent yn gywir.

 

Joyce Watson: I would also like to congratulate the Counsel General for the part that he must have played in delivering the Supreme Court’s decision. Now that that ruling has been made, did you share my frustration, and that of those around us, when the challenge was made, about the usual irritating presumption in some quarters—in the London media and commentariat—that, if London challenged Cardiff on a point of law, such as was the case with the byelaws Bill, London must be right? Does this ruling smash the myth that London is always right?

Joyce Watson: Hoffwn hefyd longyfarch y Cwnsler Cyffredinol am y rhan y mae’n rhaid ei fod wedi’i chwarae wrth gyflwyno penderfyniad y Goruchaf Lys. Nawr bod y dyfarniad wedi’i wneud, a wnaethoch rannu fy rhwystredigaeth innau, a’r rheiny o’n cwmpas, pan gyflwynwyd yr her, ynghylch y rhagdybiaeth gythruddol arferol mewn rhai mannau—yn y cyfryngau yn Llundain ac ymhlith y newyddiadurwyr a’r darlledwyr—pe bai Llundain yn herio Caerdydd ar fater o gyfraith, fel yn achos y Bil Is-ddeddfau, yna mae’n rhaid mai Llundain oedd yn iawn? A yw’r dyfarniad hwn yn chwalu’r myth bod Llundain bob amser yn iawn?

 

Theodore Huckle: I do not know about smashing the myth but, as I have already said, the answer to your question is 'yes’.

Theodore Huckle: Wn i ddim am chwalu’r myth, ond, fel y dywedais eisoes, yr ateb i’ch cwestiwn yw 'do’.

Cwestiynau i Gomisiwn y Cynulliad
Questions to the Assembly Commission

The Record

The Presiding Officer: The question that was submitted to the Assembly Commission, OAQ(4)0067(AC), has been transferred for written answer.

Y Llywydd: Mae’r cwestiwn a gyflwynwyd i Gomisiwn y Cynulliad, OAQ(4)0067(AC), wedi'i drosglwyddo i'w ateb yn ysgrifenedig.

Cynnig i Ddiwygio Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6 mewn perthynas â Chadeiryddion Dros Dro yn y Cyfarfod Llawn
Motion to Amend Standing Order No. 6 in relation to the Temporary Chair of Plenary Meetings

The Record

Cynnig NDM5104 Rosemary Butler

Motion NDM5104 Rosemary Butler

Cynnig bod y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 33.2:

To propose that the National Assembly, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Yn ystyried Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Busnes 'Diwygiadau arfaethedig i Reol Sefydlog 6.23: Cadeiryddion Dros Dro yn y Cyfarfodydd Llawn’ a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 21 Tachwedd 2012; a

1. Considers the Report of the Business Committee 'Proposed amendments to Standing Order 6.23: Temporary Chair of Plenary Meetings’ laid in the Table Office on 21 November 2012; and

2. Yn cymeradwyo’r cynnig i adolygu Rheol Sefydlog 6, fel y nodir yn Atodiadau B i Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Busnes.

2. Approves the proposal to revise Standing Order 6, as set out in Annex B of the Report of the Business Committee.

William Graham: I move the motion.

William Graham: Cynigiaf y cynnig.

 

The Presiding Officer: The proposal is to agree the motion. Are there any objections? There are no objections; therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order No. 12.36.

Y Llywydd: Y cynnig yw cytuno ar y cynnig. A oes unrhyw wrthwynebiadau? Nid oes unrhyw wrthwynebiadau; felly, caiff y cynnig ei gytuno yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion agreed.

Dadl gan Aelodau Unigol o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 11.21(iv)
Debate by Individual Members under Standing Order No. 11.21(iv)

Iechyd Meddwl
Mental Health

The Record

Cynnig NDM5096 Kenneth Skates, Eluned Parrott, David Melding, Llyr Huws Gruffydd

Motion NDM5096 Kenneth Skates, Eluned Parrott, David Melding, Llŷr Huws Gruffydd

Mae Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

The National Assembly for Wales:

1. Yn cydnabod ac yn gresynu bod pobl sydd â phroblemau iechyd meddwl yn dioddef stigma a gwahaniaethu;

1. Recognises and regrets that people with mental health problems experience stigma and discrimination;

2. Yn croesawu Amser i Newid Cymru, sef yr ymgyrch genedlaethol gyntaf i roi terfyn ar y stigma a’r gwahaniaethu y mae pobl sydd â phroblemau iechyd meddwl yng Nghymru yn eu hwynebu;

2. Welcomes Time to Change Wales, the first national campaign to end the stigma and discrimination faced by people with mental health problems in Wales;

3. Yn nodi’r gwaith ymchwil a gynhaliwyd yn ddiweddar gan Amser i Newid Cymru, a oedd yn dangos bod:

3. Notes the recent research carried out by Time to Change Wales, which showed that:

a) un ym mhob pedwar yn credu na ddylid caniatáu i bobl sydd â phroblemau iechyd meddwl fod mewn swydd gyhoeddus; a

a) 1 in 4 people believe that people with mental health problems should not be allowed to hold public office; and

b) un ym mhob 10 yn credu na ddylid caniatáu i bobl sydd â phroblemau iechyd meddwl gael plant;

b) 1 in 10 people believe that people with mental health problems should not be allowed to have children;

4. Yn cydnabod bod pobl sydd â materion iechyd meddwl yn chwarae rhan sylweddol mewn cymdeithas, yn gweithio ar draws ystod o sectorau ac yn gwneud cyfraniadau pwysig at yr economi; a

4. Recognises that people with mental health issues play significant roles in society, work across a range of sectors and make important contributions to the economy; and

5. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i gefnogi’r ymgyrch Amser i Newid Cymru a dangos ymrwymiad i roi terfyn ar y stigma a’r gwahaniaethu sy’n gysylltiedig ag iechyd meddwl.

5. Calls on the Welsh Government to support the Time to Change Wales campaign and demonstrate a commitment to ending mental health stigma and discrimination.

Eluned Parrott: I move the motion in my name and in the names of Kenneth Skates, David Melding and Llyr Huws Gruffydd, and with the name of Rebecca Evans in support.

Eluned Parrott: Cynigiaf y cynnig yn fy enw i ac yn enwau Kenneth Skates, David Melding a Llyr Huws Gruffydd, a chydag enw Rebecca Evans yn ei gefnogi.

 

I would like to thank the Business Committee for selecting this debate for discussion today and I thank, in advance, the Members who hope to contribute. The subject is one that is close to my heart but, as I also hope to show, it is a major challenge for Wales as a society. The purpose of today’s debate is not only to raise awareness of the stigma and discrimination faced by people with mental ill health, but to challenge some of the preconceptions that people have. The Time to Change Wales campaign from Mind Cymru, Gofal and Hafal aims to tackle these preconceptions and encourage people to speak out to end discrimination.

Hoffwn ddiolch i'r Pwyllgor Busnes am ddewis y ddadl hon ar gyfer y drafodaeth heddiw a diolch, ymlaen llaw, i’r Aelodau sy'n gobeithio cyfrannu. Mae'r pwnc yn un sy'n agos at fy nghalon, ond, fel yr wyf hefyd yn gobeithio ei ddangos, mae'n her fawr i Gymru fel cymdeithas. Pwrpas y ddadl heddiw yw nid yn unig codi ymwybyddiaeth o'r stigma a'r gwahaniaethu a wynebir gan bobl â salwch meddwl, ond herio rhai o'r rhagdybiaethau sydd gan bobl. Nod ymgyrch Amser i Newid Cymru gan Mind Cymru, Gofal a Hafal yw mynd i'r afael â'r rhagdybiaethau hyn ac annog pobl i siarad er mwyn rhoi diwedd ar wahaniaethu.

2.30 p.m.

Sadly, research conducted on behalf of the campaign really shows the size of the challenge they face. As quoted in the motion today, one in four people believe that people with mental health problems should not be allowed to hold public office, and one in 10 believe that they should not be allowed to have children. The research also uncovered other shocking statistics: for example, one in 10 of the research’s respondents said that people with mental health problems are less trustworthy, and one in five respondents believe that they are unpredictable. One in four said that they would feel uncomfortable even being in the presence of someone with mental health problems. The truth is, of course, that as a quarter of the population will suffer from mental ill health during the course of their lives, the chances are that, right now, you are in the presence of someone who now has, has in the past, or will have in the future, a mental health problem; it is just that if you know about it, it might change the way in which you view that person and interact with them.

Yn anffodus, mae ymchwil a gynhaliwyd ar ran yr ymgyrch yn dangos gwir faint yr her sy'n eu hwynebu. Fel y dyfynnir yn y cynnig heddiw, mae un o bob pedwar person o’r farn na ddylai pobl â phroblemau iechyd meddwl gael yr hawl i ddal swydd gyhoeddus, ac mae un o bob 10 o’r farn na ddylent gael yr hawl i gael plant. Mae'r ymchwil hefyd yn datgelu ystadegau brawychus eraill: er enghraifft, dywedodd un o bob 10 o ymatebwyr yr ymchwil fod pobl â phroblemau iechyd meddwl yn llai dibynadwy, ac roedd un o bob pump o ymatebwyr o’r farn eu bod yn anrhagweladwy. Dywedodd un o bob pedwar y byddent yn teimlo'n anghyfforddus hyd yn oed ym mhresenoldeb rhywun â phroblemau iechyd meddwl. Y gwir yw, wrth gwrs, gan y bydd chwarter y boblogaeth yn dioddef o salwch meddwl yn ystod eu bywydau, ei bod yn debygol eich bod, yn awr, ym mhresenoldeb rhywun sydd â phroblem iechyd meddwl yn awr, sydd wedi yn y gorffennol neu a fydd yn y dyfodol; ond pe baech yn gwybod am y peth, gallai newid y ffordd yr ydych yn gweld y person hwnnw ac yn rhyngweithio ag ef.

 

It is bad enough that the stigma causes those individuals additional pain, but what is even more concerning is that the fear of being labelled can actively prevent people from seeking the help they need and that has to be challenged. Certainly, that was true for me. I suffered from postnatal depression after the birth of both of my children and that fear of what other people would think of me stopped me from admitting I had a problem. I struggled on my own for months and that was a huge strain on my family because I did not want to face the truth. However, I have been very lucky; I have a fantastic doctor and I had a fantastic health visitor, who spotted the warning signs and helped me put my life back together very early. I also had a very supportive employer in Cardiff University, which reorganised my work without demoting me and gave me access to its own staff counselling service and was generally very supportive. It was exemplary in showing how an employer can respond to staff with mental health problems in a positive way and get more out of its staff as a result. I never took a single day’s sick leave because of my depression and I ended up taking on new responsibilities and new work and becoming promoted as a result. However, the decision as to whether to tell an employer is a very difficult one; it depends very much on the individual employer and it is particularly challenging when your illness is at its worst.

Mae'n ddigon gwael bod y stigma yn achosi poen ychwanegol i’r unigolion hynny, ond yr hyn sy’n peri mwy o bryder fyth yw y gall yr ofn o gael eu labelu atal pobl rhag gofyn am yr help sydd ei angen arnynt ac mae'n rhaid herio hynny. Yn sicr, yr oedd hynny’n wir i mi. Cefais iselder ôl-enedigol ar ôl geni fy nau blentyn ac roedd yr ofn hwnnw o beth y byddai pobl eraill yn ei feddwl ohonof yn fy rhwystro rhag cyfaddef fod gennyf broblem. Ceisiais ymdopi ar fy mhen fy hun am fisoedd ac yr oedd hynny'n straen enfawr ar fy nheulu am nad oeddwn am wynebu'r gwir. Fodd bynnag, rwyf wedi bod yn ffodus iawn; mae gen i feddyg gwych ac roedd gen i ymwelydd iechyd gwych, a sylwodd ar yr arwyddion a’m helpu i ddod ataf fy hun yn gynnar iawn. Roedd gen i gyflogwr cefnogol iawn hefyd ym Mhrifysgol Caerdydd, a ad-drefnodd fy ngwaith heb ddiraddio fy swydd a sicrhau fy mod yn gallu defnyddio ei wasanaeth cwnsela staff ei hun ac roedd yn gyffredinol yn gefnogol iawn. Roedd yn esiampl o’r ffordd y gall cyflogwr ymateb i staff sydd â phroblemau iechyd meddwl mewn ffordd gadarnhaol a chael mwy allan o’r staff o ganlyniad. Ni chollais ddiwrnod o waith oherwydd fy iselder ac ymgymerais â chyfrifoldebau newydd a gwaith newydd a chefais fy nyrchafu yn sgil hynny. Fodd bynnag, mae'r penderfyniad ynghylch a ddylid dweud wrth gyflogwr yn un anodd iawn; mae'n dibynnu i raddau helaeth ar y cyflogwr unigol ac mae'n arbennig o heriol pan fydd eich salwch ar ei waethaf.

 

It is also difficult to explain to someone who has never experienced mental ill health what it can feel like to be depressed. The closest emotional parallel I can think of is a feeling of senseless, open-ended grief, and that pain can be so intense and so all-consuming that it crushes out every other thought or feeling from your mind. Very quickly, you find that your life is all about that pain, to the point that, sometimes, you will cling to absolutely anything that you think will take that pain away from you. It has a profound effect, therefore, on your family life and relationships.

Mae hefyd yn anodd esbonio i rywun nad yw erioed wedi profi salwch meddwl sut deimlad ydyw i fod yn isel. Y teimlad emosiynol agosaf y gallaf feddwl amdano yw teimlad o alar disynnwyr, penagored a gall y boen honno fod mor ddwys ac mor hollysol fel ei fod yn gwasgu pob teimlad arall allan o’ch meddwl. Yn gyflym iawn, byddwch yn canfod bod y boen yn llenwi’ch bywyd, i’r pwynt, weithiau, y byddwch yn glynu at unrhyw beth y credwch fydd yn lleddfu’r boen honno. Mae'n cael effaith ddifrifol, felly, ar eich bywyd teuluol a’ch cydberthnasau.

My second bout of postnatal depression was very serious and it stopped me from bonding properly with the new baby. One sad reminder of that time is that I have only one photograph of my daughter as a young baby. Those first four months are not recorded, and sadly, because of the illness, I cannot remember that time very clearly either—the illness robbed that from my family. Looking back, I had become so detached from my life that I was not really living in it anymore.

Roedd fy ail gyfnod o iselder ôl-enedigol yn ddifrifol iawn ac fe wnaeth fy atal rhag dod yn agos at y babi newydd. Un atgof trist o’r cyfnod hwnnw yw mai dim ond un llun o fy merch sydd gen i yn fabi bach. Nid yw'r pedwar mis cyntaf hynny wedi cael eu cofnodi, ac yn anffodus, oherwydd y salwch, ni allaf gofio’r amser hwnnw yn glir iawn ychwaith—cafodd hwnnw ei ddwyn oddi wrth fy nheulu gan y salwch. Wrth edrych yn ôl, roeddwn wedi datgysylltu cymaint o’m bywyd fel nad oeddwn wir yn ei fyw mwyach.

Illnesses such as depression can leave people feeling isolated, vulnerable and disorientated, but the stigma that people face adds insult to that very real injury. Open discrimination is less common than it used to be, but those prejudices still manifest themselves in subtle ways. Friends disappear, families struggle to talk to you and employers take responsibility away from you because they assume you will not be able to cope. All this adds to the sense of loss and undermines your self-worth at a time when that is most vulnerable and when it is most important to you.

Gall salwch fel iselder beri i bobl deimlo'n ynysig, yn agored i niwed ac yn ddryslyd, ond mae’r stigma y mae pobl yn ei wynebu yn rhoi halen yn y briw hwnnw. Mae gwahaniaethu agored yn llai cyffredin nag yr arferai fod, ond mae’r rhagfarnau hynny yn dal i amlygu eu hunain mewn ffyrdd cynnil. Mae ffrindiau yn diflannu, teuluoedd yn ei chael hi'n anodd siarad â chi a chyflogwyr yn cymryd cyfrifoldeb oddi wrthych am eu bod yn cymryd yn ganiataol na fyddwch yn gallu ymdopi. Mae hyn i gyd yn ychwanegu at yr ymdeimlad o golled ac yn tanseilio eich hunanwerth ar adeg pan fo hynny ar ei isaf a phan fo bwysicaf i chi.

 

Prejudice can come from the most surprising sources. In my own dealings with the medical profession, I found that there were still individuals who, while well-meaning, were not able to deal effectively with me, for example, the rather brusque doctor who told me, 'Lose weight; if you looked better, you would feel better about yourself’. Now, let us be fair, he has a point, but it is not the most sensitive thing a man has ever said to a crying woman, is it now? In the depressed mothers workshops that I was sent to, in the sixth session of six, when you would have hoped that she would have known us better, the course leader suggested to a group of four professional women that we go on a basic literacy course to improve our self-esteem. There are underlying assumptions here that people who have had a mental health problem are somehow less capable than those who have not. That is not the case. The truth is that mental ill health can affect anyone. It takes no account of age, sex, colour, faith, how educated you are, how important you are, where you live, or where you came from. It is indiscriminate in a way that our society is not yet. We will still have a job to do while that is still the case.

Gall rhagfarn ddod o'r ffynonellau mwyaf rhyfeddol. Yn fy ymwneud fy hun â'r proffesiwn meddygol, canfûm fod unigolion o hyd na allent, er bod ganddynt fwriadau da, ddelio'n effeithiol â mi, er enghraifft, y meddyg swta a ddywedodd wrthyf, 'Collwch bwysau; pe baech yn edrych yn well, byddech yn teimlo'n well amdanoch eich hun'. Nawr, a bod yn deg, mae ganddo bwynt, ond nid dyma'r peth mwyaf sensitif i ddyn erioed ei ddweud wrth fenyw sy’n crio, a gytunwch? Yn y gweithdai i famau isel y cefais fy anfon iddynt, yn y chweched sesiwn o chwech, pan fyddech wedi gobeithio y byddai’n ein hadnabod yn well, awgrymodd arweinydd y cwrs i grŵp o bedair o fenywod proffesiynol y dylem fynd ar gwrs llythrennedd sylfaenol i wella ein hunan-barch. Mae tybiaethau sylfaenol yma fod pobl sydd wedi cael problem iechyd meddwl rywsut yn llai galluog na'r rhai heb broblem o’r fath. Nid yw hynny’n wir. Y gwir yw y gall salwch meddwl effeithio ar unrhyw un. Nid yw’n ystyried oedran, rhyw, lliw, ffydd, pa mor addysgedig ydych chi, pa mor bwysig ydych chi, ble rydych chi'n byw, nac o ble rydych chi’n dod. Nid yw’n gwahaniaethu mewn ffordd nad yw ein cymdeithas eto. Bydd gennym swydd i’w chyflawni o hyd tra bod hynny’n dal yn wir.

 

I believe that my experiences have made me a stronger person, not a weaker one. Having to rebuild my life forced me to reassess my priorities, and to think about what was important to me. It focused my mind on the things that really matter in my life. It challenged my own prejudices, and made me face up to uncomfortable truths about myself, and about my own thoughts and feelings. I believe that it has also made me a much more empathetic person, so that when someone comes to me in trouble and distress, I really do understand how they feel. I am much less judgmental because I know what it feels like to be judged.

Credaf fod fy mhrofiadau wedi fy ngwneud yn berson cryfach, nid gwannach. Yn sgil gorfod ailadeiladu fy mywyd cefais fy ngorfodi i ailasesu fy mlaenoriaethau, a meddwl am yr hyn oedd yn bwysig i mi. Canolbwyntiodd fy meddwl ar y pethau sy'n wirioneddol bwysig yn fy mywyd. Heriodd fy rhagfarnau fy hun, a gwnaeth imi wynebu gwirioneddau anghysurus amdanaf i fy hun, ac am fy meddyliau a'm teimladau fy hun. Credaf ei fod hefyd wedi fy ngwneud yn berson mwy empathetig o lawer, felly pan fydd rhywun yn dod ataf mewn trafferth a gofid, gallaf ddeall yn union sut y maent yn teimlo. Rwy’n llawer llai beirniadol am fy mod yn gwybod sut deimlad ydyw cael fy marnu.

My hope is that today’s debate will encourage our society as a whole to be more open about mental ill health. However, I recognise that, for each individual, the decision as to whether to talk about it or not is a very personal one. You have to know that it is right for you. However, I also want to send a message to anyone listening today who is currently suffering from depression, and that is: even from the darkest places, you can come back. However difficult it might be right now, you can fight it. I know that, because I have.

Fy ngobaith yw y bydd y ddadl heddiw yn annog ein cymdeithas yn gyffredinol i fod yn fwy agored am salwch meddwl. Fodd bynnag, rwy'n cydnabod, i bob unigolyn, fod y penderfyniad ynghylch a ddylid siarad am y peth ai peidio yn un personol iawn. Mae'n rhaid ichi wybod ei fod yn iawn i chi. Fodd bynnag, rwyf hefyd am anfon neges at unrhyw un sy’n gwrando heddiw sydd ar hyn o bryd yn dioddef o iselder, sef: hyd yn oed o'r mannau tywyllaf, gallwch ddod yn ôl. Waeth pa mor anodd y gallai fod nawr, gallwch ei frwydro. Gwn fod hynny’n wir, am fy mod i wedi gwneud hynny.

David Rees: Mental illness is seen as one of the greatest causes of misery in our society, and it indiscriminately touches individuals and families across Wales. How many times have we heard in this Chamber that a quarter of us will experience mental health problems, or mental illness, at some point in our life? Today, we have seen Assembly Members step outside the bubble in which we normally find ourselves, and we have heard from some of those one in four people. We can see how close it comes to us. I hugely respect their actions today. These people have experienced it and, by sharing their personal experiences, they wish to encourage others to realise that it is not a stigma, and that it can be tackled.

David Rees: Mae salwch meddwl yn cael ei ystyried fel un o achosion mwyaf trallod yn ein cymdeithas, ac mae'n effeithio’n ddiwahân ar unigolion a theuluoedd ledled Cymru. Sawl gwaith yr ydym ni wedi clywed yn y Siambr hon y bydd chwarter ohonom yn profi problemau iechyd meddwl, neu salwch meddwl, ar ryw adeg yn ein bywyd? Heddiw, rydym wedi gweld Aelodau'r Cynulliad yn camu y tu allan i'r swigen yr ydym fel arfer yn rhan ohoni, ac rydym wedi clywed gan rai o'r un o bob pedwar hynny. Gallwn weld pa mor agos y mae’n effeithio arnom. Rwy'n parchu eu gweithredoedd heddiw yn enfawr. Mae'r bobl hyn wedi ei brofi a, thrwy rannu eu profiadau personol, meant am annog eraill i sylweddoli nad yw’n stigma, ac y gellir mynd i’r afael ag ef.

 

Others of us may see it when a close family member suffers, and we then understand the hardships that are faced by the individual when seeking support and treatment. They often want to keep details suppressed, or, at best, confined within a close circle of friends and family with whom they feel comfortable. Coping with a mental health condition is difficult enough, without the added burden of overcoming discrimination. However, all too often, people with mental health problems find that their lives are blighted by the prejudice, ignorance and fear that surround them. We are not just talking about occasional bullying, or the odd insensitive depiction in the media, we are talking about the innate discrimination that acts as a barrier to almost every aspect of a healthy life.

Gall eraill ohonom ei weld pan fydd aelod agos o'r teulu yn dioddef, ac yna byddwn yn deall y caledi a wynebir gan yr unigolyn wrth geisio cymorth a thriniaeth. Maent yn aml yn awyddus i gadw manylion yn breifat, neu, o leiaf, wedi’u cyfyngu o fewn cylch agos o ffrindiau a theulu y maent yn teimlo'n gyfforddus â hwy. Mae ymdopi â chyflwr iechyd meddwl yn ddigon anodd, heb y baich ychwanegol o oresgyn gwahaniaethu. Fodd bynnag, yn rhy aml, mae pobl â phroblemau iechyd meddwl yn cael bod eu bywydau wedi’u difetha gan y rhagfarn, yr anwybodaeth a’r ofn sydd o'u cwmpas. Nid dim ond am fwlio achlysurol, neu bortread ansensitif yn y cyfryngau o bryd i’w gilydd yr ydym yn sôn, ond am y gwahaniaethu cynhenid ​​sy'n gweithredu fel rhwystr i bron bob agwedd ar fywyd iach.

 

Due to that stigma, secrecy appears to be a natural, adaptive response to dealing with this illness. On a daily basis, secrecy has stopped people from working, from socialising, or from living a full life. On top of this, it has stopped as many as two thirds of people who have mental ill health from seeking treatment. When they seek treatment, there is concern as to whether they will receive the appropriate care and recognition of their condition. A recent report from Gofal has indicated that 62% of people waited more than a month for a comprehensive mental health assessment with their GP and 37% waited longer than three months. Also, nearly half said that their treatment only partly addressed their problems, or did not help at all.

Oherwydd y stigma hwnnw, ymddengys fod cyfrinachedd yn ymateb naturiol, ymaddasol i ddelio â'r salwch hwn. O ddydd i ddydd, mae cyfrinachedd wedi atal pobl rhag gweithio, rhag cymdeithasu, neu rhag byw bywyd i’r eithaf. At hyn, mae wedi rhwystro cynifer â dau o bob tri pherson sydd â salwch meddwl rhag ceisio triniaeth. Pan fyddant yn ceisio triniaeth, mae pryder ynghylch a fyddant yn cael y gofal a’r gydnabyddiaeth briodol o'u cyflwr. Mae adroddiad diweddar gan Gofal wedi nodi bod 62% o bobl wedi aros mwy na mis am asesiad iechyd meddwl cynhwysfawr gyda'u meddyg teulu a bod 37% wedi aros mwy na thri mis. Hefyd, dywedodd bron hanner mai dim ond yn rhannol yr oedd eu triniaeth wedi mynd i’r afael â’u problemau, neu nad oedd wedi helpu o gwbl.

 

I wish to give the example of a young constituent of mine who has experienced similar behaviour. That person was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder, which affected the whole family considerably. She was placed on a medication that, unfortunately, left her very tired and wanting to sleep all day. That is not a recipe for helping that person back into work and the wider society. This young person was on jobseeker’s allowance and desperately wanted to get a job, so she stopped taking the medication to ensure a clear head and the ability to present herself in a good light to prospective employers. Unfortunately, this also impacted on her behaviour and sleep patterns. Her next appointment with the specialist was five months away, so a visit to the GP was the natural choice. A 5.00 p.m. appointment resulted in a one and a half hour wait to see the GP, where she explained her circumstances while in an emotional state. It ended up with the doctor, who was ready to go home, shrugging his shoulders, and asking what she wanted him to do. A quick solution was prescribed, with the previous medication at a lower dosage. That person went home in tears, and in a state of confusion and helplessness. Since then, that young person has struggled on, not able to take the new medication as it would have meant that she would not be able to work or drive, and her family feel let down by her GP. Stigma must be tackled in society, but we must also ensure that the care services provide the desperately needed support and treatment in a timely manner. What do we see on the occasions when that does not happen? I think that what this is really telling us is that the attitude of GPs and waiting times need to improve—not my words, but those of Gofal director, Ewan Hilton.

Dymunaf roi enghraifft o un o’m hetholwyr ifanc sydd wedi dioddef ymddygiad tebyg. Cafodd ei diagnosio ag anhwylder deubegwn, a oedd yn effeithio ar y teulu cyfan yn sylweddol. Cafodd ei rhoi ar feddyginiaeth a barodd iddi, yn anffodus, fod yn flinedig iawn ac eisiau cysgu drwy'r dydd. Nid yw hynny'n ei helpu i ddychwelyd i'r gwaith a'r gymdeithas ehangach. Roedd ar lwfans ceisio gwaith ac yn wirioneddol awyddus i gael swydd, felly rhoddodd y gorau i gymryd y feddyginiaeth er mwyn sicrhau bod ei phen yn glir a'i bod yn gallu cyflwyno ei hun mewn goleuni da i ddarpar gyflogwyr. Yn anffodus, effeithiodd hyn hefyd ar ei hymddygiad a’i phatrymau cwsg. Roedd ei hapwyntiad nesaf gyda'r arbenigwr bum mis i ffwrdd, felly roedd ymweld â’r meddyg teulu yn ddewis naturiol. Trefnwyd apwyntiad am 5.00pm ond bu’n rhaid iddi aros am awr a hanner i weld ei meddyg teulu, lle yr esboniodd ei hamgylchiadau tra mewn cyflwr emosiynol. Daeth ei hapwyntiad i ben gyda’r meddyg, a oedd yn barod i fynd adref, yn codi ei ysgwyddau, ac yn gofyn beth oedd am iddo ei wneud. Rhagnodwyd ateb cyflym, gyda’r feddyginiaeth flaenorol ar ddogn is. Aeth adref yn ei dagrau, ac mewn cyflwr o ddryswch a diymadferthedd. Ers hynny, mae wedi ei chael hi’n anodd, heb allu cymryd y feddyginiaeth newydd gan y byddai wedi golygu na allai weithio na gyrru, ac mae ei theulu yn teimlo bod ei meddyg teulu wedi eu siomi. Rhaid mynd i'r afael â stigma yn y gymdeithas, ond rhaid inni hefyd sicrhau bod y gwasanaethau gofal yn darparu'r cymorth a’r driniaeth sydd eu hangen yn enbyd mewn modd amserol. Beth a welwn ar yr achlysuron pa na fydd hynny’n digwydd? Credaf mai’r hyn a ddysgwn mewn gwirionedd yw bod angen i agweddau meddygon teulu ac amseroedd aros wella—nid fy ngeiriau i, ond geiriau cyfarwyddwr Gofal, Ewan Hilton.

 

As a final point, to further emphasise why this is something that can no longer be swept under the carpet, the World Health Organization predicts that by 2030 depression will be the leading cause of physical or mental illness around the world. According to the World Health Organization, depression is more disabling than angina, arthritis, asthma and diabetes. I am pleased that here, in Wales, there is recognition of the impending impact if no action is taken. I applaud the Time to Change campaign, which attacks the stigma that many face, and I seriously applaud those Members here today who are speaking of their own experiences.

Fel pwynt olaf, er mwyn pwysleisio ymhellach pam bod hyn yn rhywbeth na ellir ei anwybyddu mwyach, mae Sefydliad Iechyd y Byd yn rhagweld erbyn 2030 mai iselder fydd prif achos salwch corfforol neu salwch meddwl ledled y byd. Yn ôl Sefydliad Iechyd y Byd, mae iselder yn fwy llesteiriol nag angina, arthritis, asthma a diabetes. Rwy’n falch bod cydnabyddiaeth yma, yng Nghymru, o’r effaith debygol os na chymerir unrhyw gamau gweithredu. Rwy'n canmol ymgyrch Amser i Newid, sy'n mynd i’r afael â’r stigma a wynebir gan lawer, ac yn canmol o ddifrif yr Aelodau hynny yma heddiw sy’n siarad am eu profiadau eu hunain.

David Melding: We should all celebrate the launch of the Time to Change campaign in Wales. It was a wonderfully successful campaign in England and is still running. It has been modified for Wales and will be an outstanding success. It aims to end stigma and I think that that is a wonderful objective. It is quite remarkable that one in four people believe that those with mental health problems or who have had them in the past should not hold public office. I have to say, as a Welsh Conservative, I am used to the fact that three out of four people in Wales do not believe that Tories should hold public office. [Laughter.] However, I believe that that is based on political preference and not on any assessment of one’s medical health.

David Melding: Dylai pob un ohonom ddathlu lansiad ymgyrch Amser i Newid yng Nghymru. Bu’n ymgyrch hynod lwyddiannus yn Lloegr ac mae’n dal i redeg. Mae wedi ei haddasu i Gymru a bydd yn llwyddiant ysgubol. Ei nod yw rhoi terfyn ar stigma a chredaf fod hynny yn amcan gwych. Mae'n eithaf rhyfeddol bod un o bob pedwar person yn credu na ddylai'r rhai sydd â phroblemau iechyd meddwl neu sydd wedi cael problemau o’r fath yn y gorffennol ddal swydd gyhoeddus. Rhaid imi ddweud, fel Ceidwadwr Cymreig, rwyf wedi arfer â’r ffaith nad yw tri o bob pedwar person yng Nghymru yn credu y dylai Torïaid ddal swydd gyhoeddus. [Chwerthin.] Fodd bynnag, credaf fod hynny'n seiliedig ar ddewis gwleidyddol ac nid ar unrhyw asesiad o iechyd meddygol unigolion.

 

We need to challenge these perceptions because they inadvertently hold many in the lock of illness and anxiety when they could be on the road to recovery. This stigma stems from fear because it is so pervasive; mental illness is a common condition and people often fear talking about common conditions, perhaps psychologically because they fear catching them in some strange way, as if they were contagious.

Mae angen inni herio'r canfyddiadau hyn am eu bod yn anfwriadol yn gwaethygu sefyllfa llawer sy’n wynebu salwch a gorbryder pan allent fod ar wella. Mae'r stigma hwn yn deillio o ofn oherwydd ei fod mor dreiddiol; mae salwch meddwl yn gyflwr cyffredin ac yn aml mae pobl yn ofni siarad am gyflyrau cyffredin, efallai am resymau seicolegol oherwydd eu bod yn ofni eu dal mewn rhyw ffordd ryfedd, fel pe baent yn heintus.

 

The human mind is probably the most wonderful creation in the universe. We may meet more intelligent Martians at some point—who knows what will happen in the future—but until that point, we have inherited biology’s most wonderful creation, namely the human brain. However, with this awesome gift comes a sense of vulnerability because we are occasionally prone to mental distress. The complexity of the brain has many side-effects, but I am sure that we all believe that the powers of the imagination and the way in which we can anticipate things in general, so that we can improve our lives, is a glory and what human achievement has been based on. However, if you can anticipate good things, you can also anticipate bad things—you can worry about them—and only a slight imbalance in the brain’s chemistry can make many people more prone to life’s trials and tribulations, which may seem very routine to others.

Y meddwl dynol yn ôl pob tebyg yw un o’r creadigaethau mwyaf rhyfeddol yn y bydysawd. Efallai y byddwn yn cwrdd â Marsiaid mwy deallus ar ryw bwynt—pwy a ŵyr beth fydd yn digwydd yn y dyfodol—ond tan hynny, rydym wedi etifeddu creadigaeth fwyaf rhyfeddol bioleg, sef yr ymennydd dynol. Fodd bynnag, gyda’r rhodd anhygoel hwn daw ymdeimlad o fod yn agored i niwed am ein bod o bryd i’w gilydd yn dueddol o wynebu trallod meddwl. Mae gan gymhlethdod yr ymennydd lawer o sgîl-effeithiau, ond rwy’n siŵr ein bod i gyd yn credu bod pwerau’r dychymyg a'r ffordd y gallwn ragweld pethau yn gyffredinol, fel y gallwn wella ein bywydau, yn ogoniant ac mai ar hyn y seiliwyd cyflawniad dynol. Fodd bynnag, os gallwch ragweld pethau da, gallwch hefyd ragweld pethau gwael—gallwch boeni amdanynt—a dim ond anghydbwysedd bach yng nghemeg yr ymennydd all wneud pobl yn fwy agored i hynt a helynt bywyd, a all ymddangos yn gyffredin iawn i bobl eraill.

 

Let us remember that few of us will enjoy the normal full span of life without a significant illness or disability. It is part of the human condition to be ill. It has led to many of our most basic, profound and humane attitudes; it is nothing to be ashamed of. You may be one of life’s most extraordinary people and sail through life never having to face illness, and then die peacefully in your sleep aged 95, but there will not be many people in that happy situation. So, mental illness is not in some sort of separate, extraordinary category; it is very much the stuff of life. One of the wonders of modern science is that all sorts of illnesses are much more amenable to treatment, therapy and even cure. That is certainly true of mental illnesses. So, we should celebrate the fact that when people can acknowledge a difficulty and realise they need help, they can then access very effective interventions. Is it not sad that many people, despite this great hope there is out there for treatment, suffer in silence? By ending stigma, we will certainly see more and more people coming forward to seek support.

Gadewch inni gofio mai ychydig ohonom fydd yn mwynhau rhychwant llawn arferol bywyd heb salwch neu anabledd sylweddol. Mae bod yn sâl yn rhan o’r cyflwr dynol. Mae wedi arwain at lawer o'n hagweddau mwyaf sylfaenol, dwys a thrugarog; nid yw’n rhywbeth i fod â chywilydd ohono. Gallech fod yn un o’r bobl fwyaf eithriadol yn y byd a hwylio drwy eich bywyd heb orfod wynebu salwch, ac yna farw’n heddychlon yn eich cwsg yn 95 oed, ond ni fydd llawer o bobl yn y sefyllfa hapus honno. Felly, nid yw salwch meddwl mewn rhyw fath o gategori arbennig, ar wahân; mae'n rhywbeth cyffredin. Un o ryfeddodau gwyddoniaeth fodern yw bod pob math o salwch yn llawer mwy agored i driniaeth, therapi a hyd yn oed gwella. Mae hynny'n sicr yn wir am salwch meddwl. Felly, dylem ddathlu'r ffaith pan fydd pobl yn gallu cydnabod anhawster a sylweddoli bod angen help arnynt, gallant wedyn fanteisio ar ymyriadau effeithiol iawn. Onid yw'n drist bod llawer o bobl, er gwaethaf y gobaith mawr am driniaeth, yn dioddef yn dawel? Drwy roi terfyn ar stigma, byddwn yn sicr yn gweld mwy o bobl yn dod ymlaen i geisio cymorth.

 

After the publication of the article in The Western Mail this morning, I have received many messages, both orally and via e-mail, from friends and from many Assembly Members. Those expressions of support are a great help. I believe that by speaking candidly about mental health issues, I believe that we can encourage the whole of society to take a similar attitude to those they know who are suffering from or who are prone to mental distress.

Ar ôl cyhoeddi'r erthygl yn The Western Mail y bore yma, rwyf wedi derbyn nifer o negeseuon, ar lafar a thrwy e-bost, gan ffrindiau a chan lawer o Aelodau'r Cynulliad. Mae’r mynegiannau hynny o gefnogaeth yn help mawr. Credaf drwy siarad yn agored am faterion iechyd meddwl, gallwn annog y gymdeithas gyfan i fabwysiadu agwedd debyg at y rheini y maent yn gwybod eu bod yn dioddef o drallod meddwl neu sy'n dueddol o ddioddef trallod meddwl.

2.45 p.m.

I will not talk at length about my own experiences, because the clock is against us—I see that the Presiding Officer commends me in that aspiration. [Laughter.] Over 10 years ago, in the old Chamber, I think I was the first Welsh politician to talk in a public forum about my mental health challenges. I was received very politely, and people talked to me privately afterwards. However, on this occasion, I sense that there has been real public engagement, which is also very much present here in the Assembly. We must build on this goodwill and ensure that we take this aspiration forward to put an end to stigma and to say to people who have mental illnesses, 'There is treatment, there is often a cure and there is therapy—get out and seek support.’

Ni siaradaf yn faith am fy mhrofiadau fy hun, gan fod amser yn brin—gwelaf fod y Llywydd yn fy nghanmol am hynny. [Chwerthin.] Dros 10 mlynedd yn ôl, yn yr hen Siambr, credaf mai fi oedd y gwleidydd Cymreig cyntaf i siarad mewn fforwm cyhoeddus am fy heriau iechyd meddwl. Cefais ymateb cwrtais iawn, a death pobl ataf i siarad â mi’n breifat ar ôl hynny. Fodd bynnag, y tro hwn, rwy’n synhwyro ymgysylltiad gwirioneddol â’r cyhoedd, sydd hefyd yn wir yma yn y Cynulliad. Rhaid inni adeiladu ar yr ewyllys da hwn a sicrhau ein bod yn gweithredu ar y dyhead hwn i roi terfyn ar stigma a dweud wrth bobl sydd â salwch meddwl, 'Mae triniaeth ar gael, yn aml mae modd gwella, ac mae therapy ar gael—ewch allan a cheisio cymorth’.

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Mae nifer o’r cyfeillion sydd wedi cyfrannu at y ddadl heddiw wedi sôn am yr ystadegyn bod un o bob pedwar person yn dioddef o salwch meddwl ar ryw adeg yn ei fywyd. Rhaid imi ddweud, pan glywais yr ystadegyn hwnnw am y tro cyntaf, yn gymharol ddiweddar, dyna’r foment y sylweddolais nad oedd yr hyn yr oeddwn wedi’i ddioddef nifer o flynyddoedd yn ôl mor rhyfedd neu annormal ag yr oeddwn wedi’i feddwl.

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Several of the colleagues who have contributed to the debate today have mentioned the statistic that one in four people will suffer from mental illness at some point in their lives. I must say that, when I heard that statistic for the first time, relatively recently, that was the moment that I realised that what I had suffered from a number of years ago was not as odd or abnormal as I had thought.

Bron 10 mlynedd yn ôl cefais ddiagnosis o iselder ysbryd. Nid yw sefyll mewn ystafell yn crio am ddim rheswm amlwg yn rhywbeth y byddai dyn ifanc 30 oed, ar y pryd, yn cyfaddef yn hawdd iawn, ond dyna oedd fy mhrofiad yn y cyfnod hwnnw. Wrth gwrs, cuddiais y peth—a hynny’n dda iawn; dim ond fy ngwraig oedd yn ymwybodol o’m salwch. Byddwn bob amser yn dweud wrthyf fy hun y byddai’r iselder yn pasio ac y byddem yn teimlo’n well yfory. Fodd bynnag, nid oedd yr yfory hwnnw’n cyrraedd. Ar ôl misoedd diddiwedd o geisio ymdopi, o guddio’r salwch a gwadu fy mod yn sâl, derbyniais fod angen help meddygol arnaf. Euthum at fy meddyg teulu a’m cyfeiriodd at fy nhîm iechyd meddwl cymunedol lleol ac fe ddechreuais ar y llwybr i wella.

Nearly 10 years ago I was diagnosed with depression. Standing in a room crying for no apparent reason is not something that a young, 30-year-old man at the time would easily admit to, but that was my experience during that period. Of course, I hid it, and did so very well; only my wife was aware of my illness. I would tell myself that the depression would pass and that I would feel better tomorrow. However, that tomorrow never came. After endless months of trying to cope, of hiding the illness and denying that I was ill, I accepted that I needed medical help. I approached my GP and was referred to my local community mental health team and I started on the road to recovery.

Roedd siarad am fy salwch yn helpu i leddfu rhywfaint o’r pwysau roeddwn yn teimlo oedd ar fy ysgwyddau, ond roedd y trafod hwnnw wedi’i gyfyngu’n ofalus iawn i’r tîm iechyd meddwl cymunedol a’m gwraig. Hyd yn oed heddiw, nid oes gan y rhan fwyaf o’m ffrindiau a’m mherthnasau syniad fy mod wedi bod yn sâl. Bydd llawer ohonynt yn darganfod hynny, mae’n debyg, yn sgîl y ddadl hon y prynhawn yma. Nid wyf am iddynt gael eu synnu neu fod yn drist, ac yn bendant nid wyf am iddynt deimlo’n euog o gwbl; roeddwn yn sâl, ond rwy’n well yn awr. Rwyf am i bawb wybod fy mod yn well, oherwydd bydd hynny’n dangos i bobl eraill â salwch meddwl y gallant hwy wella hefyd.

Talking about my illness helped to alleviate some of the pressure that I felt was on my shoulders, but that discussion was very carefully restricted to the community mental health team and to my wife. Even today, most of my friends and relatives have no idea that I had been ill. Many of them will most likely learn of my illness as a result of this debate this afternoon. I do not want them to be shocked or to be sad, and certainly I do not want them to feel at all guilty; I was ill, but now I am better. I want everyone to know that I am better, because that will show others with mental illness that they, too, can get better.

Ni ddylai pobl orfod ddioddef mewn distawrwydd am eu bod yn credu nad yw’n dderbyniol iddynt gael salwch meddwl. Nid ydych ar eich pen eich hunain. Mae un o bob pedwar yn lot o bobl; mae’n chwarter y boblogaeth. Er enghraifft, gallai pump neu chwech o chwaraewr carfan rygbi Cymru ddioddef rywbryd o broblemau iechyd meddwl, neu 160 o Aelodau Seneddol neu, fel rydym wedi’i glywed, 15 Aelod o’r Cynulliad hwn ym mae Caerdydd. Rwyf i yn rhan o’r chwarter hwnnw o’r boblogaeth a fydd yn profi salwch meddwl, ac, ers cael fy ethol fel Aelod Cynulliad y llynedd, rwyf hyd yn oed yn fwy penderfynol o helpu i herio’r stigma a’r agweddau negyddol sy’n cael eu coleddu gan rai tuag at faterion iechyd meddwl.

People should not have to suffer in silence because that they think that it is not acceptable for them to be mentally ill. You are not alone. One in four is a lot of people; it is a quarter of the population. For example, five or six players in the Welsh rugby squad could suffer from mental health problems, or 160 Members of Parliament, or, as we have heard, 15 Assembly Members here in Cardiff bay. I am part of that quarter of the population that will experience mental illness, and, since being elected an Assembly Member last year, I am even more determined to help to challenge the stigma and negative attitudes that some hold with regards to mental health issues.

Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gwneud tipyn ar gyfer gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl, ond rwyf am fynd ymhellach. Mae angen cyflwyno gweithwyr cyswllt i gefnogi cleifion a gofalwyr, a hyfforddi staff mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys i adnabod arwyddion o salwch meddwl er mwyn gallu cyfeirio pobl i gael cymorth. Mae angen rhoi’r gorau i leoli plant ar wardiau iechyd meddwl i oedolion. Rwyf am i apwyntiadau dilynol gael eu trefnu pan fo pobl yn methu apwyntiadau, fel nad yw pobl yn mynd yn angof. Rwyf hefyd yn teimlo’n gryf y dylai rhan o etifeddiaeth y Gemau Olympaidd ymwneud â hyrwyddo ac atgyfnerthu’r cysylltiadau cadarnhaol rhwng yr awyr agored, ymarfer corff a lles meddwl.

The Welsh Government has done quite a bit with regard to mental health services, but I want to go further. We need to introduce link workers to support patients and carers, and to train staff in accident and emergency departments to identify the signs of mental illness so that people can be referred to get help. We need to stop placing children on adult mental health wards. I want follow-up appointments arranged when people miss appointments, so that people do not fall through the net. I also feel strongly that part of the legacy of the Olympic Games should be about promoting and strengthening the positive links between the outdoors, exercise and mental wellbeing.

O edrych yn ôl, roeddwn yn amharod i wynebu fy salwch meddwl oherwydd ofn: ofn beth y gallai pobl ei feddwl ac ofn beth y gallai pobl ei ddweud. Yn awr, fel y mae teitl yr ymgyrch sy’n destun i’r cynnig hwn heddiw yn ei ddweud, mae’n amser i newid. Mae’n amser i newid agweddau pobl sy’n coleddu rhagfarnau a chanfyddiadau anghywir am faterion iechyd meddwl. Mae’n amser i newid y stigma a’r gwahaniaethu sy’n cael eu profi gan naw o bob 10 o bobl sydd â phrofiad o salwch meddwl. Mae’n amser i newid yr ofn ymhlith cymdeithas fod trafod materion iechyd meddwl yn rhyw fath o dabŵ ac yn rhywbeth na ddylech ei wneud mewn gwirionedd. Wedi’r cwbl, mae un o bob pedwar yn lot o bobl.

Looking back, I was unwilling to face my mental illness because of fear: fear of what people might think and fear of what people might say. Now, as the title of the campaign that is the subject of this motion today states, it is time to change. It is time to change the attitudes of those who are prejudiced or have incorrect perceptions about mental health issues. It is time to change the stigma and discrimination experienced by nine in 10 of those who have experienced mental illness. It is time to change the fear in society that talking about mental health issues is taboo and something that simply should not be done. After all, one in every four is a lot of people.

Kirsty Williams: Briefly, I would like to add to today’s debate, and to pledge the Welsh Liberal Democrats group’s support to the Time to Change Wales campaign. I take this opportunity to publicly congratulate and commend colleagues in this Chamber on their frankness and courage in speaking so openly here today, and, in particular, to say how good it is to hear from David Melding from the benches. David, your elevation to Deputy Presiding Officer has robbed this Chamber of your wit and oratory, so it was wonderful to hear you speaking from the benches once again. I pay tribute to you for your long commitment to trying to talk about these issues and address them.

Kirsty Williams: Yn fyr, hoffwn ychwanegu at y ddadl heddiw, ac addo cefnogaeth grŵp Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru i ymgyrch Amser i Newid Cymru. Hoffwn achub ar y cyfle hwn i longyfarch a chymeradwyo cyd-Aelodau yn gyhoeddus yn y Siambr hon ar eu gonestrwydd a’u dewrder wrth siarad mor agored yma heddiw, ac, yn benodol, ddweud pa mor dda yw hi i glywed gan David Melding o'r meinciau. David, mae’r Siambr yn colli allan ar eich ffraethineb a’ch areithiau yn sgil eich dyrchafiad yn Ddirprwy Lywydd, felly roedd yn wych eich clywed yn siarad o’r meinciau unwaith eto. Talaf deyrnged ichi am eich ymrwymiad hir i geisio siarad am y materion hyn a mynd i’r afael â hwy.

I truly believe that this Assembly and successive Welsh Governments have tried very hard to address issues around mental ill health. Since our creation in 1999 we have tried to ensure that mental health services no longer remained cinderella services within the health service. We tried to champion a much more enlightened legislative approach to mental ill health when, perhaps, Governments in Westminster were ploughing a much more regressive furrow. Despite that, as we have heard today, we have failed to make serious inroads into how the general population feels about people who suffer from mental ill health and our ability to tackle the stigma that surrounds it. That is why the actions of our four colleagues here today is particularly important in being able, for a change, to see in the media such positive stories about mental ill health, and how positive outcomes and recovery are possible.

Credaf yn wirioneddol bod y Cynulliad hwn a Llywodraethau olynol Cymru wedi ceisio’n galed iawn i fynd i'r afael â materion yn ymwneud â salwch meddwl. Ers inni gael ein creu yn 1999, rydym wedi ceisio sicrhau nad yw gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl yn parhau i fod yn wasanaethau sinderela o fewn y gwasanaeth iechyd. Aethom ati i hyrwyddo ymagwedd ddeddfwriaethol fwy goleuedig o lawer at salwch meddwl pan oedd Llywodraethau yn San Steffan, o bosibl, yn mabwysiadu ymagwedd fwy atchweliadol o lawer. Er hynny, fel yr ydym wedi clywed heddiw, rydym wedi methu ag ymchwilio o ddifrif i’r ffordd y mae’r boblogaeth gyffredinol yn teimlo am bobl sy'n dioddef o salwch meddwl a’n gallu i fynd i'r afael â'r stigma sydd ynghlwm wrtho. Dyna pam bod gweithredoedd ein pedwar cydweithiwr yma heddiw yn arbennig o bwysig o ran gallu gweld, am newid, storïau mor gadarnhaol am salwch meddwl yn y cyfryngau, a sut y mae’n bosibl cael canlyniadau cadarnhaol a gwella.

So often in our media mental ill health is portrayed in a negative way and in a way that focuses on the many bad aspects of it, rather than the positive outcomes that can be enjoyed. However, as David Rees says, we still have a way to go, and, as Llyr has just outlined, there are still so many things that we could do better. However, I believe that today’s debate, and the contributions and courage of our colleagues, will go a long way towards driving this agenda forward one more time, and I pay tribute to them.

Caiff salwch meddwl ei bortreadu mor aml mewn ffordd negyddol ac mewn ffordd sy'n canolbwyntio ar yr agweddau gwael niferus arno, yn hytrach na'r canlyniadau cadarnhaol y gellir eu mwynhau. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywed David Rees, mae gennym gryn dipyn o waith i’w wneud o hyd, ac, fel y mae Llyr newydd ei amlinellu, mae cymaint o bethau y gallem eu gwneud yn well. Fodd bynnag, credaf y bydd dadl heddiw, a chyfraniadau a dewrder ein cydweithwyr, yn mynd yn bell tuag at lywio’r agenda hon unwaith yn rhagor, a thalaf deyrnged iddynt.

 

Rebecca Evans: I am very grateful to Members for bringing forward this debate today, and I am filled with respect for the Members who have spoken so openly about their own experiences of mental ill health, both here in the Chamber and in the media. I am sure that the testimonies of Assembly Members will serve to inspire and challenge and will be an important milestone in braking down the stigma, discrimination and silence that still surrounds mental ill health.

Rebecca Evans: Rwy’n ddiolchgar iawn i'r Aelodau am gyflwyno'r ddadl hon heddiw, ac rwy’n llawn parch at yr Aelodau sydd wedi siarad mor agored am eu profiadau eu hunain o salwch meddwl, yma yn y Siambr ac yn y cyfryngau. Rwy’n siŵr y bydd tystiolaeth Aelodau'r Cynulliad yn fodd i ysbrydoli a herio a bydd yn garreg filltir bwysig o ran dileu’r stigma, y gwahaniaethu a’r distawrwydd sy'n dal i fod yn gysylltiedig â salwch meddwl.

There is no doubt that we have come a long way in terms of our understanding and acceptance of mental ill health. However, there is still a long way to go. We have heard about the four in 10 people who think that people who have had a mental illness should not be allowed to hold public office. As the law currently stands, it thinks the same. There has been a long tradition of discriminating against people with mental ill health and of preventing them from playing their full part in public life. Under the Mental Health Act 1983, a Member of this Assembly would automatically lose their seat if they were detained under the Act for six months or more. The Juries Act 1974 excludes people who are voluntarily receiving treatment for mental health conditions from jury service, and the Companies (Model Articles) Regulations 2008 provide for the termination of a company director’s appointment by reason of mental ill health. All of that feeds into the outdated and negative perception that people with mental ill health cannot be trusted to participate in social, political or economic life. It promotes the incorrect perception that people can never fully recover from mental ill health, which is absolutely not the case. It promotes a sense of hopelessness that people experiencing mental ill health cannot find strategies or treatments that will enable them to cope from day to day.

Nid oes amheuaeth ein bod wedi gwneud cryn gynnydd o ran ein dealltwriaeth o salwch meddwl a’r ffaith ein bod yn ei dderbyn. Fodd bynnag, mae cryn dipyn i’w wneud o hyd. Rydym wedi clywed am y pedwar o bob 10 sy'n credu na ddylai pobl sydd wedi cael salwch meddwl gael yr hawl i ddal swydd gyhoeddus. Mae’r gyfraith fel ag y mae o’r un farn. Bu traddodiad hir o wahaniaethu yn erbyn pobl â salwch meddwl ac o'u hatal rhag chwarae eu rhan lawn mewn bywyd cyhoeddus. O dan Ddeddf Iechyd Meddwl 1983, byddai Aelod o'r Cynulliad hwn yn colli ei sedd yn awtomatig pe câi ei gadw o dan y Ddeddf am chwe mis neu fwy. Mae Deddf Rheithgorau 1974 yn eithrio pobl sy'n cael triniaeth yn wirfoddol am gyflyrau iechyd meddwl rhag gwasanaethu ar reithgor, ac mae Rheoliadau Cwmnïau (Erthyglau Enghreifftiol) 2008 yn darparu ar gyfer terfynu penodiad cyfarwyddwr cwmni oherwydd salwch meddwl. Mae hynny i gyd yn ategu’r canfyddiad hen-ffasiwn a negyddol na ellir ymddiried mewn pobl â salwch meddwl i gymryd rhan mewn bywyd cymdeithasol, gwleidyddol nac economaidd. Mae'n hyrwyddo’r canfyddiad anghywir na all pobl fyth wella’n llwyr o salwch meddwl, sy’n gwbl anghywir. Mae'n hyrwyddo ymdeimlad o anobaith na all pobl sy'n profi salwch meddwl ddod o hyd i strategaethau neu driniaethau a fydd yn eu galluogi i ymdopi o ddydd i ddydd.

 

However, fortunately, there are moves to make these legal provisions a thing of the past, and I am very pleased to see the backbench Mental Health (Discrimination) (No. 2) Bill before the UK Parliament at this time. The Bill, which has cross-party support, seeks to repeal these outdated and discriminatory provisions and it enjoys the full support of Mind, Rethink Mental Illness, the Royal College of Psychiatrists and the Law Society.

Fodd bynnag, yn ffodus, mae camau ar droed i ddileu’r darpariaethau cyfreithiol hyn, ac rwy'n falch iawn o weld Bil Iechyd Meddwl (Gwahaniaethu) (Rhif 2) y meinciau cefn gerbron Senedd y DU ar hyn o bryd. Mae'r Bil, sydd â chymorth trawsbleidiol, yn ceisio diddymu’r darpariaethau hyn sydd wedi dyddio ac yn wahaniaethol ac mae'n mwynhau cefnogaeth lawn Mind, Rethink Mental Illness, Coleg Brenhinol y Seiciatryddion a Chymdeithas y Cyfreithwyr.

 

When the Bill was introduced to Parliament, four MPs did what some of our Assembly Members have done today: they spoke out about their own experiences of mental ill health, including depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, obsessive compulsive disorder and post-natal depression. Then, as now, it was a brave, surprising and inspiring thing to do and was met with warm applause across the UK. Speaking out has sent a powerful message that it is okay to talk about mental health in the workplace and that people with mental ill health can, and do, hold down jobs successfully and make an important contribution to the workplace. Sadly, however, Time to Change has reported that two in three people with mental ill health say that they feel that worry about the stigma of mental ill health has stopped them from telling an employer or a potential employer about their condition. Half said that it has prevented them from applying for a job and more than a third said that it had stopped them from seeking professional help for their mental health problem. Stigmatisation and discrimination are, sadly, alive and well, but they have no place in Wales today. It is, indeed, time to change.

Pan gyflwynwyd y Bil gerbron y Senedd, gwnaeth pedwar AS yr un peth ag y gwnaeth rhai o’n Haelodau Cynulliad heddiw: gwnaethant siarad am eu profiadau eu hunain o salwch meddwl, gan gynnwys iselder, gorbryder, meddyliau hunanladdol, anhwylder gorfodaeth obsesiynol ac iselder ôl-enedigol. Bryd hynny, fel yn awr, yr oedd yn beth dewr, rhyfeddol ac ysbrydoledig i’w wneud a chafodd gymeradwyaeth wresog ledled y DU. Mae siarad am y peth wedi cyfleu neges bwerus ei bod yn dderbyniol siarad am iechyd meddwl yn y gweithle a bod pobl â salwch meddwl yn gallu dal swyddi yn llwyddiannus a gwneud cyfraniad pwysig at y gweithle a’u bod yn gwneud hynny. Yn anffodus, fodd bynnag, mae Amser i Newid wedi nodi bod dau o bob tri pherson sydd â salwch meddwl yn dweud eu bod yn teimlo bod pryderu am y stigma sy’n gysylltiedig â salwch meddwl wedi eu rhwystro rhag dweud wrth gyflogwr neu ddarpar gyflogwr posibl am eu cyflwr. Dywedodd hanner ei fod wedi eu hatal rhag gwneud cais am swydd a dywedodd mwy na thraean ei fod wedi eu rhwystro rhag chwilio am gymorth proffesiynol ar gyfer eu problem iechyd meddwl. Mae creu stigma a gwahaniaethu, yn anffodus, yn fyw ac iach, ond nid oes iddynt le yng Nghymru heddiw. Mae, yn wir, yn amser i newid.

 

Darren Millar: I will start by paying tribute to David Melding, Eluned Parrott, Ken Skates and Llyr Huws Gruffydd for bringing this debate forward and for their honesty and openness in sharing in their own experiences of mental ill health. It really does strengthen an institution when people can bring their experiences to a debate. I also pay tribute to organisations such as Gofal, Hafal and Mind Cymru, which work in this field and are taking on the enormous task of trying to change public attitudes towards mental ill health.

Darren Millar: Rwyf am ddechrau drwy dalu teyrnged i David Melding, Eluned Parrott, Ken Skates a Llyr Huws Gruffydd am gyflwyno'r ddadl hon ac am eu gonestrwydd ac am fod yn agored wrth rannu eu profiadau eu hunain o salwch meddwl. Mae wir yn cryfhau sefydliad pan all pobl gyflwyno eu profiadau i ddadl. Rwyf hefyd yn talu teyrnged i sefydliadau megis Gofal, Hafal a Mind Cymru, sy'n gweithio yn y maes hwn ac yn gyfrifol am y dasg enfawr o geisio newid agweddau'r cyhoedd tuag at salwch meddwl.

 

We all know that mental health problems can present, at any time and in a variety of ways, in anybody. Given the statistic that up to a quarter of the Welsh population will, at one point, suffer from mental ill health, it is really important that we give this subject time in the Assembly Chamber. I am pleased that we have opportunities to discuss this on a regular basis and that we do so in a spirit of cross-party unity to try to address the very real problems that exist out there. It is true that people still hold some very misguided beliefs about mental ill health. One of the most peculiar beliefs is that people with mental health problems should not have children. It is quite astonishing that people should believe that or that they should believe that people with a mental health issue are always violent. We know that those are myths and we have to do the job of busting those myths as much as we can in order to eliminate those assumptions in the future.

Rydym i gyd yn gwybod y gall problemau iechyd meddwl ddigwydd, ar unrhyw adeg ac mewn amrywiaeth o ffyrdd, a hynny i bawb. O ystyried yr ystadegyn y bydd hyd at chwarter poblogaeth Cymru, ar un adeg, yn dioddef o salwch meddwl, mae'n bwysig iawn ein bod yn rhoi amser i drafod y pwnc hwn yn Siambr y Cynulliad. Rwy’n falch ein bod yn cael cyfle i drafod hyn yn rheolaidd, a'n bod yn gwneud hynny mewn undod trawsbleidiol i geisio mynd i'r afael â'r problemau real iawn sy'n bodoli. Mae’n wir bod pobl yn dal i arddel rhai credoau camarweiniol iawn am salwch meddwl. Un o'r credoau mwyaf rhyfedd yw na ddylai pobl â phroblemau iechyd meddwl gael plant. Mae'n eithaf rhyfeddol bod pobl yn credu hynny neu eu bod yn credu bod pobl â phroblem iechyd meddwl bob amser yn dreisgar. Gwyddom mai mythau yw’r rheini a bod yn rhaid inni fynd ati i geisio chwalu’r mythau hynny gymaint â phosibl er mwyn dileu’r rhagdybiaethau hynny yn y dyfodol.

 

The Time to Change campaign wants to raise awareness of this issue, and I hope that we can continue to play our part in supporting that campaign—not just here today, but in our constituencies across the country, raising awareness and doing what we can to encourage people to pay attention to it.

Mae ymgyrch Amser i Newid am godi ymwybyddiaeth o'r mater hwn, a gobeithiaf y gallwn barhau i chwarae ein rhan i gefnogi’r ymgyrch honno—nid dim ond yma heddiw, ond yn ein hetholaethau ledled y wlad, gan godi ymwybyddiaeth a gwneud yr hyn a allwn i annog pobl i roi sylw iddo.

 

I applaud the use of social media in the campaign. It has been great, as a regular twitterer, to keep visiting the tweets to get updates and to see what people are talking about. There is no doubt in my mind that the campaign has really taken off well today as a result of the media attention that it has received. I want to applaud the people who have been using Twitter to try to get the message out there.

Cymeradwyaf y defnydd o’r cyfryngau cymdeithasol yn yr ymgyrch. Mae wedi bod yn wych, fel un sy’n trydar yn rheolaidd, i edrych yn gyson ar y newyddion diweddaraf a gweld am beth y mae pobl yn siarad. Nid oes amheuaeth bod yr ymgyrch wedi dechrau’n dda heddiw o ganlyniad i’r sylw a gafodd yn y cyfryngau. Hoffwn gymeradwyo’r bobl sydd wedi bod yn defnyddio Twitter i geisio cyfleu’r neges.

 

As has already been said, it has been an effective campaign in England, and I know that there have been similar campaigns internationally on this issue, which have been extremely beneficial. I really hope that, after engaging in this campaign in Wales, we will see a marked difference in public attitudes towards mental ill health.

Fel y dywedwyd eisoes, mae wedi bod yn ymgyrch effeithiol yn Lloegr, a gwn y bu ymgyrchoedd tebyg yn rhyngwladol ar y mater hwn, sydd wedi bod yn hynod fuddiol. Rwy’n mawr obeithio, ar ôl cymryd rhan yn yr ymgyrch hon yng Nghymru, y byddwn yn gweld gwahaniaeth amlwg yn agweddau'r cyhoedd tuag at salwch meddwl.

 

There are other things that we can do as well as raising awareness: we have to improve access to mental health therapies and other things besides drugs, which have commonly been used as a sort of sticking plaster to address mental health problems. We have already heard today from Assembly Members that recovery is absolutely possible. I am fortunate that I have never experienced a mental health problem. I cannot really appreciate what people must have been through. However, knowing that people can get better and recover, or at least cope with their mental ill health, is a really important message and it is one that we must focus on when we talk about access to services and access to treatment within the NHS.

Mae pethau eraill y gallwn eu gwneud yn ogystal â chodi ymwybyddiaeth: rhaid inni wella mynediad i therapïau iechyd meddwl a phethau eraill ar wahân i gyffuriau, sydd wedi cael eu defnyddio yn gyffredin fel rhyw fath o ateb dros dro i broblemau iechyd meddwl. Rydym eisoes wedi clywed heddiw gan Aelodau Cynulliad fod y broses wella yn bosibl. Rwy’n ffodus nad wyf erioed wedi profi problem iechyd meddwl. Ni allaf wir werthfawrogi'r hyn y mae’n rhaid bod pobl wedi ei brofi. Fodd bynnag, mae gwybod y gall pobl wella, neu o leiaf ymdopi â'u salwch meddwl, yn neges bwysig iawn ac mae'n un y mae'n rhaid inni ganolbwyntio arni pan fyddwn yn siarad am fynediad i wasanaethau a mynediad i driniaeth o fewn y GIG.

3.00 p.m.

Finally, to touch on the really important role that carers play in this process, I meet regularly, as I know other Assembly Members do, with carers’ groups across Wales. Many individuals in those groups will be caring for someone who has experienced or is going through a period of mental ill health. It is very important that we do not lose sight of the fact that those carers are living daily with those people, trying to promote and encourage recovery as best as possible. We need to ensure that they are given every bit of support that it is possible for us to provide as a nation, to promote good, positive mental health and positive attitudes throughout Wales.

Yn olaf, i sôn yn fras am y rôl bwysig iawn y mae gofalwyr yn ei chwarae yn y broses hon, byddaf yn cwrdd yn rheolaidd, fel y gwn fod Aelodau eraill y Cynulliad yn ei wneud, â grwpiau gofalwyr ledled Cymru. Bydd llawer o unigolion yn y grwpiau hynny yn gofalu am rywun sydd wedi profi neu sydd yn profi cyfnod o salwch meddwl. Mae'n bwysig iawn nad ydym yn colli golwg ar y ffaith bod y gofalwyr hynny yn byw bob dydd gyda'r bobl hynny, yn ceisio hyrwyddo ac annog eu gwellhad gymaint ag y bo modd. Mae angen inni sicrhau eu bod yn cael pob cefnogaeth y mae’n bosibl inni ei darparu fel cenedl, i hyrwyddo iechyd meddwl cadarnhaol, da ac agweddau cadarnhaol ledled Cymru.

 

I commend the debate today, which certainly has the support of the Welsh Conservatives.

Cymeradwyaf y ddadl heddiw, sydd yn sicr yn cael cefnogaeth y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig.

Elin Jones: Diolch i’r pedwar Aelod Cynulliad am gyflwyno’r ddadl ac am adrodd yn gyhoeddus am eu profiad personol o iselder. Mae trafod iselder ymysg teulu a ffrindiau yn ddigon anodd, ac anghyffredin o bosibl, ond mae cyhoeddi a thrafod eich iselder yn gwbl gyhoeddus ac ar gyfryngau cenedlaethol yn ddewr iawn ac, fel y profwyd heddiw, yn rymus iawn.  

Elin Jones: I thank the four Assembly Members for sponsoring this debate and for their public account of their personal experiences of depression. Discussing depression with family and friends is hard enough, and possibly unusual, but announcing and discussing your depression openly in the national media is very brave and, as was proven today, very powerful.

Rwyf eisiau siarad yn y ddadl hon am salwch meddwl a’i oblygiadau i garfan benodol o bobl, gan gofio y pwynt a wnaeth Eluned Parrott mor dda yn ei chyflwyniad, sef bod pob rhan o gymdeithas yn profi salwch meddwl. Wrth imi dyfu lan, roedd fy nhad-cu yn dioddef o iselder a’i chwaer hefyd, sef fy modryb, yn dioddef o salwch meddwl. Treuliodd hi gyfnodau mewn ysbyty iechyd meddwl yng Nghaerfyrddin hyd at ddiwedd ei hoes. Yn ei 80au, ryw 20 mlynedd yn ôl, cymerodd fy nhad-cu ei fywyd ei hun, rhywbeth digon anghyffredin i ddyn o’i oedran ef. Byddai fy mam-gu wedi casáu’r ffaith fy mod ar fy nhraed heddiw yn sôn am hyn yn gyhoeddus, oherwydd roedd y profiad yn fy nheulu i siŵr o fod yn debyg iawn i brofiadau nifer o deuluoedd eraill, sef ein bod yn trafod afiechydon a gwaeledd corfforol yn ddi ben draw o fewn y teulu a chyda chydnabod, ond yn osgoi trafod gwaeledd iechyd meddwl ar bob cyfrif—yn ein teulu ein hunain, yn ogystal â chyda phobl eraill.

I want to speak in this debate about mental illness and its implications for a specific group of people, while remembering the point made so well by Eluned Parrott in her contribution, namely that all sections of society can experience mental illness. When I was growing up, my grandfather suffered from depression, and his sister, namely my aunt, also suffered from mental illness. She spent periods in a mental health hospital in Carmarthen until the end of her life. In his 80s, some 20 years ago, my grandfather took his own life, which is unusual for a man of his age. My grandmother would hate the fact that I am standing here today talking publicly about this, because the experience in my family was probably similar to that of so many other families, namely that we talked endlessly of physical ailments and illnesses within the family and with acquaintances, but avoided talking about mental illness at all costs—both within our family, and with other people.

Roedd fy nhad-cu yn ffarmwr a’r rhan fwyaf o fy nheulu estynedig yn ffermwyr, ac yn ystod fy mywyd, bu i ddau ohonynt—cefnder fy nhad a chefnder fy mam—gymryd eu bywydau eu hunain ar wahanol adegau. Roedd y ddau ohonynt yn ffermwyr, yn ddynion yn eu 30au, ac yn dadau ifanc ar y pryd, a bu i’r ddau ohonynt saethu eu hunain gyda dryllau trwyddedig. Dros y 30 mlynedd diwethaf, mae tystiolaeth wedi dangos bod achosion o hunanladdiad yn uwch na’r cyfartaledd ymysg y boblogaeth amaethyddol, yn enwedig ymysg dynion. Mae Canolfan Ymchwil Hunanladdiad Prifysgol Rhydychen wedi gwneud ymchwil benodol i mewn i hunanladdiad a ffermwyr, ac mae ei gwaith yn dangos bod salwch meddwl, amharodrwydd i chwilio am driniaeth, unigedd ac argaeledd dryll i gyd yn ffactorau yn nifer uchel yr achosion o hunanladdiad ymysg ffermwyr yng Nghymru a Lloegr. Yn yr astudiaethau hyn gan Brifysgol Rhydychen, canfuwyd fod 40% o hunanladdiadau ymysg ffermwyr gyda dryll a 30% drwy ddull crogi, sef canrannau sy’n llawer uwch nag i’r boblogaeth yn gyffredinol. Mae hunanladdiad drwy ddryll yn sydyn ac yn llawer mwy llwyddiannus, os dyna’r term cywir, neu yn fwy sydyn o farwol na dulliau eraill o hunanladdiad.

 

My grandfather was a farmer, and the vast majority of my extended family are farmers, and during my lifetime, two of them—my father’s cousin and my mother’s cousin—took their own lives at different points. Both of them were farmers, both were men in their 30s, and both were young fathers at the time, and both of them shot themselves with licensed guns. Over the past 30 years, evidence has emerged that the incidence of suicide is higher than average among the agricultural community, particularly among men. The University of Oxford Centre for Suicide Research has carried out specific research into suicide among farmers, and its work has shown that mental illness, an unwillingness to seek treatment, isolation, and the availability of a gun are all contributory factors in the high number of cases of suicide among farmers in England and Wales. In these studies by the University of Oxford, it was found that 40% of suicides among farmers were carried out using a gun and 30% by hanging, which are percentages that are far higher than for the general population. Suicide using a gun is very sudden and far more successful, if that is the right word, or more instantly fatal than other methods of attempting suicide.

Mae’r Samariaid hefyd wedi gwneud gwaith academaidd am rai o’r rhesymau pam mae cynnydd yn nifer y dynion yn eu 30au, 40au a 50au sy’n cymryd eu bywydau eu hunain.

The Samaritans have also done some academic research on someo f the reasons why there has now been an increase in the number of men in their 30s, 40s and 50s taking their own lives.

Nid wyf yma y prynhawn yma i ddweud bod angen cymryd drylliau a thrwyddedau drylliau oddi ar ffermwyr, ond rwyf yn meddwl bod eisiau i’r gwasanaeth iechyd a’r gwasanaethau sy’n rhoi cyngor yn y maes hwn ofyn, pan fydd achosion o afiechyd meddwl gan ffermwyr, neu eu teuloedd o ran hynny, am argaeledd dryll o fewn y teulu a chael sgwrs na fyddent yn ei chael gyda’r boblogaeth yn gyffredinol.

I am not here this afternoon to say that we need to take firearms and licensed guns away from farmers, but I do think that the health service and the counselling services in this area need to ask, in cases of mental illness among farmers, or farming families, for that matter, questions about the availability of a gun within the family, and to have a conversation that perhaps they would not have with the general population.

Yn bwysicach na hynny, yn ein cymunedau gwledig a’n cymunedau amaethyddol yn benodol, mae eisiau inni fod yn llawer mwy agored i drafod iselder a salwch meddwl, i ofyn am gymorth, i chwilio am driniaeth, ac i dderbyn bod salwch meddwl yn gyflwr cyffredin sydd â phob math o driniaethau modern a meddyginaethau modern ar ei gyfer, fel ar gyfer pob cyflwr meddygol arall. Rwy’n falch bod y ddadl yn cael ei chynnal y prynhawn yma, ac yn falch o gefnogi’r ymgyrch Amser i Newid.

More importantly, in our rural communities and specifically in our agricultural communities, we need to be far more open about discussing depression and mental illness, about asking for assistance, seeking treatment and accepting that mental illness is a common condition that can be treated with all kinds of modern treatments and medicines, just like any other medical condition. I am pleased that we are having this debate this afternoon, and I am proud to support the Time to Change campaign.

The Minister for Health and Social Services (Lesley Griffiths): This has been a very powerful debate, and that is due in no small measure to Eluned Parrott, Llyr Huws Gruffydd, David Melding and Ken Skates. I will refer to their contributions later. I know that Ken will be the final speaker. The effect that discrimination can have on people suffering from a mental health illness is huge and sometimes prevents them from accessing the opportunities that many of us take for granted, such as employment. The stigma can reinforce the isolation and distress that mental illness can cause. Stigma and discrimination can further lead to secrecy and unwillingness on the part of an individual to discuss problems or seek help when such problems arise, often through fear of what others may think of them. The poor portrayal of mental illness in the media that Kirsty Williams referred to, often stereotyping those with problems and providing misinformation, can lead to ungrounded fears, misunderstandings and mistrust on the part of the public. Along with the focus on high-profile but extremely rare tragedies involving people with mental health problems, that feeds the ignorance, which, in turn, leads to fear and, ultimately, to discrimination.

Y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Lesley Griffiths): Mae hon wedi bod yn ddadl bwerus iawn, ac mae hynny'n ddyledus i raddau helaeth i Eluned Parrott, Llyr Huws Gruffydd, David Melding a Ken Skates. Cyfeiriaf at eu cyfraniadau yn ddiweddarach. Gwn mai Ken fydd y siaradwr olaf. Mae’r effaith y gall gwahaniaethu ei chael ar bobl sy'n dioddef o salwch meddwl yn enfawr ac weithiau mae’n eu hatal rhag cael manteisio ar y cyfleoedd y mae llawer ohonom yn eu cymryd yn ganiataol, megis cyflogaeth. Gall y stigma atgyfnerthu'r unigedd a’r gofid y gall salwch meddwl eu hachosi. Gall stigma a gwahaniaethu arwain hefyd at gyfrinachedd ac amharodrwydd ar ran unigolyn i drafod problemau neu geisio cymorth pan fydd problemau o'r fath yn codi, yn aml am eu bod yn ofni beth y bydd pobl eraill yn ei feddwl ohonynt. Gall y portread gwael o salwch meddwl yn y cyfryngau y cyfeiriodd Kirsty Williams ato, sy’n aml yn llunio ystrydebau o’r rheini â phroblemau a darparu gwybodaeth anghywir, arwain at ofnau, camddealltwriaeth a diffyg ymddiriedaeth ar ran y cyhoedd, a hynny’n ddi-sail. Ynghyd â'r ffocws ar drychinebau proffil uchel ond eithriadol o brin yn cynnwys pobl â phroblemau iechyd meddwl, mae hynny’n bwydo anwybodaeth, sydd, yn ei dro, yn arwain at ofn ac, yn y pen draw, at wahaniaethu.

 

The truth is that people suffering with a mental illness are actually significantly more likely to be a victim of crime than the perpetrator. Too often, the media fails to cover those instances. This misunderstanding perpetuates the discrimination against people experiencing mental health problems, resulting in reduced access to work, education, housing and leisure opportunities. Indeed, it is in our most impoverished communities that people experience the worst mental health, and yet, as individuals and communities, they may be prevented from emerging from this deprivation due to discrimination. If we are to tackle these inequalities, we must challenge the stigma and discrimination directed at some of the most powerless and vulnerable members of our society.

Y gwir yw bod pobl sy'n dioddef salwch meddwl mewn gwirionedd yn llawer mwy tebygol o fod yn ddioddefwr trosedd na’r troseddwr. Yn rhy aml, nid yw’r cyfryngau yn rhoi sylw i’r achosion hynny. Mae’r gamddealltwriaeth hon yn bytholi’r gwahaniaethu yn erbyn pobl sy'n dioddef problemau iechyd meddwl, gan arwain at lai o fynediad i waith, cyfleoedd addysg, tai a hamdden. Yn wir, yn ein cymunedau tlotaf y mae pobl yn profi'r iechyd meddwl gwaethaf, ac eto, fel unigolion a chymunedau, efallai y byddant yn cael eu hatal rhag codi o’r amddifadedd hwn oherwydd gwahaniaethu. Er mwyn mynd i’r afael â’r anghydraddoldebau hyn, rhaid inni herio'r stigma a'r gwahaniaethu sydd wedi’i gyfeirio at rai o'r aelodau mwyaf diymadferth ac agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas.

 

We also need to work in our schools and workplaces to transform public attitudes and behaviours in response to mental ill health. This is why the national Time to Change Wales campaign, to which so many Members referred, is vital. This three-year programme, funded by the Big Lottery fund, Comic Relief and the Welsh Government, aims to end the stigma and discrimination faced by people who experience mental health issues. It is delivered by leading Welsh mental health charities, Gofal, Hafal and Mind Cymru. This is a great example of partnership working. Not only do I reiterate my support for this campaign, but I also publicly acknowledge the hard work being done by these organisations and other third sector partners in driving forward this important agenda.

Mae angen inni hefyd weithio yn ein hysgolion a’n gweithleoedd i drawsnewid agweddau ac ymddygiad y cyhoedd mewn ymateb i salwch meddwl. Dyma pam mae ymgyrch Amser i Newid Cymru, y cyfeiriodd cynifer o Aelodau ati, yn hanfodol. Diben y rhaglen tair blynedd hon, a ariennir gan y Gronfa Loteri Fawr, Comic Relief a Llywodraeth Cymru, yw rhoi terfyn ar y stigma a'r gwahaniaethu a wynebir gan bobl sy'n profi problemau iechyd meddwl. Caiff ei chyflwyno gan brif elusennau iechyd meddwl Cymru, sef Gofal, Hafal a Mind Cymru. Mae hon yn enghraifft wych o weithio mewn partneriaeth. Rwyf nid yn unig yn ategu fy nghefnogaeth i’r ymgyrch hon, ond rwyf hefyd yn cydnabod yn gyhoeddus y gwaith caled sy'n cael ei wneud gan y sefydliadau hyn a phartneriaid trydydd sector eraill wrth lywio’r agenda bwysig hon.

 

As you will be aware, I recently launched 'Together for Mental Health’, our new age-inclusive, cross-governmental strategy for mental health and wellbeing. It recognises that a quarter of us will experience mental health problems or illness at some point and that that will have an enormous effect on our families, friends and colleagues. A principal objective of the strategy is to reduce the inequalities suffered by people experiencing mental ill health. 'Together for Mental Health’ is supported by a three-year delivery plan. This initial three-year plan addresses key priorities for mental health, and I am pleased to say that it includes key actions to reduce stigma and discrimination. Local health boards and local authorities will be required to ensure that staff receive mental health awareness training, to which Llyr referred, and the National Centre for Mental Health will work with stakeholders to produce high-quality information for the general public, service users, carers and service providers.

Fel y gwyddoch, yn ddiweddar gwneuthum lansio 'Gyda'n Gilydd ar gyfer Iechyd Meddwl', ein strategaeth newydd sy’n oedran-gynhwysol ac yn draws-lywodraethol ar gyfer iechyd meddwl a lles. Mae'n cydnabod y bydd chwarter ohonom yn profi problemau iechyd meddwl neu salwch meddwl ar ryw adeg ac y bydd hyn yn cael effaith enfawr ar ein teuluoedd, ffrindiau a chydweithwyr. Un o brif amcanion y strategaeth yw lleihau'r anghydraddoldebau a ddioddefir gan bobl sy'n profi salwch meddwl. Ategir 'Gyda'n Gilydd ar gyfer Iechyd Meddwl' gan gynllun cyflenwi tair blynedd. Mae’r cynllun tair blynedd cychwynnol hwn yn mynd i’r afael â blaenoriaethau allweddol ar gyfer iechyd meddwl, ac rwy’n falch o ddweud ei fod yn cynnwys camau allweddol i leihau stigma a gwahaniaethu. Bydd yn ofynnol i fyrddau iechyd lleol ac awdurdodau lleol sicrhau bod staff yn derbyn hyfforddiant ymwybyddiaeth o iechyd meddwl, y cyfeiriodd Llyr ato, a bydd y Ganolfan Genedlaethol ar gyfer Iechyd Meddwl yn gweithio gyda rhanddeiliaid i baratoi gwybodaeth o safon uchel ar gyfer y cyhoedd, defnyddwyr gwasanaethau, gofalwyr a darparwyr gwasanaethau.

 

LHBs and local authorities will have new Time to Change champions to raise the profile of mental health, and progress will be measured through regular surveys of attitudes. Our commitment to mental health first aid remains, offering people the training that they need to recognise the signs and symptoms of mental ill health. Key partners such as the ambulance service, the Welsh police service, the prison service, Jobcentre Plus and those working in primary health care, social care and further and higher education are among the many who have benefited from its increased availability. We now have more than 10,000 people trained in mental health first aid—a significant achievement, I am sure everyone will agree. We continue to work with our third sector partners and, importantly, to listen to service users and carers to address this most pressing of issues. Going forward, it is important on an individual level that we enable people to realise their potential and enjoy full citizenship and, on a community level, that we tackle poverty and inequality from mental health. On a societal level, if we are truly to have an inclusive Wales, we need to ensure that we are providing opportunities for all.

Bydd gan Fyrddau Iechyd Lleol ac awdurdodau lleol hyrwyddwyr Amser i Newid newydd i godi proffil iechyd meddwl, a chaiff cynnydd ei fesur drwy arolygon rheolaidd o agweddau. Mae ein hymrwymiad i gymorth cyntaf iechyd meddwl yn parhau, gan gynnig yr hyfforddiant sydd ei angen i adnabod arwyddion a symptomau salwch meddwl. Mae partneriaid allweddol fel y gwasanaeth ambiwlans, gwasanaeth heddlu Cymru, y gwasanaeth carchardai, y Ganolfan Byd Gwaith a'r rhai sy'n gweithio ym maes gofal iechyd sylfaenol, gofal cymdeithasol ac addysg bellach ac uwch ymhlith y nifer sydd wedi elwa o'i argaeledd cynyddol. Erbyn hyn mae gennym fwy na 10,000 o bobl wedi'u hyfforddi mewn cymorth cyntaf iechyd meddwl—cyflawniad arwyddocaol, rwy’n siŵr y bydd pawb yn cytuno. Rydym yn parhau i weithio gyda'n partneriaid yn y trydydd sector ac, yn bwysig, gwrando ar ddefnyddwyr gwasanaethau a gofalwyr er mwyn mynd i'r afael â'r mater hynod bwysig hwn. Gan symud ymlaen, mae'n bwysig ar lefel unigol ein bod yn galluogi pobl i wireddu eu potensial a mwynhau dinasyddiaeth lawn ac, ar lefel gymunedol, ein bod yn mynd i'r afael â thlodi ac anghydraddoldeb o iechyd meddwl. Ar lefel gymdeithasol, er mwyn cael Cymru wirioneddol gynhwysol, mae angen inni sicrhau ein bod yn darparu cyfleoedd i bawb.

 

I thank all Members for their contributions, but I would like to refer to the contributions of Eluned, David and Llyr. Eluned spoke very poignantly about post-natal depression and the pain of mental health illness. I think that what she said about the lack of photographs from the first four months of her child’s life really made us sit up and think. Eluned also talked about the empathy that it has given her. I started my working life many years ago in what was then called a psychiatric unit, and it certainly gave me empathy, which I hope that I have taken throughout my adult life and into my current position.

Diolchaf i'r holl Aelodau am eu cyfraniadau, ond hoffwn gyfeirio at gyfraniadau Eluned, David a Llyr. Siaradodd Eluned yn ingol iawn am iselder ôl-enedigol a'r boen sy’n gysylltiedig â salwch meddwl. Credaf fod yr hyn a ddywedodd am y ffaith nad oedd ganddi ffotograffau o bedwar mis cyntaf bywyd ei phlentyn wedi peri inni feddwl o ddifrif. Soniodd Eluned hefyd am yr empathi y mae wedi’i roi iddi. Dechreuais fy mywyd gwaith flynyddoedd lawer yn ôl mewn uned a elwid yn uned seiciatrig, ac yn sicr rhoddodd imi empathi, ac rwy’n gobeithio fy mod wedi mabwysiadu’r empathi hwnnw drwy gydol fy mywyd fel oedolyn ac i mewn i’m swydd bresennol.

 

David, I am sure that you will not be surprised to hear that I am one of the three out of four people in Wales who think that the Welsh Conservatives should not hold public office. [Laughter.] However, it is very wrong that people think that you should not hold public office owing to mental health issues. You talked about people suffering in silence, which also made us all sit up. It does not surprise me in the least to learn that you—and, I am sure, Eluned, Llyr and Ken—have received many messages of support today.

David, rwy’n siŵr na fyddwch yn synnu i glywed fy mod yn un o'r tri o bob pedwar person yng Nghymru sy'n credu na ddylai'r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig ddal swydd gyhoeddus. [Chwerthin.] Fodd bynnag, mae'n gwbl anghywir bod pobl yn meddwl na ddylech ddal swydd gyhoeddus oherwydd problemau iechyd meddwl. Gwnaethoch siarad am bobl sy'n dioddef yn dawel, a wnaeth hefyd beri inni feddwl. Nid yw'n syndod imi o gwbl ddysgu eich bod chi—ac Eluned, Llyr a Ken rwy’n siŵr—wedi derbyn sawl neges o gefnogaeth heddiw.

 

Llyr, I think that you made a very important point in that, just like a great deal of illnesses that we all suffer, you can recover from mental health illness. That is a very important message to take out there. You talked about ensuring that NHS staff pick up on signs of mental health illness, and I referred to that earlier in my speech. On the point that you made about the Olympic legacy, we should make sure that we carry that feeling of wellbeing through. That is why I am pleased that 'Together for Mental Health’ focuses on wellbeing for the first time in a strategy.

Llyr, credaf ichi wneud pwynt pwysig iawn sef, yn union fel sawl math o salwch yr ydym i gyd yn dioddef ohonynt, gallwch wella ar ôl salwch meddwl. Mae honno'n neges bwysig iawn i’w chyfleu. Gwnaethoch sôn am sicrhau bod staff y GIG yn sylwi ar arwyddion o salwch meddwl, a chyfeiriais innau at hynny'n gynharach yn fy araith. O ran y pwynt a wnaethoch am etifeddiaeth y Gemau Olympaidd, dylem wneud yn siŵr bod y teimlad hwnnw o les yn parhau. Dyna pam fy mod yn falch bod 'Gyda'n Gilydd ar gyfer Iechyd Meddwl' yn canolbwyntio ar les am y tro cyntaf mewn strategaeth.

 

Ultimately, we all have some responsibility to support our friends, family and colleagues when they are in need, and to talk candidly and openly. Sometimes, that can be very difficult to do, on both sides. I am very proud to see the Assembly leading by example. I again place on record my personal thanks to those Members from all parties who are taking this step and talking about their own experiences.

Yn y pen draw, gan bob un ohonom rywfaint o gyfrifoldeb i gefnogi ein ffrindiau, teulu a chydweithwyr pan fyddant mewn angen, ac i siarad yn onest ac yn agored. Weithiau, gall hynny fod yn anodd iawn i'w wneud, ar y naill ochr a’r llall. Rwy’n falch iawn o weld y Cynulliad yn arwain drwy esiampl. Unwaith eto hoffwn gofnodi fy niolch personol i'r Aelodau hynny o bob plaid sydd yn cymryd y cam hwn ac yn siarad am eu profiadau eu hunain.

 

Finally, in order to have a flourishing and prosperous Wales, it is important that we draw on all resources in Wales. To exclude people on the basis of mental health issues is, in my opinion, to lose a very precious resource.

I gloi, er ​​mwyn cael Cymru ffyniannus a llewyrchus, mae'n bwysig ein bod yn defnyddio pob adnodd yng Nghymru. Byddai eithrio pobl ar sail problemau iechyd meddwl, yn fy marn i, yn golygu colli adnodd gwerthfawr iawn.

 

Kenneth Skates: I feel honoured and somewhat liberated to be able to participate in this debate today. It is not a conventional debate in any way, and is more of a challenge. It has been a challenge for many Members, it lays out a challenge for the Government, but above all, it sets out a challenge for society. We all share the responsibility to end prejudice and stigma, and I applaud those Members who have made such positive efforts in this regard today.

Kenneth Skates: Mae’n fraint ac yn rhyddhad imi, i raddau, allu cymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon heddiw. Nid yw'n ddadl gonfensiynol o gwbl, ac mae’n fwy o her. Mae wedi bod yn her i sawl Aelod, mae'n amlinellu her i'r Llywodraeth, ond yn annad dim, mae'n nodi her i gymdeithas. Rydym i gyd yn rhannu'r cyfrifoldeb i roi terfyn ar ragfarn a stigma, a chymeradwyaf yr Aelodau hynny sydd wedi gwneud ymdrechion mor gadarnhaol yn hyn o beth heddiw.

 

Our minds are like complicated jigsaws and, if you shake them, sometimes the pieces can fall out of place. Sometimes, without help, the pieces do not go back as they should do, and that is when mental illness can occur. For me, the jigsaw pieces of my mind fell out of shape when I went from a very close-knit, rural, family environment to university, to Cambridge, to an environment that was completely alien to me and for which I was entirely unprepared. Looking back, after some time, I realised that I felt like part of the naive proletariat in the land of the confident bourgeoisie. The colour of my tie today, by the way, is purely coincidental. My blog piece explains how, as a result of that unsafe transition from childhood to adulthood, from being a part of a family to being independent, I developed generalised anxiety disorder, the same condition and illness that David Melding has written about. I concur fully with his account of how it affects you.

Mae ein meddyliau yn debyg i jig-sos cymhleth ac, os ydych yn eu hysgwyd, weithiau gall y darnau ddisgyn o’u lle. Weithiau, heb help, nid yw'r darnau yn mynd yn ôl fel y dylent ei wneud, a dyna pryd y gall salwch meddwl ddigwydd. I mi, disgynnodd darnau jig-so fy meddwl allan o’u lle pan symudais o amgylchedd teuluol, gwledig, agos i'r brifysgol, i Gaergrawnt, i amgylchedd a oedd yn gwbl ddieithr imi ac nad oeddwn yn barod ar ei gyfer o gwbl. Wrth edrych yn ôl, ar ôl peth amser, sylweddolais fy mod yn teimlo fel rhan o'r werin naïf yn nhir y bourgeoisie hyderus. Mae lliw fy nhei heddiw, gyda llaw, yn gyd-ddigwyddiad llwyr. Mae fy mlog yn esbonio sut, o ganlyniad i'r trawsnewid anniogel hwnnw o blentyndod i fod yn oedolyn, o fod yn rhan o deulu i fod yn annibynnol, y datblygais anhwylder gorbryder cyffredinol, yr un cyflwr a salwch ag y mae David Melding wedi ysgrifennu amdano. Cytunaf yn llwyr â’i gyfrif ef am y ffordd y mae'n effeithio arnoch chi.

 

It was once said that we read so that we know that we are not alone. I would encourage anyone who is suffering from any form of mental illness to read the blogs, but also to read accounts from other people who may not be politicians. Indeed, that includes celebrities and people who have influence, but also people in our communities, in every community. You will draw comfort from it and you will draw strength.

Dywedwyd unwaith ein bod yn darllen fel ein bod yn gwybod nad ydym ar ein pen ein hunain. Byddwn yn annog unrhyw un sy'n dioddef o unrhyw fath o salwch meddwl i ddarllen y blogiau, ond hefyd i ddarllen cyfrifon gan bobl eraill nad ydynt efallai yn wleidyddion. Yn wir, mae hynny’n cynnwys enwogion a phobl ddylanwadol, ond hefyd pobl yn ein cymunedau, ym mhob cymuned. Byddant yn eich cysuro ac yn eich gwneud yn gryfach.

3.15 p.m.

For me, one of the problems was that my doctor at home in north Wales refused to accept that, at the age of 19, I could possibly be anxious or depressed, and so I am afraid that treatment was not forthcoming. After I left university, my illness followed me, and it came to a point where I was absolutely terrified that the only way to end the illness would be to end life, which, tragically, was a course of action that too many people I had seen at university and at home had taken. I was desperate to avoid it, and it was at that point that I sought help from a clinical psychologist, someone who, over the course of the following three years, would become just as important to me and instrumental in my life as my closest friends and my family. Through talking therapy, there is no doubt that he put pieces of my mind back together again, not as they once were, but as they should always have been.

I mi, un o'r problemau oedd bod fy meddyg gartref yn y gogledd wedi gwrthod derbyn, yn 19 oed, y gallwn fod yn bryderus neu'n isel fy ysbryd, ac felly mae arnaf ofn na chefais y driniaeth briodol. Ar ôl imi adael y brifysgol, dilynodd fy salwch fi, a chyrhaeddais y pwynt lle yr oeddwn wedi dychryn yn llwyr mai’r unig ffordd o roi terfyn ar y salwch fyddai drwy roi terfyn ar fy mywyd, sydd, yn drychinebus, yn weithred y gwelais ormod o bobl yn y brifysgol a gartref yn ei chyflawni. Roeddwn mor awyddus i'w osgoi, ac ar y pwynt hwnnw y ceisiais help gan seicolegydd clinigol, rhywun a fyddai, yn ystod y tair blynedd ganlynol, yn dod yr un mor bwysig i mi ac allweddol yn fy mywyd â’m ffrindiau agosaf a’m teulu. Drwy therapi siarad, nid oes amheuaeth iddo roi darnau fy meddwl yn ôl at ei gilydd unwaith eto, nid fel yr arferent fod, ond fel y dylent bob amser fod wedi bod.

 

My first point to anybody reading, watching or listening today is that if you look for help and if you choose therapy, it may take time, but you will overcome your illness, and what will happen is that you will take the strongest parts of your character and you will shape them into a happier, more resilient and more rounded person. You will never go back to what you may once have been; you will only go forward as a newer, stronger person. While I first thought that seeking help was an admission of weakness, I came to realise that it was the first and most crucial step to a new beginning. Therefore, you should never ever believe that seeking help is a weakness. The willingness to open oneself up, at the most vulnerable time of your life, not only to a stranger but to your fiercest critic, namely yourself, is not a weakness or something that you should be ashamed of. It is a strength and it requires enormous courage. Self-awareness is not a weakness, but arrogance is, and seldom do the two go hand in hand. Through therapy and counselling, you will also learn to embrace your vulnerabilities as part of your character, for these define us as much as our strengths. In most cases, they are what endear us to others. Think of J.K. Rowling, Stephen Fry, Winston Churchill, Tolstoy, Keats, Dickens, Florence Nightingale and Abraham Lincoln; these are all people whom we admire because they had to overcome tremendous challenges to achieve wonderful things. We all respect people with battle scars, and these are what our heroes wear without shame.

Fy mhwynt cyntaf i unrhyw un sy’n darllen, gwylio neu wrando heddiw yw os ydych yn chwilio am help, ac os byddwch yn dewis therapi, gall gymryd amser, ond byddwch yn goresgyn eich salwch, a beth fydd yn digwydd yw y byddwch yn cymryd y rhannau cryfaf o'ch cymeriad ac yn eu defnyddio i greu person hapusach, mwy gwydn a mwy crwn. Ni fyddwch byth yn mynd yn ôl i fod fel yr oeddech; dim ond symud ymlaen fel person mwy newydd a chryf. Er fy mod yn credu ar y cychwyn bod ceisio cymorth yn cyfaddef gwendid, sylweddolais mai hwnnw oedd y cam cyntaf a mwyaf allweddol i ddechrau newydd. Felly, ni ddylech byth gredu bod ceisio help yn wendid. Nid yw parodrwydd i fod yn agored, ar yr adeg pan fyddwch fwyaf agored i niwed, nid yn unig i ddieithryn, ond i’ch beirniad ffyrnicaf, sef chi eich hun, yn wendid neu’n rhywbeth y dylech deimlo cywilydd ohono. Mae'n gryfder ac mae'n gofyn am ddewrder enfawr. Nid yw hunanymwybyddiaeth yn wendid, ond mae haerllugrwydd, a phur anaml y bydd y ddau beth yn mynd law yn llaw. Drwy therapi a chwnsela, byddwch hefyd yn dysgu sut i dderbyn y ffaith eich bod yn agored i niwed fel rhan o'ch cymeriad, gan fod y rhain yn ein diffinio gymaint â’n cryfderau. Yn y rhan fwyaf o achosion, dyma sy’n ein hanwylo ni at bobl eraill. Meddyliwch am JK Rowling, Stephen Fry, Winston Churchill, Tolstoy, Keats, Dickens, Florence Nightingale ac Abraham Lincoln; mae'r rhain oll yn bobl yr ydym yn eu hedmygu am iddynt orfod goresgyn heriau aruthrol i gyflawni pethau gwych. Rydym oll yn parchu pobl sydd â chreithiau’r frwydr, a dyma a arddangosir gan ein harwyr heb gywilydd.

 

The experience of mental illness, without a doubt, shaped me, and it made me realise that the single most important purpose of government is to help people, communities and institutions through transitions, to help build safe bridges from what has been to what can and should be. This is a simple narrative, but, unfortunately, we often lose sight of it. If we look at each of the biggest transitional challenges that we all face in life, we find that those most likely to struggle and, therefore, those most likely to suffer from mental illness are the poorest, the most isolated, the least powerful and the most excluded: the poor, the elderly, children, the disabled, care-leavers, members of black and minority ethnic and lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender communities, young single mums, ex-offenders, isolated people in rural communities, personnel leaving the armed forces, and, as shown by a recent Samaritans report, middle-aged men living in our most deprived communities. These are the people most often ignored by the western political economy, but for whom government exists and must prioritise help.

Mae'r profiad o salwch meddwl, yn ddiau, wedi fy llywio, ac wedi peri imi sylweddoli mai pwrpas pwysicaf y llywodraeth yw helpu pobl, cymunedau a sefydliadau drwy gyfnodau o newid, er mwyn helpu i adeiladu pontydd diogel rhwng yr hyn a fu a’r hyn a all fod ac a ddylai fod. Mae hyn yn naratif syml, ond, yn anffodus, rydym yn aml yn colli golwg ohono. Os edrychwn ar bob un o'r heriau mwyaf trosiannol a wynebwn ni oll mewn bywyd, gwelwn mai’r rhai mwyaf tebygol o gael trafferth ac, felly, y rhai sydd fwyaf tebygol o ddioddef o salwch meddwl yw’r bobl dlotaf, fwyaf ynysig, y lleiaf pwerus a'r rheini sydd wedi’u hallgáu fwyaf: y tlawd, yr henoed, plant, yr anabl, pobl sy'n gadael gofal, aelodau o gymunedau o bobl dduon a lleiafrifoedd ethnig a phobl lesbiaid, hoyw, deurywiol a thrawsrywiol, mamau sengl ifanc, cyn-droseddwyr, pobl ynysig mewn cymunedau gwledig, personél sy'n gadael y lluoedd arfog, ac, fel y dangosir yn adroddiad diweddar y Samariaid, dynion canol oed sy'n byw yn ein cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig. Dyma’r bobl a gaiff eu hanwybyddu amlaf gan economi wleidyddol y gorllewin, ond y mae’r llywodraeth yn bodoli ar eu cyfer ac mae'n rhaid blaenoriaethu help ar eu cyfer.

 

My experience shaped my politics, it renewed me and it strengthened me, yet a quarter of people outside the Chamber still think that I should not serve them because of that experience. To them, I say: open your eyes and open your mind. To anyone suffering from mental illness, I urge you to seek help, not to be ashamed, to know that with the right treatment, be that therapy, drugs or a combination of the two, you will stop enduring life and, instead, you will enjoy life.

Llywiodd fy mhrofiad i fy ngwleidyddiaeth i, gwnaeth fy adnewyddu i a’m cryfhau, ond eto mae chwarter y bobl y tu allan i'r Siambr yn dal i feddwl na ddylwn eu gwasanaethu oherwydd y profiad hwnnw. Iddynt hwy, dywedaf: agorwch eich llygaid ac agorwch eich meddwl. I unrhyw un sy'n dioddef o salwch meddwl, fe’ch anogaf i geisio cymorth, ac i beidio â theimlo cywilydd, i wybod gyda'r driniaeth gywir, boed hynny’n therapi, cyffuriau neu gyfuniad o'r ddau, y byddwch yn rhoi'r gorau i oddef bywyd ac, yn hytrach, y byddwch yn mwynhau bywyd.

 

Finally, I thank the organisers of the Time to Change campaign not just for the enormous effort that they have put into it, but for their incredible support for Members over the weeks and months that have preceded this debate. Our work will go on, it will go on tomorrow and in the weeks, months and years to come, but, today, I hope that we have demonstrated to hundreds of thousands of people across Wales who have suffered, do suffer or may suffer from mental illness that we are not just with you, we are you. [Applause.]

I gloi, hoffwn ddiolch i drefnwyr ymgyrch Amser i Newid, nid yn unig am eu hymdrech enfawr, ond am eu cefnogaeth anhygoel i Aelodau dros yr wythnosau a'r misoedd sydd wedi rhagflaenu’r ddadl hon. Bydd ein gwaith yn parhau, bydd yn parhau yfory a thros yr wythnosau, y misoedd a'r blynyddoedd i ddod, ond, heddiw, gobeithiaf ein bod wedi dangos i gannoedd ar filoedd o bobl ledled Cymru sydd wedi dioddef, sydd yn dioddef neu a all ddioddef o salwch meddwl, nid yn unig ein bod gyda chi, ond ein bod fel chi. [Cymeradwyaeth.]

The Presiding Officer: The proposal is to agree the motion. Is there any objection? I see that there is not. Therefore, the motion is agreed, in accordance with Standing Order No. 12.36.

Y Llywydd: Y cynnig yw cytuno ar y cynnig. A oes gwrthwynebiad? Gwelaf nad oes. Mae’r cynnig, felly, wedi’i dderbyn, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion agreed.

The Presiding Officer: I am sure that all Members would agree with me that it has been an absolute privilege to be a part of this debate today. Thank you very much indeed. We now move on to what I am sure will be another excellent debate.  

Y Llywydd: Rwy’n siŵr y byddai pob Aelod yn cytuno â mi ei bod wedi bod yn fraint bod yn rhan o'r ddadl hon heddiw. Diolch yn fawr iawn yn wir. Symudwn ymlaen yn awr at yr hyn yr wyf yn sicr fydd yn ddadl ardderchog arall.

Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig
Welsh Conservatives Debate

Rheoli Grantiau
Grants Management

The Record

The Presiding Officer: I have selected amendment 1 in the name of Jane Hutt, and amendments 2 and 3 in the name of Aled Roberts.

Y Llywydd: Rwyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 yn enw Jane Hutt, a gwelliannau 2 a 3 yn enw Aled Roberts.

Cynnig NDM5105 William Graham

Motion NDM5105 William Graham

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Yn gresynu wrth fethiannau hirdymor Llywodraeth Cymru mewn perthynas â rheoli grantiau yng Nghymru.

1. Regrets the long-standing failures of the Welsh Government in relation to grants management in Wales.

2. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:

2. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) cyhoeddi datganiadau rheolaidd yn amlinellu’r camau a gymerir i reoli grantiau yn well yng Nghymru; a

a) issue regular statements outlining actions taken to improve grants management in Wales; and

b) gweithredu mesurau sy’n gwella’r tryloywder sydd ynghlwm wrth wario arian cyhoeddus.

b) implement measures which enhances transparency associated with the spending of public money.

Paul Davies: I am pleased to move the motion tabled in the name of William Graham on behalf of the Welsh Conservatives.

Paul Davies: Rwy’n falch o gynnig y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn enw William Graham ar ran y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig.

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (David Melding) i’r Gadair am 3.20 p.m.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Melding) took the Chair at 3.20 p.m.

The Record

It will be no surprise that we will be opposing amendment 1, tabled in the name of Jane Hutt. However, we will be supporting the other amendments, tabled in the name of Aled Roberts on behalf of the Welsh Liberal Democrats.

Ni fydd yn syndod y byddwn yn gwrthwynebu gwelliant 1, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Jane Hutt. Fodd bynnag, byddwn yn cefnogi’r gwelliannau eraill, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Aled Roberts ar ran Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru.

 

We have tabled this debate in order to highlight the importance of managing public finances effectively. One of the main responsibilities of any Government is to manage public funds successfully. It is absolutely crucial that hard-earned taxpayers’ money is spent effectively and wisely. Ensuring value for money is vital, especially in the difficult financial circumstances in which we find ourselves today. It is therefore imperative that robust processes are in place to achieve the objective that we all want to see, which is effective delivery for the people of Wales. This debate is not just about us on this side of the Chamber tabling a debate to criticise the Welsh Government. More importantly, it is about ensuring that public funds are managed and spent efficiently in order to improve real outcomes for the people of Wales.

Rydym wedi cyflwyno’r ddadl hon er mwyn tynnu sylw at bwysigrwydd rheoli arian cyhoeddus yn effeithiol. Un o brif gyfrifoldebau unrhyw Lywodraeth yw rheoli arian cyhoeddus yn llwyddiannus. Mae’n gwbl hanfodol bod arian haeddiannol trethdalwyr yn cael ei wario’n effeithiol ac yn ddoeth. Mae sicrhau gwerth am arian yn hollbwysig, yn enwedig yn yr amgylchiadau ariannol anodd yr ydym ynddynt heddiw. Felly, mae’n hanfodol bod prosesau cadarn ar waith i gyflawni’r nod yr ydym i gyd am ei weld, sef darpariaeth effeithiol ar gyfer pobl Cymru. Nid oes a wnelo’r ddadl â ni ar yr ochr hon i’r Siambr yn cyflwyno dadl i feirniadu Llywodraeth Cymru yn unig. Yn bwysicach na hynny, mae a wnelo â sicrhau bod arian cyhoeddus yn cael ei reoli a’i wario’n effeithlon er mwyn gwella canlyniadau gwirioneddol i bobl Cymru.

 

I fully accept that Government Ministers cannot be responsible for every single penny attached to every single project. However, they must ensure that there are sufficient and robust processes in place, which are transparent and clear, so that they can monitor funds effectively. I would certainly not expect Ministers to micromanage, but I am sure that we would all agree that we would expect them to establish procedures where they are accountable for the money that is spent. As well as the Government, public bodies have a moral imperative to act in a manner that ensures the best possible value for money, as does any organisation in receipt of public money via grants. The economic difficulties facing Wales and the UK highlight the immense importance of this. However, the inappropriate use of public funds at the All Wales Ethnic Minority Association, for example, highlights the levels of public money that can be spent inappropriately here in Wales.

Derbyniaf yn llwyr na all Gweinidogion y Llywodraeth fod yn gyfrifol am bob ceiniog sydd ynghlwm wrth bob prosiect unigol. Fodd bynnag, rhaid iddynt sicrhau bod prosesau digonol a chadarn yn eu lle, sy’n dryloyw ac yn glir, fel y gallant fonitro cronfeydd yn effeithiol. Yn sicr ni fyddwn yn disgwyl i Weinidogion feicro-reoli, ond rwy’n siŵr y byddem i gyd yn cytuno y byddem yn disgwyl iddynt sefydlu gweithdrefnau lle maent yn atebol am yr arian sy’n cael ei wario. Yn ogystal â’r Llywodraeth, mae rheidrwydd moesol ar gyrff cyhoeddus i weithredu mewn modd sy’n sicrhau’r gwerth gorau posibl am arian, fel y gwna unrhyw sefydliad sy’n derbyn arian cyhoeddus drwy grantiau. Mae’r anawsterau economaidd sy’n wynebu Cymru a’r DU yn tynnu sylw at ba mor bwysig yw hyn. Fodd bynnag, mae’r defnydd amhriodol o arian cyhoeddus yng Nghymdeithas Lleiafrifoedd Ethnig Cymru Gyfan, er enghraifft, yn tynnu sylw at yr arian cyhoeddus y gellir ei wario yn amhriodol yma yng Nghymru.

 

Naturally, financial discipline should be central to public service, and an end must be put to wasteful spending at all levels of government. Effective leadership, a cost-conscious culture, professionalism and expert central functions have been highlighted by the Treasury as four enablers for improving financial management. I believe that these core ideals should be central to the spending of all public funds. It is the Welsh Government’s responsibility to instil these ideals into public bodies and organisations. The Welsh Government must show leadership on this issue.

Yn naturiol, dylai disgyblaeth ariannol fod yn ganolog i wasanaeth cyhoeddus, a rhaid rhoi terfyn ar wariant gwastraffus ar bob lefel o lywodraeth. Amlygwyd arweinyddiaeth effeithiol, diwylliant sy’n ymwybodol o gostau, proffesiynoldeb a swyddogaethau canolog arbenigol gan y Trysorlys fel pedwar galluogydd i wella rheolaeth ariannol. Credaf y dylai’r delfrydau craidd hyn fod yn ganolog i wariant arian cyhoeddus i gyd. Cyfrifoldeb Llywodraeth Cymru yw meithrin y delfrydau hyn mewn cyrff cyhoeddus a sefydliadau. Rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru ddangos arweinyddiaeth ar y mater hwn.

 

Last year, the Wales Audit Office report 'Grants Management in Wales’ highlighted 18 reports that demonstrated poor grants management by the Welsh Government. That tally extends to 19 when you add the later report on AWEMA. Sadly, the Welsh Government has presided over more than a decade’s worth of bad management when it comes to grant funding. Clearly, there has been a complete lack of lessons learned, given that there have been so many critical Wales Audit Office reports. Do not take my word for it; the press release accompanying the 'Grants Management in Wales’ report states that

Y llynedd, cyfeiriodd adroddiad Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru 'Rheoli Grantiau yng Nghymru’ at 18 o adroddiadau a oedd yn dangos rheolaeth wael o grantiau gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Mae’r ffigur hwnnw yn cynyddu i 19 pan ychwanegwch yr adroddiad diweddarach ar AWEMA. Yn anffodus, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi llywyddu dros fwy na degawd o reolaeth wael o ran arian grant. Yn amlwg, ni ddysgwyd unrhyw wersi, o ystyried y bu cymaint o adroddiadau beirniadol gan Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru. Peidiwch â chymryd fy ngair i am hynny; mae’r datganiad i’r wasg sy’n cyd-fynd â’r adroddiad 'Rheoli Grantiau yng Nghymru’ yn nodi

  

'Wales uses grants more extensively than the rest of the UK and many grants schemes are overly complex, with both funders and recipients rarely learning lessons from problems which have arisen with past schemes’.

bod Cymru’n defnyddio grantiau yn fwy helaeth na gweddill y DU a bod llawer o gynlluniau grantiau yn rhy gymhleth o lawer, ac anaml y mae arianwyr a derbynwyr yn dysgu gwersi o broblemau sydd wedi codi gyda chynlluniau yn y gorffennol.

 

These reports allow us to track unsuccessful governance by successive Welsh Labour Governments or, indeed, Labour-led Governments since the Assembly’s inception. Over £2 billion is spent annually by public bodies in Wales through grant